Is higher education worth the investment in today’s economy? Join us on the Balanced Blueprints podcast as we welcome Aiden, a high school student, to dissect the complexities of the modern college decision-making process. Reflecting on the past 20 to 40 years, we reveal how shifts in job market expectations have influenced the value of degrees and presented new opportunities in trade professions. Learn how to navigate these changes and make informed decisions that could impact your financial future.
Ever thought of college shopping like buying a car? We break down the negotiable nature of college expenses and the significance of aligning these costs with expected post-graduation income. Discover how leveraging a college's alumni network can open doors to career opportunities, and why high academic performance may not always equate to intelligence. We discuss the balance between grades, networking, and the invaluable skill of asking the right questions, especially in a job market that increasingly values practical skills over academic achievements.
Struggling to balance work, school, and social life? Find out how treating classwork as a job can set a structured schedule, making the transition to post-college life smoother. We delve into strategies for using college resources effectively, such as tutoring programs and professor office hours, to boost academic success. Explore the importance of internships and the flexibility of changing majors, understanding that reassessing commitments can lead to discovering your ideal career path. This episode is packed with insights to help you navigate your college journey and beyond.
Is higher education worth the investment in today’s economy? Join us on the Balanced Blueprints podcast as we welcome Aiden, a high school student, to dissect the complexities of the modern college decision-making process. Reflecting on the past 20 to 40 years, we reveal how shifts in job market expectations have influenced the value of degrees and presented new opportunities in trade professions. Learn how to navigate these changes and make informed decisions that could impact your financial future.
Ever thought of college shopping like buying a car? We break down the negotiable nature of college expenses and the significance of aligning these costs with expected post-graduation income. Discover how leveraging a college's alumni network can open doors to career opportunities, and why high academic performance may not always equate to intelligence. We discuss the balance between grades, networking, and the invaluable skill of asking the right questions, especially in a job market that increasingly values practical skills over academic achievements.
Struggling to balance work, school, and social life? Find out how treating classwork as a job can set a structured schedule, making the transition to post-college life smoother. We delve into strategies for using college resources effectively, such as tutoring programs and professor office hours, to boost academic success. Explore the importance of internships and the flexibility of changing majors, understanding that reassessing commitments can lead to discovering your ideal career path. This episode is packed with insights to help you navigate your college journey and beyond.
Welcome to the Balanced Blueprints podcast, where we discuss the optimal techniques for finances and health and then break it down to create an individualized and balanced plan. I'm your host, justin Gaines, here with my co-host, john Prober, so in this episode we're going to do something a little different. I have Aiden here with me. He's a high school student, he's shadowing me for the day, and so we're going to get a little bit of the financial perspective as well as some other perspectives from a high school student on what they're thinking about when they go and look at colleges or look at their next career step. And obviously John and I have been through that. We've had two very different paths as far as approaching that. We had two very different college experiences too. For degree selection. I went to one college, stayed there. John transferred into siena. So he went to, went to one college right and then transferred to siena, so you had two colleges or yeah and did abroad and did the yeah and you did abroad and I did not do abroad.
Speaker 1:So two very different experiences. And then, um, I know that we've talked about it at great lengths in our personal lives about how we wish we knew a bunch of stuff that we didn't know going into it and probably would have made different decisions and just approach things differently. So this will be interesting to see, how you know, flash forward 10 years from when we were making this decision, see if 10 years changes the thought process and the questions, and then hopefully be able to answer them and have good, good podcast out of it as well.
Speaker 3:So I'm excited I don't know what the questions are so this will be.
Speaker 1:This will be interesting. We'll probably get some uh out of left field questions, but, aiden, kick it off. What's your uh? What's your first question for us?
Speaker 3:I think, jumping into it, one I've been thinking about do you think navigating the college scene has changed in the last 20 to 40 years and if so, if any significant change, what would you do about it?
Speaker 1:So has college changed in the last or navigating the decision changed in the last 20 to 40 years? I would say yes only because you know economies are different, job placements different, all those things are different. So I do think you know going to college early 2000s, 90s, 1990s. You know going to college then. If you went to college, it really didn't matter what you got a degree in, you were guaranteed a higher income immediately. It automatically put you into a higher income earning bracket. It made it so you had the ability to make that higher income. Flash forward to today, and I would say that, like when we graduated college, john and I graduated in 2019.
