Transforming Legal Connections: The Unique Approach to Referrals with Lori Williams

Did you know that 62% of people believe knowing a lawyer personally is the best way to find quality legal representation? In this episode of Spark & Ignite Your Marketing, host Beverly Cornell sits down with Lori Williams, a seasoned attorney and founder of Your Legal Resource PLLC. Lori shares her inspiring journey from a traditional divorce attorney to a trusted connector of legal services in Michigan.

Learn how Lori transitioned from practicing law to creating a business that bridges the gap between clients and the right legal representation. Discover the lightbulb moments that defined her career, including a transformative course at her church that helped her realize her true purpose: connecting people. Lori's story is filled with valuable insights on navigating the legal industry, building meaningful relationships, and maintaining a purpose-driven business.

In This Episode, You'll Learn:

• The importance of personal connections in finding quality legal representation.
• How Lori’s unique approach ensures clients find the perfect legal match.
• The challenges and triumphs Lori faced while building Your Legal Resource PLLC.
• Practical advice for entrepreneurs looking to align their career with their passion and purpose.

Tune in to hear Lori’s incredible journey and gain actionable tips to enhance your business.

Lori's Favorite Book

Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren 

Follow Lori

Your Legal Resource

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Transcript

Beverly: 0:09

Did you know that 62 percent of people feel that knowing a lawyer personally is the best way to find quality legal representation? Welcome to another inspiring episode of Spark Ignite Your Marketing and I'm your host, Beverly Cornell. Today, we're thrilled to introduce Lori Williams, a seasoned Michigan attorney and the mastermind behind Your Legal Resource PLLC Lori has been a licensed attorney since 1989 and has a unique approach to connecting clients with the right legal representation. Her journey from a traditional law practice to becoming a connector of legal resources is both inspiring and informative. Lori, it's so wonderful to have you here.

Lori: 0:50

Thank you, Beverly. I'm so excited to talk with you again.

Beverly: 0:52

We've known each other for a long time. Has it been like 20 years?

Lori: 0:54

Before you were married, when you lived in Michigan, we go way back.

Beverly: 0:58

That's how we connected a while ago, but I've also used your services a couple of times. So I have firsthand knowledge of exactly what you do. And I love this concept. And I love the concept that you're a connector and you like totally own that space as a lawyer, which is really interesting. And I want to get into more of the nitty gritty things, but I want to start with something that's a little bit controversial.

Restream recording Jun 10, 2024 • 02:07:13 PM: 1:22

Boy.

Beverly: 1:23

Okay. So tell me about what really frustrates you about the law industry and how would you fix it? Or how have you fixed it?

Lori: 1:32

I think it can be a little intimidating sometimes for clients when they are in the middle of a crisis or emergency or problem. Like they don't even know who to call. We had 40, 000 lawyers in Michigan at one time and then it dropped down to 35, 000. I don't know what it is today, but that's a lot of people for you to start scrolling the Internet or back in the day when people used phone books to try to find a lawyer. When you're trying to find a doctor, you don't want to just go through a name that you don't know. You want to talk to somebody. Do you know a lawyer? They usually talk to family and friends. Sometimes they don't get good recommendations that way, but that's the only lawyer that person knows. Lawyers want to be known, but we're not like standing where you are when you need a lawyer,

Beverly: 2:15

and you're lawyers, you're not marketers necessarily. So that makes it challenging too, right? You just want to do law. You don't want to have to worry about exactly being. Everywhere that somebody is when they need them. I love the idea that You are the one that can handle that. Like you created your own business based on this kind of need and this frustration of connecting the right lawyer to the right person at the right time. So I think that's amazing. So share a little bit about your business's origin story, but we want to hear the light bulb moments, the kitchen table, brainstorming sessions, those aha breakthroughs that launched your legal resource into a full fledged business.

