Shannon Suarez Talks Building Financial Bridges for Educators

Shannon Suarez, a financial advisor with a vibrant 30-year career, provides an introspective look at her professional evolution within the financial services industry. Shannon recounts her early days, beginning with an unexpected start right out of college, leading to her current role as a managing partner with Reliant Financial Services and GWN Securities.

Throughout the episode, Shannon emphasizes the importance of finding a career that utilizes one's skills and ignites passion. She details her progression from working with insurance broker-dealers to serving educators in the 403(b) marketplace and how the financial landscape's changes have shaped her approach to service offerings. Suarez discusses how industry shifts have prompted her to refine her business model and client engagement strategies.

With a clear focus on mentorship and education, Shannon speaks to the value of guiding clients through financial decisions with a teacher's heart, drawing parallels to the philosophy of programs like Dave Ramsey's SmartVestor. The discussion delves into the challenges and strategies of generating leads, navigating marketing within the unique context of Missouri's educational system, and the critical role endorsements and credibility play in establishing trust.

Moreover, Shannon shares candid reflections on the dynamics of teaming experienced advisors with newer talent, the interplay of tradition and innovation in client relations, and the significance of maintaining a personal touch in an increasingly digital world.

Listeners will gain practical wisdom from Shannon's insights on financial planning services, the nuances of advising within a family business context, and the ever-important balance of learning from the past, planning for the future, and living in the present.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

My name is Randy Aranowitz. I am a former president of NATSA. I've been around for too long of a period of time over 30 years as a member. I've been a financial advisor for 40 years and a past executive vice president of Cades Margolis the WowCast series. We will go ahead and have discussions with members talking about all sorts of things related to our industry. We hope you enjoy the series. I have the privilege of speaking to Shannon Suarez today. I have the privilege of speaking to Shannon Suarez today. Shannon is a financial advisor and managing partner with Reliant Financial Services in Kansas City, missouri. She's also a registered representative with GWN Securities. Welcome, shannon.

Speaker 2: 1:00

Hi there, Randy Nice to talk to you this morning.

Speaker 1: 1:03

Hi there, randy, nice to talk to you this morning. It's great to talk to you and we go back, I don't know, through NASA, probably close to 25 years.

Speaker 2: 1:14

I would say so.

Speaker 1: 1:15

Probably longer than that, probably so. Could you go into your professional background how you kind of started in the industry where you are today, approximate number of clients and current assets?

Speaker 2: 1:39

Well, I started my career back in 1990. I started my career back in 1990. I was right out of college and bumped into someone in the elevator I was interviewing for positions. Didn't really know what I wanted to do but was thankful to find something that you know mirrored what I'm good at and what I like to do, because I always tell people that you know I'm mentoring, that you need to when in finding a career, you need to find something that you're good at but that you also enjoy. So when I heard about you know this career opportunity in helping people but also using your technical skills to in ways and and your intellectual abilities to help people find what they need, I just love that. So I started back in 1990.

Speaker 2: 2:43

I've been with three different broker-dealers started out in the insurance industry for the first five years and then transitioned to an independent broker-dealer and then have only changed broker-dealers once since then Started working primarily with educators, so in the 403B marketplace back in the 90s, and then, you know, have transitioned to different aspects as the marketplace has changed.

Speaker 2: 3:15

Cafeteria plan you know we went through a phase in our company where, you know, we focused on cafeteria plan and then recently I partnered with one of our young advisors and we help people with the Dave Ramsey Smart Vestor Program, have been doing that for the last three years.

Speaker 2: 3:39

As you know, randy, it's kind of difficult to get started in this business, and you know and finding ways to generate leads, whether that's through endorsements you know our company has also had a statewide teacher union endorsement. Now, missouri is not known for its union activities, so our endorsement here we're known as the show me state for a reason and you know. So Missouri is not known for its union support, so our endorsement doesn't carry a whole lot of weight, but it certainly has helped us as a company develop a reputation and have the contacts for marketing, because it's all about finding how are you getting your name out there and then how do you find the clients that you can help? So that's how and I've been doing it and you have about how many clients, I have about 300, what I would consider 300 clients and in terms of assets under management, I have about 30 million.

Speaker 2: 5:01

About 30 million. And what are the types of products and services that you offer prospects and clients? Well, now, we offer, you know, variable annuities are much more uncommon in our arena and we offer mostly advisory services, which, of course, is strictly assets under management for a compensation structure. And we do a small amount of, you know, fixed annuities and life insurance. You know in the old days they used to call that ancillary products. You know anything that is outside. You know an investment is, you know, something that someone might need. You know. But we're fully, I'm fully licensed to offer any of those and I think it's important to be able to have the objectivity by offering those other services and if you're going to put yourself out there as a financial advisor, you have to be able to say you can offer these other products.