Speaker 1:When we graduated college, I think there was a high probability that college would result in a higher income, but it wasn't necessarily guaranteed and I think even now it's even more so a case of there are certain degrees that if you get them and you specialize in that area and you stay in that industry, you'll have a higher income, but if you get other degrees, it's not going to have any impact on your income or your job placement. I think there's a lot of money to be made right now in the trades. I think, if you for those individuals that have an interest in that space and want to work with their hands and want to have that as their career. I think they'd be crazy to go to college. You can make way more than a college grad right out of college if you go an apprentice and become a plumber, an electrician, a carpenter.
Speaker 1:Those trades for the longest time were demonized when john and I were in high school. You know it was the. It was the quote-unquote dumb kids who did that, and now those quote-unquote dumb kids are making great money and laughing all the way to the bank. So I think you know it's. It shouldn't have been stigmatized. It was stigmatized and now it's causing a massive labor shortage. But, john, I am curious what your take is on this as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, agree with everything you say. I think what it really does nowadays is highlight the importance of you should really know what you want to do before you go. And that's because of that shift in terms of I think, like you said right, when we graduated, was probably the turn of bachelor's degrees not really holding the weight that they used to hold, and that makes it tough because the price of them have probably only gone up. I was going to say they stay the same, but gone up of them have probably only gone up.
Speaker 1:I was going to say they stay the same, but gone up. No, no, well, and the price? The other thing too, is you got to look at price from a price to average income earning as well and the price to average income has grown. It's outpaced the growth. As average income has gone up. The cost of college has gone up at a much faster rate. So if they were the same, then you'd be in a similar situation. But the fact that your average income, just in general in the general labor market, the average income compared to the average income previously, the pace at which those have grown have been very different and college has just gotten more and more expensive in that ratio comparison, which is why you need you know, you need to know, you need to know that you're making the right decision which is a tough thing to put on a high school kid.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's extreme. So I, just to speak from personal experience and what I went through, I explored and tried to figure out throughout college and I would recommend not doing that because it's a very expensive way to explore and there's a lot of ways that you could actually broaden your mind a lot better. So at least I was lucky enough to travel a little through school, but I felt the effect of my college degree because I may have not gotten the best one for what I wanted to do, because the school didn't offer maybe the right one, because I went to school without knowing that I wanted to do that. I have felt the effect of it to this day of I need more schooling to, I guess, make up for the lack of schooling I had in, you know, certain fields. So I strongly recommend I'll just close, you know that question of that of really know what you want to do and if that means a gap year, if that means working a job until you know, because you're just socking away money and college will be even easier to pay for.
Speaker 2:That's what I strongly recommend. And if you even have any adults these days, as I know some that do that still say, oh, to get ahead. You need to get a master's degree or a college degree or school is the most important thing. They're very dated for all of the reasons Justin said. They're still thinking about it in their time period, which they're right. They're right for their time period, but it's changed.
Speaker 1:What else do you have for us?
Speaker 2:Number two.
Speaker 1:Or follow up questions to that, if you have follow up questions, because that could also be the case.
Speaker 3:Not for this one, but you did kind of segue into my next question when you were talking. How would you suggest balancing financial independence versus spending all your focus on the actual college and the grade grades?
Speaker 1:Good, question that's a good one on the actual college and the good grades. Good question.
Speaker 2:That's a good one.
Speaker 1:How do you balance financial independence and focusing on the education and getting good grades? Explain what I did and then let's take it from there. I always tell people one when you're looking at colleges, looking at colleges and I guess this analogy in the current market doesn't necessarily apply, but I always used to say, looking at colleges, looking at colleges and this I guess this analogy in the current market doesn't necessarily apply, but I always used to say looking at colleges is like shopping for a car. Nobody pays the sticker price. The reason I said that fall apart because most people are paying above the sticker price right now in our little, in our briefly outside of COVID world. But I'm sure that's going to come back down where you know. The sticker price is negotiable to a sense.