Lori: 2:53

I'm happy to share that story. If you can believe it this month, I celebrate my 20th year in business. So I haven't told the beginning stages story in a while. So it's fun to talk about it again. And really what my mission was in the beginning is still the same. So how it began was just prior to me creating this business. I had been a divorce attorney for 14 years and I said, you know what, that was long enough. I was good at it. I made good money. My clients were happy for the most part, but I just said, I don't want to be in that negative conversation every day of my life for the rest of my career. And then, I just happened to be in this course at my church. It was a church wide study by Rick Warren called The Purpose Driven Life. And some friends said, Oh, this course is going to change your life. And I'm like, Whatever! I'm not looking for my life to be changed. I'll just do this course. But I didn't see it. Like I was looking for my purpose or I needed to do something different. I had already decided I'm not doing this. Didn't even want you to call me a lawyer at that point. Cause I was not going to be a lawyer anymore. And I'm in this course and I find out that my purpose was to connect people. And that was just the big aha moment. It's Oh my gosh, I made a career out of ending relationships and I was meant to build them. So how in the world did I get into that other thing? And I know how I got into it when I was a brand new lawyer, my law partner didn't want to do divorces. So I got to do them. And then I just kept doing them. I didn't go to law school to be a divorce attorney. I didn't, graduate from law school saying I'm going to be a divorce attorney. It just happened. And so I was really glad that this purpose came along and said, no, Lori Williams, you were meant to connect people. And I thought, okay, that's cool. Then I was talking to my friend that I brought into that course with me and she was a coach, just happened to be a coach, right? These things just, we think they're coincidences, but they're divine interventions sometimes. Yeah. So I said to my friend, when we were talking after the course, I said, I'm supposed to connect people. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that because I just left law and what do we do now? And she said let's look at the lie. I said no. I don't want to go back to practicing law. She says, I didn't say you had to practice law, but let's just look at what did you like about being a lawyer? What didn't you like about being a lawyer? And out of those conversations, your legal resource was born. At the end of the day, my job was to, if you have a legal problem, I know who can solve it. And I said, that's way too easy. How can that be my business? And somehow, I just started doing it, started spreading the word. And that has been the joy. I love when the phone rings, someone has a need. I know who can fulfill it. And I don't have to be their expert. I just know who's their expert.

Beverly: 5:44

I love that it was a course and I also love that it was unplanned because I am an unplanned entrepreneur too and life circumstances changed my trajectory. And that you were like, it can't be this simple, but really our passions and what our purpose is simple. And we just have to figure out how it fits into everything else in our life. And I think listening to our soul, whatever that looks like for you, whether it's Church or universe or whatever that looks like, I think it's really important. So I think all entrepreneurs need to get back to that, the why, the passion, the purpose to make sure that they're doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing, because what, when that's an alignment, I think everything else works.

Lori: 6:23

All the marketing, all the making the business work. That part is the hard part, but the core of what I do and the part that's excited me 20 years ago still excites me today. Every time I can help a client. And when they just, mirror back to me what a difference that made in their life. That is just so fulfilling and some people could look at it like, what's the big deal? Lawyers refer to other lawyers all the time, but they don't do it the way I do it. I try to make a personality fit because the lawyers I refer to, I've known them five to 20 years, they've been practicing in their niche for 10 to 30 years. So these are well seasoned attorneys that I've had a long term relationship with. So I know what the client experience is going to be. It's not Oh, there's a lawyer on your corner. Try them. It's no. I'm actually referring you to someone I know, and trust. I know what the experience is going to be. So that's what makes it different. Certainly another lawyer can refer you to a buddy of theirs, but I'm referring you to, because I know this is going to be a good experience for

Beverly: 7:28

you. So is your legal resource unique in the legal industry? Are there other people who do what you do?

Lori: 7:34

There aren't, quote unquote, other individuals that I have found, at least not in my state. It might be. the case elsewhere. But in my local area, there isn't another Lori Williams sitting there, with a different name, doing the same thing that I'm aware of. But there are certainly, bar associations, you can find a lawyer in your county in your state by reaching out and saying, I'm looking for a lawyer for this, and they can refer you. But what I found from that when I was practicing attorney, Sometimes I'd get calls from clients for things I didn't even do. So the bar association is not matching the legal need with the lawyer that can fulfill that need. They're literally referring the client to the next lawyer on the list. And that was not helpful because the client might have to call back again and get a different referral and a different referral. And it was frustrating for the lawyer. It's like, why are you calling me for this? So that was another reason I knew I could be different than some of the other referral services out there.

