Are outdated city ordinances suffocating the spirit of rural homesteading? On today's episode of "Keeping it Real, the Gorham Homestead Podcast," we unravel the intense battle of a young couple in Dickson, Tennessee, who are caught in the crossfire of a restrictive law prohibiting chickens within a thousand feet of another structure. You'll hear about their determination to challenge this ordinance, the unexpected community support they garnered, and some intriguing off-the-record advice from a codes enforcer. This episode shines a light on the ongoing struggle between preserving rural living ideals and resisting encroaching urban regulations, advocating for the right to self-sustainability and community resilience.
As we shift gears, we delve into the nitty-gritty of launching and running a farm-based business. From FDA regulations to food freedom laws in Tennessee, this episode covers everything you need to legally sell herbs, chickens, and freeze-dried foods. We'll also tackle the importance of liability insurance, contracts, and choosing the right business structure to protect your homestead enterprise. Whether you're a seasoned homesteader or just embarking on this journey, our episode is packed with invaluable insights to help you navigate the legal landscape and operate your business ethically and successfully. Don't miss out on these essential tips to ensure your farm thrives within the bounds of the law.
Are outdated city ordinances suffocating the spirit of rural homesteading? On today's episode of "Keeping it Real, the Gorham Homestead Podcast," we unravel the intense battle of a young couple in Dickson, Tennessee, who are caught in the crossfire of a restrictive law prohibiting chickens within a thousand feet of another structure. You'll hear about their determination to challenge this ordinance, the unexpected community support they garnered, and some intriguing off-the-record advice from a codes enforcer. This episode shines a light on the ongoing struggle between preserving rural living ideals and resisting encroaching urban regulations, advocating for the right to self-sustainability and community resilience.
As we shift gears, we delve into the nitty-gritty of launching and running a farm-based business. From FDA regulations to food freedom laws in Tennessee, this episode covers everything you need to legally sell herbs, chickens, and freeze-dried foods. We'll also tackle the importance of liability insurance, contracts, and choosing the right business structure to protect your homestead enterprise. Whether you're a seasoned homesteader or just embarking on this journey, our episode is packed with invaluable insights to help you navigate the legal landscape and operate your business ethically and successfully. Don't miss out on these essential tips to ensure your farm thrives within the bounds of the law.
Hey y'all, and welcome to keeping it real, the Gorham homestead podcast, where we talk about real food, real natural living, the real art of natural healing and real life out here in our Tennessee homestead. I'm your host, dawn Gorham, and today is Tuesday, may the 28th 2024, and you're listening to episode number 13, keeping it Legal-ish on the homestead. So the name of the game around here is circumvention, not compliance. Listen to me again Circumvention, not compliance. I literally have a t-shirt that says on the front the Gorham Homestead, and it has that on the t-shirt. And the reason is is because laws sometimes can be set up.
Speaker 1:
Now, I'm not against laws Let me, let me go ahead and back that up but sometimes laws are not set up as fairly to the consumer where they should be, as they should be, and, in my personal opinion, a victimless crime. Law should not be a law. There should be freedom. We should have the freedom to feed ourselves, to feed our neighbors, to make our own decisions, and so today, let me just go ahead and say today's episode is one that I need to do. A disclaimer I'm not an attorney. This is not meant to be construed as legal advice. Always remember that laws can vary from state to state, municipality to municipality, city ordinance to city ordinance, and that you always need to seek the advice of a qualified attorney before you make decisions on how you are going to proceed on your homestead. Now, that being said, this is just some things that we do and that we know a lot of people who do these things. They are just some ideas and some thoughts on how, you know, we can provide quality food to our neighbors and to our community and to our families and to ourselves and, you know, not end up in a whole ton of hot water over it, because that's, you know, that kind of defeats the purpose. I will circumvent the law when necessary, but I'd rather not have to Like, I would rather the law be in my favor, I would rather be in compliance, I would rather be on the right side of things.
Speaker 1:
I'm a good person. I believe I try to be a good person. I'm not always, but I try to be a good person and I try to follow the rules. Following the rules is not always the most beneficial to yourself and the most beneficial to your health, the most beneficial to your faith, your family, your medical decisions. So I have broken that mold.
