Success At The Local Level

Imagine the collective strength of Christian leaders uniting to bolster the backbone of our communities with the enduring values of faith. That's precisely what unfolds as I, Tim Webb, join forces with John Davies, Tressy Rourke, and Suzanne Flamer, each leader in their respective fields. Together, we look into the essentials of creating a system of unity and purpose, from the pews to the school board meetings. This powerhouse discussion promises to inspire and equip you with the wisdom to nurture a vibrant Christian presence in your everyday spheres of influence.

Jon Davies, Tressy Rourke, and Suzanne Flamer are more than just guests; they are catalysts for change who offer an authentic look at the challenges and triumphs of leading with conviction. As we converse, you'll witness how trust and transparency become the cornerstones of impactful community groups and the transformative potential that springs from embracing opportunities for action. Witness the inception of Moms for America in Washington County and grasp the strategies to galvanize your local community towards positive change, one faithful step at a time.

Yet, the journey doesn't shy away from the grittier paths of leadership. We confront the stark realities of moral decay and the hard-fought battles in public discourse. We rally behind the church's crucial involvement in politics and the unity that can be forged when faith communities come together to support neighbors and shape the future. This episode is a call to those ready to stand firm, speak truth, and advance the mission of Christ in Texas and beyond. Join us as we celebrate stories of resilience, unity, and the unwavering mission to lead with a servant's heart.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Hello everyone. My name is Tim Webb and I am the founder of the Texas Leadership Summit, and we are here today with a special group of people, friends of mine but also co-labors in the kingdom. We have John Davies who is with Texas Church Leaders, and we also have Tressy Rourke who's with Moms for America, and then we have Suzanne Flamer, to my right, who is with Sizzens United for Brunham Schools, and so what is unique about today is that well, let me back up in our purpose at TLS our desires to empower everyday leaders with courage, hope and tools to ignite a revival of Christian leadership. And so what we've had happen in our local community is that, just out of this awareness and this desire to encourage everyday leaders in our community, there have been the result of that is different. People have banded together having just a passion to advance the kingdom, stand for the Christian values and their faith and to do something to present solutions within our community to answer the problems in everyday life, whether it be at the school board, the school district, public school district, whether it be Moms concerned about the future of their children and addressing everyday issues in our local community, texas church leaders, the pastors coming together, the big C church if you will coming together to stand for our faith values. And so out of that, we've seen some things happen in our local community here in Brunham, texas, and we want to encourage people outside of our community, outside of our county, to say that you can do this right where you are in your county.

Speaker 1: 1:48

And we're a firm believer at Texas Leadership Summit that if we focus at the local level, if we get 10% of our leaders stepping forward with their faith values, we believe that others will come along beside them and join in the battle to stand for our faith. And it is our hope that when we do that, we can ignite a revival of Christian leadership within our state. We know that we can do it county by county and if we just focus on our county, encourage other counties and, before you know it, we know that we can take our state with our faith values. And so I just want to say thank you to each one of you. I know you personally and I've seen part of the battle, part of the fight. There's been a lot that has gone on that I haven't seen and I want to thank you for sharing what you've been a part of, and so with that, I want to ask we'll start with you, John, this is a question for all three of you but what inspired you to take a stand?

Speaker 2: 2:48

So as a local pastor here, one of the things that does weigh on you over time is you're a shepherd and you're caring for your community. You're seeing the things that are troubling people. You're seeing the things that are problems in the community. You get to hear about their families and what their hurts and hangups are. And after serving as a pastor, really what got meagling was there's a greater need here in our community for the church to be the church, and we are a small community comprised of lots of smaller sized churches. You don't have Preston wood or anything like that here in our backyard. I mean Brennham, texas, is about 17,000 people give or take for the city limits, so it's a small town and a lot of small churches. But we can get together and do more when we are willing to say hey, let's cooperate. So for me, the catalyst to say you know, let's really figure out how to do that was John 17 and looking at Jesus' prayer for his disciples, he prayed that they would be one, as he and the father were one, so that the world would believe that the father sent him. And so there's evidence of Jesus' deity being the son of God. That's manifest and bears witness through our willing to work together.

Speaker 2: 3:58

Now there's a lot of things you have to sort through as a local church to work together with other churches, and, figuring all that out, we seem to make two steps forward and one step back and repeat that process over and over. But it started with just a bunch of guys willing to get together and say, hey, you know what, I need to pray for you and you need to pray for me, because we are co-laboring in this community together and there's far too much ministry here for me to take on myself, and so there needs to be a willingness for guys to come together who are willing to say I'm not going to be territorial, I'm not going to be a silo ministry and that's your silo and this is my silo. But I know that in the America I grew up in, that was a pretty common expression for churches. We have to learn. If you're going to look at doing this in your community, in your county, you've got to find those churches that realize there's a bigger battle that needs to be fought Right.

Speaker 1: 4:52

And time to come together. Thank you, that's a big amen. Yes, tresi, how about you with Moms for America and just what you've been a part of, what inspired you to do something, to get involved?

Speaker 3: 5:06

Well, for me, it was just noticing that there are so many moms out there that feel like they're alone, that don't feel like their voice can be heard, and so I felt like just if we could get this group together, then we could all have that one voice and we could all be heard. And so I said yes, not really knowing what it would look like or anything, but I just knew that the Lord was calling me to say yes and take that, that step of faith. Just take that step, and then he would do the rest.

Speaker 1: 5:48

And it was very exciting when Moms for America came to Brenham and the big event first initial event and seeing Moms fired up it was incredible. It was kind of intimidating too, but there was a lot of inspiration in that moment. So it's been great.

Speaker 4: 6:04

So, suzanne, I'll follow through because I came through by way of Moms for America the things that inspired me. I've been in student and child ministry since 1995 and I've watched the decline in the schools and, like Tresi said, there are so many of us that don't know what we can do, but we're very upset about it and praying and knowing that somehow God has a way for us to do it. So when you put on your first TLS at the high school and brought in these national speakers and it just gave us a feeling that we can do this, we can do this together. And then from that, the second one was when you had your education pillar, that's when Kimberly Fletcher came with Moms for America and hearing her describe what was going on in schools all over the America and what they were able to do by coming together, uniting and just knowing that could be something for us too.