Beverly: 8:33

So how do you ensure that you connect the clients to the right attorney for their specific needs? What does that process look like for you?

Lori: 8:42

Let's say you call me and say, Lori, I've been meaning to prepare a will and I haven't and my son is now about to graduate college and I should probably prepare a will. You know what I mean? So sometimes people tell me what they're looking for. Other times they describe this whole big problem they're having. Whatever they're telling me, I already know who I'm going to refer them to because I know over 500 lawyers and I've been referring to about 50 on a regular basis. And that 50 can increase, decrease, like different people come into the fold because of how they treat the client or because they might have retired or they might have moved. So that list is fluid, but the trusted relationships, have really prevailed and I've added some people. Because different areas of practice have come up that we didn't really have a need for before, or I didn't get a call for, but whatever it is the client's telling me, literally, if it's legal services in Michigan for an individual or a small business, I know somebody that can help them. My job is to sometimes just take the drama out of the situation and assess, I'm like an ER doctor, you're telling me all these facts and figures, and I'm thinking about, This area of law, and this area of law, and this area of law. And then you figure out what's a priority, what's something that's actionable, what's something that you want to spend money on hiring a lawyer to do. Sometimes people need a lawyer because they're upset about something, but when they find out they have to pay for it, it's oh, I don't want to spend all that. That's how it goes. So hopefully that answered your question

Beverly: 10:15

in a roundabout way. Yes. So who are your typical clients that you work with? Just regular people like me?

Lori: 10:21

Literally, I would say regular people is the key. And, it could be a family member or a friend that's calling me, but it's sometimes the people starting a business. Sometimes it's somebody who is an accident and they're seriously injured. So is it an auto accident or is it an accident because somebody did the surgery wrong? The average person, somebody I might have met at church or at the health club or you might have heard of score. That's a nationwide resource for small businesses and score refers to me a lot. At least the Metro Detroit chapter refers to me a lot. So if somebody's starting a business or, a couple is going to get divorced, they might call me, so It's any individual that needs a lawyer or anything in Michigan. That's the key in Michigan. I don't want to hear from people all over the country. Not that I don't love you guys, but only refer me or Michigan people. My lawyers are in Michigan. The clients need to be in Michigan usually, or at least have a Michigan legal issue.

Beverly: 11:16

Michigan attorneys are licensed there to do Michigan law, practice law there.

Lori: 11:22

We're licensed in one state. Now that's not to say some attorneys aren't also licensed in another state. I happened to one time do a referral for an estate plan for a Michigan client. Who also spent some time in Florida and I wasn't sure if they needed a Florida attorney. So I was talking to my colleague and he says, Oh my partner, it happens to be licensed in Florida too. So as long as the assets are in Michigan, we can help them. But if there's some Florida nuance, we need to know about my partner can handle that part. So it's perfect. I didn't have to go try to find a Florida lawyer and I wouldn't because I'm not trying to find a lawyer. I focused on Michigan cause that's where I've been all

Beverly: 12:02

my life. So reflecting on your entrepreneurial journey from divorce attorney to now 20 years, what is one aspect of your business strategy or decision making process that has evolved the most over the time and why?