Speaker 1: 6:19

Do you offer financial planning services and, if so, how do you offer it?

Speaker 2: 6:24

Well, that is just part of putting together our financial plans for our clients. We do not charge for that, and I know that there are many advisors that use that structure and use it successfully, particularly when you're looking at either a small net worth client who you know doesn't really need a full out financial plan, so you're just charge a base fee to help them get started, or, on the other hand, you have highly sophisticated investors that don't want to pay AUM and they just want to pay a flat fee to make sure they're on the right track. We I have not done that, but I know that there are many that do that and are successful at doing that. In putting together our financial plans, they're just part of meeting with the clients, assessing their needs and then determining what they should do next. What we call that? We don't even really call it a financial plan. We call it a financial blueprint, and a financial blueprint includes what we call four points, and this is compliance approved, and this is compliance approved, by the way, which is important we call it.

Speaker 2: 8:03

We organize their resources. We identify concerns, either known or unknown. You know it's not necessarily what the clients tell us they're concerned about. It's things that we identify that they should be concerned about, and then we develop a plan and then we grow wealth and manage risk. Those are essentially the four things that we do. You meet with the client, you consult with them, find out what their resources are, identify what they should be thinking about even if they're not hear what they have to say about what their concerns are, develop a plan to help them get to where they want to go, and then just help them fly the plane, so to speak.

Speaker 1: 8:36

From a marketing standpoint. You mentioned the Missouri Education Association and the endorsement that your firm has. That, since it's not really that much of a pro-union state, it really hasn't led to much. But I imagine there's certain marketing techniques that you're using, maybe seminars or being able to get into some of the association meetings that maybe your competitors can't get into.

Speaker 2: 9:15

A hundred percent.

Speaker 1: 9:16

Are there things that you can do to get an advantage by?

Speaker 2: 9:20

having that endorsement. It is a huge advantage because it's all about getting your message out to people that here's who we are, here's what we do and here's how we can help you. And in having an advantage of having that audience, it's a warmer introduction by knowing that you're vetted by another organization. You're not just some person off the street or someone trying to sell, sell you something, you know. I don't know how many times I've heard that over my career, and I'm sure you have too. What are you trying to sell me? Well, my answer has always been I'm not trying to sell you anything. You know, if I can help you, I'm going to help you. If I can't, you know, that's fine. You need to find, you know, we want the best for you. So, getting your message out that you're not trying to sell someone something, you're out there either, through doing seminars, by engaging that way, you know, having the heart of a teacher I don't want to bring up Dave Ramsey again, but that's part of why they select the advisors that they do in their program you have to have the heart of a teacher and I think that us, most of us in NATSA, coming from an education background, we've always been, you know, in our heart and soul it's always been about helping people and having the heart of a teacher and teaching people what they need to know about financial planning so that they save enough for retirement. We all know I just read an article this morning about how you know how the baby boomers have not saved enough money. So that means me, as the daughter of a baby boomer. We're going to have to help our parents in retirement and I have to tell you that's already happening now. So that was obviously no surprise to me, you know, and it's always been about trying to help people find a way to save money, whether that's through, you know, helping them figure out their expenses, pay off debts.

Speaker 2: 11:35

People need to save more money and if we do the we do, we help people every day, make sure that they're saving money, and I have heard many times over the years clients who you know I'll meet with them and they'll have saved in a place that's maybe hasn't been the best and they'll say, well, I shouldn't have done this. The answer is no, you should have done this. It's important to assess later the fact that you saved the money and you have the money. There is so much better than if you had done nothing at all. So having anyone saving money any place, even if it's the worst place in the world except for Bitcoin, by the way that was probably not a good investment.

Speaker 2: 12:24

But saving money, it's so important. As we know, the pensions will not be enough for them, and the sooner that people understand that the pension is not enough, the better. And having the education arena and be able to talk through the associations, it's an incredible service to their arena and be able to talk through the associations. It's an incredible service to their members to be able to say we have these financial advisors and they are here to help you. They're not here to sell you anything.

Speaker 1: 12:59

Absolutely. Are you using seminar marketing?

Speaker 2: 13:03

Do you do that? I'm sorry, the video cut out. What did you say?

Speaker 1: 13:10

Are you using seminar marketing at?

Speaker 2: 13:13

all. We have utilized that in the past a lot to great success, and I believe that seminar marketing works. We've used it extensively and most of the reps with our company. That is how you get started seminar marketing, I can tell you have probably seen it as well, randy. There's an evolution in your career. You know I started my career doing mostly seminars and cold calling. You know the list of NEA members and you know that's how I got started and it's a great way to get started. It's a great way to learn quickly what you know, what works and what doesn't work. It's trial by fire, but you know, having the seminar experience, seminars are great. You know it's all about explaining who you are, what you do and give them some nugget of wisdom to take away with them. Again, it's about helping people.

