Laughing Through The Pain: Navigating Wellness

Speak Like a Boss: Conquering Communication Challenges with Simone Tai

• Richard & Andy • Season 1 • Episode 36

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Unlock the secrets to effective communication with our guest, Simone Tai, a seasoned speaking coach. We promise that by listening, you'll gain invaluable strategies to enhance your speaking skills, whether you're addressing a packed auditorium or a virtual meeting. Simone guides us through the essential elements of active listening and clear communication, helping you sidestep misunderstandings and improve your professional interactions.

We dive into tackling public speaking fears, exploring the anxiety that often accompanies stepping up to the podium. Discover why storytelling trumps data dumping and how focusing on your audience can transform a nerve-wracking monologue into an engaging dialogue. With personal anecdotes and expert advice, Simone sheds light on overcoming past traumas, like bullying, that may have shaped your speaking fears. Learn to question these narratives and find confidence in your voice.

We also highlight the unique hurdles of virtual communication and the art of dealing with criticism. From my personal journey of conquering imposter syndrome to creating the "Speak Like a Boss with Heart" program, you'll hear about blending mindset tools with speaking skills for TED-style authenticity. Whether facing criticism or seeking to reduce those pesky filler words, this episode is packed with insights on building self-trust and connecting with your audience on multiple levels. Join us for a compelling exploration of communication that promises to leave you inspired and empowered.

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Andy Esam
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Laughing Through The Pain: Navigating Wellness
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Speaker 1:

People need to speak better, don't they? Andy?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely they do. I think that goes for everyone. By the sounds of it, even people you aspire to speak like, it sounds like even they make some common mistakes. So who have we got to help us with that?

Speaker 1:

on today's episode, we have Simone Tai. She is a speaking coach. Isn't that just what you need if you've got a speaking problem?

Speaker 2:

when I found that out, I did. I was a bit nervous about um my own uh speech throughout the episode, but she did. She was very complimentary about us but she did also say she was a people pleaser.

Speaker 1:

But I think she was genuine in her feedback yeah, so those are the things you're going to hear about today how to speak better, whether it's the tone of your voice, whether it's your resistance to criticism and things like going off on tangents and the power ofight, or whatever a pause can feel like an eternity, but just um remembering that what you're saying is important, so bringing it uh.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, bringing it in um and I also I, uh, I really enjoyed, um, her approach to the audience, or your audience, that they're the ones that matter, which obviously we know on this show. But you know, just keep, we're all about our audience, exactly, we're all about the audience keeping.

Speaker 1:

Exactly, we're all about the audience.

Speaker 2:

Keeping that in mind when you do public speaking, I thought was a really interesting thing to think about, because often we're in our own heads. We're getting sweaty, we're getting nervous I'm speaking for myself here, but remembering that it's about the impact you're having on other people. I think is a good takeaway.

Speaker 1:

Big having on other people, I think, is a good takeaway big time. So, yeah, we uh. That's the episode today. Just to introduce ourselves. If this is your first time listening, this is laughing through the pain navigating wellness. If you didn't know, you probably knew that when you clicked on it. But I'm richard and that's angry yeah yeah, so that's the introduction.

Speaker 1:

Enjoy the episode, listener. Do you love what you're hearing? If If so, drop us a like. Share your favourite episode with friends and help us grow by leaving a review wherever you get your podcasts. Your support means the world to us and helps keep the conversation going, so tune in, follow, like and review today like and review today.

Speaker 2:

Simone, welcome to the pod. Start you off nice and easy, as we like to do.

Speaker 3:

Why do people need to learn to speak better? Wow, there are a million reasons for this, but there are a few that really stand out. So I work with a lot of people in the professional world leaders, experts and when they come to me, a lot of the time it can be a mix of feeling like they want to improve their speaking skills or they have a fear of it. You know, often there's a little bit of both in there skills or they have a fear of it. You know, it's often there's a little bit of both in there. And ultimately what I see is when, when, it goes wrong. So when people communicate, so when we talk about speaking, it's not just how I speak or how I talk at you. It's a two way thing. You know, it's speaking and listening, listening.

Speaker 3:

So the problem when people communicate badly or speak badly is that mistakes are made. Miscommunication when you don't get your point across, when you can't clarify your thoughts in a concise way. It leaves people confused. They're sitting there thinking I'm guessing they mean this and they walk away from a meeting, got the wrong end of the stick, or they walk away from a conversation. And in the professional world, if communication goes wrong, then you see big errors getting made. So people waste money on doing the wrong thing or getting the wrong resources in. So it has a big knock-on effect.

Speaker 3:

When you don't get your message across, when you can't clarify your thoughts, your ideas, it has a knock-on effect. But ultimately, I think everyone needs to work on their speaking skills because we all want to connect in a meaningful way. Communication is really at the heart, is about connection. How can I listen and speak to the person or the people I'm with and walk away with understanding, walk away with a sense of collaboration? Maybe I want to inspire inspire that person. So there's so many reasons to to speak better or communicate better, but there are just a few that are the top of my head so how would a person know that they're they're speaking badly?

Speaker 1:

what are, what are the sort of most common mistakes you see?

Speaker 3:

yeah, so you know it can. I think we've all experienced that misworded text message or an email, a rushed email, and then the information they receive isn't what they intended to put out there. And so as a speaker, you're kind of like well, what went wrong there? Often we're very easy to blame the other person oh, what, they made a mistake, what went wrong? But usually if we ask ourselves hang on, did I communicate that information in a clear way? If we take the responsibility ourselves, we'll often see oh, maybe there was something in there that didn't come across very well.

