Cholesterol has been demonized for decades, but have we been wrongfully vilifying eggs, dairy, and red meat? John Propper and I, Justin Gaines, invite you to challenge the status quo as we unravel the misconceptions about saturated fats and their impact on heart health. Our in-depth discussion peels back layers of dietary dogma, starting with Ancel Keys' skewed research that shaped public opinion for generations. As we navigate the historical and current scientific landscapes, you'll discover why it's crucial to merge modern findings with the wisdom of our ancestors' diets. We also scrutinize the influence of popular trends like keto and examine the reliability of tests used to monitor cardiovascular well-being. By the end of our talk, you'll be armed with a fresh perspective on what truly constitutes a heart-healthy lifestyle.
The plot thickens as we dissect the essential yet controversial role of cholesterol in our bodies, and the widespread use of statins. John and I take a hard look at the vital functions cholesterol plays in hormone transportation and neuron protection, prompting you to ponder if statins' 'garbage truck' approach to cholesterol management is always justified. We clarify the differences between esterified and de-esterified cholesterol and how our bodies adeptly adjust cholesterol synthesis in response to what we consume. Diving deeper, we shine a light on the oversights of standard cholesterol testing, advocating for a more sophisticated interpretation of results that can steer us away from unnecessary medical interventions. Together, we invite you to join this critical conversation and empower yourself with knowledge that could redefine your approach to heart health.
Cholesterol has been demonized for decades, but have we been wrongfully vilifying eggs, dairy, and red meat? John Propper and I, Justin Gaines, invite you to challenge the status quo as we unravel the misconceptions about saturated fats and their impact on heart health. Our in-depth discussion peels back layers of dietary dogma, starting with Ancel Keys' skewed research that shaped public opinion for generations. As we navigate the historical and current scientific landscapes, you'll discover why it's crucial to merge modern findings with the wisdom of our ancestors' diets. We also scrutinize the influence of popular trends like keto and examine the reliability of tests used to monitor cardiovascular well-being. By the end of our talk, you'll be armed with a fresh perspective on what truly constitutes a heart-healthy lifestyle.
The plot thickens as we dissect the essential yet controversial role of cholesterol in our bodies, and the widespread use of statins. John and I take a hard look at the vital functions cholesterol plays in hormone transportation and neuron protection, prompting you to ponder if statins' 'garbage truck' approach to cholesterol management is always justified. We clarify the differences between esterified and de-esterified cholesterol and how our bodies adeptly adjust cholesterol synthesis in response to what we consume. Diving deeper, we shine a light on the oversights of standard cholesterol testing, advocating for a more sophisticated interpretation of results that can steer us away from unnecessary medical interventions. Together, we invite you to join this critical conversation and empower yourself with knowledge that could redefine your approach to heart health.
Welcome to the Balance Blueprints podcast, where we discuss optimal techniques for health and finances and then break it down to create an individualized and balanced plan. I'm your host, john Propper, here with my co-host, justin Gaines. In this episode, justin and I talk about the introduction to cholesterol, why certain foods like eggs, dairy and meat have been demonized if they're really as bad as we think and some common tests we can go into to check if we're really at risk for heart disease. Thanks for listening and we hope you enjoy. We'll do a little overview on cholesterol and foods that have been demonized for a while and foods that people still think are bad for them. Unfortunately, the common ones well, any food that contains saturated fat. So whole milk, whole dairy products, eggs, red meat. I think we're slightly getting away from it, but that's mainly because people have jumped to the complete opposite of the spectrum and their snacks are sticks of butter.