Lori: 12:15

I would say marketing is what continues to evolve because I remember when I was brand new in this business, I didn't want to send a newsletter just to send a newsletter. It took me a while to figure out who's my audience. Who am I talking to? What do I want to say? What do I want it to look like? So I held off for a little while and I went to networking events to promote myself. I went to joined different professional organizations, went to workshops on marketing and whatnot. It was really about five years into my business before I said, you know what, I am going to do a newsletter and we'll, and I've been doing it ever since. It's probably 15 out of the 20 years has been, Doing email marketing through a newsletter and that has been very effective. And then social media came on the scene and I don't know if that was about 2008 ish. So that was something new where we could chat online and what did I want my social media strategy to be? Not just talking to people for social purposes. I do that too on Facebook. But did I want to post things that were law related? I evolved my social media strategy to talk about. issues in the news, legal, financial cybersecurity things for small businesses. I was posting an article here or there. And then those articles became what I'd start putting in my newsletter. So I was just, I didn't have to draft the articles. And I did have a period where I blogged for five years every Tuesday I blogged, and I said, after five years, I don't want to do that anymore. And what I did when I was doing it was I would interview other lawyers, we would have them be the subject matter expert, and I would write up, an article, they would give me a lot of the content some of the content I did write if it was about family law, just a way to showcase other lawyers. Not sure that was going to be a great strategy because I wanted the client to call me and not go directly to the lawyer because I might miss out on my referral fee. That's something we should mention is my service is always free to the client. I'm compensated if that client that I refer to the lawyer actually hires that lawyer, then the lawyer gives me a referral fee. They look at it like a marketing expense. I brought them a client, so they're going to give me a percentage of the money they made from that client. If the client doesn't hire The client still doesn't owe me anything. It was just, they learned something. Sometimes they'll just stop at me. Sometimes they'll go directly to the lawyer after I've talked to them. And then they decide if they want to spend the money.

Beverly: 14:45

So what's your favorite marketing tool or strategy? Is it email marketing?

Lori: 14:49

It's really relationship building, which sounds maybe hokey, but that is my favorite way because sure, you can just send stuff out to people, but if you don't have a relationship with them, they don't want to see it. You just look like spam. So I only email people that I've talked to. I've met before at an event, or maybe it's a client that wants to get a reminders of my services. So what I love is the relationship building. And I've always done that. Yeah. By being where you are, as they say, whether it's at my health club, I've gotten clients from my health club when people need a lawyer or through church or family and friends or joining a networking group, getting referrals that way. I spend time and I'm legitimately there to, just because I like people, I just want to be around people. And it's one of those things. Oh, what do you do as we start chit chatting with each other? So I know what they do. They know what I do. And when there's a need, and it may happen 20 years from now or it may happen tomorrow, they call me when they have a need. And that newsletter helps me stay top of mind with them. They may not need what's in the newsletter that moment, but it's it's a little commercial. Oh yeah. Call Lori if you ever need a lawyer. So I like relationship building more so than the, Let me send you something. I'd rather you ask me first to send you something and you could consider that passive, but I'll tell you I get so much email from people go on my contact page and solicit me for services. They've got, and it's no, this page is for my clients who need legal services, not for you to market to me. So I would much rather have. There's spam rules too. People shouldn't be sending you stuff without permission, but they do it all the time. So I don't want to just be junk mail in your inbox. I want you to know who I am and how I can be of value to you. And if it's not some type of relationship, I'm not saying we've spent a lot of time together, but sometimes we have, it just depends on that person. And they, I like to just really get to know people and what, who they are, what they do, are we a fit for one another? Just on a personal level.

Beverly: 16:54

I think you're right. Like my email list is that huge. You have to either somehow do business with me or sign up for something. Or have done like a podcast with me or something to be on my list because I want to at least know the person that I'm sending it to. So it's not that big, but what's great about that and being a little more particular about it, Lori, is my read rate is huge. My click through rate is huge because it's people who know and trust me, so I always say that clean it up, like making sure it's people you've talked to you, actual human beings, not robots, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think it's a little bit harder when you're like a retail store and you have like people come in and they sign up and so you might not know them all right away and over time, possibly, but you still need to go through, I think once a year and do a spring clean. If you haven't seen that person. Maybe one last email and then let them go. Like it's okay to not have everyone on your email list. It's perfect. You are absolutely