Speaker 1:

I forgot your question main, main mistakes people make and how would someone how would someone know a listener go? Oh yeah, maybe I need to work on my speaking, because these things are happening yeah.

Speaker 3:

So, thinking about the clients I work with, I've been help. I help some people who are in the expert world where they are wanting to get their message on stage and they are walking away with a sense of frustration. So on the stage could be on their social media platforms. So they're creating video content, they are out and about pitching their business, their products, and they're not getting the response that they want, they're not getting the right kind of feedback, and so that's a first sign of maybe there's something not going as well as I intended here. So therefore, I help them look at what is going wrong. Is it the message itself, is it the content, or is it the way you are delivering it? Because speaking involves all those elements. It's not just about the words you say, it's the intent behind the words, it's the preparation you put in. So it's like I kind of do a bit of detective work and really look at what is. Where is the block? Where is the miscommunication happening In the working and corporate world?

Speaker 3:

I'll have people who say that they're especially in media. I work with a lot of media industry, so they're coming to me and saying you know, I'm going into these pictures, I've got these great ideas and either people are saying oh yeah, yeah, it's really good, and they're not buying it, or they walk out the room with this feeling of I just messed up, I just didn't sell the idea, I didn't. You know, it was such a great thing and I didn't get it across in that way. So that is you know.

Speaker 1:

They're feeling the signs themselves, so that's where they'll come to me okay, and then, in terms of people's actual voice, because it sounds like there's a lot to speaking. It's you know, it's body language, it's what you say, but just dialing into the, the voice itself, what? What are you looking for? What are you teaching people in terms of how they use their voice?

Speaker 3:

yeah. So I think one of the main things is, when people come to me, they're sort of like oh, I want to be able to. You know that guy on the start, tony robbins. He gets on the stage and he projects his voice and he's and we have this idea that we need to change ourselves or change our voice to be like these motivational speakers or like the boss who just walks into the room with such swagger and confidence.

Speaker 3:

So, when it comes to voice, the first thing I teach people is to use your voice as an instrument. You can, you know, raise the tone, you can change the pace of your voice, but ultimately, you don't need to change your accent. The girl from Liverpool. You don't need to be someone other than you are, because, at the end of the day, as soon as you start trying to be someone else, the room feels it, people feel inauthentic, you're inauthentic, you're not being your true self and you get into this kind of performance place.

Speaker 3:

We move away from performance. It's really about tapping into enthusiasm and you know your general, your deep passion, rather than a performance, because that is so off-putting off-putting for the speaker, off-putting for the people listening. So, yeah, voice, voice is important now also when it comes to the fear of public speaking, when you think about anxiety and stress. This impacts our voice, the way that we speak, the pace that we speak. We speak so much faster when we're nervous. We want to fill in the silence when we're nervous, so there is a lot of, especially at the start of a speech, a presentation, our voice changes. So what I'm teaching people is to really ground themselves, learn some breathing techniques, really allow themselves to bring in some calm so that they were able to speak with that clarity.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's really interesting you talking about individuality in your approach and being authentic and remembering. I suppose that we've all got our own unique way of expressing ourselves, but could you maybe talk to us a little bit about some of the common mistakes that we're making in terms of filler words or saying too many words, not being concise enough, not being direct enough? I think, certainly from a British point of view, the not being direct enough is a big, big thing. I find Americans, where you guys both, are now to be much more direct and in some ways that comes across as abrasive. But also you know what people are talking about more. So can you talk a little bit more about like the common sort of mistakes that people are making like that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I would say that a few of the common mistakes, the biggest mistakes people make. I've got, I think, of maybe three mistakes that people make. One of them is this we touched on it before this idea that when I'm speaking, I am talking at you. Especially when it comes to doing a TED talk, or you're on a stage of some sort, you're feeling you need to talk at someone. So there isn't this, the two-way lane, what I mentioned, it's very this feeling I need to just get my point across and you forget that it's really about listening. What does this other person, or what does this entire audience really care about? How can I give them the message or the information that they most need? Not what I want to get across, but what they genuinely care about? Another mistake is that people forget to and even this happens a lot in the business world where they're pitching and presenting. They want to get facts across and data, and it's just really boring. So I teach them the importance of telling a story or getting to the heart what's the story of this product, what's the story of your service? What is your story? And teach them to feel comfortable at weaving that in. So that's a big one.

Speaker 3:

Another mistake people make is it's similar to the first one, but they start to make it all about themselves, and that's what brings up anxiety. I need to make an impression, I need to impress this room. I need everyone not to judge me. You know, I've really. It's about me, me, me. How do I look, how do I come across? And as soon as you're in that state, you're in ego, you increase your anxiety levels because there's this affectionism that comes out, and so I really spend time teaching them to get back into that place of generosity. You care more about the people. You are speaking to the room, the audience, you step into a place of generosity and you get into a place of love and compassion and connection, which gets you out of the stress and the nerves.

Speaker 3:

When it comes to being direct, this is all about clarity. I always think about the quote when you confuse, you lose, you know. So, whatever your point is, whatever your message, I'm always making sure that everyone thinks about what is the conclusion here? Where are you going with this story? When someone tells me, gives me a pitch or a story and they go off on all different tangents, I'm sitting there thinking I am lost and confused. I don't quite trust this person because I don't think they know where they got this and I get distracted.