Speaker 1: 7:02

So that was a huge inspiration for me. I think specifically Citizens United for Brim schools now, because you are a part of Moms for America. But Citizens United, that inspiration, I mean that's taken a whole, that's taken another step as well. You're very intentional about it. What inspired you to do that? We formed.

Speaker 4: 7:22

Citizens United for Brim schools, in partnership with the Texas church leaders, moms for America, europe church itself champion, and also TLS, and that was a large group of citizens. Plus, our student motto, or what is it mascot at the high school is Cubs. So we took that name and said the most appropriate thing is we're citizens who pay the taxes, have the children. We're working on campus all the time, we care about the schools, and at that time a lot of people weren't sure how to show how they cared about the school, so seemed the most appropriate way to do it.

Speaker 1: 8:03

That's great, that's great. My next question has to do with her faith. Now, your initial response might be well duh, obviously, but in the stand that you've taken, how does your faith play a role in this? How's it played a role in this? John, you're a pastor, I'm a pastor, so we could we could tap a number of pastors, but I'm talking to you as an individual, each one of you as an individual. How does your personal faith move you to start these groups and be apart?

Speaker 2: 8:37

I'll start. I think the biggest thing is just realizing that we've got a mission and Jesus left us here to continue his ministry. The great commission is to go and make disciples. That's going to take place in a lot of different ways and it's going to certainly be expressed in different ways within the different organizations that are here, but the biggest thing that we realize is that that is the greatest calling that we have For me as far as personal faith and like how that plays a role.

Speaker 2: 9:07

You know, if it weren't for my dependence on God in the process, I don't know that I could do that and I don't think any of us could. But I look at just stories that have come up over the last two years, since we've been doing this now, where the devil does rear his head up and he wants to get you discouraged and he wants to get you to throw the towel in, and it's the continual, continual practice of going back to the Lord and just saying God, I need you, I need you, and he shows up time and time again, often at the last second you know he's, he's rarely early, never late.

Speaker 2: 9:44

But that's our God and it's just seeing how he does do things and opens doors after you've been praying. And we've had lots of stories like that just in the last couple of years, where we were banging our head against the wall saying, Lord, we want something to move here, and then all of a sudden a wide open door opens up and all of a sudden it's like the floodgates are open and blessings pouring out. So you do have to go back to the Lord. You're not going to do it in your own strength. You just you can't.

Speaker 1: 10:11

Yeah, amen, thank you. Thank you, john, did I say, or Susan. However, we can just keep going down the road If you want.

Speaker 3: 10:19

Well, for me, no-transcript. I just feel like we've all been called to something more and to do something more, and I know that the Lord has called me for something great and something good. And where that starts was an open door at the Texas Leadership Summit back in October of 2022. And so whenever I first volunteered there at that summit and just feeling that tug, the Holy Spirit just tugging at me saying you need to do something more.

Speaker 3: 11:01

You've got to step out. You've got to do more. There are souls at cost here and each of us have the duty to actually go out and be that witness.

Speaker 1: 11:19

So you're not just trying, you just don't have an agenda to accomplish certain bring forth solutions. You're thinking Kingdom. As we're talking through this, we're thinking Kingdom driven, kingdom oriented.

Speaker 3: 11:29

Oh, kingdom mindset. It's all about the Kingdom and we have got to put our own agenda and to put our own personal hangups to the side, because there is a greater picture.

Speaker 1: 11:48

Thank you, Suzanne. You've been a faith follower. I mean, Lord has been a part of your life for a long time. So how's your faith? I have to limit you in this because you've got a lot of stories. But thank you for your patience.

Speaker 4: 12:02

stories no, no it's just so wonderful to be able to explain. But, in a nutshell, you both brought up the Holy Spirit. I was teaching a Bible study on the Holy Spirit, which tremendously convicted me, but at the same time I knew I could not do what we've accomplished unless I prayed to the Spirit every time and ask him not to do miracles but to control me, to help me learn how to love people in spite of their political points of views and their attitudes about things that are sometimes not very logical. The verse that kept playing them in my mind was, over and over again suffer not the little children to come unto me, and that is that whatever we do on earth matters only if it impacts the kingdom of heaven, living on earth in that spiritual kingdom that Christ has given us and the fact that he's there with us, no matter how dark or difficult it gets to be.

Speaker 1: 13:05

That's good. That's good stuff. Well, let's move into, if we could, because I know we're going to have some people as we're walking through this conversation. They're going OK, yeah, but get to the to do list. Many of us like our to do list, but what were some of the actual steps that you walked through to start the group? I know this may be. I mean, it doesn't have to be in a certain order, so you may just share one or two and we can back and forth on. Hey, this is a good thing to remember that kind of thing. How do we, how did you actually start it?

Speaker 2: 13:36

Yeah, so ours is a long story.

Speaker 2: 13:40

So our groups, 10 plus years in the making and it started with just local pastors here realizing we do need to pray for each other, and it was building the just genuine authentic relationship and over time, as you're investing in each other. And you know, our ministry is unique and different versus y'all's in that it's really geared for senior pastors to get together and pray for each other but also look at launching events for the community together. But the level of trust needs to be there. If you don't trust the other guys who are in the room, who are senior leadership, senior pastors at their churches, whether it's because of their character or the doctrine or whatever else might be, given you kind of some pause, you're not going to be able to really break bread to that extent that you need to to get this kind of ministry up and running in your community.

Speaker 2: 14:29

And so for us it was a lot of just building relationship over time, seeing the Lord work in each other's lives. And then the Texas Leadership Summit was a catalyst because it was at that moment when we as a group who had already been getting together for years at that point said you know, what we do need to get a little bit more formal, we need to think through what we are doing and we need to be get intentional, and so getting some people to come alongside of us was a big part of that process, because local pastors are not administrators often, tim you can probably attest to that Amen, so so so getting a few people who have the gift of administration that saw what we were doing and saw our heart and said you know what I want to help with that?