Lori: 17:48

right. Because I actually did take some people off the newsletter list that we just didn't really have any business synergy, but they might still see my stuff when I do my social media posts because we're still connected on LinkedIn and Facebook and Twitter. So you don't maybe need my newsletter every month or every quarter. It depends who you are. If you're a client, you get it quarterly. If you're in my network, you get it monthly. And it's not just, I don't just send a newsletter about call Lori Williams. It's like there is, it's so much content. It's so many subject matters. People always tell me there's always something in your newsletter that I find valuable. So that's the fun part is just, cause you don't know your audience when it's every legal service and everybody could use a lawyer. That's pretty broad. So I've tried to at least create some categories. Sometimes it's telling them, oh my gosh, recalls, we all eat and Heaven forbid you've got something in your freezer right now recall, you might have th you don't get to notice t recalled. So it's just li it's just like I have a s consumer warnings in my newsletter And privacy warnings. I'm always alerting people about those data breaches and, ways you're getting hacked, your systems are getting hacked into whether it's financial or health care or your phone company. They've all been hacked and our stuff is out there and it's just keeping people top of mind about these things they should be worried about or concerned about proactive about.

Beverly: 20:34

Can you share a moment of pride when your legal resource made a meaningful impact in the lives of your clients or community? What was the outcome and how did it shape your perspective on success for your business?

Lori: 20:48

For me, it's if they do write a testimonial or if they verbally tell me how it's really made a big difference in their life. I remember one woman you Case, a lot of the times I get calls for that and the injury is not serious enough to warrant litigation. She was able to get the maximum amount allowed under the law. Wow. And it was like that made a big difference in her life. Or it could be somebody who needed me to hold their hand, guiding them through the family law process and recommending an attorney that really listened to them, listening to the client. It's one thing for a lawyer to know about the law. It's another thing for that lawyer to be compassionate, empathetic. And, sometimes they're called to be an advocate for their clients. Other times they're there to create some documents, whether it's an estate plan or business or something like that, but. But you still want that client to feel heard, understood, and responded to. So first, that, that starts with me. I want them to feel that for me, and I want them to feel that from the attorneys I refer them to. When they write me a testimonial or verbally tell me, Oh, so and so was awesome. I just love that attorney. And I remember one person who, Hired an attorney that I recommended for a divorce. She's this person's so nice. She'd want to go out and have a drink with this lawyer. It's this is a good human being. This is somebody you'd want as your friend. And that's what you want to hear. Not just yeah, it was a real jerk, but I got my will done. Or, I got out of that ticket that I got, sometimes the lawyers don't give great customer service and sometimes they do, but the client still doesn't like the outcome. It's we're not in charge of the outcome, but we'll do the best we can to make sure you're treated fairly under the law.

Beverly: 22:28

That's interesting. You can't change the law to change the outcome. So the outcome is based on the law and the judge and not necessarily the attorney. And in that case, obviously you want to be the transaction isn't always a positive transaction. Interesting from a marketing perspective. Lori, can you share a fun fact about your business that even maybe some of your most dedicated customers might not know? We're talking about the quirky behind the scenes kind of details that make your brand unique, but people don't often know some of those things that are behind the scenes.

Lori: 23:00

And I feel like my origin story is one of those things. Not every single client knows about or needs to know about. I just assess the situation when I'm talking to them about when I'm going to tell them that story or if I'm going to tell them that story. Sometimes it's just not even part of the story. of the conversation. It just they just need something and I provide that service, but they don't actually ask me why are you in this business? How does this work? So I just tell them through our process and conversation. They probably don't know, sometimes I've been in the news I've had little TV spots here or there, I've been on podcasts, or they may not know all the relationships I've built over the years, joining networking groups, being on boards for different organizations, they just know, so and so told me to call you, and so they've got just this one experience, and sometimes don't even realize that my entire business as far as their concern is to connect them with somebody else. So I explained that I'm the referring attorney, so I just have to educate them sometimes about the law. Sometimes, I know just a little bit about that area of law, but I know who knows more. So that's why I'm making the referral. I tell them just like your doctor is going to refer you to a specialist. I'm the lawyer. You can call about any legal issue and I'm going to refer you to the specialist. So it's a trust relationship. And I think they just understand that as they experienced it. I can tell you I'm a trusted resource, but until you need me and know and trust and experience that those are just words. So they, I feel like they get to know me after the fact, after it's. I've delivered on the service. And after the attorney, I refer them to delivers on the service.