Speaker 1:Most colleges offer scholarships in-house. You have scholarships you can get from other organizations depending on what you're involved in. But I think, in order to maintain your financial independence, you have to know what the college is going to cost you, what you're going to school for and, as a result, since you know what you're going to school for, you're going to know the average income for that profession when you graduate college. I'm a huge proponent that your cost of going to college each year should not exceed the annual pay after taxes of the profession you want to go into, pay after taxes of the profession you want to go into. So if you have a profession that the average pay after college is $60,000, you know you're going to be in the what's that put you in the 22% tax bracket. Marginally adjusted, you're probably bringing home $48,000 to $49,000 a year, which means you should not be paying more than $48,000, $49,000 a year for that degree. Because if you go outside of that ratio of dollar for dollar postgraduate income, you're not going to be able to afford the loans and paying that stuff off. And so doing that allows you to kind of narrow down the scope of what degrees are worth going to college for and which ones aren't.
Speaker 1:But I also you brought up, you know getting good grades, and I also feel that the reason why you go to college is to purchase a network, and what I mean by that is very similar to when you join a country club. You pay membership dues in order to have access to those people. I think you're doing the same thing when you go to college. I think you should look at the alumni network of the college you're going to. I think you should look at you know the size of the college and take into account all these factors, because you don't know who else is going to apply and who else is going to go there, or who the current students are. You also don't know what they're going to turn out to be, but what you can look at is their network base from alumni.
Speaker 1:Where are their alumni getting jobs at? Where do they currently work? Most people, if they see the same college on the resume, it's going to help you open the door. It's going to help you get the interview. Not necessarily is it going to help you get the job, but it's going to help you open the door to get the interview. And then you have to sell yourself in the interview. But if you go to a college and you're not getting that access, and then you have to sell yourself in the interview, but if you go to a college and you're not getting that access, then your grades might play a larger role.
Speaker 1:But I'm a huge proponent that grades don't measure intelligence, they measure obedience, and so if you're really good at following rules, you can get a 4.0. If you don't like following rules, you're probably not going to get a 4.0 because you're not going to do the things the way you need to do them in order to ace every single class. I did not graduate with a 4.0. I didn't even graduate with a 3.5. I didn't even graduate with a 3.0. But my income earning now and even my first year out of college, was in the top 10, probably in the top 5% of my college graduate cohort. And that's because when I was at college I was working, so I was building my resume and I was focused on networking opportunities and getting in front of the right people so that I had strong ties into the alumni base, so then I could leverage those relationships into job opportunities, into other things.
Speaker 1:The education and getting good grades is important, but I don't think it's the primary reason and the primary focus you should have, simply because the reality is, when you get into the labor markets and get into the real world, you may have to pass tests in order to get licenses, but then when I have questions about insurance stuff or I'm working on a case and I don't remember something, I turn to Google and I know the right question to ask. And that's the important part is knowing the right question to ask, because we have a world of answers at our phone with Google. So if you just if you know the right question to ask, you can find the right answer. Knowing the right answer isn't the issue. Knowing the right question to ask, you can find the right answer.
Speaker 1:Knowing the right answer isn't the issue. Knowing the right question to ask is the issue. And so if you have a firm understanding of the knowledge, which means you have, you know, a C plus to a B minus in the class which is a 2.7,. I think you have enough information to be able to ask the right questions. Asking the right questions is going to open more doors than having all the right answers in your head, in my personal opinion. John, you may feel otherwise, but let's, let's get your take that's what's tough is.
Speaker 2:I don't feel otherwise, but in the more science fields you have to do otherwise. So I I agree with you, but they're probably looking you phrased it in a great way. They're looking for more obedience because they put, in my opinion, too much weight on the grades, the regurgitation, the memorization. It's needed to a degree.
Speaker 1:I think part of the reason in the medical field too because that's the other thing is that you're talking medical health sciences, I'm talking, you know, business stuff very different components, because you know, in the business world you can just go off on your own and start your own business and prove yourself that way, or work for somebody and work your way up the chain. The health world, though, you have to have some sort of way to weed out and rank people. And so in those fields absolutely you know, if you're going to law school, you know you're going to get a medical degree grades are going to be highly important because they have to rank you in some way.
Speaker 2:But here's, I guess. So here's the thing is you have to play their game to a certain degree, and I'm very bad at playing their game, so that's why I may have not done the best as others, because I think some of the best practitioners in the health world these days are the free thinkers. But I think almost all of them did play the game to get to where they had to be and then did the free thinking. So I still wrestle with that, but I would say I agree with you. That's probably more important. Slightly depends on the degree.
