25.Wellbeing - Journey to Inner Calm and Conflict Mastery

Discover the transformative secrets to resolving conflicts and understanding the power of perspective. Our enlightening conversation peels back the layers of mental conditioning, illustrating why embracing multiple viewpoints can lead to more empathetic relationships and parenting approaches. We navigate through the art of spiritual intelligence and the importance of personal transformation over changing others, promising a fresh outlook on how you perceive and engage with the world.

This episode isn't just about theory; it's a practical guide to living in harmony. From the awe of firsthand experiences that reshape our worldviews to the common goals that unite families and organizations, we tackle the essentials of cooperation and the pressing responsibilities of our politicians. Our candid dialogue extends to the internal struggles we face, offering solace in the universal journey towards achieving inner peace amidst life's discord.

Finally, we explore the profound impact of meditation and self-reflection in mastering the mind, fostering self-empowerment, and enhancing our relationships. As we share insights on nurturing our inner selves to better traverse our environments, we invite you to join us on this thought-provoking journey. You'll walk away with the tools to refine your discernment and embrace a life of openness and wisdom.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

Namaste Aditya Tamalesanas. My name is Sunil. I'm with Swami Tadananda from the Ramakrishna Vedanta Center of Auckland, new Zealand. How are you, swamiji? I'm very good, sunil, thank you. How are you? I'm good, thank you. I'm good, swamiji. In the last episode we talked about perspectives and then we finished by saying we'll carry on talking about different points of view. I suppose all we can do today is start by looking at conflict resolution, conflicts, how different points of view can create a conflict, and what we've learned over the last few episodes can help us with conflict resolution.

Speaker 2: 1:05

I think, yeah, it's a good way to application of what we've been talking about. So I suppose this what we've been discussing in the last two episodes needs a good deal of reflection, introspection, so that we are mindful of this truth while we are dealing with people. What are the things we have to be mindful of? That? To start off, our own minds have been conditioned in a particular way. We are not seeing the truth, we are seeing things as they appear to our own minds. Okay, no one has got the absolute truth.

Speaker 2: 1:44

Everyone has got a perspective or view of it and, in the same token, every other person, being differently constituted, has their own point of view, opinion, thought, why. It's not that they choose to have a different opinion, it is that's how they are constituted. If you had a microscope or something like that, you could zoom into their mind and say, ah, this is how it is. And now I understand why this person is expressing that view and opinion. It's not that he, everyone, is really at the mercy of how their mind is programmed. So to say, and other good people, that it is what they are, so what they are. But and with that knowledge and insight, there's a lot of opportunity, because we are not living on an island alone. We are always interacting with people. The world is interacting with us and we are in interacting with the world. And some people do very well. You know, they're calm, quiet, don't get ruffled so easily, don't react, don't have strong opinions, people like the company type of thing. And then there are other people who have very strong opinions, views and very, very what do you call might be very, very strong in in the sense that if they they try to force their view and opinion, they get into an argument, they might get into a fight. All those type of things happen and it creates a lot of conflicts and harm to other people also hurts so many other. So I think it's very important for at least the grown-ups, people who are training others, especially parents, to deeply understand this and try to share this type of insight and understanding, this broadness, to children so that they grow up being very liberal, you might say, accommodative, listening to other people, appreciating everyone, even though they are different points of view, and even if they have to share something they will say in a way and that is not, uh, harm hard violently. You know no anger, no forcefulness, open the minds, have a good communication. If you do that, you'll find that there's a the peace in the, in the group. It could be just a family where everyone respects everyone's views and says you know, you're open to share your views, it's fine with us. Okay, at workplace, everyone is just an open mind. But you're not just trying to be nice type of thing. We are. You understand the psychology of the whole thing.

Speaker 2: 4:36

And then there'll be so many opportunities where one climbs up the ladders of power and influence. Okay, in this world, this modern age, there's so much flow of information. You know, with internet, you know what's happening in other parts of the world. That was not possible 20, 30 years ago. We got filtered news in the newspaper, in TV. Nowadays there's so much. Everyone has got an opportunity put to put up whatever they want in there, and so much good stuff coming. But there's a lot of bad news. There's fake news.

Speaker 2: 5:13

Influencers are there who just try to influence you for the sake of influencing, for popularity or for money or this, and that this truth and falsehood is all mixed up and if it, one does not have that power of discernment, what we call in sanskrit buddhi, oh, let us say spiritual intelligence, a high power above the mind level to which can discriminate, separate one from the other. Then there's a real problem of going down the wrong direction. You'll find they go down the wrong slope, but they do not know that they're on the wrong slope, see. So they think it's absolutely all right, they're making the right decisions.