Speaker 1:
Right, yeah, everybody in that keto trend does a dirty keto, yeah, yeah, keto is probably the one that. Yeah, dirty keto is probably the one that really, really combated it to start. But either way, there's a middle ground, like we always talk about. But these foods have been demonized and said they're terrible and going to cause heart disease for so long. And I just kind of want to do an intro because there's a lot we'll get into in terms of cholesterol statins tests you can do for yourself routine tests that you can get at the doctor so you don't have to pay anything extra and you can just look at some different numbers. They don't look at a bunch of supplements that can help. But today we'll just, like I said, do the very intro, base level stuff. Let's do it. But, yeah, so I think the biggest event that first happened was there was a researcher, ansel Keys, and I won't get into his whole story, but basically what he did was there was a president at the time who had a heart attack, so, like they made that their mission. And there was a president at the time who had a heart attack, so they made that their mission. I can't remember who it was, but they made that their mission to figure out what causes heart disease, because it was a huge event.
Speaker 1:
So Ancel Keys was a researcher, went to different countries in Europe and concluded that the people, the rich people that eat high animal products, saturated fat, they have higher rates of heart disease than the poor people who eat grains and less animal products.
Speaker 1:
I very, very much encourage people to look into the research yourself.
Speaker 1:
I'm not going to get into how many flaws it had, but the biggest known flaw is he cherry-picked his data and, for example, a country like France that did not go with his hypothesis at all. They eat very high saturated fat foods and they had one of the lowest rates of heart disease and he just said that must not. Something must be wrong, so I'm not going to use that data, point. He did that with a couple other countries too and came back published his data, came back published his data and basically we've been stuck on this, making all of our regulations and nutrition research and rules based on this very flawed data and for some reason people can't catch up with the times. So that's where this idea of saturated fat is bad came from. And I think he was a well-respected researcher and stuff and I don't think it was his mission to get it wrong on purpose, but we haven't gone back and and adjusted it have there been other, like research studies that disprove, or you know or continue to prove.
Speaker 2:
You know one side or the other on this yeah, so I mean, it's that that tough?
Speaker 1:
So definitely, just to answer your question, yes, there's tons of research that shows that it's not the saturated fat. Saturated fat, in many cases, in terms of butter or CLA, which is a type of saturated fat, is actually beneficial for the heart. So there's a lot of science there. And then you know you still have funded science. Well, both are funded, both are biased. So you have science on both sides saying it's good science today coming out saying it's still bad. Excuse me, we should be vegan. And that's where I tell people mix the science with some common sense and ancestral wisdom. Like crisco was invented, I think, in the 60s and 70s. So you know, first of all, if I have to say a food was invented, right, red flag already right, right red flag and foods that have been around for millennia are being told.
Speaker 1:
You know, we're being told, don't eat those, those cause heart disease. It's like do what you want with. So I mix all of those together because research, unfortunately, these days can be biased, but yes, it is unfortunate that you know there's.
Speaker 2:
There is the scientific process. However, you can prove whatever you want to prove, depending on what you put in as inputs, if you have.
Speaker 1:
You know a rationale, that you're trying to come out with something you're trying to support like you said, what you put in or what you leave out, you know, I mean, like a lot of people just leave out information and then it it's crazy.
Speaker 2:
So so that's all that we know what caused, like the flaw in his study so.
Speaker 1:
So there's a one thing I'll get into next. I think that will help, and then I just think that he I'd have to look again. The biggest one is I just know he left out the stuff that didn't agree with his study, so I don't really think he had a strong conclusion of like confirmation bias yeah, yeah, he didn't have a strong conclusion of this causes heart disease.
Speaker 1:
He was. He was set in stone on like. This must be it. How do I prove that? And you know, when we do the scientific method, it should be the opposite. It should be open-minded to what is causing this. It could be anything right this is my hypothesis.
Speaker 2:
Let's prove it right or wrong and then re-evaluate the hypothesis, not the opposite should be open minded to what is causing this.
Speaker 1:
It could be anything.
Speaker 2:
Right, this is my hypothesis. Let's prove it right or wrong and then reevaluate the hypothesis. Not this is my outcome.
Speaker 1:
My hypothesis will be my outcome. Right, right. But if we prove it right and our hypothesis is our outcome, a lot more benefits for us as an individual.