Speaker 1:
You know, I was a teacher's kid. Teacher's kids are rule followers. Ask me how I know. In my graduating class there was about 15 of us that were teachers kids and we were like we told the line. We really, really did. We didn't get in a whole lot of trouble. We were scared to because, everything you know, we were right there at the high school with our parents and everything came back on us and so, anyway, I had to break that, having my seat in my butt, in the seat when the bell rang, with my pencil in my hand and my face forward and my eyes on the chalkboard, kind of mentality. And one of the things that we got going on right now Well, one of the things we got going on right now is why I'm in a fight for freedom is in the Dixon Tennessee.
Speaker 1:
So we're here in Dixon Tennessee. One of our community members keeps getting nasty grams from the city telling them that they cannot have chickens within a thousand feet of another structure. A thousand feet, that is a football field, that's longer than a football field and it's a ridiculous, unreasonable amount of distance. But that ordinance has been on the books since, apparently, the 60s and they've just never really enforced it. Well, the only time it ever really gets enforced is when you've got a nasty neighbor, and unfortunately this young couple that has their chickens they got a nasty neighbor. The nasty neighbor keeps turning them in.
Speaker 1:
And so I ran into one of the codes guys, one of the guys that is the enforcer of such things here in Dixon County at Tractor Supply, and I cornered him and I was like, hey, I want to know what's going on with the chicken thing, because back several months ago we were trying to change the law and it was coming up in front of the council. But they wanted to make it to where they could inspect your coop and charge you a $25 fee every year, a hen permit, and you could only have four chickens, and it didn't matter how many, how much acreage you had, it was still just four chickens. And they wanted it had to be so many square feet for your coop and they had to be able to come and look at your coop and be no, it was just super invasive and they did not expect the number of people from the community to show up in opposition as we did. So it just kind of got swept under the rug. So when I saw the codes guy at Tractor Supply. I was like, hey, I want to know what's going on. He said, just tell your people to do what they want to do, just tell your people to have your chickens, have their chickens. And so I was like, okay. So I kind of thought that of course you know you should always get something like that in writing, which they're not going to do, because that was, you know, on the down low.
Speaker 1:
Um, so it's reared its ugly head again. Apparently the neighbor has turned them in again. Um, neighbor doesn't like them, neighbor's city folk. And we've got other people driving around moving here from the city that's driving around in the city limits taking pictures of people with their chickens and telling them they're not allowed to have this. And they're literally screaming this stuff from their car windows as they're videoing and taking pictures of people in their own yards with their own things going on. And they have plenty of space, their chickens are well kept, their animals are well kept. They're just being Karens for no good reason and unfortunately there's really not anything we can do about it.
Speaker 1:
You can't stop someone from driving by your house and taking pictures or videoing or anything else unless it becomes to a level of stalking like every day, all the time you know stalking you, threatening you, that sort of thing. Then you know, potentially there might be an order of protection or something to be had. But typically that doesn't even happen unless there's some sort of familial relationship with that person. That's hard to get even in that instance. So I don't know, I don't know what the answer for is or the answer is for that. But we are going to um I told them to hold off and see if they get another letter. If they get another love, they get a second letter, then probably what we are going to do is write them a letter back to the city from the law office, from my husband's law office and um advise them that they have been, he has been retained and that we are, you know, potentially going to file suit if the law is not changed to something reasonable. Now, coming back on that, we're going to have to propose to them something reasonable. They are not going to allow and they're not going to agree to 100 chickens on a half acre lot with roosters, and it's just not going to happen.
Speaker 1:
So to me, I think that the number of chickens should be proportionate to the lot size, because some of these people have an acre inside the city limits. Some of them have five acres, but just because they're within that city limit sign, all of a sudden they're you know, they're not qualified to be able to have chickens, and that's just silly. We have a right, a fundamental right, to be able to feed ourselves, especially in this economy, with the price of everything going up Um, the just the cost to move food. Nowadays, it's never going to be really cheaper to have your own chickens in your own, especially if you raise them the way that you. You know most people want to raise them organic, non-gmo, all that good stuff, but still you have a right to have that. You have a right to be in control of your food supply, and they are trying to stop these people from being able to do that, and they are trying to stop these people from being able to do that.
Speaker 1:
So, on that note, I've reached out to one of our senators here in Tennessee, senator Nicely going to see if he can maybe help guide us on the proper way to proceed so that we don't end up causing more harm than we do. Good, because that is not what I want. I do not want other people who have chickens within the city limits to start getting targeted. I don't want it to be worse than it is. I don't want any negative outcomes from this. So I'm really trying to tread the water lightly and try to proceed without making um, without making it worse.