Speaker 2: 5:59

Like we talked about, you know, conspiracy theorists and all those people are there and people listen to them, listen to them, listen to them until the mind gets so much clouded by those impressions and then they think that is the truth and that's how they behave. Next thing, it influences the behavior. It influences the interaction with other people, how they react to situations, and these are real problems in this world. So I think what we have been discussing about is not so much about trying to change the external world. Can we really get into somebody's mind and recondition it?

Speaker 1: 6:39

No, no, you see, it's so hard, it's very difficult to do, it's not possible to do. Very difficult to do. It's not possible to do. No, exactly it's not possible.

Speaker 2: 6:45

so, but we can do something yeah and we can only change ourselves.

Speaker 2: 6:49

We can change ourselves, okay, and I think that's a good starting point that's a good one yeah, and and so, being very alert, mindful, don't rush into judgments, do not react immediately Trying to respond. Give yourself some time. You know always have a good habit. Let me think about it. Yes, okay, and then if you say something, even in a meeting, if you say that's not right or wrong, like that, know, forcefully, it appears to me you smiled away. You know how. Why do you say that type of thing? Ask that person that type of thing? You know you have a good conversation exchange of inquiry mind, even inquiring mind and inquiring mind, very perceptive, sensitive mind, sensitive to other people also.

Speaker 2: 7:38

It all that sort of doesn't make. Already there are differences, but you don't want to make them worse. You want to manage those differences. That people are like different flowers in a garland, but I can find the common thread that will make us work together as a team Common interests.

Speaker 1: 8:00

So, swamiji, do people obviously change their points of view as well? Yeah, work together as a team, common interests. So, swamiji, do people obviously change their points of view as well?

Speaker 2: 8:05

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 8:06

Right, so they might start off in one position, yeah, and then over time they will change their point of view. Different experiences are there, you'll find that you know.

Speaker 2: 8:17

So people come, you talk to them and they give an expression, but you give them new ideas. So they have a different exposure, you know, or a different experience. Depends on how you know, how their minds was sort of conditioned in the first place. For example, you did not have a direct experience of a particular place, a particular person, all so you heard it from somebody else, for example.

Speaker 1: 8:43

I don't know. If you go to Taj Mahal, you can see a nice big structure, a nice big marble building. That's all you sort of know. Yeah, From where?

Speaker 2: 8:53

By looking at some pictures or photos and videos and some descriptions from some people. But when you go and stand there and have your direct experience, that is far, much more powerful. Or let us say, you haven't met somebody You're talking about. Somebody is talking. Are you hearing about that person from other people? Maybe they had different experiences with that person. They're sharing their perspective, their interactions, but while they're driving they are influencing your mind and you keep on listening, listening, listening about that. Maybe that person didn't have a very good experience, so they're telling you negative things about it in your mind.

Speaker 2: 9:31

When you meet that real person first time, you might be diffident, you might not be very open, because that's you're careful, whatever. But when you get to interact with that person, you find it's totally different. You know he's totally opposite and that experience creates new impressions in your mind which are more powerful. And then you say I look all those previous impressions, what we're told by someone. He said, huh, why did that? That's not right. My experience is more powerful. So there are different sources of knowledge, what is called direct knowledge, direct perception. Your personal experience is always more powerful than other sources of information. From inference, from hearing from others. You know others' experiences and that's why you might say, okay, I'm hearing so many things from so many people. I'm going to meet this person, I'm going to go there and see for myself, then I'll make my opinion you know, yeah, so then your point of view can change, right, yeah?

Speaker 2: 10:38

So it's about what is your common interest, you see. So it is about what is your common interest, you see, if genuinely you are interested, that five people in our family that we will promote harmony, take care of each other. That's what family means, and we will accommodate each other. Knowing that we are different, yet something is common to us and that is what we are going to work on. Okay, in an organization, we are here for that. That is what we are going to work on. Okay, in an organization, we are here for that particular purpose. We're different. We bring different type of uh, training and experience and all those things.

Speaker 2: 11:09

What holds everyone together? If that is clear, then people will try to really adjust, accommodate everyone and make it happen, especially people high up in places of of influence and power, for example, in politics. Okay, they're ordinary people. They somehow get to become councillors and then local something, and then, before you know, they can become an mp and next thing they are sitting in the parliament. All right, so they make important decisions, important decisions that affect the whole country, how your money is, tax-based money is used, what projects are there, how they respond to challenges and all those type of things. They're all represented, elected by the people, to go and save them. But if they are focusing in fighting each other the one in government and one in opposition and it's more about more of the differences come out than things that they agree and work on to to save the people, you see, then if that is so, then they've lost the plot.