Speaker 2: 15:13

And just realizing that God has put giftings around us, that even in doing something like a group of local pastors gathering, you have resources that you don't even realize are there. You might just need to ask and see who all of a sudden comes alongside of you and it begins to support what you're doing. Because you don't have the bandwidth. Trust me, you don't Right To do this type of a ministry. You need God to bring people alongside that can be the hands and feet to help.

Speaker 1: 15:40

Would you say, even being willing to ask for help.

Speaker 2: 15:42

Oh, yeah, big thing for pastors. Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 15:45

Leaders, christian leaders any Christian leader, I think say ask for help, allow people to help.

Speaker 2: 15:50

Yes, yeah you have to ask for help, and then, and then you just I have a phrase in ministry the low hanging fruit. And it's, of course you think of Adam and Eve, but the low hanging fruit. So we're talking about that.

Speaker 2: 16:01

The low hanging fruit ministry is what is God placed right before you? That is a blessing that you can partake in, and sometimes it means just opening the door to your church and ministering people who are your neighbor. Sometimes it's doing things that you realize we've got a unique wiring amongst the congregation and we can do something with that. That's going to be really cool and different from other churches. But when it comes to your community and other other churches in your community, you look at what's there and you say, ok, what can we pull off for the sake of this community? And so that's what we've been doing as we kind of began putting the building blocks together. Was we just looked for that low hanging fruit? What are the problems that we can address? What are the wins that we can begin aiming for? And then who can we bring alongside of us to help us get there?

Speaker 1: 16:45

I think each one of you at some point. This is kind of an administrative side of it. But with communication, you've got website development. You've got communications that have to be a part of so, keeping keeping those things in mind, what would you do? Anything you want to add to that?

Speaker 4: 17:01

as far as development, because yours is very, I won't say mine was stepped after there, so let them let Tressie go, because I came after.

Speaker 3: 17:10

Tressie OK so for me. I first volunteered that October at Texas Leadership Summit and then the following February whenever Texas Leadership Summit helped bring in Moms for America, the Mom Rise event. That's whenever I first really thought, oh some, let me, let me see what's going on with this group. I like what they stand for, I really like this, the way that they are presenting themselves and everything. And so after that I kept thinking and praying on it and saying, lord, you know, this is a wonderful organization. What do we need to do? What do we need to do? And so after a couple of weeks I can't bear it says we need one in Washington County, we need a Moms for America group in Washington County. So I called the National Organization to find out if anybody had started a group, because I just knew that, based on everybody's reaction that February in that Mom Rise event, that there was already a group and I was just left behind, right?

Speaker 1: 18:29

You just mean to be in the know, right?

Speaker 3: 18:33

Nobody had started a group, and so I was talking to Zaheda and I said you know what? Let's stop talking about it. Sign me up, I will start the group, I will say yes and I know others will come alongside. So again, it was just taking that step, that that first little step of faith, and saying yes.

Speaker 1: 18:59

Yeah, I'll be a part, Sign me up.

Speaker 3: 19:01

That was my, that was my.

Speaker 1: 19:03

Let me just say, for an action item or those who love the to do list, as you located the group that you wanted to be a part of, like minded, like hearted within, that once you contacted them Did they have steps already mapped out so you didn't have to reinvent the wheel.

Speaker 3: 19:18

Right. They already had onboarding processes that we could, we could go through. They already had resources available that we could pass out to our moms and and even our dads that are supporting us, because, even though it says moms for America, we do absolutely love our dads, our fathers, the men that come along and support as well.

Speaker 1: 19:43

And, as we're talking about this, I know there's a sense. You probably felt this as well. There can be a sense of overwhelming sense or feeling what am I getting involved with? I mean, I don't even know where to begin, and so, as our leaders are looking at this and bringing this into their local community, I want to remind them we don't always have to reinvent the wheel, john. I've heard you say that many times. Let's don't try to reinvent the wheel. So thank you for that, and these organizations have the ability to help jumpstart those things. So, suzanne, citizens Cubs.

Speaker 4: 20:14

Citizens Cubs was born out of the Moms for America move. In that Tresi, after I don't know a month or two, said we need a school district ambassador. Would you like to do that? And and I was one of those that was waiting for somebody to start Moms for America. So just as a lesson there, a lot of times we sit and wait too long and then we wonder why nobody did anything and then nobody does anything. So somebody that I was about to try to start it when Tresi did. So don't wait too long, I was saying, just jump for it.

Speaker 4: 20:49

Citizens United came out of my being school district ambassador, which meant Moms for America has a whole program. They trained, they've got great training and it. During their presentation here they described a lot of it. We knew who to talk to At this time. We were having a lot of problem with their local school board. We knew there were some legality problems and Kelly Cole's came as part of that Moms for America and she spoke a lot about her experience and how they accomplished a lot of problems. So Kelly became my new best friend for about three months and she was wonderful. She helped so much and that is another huge encourager is that if you go somewhere where somebody else has already put a lot in place, you've got the resources that you would really it would take so long to be able to develop on your own.

Speaker 1: 21:40

So let me ask this question, just for those who are, as they're watching this again, they're thinking through okay, our community, we wanna do something. Are you all available for them to reach out now, through TLS, we're gonna put people's links. We probably, in moving forward, we're gonna continue to have links where people can just connect with you. Would they be able to talk to you individually? Sure, okay.

Speaker 2: 22:03

Yeah, absolutely, and I'll piggyback real quick.

Speaker 2: 22:08

Suzanne mentioned you don't wanna wait and then all of a sudden realize, well, nothing gets done, especially if you're starting from scratch.

Speaker 2: 22:16

So you all were starting from kind of a leaping point where there was already work that was done.

Speaker 2: 22:21

We had built relationships here, which was a big catalyst for really getting us going. But the one thing that I will say is you have to have a mindset. And the mindset is and at least for me, as I was talking with other guys and asking them will you consider joining us with Texas Church Leaders the mindset is Jesus is coming back and we don't have much time, amen. And so there's a sense of urgency that has to be present if you're gonna pull off something in your community and it can not only be you, it must be those that you're pulling around with you to say you need to join me in this, you need to get with me in this, help me with this, because Jesus is coming back and we don't have time. And unless there's a sense of urgency that you can convey through your heart, through your communication, through your actions, you are gonna be struggling to get anything going because you're gonna be waiting for someone else to be showing that sense of urgency, and it might not be there.