Speaker 2:And then the only other thing I would recommend is on-campus jobs. I loved that. They work so well with your schedule. So I tutored, I did some things like that, so that was a great way to bring in money and then just work during the summers. That really helped me. I mean, I paid my college off pretty quick and that's mainly because the second we were out during the summer I worked and then I didn't. You worked off campus, I know, which is also very feasible but I was on campus, covered my house.
Speaker 1:That's true too, and then and then, yeah, most of my stuff was off campus for sure, which makes it more difficult. You got to have a car transportation to get there. Yeah, oh, it definitely is another thing to juggle, but you did bring up a good topic that we used to talk about all the time, which is we can tell people the college isn't worth the money because we went there. Yeah, somebody our same age, working in the same field, can't say that if they didn't go there and it's the whole. You can't, you know you can't. Just you can't discourage something that you don't know. And because we've been to college, we know, and so we have the ability to say that it wasn't worth it. And so it's just ironic because somebody who didn't get a college degree you know, any one of our friends that didn't get college degrees could say the exact same thing that we're saying, and they would be discounted because they didn't play the game. But because we can, because we've played the game, we can now say you know, it's a game.
Speaker 2:I don't know what's better, but it's just the irony of it. It's just the irony of it.
Speaker 1:It's that club or that cult or that world that you have to be a part of in order to discredit it. It's very true, very true.
Speaker 3:I think there are great points there. I will say I do tend to side a little bit more. I will say I do tend to side a little bit more. I do side a little bit more on John's side, where the opening yourself up, alumni and getting that network started is great and I do think for a business one that would be almost 100% of the priority and for a medical field, I definitely see how it would be skewed a lot towards the other side of playing the game. I think I would, with mine being engineering, electrical engineering. I think it would be a healthy mix of both.
Speaker 1:You need a good network too, You're going to need the grades for that. Any engineering degree. You're going to need the grades.
Speaker 3:But also coming out of college. You're going to need the network, especially with what I'm going to do. Right For sure, and thankfully I have already started. I have a couple of friends who have good connections with the CIA and Lockheed, which is what I'm interested in. Perfect, but I think the grades are equally, if not more, important in that circumstance. Right For sure. The next question, which does go a little bit under the balancing aspect Normally you would have a work and social life balance in an adult life, but with college specifically, I think that adds a school part. Placing yourself in the shoes of a college student, how would you achieve this balance and what would you do?
Speaker 1:So you should view your class work as your job, and so when you go from college to working, the only thing that should shift out is if you're a full-time student, that should be your job. And so, yes, we're saying, go and get other jobs outside of that, and so that just means you know, adding that into your job requirements. But your primary focus should be the schooling, and the schooling, when you graduate, will just be replaced with the job. So if you're spending 40 hours a week on school work, when you go and work and you have an outside job, so you're spending 50, 60 hours a week. Most careers that you get into you're going to be expected to do 50, 60 hours a week when you start out, and so you're just going to swap out your schoolwork and the jobs that you were working for your actual job and, if you can, early on in your schooling career, if you can set yourself up that way and not operate like most college kids where they just do it on a whim and do it whenever they want to. But you set, OK, I'm going to take, you know, you might like morning classes, you might take 9 am classes or you might like evening classes, but pick at minimum an eight hour window that you're going to do work, and that eight hour window is when you do your classes and you do your homework and you do your group projects and all of your work is done in that eight hour window. And then occasionally you'll have to meet with a group outside of those hours or you might have to work more than those hours, and that's very similar to how it is in the work life.
Speaker 1:But I think the hardest transition in college is having the freedom to set your own schedule and thinking that that means you don't have to have a schedule, and so that then also causes pains.
Speaker 1:When you switch from school to college or school and college to working, because you went from all this do whatever whenever and nobody has control over my schedule to then your job is what has control over your schedule and that's what sets your parameters.
Speaker 1:If you picture it as your work throughout college and then just switch to the job, it'll be a much easier transition and you'll probably get better grades just because you'll have set times. You're like oh, I'm supposed to work from, say you don't like 9 am, say you don't want to wake up early, so you work from instead of 9 to 5, you work from 11 to 7. And so you work from instead of nine to five, you work from 11 to seven. And so now you're just getting that work done in that timeframe but say you're done at four and you're like oh, I have three more hours. Instead of pushing that project out that you know is coming up, do three hours of work on it, do two hours of work on it and start building those habits that'll translate over into the work life Phenomenally habits that'll translate over into the work life phenomenally.