Beverly: 24:42

What is your long term vision for your legal resource? And how do you plan to continue evolving and adapting as the needs of your clients or your legal industry changes?

Lori: 24:52

I'm going to continue to listen and hear what the needs are. And if there's new areas of law that develop like cybersecurity law, we didn't know about that a few years ago and it started to develop. And when I reach, if I get a call about something that I don't already have a fit for, I start talking to my existing team to see if they're doing that or if Someone in their firm is handling, the unique areas the clients are calling about. So I'm going to, I'm going to do some of the same things I've always done is listen. And then I might say to the client, let me research this one. This is, you're the first case of impression on this issue. Let me dive into my team and see if we can help you and who can help you. And if not, I'll come back, I'll let you know either way. I would say, we're going to just have to maybe market differently as this time goes on. I, AI is a big thing. I don't know if I'm going to use AI in my business cause it's a one to one business. Like I'm not, trying to, Research some obscure area of the law where maybe a I will tell me, I think that's risky. I'd rather refer them to the lawyer that knows the law.

Beverly: 25:54

So are you seeing anything as far as AI related to law yet?

Lori: 25:59

I've seen that there's been some negativity about it, AI is sometimes stealing other people's intellectual property and it's making it sound like, it's not this author's information. It's just out there. That's a problem. That's a privacy or an intellectual property violation. I haven't clients could probably think that they could go find the answer to their legal question with AI, but I'd be a little hesitant about doing that because number one, was that even law that's true? Is it law in your state? Is it even law or is it just some article that AI came up with? I think we have to be careful and we want to go to the experts. Just like I could do my taxes if I wanted to, I'm going to go to an accountant, and if you have a legal problem, I think let's talk to the lawyer that actually knows about this instead of, it's fine to do some research to educate yourself, but then cross check it with the person that's the expert and see, I think I have a case based on this. What do you think? So that's, I think AI might be Just like you Google things, we're out there Googling things, looking for answers. And then we will decide, do we want to talk to a professional after that? I

Beverly: 27:09

think AI is this new wild west that we all have to figure out and there's going to come laws and regulations around it based intellectual property and some different things. And I think even now it's evolving where chat GPT just created partnerships now with some of the like New York times and different places to gather some of that information from properly with paid. They're getting monetary. Like a subscription

Restream recording Jun 10, 2024 • 02:07:13 PM: 27:35

they have to

Beverly: 27:35

pay for their content. Yes, exactly. As opposed to just taking it from the internet. So yeah, there's a lot of things that are changing with AI. We certainly do use it at BC and Associates. And I do think that prompt writing is a new superpower for most businesses. If they can learn how to craft prompts to get what they need to help save time. On things. I think that's amazing. I've actually equated it to a calculator. Like before calculators, we had to like manual, but as long as you put in the proper equation into the calculator, you'll probably get what you need out of it. You just need to be able to edit that or proof it Our next section is the lightning round. This is where I ask you some rapid fire questions. So this is really where it's like your gut reaction or short response. I may ask you a little bit follow up question, but mostly it's like this. We'll just kind from you about your busine from the seven questions first question. How have lasting connections on your entreprenuerial journey?

Lori: 28:36

Just spending ti first you meet

28:39

them and you stay in touch you deliver

Lori: 28:41

on your promises.

Beverly: 28:44

If your legal resource had a voice, wha would resonate from its c you deliver. Empathy Dive into the library of all that wisdom you have from the last 20 and then the 13 or 14 years before that you said you were a divorce attorney. Which book, podcast, or entrepreneur has left an indelible mark on your entrepreneurial journey?

Lori: 29:10

Can I give you two answers? The first one is Rick Warren with Purpose Driven Life, since it really did help me find my purpose. And the second one, I think podcast wise is I really love Glenn Doyle and we can do hard things and just hearing powerful women and Brene Brown too. That's a third answer about living authentically. I love women leaders out there and I enjoy, I'm listening to a lot of podcasts the last couple of years, and sometimes I listen to. Sometimes I'm listening to ones that are really substantive.

