Questions About SEO w/ Brittany Wong

If you’re new here—hi! I’m Brittany & I love answering questions you are wondering about SEO. Which is why I was SO thrilled that my web & brand designer name twin, Brittany Wong, jumped at the chance to join me for a SEO Q+A podcast episode! Definitely grab a notebook & look below for everything that we mentioned.

With this episode you’ll be able to:

• Discover tons of “secret” tips & tricks for keyword research.
• Uncover how to use image titles & Alt text correctly.
• Learn what happens to your SEO ranking when you update website copy.

Links:
Ubersuggest
HotJar Heatmaps
SEO Basics Checklist
Podcast SEO Templates

Connect w/ Brittany Wong:
Website
Instagram
Threads
Free Resource

SEO Services:
Blog Optimization
SEO Audit
SEO Strategy Session

→ Full Sho

Supercharge your podcast show notes with SEO—and easily turn podcast episodes into blog posts with templates & training videos created by SEO podcaster & copywriter, Brittany Herzberg!

Get SEO to work for you—with the DFY SEO Packet from SEO copywriter, Brittany Herzberg. More details here!

———
Find B on: Instagram, YouTube, Threads, & LinkedIn.

Often mentioned:
Buzzsprout (get $20 off)
Legal templates ($50 off w/ code: BASICB)
Hello Audio (15% off w/ code: BASICB)
Styled Stock Society
Brain.fm (1 mo. free!)
Book of the Mo. Club
HoneyBook (25% off)

(*affiliate links included, which means I might make a lil money when you click. I only recommend people, products, & programs I use & ❤️)

🎉 This podcast is brought to you in partnership w/ Leah Bryant Co.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:06

Welcome back to The Basic B Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in, wherever that may be. And of course, you're in for another treat with another guest of mine. I'm talking to Brittany Wong, and we're actually doing something totally different. I've never done this on this podcast. And I'm really excited to see how it goes and what you all think of it. So she's gonna be asking me some SEO questions.

Brittany Herzberg: 1:22

And I want to give you a little bit of backstory for like how this even happened and why we're doing this. Just because it is so different. And so new. So once upon a time on threads. Brittany, not me Brittany long shared a post of like, she had done some SEO stuff, she had put a lot of time and effort into it. And she's like, I really hope this works. Like I really hope I did this right. And then someone commented, and they clearly chose violence that morning. And I kind of chose sass that morning. And then here we are. So I invited Brittany on for a few reasons. One, of course, just because I love answering real questions from real people. And I can't think of the questions the way that you would ask them using the words that you would so instead of me trying to like pull questions out of thin air, I would rather just like have someone on here and have them ask questions, kinda sort of using your words and probably thinking some similar thoughts as you. And the other reason I wanted to have her on is because we were talking about her SEO, she is newer to putting the strategy behind that. And being on a podcast is one of the quickest things you can do to like really help your SEO, because you're getting links from these podcast players to your website. That is how we ended up here. I'll give you a quick intro and then I will actually bring Brittany on so she and I can both be confused for the remainder of this podcast about which Brittany we're talking about. So here we go.

Brittany Wong: 2:45

In 2018 at eight and a half months pregnant, Brittany left her perfect on paper a job at an agency to become a mother and open the doors to Happyland creative a branding and web design studio for small business owners who understand that being a grownup business owner doesn't have to be boring. Since then, Happyland creative has served over 80 clients holding firm to the belief that brands can be fun while still being professional. I love that. Brittany spends her days quoting friends thinking about Disneyland, eating entire bags of kettle corn and creating eye catching brands and captivating online shopping experiences that boost your confidence as a business owner and gets your customers eager to fill up their carts. I would also like to note that Brittany spells her name correctly. So of course I like her. So Hi, friend. Hi, fellow Brittany.

Unknown: 3:34

Yeah, I know right. Thanks so much for sitting patiently while I like got all of that out.

Brittany Wong: 3:38

Oh my gosh, I love it. It's so funny to like, hear your bio read back to you. I'm like, oh, that sounds pretty good. Okay, I like it.

Brittany Herzberg: 3:48

I recorded with someone last week, and they said the same thing. And I'm like, yeah, it's just so nice. It's like, oh, that person sounds pretty cool. Like, how can I mute them?

Brittany Wong: 3:55

She knows what she's doing. All right.

Unknown: 3:58

Oh my gosh. Okay, so we're gonna get into your questions. But before we do, I'm gonna ask you the same question I asked everyone. There is no wrong answer. I just like we'd love to have your thoughts. Okay. So which do you believe is the most important for sales, SEO, storytelling or social proof?

Brittany Wong: 4:14

Oh, gosh. Okay, for sale, I'm going to say storytelling because you want to make your customer feel something. So SEO is going to help you show up in front of your customer. Social proof. Some of the people really do like read reviews. But I'm gonna pretend like I'm a psychologist here for a second. I'm not but I know a thing or two about consumer psychology. And people already have made up their mind if they're gonna buy from you in a split second, the reviews aren't going to convince them to buy from you if they already are feeling a certain way about your business or your brand. So I think storytelling is the thing that's going to make you sale because that's what's going to make them feel something, they're going to be able to picture, whatever this product is that you sell, they'll be able to picture that in their life. It kind of romanticizes their life a little bit. And that's what we all want is to be living in a movie. So that's my answer.