Speaker 1: 14:27

Absolutely, absolutely. You mentioned Dave Ramsey. Could you maybe give us a little bit of an overview of how that program works and how it benefits you in terms of getting leads and working with people, right?

Speaker 2: 14:44

benefits you in terms of getting leads and working with people. Well, right. So it's all about where are you getting your name out there? So, whether it's an endorsement from an organization that's getting your name out there and, as we discussed before, that also gives you credibility. It gives you instant credibility because you've been vetted credibility. It gives you instant credibility because you've been vetted. The same thing with the Dave Ramsey program. They vet you and then if someone, you get leads from them.

Speaker 2: 15:15

And because the Dave Ramsey is what he's either liked or hated, there's a couple of guys in our office that do not like him. I look at it as most of my values align, as an advisor, with what he says. There's less than 10% of what he says that I do not agree with, so I can live with that. It's kind of like a marriage You're not going to agree with your spouse a hundred percent of the time. So it has been. It's a way to have people who need help connected with someone that can help them, and that has been the past three years. It's been beneficial. And the other advantage of being a SmartVestor Pro is that once a month we have mastermind meetings with other advisors. Everyone is independent All of the SmartVestor Pros are with independent BDs, so they value independence, and so once a month, we meet with other SmartVestor pros, find out what's working, what's not working, challenges and how to remain focused on helping people focused on helping people and the leads are coming from his radio show and it comes to you in a certain territory.

Speaker 2: 16:54

Yes, it's all territorial based and it's generally through their website, I believe. And then what happens is we get an email saying this person wants to talk to a smart vest or pro, and we have their email and their phone number and then we decide as advisors how we want to communicate with them. You know, call them, text them, send them an email and they we compete against four other advisors at the same time who are equally qualified. So each name that goes out and I know it's always a surprise to the person who reaches out they don't know that they're. I call it releasing the hounds. You know, and I joke with you know I'll say I'm. I may be the first person that's called you, but you need to know that there's going to be four others and they're like oh my, I'm, like Dave wants to make sure you have a wide choice, you know, of advisors to choose from. Not everyone's going to be a good fit for you and, um, you know we're just here to help.

Speaker 1: 18:09

So how do you differentiate yourself as one of the four and get the business?

Speaker 2: 18:14

Well define, differentiate, because we are what we are, right and our job is to be able to clearly communicate who we are and what we do. And it's not. I don't know what I've seen is. It's not necessarily about being different. It's about having the right connection with that person. As you know, we're in a human relations business. It's about connecting as another human with the other person and understanding what they need. And not all personalities match In terms of products. We all have essentially the same products, right? There's no difference. We all.

Speaker 2: 19:06

Everyone has a different ability or skillset, and I have partnered and that leads me to so differentiating ourselves. One is my experience, but I've also partnered with a younger advisor and as a team. I always say you get a team of financial advisors when you talk to us. You get the old person who doesn't run as fast as Jack, and then and, and, but I'm seasoned or I don't know. So it it's. I have found that that works is that you know hat teaming and older advisor with you know, a younger rep. It has worked out pretty well for us.

Speaker 2: 20:13

I was extremely intimidated when we joined because I looked at some of the other websites of some of the other advisors that we are competing against, and some of them have in-house accountants, have in-house estate attorneys. We do not have that, so we're going to lose every time and we have to be okay with that because we don't have that and that's not our model. These other four advisors and this is a high net worth client in excess of 2 million in investable assets, and he asked us about the fact that we don't have an in-house accountant, that we don't have an in-house estate planning attorney. So then you just ask more questions Well, what do you like about this or that?

Speaker 2: 21:10

And then there are advantages to bundling and there are disadvantages to bundling, and we're all seeing that now with our cable bills. What we thought was a good deal, now the prices are creeping up, it's not necessarily a good deal. So I think and in the example of this high net worth client, I just think that we connected on a human level. So you have to be and I was able. We have accountants. Of course, like many too, it's important to have connections with other professionals. So we have connections to accountants and we were able to connect them him and his wife to another accountant. So having if you don't have something, it's important to outsource it.

Speaker 1: 22:03

Sure, being a woman in this industry 30 some odd years ago I'm sure had its challenges. What unique challenges did you face starting out in this business, and were there any mentors that kind of helped you along the way and gave you advice?

Speaker 2: 22:29

That's a great question, randy. I mean, yes, I have had mentors and in terms of challenges, first of all as a woman, I think if you go in thinking it's a challenge, it's going to be a challenge. I never considered it a challenge ever. And you can't let small things you know, no matter if you're a man or a woman. You can't let that one person that says something negative, whether it be gender, or that you're short, or that you're, you know, balding, or you know, or Native American, you know, would it race, you know, whether racism, gender, you know whatever. You cannot let that hold you back. I never let it hold me back and I never considered it a disadvantage. I always thought, okay, I'll show you.