Speaker 3:

So when I live in America now I live in LA, and I think that what the difference is is I noticed that public speaking is a bigger thing here. People get taught it in schools. I never got taught public speaking in school. That's why I was so terrible after when I was younger. Never got taught public speaking at school. That's why I was so terrible after when I was younger. Um, so I think that there is more of an education around. Where am I going? Let's get clear with these points. How do I get a concise message across and not take? That's a skill and that's.

Speaker 1:

I think that's the difference yeah, the uh, the voice itself and sort of the prosody is something I learned about in, you know, my psychology trainings. When someone has no prosody or very low prosody in their voice, that's often a sign of trauma. So prosody is like the intonation, the rhythm, whether or not you're going up or down in your voice.

Speaker 1:

And I can remember when I first went to boarding school in england and bullying was a big part of of that culture and the boys who the first years or the sorry, the second years they would like, so excited to have new first years, because then they had people to bully and in in my, my house they, you know, they bullied us all pretty, pretty well and I remember one of them like, like making fun of me because I spoke so monotonously. I would just speak like this all the time and at the time I didn't understand it, but it was because I I did not feel safe, because I knew that any moment I was going to get punched in the stomach or something like that. And, um, yeah, it just really shows how important our sort of our feeling of safety, our self-confidence, our anxiety levels affect our, our voice. So is that something you work on with people?

Speaker 3:

definitely it really is and it's. I think a lot of people get quite surprised because they come to me like teach me how to speak better, teach me how to speak better, teach me how to be confident. And so I start with okay, well, what experiences have you had that have led you to believe that you can't? Or where is this trauma? Where are those memories? For me it was school as well. For the committee people, it's the you know. Stand up and read in front of the room, simone, and you do it, and you get a word wrong and everyone laughs and the teacher's, the you know. Stand up and read in front of the room, simone, and you do it, and you get a word wrong and everyone laughs and the teacher laughs and you know they weren't very kind to our teachers back in the day. So it's for me I have those memories that it was.

Speaker 3:

The story based on that experience was do not get up and speak in front of people. It is not worth the bullying, the trauma that comes from making a mistake. So I started to, and many people do start to have this wraparound, this belief of it's not worth it. It's not worth it. I don't want to fail. Failure is a bad thing and so always, step one is we dive into what is your background and where is this coming from? Especially those who come to me with you know even social anxiety it's.

Speaker 3:

Let's look at those memories and then we have to shine a light on it and then the next phase is really starting to. You know, bring the word is questioning, questioning it. Is this true? Is this true? I'm a terrible speaker and I will always be. Let's look for evidence. Otherwise, let's really get into those subconscious beliefs and start to reframe and start to rewire them. And that's the process, really. And they're like, oh well, what about body language and what about this? And I'm like, well, go and get to that, don't worry. Well, what about body language and what about this? And I'm like, well, go and get to that, don't worry. But this is the most important part, because if you are on a stage carrying around still all those beliefs of I'm terrible at this, I'm going to get laughed at, no matter, you can throw in as many body language cues, you can meditate, but you're still carrying around that depth and that has to change in order for you to change I had a question about.

Speaker 2:

You know you're talking about authenticity, is there? I mean, are there different challenges that come with when someone's say, speaking about something they're really passionate about I don't furthering a mental health cause or something and delivering a sales pitch for a company that you work for, that you might not necessarily kind of?

Speaker 1:

it's not your message. Asking for a friend? Yeah, asking for a friend.

Speaker 2:

No, but you know what I mean. There's kind of like there's different contexts for speaking, and sometimes you have to deliver the presentation with the big boring facts, and sometimes you have to deliver the presentation with the big boring facts, and sometimes you have to, you know, speak from the heart, and is there a big difference?

Speaker 3:

and should we be kind of channeling the same energy for both? Yeah, that's a really good question, because what happens in the work environment? Like you just said, if you're regurgitating information you've done a million times, you've lost this sense of I care about this jet matter, already walking in with a huge barrier, because anyone listening, no matter how well you fake it, they know you don't care. So the fact is, if we can feel enthusiastic about a subject matter, we can learn to apply that enthusiasm to a subject that we're not so interested in. So it's, and it's always vital to know that the energy you carry into the subject you're talking about, into the room, is the thing that the room is going to walk away with. That's what they're going to remember. They don't remember the data, they don't remember all the facts, but the way you made them feel is what they are going to walk out. That's the resonation they're going to have. So how do you apply that? When you're like, well, this is so boring to me, there are ways of integrating it. So it's really getting down to.

Speaker 3:

I speak with, I try and look at hey, how do we care about this subject matter and, I think, a bigger picture. Well, why do you care about your work? Why do you care about your work? Why do you care that that your client or customer or colleagues thinking about them again? Why, well, what are they going to benefit from this? Forget that you're reciting this over and over again. What difference is this going to make in their world? What difference is this going to make in their world? What difference is this going to make in their life? And when you really get into the heart of that and you start to bring out, oh yeah, this could improve their life X, y and Z. So it's a very important step actually to I have to do it myself. Sometimes I'm like I've done a meditation a million times and sometimes I do it on a Zoom and I can't see anyone. You know it's like a zoom webinar and I'm sitting there thinking.

Speaker 3:

I don't know people are asleep. I don't know if anyone's at average or they just locked in and run out and I have to imagine there's one, I imagine just one person in that room who really needs this today. So there's a little bit of imagination involved and and that then gets me into a place of okay, this is important. My work is important. Another big part, big piece of the puzzle is is the self value, the value, value, what you have to share, whether it's coming from a work capacity or whether it's your message. So we really spend a lot of time on that that's awesome.