Unknown: 5:20

I love that. I'm giggling because I'm like, Yeah, I really do. Oh, where can I sign up for that?

Brittany Wong: 5:25

Right, I love that video. I've seen it like, oh, internet sometimes have somebody's like, filming this woman from like a, I don't know, they're up on like the fourth or fifth story. And like, she's like dancing, and she's wearing this like yellow skirt. And oh, my gosh, it's so bad. And you just know that she's got her playlist going and like, that's her walking through the city playlist or whatever.

Unknown: 5:46

No kidding. Oh, my gosh, I love that. So Brava. Well done. Thank you. Now it's my turn to sit over here. And I guess get asked some questions.

Brittany Wong: 5:54

Okay, great, because I don't know anything about SEO. And you're right. When I did post that thing on threads that was like, hope I don't mess this up. That person was like, I don't remember what they said. But it was something like, Well, you probably did if you did it this way. Or like, I hope you didn't do it this way. I don't remember.

Unknown: 6:13

yeah, they said something about specifically keyword research. Yeah, using keywords and like doing keyword research wrong. Yeah. And I was like, I remember coming to your DMS on Instagram. And I was like, I really hope that was like too sassy. But also like, you're good. Because SEO, it's kind of making educated guesses, like, it's a hypothesis. And we're testing it. We're taking in some good information and hoping that we put out good stuff, but like, you really can't mess up keyword research that badly.

Brittany Wong: 6:43

That's really comforting, because it feels that way. Like when you're trying to research how to do SEO, or whatever. It feels like either it should be like so simple. Like, I can't believe you even have to ask how to do this, or so complicated that you need like a PhD in it. So I was really comforted when you DM me and you're like, you're fine. It's fine.

Unknown: 7:08

Yeah, and thank you, I'm glad that that came across that way, because I was just like, I got into SEO, because I wanted to show myself that I didn't have to have a PhD that it didn't have to be complicated or expensive. And so now I'm like, on the other side of it, having at least a decent amount of knowledge about it. And I just want to let other people know that like, hey, it's not super complicated. A lot of it is just you know, again, educated guesses being intentional, being really thoughtful. If you do that, you're fine. That's half the battle.

Brittany Wong: 7:37

So okay, my first question is about keywords. How do you know what keywords you should be using? And then at the same time, like, what is the deal with? There's these like long tail keywords that are phrases because when I use Google, I type in like a full sentence like how to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Not the way that they taught me in school. But maybe some people aren't googling that way. So like, how do you even know what keywords or key phrases? Maybe that's multiple questions?

Unknown: 8:11

I mean, I think it's all wrapped into one and okay, I'm glad that you're asking this because sometimes I forget to touch on different things. So I've got like 14 thoughts in my head. When I say keywords, I'm often talking about key phrases, also singular words. So in my head, and I think with a lot of SEOs, I'm kind of being general here. But I think with a lot of SEO pros, we are saying keywords and meaning like massage or meeting massage therapist in Apex, North Carolina. One is a singular word and one is a phrase, but it's like under the umbrella. It's under the umbrella.

Brittany Herzberg: 8:45

Yeah, and longtail keywords, is another way to say a keyword phrase or key phrase or something like that. So it's really cool for people and probably for even you to like realize that when you're typing a search query into Google that you have that sentence, because then we can think through how our clients are also using it as well. If I think about when am I only putting in a few words, it's usually like my boyfriend and I read articles like at dinner time, we're like searching to find different articles. And maybe it'll talk about a celebrity or movie or something Kate Middleton that's timely. But maybe that's when I'm typing in a person's name, or a movie name or a song name or something like that. Other than that, I really can't truthfully, think of a time where I'm just typing in one word I might be looking for like, I'm still relatively new to the state of Connecticut. I've been here like a year and a half. But like, I'm gonna need to find like medical professionals. You know, I'm gonna need to find like a vet. So maybe I want to find a vet specifically for small breed dogs in whatever town. I feel like I'm getting like way too in the weeds here. But like thinking through your search behavior really helps you to also think through your clients search behavior. are, let's just button that up with keywords. It's often more than one word, anyone listening to start to notice what your search behavior is? When are you typing things in for your business? When are you typing things in just for funsies? And when are you typing things in for? You have a medical need or something like that, just like be aware of that. When I start my clients with SEO, I always have them start with social proof. There are three key questions that I asked them. And I'll go over those in a second. But I also have them just look at their client testimonials. Look at your client communications, how are they phrasing things that you're saying? Again, me with SEO with that jargon? Not everyone's gonna say stuff the way that I'm going to say it or the way that I could say it. So what are those words they're using to describe what you do, how you've helped them? What they have now the results that they've gotten, what their desire was, what their stuck points? Were? All those kinds of things? What are their words, and looking your emails, look in your text messages, look on Instagram, look on Voxer look on all of your client communication, things start there? And then the 3 questions I have people start with are, who do you help? What do you want to be known for? And how do you help people? Because then we're really thinking through like, Okay, who am I trying to get in front of, and then that helps inform the keyword research and the types of things that you might want to include in headlines or include as an image title or something like that. But SEO strategy is really about using, like the air quotes, write words in the right places. So if we think of, you know, updating our about page, there are certain key places that you want to have those keywords and be using them. If we're writing a fresh blog, there are certain keywords that we want to put in certain places. And I'll go back to keywords for a second, and then I'll stop talking. But with key phrases with those longtail keywords, where we've got, I don't know, 567 words in a phrase, you do not have to use the words in the order in which they appear.