Speaker 2: 23:24

And I did have my mentor, christina Gears. I think she was a member of NATSA for a while, christina Winters Gears and when I was right out of college I had heard about her, I knew she was already well-respected in the industry and I met her at a work function for the first time and I asked her. I said I've heard a lot about you, I'm new to the business. What do I need to do to be successful? I really want to do this. And she looked me up and down like a man, paused for a moment and said you need to get some glasses, pull your hair back, dress conservatively. And she said you need to be smarter, faster. You need to know everything about your competitors. You need to know, you know, you need to know everything about everything product placement, competition. She said you need to know it inside and out. And if you do that, you'll be successful. And I was very thankful for that. So I went out. I did not wear glasses, but I went out and I bought the coolest pair of fake glasses that I could find, bought the coolest pair of fake glasses that I could find, and I wore those. I still have them.

Speaker 2: 24:52

And you know, I always wore my hair back. As you see, now it's not down because I don't it's down, I don't care. But back then so much so that I'd had a client for 15 years I bumped into him at the mall and my hair was down and he's like you look really familiar with me. To me I was like Dr Haley, it's me. And he was like oh my God, I didn't even recognize you. So you know, that was just the image. Right? You, whatever, that, whatever is expected of you, you have to do it and that was, that was what I felt was expected of me. You know, I needed to dress the part, I needed to act the part and I needed to have the knowledge to back it up. So that was that was.

Speaker 2: 25:43

That was an Epic moment in in my life was to well and to know that you do have to be better than others, or you have to at least be able to pretend to explain that you're better than others. It's all about we're in a very competitive situation, so making sure that you have the knowledge, and I do think that NATSA, that was very I'm not trying to plug NATSA, but early in my career, the first time I went to a NATSA convention, it blew me away. I thought these are my people, we all are doing the same thing. I learned so much because there are so many different ways to be successful in this industry and to be around other people that were going through the same struggles that I was going through had the same challenges, and they were. We were all figuring it out together so that collaboration and understanding what others are contending with.

Speaker 2: 26:53

You know, when I went through business college, I was told we were not allowed in this particular class, to use the word problem. So, if you notice, in everything that I'm talking about, I talk about challenges, I talk about you know issues, because nothing is a problem. It's all about finding the solution and finding out a workaround to get around it. It's not right. It's an opportunity to learn, an opportunity to look at things from a different perspective, and I think that's one of the great things about our industry it keeps us young. Look at us. We've been here for over 30 years.

Speaker 1: 27:40

Right, right right.

Speaker 2: 27:42

We're still cranking along, but it's an evolution, don't you think, Randy?

Speaker 1: 27:51

Oh, absolutely, and that's going to lead to a further question that I'm going to go into. Uh, given you that advice many years ago and kudos to you for taking it in the right way and turning it into, uh, something that could help you throughout your career. Um, I had the privilege of interviewing Christina on one of the wow casts, uh a year or two ago and, uh, I was blown away with, uh, some of the things that she has accomplished in her attitude and everything.

Speaker 2: 28:32

Unstoppable, Unstoppable. Nothing is a problem for her. It's a challenge and a great, a great leader in our industry, one of the pioneers in our industry, our industry, one of the pioneers in our industry and, um, um, you know, it's giving me goosebumps right now. She, I mean she, she, she built an empire and um, and I have the unfortunate, uh situation of having my daughter consider going to work for Christina down in Dallas and worked with her for several weeks and I still, to this day, Allison, will say to me well, Christina wouldn't do it that way, or Christina, and I'm just like OK, and so to that I say I am not Christina, I am not worthy, I you know, I just have to do it my way.

Speaker 2: 29:32

That's the other thing I would say. You just got to be yourself too.

Speaker 1: 29:38

Absolutely Well. I would encourage other NATSA members to download the WowCast with the interview with Christina and I think there's good messaging there. A follow-up question that I had where were you five to 10 years ago compared to where you are professionally today and what have you done that has substantially helped you to grow your business?

Speaker 2: 30:09

Well, a little over 10 years ago, that's when we joined our current broker-dealer. So that was a huge time of transition for us and it really propelled us to focus on some of the things that you and I discussed earlier. What is our message? What is our value proposition? Who is it that we are? It was a reinvention as a company. Who are we? And so I would say that the thing that has helped propel us is getting our message down and identifying what it is that the people want.

Speaker 2: 30:57

Look at us on a Zoom cast. Would we have done that 10 years ago? No, that wouldn't have even happened. That wouldn't have even happened. You know it's an evolution and always determining what is required, what is needed. When you lose something, then you say, well, you have to figure out. Well, what happened and how can I improve upon that.