Speaker 2:

It's really interesting you comment on the online environment as well, because clearly there are a lot of people presenting to a lot of blank screens these days and also the blank screens probably know that the presentation will be circulated afterwards and they probably can be doing something else. But yeah, I think I like that idea of just making you know, assuming that your message is being well received, because it's been given with with good intent. Yeah, and you just never know.

Speaker 3:

I've had that when someone's in meditation and imagined there's just one person who needs this and and I've had feedback, you know that really made a difference to me and I was. I was kind of, oh, oh, there really was one person who needed. So, um, yeah, it's a. It's really shifting back into the listener to help evoke that passion, that enthusiasm, that that can still time. Yeah, it's a training.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah. The Zoom thing is a nightmare, especially when you put up slides and then you can't see anyone's reaction. It's so painful, like I don't know. You say something you think is interesting and you get no feedback. You make a joke and you can't tell if people are laughing. It can be really jarring and especially if you share something like personal and you want, you know, some, some empathy or something like that. It can be brutal. But I guess that's a different challenge to sharing in front of a live audience where you know people just walk away or things like that, or they just you know they're on their phone. Um, so, yes, extra challenges of the digital world. Um, so what does it mean to speak like a boss with heart?

Speaker 3:

mm-hmm. So that was this is the name of my very first public speaking core, my program, my intimate group where I was just. I really wanted to help people like me because my story was very much I mentioned I was very much someone who hated public speaking, terrified of it and thought I just wasn't born to do this. See people who are great at it, confident and especially. And so at that time, rewinding a little bit, I came through the television industry. So I was a producer, executive producer, and even though I didn't have to be on camera, I had to instruct a room or a team sometimes hundreds of people, directors, directors, editors, producers to go out and, you know, create great telly. And the more I had to do that I assumed it would get easier and sometimes it did, but I still always felt this sense of fear and overwhelm and imposter syndrome, always felt this sense of fear and overwhelm and imposter syndrome. So, anyway, I really wanted to help people who were in that place that I was, that were feeling that sense of stuckness. And the reason I went on to get out of that is because I started working with a coach and she told me, because I really need to, this is a problem. You know, I'm very red, I'm shaking, I'm supposed to be their leader. She's like, oh, you know, you can just go and learn public speaking skills. And I was like, really, yeah, I know, go on to Toastmasters, learn the skills and you'll get better. And it's like I kind of knew I could do that, but I didn't really think it was possible for me. I've been struggling with my own fears around any form of public speaking and this self-doubt, and it was this like penny dropping moment when I was working with a coach about it. I was going to tell you how terrible it was. She just said why don't you go? Why don't you go learn how to do public speaking? Go along to Toastmasters. It's a class that teaches you how to get up there and communicate and learn all the skills. And what I know now is their, their form of of lesson, is around immersion therapy.

Speaker 3:

So it's, you know, each week I would I just moved to la at the time so each week we would go down to a denny's diner on a tuesday morning at 7 am and in the room and you can imagine, because it's in la there was all sorts of people with comedians practicing their, their, their material. There were people in marketing, there was a couple there, there was this other couple who were running it, who had been doing it for like 50 years, and so that alone was very entertaining and everyone was so different. So I knew that, okay, not everyone is brilliant at speaking and they're all here to get better, and so I was like, okay, I'm not the only one, I can do this. So that's where it started for me and that's where I committed to choosing to improve these skills and so that what I'd walked away from with that was a lot of the, the body language and even some of the storytelling. I knew a lot of the essence of storytelling from my work as a TV producer, but this was a new way, a new way of delivering it.

Speaker 3:

And after that I sort of at the same time, I started embarking on a meditation teacher training. I started learning all about how to harness and how to navigate the anxiety that I felt, how to manage my emotions, how to manage my thoughts, and really the so Speak Like a Boss with Heart was the product of all of this. I wanted to bring the two elements, the skills of public speaking, along with the mindset tools to help people in the workplace or if they've got a wedding speech or whatever is coming up, they could go out and do it and they could do it well. And so all of my work is really about coming from the heart. That means that we're really tapping into a heart wisdom we're getting out of our head, we're getting out of the stories and the doubt and the resistance and we're learning how to channel our enthusiasm and passion through the heart.

Speaker 3:

And the speak like a boss part was okay. This, this is the client that I'm working with a lot people, people in the workplace. So that's where that came from and it's still going now actually. So that's my small green program and the essence of it is I take them through the steps of writing and delivering a TED-style talk, and the reason I did that is because, after my Toastmasters experience, I eventually got to the point where I was brave enough to do a TED Talk and, going through that process and learning how to get on a stage and deliver and not faint, I decided that's going to be a useful format for people to follow, no matter what they're doing. You know that feeling of I did that and they didn't collapse and I now know these tools to take into any any of these life experiences. So that's where it all sort of started and, yeah, it's very much still a big part of my work yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think I want to ask you about sort of resilience. But obviously people know what resilience is. You know tolerance, to stress that kind of thing, and I know you do work with people like that. But when someone's speaking up on stage you can be resilient to, to a stress, of course, but some people just speaking is not stressful for them, it's just something they don't mind doing. And I think a big part of that is criticism is how they take criticism, and this is something I really struggle with is is being sensitive to criticism, and I I think the antidote to that is having a greater sense of self, is not thinking about what other people think of you, but knowing who you are, what your talents are and things like that. So how do you help people to not be so sensitive to criticism?