Speaker 2:
Right, right. Yeah, there's that pride piece, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, individual, right right. Yeah, there's that pride piece, yeah, and I'm sure money and research grants, so he'll get all that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:
That's true, I suppose yeah if you can say that I think this is what it is, then now I'm going to prove it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so yes, again, I suggest people to look into that Tons of information on it. I just there's so much to learn. I don't want to learn his entire backstory, but I've read it before. There's a lot of good information. And a thing that was widely missed is in the 60s and 70s when all of this was going on. So smoking was really, I think, also growing at this time, and we know when smoking first came out there were billboards and ads and doctors promoting it. So it wasn't. And now we know obviously it's very bad for you and it's bad for heart disease and blood pressure. So that was overlooked a lot and could have been another strong player in why maybe we saw rates of heart disease increase at the same time of him looking for a cause. So that's one possible to also kind of build off. Your question is one possible avenue you could go down right, right, because was he doing?
Speaker 2:
was he doing his research on like humans as this test group, or was it?
Speaker 1:
yeah, so it. It wasn't like, uh, it wasn't a research or it wasn't a study where it was an experiment, double blind. It was all observational study. He just went into human populations in different countries, observed what they ate and saw, if they, yeah, yes, it wasn't okay, so it's like it was like americans have this problem.
Speaker 2:
What is not in diets in countries that don't have this problem or in areas that don't have this problem yeah, pretty much areas yeah okay gotcha.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. So he would be like oh, this country doesn't have a lot of heart disease, they don't seem to eat a lot of.
Speaker 2:
So there was no control, there was only observation of variables. No control on variables.
Speaker 1:
Yes, so which that's you know I'm not saying that to discount all of that are all studies that are observational, but they're a starting point.
Speaker 2:
Well, and the issue with observational studies is the inherent bias, especially when you're doing something like that. You're literally taking a map and saying let's look at the statistic. Let's look at one statistic. Let's look at heart disease and heart attacks, coronary artery disease. Let's look at that. Okay, where is it high, when is it low? Now let's go observe those people.
Speaker 1:
Right, and you know how many millions of variables are in people's lives.
Speaker 2:
Even just geographic variables. We're talking 70s, so air pollution wasn't Well. Air pollution in the 70s and whatnot would have been still pretty rampant. Indoor and probably not where you are. Depending on where you were, you could have very rural outdoorsy places and then very rampant places with high pollution, and that's not something that would have been taken into consideration.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, a million factors, and that's why it is interesting. There's a lot of books on it, a lot of stories on it, and it's pretty hard, when people have even gone through his research and done research on his research, to analyze it. And you can read those studies as well. It doesn't look good for him. So, yeah, that's interesting, but that's kind of where all of this, I think, came from.
Speaker 1:
Also, side note, we did switch forms of light into energy, so like we were burning oils a lot and well, the light bulb and electricity and that stuff became a lot more mainstream. So what you'll hear a lot as well whether this is true or not, but it does make sense is the industry that was burning oils for light had a lot of excess oil. Now, what do we do with this? Because we switched to electricity, light bulbs, all that, and they switched those oils into an edible oil, which is yourco canola oil, these vegetable oils you'll even see videos that vegetable oil. Actually its first use was to lubricate engines. So, like they had an excess of these oils and instead of not selling them anymore, they figured out how can we adapt and change them into something we can still sell.
Speaker 1:
So, as a business model, a plus interesting, interesting yeah, so is that when we saw a change in fast food and fry food as well yeah, like mcdonald's used to use beef fat and then they switched to more of, yeah, the vegetable oils way cheaper. They like to. It's promoted as vegetable and that's why they piggybacked off that research of animal products are bad. Eat these vegetable oils that we've made for you, so you can patent those. You can't patent a cow fat. So, yeah, those kind of went together. And then another thing that was widely missed was sugar. At this time again, I encourage people to look into this research. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:
The sugar industry was bribing and putting lots of money towards researchers to make sugar look good and if it did look bad, to not publish that research. So sugar was a huge problem in terms of heart disease, diabetes. But it was a huge industry. It still is, and you can see many doctors, many researchers that were paid off. If you want to look it up, to hide research, to not release the research that showed sugar was bad or to promote sugar. So again, at the same time, smoking sugar, all these other things, vegetable oils being created I'm not saying it. Vegetable oils being created I'm not saying it's a conspiracy. I'm not saying they want us sick. I'm most likely saying it was a money thing. It made them a lot of money and they wanted to continue making a lot of money.