Speaker 2: 12:16

You know, and we, when we need to read the news and things, most of the time we find it is this you know, when some good is done, then you should acknowledge. It doesn't mean that if you are in the opposition, that you have to shout down everything the other person is saying and you earn the respect of that person. And if you have to say something, then just don't criticize. Give something better. You know, because you are there not to. You know, have one what you call a pen ship, okay, and try to be the more seem to be more powerful, smarter person. No, the purpose the people have elected you is to save the country. Yeah, why can't we work together? Yeah, yeah. And sometimes, you see, you know that's a good example, because we see that read about that all the time in the paper, but in bigger, smaller ways then every group of you know people meet with their two parties. Sometimes it comes, yeah, two different parties.

Speaker 1: 13:19

You see, where there's not a lot of cross-party pollination, or on topics where they could be working together, but they take a party stance rather than the stance of the.

Speaker 2: 13:31

Some countries are there. They do very successful, I think, you know, like Singapore, you see, and that's why you know, there's not so much of shouting and fighting, but the whole energy is generalized to develop the country and they're doing very well. Others are there. It's more about, you know, just too much conflict in there, and unless they learn to manage this, they're supposed to be grown up mature people. And if you say, how do we appreciate each other, see each other's points, you know, maybe they're saying something that really makes sense. You know, if there's some truth in there, I will take that. You know, appreciate that. Thank you for that, you know, then we do a better job. At the end of the day, the world is full of so many conflicts. Internal conflicts are there within us, you know. So you know what we do and what, what's deep in our heart, and they don't resonate.

Speaker 2: 14:21

So we're not at peace with ourselves okay for whatever reason, yeah, and then within the next unit is the family unit. It's not a happy place that you want to return home and find, you know, being loved and being cared for. That makes it all worthwhile that eight hours of hard work you did. Now there's no peace at home, yes, you know. Then you know, fundamentally, something is very wrong. And then you know, within the extended family, okay, fighting families, this and that In the community, differences are there. And then it just grows and grows and grows, you know, and whether it's at a community level or national level, country level and we see there's so much, always so much, fighting in one way or the other around the world. Each one thinks they're right, but look at the tragedies that happen, so much suffering that comes in Because people do not know how to manage themselves. So I think the important thing is what we take out of this is that, yes, we are learning how to interact with other people better, but the real work is to be done about how we make ourselves a better person, how this mind that we have brought can be a better mind at the end of the year, something that you can celebrate about. You know that this year was peaceful. I have grown in my understanding, in my wisdom, in my knowledge. I don't get so much disturbed by people, so much. I can't change the world, but my inner resilience has grown that I don't lose my balance, my poise, and that's what rhythm is all about.

Speaker 2: 16:16

Okay, so you might ask the question how do we do that? Self-care we take care. Many people say you know self-care physical care, you know care. Many people say self-care physical care. We go to the gym, we exercise, we eat well, we sleep well, all the physical things we do. That's easily done. What about self-mental care? Yes, how do we do?

Speaker 1: 16:41

that.

Speaker 2: 16:44

To understand ourselves as mind, to look at others as minds also. So we have been talking about this and this is a very interesting thing. What is the mind? It's a question I ask many people doctors, engineers and educated people, even psychiatrists. Tell me what is the mind? Sometimes you get a very material, physical type of answer from Western science point of view Is it a brain?

Speaker 2: 17:12

It is Well there's a brain and then the neural activities. The neurons are firing away and then it creates some electrical activity. Because they can measure that With the devices they can put and see which lobes of brain are firing away and where the activities are more or less, and so they think that is created by the neurons firing away and the whole together. Is the mind right, alright, while the Vedanta says no, no, no, the brain is the instrument through which the mind, which is energy, subtle energy, works through the mind, which is energy settled energy works through the mind, can exist separate from the brain.

Speaker 2: 17:54

Settle.

Speaker 1: 17:56

Well, yeah it's different.

Speaker 2: 17:59

It can work independent of the brain, did we?

Speaker 1: 18:02

talk about this?

Speaker 2: 18:03

No, no, we haven't talked about this, maybe we should have a little delve into there, just to reflect.