Brittany Wong: 12:01

Okay, that was going to be my next question is like, how exactly do these keywords need to be? Right?

Unknown: 12:07

Yeah, you can shuffle them around. And when I learned that, I was like, mind blown, just like, oh, that opens so many more doors. So instead of me panicking and trying to use these key phrases in this very like, stiff, boring, dry way, I then just make sure like, I'll write a headline. And then underneath I'll put the key phrase, and then I'm just making sure like, okay, all the words are in the headline. Hmm.

Brittany Wong: 12:30

Okay. That's a good tip. I do have a question about like, when you hear people say, Oh, I'm writing a blog for SEO or like optimized for SEO? Like, I've been writing blogs from my business, since I started five years ago. So I mean, I think I'm talking about branding and design, like I'm saying those words a lot of times, but to just rank for, like, brand designer seems impossible, like I'm never going to be number one on Google for brand designer. So when you're writing a blog, and you're writing it with SEO in mind, how are you getting that blog to rain for the keywords that you're using?

Unknown: 13:16

Yeah, you kind of answered it, which is going for a big term, like branding, or massage, or copywriting that is so saturated, and we're never going to rank for that. There are big companies, they're up there, a phrase that you'll hear me say probably on the podcast is search volume. And I use this free tool, Hoover suggest it's a Chrome extension. And you only need the free thing, there is a paid thing.

Brittany Herzberg: 13:42

But unless you're going to turn SEO into a side hobby, or like, you know, start charging people for it, just deal with the free one, like it's got a lot of good stuff in there. But search volume, all that means is on average, each month, how many people are typing in this phrase in Google. So if it's 30, that's actually more ideal than like 30,000. We don't want to go for the super high volume, because then we're going to be a small fish in a big pond buried on page eight. But if we go for that 30 search volume, we're going to be a big fish in a smaller pond will likely landing in front of those warm to hot leads versus a cold lead or just in front of someone who's like casually typing something in. Does that help?

Brittany Wong: 14:27

Yes, I think that's really helpful. So it's, it's really important to know, your audience and how and what they're typing in. Because if I'm thinking like, Oh, my audience is looking for a brand designer, but I'm never going to rank for brand designer, because I guess that search volume like those 30 people searching for that like you want to make sure that those are your target customer.

Unknown: 14:51

Yeah, And another way to think through it too is and I've recently started to share this because it clicked in my head is where are they on the stages of awareness and ending sample I get is like with SEO just sticking with this because it's the world that I know, if I'm going for like the lower aware people, they're going to be typing in what is SEO? They're not even going to know that that stands for Search Engine Optimization.

Brittany Herzberg: 15:14

They would be the people in your world who are probably like, brand designer brand designing like, what is that? Yeah, I need one. Again, going back to SEO. It's more of like, how to optimize a blog post, like we're talking about? Or how often to do keyword research, something like that. So they have more specific questions. Because they're really looking for answers. And they're really looking for help. They're not casually looking, they actually have something that they're working on or something in mind. So you know, with that, I mean, Does anything come to mind for specific questions that you're getting about brain design, or specific problems that you're helping people solve, or just, you know, things that come up in conversation,

Brittany Wong: 15:56

the stages of awareness, I think, is something that like, because I do a lot of work, even with my clients, like, oh, let's talk about your audience. But the stages of awareness isn't something that I spend a ton of time like thinking about, and even just as you're talking, like, my gosh, what an underutilized thing that I'm like not doing. I think that is so important, like, I am embarrassed that I didn't realize how important that actually is. But you're right. I think like for me, in my personal business, my clients are not beginner, like my client, I'll tell you, they've been in business, five to seven years, they run a like a product business, they have a product of some kind, like, right now I'm working with a coffee shop, and another company that sells like dog food supplements. So these are businesses that sell something to somebody. And they're usually coming to me, because now they're like, Okay, I've proven this to myself, I want to rebrand, like, they want something that feels comfortable, their brand doesn't feel like it suits them, or it's not going to take them to where they're trying to go. So that's where my client is. And I think they're not in the like, what is branding? Do I need it, they already know that they need it. What they're looking for, is somebody to do it. And my one of my clients that I'm working with now, like he doesn't know how to find a designer who does this, other than typing it into Google, or asking somebody that he knows. And that's how he and I came together was through a website called brief that pairs up clients with agencies. So that's like, what my clients are doing is they're either asking, Who do I know who does this? Or typing it into Google? I guess now what they're typing into Google? I don't know.

Unknown: 17:48

And that's always a fun thing to ask. Like, especially when I really started diving into SEO, I was like, What are you typing in? Do you remember? And I would try to grab that usually, like earlier on. So they filled out an intake form or something like that, or we get on a call. And I will even just, you know, I still try to do this. But I will even just say like, do you remember what you're typing in? Do you remember? Like, what questions you were asking your friends and how you ended up getting to this? Because same thing, I actually just had someone last week, a friend of mine who was like, who knows a Squarespace designer, and like, they have a very like niche. It's like astrology. And most people would be like, Oh, this is like woowoo. Yeah.