Speaker 1:
So right right it's bad timing for all a lot of oils are.
Speaker 2:
Those are unsaturated fats, right, most of those oils yes, most of them, yeah, are polyunsaturated fats.
Speaker 1:
And an easy thing. If you know, we're beginner at home. Saturated fats are usually hard at room temperature. You know your butter won't melt, your coconut oil, animal fat if it's warm out they'll start to get melty. Polyunsaturated fats, like vegetable oils, or monounsaturated fat, like olive oil, those are liquid at room temperature. I think polyunsaturated fats will actually even be liquid if you put them in the fridge like vegetable oils. If you have a good quality olive oil, it will get thicker in the fridge not solid, though, right not solid, but pretty cloudy and dense.
Speaker 2:
Olive oil is thick to begin with.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, the good stuff? Well, because if you buy cheap olive oil, it basically becomes a cheap vegetable oil.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's just mono.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, they process it a lot and make it thin and clear, so we could do a whole different episode on vegetable oils and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:
Right, right, right. We're getting a little detour out here.
Speaker 1:
But this is good because this is the basic information of why are these things demonized? Why are we still told today that we shouldn't eat these foods that humans have been eating since day one? This goes back to a lot of. Also, what made humans humans? Some people argue it was magic mushrooms. Some people argue I'm in the camp of it was a lot of seafood because of the brain building nutrients in that. So you know these foods that have saturated fat in them are not going to cause us harm. So, moving on to the next step, if you go to the doctors, we're kind of talking about all of this because I want to promote eating these traditional, healthy foods that are demonized. But also, statins are a huge thing right now where super prescribed tons of people are on them and I'd say they're over prescribed to a point where your cholesterol is getting slightly high. Let's just put you on a statin and see what happens and there's a lot of problems with these drugs and statins, those are the blood thinners.
Speaker 2:
I could be completely. I'm shooting from the hip here. Yeah, no, no, I'm only thinking because I actually I don't.
Speaker 1:
I got to remember. I don't think I know the exact mechanism on how statins work. I know some of their negative side effects, but they just I got my computer here.
Speaker 2:
I can look it up. What are?
Speaker 1:
yeah, they lower cholesterol.
Speaker 2:
You'd have to look up how I just yeah, what are statins and how do they work? Statins are a class of medicine used to lower cholesterol. Okay, we know that. Uh, while some of the cholesterol in your blood comes from food, most is made by the liver. Statins work by reducing the amount of cholesterol made by the liver and helping the liver remove cholesterol that is already in the blood.
Speaker 1:
Okay. So basically I guess a garbage truck for cholesterol I mean for this podcast anyways, I think that's a great description of you. Take this pill. It's going to mimic a molecule in your body that is telling your body make less cholesterol, because that is a big misconception. I think that's a great going-off point. There's a couple here, but first one being is most of your cholesterol comes from being made in the body, not from your food. So this is a drug and this is an industry telling you we want to decrease cholesterol, when it's one of the most important molecules in the body, which helps transport hormones around, helps protect neurons and the brain's made of it. So this is an important molecule that we don't really just want to willy nilly take a pill pill for if we're on the fence, if you go to your doctor, cholesterol might be high and we'll get into. Is your cholesterol actually high or are they just very overprescribed? But to go off that, a quick thing is there's two types of cholesterol. There is I think it's right here.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, there's two types of cholesterol. There's esterified. Now, esterified cholesterol just means it's attached to another molecule. And then there's de-esterified, which is unattached, so the body can only use free cholesterol or de-esterified, so it's not attached to another molecule. And in food most of the cholesterol is esterified. So that means it's a lot harder for the body to use cholesterol from food. Not saying it's impossible, not saying it doesn't have an effect, but it has to uncouple it, yes. So not only does the body have to de-esterify cholesterol from food, that cholesterol then competes with already cholesterol in the body. So it's kind of I guess I don't really know how to say it in a good way but its absorption is very poor compared to the cholesterol your liver is already making. So when people put a lot of weight on saturated fat cholesterol, Well, it sounds like that's how the pills.