Speaker 2: 18:09

So this is not something really religious or spiritual you're telling there. It's a very common experience that many doctors and medical some people in medical sciences have seen, experienced and documented and verified. It happens on the operation theater when a person is, you know, under anesthesia and the doctors are operating, cutting through, and many a time the person who was operated, when he is revived, comes back. He gives an experience which is called OB, out-of-body experience and what they say. It's very common that while you know, he saw himself up there in the ceiling looking down at the whole thing, he saw his body was there and all the doctors were performing the surgery and they were talking and saying things and this person could hear. Maybe they were saying something not very nice. Also, he heard those things type of things. He's not going to make it. Maybe you know why did you guys say that? You know, I heard you said so.

Speaker 2: 19:12

When he comes and reports and factually the doctors verify yes, that's what exactly happened, you know, and but they, their medical science, cannot explain that why? Because they think how can? The brain is here, the eyes are here. Okay, memory is in the brain here, understanding is here. How can you be an observer from outside. That means what this guy is telling, the patient is telling is that I could see. Yeah, so your eyes are here and shut, how can you see from there? You could hear. Not only that, you could understand. So words, language, that is memories, remember and interpret and understand what he was seeing. He locked it away because afterwards he comes and tells he remembers so this is not one or two cases.

Speaker 2: 20:14

There's so many cases there, and these are by doctors themselves, surgeons, well trained people, scientific people. So these conclusions are there. There is some aspect of us which is subtle, which can operate outside the brain also, which is called the realm of the mind, subtle energy, where thoughts, ideas, emotions, feelings, memory and all those things are there. We have an explanation from of this, from the vedanta perspective, you know. So we say this is a physical body, is the gross body made out of matter, but we all have a subtle body, the mental body, thoughts, ideas, emotions and things. And then there's something even finer than that, which is the causal body, the intelligence body, and then there's something even beyond that, which is just pure consciousness. So there are many dimensions of us and most of us dwell in the physical and a little bit of mind. We use the mind all the time, but we just do not know what it is and how it is. So, uh, we could have some discussions on, you know, the mind itself. What, what is the mind made of? Emotions, emotional part of it. We talked about in the first episode there the different dimensions of a human being and we said within the mind. There's an emotional dimension. How do emotions work? It's a very, very interesting, intriguing subject matter. Okay, because a lot of what we do is not determined by the logic. Reasoning is determined by emotions. Emotions, you know, major decisions we make. And then there is the intellectual part, determined by the logic. Reasoning is determined by emotions, major decisions we make. And then there is the intellectual part of it Reasoning, thinking, planning, concluding and executing things. And then there is the value, the value system, the ethical and the moral compass that says, hey, don't do this or do this type of things, you know. So these three are there, but sitting on top of that is something, another dimension, which we call the spiritual intelligence, the buddhi, the power of discrimination. There's a power.

Speaker 2: 22:21

Every one of us has that capacity to observe our own minds, our own thought processes. Some do it with a lot of clarity, some in a muddled way. That means how much we have been able to separate ourselves from the mind also, right, okay, I am the observer of my mind. I watch my thoughts, how ideas come, how ideas grow, how it develops, how it flows through, how it comes to a conclusion. Okay, and that's where most of the time, we are doing that you know the internal chatter, the talking that is going on is those conversations that are happening there, and that is easier to understand the rational thought process. You can even tell boss or somebody I say how did you come to this conclusion? You can just go down. These are the pieces of information. I put it together in a logical way and this is where I have come.

Speaker 2: 23:16

Somebody say, I can, it makes sense, good, but the one that is difficult to explain is the emotional part of it, you know. So why do you want to do? How do you explain love or kindness or compassion? But these are very powerful energies inside us that determine us. This is a subject matter that I have thought, developed more, and there's a whole science behind it. Maybe we can take it up at some other time. And the moral and ethics part of it how do we decide what, what is right, what is wrong, what is good, what is bad type of thing?

Speaker 2: 24:01

But today, to conclude this, we can talk about this dimension which is called the discrimination buddhi. So I think I have mentioned this before, but it's good to reinforce that all of us have this power of internal observation or reflection, where we observe our own minds and thought processes, that part of mind which is involved in the thinking activity, part of it, some of these activities going on. Let us call that the active mind. It's doing dual thing. And there is another guy sitting within us who is watching those. Let's call that the reflective mind, okay, who is brooding in a detached way, checking out ah, this is good, it's not good.

Speaker 2: 24:53

Maybe I should do this. You know that it that's called the Buddha, or the one that is doing the discrimination, the light he shines, the light. He is like the torchlight that is illuminating the different thoughts and ideas that are there. In picking which one to act on, in which one to not act on, hey, all the thoughts are there in your mind. Somebody comes and so many ideas come. Maybe it's not so many nice things. You know about that person, but you don't simply blab out everything you know, don't put the spotlight on that, yeah, and so you people say, hi, what should I say, what I should not say?