Brittany Wong: 18:27

So like that, like soul like kind of designer?

Unknown: 18:33

that's like, what do you do? So of course, her first thing was like, let me just ask the people that I know and trust, who they would recommend. And like, this is my sight platform that I have. And this is the type of business that I have. So it's not just I want a brand designer, or I want a website designer, or I want a copywriter. It's like I want someone who works with me who gets me who understands me. And all of us have that.

Brittany Wong: 18:55

That's so good. Yeah, cuz I wouldn't think oh, we will is a keyword. But like it like I write like it might be somebody might be typing that in. That's really interesting. I never thought about that. And I think that is something like even from a branding perspective. I'm always telling people that like, Well, why don't you ask your customers or why don't like, I don't know why it's so nerve wracking to just ask them like they're buy from you. Like they obviously like your business. So I could just ask them, like, get over our social anxiety and just like send a little email like, hey,

Unknown: 19:33

yeah, and I'm like the weirdo because I will feel awkward about it and ask anyway, even coming to you with the DM after the whole threads thing. I was like, this might be weird. This might be overkill, but I'm gonna send the message anyway.

Brittany Wong: 19:46

And look, it's like great. And now really internet besties!

Unknown: 19:50

I love your threads. I freaking love threads!

Brittany Wong: 19:53

I'm having a lot of fun over there!

Unknown: 19:54

It's so great. But yeah, so you just never know but I do feel like even you asking that question. I I'm like, I think we don't want to feel like amateurs. And I think you don't want to meet our clients and doubt their investment with us. And they're working with us. And so I think that's really why, at the heart of it, why we don't feel as comfortable to go and ask them because we just don't want to plant any seed of like, Oh, she's asking me this, I shouldn't have hired her for this thing.

Brittany Wong: 20:21

She doesn't know what she's doing. That's a really good point. Yeah, I did have one client that I've never had this happen in my, like, five years of business. But it happened to me last year where something happened, and it shook her confidence. And she ended up canceling her entire project with me. And I do have like a little, like PTSD around that now like asking people a question or planting any kind of seed that could make them doubt like, Oh, she doesn't know what she's doing or, right. This isn't her area of expertise, which like, we can't be experts in everything. Like, that's crazy that we put that on ourselves. Yeah.

Unknown: 20:58

But it's also a very, very normal thing, especially for entrepreneurs. So I would say, understanding that that has been an experience for you kind of recently, when I've had something like that happen, the only way that I can shake it is by like, going out and trying again, and then building up the muscle memory that's like, Oh, that's not the only scenario that happens. Sometimes people actually do respond. So you could always couch it as, hey, I'm in this program. And I'm doing some like market research. And they've got us in this like section of the program. I've actually done that quite a few times, because the programs that I tend to join to have like this very robust Voice of Customer section. So if I'm ever like, I don't know if I should ask or not, I usually couch it like that. So you could take that if you want or leave it if you don't

Brittany Wong: 21:41

I think you're right. Like, you just have to get up and dust yourself off and try again. And even like, I'm thinking of big brands, like I get hundreds of marketing emails every day. And like, there are big brands that send out customer surveys and like, I get it like I'm thinking of Old Navy, they send it to me probably like, once a year that's like, oh, vote on our next, whatever, like these designs that they're thinking about selling. I just did one from Disney because I thought maybe they would give me a discount their survey. They didn't. But I guess there are like big companies out there that are asking their customers for input and feedback. And I don't think that's weird. So our clients and customers aren't going to think it's weird.

Unknown: 22:25

If we do it, they're not gonna think it's weird. And I think it's also easier for people working at a big company to do that, because it's not Happyland created by Brittany Wong. It's not copied by being you by Brittany Herzberg. It's like I work at Disney. And I'm just like a tiny little player in this big business

Brittany Wong: 22:41

Right? No, that makes sense. Okay, so last question about keywords. I've heard that you're supposed to pick one keyword, and like, put it all over your site, like you pick the one thing that you want to be known for? And I'm like, How in the world? Are you supposed to do that one? Because I do two things. I do branding and web design. I want people to know both of those things. So like, how am I supposed to pick? Just one? Is that a thing? Like you're only supposed to pick one?

Unknown: 23:13

Yeah, it's a total myth. Don't do that. Because if you end up picking one word, and you put branding, and that's like the thing that you're trying to put on every single web page, one, it's not going to work, because you're going to have to use other words anyway, whether that's a blog topic that you're writing about, or your about page or services page or something like that. At some point, you're gonna say branding services, or branding strategy or brand, like there's going to be other words that are going to be tacked on to that.

Brittany Herzberg: 23:37

Also, if you were to pick one keyword, or key phrase or longtail keyword and try to write five blogs about that, or try to have that be, what your about page and your services and your contact and all these pages are trying to rank for. Basically, it's not a good strategy, because really every single page, whether it's a web page or a blog post, that's another opportunity for you to rank for something. Okay, so that's another time that you could end up in a different search for whatever that client is looking for. So the main lesson here is no, you don't want to just have one word for every single page on your website, you really want to have a variety that you're trying to rank for a topic for a blog post, a main thing that you're saying over on your about page, a big idea for your services page. Does that make sense?