Speaker 3:

this is a big thing for me. That's also been such a huge challenge for me over my life being open to criticism, judgment, and I think I sort of talk about it as the umbrella of failure. You know, if you stumble over your words, if you lose track of your thought, you have this overwhelming sense or you can do that. Everybody is just sat there saying, thinking what is this person doing? Why are they even up there? Who do they think they are? That's a very I think that felt like it was a very British criticism. Who do you think you are getting on the stage? So criticism is fundamentally one of those barriers to being able to be a confident speaker and so, on the flip side, the antidote.

Speaker 3:

I very much spend a lot of time building a sense of self-trust and this idea that failure is not a problem, and that is a really big part of resilience, because if we are prepared to fail, if we're prepared to take criticism, to have judgment, then that is the only way we can succeed. If we are not prepared, if we're too afraid of it, if we're like, no, I don't want the criticism, I don't want the judgment, we're going to stay safe, we're not going to get on stage. We're not going to put ourselves forward for promotion or a pay rise. So self-trust says I can get up there and make a mistake and it might not feel nice, but I can come back from this. It's not over. I can trust myself enough to know I can get better. It's not over. I can trust myself enough to know I can get better. The other part, the opposite, is I'm going to get up there and fail and my life is over. You know, that's where most of our conditioning is, and I see it especially in a corporate world or even media.

Speaker 3:

You're taught failure is bad. You fail an interview, you're not getting the job. Failure is bad. You fail an interview, you're not getting the job. You fail to write a good script, you fail to do great pictures. Let's get someone else who's better. There's no room for failure in a lot of business world as well. So we're repeatedly told don't mess up. And then for me, as someone who doesn't like as a bit of a people pleaser and didn't like any kind of criticism, I've had to sit with it's okay not to be liked by everyone. I've had to meditate on that. I've had to really do a lot of thought, work and belief, work around building my self-trust. And when I've got the self-trust I'm like it's okay, this can go wrong and it's going be okay.

Speaker 1:

I've got my own bath because they say out here yeah, yeah, I think when you are doing I don't know tv or podcasting, if you're not sort of upsetting some people, you're not going to be saying anything interesting. You know, we we have said some criticism for some of our guests and some of the things we've said, but it wasn't like criticism of just like. This is bad, it was well, we have a different point of view and that sparked debate and that sparked interest and that's entertaining for people. So I think for me, one of the things I tell myself when doing a podcast and public speaking is like if you're not getting any criticism, you're not doing anything worthwhile, you know, because it would just be so boring and bland and no one's going to be interested in that. So that's one of the ways I trick myself into saying controversial things yeah, it's a really good it's.

Speaker 3:

I think it's a smart trickering. Oh yeah, the brain tricks you. You have to bring them in and and and yeah, see it as part and parcel. If I want to share a great, a great message, if I want to do something big in the world, it there's. There's no way that everybody's gonna like it. There is no way on earth that you're just gonna speak authentically and passionately or have in different opinions and everybody's gonna like it. It's just impossible. So if you get out of that illusion like this is all gonna go smooth, like and so it's going to happen. And how am I going to treat myself? How am I going to talk to myself when I get that criticism? I used to be the worst. I had the worst inner critic. Don't ever make a mistake. You know life is over and when. And then that just held me back even more. So I didn't even have the criticism, but I was giving it to myself. Yeah, I still, I still struggle with it I'm uh.

Speaker 2:

So I'm just getting over the shock of uh hearing that rich needs to talk himself into saying something controversial well.

Speaker 1:

So I guess it's not talking myself in, but there was there's. You know, if I was just meeting someone new for the first time and I really wanted them to like me, I would probably filter myself more and not say the sort of controversial things. But this is a podcast, this is an entertainment medium. We we've got to take risks, otherwise people are just not going to tune in um so saying that how, you've heard us speak for a little while, what would you be coaching us? How can we make this podcast better? Can we get some free speaking coaching live on air? Right now is there a two-part question yeah, is our voices.

Speaker 1:

Could we doing be doing more with our voice? Are we doing too many ums and uhs? Anything you've noticed? Now? Feel free to be very critical oh okay.

Speaker 3:

Well, look, I think what you're doing right is the following so you naturally come coming from a place of curious, asking questions that you, I feel you were genuinely interested in. You know, learning some, maybe some tools for yourself or for people you know, and obviously the audience. So that alone allows me to feel a connection and engagement with you. So that's like rule number one. You got off to a great start there, and, considering there's two of you asking questions, you've got a nice flow. You know there's not not. I didn't feel too overwhelmed by a bombardment of questions and it feels very natural. So I think this is probably quite a nice yes, feels, maybe not like maybe the first one you did, but it feels like it's kind of easy for you, doesn't feel like it's challenging. How do you feel about public speaking, though? How do you feel when you get on a stage or that you have to speak to that room all staring at you? You can see all their faces. How are you in that situation?

Speaker 1:

me, I like it, I enjoy it, I get excited by it and, um, yeah, I think it brings out the best in me I'll give you two examples.

Speaker 2:

One is when I would I did the ceremony for my friend's wedding. I was super nervous but when I was up there it felt absolutely amazing because it was obviously so heartfelt to two of my friends marrying one another. So it's like beautiful moment, amazing setting love. That not so good is when I'm on like a panel talking about a development I've done. That is kind of, you know I've done to death. I'm so in the detail, I'm just answering questions and it's hard to be enthusiastic about them. So I think the authenticity piece for me is really hard in terms of if I don't believe in something, it's really hard to keep my energy and engagement high. I suppose.