Speaker 2: 25:32

and so who decides someone's doing that right, somebody's discriminating, telling him this is appropriate, this is not politically right, should not say this. And those who have a strong sense of that, you'll find that you know, they manage their actions and behavior speech much better. Others, who don't have much control over them they say something and it comes out. They say something and it comes out, and you know. And then they say I'm sorry, repent, or there was a little slip of the tongue. Yeah, and it happens. The other day one of these very prominent politicians said this also, but you know, and then in this age and time it's not one-to-one conversation.

Speaker 1: 26:15

You speak and half the nation listens to you.

Speaker 2: 26:16

You can't take them back. So, developing this power, so you understand, that is called the buddhi, the power of internal discernment. Discrimination, we all have it. Children, probably it's not much developed there, but as we grow in age, through teenage up to that age where we say they are grown up, mature, okay, we can see that, they can see. And then parents ease off and say let's give them the freedom Because they have developed responsibility, yeah, okay, and they can make the right decisions themselves. Yeah, but it doesn't happen. Naturally, with age of the body, you'll find that sometimes kids are there who have, they're more intelligent, you know, they will give ideas that will surprise the parents as so much wiser. And then you'll find an 80-year-old person also who, on the other hand, who has a whole life of experience, experience, but who makes decisions like a kid. So it's not only the, it's not really the age of the body, it's the age of the soul.

Speaker 2: 27:27

Yes, okay, you know some young body there could be a old soul in an old body, there could be a young soul in there, and we are all learning and growing in experience. So meditation is really about developing, exercising this buddhi. Right in the beginning, early stages, we talked about how strength is acquired and we said exercises are necessary, the nourishment is necessary, yeah, and if you put that, our sufficient duration, that aspect of our personality becomes stronger. So mental strength we all want, but you always need something superior, finer, to control the grosser part of it. Do you get that part? If you want to control something, you have to access a subtler power. To control the grosser, a higher power, something that's a bit higher, yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:37

For example, you know, I move my hand up. So it's a bulky physical thing. But the hand moves up because there are this very fine nerve currents that flow in the nerves. You know they're very minute currents, so that minute current currents can make a hand move up. It can make an elephant move also. But what controls those nerve currents? Well, a thought in my mind said raise your hand up. So thoughts are controlling the nerve currents. Which is then controlling the physical hand, the?

Speaker 2: 29:10

The line is that the gross is always controlled by the finite. So when we say how do I control the mind, the logic says you have to go another level up and that's where this intelligence, or buddhi, spiritual intelligence, comes. And if that spiritual intelligence is not exercised and developed systematically through education, through training or whatever is there, then we will not have the tool by which we can manage the mind. So when it comes, we're coming to an area about mental well-being, okay, and, and most of the time of course, western medical science cbt, cognitive behavior therapy is about brain creates the mind and you control the mind by something physical, which is in drugs and all those type of things.

Speaker 2: 30:04

There our Vedanta, spiritually, would be to understand this different dimensions of the human being and understanding in a very logical way what controls what. And they say there are some very fine muscles, so to say, at the buddhi level, spiritual intelligence level, which needs to be exercised and strengthened, and then we empower the person with the tool by which they can manage their own mind. That would be the real way to go about it and and that is actually we are touching in the area of how to handle mental well-being through a spiritual process.

Speaker 2: 30:45

Yeah, maybe that's a We've covered a lot of these already, yeah, but now we have talked about meditation, but now we're putting in a context of mental health, yeah, and see how it can help ourselves and help people around us and why it's necessary to really practice it. Because meditation regularly, systematically, because that's the best way we can empower ourselves to have mastery over our mind, and that mind then controls our behavior and speech and how we interact with the world and how the world affects us. So maybe we can look at this a little bit more, because that is the key thing that we are sort of driving towards.

Speaker 1: 31:36

Yeah so this is sharpening of Buddha would help us, from a perspective point of view, to have an open mind to look at other people's points of view, and so on. Right.

Speaker 2: 31:47

And separate the sugar from the sand.

Speaker 1: 31:52

Yes, we're doing this through self-reflection things. How are we? What can we do to ourselves to be? Changing rather than trying to change the world, we're trying to change ourselves, and those are the tools that we need. Excellent, that was good, swamiji. We'll finish off there, thank you for your time.

Speaker 2: 32:11

Thank you Welcome.