Speaker 1: 23:26

All right. I think it's a great reminder as well, and we know this with leadership, someone is going to pay for leadership. Either a great leader will pay the price to discipline themselves and walk through what is necessary to lead well, or the followers will pay for failed leadership, and we know failed leadership costs lives. So, to speak to that urgency, I think is very important that failed leadership costs lives. Lives are being impacted every day, for the good and the evil, and so, as we remind mothers and fathers, you're leading your children either to Christ or away from Christ, and so time is of the essence. So, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 24:10

So just one more thing, because it's on my mind and I'll forget if I don't say it, but looking at where our nation has gone over the last five, six years and the trajectory where we are with morality and with all these other things, the reason that these organizations are now stepping forward and becoming so much more bold is because we are realizing that darkness is creeping into greater and greater extents, into every corner of our society. For me, as a pastor, I realize what leads to brokenness in my church family, and if I can stop that ahead of time, then you better believe I'm gonna fight to stop it before it grows into a bigger problem. You gotta cut the cancer before it spreads. And the problem with sin and where our nation has gone is we're now legalizing all forms of it and we're promoting it even and the end of Romans one talks about that they are not only those who do it, but those who celebrate, those who do it right, those who have had their minds darkened. We're seeing it.

Speaker 2: 25:09

And so the question that certainly pastors have to have and I would say not just pastors, but churches, christians, those who've been bought by the blood of the Lamb you have to ask yourself if not now, when? If you're not going to make a stand now, then when? And you have to be willing to say to your point I gotta pay that price and there is a price to pay. And as someone who steps forward, you have to be willing to be misunderstood for what you're doing, because you know in your heart that you're doing it for your Lord and Savior, for the right reasons.

Speaker 3: 25:47

I'll just say you have to have a little bit of thick skin. Honestly, you cannot wear your emotions right here on your shoulder because you're gonna get them hurt and otherwise because, like he was saying, you can be misunderstood. Whenever you're speaking and trying to tell somebody your passion, that can come across completely wrong and they'll just throw a barrier up and don't even wanna listen to you at that point.

Speaker 1: 26:20

Well, that's a great segue into just something else I wanted us to talk about or talk through. Did you get a chance to? I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 4: 26:30

That's okay.

Speaker 1: 26:31

No, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4: 26:32

Only because I wanted to build on a couple of things that you said, john, in order for me to get the attention of the community. I had it cost me, but I so wanted everybody to understand how deep the problems were. So I did a 40 minute presentation and brought out every skeleton I could, because I was trying to create the Titanic that got everybody's attention. Whether they agreed with me or not, they knew then there was a serious problem. And until I'm billing on Tresi, until you're willing to do that, to take that kind of risk and research everything you need to know and then put it all out there, you can't really help.

Speaker 4: 27:12

It's gonna take major reactions to change the things that are going in our society. And what I think moves people the most it certainly does me is Matthew 25, what's being done to the innocents? What's being done to the homeless? We have huge populations of children in our schools now that are from single parent families. They're economically disadvantaged and they're out of control. In our public schools the teachers are going crazy and a lot of them are quitting. It is a Titanic, and that's not the only problem I recognize. But that's what you have to do.

Speaker 1: 27:49

Well, this is a way into some of the challenges, specific challenges, for you. I know that this was an easy thing to do as we've walked through this. We've discussed it, shared about it, but some of the challenges that specifically you faced and at some point, if you feel, led to address one of the greatest challenges, I think, is fear, and we're a faith people, not a fear driven people, at least not supposed to be, but that can, in and of itself, could be a challenge. So what are some of your personal challenges that you experienced along the way?

Speaker 4: 28:31

You wanna go first Me? Yeah, go for it. Okay, yay, I had a lot of fear about stepping on toes, particularly because I was stepping on a lot of political toes in the community and so I have a target on my back. But, as they said, we always do so I had some fear about that because it's a conflict with the spirit. I have to remind the Lord that I'm Irish. I need help. I take things personally, I let my anger get out of control and I fear that more I think than anything else, because I don't want to break relationships with people.

Speaker 4: 29:10

The Lord wants us to be able to still love, even when we're pushing very hard, and I think that was one of my biggest fears. And yes, that can create conflict.

Speaker 1: 29:19

At the local level. We all know each other. In the local community. We're still doing life together.

Speaker 4: 29:24

Right, right. So that was one of my greatest fears. Well for me.

Speaker 3: 29:30

I don't tend to fear man. I fear what my Lord is going to say to me whenever I stand there before him. That's my driving force.

Speaker 1: 29:49

So the challenge, though, but some of the challenges starting, I mean, that's a huge encouragement. I don't see that as a challenge. I say, you know, because you've kind of processed that and you've got it in the right frame of mind, so, but how is what are some of the challenges, though, that you may have faced?

Speaker 3: 30:05

But as far as that is so a lot of times, as as a woman, you know, I want people to like me. But at this point in the game, you know, it's not about whether you like me or you don't. It's about whether or not I'm going to tell you the truth and that's something that you're always going to give the truth from me, and it may hurt your feelings, it may upset you, but I have to stand on that and that's one of my fears. Like, okay, if I tell this person something or I say something, are they going to be mad at me? And then at that point I'd have to go back to pray, praying about it.

Speaker 1: 30:54

You know, I think you kind of flip this because, while it's not a challenge for you, the other person who's receiving the information because I know you all give out a lot of information so one of the challenges in that light to frame it correctly would be that they receive the truth, they receive the information with a heart that's ready to engage, rather than whoa, wait a minute, I don't think I want to go there.

Speaker 3: 31:18

Not everybody is ready to accept or to even hear the truth.

Speaker 1: 31:23

Okay, so that is a great challenge to overcome. How about you, john?