Speaker 3:

And I think that is actually hitting nail on the head there. Because you believe in in this, you believe there's a sense of this is a a deep, there's a deeper purpose with the work you're doing podcast and when you believe both in yourself, the, the idea you're sharing and the people who are listening. There's three levels to it. It's not just again about you and I sit here and really get into that energy of believing in this. Where can I find the passion? Where can I find the enthusiasm? When you ask the right questions, you'll find it, and you can sit there with a list before you go on to a panel. And, yeah, remember that person. That one person in the room just might really need to be listening to what you're about to share. It might not be boring to them They've heard it a hundred times but in terms of things like filler words, I'm guilty of the filler word. I know that it can be a cultural thing as well.

Speaker 3:

In Liverpool, a lot of people have many filler words and so we carry them with us and the best way to. So this is what they did in Toastmasters we would get up and they would ask a spontaneous question, talk for two minutes on peonies and you're like I don't really know anything about peonies, I was gonna wing it. And every time you said a filler word, just so no likes they would ding a bell. And so you're getting you know in the moment and you realize, oh, I am using that filler word a lot In everyday life. No one's going to be dinging a bell for you and in some ways it can feel quite harsh, but you're just bringing enough awareness to it to start noticing it yourself. Many fellow words we really don't notice. Start noticing it ourselves and then you just get to practice a bit more.

Speaker 3:

A big one, I think again, you just do it naturally is the power of the pause yes, speaking and nervousness around speaking. We want to fill in the gaps, we want to use filler words. So if you can practice pausing before you speak and that means taking those breaths, really listening to what that the other person is, you know, wanting or saying you now have a chance to formulate your thoughts in a much more concise way to what the other person is wanting or saying. You now have a chance to formulate your thoughts in a much more concise way. So if you're sitting there listening to me now and thinking, oh, what's the next question? Or maybe, oh, that's a good point, I'll know that for later. You're often thinking about I'm not in your head, but that's usually what's the next thing to say, and sometimes that takes you away from really getting into the moment. So practicing the power of the pause just allows you to have this powerful, powerful moment clarity, confidence. And it was a mark twain who I was looking for it before because it's so good.

Speaker 1:

Well, I was just going to say the pause thing in podcasts is an interesting one, because often when I listen to a podcast and the host or guest is using a lot of pauses, I think, oh, my app is broken, oh, what's going on? I look at my phone it's like, oh, there's an error. But it's not. It's just the person has taken a pause and uh, yeah, we have a podcast editor and she will take out pauses that are are in there because it's it's better for the, for the listener experience. But I guess that's maybe the difference between podcasting and giving a pitch and doing a ted talk yeah, exactly yeah, the, the edited down version.

Speaker 3:

No one wants to hit pauses and it's like I remember as a producer when I had to interview, you know, guests, celebrities, whatever. There was an art to really helping them bring out the best story, helping them feel comfortable, and I think you're doing a great job with that. But I think just always useful to keep in mind, if I can hold back or pick up on certain things that they've said, it might go off on a different tangent, but hey, you might get something really juicy out of it. So, yeah, it's an art to listening, to communicating, and I can't fault you in many ways, to be honest.

Speaker 3:

So it's going on our season if somebody video of you, of you on a panel.

Speaker 2:

I'll give you a song oh yeah, uh, no, I refuse um. Can we hear the mark twain?

Speaker 3:

quite did you mark twain? Where's he gone?

Speaker 1:

Simone, you did say you're a people pleaser, though Are you being too nice by not telling?

Speaker 2:

us our faults. Yeah, maybe just tell us our fair. Don't stare at us whilst we're actually calling.

Speaker 1:

I don't think Andy actually consented to being criticised so maybe you should just criticise me, okay deal.

Speaker 3:

so maybe, uh, you should just criticize me, okay deal.

Speaker 3:

the right word might be effective, but no word was ever as effective as a rightly timed horse that is good that is very good, like that and also, especially when you're on a stage or, you know, on a paddle, means that you're allowing the listener to digest what you just shared. When you keep filling the gaps, this now, oh, now I'm thinking about the next thing. Now, think about it. Don't really? It's a powerful moment to say, oh, now it's about to absorb, because they want to think about what you just said as well.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, yeah that very much aligns with what andrew huberman was saying about the best ways to learn. He did a whole podcast about learning and he said the best way to do that is to take frequent pauses. You know, do like a five minute piece of information and then give them 30 seconds just of silence, just to digest that. And yeah, just keeping doing those, those frequent pause. I can't remember exactly how long he said, if it was a pause for for 30 seconds or five minutes, but yeah, pauses are are useful for our learning yeah, and and the reason I talk about it is because they're actually really hard.

Speaker 3:

It's such an awkward moment that we were like, oh, they don't like feeling this awkwardness, but to be able to sit with that is so powerful. You know that all ties into the emotional intelligence and self-awareness when it comes to being a good speaker. It has to start with that.

Speaker 2:

Yes absolutely, I wanted to talk about, if I I may change the tangent a little bit. You spoke earlier about your um background and I think you've done um meditation training. How much, if any, does that kind of feed into the work you do now?

Speaker 3:

a huge amount. Yeah, it was. It was interesting because I never imagined myself as being a meditation teacher and I was very much identified. I think you know I was coming up to nearly 20 years in the TV industry. So to then be like, oh, I'm just going to go off and be a meditation teacher, it was so alien to me. But there was a couple things going on.