Speaker 2:I yeah, if I'm understanding your perspective and question right I almost wouldn't worry about your work or your school life balance as much as in college versus when you get out I mean. So a couple points on this. Is you develop again the network, great relationships, but just with your peers you're basically living with? If you're lucky enough to develop friendships, living with some of your best friends, which, even if they're maybe in a different dorm just across campus, is closer to your friends, and that number of people you'll be for a long time. So when you get into the real world I would say it's almost harder to have maybe a social life that's that easy to develop because you just have friends, people always doing stuff, and I'm not saying parties. Obviously there's parties, probably every night, but you can find people with similar interests that you don't have to coordinate, like hey, are you free this day? Hey, are you busy that day? Hey, how's your work schedule? Cause you'll see each other walking to the gym, walking to the lunchroom, and you'll say you want to go on a hike tomorrow. Yeah, this is my time. So I wouldn't be too worried about that balance. I think it's a lot easier to balance than you may think. It's almost harder, I would say, once you graduate.
Speaker 2:And then, just to go off Justin's point as well, I would use college as an experiment, because if we look at Justin's life now, it's like he doesn't have to work exactly nine to five and he can do that that well.
Speaker 2:So it's like, use college as an experiment of can I get everything I need done, not maybe working the conventional schedule, because if you're someone who thinks they want to work for themselves or own their own business, that might be a good time to test that out.
Speaker 2:And if you go through and you're like, wow, this year I got nothing done and I tried to do that, then you might be like someone who is like, okay, maybe I is, even though I'd like to do that, maybe I do need a company or a nine-to-five giving me that box, because otherwise I won't get that stuff done. So I would just I would only add that because, um, I think justin's right in terms of majority. I don don't even know, 90% of people coming out aren't going to be doing those nine to fives, but just looking at him it's like if you tested that out, yeah, so that might be a good experiment because you can get away with in terms of your grades. Might not be as good if you didn't do as well, but you're not getting fired from a job, so it might be a good time to test it.
Speaker 1:That's true too. To figure out what schedule works best for you, yeah.
Speaker 3:On this topic of the experimentation and trying to find that balance. If you find yourself in an experiment that doesn't work and the balance is not falling apart, whether it be you're about to lose a job, you have part-time or your grades are tanking, what sacrifices would you make? Would you make like maybe you don't hang out with your friends as much and you call out of work or you skip your classes?
Speaker 1:in my experience, so I guess I'd back up. If it's a matter of you're going to lose your job in college, lose the job, learn how to learn how to deal with that, because you're probably going to lose a job in the working life, in the working world. So don't look at it as a massive downfall. Look at it as your opportunity to actually feel and experience what losing a job feels like and then how to recover from that. You're not there to work, you're there to learn, and so just take that as another learning experience. If it's a matter of your grades are tanking, in my experience grades are tanking as a result of not doing the work. If you're not doing the work, you're not going to pass the classes. If you are doing all the work legitimately and you're putting the time in, and it's just not working.
Speaker 1:Every college that I know of has some sort of tutoring program and pays students to be tutors that you don't have to pay for. So you can just go to the library, go to the tutoring center, go to any of that sort of stuff and seek out the tutoring and also build relationships with your professors. Every professor is going to have office hours. It's typically required by the college.
Speaker 1:If you have a question on a topic and you're just not able to fully understand it, go, send an email to your professor, meet with them during their office hours, sit down with them for an extra 30 minutes an hour and just talk it through, because they're trying to teach. You know 20, 30 people in a room, the same topic and if your brain just isn't connecting on it in that way, I'm sure they have a different way to experience it and a different way to explain it. Most colleges, especially in this environment, are switching towards professors that have had work experience, which means they've probably been in middle to upper level management, which means they've had to explain this to several different brain types and several different personalities, and so they're just using whatever is either most natural or most best received in their experience in the classroom. But if that's not working for you, having a relationship with them, seeing a tutor will allow you to spend that extra time but also get a different perspective on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think this is a tricky question because so taking it from a health stance. So I think Justin's completely right. If you're looking at jobs versus school, your schooling is more important. That's why you're there. I'm going to back up even a step further of before you hopefully even get to questioning if you have to quit your job. Like we're humans, like we know how much time is wasted, like, are we scrolling on social media a lot, are we doing this Because technically it should get done.