Speaker 2: 31:27

Yeah, I'll echo some things. So Texas church leaders, when we do the low hanging fruit opportunities, you know one of the things that we saw, that was a very easy one for us. You know we are affirm, all of our church's firm believers and the inerrancy and inspiration of God's word, and because of that we see the Bible very clear cut on matters of gender and sexuality. We had a drag show a few years coming here to Brenham, Texas, and, to your point, you want to speak truth but you also want to make sure you're loving in the process. You're trying to communicate, you know, without fear.

Speaker 2: 32:03

And so one of the things that we did was we consulted, we confronted city council. I was going to say we consulted city council. We didn't consult them. We confronted them and we said, hey, this is not a healthy activity to take place in any sense, but let alone without any restriction on minors and where things are being placed and located in things of that nature in downtown. And so I confronted city council on that and at the end of my little two minutes or whatever that they gave me, I said you might think that we who are standing up now and expressing this hate those people, but nothing could be further from the truth or heartbreaks from, because we realize that we were where they are before we found salvation in Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2: 32:49

We struggled with sin not necessarily the same sins but we were held captive to those and we pray that we would have the opportunity to share the gospel with those who are going to be here for this event. And so we had protests and it's difficult because the ideology of the day is feeling as king. Whatever my feelings say, that's what I have to bend the knee toward, and whatever your feelings say, that's what you need to make other people bend the knee toward. And the hard, cold truth is I'm sorry, but feelings are completely secondary to what God says and what his standards are. Your feelings are going to lead you astray nine times out of well, 10 times out of 10 times.

Speaker 1: 33:32

Is. Your heart is exceedingly wicked, that's right.

Speaker 3: 33:34

Right Just be full in all its ways. Yes, we know that we can understand it.

Speaker 2: 33:37

But the problem is is that, as a pastor, you're going to be battling ideologies in your ministry? You're going to be battling ideologies on your church members who are coming into the church, you're going to be battling ideologies on your governing board. And that's where the rubber meets the road, because you as a pastor, as a man of God, as a spiritual leader, have to say either I will stand for what God's word says here and it doesn't matter what the topic is, set aside, the gender and sexuality but I will either stand for what God's word says or I will bend the knee to the ideology of the day. And if we don't do it now, again when Right? So when you look at this and the biggest challenges, I think certainly relationships are a big part of the challenge, because you do have lots of people that we know, that we love, that we care about, whether it's family, friends, church members who are buying into ideologies that are not grounded in God's word. We have people that we know and I'll raise this.

Speaker 2: 34:38

You know what's the challenge that kind of caught you off guard the spiritual attacks. There were spiritual attacks that manifested in physical ways in my own family and I had family members getting just sick, and I mean just things happening that you, if I would tell you, stop and pause and say wait a second. We need to take a time out for this one but clear spiritual attack. I mean even to the point where you're seeing affliction coming in from Satan saying I don't want you to be successful in this, and it manifests itself when you step out on faith and so get prayed up because the challenges that are going to hit you and kind of catch you off guard are going to be those that come in the spiritual nature and all of a sudden you realize there is a greater battle taking place and if I do stand for truth here, I'm going to be a target, yeah.

Speaker 3: 35:32

You get weary.

Speaker 1: 35:34

Yes.

Speaker 3: 35:35

You become very weary at times, but then something will happen, or somebody will call you up and get that encouragement, and so you keep going, you take that other step. Take another step.

Speaker 1: 35:51

Yeah, you look like you want to say something. Well, I'm billing on. John.

Speaker 4: 35:59

The battle is hard. Ours was outside of the churches but we depended on the church to help us. It was really hard to put together an organization that would want to find file a petition against our local school district. That took a lot of courage, but people were so angry at that point and there was a condition that there are an existing power struggle and also corruption that was going on and we knew the longer we stood by and watched, the worse it was going to go. So we made that decision and we got a lot of harassment.

Speaker 4: 36:35

But we got so many good feedback from so many people that said thank us for doing this, for stepping up, because it needed to be done. And in the end what we learned from that is sometimes you have to do the bad thing first before you can get the good thing done. We fought after we got the petition signed. We found all the local governments, including all the way the state level. We're very grateful that we did what we did. We never dreamed we'd get that kind of feedback and encouragement the other thing did. It got us the kind of attention to where the school district could let us do anything we wanted to to help the kids. So you want to start a tutoring program? Excellent, come on in. We love it. Whatever makes you happy.

Speaker 1: 37:22

Let me open the door for us. Let me ask you to clarify something, because you said you got to do the bad before you can do the good. Are you saying the difficult things?

Speaker 4: 37:29

You've got to do the hard things. You did do something wrong, did you? Thank you for clarifying no, no, no, the better word would have been the very, very unpopular thing first, before you can get.

Speaker 1: 37:41

I knew what you meant, but I wanted to give you an opportunity to clarify that.

Speaker 4: 37:44

Thank you for saving me, Pastor.

Speaker 1: 37:48

So, but I'm not hearing you mention politics, I'm not hearing you mention Democrat versus Republican. I'm not hearing anything about those things that people now again, I'm in the same community and I'm playing devil's advocate here to some extent, because I know at different times you've had people that would say, hey, I'm all for you making a stand, but why are you getting political? I mean and I think this is important to address because absolutely we have a lot of people that when you, when you pull them aside and you talk about your faith and standing for Christ, you get amen, amen, amen, amen. And then all of a sudden you go into the public arena with solutions, making a stand, and have you? Have you ran into those things?

Speaker 2: 38:40

Yeah, I'll chime in real quick, so go ahead, I've I. This is part of my regular line that I give when I talk about Texas church leaders, and that very thing will come up. You know why are you guys standing on this or this or this? Doesn't that then get into politics? And the way that I express it is pastors have been told and I know that I've heard this a number of times since I've served as a pastor, and it's the old adage stay in your lane, stay in your lane.

Speaker 2: 39:08

The reality is is that the culture has moved into the lane of the church and the role that the church has had to have in speaking to the moral issues of the day and God's word is the ultimate authority on the moral issues of the day, and so it's not that I've changed lanes, it's that politics and morality from the culture have now merged into and I'm trying to hold the lane.