Speaker 1:
So there's where we are on the on the chickens. And if you have chickens where you are, just remember you know you can always petition, you can always file suit if you need to. You know that costs money, but at the same time you get enough people joining together that want something changed and then you've got a potential to get something changed. But it takes strength in numbers. They're not going to listen to one or two people. You have to join together, you have to have a community, you have to have people showing up and letting their voices be heard. So just kind of keep that in mind. So just kind of keep that in mind.
Speaker 1:
The USDA and FDA part of the problem that we have is that they have literally come out and said that we do not have a fundamental right to feed ourselves foods of our own choosing, that they know better than we do what we should be eating and that they know what's safe and we don't that. We're not smart enough, we're not wise enough, we're not careful enough to make our own decisions. And here in Tennessee, some of our legislators are fighting back against that. I suspect that more of them than not just pretend that they are fighting back and in reality they just kind of sit back and let things happen because, looking at their voting record, they're not quite as much on the freedom side as they would like for people to believe, would like for people to believe. So that's where our vote and our voice makes a difference is at the local level, at the state level. We cannot do anything about anything that goes on at the federal level. We just can't, we're not going to make a difference at that level. Where you're going to make a difference is within your city, within your town and within your state. And once you get up to state level, even that is difficult is that they have this.
Speaker 1:
Even the Tennessee Supreme Court has deemed raw milk herd shares to be legal, because you have the right in the state of Tennessee to drink the milk from your own cow in whatever form that you choose to drink that milk in. So people will join together and they will form herd shares and they will join herd shares, and that's basically where the group of people owns the herd of cows and then the person who actually owns the farm. You're not paying them for the gallon of milk. You are paying them for the act of boarding your animal, caring for your animal and then milking your animal and providing you with fruits of their labor. So you're not buying the milk, you're just participating in the care and the work. In that sense, You're paying the person to do the work for you. Same thing as it would be if you hired a farmhand and you had your own dairy cow. They milked it, you drank it same thing.
Speaker 1:
You can do the same sort of setup to get around some of the other laws, I guess I should say by setting up farm shares. So you can technically and I know that herd shares work in the state of Tennessee, so I don't know why farm shares would not work. I know there's a couple of other states where they do this, they do this, but you can let people own a stock or a share of your entire farm, which means in return weekly or monthly or every other week or typically it's weekly though they can come to your farm and pick up whatever their share is for the week, whether it's a couple of pork chops or some steaks and some butter and some milk and homemade bread, whatever it is that your farm is producing that week that that particular customer has a share in, you can technically sell them or sell them shares and provide that service for them. That is not something that I know of many people doing here in the state of Tennessee, so I'm not 100% positive that it works, but that's just something to give you a little bit of an idea. Sort of the same thing is like when you go to Jack Daniels and you visit the Jack Daniels distillery. So Jack Daniels is a dry county, right? You can't buy liquor in Lynchburg. So you can't. Jack Daniels is a dry county. Jack Daniels is in a dry county Lynchburg, whatever county that is. So you can't buy liquor there. So the way that they circumvent that by being able to allow people to purchase bottles of their bourbon there at the distillery is that they do not sell you the bourbon, they sell you the bottle. They sell you the empty glass bottle. That's what you're purchasing. Now if it happens to have I don't know a small batch bottle bourbon inside the bottle, then so be it, but that's how they get around it. They're not selling you the bourbon, they're selling you the bottle, and so that's how you've kind of got to think.
Speaker 1:
When there's something that you're wanting to be able to provide to folks from your farm, think about ways that you can get around that and still be within the law, still be legal, still not be breaking the law, but being able to do what you need to do to make money and to earn a living. When it gets to herbs, that's something that you have to be super careful about, because you technically the FDA says you can either sell herbs or you can teach people, people about herbs. You cannot do both. Now people do it and have been doing it for years, and the reason that they did that was because of all the weight loss products and stuff out there that were just gimmicks and they were taking people's money and they were educating them and then selling them the thing, and a lot of that stuff turned out to just be scams, and so that was the reasoning behind them putting in their don't tell and sell law is what it was nicknamed. So now I can, if I wanted to create a concoction or create an herb blend or something like that, specifically for a person. You could come to me and we can have a one-on-one and then I can make something specifically for you. What I cannot do is put it out there on the Internet teaching people about the thing and then turn around and selling them the thing.