Brittany Wong: 24:29

I don't think so. It seems like it's just another example of not putting all your eggs in one basket. Because my blog is gonna always be pretty simple. It's gonna be branding, web design, packaging, whatever. It's never going to be branding, web design, horse training, and homesteading. Like it's never going to be those things like it's always going to be kind of related. So yeah, even if I'm not picking No, one key word. I'm not trying to rank for like these random bizarre things like, it seems like they're always like words that are going to kind of go together anyways.

Unknown: 26:03

Yeah. And so the other thing that you were talking about is like you do a couple different things. So do I. So I very much feel this one. I even call myself an SEO and Case Study copywriter. So even in just that phrase, a search engine is going to pull out from that SEO, SEO copywriter, case study copywriter, copywriter case studies, so it's going to pull out all of these variations all these like singular pieces from that one phrase. So if you do two things, say those two things, okay, you definitely don't need to just be like branding. And that's it. I don't need to be like copywriting. That's it.

Brittany Wong: 26:41

We can only have one passion in life. That's it.

Unknown: 26:45

That would be the end of my world because I went from massage therapy to copywriting.

Brittany Wong: 26:49

Oh my gosh, wouldn't that be? That would be so boring. We can't have that. Yeah. So I want to ask you about alt text, because I feel like this is a thing. And it's good. Like, I'm glad that alt text is becoming more and more prevalent. You see people utilizing it on social media and things like that. I know from general rumblings in the grapevine that like you're supposed to fill out your alt text on your website, because it helps your SEO. So one, how does it help your SEO, and to, I've heard mixed ways of how you're supposed to utilize your alt text, like some people say, the alt text is for people who use screen readers. So you need to type in an exact description of the image. Like if it's a girl holding a cat in a grassy field, that's what you would type in. I've also heard other people say, and I should note that I've heard them say this in like a YouTube series of teaching about SEO, that you should type in keywords into your alt texts. So it would be like, whatever, branding and web design studio. So what is the truth? And how do you use alt text,

Unknown: 28:14

I'm definitely going to need to link to Erin Perkins podcast when I have her on the show, too. She is a blind deaf entrepreneur and I talked with her, she really helped me with all text to figure out what I needed to do with it. And shout out to my friend Robbie as well, who is a blind web designer. I still don't know how she does it!

Brittany Wong: 28:32

Those are the people that we need!

Unknown: 28:35

So these two women have really, really helped me and I'll kind of try to distill this like simply but yes to both, they should be descriptive, and we it is an opportunity for keywords. So in my head, I'll try to explain it like this because this is what I say in the blogging course too.

Brittany Herzberg: 28:52

But in my head, there's kind of two types of images, you have, like the images, images, where it's like If I feel like I can actually dream up that image based on the words being said, then I feel like I'm doing a good job. Also, I should throw in here. And I should have said this before I went into this, but image titles, don't just have it say ing 35432 To have the keywords. Okay, so for sure do that because the screen reader is reading the image title, the a lifestyle photo, or headshots of us or something like that. screen reader is then reading the alt text, we have to be thoughtful of how that plays into what's being said on the page. If you go to my website, now, you will see images that don't have alt text, you will see images that probably didn't have the image title done correctly. And that's okay, like I know better now. So I'm doing better now. And if that's the scenario that you Brittany or anyone listening finds yourself in, it's okay and And then you have like graphics and screenshots. So images, you just like, let that be and maybe make that a project in the future. Or just let that be. So image title for sure is important. Now for the pictures where it's like headshot or lifestyle photo, describe the image. That's also a good place to put keywords in. An example of alt text that I have for like one of my images at least, is something like Brittany definitely want to be describing the image. And a test I like to Herzberg, SEO in case study copywriter is wearing a white blazer or holding her MacBook and smiling at the computer. So I'll say something like, okay, and then for graphics and screenshots, it's a little bit different because sometimes those screenshots have a lot of text on them. And what we really want to do is pull out that typically it's like one, maybe two lines where the client said something like, do is sometimes I'll even have, like my boyfriend read the alt really amazing. The most important phrase and put that either as the alt text or as the caption, if you do it as the caption, your alt text is good as a screenshot. And then your caption might say something like, either image says, or image description, or ID. And then the quote would be, and I have it in quotes, and it says Brittany's copy is fire. And the way that she infuses client stories into her copy strategy text to me, and I'll sit here and close my eyes. And that's is genius. It helps the copy really ring true for the client and do the heavy lifting. We've got client in there, we've got client stories, we've got copy, we've got strategy, we've got my name. So those are the kinds of things that I really wanted to drive that point home. And that's what I want to make sure anyone who's using a screen reader and they're not reading the text, but they're hearing it, I want them to hear that message. So like my test. that's kind of like how you do it for whether it's a picture or like a graphic or a screenshot.