Speaker 2: 39:30

And so, as the church, as the body of Christ, we are a priesthood of believers we ought to be able to say God's word and gives us great wisdom, great direction, great instruction on this. This is not a Republican versus Democrat, left versus right. This is a right versus wrong, not on my opinion, and not on my feeling or your feeling, but on God's word, and if we can get the understanding that there is an objective right and wrong, which is a huge battle which we could spiral into a conversation on that. But the reality is that we all who are here on stage do believe that God's word is inspired and inherent, hence why we are taking a stand for the things that are, and so you need to be able to see those believers in your community who share that conviction with you and say man, guys, it's time. It's time for us to do this for our neighborhoods and for our community.

Speaker 4: 40:26

I've got two things I'd like to say. First thing is I teach Bible studies. So I had a conversation like this with a pastor's wife at her house for a luncheon the other day and she said I just really don't, I'm not comfortable with bringing politics into it. Because people had asked me about who I was going to vote for and I said I understand them, but two things. The temple was where Jesus took a bullet or whip. It was not a church only that's where the Sanhedrin was. That was the government. Jesus took a bullet whip not once, but twice. Also, all of our founding fathers were Christians, devout Christians. That's why we have an unbelievable constitution. You can't get any more political than where they were. The third thing I want to add is something like 25 million evangelical Christians did not vote in the last election. We are where we are today Like you're talking about lanes because Christians did not stand up for godly leadership, professing Christians who wanted to run for office.

Speaker 1: 41:29

Yeah, did you want to add something to this?

Speaker 3: 41:31

I just, I just told mommas and others that right now it's not about whether you're a Republican, a Democrat, a liberal, a Tea Party, whatever you want to be. It's about helping the children and helping those that cannot help themselves, because right now it's the next generation. The enemy has come after our children. He's come after our next generation Absolutely, and that's where we have to take the stand on what's right and what's wrong. And if we're not willing to do that, and if the pastors and other leaders in these other communities are not willing to fight for those kids and fight for that next generation, then they might as well just put their hands up and say I'm sorry, I'm done, you know then stop complaining, that's right.

Speaker 4: 42:28

Do anything.

Speaker 2: 42:28

There's a number of instances in scripture where we can look at different ways that God used people to address the political figures of the day. You think of Daniel and how he went and was able to be a spokesman for the Lord in a very powerful way. You look at Joseph in Egypt. You look at others, even Jesus. When he gives the illustration of building, knowing that the cost of building a tower, he's referencing a failed project that the Romans had done. So there's different things that take place in scripture where those people of faith, those who are people of faith, are clearly involved in the world around them. Our faith is not divorced from certain areas of our lives, god's Lord of all at all, and so all of our lives, including things that we look at politically, because we're all called to be citizens, we're all called to be stewards of the things that are here, that are entrusted to us. We can't divorce our faith from those areas, and so to think that somehow a Christian or even a pastor so should somehow be completely apolitical is really ignorant.

Speaker 1: 43:31

He's not really understanding scripture. Yes, okay, you wanted to add to that One other thing, I'm a researcher.

Speaker 4: 43:39

I went back and researched all of the Supreme Court decisions that have affected the change, going back to the 1950s and 60s, when prayer was taken out of our school, when Bible teaching was allowed, up until, I think, the late 50s, maybe early 60s, and then they started taking away the rights for teachers to even talk about it or to have books. We did nothing. The church did nothing for the last 70 years. We did nothing about them dismantling the godly education that we had, the public education.

Speaker 1: 44:15

So again, god's people go in silent specifically the pastors.

Speaker 1: 44:20

And so we know that the shepherds you've mentioned this, john, many times in the public arena we are called to be shepherds. Shepherds not only with our congregations, but within our community. And so really, to put it in a nutshell, there is no for the believer, there is no secular versus sacred. All of life is sacred, and I had a good friend who made this statement Actually it's more of a question. He asked me, tim, did God redeem all of your life, every area of your life, or just part of it? And so, before you were a believer, were you a citizen? Absolutely, you know, and so we just talked about that. And so we do not all of a sudden no longer.

Speaker 1: 45:01

Once we're a citizen of heaven doesn't mean we're no longer citizen here on earth, and so we could go down this trail for a long time, and, but I think for the most part, we have had pastors who have been afraid to make a stand and preach and teach the full counsel of God's Word. Thus we have churches that have gone silent and they don't take their faith into their community. So, which is why we're here today, I want to kind of bring some things to a more of a celebrity or a celebratory point. The impact, the wins what are some? Because we have a lot of challenges and I'm very, you know, those are my buttons. I want to help people, empower people to be leaders, but I would like for them to hear some of the impact, some of the wins that you've been a part of, that really have just encouraged you to keep on going. What are some of those things?

Speaker 4: 45:58

Well, I mentioned, today was our first day to start the tutoring program, which was ended before COVID and so many schools, when they locked down, stopped many of those programs to help kids. It took changing superintendents for us to be able to do that, but it doesn't matter, god. God made the path, and it's just such a joy to see many of the citizens that we worked with before come forward and say I want to be a tutor, I care about these kids, and so we were overwhelmed with how many we got. More than we thought. Billy Fowler, my partner and I in Cubs really worked hard. At first we couldn't get anybody and then, all of a sudden, the Lord started answering prayer. So you know, eventually he'll come. He will come if it's his will. So the teachers, the principals, everybody has told us how much they appreciate it. It just feels so good to know that you could take something that was a fight fighting zone and make it a community coming together activity.

Speaker 1: 47:03

That's a huge transition for Cubs. Because, as you, said earlier, you were doing the hard work.

Speaker 4: 47:07

We were the antagonists.

Speaker 1: 47:08

Yes, and now we're the heroes, and it feels, so good on this side. It was worth the fight. Great, Great Tracy some of your wins.

Speaker 3: 47:19

So some of our wins. I started Washington County Moms for America as a group off of the National Moms for America and with that at first I was trying to think, oh, what can we do? What can we do? And, you know, trying to get this together. And then the Holy Spirit was just so sweet and he says, just work with others. I was like, oh well, duh you know, that's simple.