Speaker 1:
And the other thing that you have to be super, super careful about is to not make any medical claims. You have to get crafty and cute when you're coming up with your names, like I have one that's a tincture that is sort of, you know, for those hot flashes and PMS-y things and where you don't feel good and you're all thatures, prevents, treats, anything. I just call it shark week and people kind of know what that means. I have one called snot nose. Can you figure that out, what that does? And so it's just little things like that. You have to be able to skirt around it and say it without saying it, and that way you're not making any medical claims. You always need to do your disclaimer that you're not a medical provider and that you should always seek the advice of a qualified medical provider. You know all of that good stuff and then you can. You know you can certainly make your stuff. You can make your tinctures, you can make your teas.
Speaker 1:
Just be super careful about tinctures because anything that has alcohol in it that is over 5% falls under the alcohol board and not the cottage food laws, not the food freedom laws in some states laws not the food freedom laws in some states. So just be aware of that, because it's the same with vanilla extract tinctures, anything that has a high proof of alcohol you just got to be careful with. And I'm not so sure about shipping that stuff across state lines. That kind of gets into a little more. I don't know if it's technically legal, so because that once you put it in the mail it becomes federal. So just always talk to your attorney wherever you are and find out if that sort of thing that you can do, if you can mail it or if you need to just provide it from your farm as a pickup or a delivery or local or whatever. But just kind of keep that in mind. That that's something that you need to be aware of.
Speaker 1:
If you want to process chickens in the state of Tennessee we can process up to 20,000 chickens without having to have inspection. Once you get over that number, then you become big potatoes, and they have. You know you have to submit yourself. I mean, you still have to if the health department wanted to come and inspect. You still have to submit to that sort of thing, but you don't have to be USDA inspected like you do. When you get to that large number of chickens Always just be super careful, be super clean. What you are required to do is put your farm name, your address, your phone number and the date that it was processed. I think in the state of Tennessee we are required to have a certified scale if you are going to sell things by the pound. So sometimes it's better to do small, medium, large and put a range like what your small chicken is, what your medium chicken is, what your large chicken is. I do label mine by the pound because I do have a certified scale. So that's sort of how I do that.
Speaker 1:
If you're getting into freeze-dried foods, you can ship that stuff. It is shelf-stable and anything that is shelf-stable that does not require refrigeration or to keep heated to maintain any particular temperature falls under the food freedom laws and the cottage food laws here in the state of Tennessee. So we can sell green beans we can sell as long as canned green beans. We can sell the freeze-dried food. It doesn't matter if it's eggs, milk, meat, whatever, it does not matter. If it is shelf-stable, then you are able to sell it and you are able to make a living from it.
Speaker 1:
Now, one thing I will say about selling canned goods, and I've said this before when I talked about the canning rebels, and so if you haven't heard that episode, let me just reiterate that if you knowingly use unsafe canning methods you, for instance, water bath, a low acid food, rather than pressure canning your low acid food and then you give that to someone or you sell that to someone and that someone gets sick or dies, you can be charged with manslaughter, manslaughter, prison. And I know that a lot of people have said my grandma did it, she was fine, Nobody ever died. Blah, blah, blah, blah. But all it takes is one time. That's just like driving drunk Lots of people drive drunk, but all it takes is one wreck where you kill somebody and you're going to prison. So just be real, real careful to document your stuff, to always keep up with, keep good food logs. You know that you can show that you, you know, did the very, very best that you can to keep your food as safe as possible for the consumer.
Speaker 1:
Now, if you're selling at somewhere like a farmer's market, something of that nature pretty much all of them, the farmer's markets require you to have what's called flip insurance and that is just a liability insurance that protects the market and protects you in case someone were to get sick or something were to happen. That's a super smart thing to do. You can always have some sort of liability rider on your farm insurance and just you know. And when you do herd shares or you do contracts with people, even if it's a farm share contract, a herd share contract, whatever it is you need to put in that contract and again, not an attorney just telling you what I do, this, this is strictly from personal experience Always put in your contract that what you're going to do. So you got to have some consideration what you're going to do and what they can expect from you and what you expect from them. But that also put in there what they, that they understand that there's always a risk If it's raw milk.