Speaker 3:

Work challenges were definitely a big part of personal anxiety, overwhelm. I was using food a lot, alcohol a lot to cope with the stress and the intensity of. I sometimes would do 27 hour shifts on shows like Big Brother Just silly, crazy work conditions and everyone was doing it. So I was like, oh well, it's not. You know, I have to pack it. This is how you get ahead, just push through. And I didn't have a breakdown or anything. But I knew that this was not healthy and I knew I needed to have used something other than sugar and alcohol to to get me through. So the meditation was the first, was really such an empowering moment for me that I realized, oh, I can take some sort of control of this I have, I can manage these emotions in a way and I can help reduce my levels of cortisol, I can sleep better, you know I can. Obviously, the work conditions definitely needed to change as well, but that was a really awakening moment. A real awakening moment and as when I started to learn about how to do public speaking, how to be a better leader in the workplace, I knew that that mindset part was so important and it really does play a part in everything I teach now.

Speaker 3:

So, aside from the public speaking courses and the pitching presentation, I work a lot with corporates. So I teach seminars, workshops all around managing stress, managing anxiety, because I know if everyone has the ability or even just a few techniques, this could start a ripple effect. They could then start looking into oh I can do something about this, what else can I do? They're not a victim to the circumstances or their work. They can actually make a difference and make a change.

Speaker 3:

So, yes, meditation, I went off and did a teacher training, this 400 hour teacher training, and I really just wanted to feel better. Another, another thing in the background that was going on was my husband and I were really struggling to have a baby and we spent so many years and so much money through the whole fertility journey and it was really breaking my heart on so many levels and it wasn't good for our relationship, and so meditation then became a big, bigger part for me, because I needed it to help with the grief and to help me get through those challenges way of of feeling that sense of self-worth fulfillment, of being able to move through their pain and not suffer so much.

Speaker 1:

So it's all very interlinked, they're not separate absolutely well, I think one thing people think when they start meditation is I'm gonna fail, and what do you have to say that? How do you fail at meditation?

Speaker 3:

okay, this is a good one. This looks like people saying to me simone, I can't meditate, my mind is too busy, I'm way too distracted and just I'm not good at it, can't do it. And I used to think the same thing like well, if we? Well, if meditation is sitting on a cloud of bliss clearing all my thoughts huge misconception then A I'm not doing it right and B I'm failing at it. You can't fail at meditation because it is a practice. It's not a goal. What you're doing is developing a sense of awareness.

Speaker 3:

Failing that meditation is like saying I went to the gym today and I could not pick up that 100-pound weight, so I failed at being strong. You're like no, you're not going to be strong on the first attempt, and it's the progressive slowly building up. So the idea of failing one is like there I go again, worrying about the future. I'm dread, reminiscing on the past, the problems, the pain and actually those failed moments. Or those are the moments of awakening, cause if you can catch the thought and be aware of it and be aware of the emotion, that's the first step in that's meditation.

Speaker 3:

So if you're easy to go backwards and forwards from the thought, a worry, a doubt. There it is again. There it is again. That's the practice. There it is again, there it is again. That's the practice. And as long as you're not judging it and wanting it to go away or fighting it, you can then, over time, start to have this amazing sense of groundedness, this feeling of I don't have to be ruled by my thoughts, I don't have to be dictated by these beliefs. That's such an empowering place to be. So. No, you can't fail.

Speaker 1:

And meditation yeah, that practice of surrender, I think, is something that is comes up in so many different traditions. You know breathwork, ayahuasca and meditation and it's it's just the people who fail at meditation, I think, are the people who need to understand that. You know you're surrendering is a sort of an action of strength. You know it's not weakness. You're surrendering to the moment, you're surrendering to your pain, you're surrendering to the grief, and I find so many people struggle with that and it really holds them back and they get stuck in. You know their pain or they're stuck in in their anxiety and things like that. But, um, yeah, I think it's really important. And accountability that's something you speak about and uh, yeah, how important is accountability?

Speaker 3:

you know, accountability really for me has is, like I said, what even working with a coach that first time around, the very first time I did, allowed me to A see what was possible to be in the company of someone who was supporting, supportive and helped me create a clear direction of where I wanted to go, a direction of where I wanted to go, and then showing up for her every week, I just saw a huge shift in my life that you know, friends can do it to a degree and you know, sometimes family members, but to have one person or even a group of people, all you're focused on is helping you meet those goals. And the reason I think it's important is because as soon as you say I want to. So I've just signed up to do the LA marathon next year. Never done one before and it, you know, took me a while to get my head into it, but I did eventually. So that was a is a huge change for me. I've got to start running. I'm sort of, you know, am I someone who can be a runner when I've always hated it and the process of doing something big and scary? I have to have accountability for it. So I've told friends I just, you know I've got a plan and what you know, work with a coach these are all ways to help me meet that goal, because it's a big goal.

Speaker 3:

It's a huge change for me and even if you wanted to have a small change in your life, change is fundamentally hard. It's unfamiliar, and even when you've got so much excitement and motivation in the beginning, it usually tapers off because a changes too weird for us. It's very, you know, we see it as a threat. It's kind of like no, I draw on staying in the same place. It feels safe. So the accountability element helps you through the hurdles every time you hit the low points and it says I need help. And often we do need need help. We can't just do it on our own. So, yeah, I've run a few accountability groups because, again, it's just something that I know personally has helped me in many ways and, as you know, do it the right way, then you, then you can also meet those goals yeah, I totally agree.

Speaker 1:

I accountability people. If they've got the money, I think you should use coaches for whatever they want, because so many people just say, oh, I can't do this, I can't exercise. Well, when people get a personal trainer, just having that accountability, they turn up to the gym. Or I can't meditate, when people have a meditation coach, they're more likely to do it same with any kind of yeah, accountability based thing. It doesn't don't necessarily have to pay for a coach. You know you can do it with a friend and things like that, but just having that support is so valuable definitely yeah, or you can go and find a free accountability group or your friends.