Brittany Wong: 31:44

Yeah, that's really good. And I'll just say, from the web designer perspective, and the usability aspect, when there's text in a screenshot, like you said, like if you're taking a screenshot of like a client, testimonial, or whatever, and there's a lot of text, like text, and an image isn't going to scale down on a mobile phone. So like, if you're looking at an image with text in it on a mobile phone, it's going to appear a lot smaller, and it can be harder to read. So including that text as a caption that will scale. It sounds like not only like is more beneficial, obviously, for the people who need it. But like just in general, it's going to be easier for everybody to read. So

Unknown: 32:24

it's good to hear, or just earlier today, even when I was like thinking through this stuff, I'm like, Huh, I wonder if there's one that's preferable. So there you go. Caption is preferable?

Brittany Wong: 32:33

I would say so. Yeah. I mean, there's like sometimes that you can get away with it if the text is large enough or whatever. But generally speaking, like text on an image is not preferable for

Brittany Herzberg: 32:45

Cool. That is good to know. I love that!

Brittany Wong: 32:49

If you change your copy on your website, does that mess up your SEO? So like, let's say you're ranking for whatever your keyword is, but then you want to like add in a new keyword or you want just to freshen up your website? Is your SEO going to tank? Are you going to stop ranking for that? Or does it depend on how you go about doing it,

Unknown: 33:15

there's probably a bunch of different scenarios for this, and probably a bunch of different answers. But like, if we're thinking of the hero section, and everything of changing the copy, in my mind, that would show up if we're doing a rebrand. And probably there's a bigger overhaul happening on a website. So the messaging is probably changing. And there's probably a lot of thought and intention behind it, it's probably not just like, it's a Wednesday, and I feel like changing my hero section.

Brittany Wong: 33:42

I don't know, I wouldn't put it past some people.

Brittany Herzberg: 33:45

It's true. If that is you, and it's like, oh, this seems like a good idea today. Maybe just make sure that there's some intention behind it, maybe don't do that, like don't maybe just like sit on it. And that's coming from me a manifesting generator, who, if I have an idea, I often want to act on it immediately. And I've really had to like rein myself in and be like, let's just make a note of this and come back to it in a week or two. So maybe don't do that. But changing your copy isn't necessarily a bad thing. And it isn't necessarily going to ding your SEO, it kind of depends, which is the answer that like no one wants to hear. You don't want to keep changing like your h1 in your hero section. I would say when you choose a new one, let's say you're listening to this podcast, and you decide, okay, I want to put some SEO strategy behind my web copy. Cool, you do some keyword research. And maybe like in a few days, you have a new h1 that you want to use. Let that ride for like at least 3 to 4 months. So you can really look at the data and see what that is showing you and look at you know, a heat map or something to show you what people are actually doing how they're interacting with your website. Definitely don't go through and change things like 10 times a year and just like constantly be switching things up. But I will also say something that I do encourage people to do was to go back and optimize your blog's or go back and optimize web pages or things like that. And by optimize, I mean, if you don't have an SEO strategy in place right now, and you want to go do that, go do that. If you have some messaging that you've tightened up and you want to have a more accurate representation of your messaging on your services page. Go do that. That's good. And that's okay. You know, if we're talking blogs, you can go back and make sure that you're linking between blogs that you're linking between blogs and your other web pages. That's super smart. That's really necessary. You could, you know, maybe pull in some optimized images, maybe you did, go and resize things and go and retitle things and then you're bringing the fresh image into your blog. Those are things that we can be doing that are good and that Google and other search engines are like, oh, there's a party here. Getting over there and what's happening over there? Oh, okay. Like they see the activity. And that's a good thing.

Brittany Wong: 35:56

Does it make the search engines notice your website more if you're like, updating thing? Interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah,

Brittany Herzberg: 36:04

so don't just do it like flippantly or just because again, just because it's like Wednesday, but, you know, be really thoughtful and strategic with it. And something that I have is the SEO basics checklist. So you were talking earlier about, like, where do we actually put the keywords? I'll make sure that I have that checklist linked, because that's really, for something called on page SEO, which is, where do you put those keywords? Once you have the right ones? What are the right places that they need to go into? So that walks you completely through it? And that is definitely something that like, as you have this new SEO strategy, or this updated SEO strategy, and you're going and plugging those things? And that's a good thing. Yeah,

Brittany Wong: 36:42

that's really interesting. Because I was going to ask you about, like, if you have content written, can you just like go back in? And I don't know, judge it up to make it more SEO optimized? So it sounds like, yes, you can, yes. Okay. And then on threads, I saw somebody couldn't tell you who it was, I need to be better about paying attention to names, but I'm just like, I'm scrolling on threads, I gotta see it all. So somebody posted, they were like an SEO person. So this was like a screenshot of their client that they're working with. And it was the analytics for this person's website. And you know, you see, like, the chart, like the whatever graph is kind of low. And then they marked out a line where this person had like, done their freebie or something like that. And they got like a little tiny bump in their traffic or their whatever. And then it kind of went back down again, but they were still much higher than when they started. And then it dipped back down a little bit and kind of stayed steady. And then they hired this person to do their SEO and it like poof, like, shot up off the charts. So what is the difference? Like, obviously, this client saw some results, DIY themselves, because there was a big jump, like from where they started to where they were. But then when they hired that SEO expert, it like shot through the roof. I mean, maybe can't spill, maybe it's a trade secret, but like, what's the difference? What's the magic? What's going on?

Brittany Herzberg: 38:15

Do you remember what the freebie was?