Speaker 1:
They need to sign that they understand that there is a risk associated with drinking raw milk. There is a risk associated with consuming home canned goods. There is a risk associated with anything. Everything there's a risk associated with driving your car to the bank. Everything there's a risk associated with driving your car to the bank, but because that's a decision that you make between yourself getting yourself from home to the bank you know you don't have to sign a contract with anybody for that, but you just have to make sure that people understand and, in return, you let them know that you are going to do your very, very best to keep the cleanest milk, the quickest chill temperature. You know you're going to take the utmost care to process those green beans for the right amount of time at the right amount of you know pressure and all of that good stuff. That you're going that you are keeping their health and their safety in mind as you're preparing food for them to consume. That's just the right thing to do. So as long as you're doing those things, though, and as long as it's not malicious and you're not just careless and doing things just for the sake of doing it and not caring about other people's health and thinking that you, you know more than you know than the other people who have said that it needs to be done this way or that way, then you're going to be fine and you should be fine, but just know there's always a risk associated with that as well, for the consumer and for the producer.
Speaker 1:
Um, I'm going to end it here. You need to think about whether or not you want to be an LLC with your farm or a sole proprietor. There are benefits and drawbacks to both, and that is something that you definitely need to speak to your attorney about and your accountant and whoever else is, you know, are your advisors on how you proceed with your business on your farm. But one of the things that I will say is an LLC does protect you from them being able to come after your personal assets in the event that there is a lawsuit, someone sues you for whatever, that there is a lawsuit, someone sues you for whatever, and if you have an LLC set up and they are doing business with that LLC, they can't come after your personal assets. They can't come after your personal car, your home, your bank accounts. They can only seize things that are in the name of the LLC. Now there is such thing as called piercing the corporate veil, which is possible depending on the situation. So just know that as well.
Speaker 1:
You are not completely and totally insulated by having a limited liability corporation or a regular corporation. It's not 100% foolproof. The downside to being an LLC, though, is if you need to sue someone for contract dispute or they sue you, you cannot represent yourself in court, at least not in the state of Tennessee, which I suspect. It's that way everywhere because you can't practice law without a license, and an LLC is not you, it's an entity, and so you cannot represent the entity in court. You can only represent yourself. You do have a right to show up in any court and represent yourself, but you can't represent the LLC, so you will always have to have an attorney going forward to show up in court for you to be there with you. You can file stuff to save yourself some money, work that out with your attorney, or whatever. When it comes to actually showing up in court, you have to have an attorney with you, so that is the downside.
Speaker 1:
The downside to being a sole proprietor is and I don't know about the tax implications, because that's not my forte I know there's tax implications on both sides, one way or another, but as far as the legal system goes, if you are a sole proprietor, you can show up and represent yourself. But at the same time, that opens you up to be able to be any of your assets is fair game across the board because it's you personally doing business with the person or with whoever. So just kind of keep that in mind. Sole proprietors there's a lot less paperwork, there's a lot less money involved. You don't have to file you know all of that LLC stuff every year and you don't have to pay fees and you can have a you know any bank account, as long as it's a separate bank account that you, you know, don't commingle funds and all that kind of stuff. So just kind of keep that in mind and be sure to talk to you know your attorney and your accountant and see what works best for you. But just always know that do the best you can and talk to your attorney about ways that you might be able to be creative if there's something that you really want to sell or really want to provide to the community and the law might be set up against you. Just know that sometimes it just takes a little creativity. But with that, I hope that you enjoyed today's podcast.
Speaker 1:
This is something that's near and dear to my heart, because I care so much about freedom. I care so much about my community and my neighbors and my children and my children's children and my great-grandchildren all being able to live life the way that they want to live it and to feed themselves and to not ever have to do anything, no matter what it or something against their moral standards, something against their religious standards, something against the way that they want to eat, the way they want to feed themselves, their nutrition choices I don't care what it is. You have the right to make your own decisions. You have the right to decide what's in your life, what you're going to. You know you have to tolerate pretty much everything, but you don't have to accept everything, and so and you have that right you have that right to like who you want to like, to not like who you don't want to like. You know, and you have the right to allow someone into your home and not let someone else into your home. That's your home, that's your right. That's your. That's your right. That's your kitchen and you make the decisions in your kitchen.
Speaker 1:
So thank you so much for tuning in. Like I said, I hope you've enjoyed today's topic. If you like the podcast, it would be great if you could subscribe and leave a review. It helps other people to find our podcast and you can find us on all the socials at thegormhomesteadcom. Whatever you have got on the docket today, remember y'all, keep it real. See y'all a guitar picker playing all the local clubs and my mama was a waitress where they'd park M18 with a truss. We didn't have much money. Times were kinda hard, living in a trailer on the edge of Grandpa's farm. Yeah, I may not come from much, but I've got just enough. As long as my baby's in my arms and the good Lord knows what's in my heart. I refuse to be ashamed. It's just a sudden thing.