Speaker 2:
That's why the pill works is because it binds to it, and it makes it so that you know it doesn't have something bound to it, and so then your body can't absorb it, Whereas if it wasn't anything bound to it, your body could absorb it, which now makes sense on why it binding to the enzyme is important.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and 80% of your cholesterol. I know I said the number 80, for that's how much your brain is, but 80% of the cholesterol is made by your intestines and liver. And here's the thing is if you start to eat a lot of cholesterol and you haven't before you start to eat a lot of foods with saturated fat, yes, you may see your cholesterol go up, but the body will then start to make less. It will adjust. So this is a lot of things. That people forget about, too is if you're not eating enough cholesterol, which is very damaging when we get into that, but your body will ramp up production and make more. If you start to eat more of it because you're getting it from your diet, your body can lower and make less. So a lot of things get missed here. With cholesterol tests, which we'll get into, how much diet actually affects your serum cholesterol? Is that really even important? Because we'll talk about different types of cholesterol. Everyone knows LDL and HDL. This is what you get done at the doctors but is that even enough information to tell you if you're having problems or not? I'll tell you the answer right now no, it's not, and I guess this is probably a good jumping off point if we'll just do a quick introduction of all that. So to wrap this up, not go too long, because this is going to be multiple episodes You'll go to the doctor say you're worried about your cholesterol. They're going to give you a total cholesterol test and HDL and LDL.
Speaker 1:
Now if we think about cholesterol because that's what if we boil it down to all of saturated food, the concern is high cholesterol, heart disease, heart failure, death. So we're talking about cholesterol there are these molecules that transport other molecules throughout the body, like little cars that transport you to different places, because it protects them and you couldn't get there without them. So they allow them to enter and leave. We want these molecules to be nice, big and fluffy like clouds. So if you have a lot of cholesterol, it's not as bad as what type of cholesterol is it? So if your cholesterol is nice, big, fluffy, moves along, that's different than the cholesterol being plaque-like. So you've heard of plaque, so small dots that stick and cause problems.
Speaker 1:
So when we go to the doctor and we get this test total cholesterol, hdl, ldl that says nothing about the size of our cholesterol, the particles, how many particles and that's where we kind of go wrong is we then prescribe medication off of a test that doesn't tell us enough information. So just to start there. I think we'll get into it a lot more in the other episodes, but just to start, there is. I strongly recommend, if your doctor does want to talk to you about a statin or talk to you about your cholesterol is too high is I strongly recommend asking for in-depth tests like particle size, vldl there's a ton of different types of LDLs, because it's not just about that. Or, if that's extra money and you don't have it, a really good way to test at home. If you want to look at a recent blood test you got, say, from the doctor, or you go and they want to look at your total cholesterol, ldl.
Speaker 1:
Hdl a better marker because this will be done on a normal cholesterol test is look at your triglycerides over your HDL. So this ratio is a better predictor for heart disease than any of the others on the normal panel and we want it to be around two or less. So, say, your triglycerides are 100 and your HDL is 50. That's a good ratio, so, and anything less than that. So that's a great at-home test, very practical. You're worried about it. You're concerned. Maybe you're on the fence and your doctor wants to put you on a statin and you don't. You don't know if you should look at your triglycerides. That's always done on a normal cholesterol test. Divide it by your HDL and if it's around two or less you're, you're good to go. It's a better predictor of heart disease. If you're over that, well, the easiest thing we could do is lower triglycerides, and we'll get into that. It's mainly about eating sugar and not fat, as crazy as that sounds.