Brittany Wong: 38:17

No, I don't think she said what the freebie was?

Brittany Herzberg: 38:21

Ok, I was just curious about that. I think the biggest difference between like DIY buying it, and then having support is the having support. Okay, you know, when I first started redoing my SEO, the first thing I did was the SEO title and the meta description. And those are the two pieces that when you go and you type your you know whole sentence on Google. And then the search results page pops up. The blue hyperlink to text is your SEO title. And the meta description is the gray one to two sentences underneath. So those two pieces, I was like, Oh, I really need to make sure that those are out there on the internet saying the right thing so that people want to click on it, and know what they can expect when they click on the page. So that's where I started. But for SEO, there's 3 things that you really want to pay attention to, you want to focus on finding and fixing any errors like broken pages, or broken links, or pages that are doing like the 404 things. And then you want to be creating content strategically, smartly, again, like we were talking about earlier, like what blogs are we going to share? Well, we need to go through that awareness journey. And that is one thing with blogging that someone can really help you with. Because if you're one person, maybe you're cranking out one blog a month, if you're lucky, if you have an agency helping you, you can have eight to 10 blogs a month going out if you've got like a whole support system. So that really greatly impacts things. And then the third piece is getting backlinks. So that's doing something like this, where you're coming on a podcast, and you don't get just one link from my podcast to your website, you get like 10. This is something I didn't even realize, but you got all those multiple podcast players pointing with those links to your website, to your Instagram to your freebie, whatever you have the links going to that's happening. And then another way you could do this is if you guest blog or if you answer you know, respond to like a Haro article request or something like that. They're often then going to link to your website too. So anytime that you can be doing things like that, or going live with someone on YouTube, and having them linked to your website. So we want the backlinks. We want content being created and we want to stay on top of any issues and fix them, you know, in the order in which they make sense, like from a strategy and priority standpoint. But high think probably the biggest difference is like you've definitely got direction. You've got likely a lot more support that can help you tackle a lot more things. Use something I do when I work with my clients, I either work with solopreneurs, who were like, you know, very on the hats doing all the things, or I'm working with what I call supported CEOs, where they have a team of one plus, so I can then show the team member, hey, this is what you do. And then they can like take care of it internally. And maybe every once in a while, they're like, hey, Brittany, what about this thing? But I really think the biggest difference is just the volume of support.

Brittany Wong: 41:18

That makes sense, because as we've been talking, it seems like SEO is not like a thing that you do like one time, it seems kind of like a tedious ongoing in all the nooks and crannies, where you forgot to lug. Yeah.

Unknown: 41:35

And things are always changing. And like, that's not to say that to scare anybody, because I'll be honest, I'm not the person that stays the most up to date on all the SEO things. I'm busy working on my clients stuff or recording podcast, yeah, use. I'm not attending all of like Neil Patel's workshops, I have the best of intentions, but I'm not necessarily going there. I'm not necessarily doing all the Google trainings, hats off to people who are able to do that. But like, I've got work that I'm working on. So I'm often just kind of figuring out what are those tried and true basics, foundational pieces that we need to harp on, and we need to stay on top of. And we can do that, again, by fixing the errors by creating blogs, and then by getting backlinks from other websites to our website.

Brittany Wong: 42:18

I mean, SEO, it's not going to change the way that Instagram changes or whatever. And you're like constantly having to shift the way that you use it or put things out there.

Brittany Herzberg: 42:29

I don't think so personally, but there are people who disagree with me, there are people who are like, you know, we search is changing stuff. And this is changing stuff and AI and like Good lord, everybody under the sun is like, yeah...

Brittany Wong: 42:43

Those people are on threads to read. They're like, Kenyans are dead. And I'm like hashtags are dead. Keywords are dead reaches dead, like good luck.

Brittany Herzberg: 42:53

And that could be just like fear mongering of people who just for all I know, maybe they're trying to get clients that way. Yeah. And just trying to spook people, which is the thing that I didn't like about the response on threads. Yeah,

Brittany Wong: 43:06

there's, there's a lot of that. And that's why like, I love connecting with you so much, because I feel like, I don't know, things just feel more possible. Like when somebody's encouraging, and it's like, oh, yeah, no, this, it's not hard. But like, you could still use support, but also like, you can do it on your own. Yeah. It's just, it's nice when people don't pretend like everything is rocket science, you know,

Unknown: 43:32

it's not, not everything is a burning fire either. And so I have an SEO packet. And the first step of that is doing an SEO audit to discover and to fix those errors. And I've started to list in priority of like, okay, these are the things you really need to tackle, these are some things that you could schedule out time to tackle. Pretty much everyone that's come through the doors, it's like, nothing is a burning fire here. These are some opportunities, but like, you don't need to freak out. Yeah,

Brittany Wong: 43:58

like when you start making, I don't even know what to call it. But like SEO changes, like you're trying harder, when you start trying harder. When do you start to see the fruits of that labor

Brittany Herzberg: 44:11

industry standard, it's like three to six months, three to four months is possible if you're doing a lot of things. So for example, if you aren't cranking out eight to 10 blogs a month, you're probably gonna see some changes quicker than someone else. It really depends on the person and the business. And what that backstory already is, have they already worked with some other like SEO pro maybe like five years ago, and then they kind of dropped the ball. And now they're like, Alright, I need to do this again. Are they running ads? Do they have a lot of content out there already? There's just like, so many factors, so many variables. And that's why you'll hear people say, like three to six months. So I'm actually really curious to see what my SEO does, because I have not created blog content in a very long time. And with having this podcast, I've been much more intentional with it. And just last week, I think it was last week where I posted on threads. And I was like I just posted 13 blog post. I took two hours because I had been really smart and strategic with like the templates and stuff. But it still took a lot of time for me to like, make sure everything was in the right place and get all the things like send the link off to Google Search Console and make sure everything was findable. And I'm really curious, though, because I think that means I have a total of 21 blog posts that went live, at least in the last two months, which is like, stupid.