Speaker 2: 31:34

So you know, developing, integrating the new technologies obviously has been incredibly important. You know upgrading systems. You know our CRM. You know we've gone through a whole revamp of updating our CRM and using that in a more effective manner. I also you know client communications. You know this isn't really something new, but well, I guess I've always sent out Christmas cards. In the last, since the pandemic. I have enclosed a little card with just like a message from a personal message from me, something to think about, and I've done that for the last four years and I get just positive feedback. It's connecting with your clients. As a human, I think that, as AI becomes more prevalent, I'm looking to the future, too and looking at potential challenges down the road. That human connection and having you know something other than this, something that's algorithm, algorithmically determined you know portfolios with someone that you never speak, with, someone that doesn't know you I think that that's going to I really think that that's going to continue to be important.

Speaker 1: 32:47

Right, what are the software packages that you're using within your agency?

Speaker 2: 32:53

We use Redtail, both for CRM and for email, and we use marketing. It's FMG Suite. Now we use FMG Suite. So for our drip campaigns I can say that, you know and for like holiday messages via email, birthday wishes.

Speaker 1: 33:24

What are you using for financial software, financial planning?

Speaker 2: 33:29

I use. There are. Well, there are three different things I use. One is through Orion. Orion is a platform and they have financial planning software that we can utilize. And I also use believe it or not Track, I believe with Ed Dressel. I still use that because it is powerful, it's easy to use and it's succinct. It's straightforward and for simpler cases. And then I just have a handful of spreadsheets that I have developed over the years that there's a, you know, for life insurance planning, social security analysis, distribution planning.

Speaker 1: 34:30

It's but again, it's simple and it's just a spreadsheet. Yeah, yeah, could you share with me one or two of your achievements that you're most proud of in, you know, in the last year or so?

Speaker 2: 34:49

You mean like business achievements.

Speaker 1: 34:54

Yeah, yeah. What have you accomplished within your practice that you're really proud of? Whether it's a, a client case that you never thought that you would get and they went to you or something, and running the practice.

Speaker 2: 35:09

One of the big things that happened in 2023 is my daughter had joined our firm. Thankfully, she didn't join Christina. My daughter joined our firm. She had worked for a big wealth management firm in Kansas City that only works with high net worth clients, and she was very unsatisfied there because she just was not connected to the clients. She saw, you know, over the years, how we're actually connected to our clients, we care about them, and so she came to work for me a little over a year and a half ago and so for the first, you know, nine months or so, I think, she gave me a pass. She just kind of observed what I did and I heard a lot of Christina doesn't do it that way, you know. Or creative or creative planning doesn't do it. That you know. Or creative or creative planning doesn't do it. That you know, whatever the company was. And and then we started, you know, through that process. I'm like, yeah, that would be great to have that, but that's on what I called my macro list. Everyone has a macro list. It's not essential to your business today, but would be great to have it and I know it would enhance the relationship we have with our clients. So we started, she said well, I'm making a list of all these things that you'd like to do and you think you know, and we collaborated on that. So, starting last year, she tactfully or not so tactfully pointed out we're not getting any of the macros done and I finally said, okay, well, we're going to focus on the macros.

Speaker 2: 36:54

Some of the macros were we put together a binder for our clients. It's a financial planning binder and it has. We put their net worth statement in there. They put their statements, but it's something that the higher end wealth management firms they give them a financial binder. So we developed this binder and it was a massive. I mean, it took a lot of time to figure out which binder we were going to use, which quality, what we're going to put in the binder, what are the titles and how's it going to look, and then you know, finding the companies that would produce it. It was a big production and we finally got that done, got great feedback from clients. Yes, this is something that I've needed and again, it's it's it's a gift to them and it helps them stay organized and, you know, because it's a gift, it helps tighten the relationship. They're appreciative of that.

Speaker 2: 37:57

So we did that we also updated our. We have a one page statement of who we are as a company and what we do. It's just one page. That was huge because people have short attention spans today and they can glance through that real quickly and say, okay, this is who they are, this is what they do. And then we have a second page of this is what our process are. We go through a series of meetings, we develop your plan, we present the plan and there's a bunch of bullet points under that. But sometimes when especially when they're coming from outside they don't know who we are. They don't even know about financial planning. They've never had a financial planner before. They don't even know what the process is. So having that on one page that shows them this is actually what the process is and this is what we do in each step, that was helpful. And then we have you know.

Speaker 1: 38:56

By the way, you sent me a copy of both those different pages that you described, and I thought it was very well done. It also included your background, that's page three is right, our background.

Speaker 2: 39:09

It's just a short. It's even shorter than the one page bio that I sent you. That was what I used to send clients. The long one, that's one entire book that they're not going to read through anymore. No one's going to read through that stuff. So, having just a, no one's going to read through that stuff.