Speaker 2:
We might want to split this and bring it back in, but what does cholesterol actually do with the body? So all it really does. What is its purpose? Why do we need it?
Speaker 1:
yeah. So the main things I would say is it's a protective molecule, so cholesterol covers neurons. So we know neurons are going to send signals throughout the body and say if anyone has dealt with nerve pain or something like that, we don't want those nerves being damaged. So cholesterol is one function, is it coats neurons, protects them. Another thing is it transports hormones. So to have proper hormone function we need cholesterol to be transporting testosterone. Have proper hormone function, we need cholesterol to be transporting testosterone, estrogen, progesterone. It's a transporter of all those hormones and we know how important hormones are for health. And then it's one of the main molecules that makes up our brain. So this is all off memory so I'm going to see if I can find it here, but these are the main points. So protective layers for the brain, just what the brain is made out of. I don't think we have to go into why your brain is important.
Speaker 2:
But we have to.
Speaker 1:
I mean, there's already some brain problems, but those are the three main things that I always remember of like what is cholesterol? What's it do? Why is it good? Yes, and it also plays a role in the transmission of neurotransmitters. So, it's very important in your central nervous system. This has approximately 25% of the total amount of cholesterol present in humans is localized to the brain organ.
Speaker 2:
That's why there's a huge link between statins and Alzheimer's. I mean, you are affecting people's memories. I was just going to say, yeah, alzheimer's depression, anxiety, like a lot of these mental things, like that's on a huge upward trajectory and you wonder why people do so well on a carnivore diet.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, why they have better mental clarity. And what? Yeah, it's, it's because, oh, you're giving your brain nutrients it needs.
Speaker 2:
And it also says it's key in the production of vitamin d, which just kind of brings brings our topics all full circle on how much we part on light and vitamin D production.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's a huge one that slip Huge one.
Speaker 2:
Just trying to connect the dots here, because vitamin D is one of the ways vitamin D production is one of the ways you're lowering cholesterol, if cholesterol is used to produce vitamin D. So if you don't have light exposure. Your body has a reservoir of cholesterol that it needs to produce vitamin D.
Speaker 1:
You're not getting light exposure.
Speaker 2:
So it's never depleting that and that's just sitting there.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's a genius statement Because one of the researchers I've seen they're like one of the best ways to lower your cholesterol go out in the sun. It will use it up to create vitamin D, but people aren't going out in the sun. It will use it up to create vitamin d, but people aren't going out in the sun I feel like it's something we don't talk about you know?
Speaker 2:
no, it's cholesterol is like demonized, but it's like to a point where it's almost like, oh, I should eliminate cholesterol completely, which I guess if your body's producing most of it and your body can produce it on its own with a proper diet, then I guess that's why eliminating it is the mindset, but I feel like we don't even know what it does. I mean, like if somebody said to me what does cholesterol do, I'd be like I don't know. It's in my food.
Speaker 1:
Right, it's in eggs and I don't want to have a lot of it.
Speaker 2:
Like you know what I mean, Like that's what we're taught.
Speaker 1:
And that's the sad part, because the more research you do, it really seems like this is one of the most important molecules for humans to live well, healthy and function.
Speaker 2:
It's crazy how simple all of it is when you just put it all together.
Speaker 1:
That's why I'm almost wanting to get out of it, because I'm like it's literally like, just do these things and you'll be healthy and I don't want to argue it.
Speaker 2:
But the problem is all the misinformation that's out there that you're constantly fighting with. I know, but that's a freaking battle. You can't make money off telling people go out in the sun, eat whole foods and just enjoy life like make sure you get 10 000 steps get an hour of sunlight exposure every day. I'm super excited for our additional parts on this because it seems like there's a lot to uncover because we're told so little about it.
Speaker 1:
It'll be good. So that was a good mishmash of jumping around, but hopefully that gets people excited so we'll go more into it.
Speaker 2:
I know I'm amped up.
Speaker 1:
Love it. Thanks for listening to our podcast.
Speaker 2:
We hope this helps you on your balance freedom journey.
Speaker 1:
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