Brittany Wong: 45:29

A lot. Yeah. Okay, wait, you just said something. You sent the link to Google Search Console to do that every time.

Brittany Herzberg: 45:37

Yes. So you definitely want to do that whenever you have a fresh blog post or you update your about page or you go back and you optimize a blog post. And it's really simple and I have a link for a video. It's like a two minute tutorial on Make sure to give that to you when we're done. So it's super simple. And I used to avoid this because one, I didn't even know that I needed to do it. And then once I heard about it, I was like, I don't have the time to do this. It is literally copy your new blog post link, go over to Google Search Console, make sure you're signed into your account, type that link into a search bar, and then request indexing, and that makes your blog more findable faster.

Brittany Wong: 46:19

Oh, my gosh, like my mouth is gaping open, because I had no idea like so if you don't do that, like you're not Google just doesn't know that you did something. So

Unknown: 46:29

it finds it, it just usually takes a bit longer. And I even noticed like some of my pages were ranking, but it just increases your chances and speeds the process up a little bit faster.

Brittany Wong: 46:40

Oh my gosh, that's the secret. I asked what the magic is that was it right there. I had no clue. That's what I'm like, I'm like, I have Google Analytics. I also have Google Search Console, because people told me I need it. But I'm like, Wow, no didn't do with it. That's what you do with it. That's

Unknown: 46:58

why you do with it. That's one of the things and that's really like the big thing I do. There's also something called submitting your sitemap, which again, sounds complicated and also was like super simple, you just have to know like the things to type in. Let me make a note to myself to record that.

Brittany Wong: 47:15

I know I'm like I know, for my job, I should know more about sitemaps. But last year, we are admitting that we don't know everything. I don't

Unknown: 47:24

know everything like spoiler, you don't have to know everything. And there's parts of SEO that I just have zero interest in learning about, like, I don't want to go and do like the super technical stuff. I like the words, I like the messaging, I like optimizing individual pages. So I'm gonna stay here because that's also something I can very easily teach other service providers.

Brittany Wong: 47:45

This has been like, so helpful. But to wrap things up,

Unknown: 47:49

I definitely want to let people know where they can connect with you. So like, if you have free resources, or you know, contact info or anything, share all the things.

Brittany Wong: 47:57

So I am in the midst of a reckoning with social media, but you can always find me at my website, Happyland creative.com on threads. Now I am on Instagram, I'll probably always be on Instagram, I love it. I hate it, whatever. But I'm there. But like I said, you can always find me at my website Happyland creative.com. And I just launched a new freebie, because my email list I'm thinking I'm gonna love more than social media. So this new freebie is leveraging your brand as a money making tool because I feel like most business owners, they think their brand is just about, oh just needs to look pretty, I don't need to spend a lot of money on it, because it's not worth anything besides looking pretty. But the truth is that your brand is actually a business tool. And when you use it properly, it can help you make more money. And so this is a 4 part video workshop that will just get delivered in your inbox. And I teach you not only what value your brand can bring to your business, but how to actually use it to make more money. And we talked about websites and a little bit about marketing and how to plan the perfect branding project. So you can get that at Happyland creative.com/money. maker who I like that so much. Yeah, I'm really excited. I have another freebie, the mother of all marketing calendars, and I've had that one for a couple of years now. It's popular people love it. But I'm really excited to have this new like leveraging your brand. Yeah,

Unknown: 49:32

it's always fun to come up with like a new fresh one where you're like, super jazzed about it.

Brittany Wong: 49:36

Yeah, just something new to do. Yeah,

Unknown: 49:39

thank you. Okay, I will make sure all of that is linked. Thanks so much for you know, asking the questions and being brave, even though you have moments for like, I don't know about this, but

Brittany Wong: 49:50

I appreciate this so much more than you know, because I feel like so many people just try to get keep everything and they're like, Well, you gotta hire me, or you gotta pay for this or whatever. And I'm like, Okay, I could probably Google it if I knew how. And also like, I don't know about you, but 2024 is like a weird time to be in business. And I just appreciate making new internet friends who are like, Hey, we're all in this together and like, let's help each other out. So thank

Unknown: 50:20

you, of course. Alright, if you listening think of any questions. There will be of course the Submit a Question button in the show notes. So don't be shy. If you have a question. Let me know. And of course, Brittany, if you have any other questions, you can submit them there too.

Brittany Wong: 50:34

I just might.

Brittany Herzberg: 50:37

Okay, cool. I will talk to you next time.