Speaker 2:You know, I went to school. I only worked part-time, so I didn't work full-time, and by part-time I probably mean like 15 hours, not even 20. So I didn't do a ton of work during school. But I went to school, did that job, worked out, still had relationships with friends. You know it's.
Speaker 2:You got to look in the areas. First of, am I spending time on my phone too much? And let's differentiate between I'm going out with friends until 2 am, which is ruining my next day, or am I getting rid of just hanging out with my friends during the day? So you know you can get rid of one of those and not the other, and I think that's an important differentiation, differentiation. And then, oh, the other thing that you brought up too, which was a good point, is are you not getting the work done? Because you're, you know.
Speaker 2:I would then look at this of are you interested in the subject? Are you just procrastinating and not doing well in your degree because you actually don't like it and you're just there because, oh, I'm supposed to be a doctor or oh, I'm supposed to be an engineer? But you know, we tend to procrastinate things we don't actually want to do. And if it's not that, like Justin said, completely agree, just go get some tutoring. It's free Work with it. Like, if you actually like the subject and you're just not doing well, you'll do fine, you'll pass, just get some extra help.
Speaker 1:That's a good perspective too. I didn't even think about the component of the amount of pressure that's on you to be in the right field that you may just be telling yourself, well, I can get through it, versus it may be a. That may be a sign of no, you actually just don't like this and you're trying to muscle your way through it and maybe, maybe, a career change is the right thing for you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I feel, especially myself, you're so scared to get into at the time, even now, but you're so scared to get into the wrong degree, or the one you weren't supposed to, or one people don't want you to do. And I changed my major, I think four, four times, and still you know well, the average working professional will change careers seven times in their career. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you know a career change means you know you were working in the marketing department, so you're a marketing manager and they realize that you know you'd be really good in HR. So then you move to HR. That's a career change, because you went from one profession to another and that on average seven career changes, which typically comes with seven job changes as well. And so it's interesting that, like when you look at the statistics, it's likely that you choosing the right profession isn't necessarily going to be the profession you're going to stay in. So being concerned and I always tell people too, you know, part of the reason why you should work in college is so you can find out the jobs that you don't want to do. Your internships aren't necessarily about finding the dream job for you. You do want to pick something that you think is ideal for you, but finding out that it's not ideal for you, in my opinion, is a better use of an internship and more beneficial, but also just more insightful.
Speaker 1:If you get into an internship and you find out that you absolutely hate it and you do not want to be there and you want to change either careers or you just know that that portion of your career is not the way you want to narrow in and focus on that to me, is more valuable than going into a career and finding out that, yeah, I could do this, because a lot of times you're not going to find what you love.
Speaker 1:You're going to find something you like. You'll become complacent, you'll stay there and then, six years into your career, you hate it and now you need to make a shift, which isn't a problem. But if you go and you find a, you do an internship, you find out that you absolutely hate that. You now know for the rest of your life that you should not target that business type. You should not target that stuff. And there's so there's a lot of knowledge in bad experiences, and so shying away from bad experiences in college I also is thinks a pitfall. That is just normal for you to try to avoid bad things, but bad things teach us so much.
Speaker 2:The only thing I want to add to that before moving on too, is to go off of your. How do I balance everything? Question is everything Justin just said. Take the same exact approaches but do with your. Do it with your classes too. If jobs become too much and you can't try out jobs, take a class you didn't think you would take. Or, you know, just see what you like about this class or not that class, because I mean different classes. You know they're going to teach you different stuff, different interests. You might go for engineering and be like holy cow I'm in love with french literature, you know. I mean like. I know that I'm saying an extreme example because it can happen. And then you just don't be, don't be afraid. Like Justin said, don't be scared to switch. Even if you've been in that major for a year, you have all your friends of like. Cause I know this was a big thing Like marketer made marketing, majors got made fun of at Sienna. Cause it's not a real major, but you just gotta.
Speaker 1:If that's what you love and that's what you want to do, you know, don't be afraid to do that well, yeah, and in this digital world, a lot of those marketing managers I know a handful of them that graduated with us, that make well into the six figures, work for themselves and have complete work life balance, travel the world and they make great money. So who's who's laughing now?
Speaker 2:yeah, thanks for listening to our podcast.
Speaker 1:We hope this helps you on your balance freedom journey.
Speaker 2:Please share your thoughts in the comments section below. Until next time stay balanced.