Speaker 3: 47:53

Yeah, work with others, and so what we started doing was coming alongside other nonprofits and other organizations. Yes, a couple of those that we've worked with is the Gathering Grace, the community dinner that's on Monday evenings. Moms for America, washington County, has gone over and we've helped serve the food. We've been part of their hands and feet in that ministry. Our daughter's house, the group that helps the young ladies that are aging out of foster care in Texas. They had a large gala in November. Washington County Moms for America came alongside them and were extra hands and feet at that gala to help serve. And so we're just looking for other organizations that are like-minded and that want to help the community. We don't have to reinvent the wheel, and that's what I was trying to do at the beginning, and so just let me just encourage you for a moment.

Speaker 1: 48:58

People, God's people, are the greatest resource. I'm not negating the Holy Spirit and the word, but I'm saying you as individuals are resource. You're a member of the Body of Christ and, being in ministry for 35 plus years, your group, seeing your group show up at events and volunteering and serving, that's a huge encouragement for someone in ministry. So please don't negate that and I would say that to all of our people who are watching and part of thinking through how can we impact our community. That is a huge impact and I know Moms for America, the founders, she would say at our first big event she was. When moms show up in their t-shirts at the school board meetings, people start to sweat Because they know when you upset them off.

Speaker 3: 49:46

They do an Austin event. They do there too as well yeah, I have a story about the school board, if I could share it real fast. So at the what was it September or either August we thought about doing a prayer okay, and our other moms member is too shy to get up there, and so she wanted to do the prayer and so I read it, but me in my flesh I'm like, but I just wanna let them have it. I just wanna tell the school board that they did this and this and this.

Speaker 3: 50:24

But the same mom. She's like but shouldn't we win them over with honey, Be sweet? And so I was like okay, fine, I'll pray first. Got up there and again, whenever we just started praying, the spirit, I think, fell in that school board meeting and after that meeting I had a principal come up and say thank you, Y'all are an answer to our prayers.

Speaker 1: 51:00

Wow, that's powerful.

Speaker 3: 51:01

And so with if I had gone at that with the flesh. Like you know, this is your.

Speaker 1: 51:06

What you wanted to do.

Speaker 3: 51:09

I would have looked like the fool, but then coming in love.

Speaker 1: 51:13

Yes, yes.

Speaker 3: 51:15

Made all the difference and open tremendous doors to get into the schools and look at what Mom's for America is doing with the other groups.

Speaker 1: 51:23

And to John and you started us off with that unity, so that's huge.

Speaker 2: 51:28

The school board has been a common theme for all of our organizations.

Speaker 2: 51:32

So, texas church leaders, I'm a dad, I've got four kids in our district and I've got families in our church that have kids in every other school, so to speak, home of school, private school, all of the above.

Speaker 2: 51:48

This is our community and as a pastor I wanna be a blessing to all of that. But the schools had a lot of things that were going on and we don't have time for all of it. But one of the things that we realized was you know, if we do mobilize the body of Christ, we can begin to put some good people on the school board. And so one of the first projects that Texas church leaders was working on I mean, we have a lot of projects that we work on but one of the ones that was gonna be of an immediate impact for the community was let's try to find some good, healthy school board members. And out of a board of seven, we got two put in place and it's easy to say, well, that's a big win, so that's great, right, you can just kind of hang it up and the answer is no, that's just the beginning, that's just starting. We're just getting out of the starting gate.

Speaker 2: 52:38

There's a whole lot more to do. There's a whole lot more work to do. But Texas church leaders as far as our group of local pastors, you know, it was a blessing to see how God put all the details around that together, because none of us are in the business of trying to figure out how to run an election or all that that's outside. But the Lord mobilized people to come around and as leaders we gave voice to the issues. We highlighted those who were supporting God's word and the perspective that God's word brought, and so we said we feel like this is the right direction for our community. We encourage people to go vote. So to Suzanne's point go vote. It's important, you need to vote, it's extremely important. And then, in addition to that, we had a number of other wins that we've been able to do. So we've had a number of community worship nights, because it's not just about the pastors, you know, saying oh, thus says the Lord, you shouldn't do this or shouldn't do that. We want to get together and celebrate and worship and realize that when we do come together as the large church, the large C church, the bigger body of Christ, that that does bear witness to really the deity of Jesus Christ that he did die on the cross for all of our sins. And we might separate over silly things or sometimes things that we consider more serious and significant, but at the end of the day, if Jesus Christ died in your place and you profess faith in him and God then realizes and here's your profession and you receive salvation, then you're my brother in Christ or my sister in Christ and I want to be able to celebrate with you in worship. So we have a lot of. We have currently three and or four, depending on how you count it different times of the year where Brenham, texas, will have all of our local churches come together for community worship, and that's starting with us. So we're seeing a lot of great things happen.

Speaker 2: 54:31

I'm praying that there's more. This last board meeting that we had with the local school district. Fellowship of Christian Athletes is another ministry that's in our community and our churches have kind of partnered with what's going on there. The district just approved the very first set of chaplains in the state of Texas that will be run through Fellowship of Christian Athletes. So that's a completely separate program and again, it's not that the wind is there and we can hang it up. Now. It's like no. Now we can move forward, but we got to see how God continues to lead and guide. So it's all done with love. We want to be a blessing to this community. We want, ultimately, people to hear the good news of Jesus Christ.

Speaker 4: 55:15

So Can I comment? Sure, go ahead. One of the most beautiful things about what you just said is Texas is the oldest school district, and I mean Brenham is the oldest school district in Texas, and so I think it's so appropriate and somewhat prophetic that we're the first school district to have chaplains in Texas. That is, to me, an amazing move of God. The new superintendent was very active in making that happen and that's a complete change. Before that, we weren't allowed to pray, we weren't allowed to even encourage or speak about in the school area.

Speaker 1: 55:51

So there's been a big change in attitude, but also now in all of us working together for wonderful things like that One of the things that was really big for us in the founding of Texas Leadership Summit was that very thing. This is the birthplace of Texas, this is where it all began. They started looking at, if we're gonna become a nation and we're gonna name it Texas, we're gonna have to look at our business pillar, we're gonna have to look at education, we're gonna have to look at government, our churches and those things, and leadership began thriving through their faith in those areas and it is very, you would say, prophetic. I would say it's very encouraging, patriotic. Encouraging and I would say for Texas, patriotism.