Speaker 1: 39:27

So having just a. I also thought one of the lines in here at the bottom are independence and virtually unbound investment choices. Allow us to live true to our motto Do the right thing every time you could rely on relying I thought that was well done.

Speaker 2: 39:47

Well, thank you, thank you. I mean that is we do it right or we don't do it at all. I say that all the time and in my Christmas messages to my clients this year. My dad just turned 86. And a lot of my values come from my father. He's a German. He worked hard. He taught us to work hard. He taught us to give 100 percent, no matter what it is that you're doing at all, is what he always taught me.

Speaker 2: 40:29

So, and you do it right or you don't do it at all, so it's doing the right thing every time is really part of that. The another motto that I have that is not in there, but it's in my email signature and this I say I say this every week multiple times, especially to new people I meet, because they'll be saying well, I did this wrong, or I probably made mistakes here in my financial dealings, and I was like you have to learn from the past. So my motto this is my motto, my personal motto learn from the past, plan for tomorrow but live for today. And that's actually stolen from from Charlie Daniels.

Speaker 1: 41:14

So learn from the past.

Speaker 2: 41:16

We all have to do that plan for tomorrow. That's what we're in the business of doing is helping people. You have to plan for tomorrow. It is coming, whether you like it or not, but we still have to live for today. So it's that balance of how much, you know, am I saving too much for retirement? Am I saving not too much? And should I go on that vacation this year? We're not promised tomorrow either. So we still have to plan for tomorrow, but we still have to live for today because we don't know what's happening.

Speaker 1: 41:54

And that's a quote from Charlie Daniels.

Speaker 2: 41:56

I never knew he had some autism. Randy, you obviously didn't read my email signature.

Speaker 1: 42:03

You know, I probably glanced over.

Speaker 2: 42:06

I say that, I say that every. I really embrace that because it's so powerful, it's, and I call it. You have to learn, you have to plan, but you have to live. So it's learn, plan, live.

Speaker 1: 42:22

Do you get clients?

Speaker 2: 42:23

Yeah, I mean they're like that's great because you have seen it, we've all seen it as advisors. People say, oh well, I haven't saved enough, or I made this mistake or I made that mistake, like we've all made mistakes, that's OK, you just have to learn from it. You have to learn from your mistakes. So you have to learn, but then you have to plan. You have to not repeat those mistakes, you have to plan so that that doesn't happen again. And you still have to live for today and enjoy.

Speaker 1: 42:57

So, speaking of mistakes, what would you say is one of the larger mistakes that maybe you made in your career that taught you the best lesson in moving forward to where you are now?

Speaker 2: 43:13

Oh wow, that's a good question.

Speaker 1: 43:19

I'm full of good questions, that's the biggest mistake anything you wish you would have done differently. You know in, in, in your practice, or with working with a client or or whatever, and then you learn from.

Speaker 2: 43:44

I think that, um, one of the I I can't think of anything off the top of my head the the biggest thing that comes to mind is that, um, being slow to change. Um, you know, you, you have to evolve in this business. I would say that the things that I regret I shouldn't even say regret, the things that I wish I had done differently is just embrace, change more than I did, and it would have helped me from a career, you know perspective, a career, you know perspective, and what that means is you know being able to see what's happening out there. You know whether it be with an individual, an employer or the marketplace, and being able to discern what's happening and how to change and evolve quickly enough Because and evolve quickly enough Because you know, I think about how we used to be involved with cafeteria plans more than we're involved now.

Speaker 2: 44:54

The marketplace changed. We didn't evolve with it. It wasn't necessarily anything that we did wrong, but it evolved away from us, and either you're evolving with it or you're in. If you do nothing, it's still a decision, right, it's still is impactful. By doing nothing, the stream keeps rolling on. So be just, um, I would say, being focused enough, being more focused on identifying what the challenges are and being able to evolve with it, because once we evolved away from that, then you have to find a new direction to go to keep relevant and to keep generating business.

Speaker 1: 45:43

Right, I think of a company like Brother Typewriter. Way back when I was in high school, I had a typewriter from Brother Corporation and I think they're out of business because maybe they didn't see change and they thought the typewriter was going to be everything. And then all of a sudden, uh, word process.

Speaker 2: 46:10

Right For sure. So they didn't.

Speaker 1: 46:12

they're they're a prime example of that, and it can. It happens to us too. Yeah, yeah, um, working with your, your daughter, uh, I'm sure has its uh pros and cons, and I also. For like the last seven years or so, I've been working with my daughter and I love it. It's wonderful and it's terrific when they're able to give you feedback on how you're doing things and you have to stop and listen and take it in Right and you know, but it's, it's another set of eyes and everything. How has it been working with your daughter? What are the pros and cons and how do you see that business relationship developing, going forward?