Speaker 3:

It's just committing to it really saying yeah, this is the plan.

Speaker 1:

I told each other accountable yes, okay, it might be unfair to um ask you this because you said about it off off air.

Speaker 2:

Um, simone, but can you talk a little bit about like the future, like what? What's next for you? What are you working on? When does this work?

Speaker 3:

um grow where is it going? Yeah, it's. It's interesting because and like the meditation teacher question, though I'm not gonna be, I'm not a meditation teacher, and or what could I ever be one the same happens around public speaking. You know, I had all this sense of well, I'm not exactly this big inspirational motivation at the speaker. And why am I doing this work? And, ultimately, the people I'm working with?

Speaker 3:

Now, every time I work with a client, the sense of fulfillment to help them go from that point A that moment of I'm dreading this, I'm terrible at it, everyone's judging me into a place of acceptance, into a place of belief and courage. I can go out and I can go into that room and I can do this while I have that trust in myself. That alone is so motivating for me. But I'm also working with a lot of experts and people with an amazing story or a really important message, and they don't quite know how to tell that story. They don't know how to write it, they don't know how to deliver it in a way that will create impact.

Speaker 3:

And when I work with those types of people, I'm like you have got such an important message. Whoever you tell this to, I know they're going to be sitting there thinking I need to hear. I know they're going to be sitting there thinking I needed to hear this and this is going to make a difference in my life. So if I can give them that sort of confidence and the platform to be able to do it whether it's on the tech stage, whether it's through social media videos, however you want to do it that is super inspiring for me. So I want to do more of that. I helped three three experts in the past six months to do a ted talk, so I've got them booked on a stage and and I helped them through each part of the process.

Speaker 1:

It's just really fun.

Speaker 3:

You know each element of it, so more of that, please.

Speaker 1:

Awesome awesome, and how do people find you I?

Speaker 3:

do I have a website? I'm on Instagram. I think the best thing to do is at the moment, I'm creating new courses. I offer free workshops a lot, so it's either on my Instagram We'll signpost it We'll put it on there.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's simontieatmecom and get on my newsletter because that's where they'll hear about any of my workshops. If it's a company, I do a lot of corporate work, so they will contact me and I can send over a proposal and tailor it to their company as well. What does your team need? What specifically do you want to achieve? Achieve out of um, a public speaking course? Do people just really need to get better at the presentations, and often there's much more to it, but that's um. Yeah, they can just email me and I can send them information awesome.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you very much, simone yes, thank you very much indeed for giving us your time. Yeah, so interesting talking to you and I think that thing about knowing that it matters to someone is a really good takeaway, so thank you for that yeah, you're welcome brilliant hi, welcome back.

Speaker 2:

Uh, the what my point on the? Um that one of the last things I said I thought was a very good one, though I say so myself which is, I think you know, in the, in the environment of zooms and people not being on the screen and perhaps um a little bit of uh monotony, just thinking that what you're saying matters to one person, um, and I think it's a very nice message is that what we're doing does?

Speaker 1:

is that what we're doing now? Just telling, and thanks to our one listener for being there.

Speaker 2:

We, we hear you, we see you, yeah um no, I thought it's a really nice message and a really important one to take away yeah, so shall I.

Speaker 1:

Shall I do say the things that I thought I did really well, now oh, yeah, sure, highlight my contributions yeah, none. None saying controversial things and building yourself up to it.

Speaker 2:

That's a good thing. Um, yeah, no, I thought I thought she also. Um, I thought it was also very uh, I enjoyed your interaction um surrounding uh, when you said that you actually really enjoy it, you relish it. Um, because it come off the back of, of, I think, her expecting us to be like we're pretty nervous and dread it and have to build up to it, which is kind of more where I sit, but it's, I guess, with your practice of um having to be an authority on breath work. Maybe you've got used to, uh, used to it um, I think it's just a star for attention.

Speaker 1:

Didn't get enough attention from my parents and then when I would go up on stage you know, in school plays and public speaking competitions I would get the uh, the love and attention that I am. I wasn't getting elsewhere.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, there's a deeper, deeper insight into my time for that now, but I was the main part in the school play, so maybe there's something going on there for me as well.

Speaker 1:

Maybe, maybe, yes, well, more on Andy and I's childhood trauma next week.

Speaker 2:

No, thanks again to Simone for coming on. I think speech and communication is so important in today's world, maybe more than ever. It feels quite divisive, so connecting and putting your message across all good things to know about.

Speaker 1:

Yes, indeed, all right. And where do they find us, andy?

Speaker 2:

Great question. They find us on Instagram at the Breath Geek at Andy Esam, and they find us on Richard's website, richardlblakecom. Yeah, and sign up for our newsletter. Sign up for our newsletter. The first one is now out. The second one is out. Probably the fourth, fifth, they're probably all out now.

Speaker 1:

We had a bit of a malfunction with the second one. We had a malfunction in that it went out slightly prematurely. It's still fine.

Speaker 2:

Uh, it's not offensive or anything like that no, some of some of richard's uh fitness um photos ended up in there um from the lock to the private file the before uh, there's a good reason to sign up for my newsletter.

Speaker 1:

You may get things that I accidentally sent out to all of my contacts instead of keeping them private. All right, well, thank you for listening this far.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for listening. Yeah, and see you next week. Bye-bye.