Speaker 4: 56:37

Crazy Lord.

Speaker 3: 56:38

And all down the line.

Speaker 1: 56:38

Just how it's fitting that Washington County, the birthplace of Texas, where it all began, and here you've got groups coming together and say we've had enough of having enough. And I share this cartoon about Popeye. You know, he said many people don't even remember Popeye, but when I was a kid, I watched Popeye and there was this scene in every cartoon. It was I can't stand it. I can't stand it no more, and there are thousands of people across the state of Texas that are at that point, which is why we're here today, trying to encourage, just sharing your stories and saying to the local community, those in other counties, just what's your inspiration, what inspired you? Hopefully it's your faith and your allegiance to Christ that is driving this saying I've got to do something to stand for my faith, and so our hope was that today, as you shared your stories, your different groups, this would give encouragement and tools. Here are the steps, here's the challenges, here are the wins, and everything that I'm hearing you, though, say is this is really a way of life for you. It's not like you found a program and said I want to promote that program. This is a way of life for us as believers, in our allegiance to Christ and standing with our Lord and standing with the church, and so I know there are some that are gonna continue to stand against what you're doing.

Speaker 1: 58:08

I know there's some who are attacking pastors and their families. I would say this to those who are listening, our viewers today you need to be ready for your children, for your family, your marriage and even where you live, friendships, relationships and a small community really want to encourage our leaders and other counties of Texas. There are gonna be people that you think are your friends or that you think would stand. When you say stand for your faith, you say amen, we're all on the same team and you're gonna see those people flee. They're just gonna vacate the scene and you're gonna be going.

Speaker 1: 58:49

What just happened? And so where are they? And so I wanna thank you all because you're standing for your faith. Brothers and sisters, we're in the same community. As a pastor, as a brother in the faith, it is so encouraging when you're in this fight and for people, for souls, and looking to other leadership, and you're looking around. Where's the leadership? Thank you for stepping forward and being everyday leaders and loving your Jesus, your savior, and loving each other and staying in the fight. I would say it's worth it, it is well worth it, and don't grow weary in doing good. Don't grow weary in doing good. So I love you all. Thank you so much. Any parting comments, way of summarizing, or last minute?

Speaker 4: 59:38

something came to the surface and something I wish I'd said before, when the 12 Texas churches came together and united. You have no idea what a strength that gave the rest of us. That that was a backbone that we knew we could count on, to go to depend on and to all the right reasons, and it always made me think of united we stand, divided we fall. So many communities, the churches, remain divided and haven't come together. That's another reason why I think we have the first chaplains, because all of you came together. Yeah well, keep praying for your pastors.

Speaker 2: 1:00:16

Tim and I were talking pastors are having. If you're gonna take a stand today against the ideology, you're gonna have a target on you. You're gonna hear from the atheists. They're gonna be calling your church. They're gonna be upset.

Speaker 2: 1:00:26

You're gonna have other things taking place, it's all okay. The Lord will get you through it, he will. But pastors need to be willing to realize you know what if they're gonna get rid of this body. I'm really a spiritual being. I'm both material and immaterial, but I am a spiritual being. So it's kind of the old passage in scripture If you're not him who could destroy the body, but he could also destroy the soul, I'm casting it to help. And so we need to be to your point earlier. First and foremost, fear the Lord. To start with the fear of the Lord and realize Jesus is coming back and we don't have a whole lot of time, and so let's be faithful to use the time that we do have wisely.

Speaker 1: 1:01:12

So any encouraging words?

Speaker 3: 1:01:14

I just wanna say that I feel like and we've been hearing this over and over Esther rising. You know there's Esther's rising all over the United States. So my question is who's gonna be the Esther that stands up in your community and says yes, because we've got a couple of Esther's here in our community that has said yes.

Speaker 1: 1:01:43

That's great, thank you, is there anything? You raised your mic to speak, just cheering her on. Amen, amen.

Speaker 4: 1:01:52

Thank you so much, thank you so much for doing what you're doing with these conferences, the TLS. It's so much needed. I hope this example is caught up and taken through the state.

Speaker 1: 1:02:06

Well, thank you. We're on the same team, so it's good to be able to share that with others.

Speaker 3: 1:02:11

One other thing whenever there is a call to action in your community, when your pastor's put out a community-wide worship night or a community prayer breakfast or whatever, don't just sit at home. Get yourself up and get yourself there. I mean, because that's what it's about. You sit there and a lot of people complain oh, there's nothing going on, there's nothing to do. No, no, no, no. But then I mean, there's many things going on in our community and like this community night of prayer and worship. That's awesome. But we have 17,000 people in our city limits. I'm not gonna tell you how many were there, but where were the others? Right, when there's a call to action, get up and mobilize and go do it.

Speaker 4: 1:03:09

I think the visitors in Brennermore's shocked because they saw those 300 people that the pastors got out and they said who are these people? And we said, oh, it's all the churches. They said you got churches to work together. You're serious.

Speaker 1: 1:03:24

Yeah, that's a testimony of our faith in.

Speaker 4: 1:03:27

Christ.

Speaker 1: 1:03:28

Yeah, well, thank you for today and God bless, keep working, keep saying after it, may your motivation always be out of love for Christ, as he has shown us mercy. We're to show mercy to others Out of that love. We're to love as he has loved us. And I wanna close with this that to any individuals, leaders in other areas that are thinking through this and ready to engage again. Even though we may be fed up, even though we may be in a fight, this is about people. This is about our Lord, ultimately, but we wanna take the love of Christ through this as we address these things and we wanna share our faith. Our hope as well is that people will come to faith in Christ and we wanna lead people to Christ, and so maybe we'll have another podcast and share how people have been saved, come to Christ, grow in their faith. That would be a huge encouragement, but may that be our motivation and we're advancing the kingdom for our King. So thank you again for today, god bless.

Speaker 2: 1:04:31

Thanks for having us prejudice Después. Зооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооооо. Issues are getting terrible right now.