Speaker 2: 47:01

Well, I, I see many more pros and I don't see cons. I, you know it's she. The advantages are that number one. You know you have someone who is has your best interests at heart, right, so you always have to approach whatever feedback they give you. You know they have their best interests at heart, so that is an advantage. Another advantage is that they're younger and they bring fresh ideas and they know more about what some you know. I said one of the disadvantages not changing with the times. Having someone who's younger and is more is more in tune. I can't tell you how many times I've said but I've always done it that way, but I've always done it that way, and she's like we can't do it that way anymore. So, um, one thing I will say she'll never get me to stop doing this will say she'll never get me to stop doing this.

Speaker 2: 48:09

There's my yellow pad, she, you know the move is to go electronic with everything and it makes sense, um, but I still have to take my notes and, um, that way I commit it to memory. So that's the advantages. Are they? They bring things to your attention. Um, if you have someone, number one, they have their. You have to always approach it. You know they have your best interests at heart, um, you also know that you have experience where they may give you some feedback and they are, um, they are passionate about this particular view and you know, because you have been doing it for 20 or 30 years, that that's not how it's going to work in real life application. So, you know, I think there are many more pros and she is working on getting licensed now and you know we hope to have that done within the next, you know, three months or so. She's working on studying.

Speaker 1: 49:17

Wonderful. You have multiple hats that you wear because you also co-run the agency right, so let's talk about that. How do you manage between your practice and then managing the agency? And could you describe your agency a little bit? You know how many reps do you have? You know, do you do sales meetings? How do you motivate people?

Speaker 2: 49:47

How do you keep them on?

Speaker 1: 49:48

track.

Speaker 2: 49:49

We are a loosely held agency, meaning that every person is considered an independent advisor. Most of them are very experienced, most of the advisors we have. We have two new advisors and then when Allison joins and we have purposefully remained small, so we don't we have, we have meetings, you know, two to three times a year with all of our reps, and that's. We don't direct them as to how they run their own individual businesses. We all have an office, you know, downtown, but you know most of us are in and out and we may not see each other for weeks.

Speaker 2: 50:39

So so you don't set, help them set goals no not and hold them accountable for certain goals and things Um that isn't how it has worked, and even with my partner, jack um, who we partner on the Ramsey program, he he was brand new to sales. He worked for American Century in the call center, and this is something from a business structure. When I think of expanding our business, or any other you know NATSA member, we're always looking at trying to make sure that we perpetuate the company right. So in order to do that, we are going to have to replace our, you know, advisors who, like me, are closer to the end than the beginning. So, in that being said, how do we identify the right candidates? Because I can't tell you how many people we have mentored over the years that just did not work out, and you've seen it, I'm sure that just did not work out, and you've seen it, I'm sure.

Speaker 2: 51:50

That being said, so how do you find a good candidate? Number one I think that candidate needs to be self-driven, meaning a good work ethic, competitive and self-driven. Self-motivated, yes, you can guide them, but if they don't have that fire, it's just not going to work. They have to have a passion to help people. That's another critical. So the work ethic, passion to help people. And then they also have to have the technical knowledge and communication skills. So when I look at bringing Allison on board, she has all of those attributes. She has all of those. So it's not just that she's my daughter, it's that she has all of those attributes.

Speaker 1: 52:41

It's a good thing. She would not have made the cut. No, she wouldn't have.

Speaker 2: 52:45

That's a good thing. Otherwise she would not have made the cut. No, she wouldn't have. That's a fact. And when I say partnering with Jack, jack has all of those attributes. So even though we have worked together now for a little over three years, he has all of those attributes. He's good, strong, worth it, work ethic, competitive, is smart and he has a true desire to help people.

Speaker 1: 53:13

Yeah, I think a new recruit can have all those attributes and should have all those attributes. But there's still something in how do they survive in the business? It's especially the 403B part. It's slow to get people started. There's probably small dollar cases that they're working. You know, I guess, everybody in the industry that recruits people. They all have their own model. Some people finance a new recruit for some period of time.

Speaker 2: 53:51

And that brings up. You bring up a great point, randy, because the last element is they have to have either support at home or they have to like. In the instance of Jack coming on with us three years ago, he didn't make very much money in year one, but I was there to tell him you just need to stick with it. And you know it was not easy and it's just. I have always said that it's usually not until year three that you know that you're going to make it in this business.

Speaker 2: 54:32

Year one is dismal. I made $10,000 in my first year in the industry $10,000. In year two, and I seriously questioned whether I should do this. Year two, I made $35,000. Still not that great. But then it was in year three that I made $70,000. That was finally when I thought, okay, I know what I'm doing. Year one I did not think I knew what I was doing. Year two I went through the CFP program to study for the CFP. After I went through that coursework I thought, okay, now I know what I'm doing. And then that was year two that I went through that program. And then in year three, finally I was like, okay, I think I can do this, but it was a combination of the work ethic, the knowledge that Christina told me I needed to know the work ethic, the knowledge, and just continuing on.

Speaker 1: 55:35

Yeah, and I think it's having the self-confidence and I'm sure going through the CFP program helped to really give you confidence so that you come across the right way to clients and you really know what you're talking about.

Speaker 2: 55:50

That was knowledge that I mean Allison is going to finish her CFP. She started studying while she was with her other firm and so she will finish the program. Because that was invaluable knowledge. It did give me a lot of confidence that, okay, now I know what I'm doing, you can get all the training from you or me or whatever insurance company. It doesn't give you the in-depth, you know, financial planning.

Speaker 1: 56:24

You better make sure that Christina doesn't hire Allison away.

Speaker 2: 56:30

Well, I'm thankful that Allison had said that she didn't want to be so far from home, so I must have done something right.

Speaker 1: 56:42

Let's talk about community service. What do you do when you're not working? Are you active in my community?

Speaker 2: 56:51

I do have a church that I donate money to, especially at Christmas time, and a food pantry, but I don't have anything organized. In all honesty, I have not done that. I was on my computer last night until 8.30 at night, computer last night until 8.30 at night working on some forecasting numbers, and I still my entire career and I don't right or wrong. And this is where Christina and I differ. My life has always been my work because it is my passion. And then when my children came along, they're my passion so I do things to make their lives better. I do things to help them.

Speaker 2: 57:56

You know projects. I'm handy, believe it or not, I know a lot. I know how to build a lot of things, so I will help. You know I've helped my kids with things like that. You know constructing things and remodeling things and and that that is my therapy is. You know I enjoy my work and I love it, but my downtime is working on a project you know for, for my kids or for my parents, and that's I give back, I guess selfishly, in that way.

Speaker 1: 58:39

Wow Are. Is there anything else that we haven't covered that you would like to talk about?

Speaker 2: 58:50

I can't think. I can't think of anything. Randy, you had some really tough questions there.

Speaker 1: 58:57

Yeah, I stayed up all night thinking about it. You're not going to throw her this curveball, exactly? Um, I, I do want to, uh, to tell one last story. I think it was probably 25 years ago or so. Our agency, cades Mergolis, was looking to get into flex spending and offering other products via cafeteria, types of plans and Reliant Financial Services, was already doing that and doing that very successful. And of course, we knew you and we knew your former husband, mike Polakowski, and you guys were gracious enough to invite myself and Ed Margolis to come over and actually we wound up staying with you and you had some things set up. I think Ed went with some people in your agency and I had the privilege of going with you and we wound up going to several different schools and I remember Betty, betty.

Speaker 2: 1:00:08

Abishan Betty.

Speaker 1: 1:00:10

Abishan Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, she was helping you with some of the setup and you were doing the public presentation for the flex spending and the cafeteria programs. Then we went into the schools and I remember since you're in the Midwest there there was a tornado that was coming through when we were in the school and me being from the Northeast or whatever it was like what's happening. Everybody's going into the basement of the school and all the kids and us and whatever we're all sitting on the floor in the basement.

Speaker 1: 1:00:55

And it was probably I don't know 20 minutes, a half hour. I never had that experience before. And then afterwards I remember you said to me, once everything was clear and we were able to leave, you said you knew of a winery that was a year old and we wound up going out and have a nice bottle of wine and everything. But you allowed us to actually learn from you and from the agency. Actually learn from you and from the agency, and really my heart goes out to you for taking the time and really helping to train us on that portion of the business.

Speaker 2: 1:01:35

Thank you, oh well, you're welcome. It was my pleasure, honestly. And, randy, that is what this business is about is collaboration, and that's part of, too, too, I think, what NATSA brought. That's what brought you and I together originally, and it's about sharing ideas, sharing the knowledge, and hopefully someone can get a few nuggets of wisdom to learn, and they won't have to buy fake glasses. And please tell me that the video that you made of me at that time will never surface anywhere.

Speaker 1: 1:02:19

No, it's on different media and I don't even think I have the camera anymore on that, but now you're maybe challenging me to look, so I don't think I have the camera anymore on that, but now you're maybe challenging me to look, so I don't know. Shannon, it's been great reminiscing with you and hearing different stories and congratulations on the success that you have enjoyed over the years and thank you for being a member of NATSA and being one of the people that members can reach out to and have a real conversation with.

Speaker 2: 1:02:55

Anytime, I'm happy to help. Thanks, randy, I appreciate you.

Speaker 1: 1:02:59

This is Randy Aranowitz and Joey Santos-Jones signing off, and we look forward to interviewing our next member on the WowCast 2.0. Thank you for listening and we hope that you've learned from this WowCast series. Your members are able to download the WowCast by going to wwwntsa-netorg. Slash wowcast W-O-W-C-A-S-T and you'll be able to download all the past episodes as well as the new ones. Thank you.