Beverly: 29:42

It's all a balance. You got to have a little bit, I call it edutainment. You got to have a little education, a little entertainment in there, right? So edutainment. What's one tool that you use that's a must have for your legal resource?

Lori: 29:54

I'd say I put contents contacts into constant contact, which is my email service. If I'm going to, continue to market to people and then as far as like really maintaining the contacts it's literally through outlook because I have my, I have written confirmation. The referral came in from the client. I made the referral to the attorney. I emailed the client and the attorney. So all three of us have a copy of that email and what it was you called about. And I have notes, they take the notes, but I make it electronic so that I can bring that up. If somebody's name comes up again on my phone, I'm like, Oh yeah, I've helped that client before. Let me do a little research. When was the last time we talked? And I might bring that into the conversation.

Beverly: 30:36

I love that. It's just, it's simple. It doesn't have to be over complicated. How do you keep your entrepreneurial spirit alive? What do you do to feed it, Lori? Because being an entrepreneur can be very lonely at times and we work a lot remotely and things like that. So how do you feed your soul in that?

Lori: 30:53

I treat my business like a ministry because people aren't asking me, a hundred referrals a day. It's it's basically like one a day or one every other day. So I treat it like a ministry. I'm just here to serve when you have a need. Now, if I was only, Using that as a way to stay alive, it would become very anxious for me. So I've learned to create multiple streams of business income, whether it's in my business or outside my business, so that I'm not just waiting for the phone to ring and worried about if it doesn't ring, I can't pay that bill. So I have detached myself from, if I'm helping you, I'm not like, am I going to make X amount of dollars from this phone call? It's just I'm going to help you. It may or may not turn into business. and have a nice day. And here's the referral or here's not the referral. It doesn't make sense for you to call a lawyer based on what we've just talked about. That's it. I've really treated it like at this stage of the game. In the beginning, it was like, we can help everybody. And I think that was to my detriment because in the beginning, you don't really know where to focus your time. Or where to focus your dollars. So you're just throwing things on the wall, join every group or attend every function. And the hard part for me was to not. Spend more time networking. It was like, okay, you've laid the groundwork and now we're going to continue to stay in front of people, but you don't have to run yourself ragged doing that. You're going to help the people that need you. And you don't have to be preaching to everyone you meet, you're not trying to sell somebody. And going to networking events doesn't mean you're there to sell something. You're just there to meet people. So I can meet somebody in the grocery store. I could meet somebody who calls me on the phone. Or I could be at an event, or I could be at church, it just doesn't matter. It's just be where you are, be of service. And that's what's worked for me is to detach myself from, am I going to make X dollars from this call? It just always works out. And I'll get what I would call windfall referral fees. When people have an injury case, those pay very well when it turns into the end of their case and hundreds of thousands of dollars are involved and the attorney gets a third of that and I get a third of their third. So essentially 10%. So it's like I might have talked to you for 30 minutes or an hour. I might have made tens of thousands of dollars. The highest referral fee so far was 60, 000 on that one medical malpractice case I was telling you about. Other times I might make literally 50. And other times I might make nothing. So it's there's a big spectrum. So I'm there to serve. And certainly, I feel like God brought me this business. So he wants to make sure that I am of service and I'm getting paid. But I also have other legal work that I do outside my business. So I can continue to Pay my bills and enjoy being in the legal field. I love the statement.

Beverly: 33:40

Be where you are and be of service. I think if we all showed up that way, what a wonderful world we'd live in. So I love that phrase so much. It like triggered something to my, in my soul when you said it, I was like, Oh, it's so good. Okay. So what do you do to stay grounded and to maintain that sense of purpose and clarity amidst. The world is chaotic and there is so much uncertainty. So what is it still that be of service show up where you are and be of service? Is it still resonating?

Lori: 34:12

The story is the same 20 years later and how I got here might be a little bit different. And. I might've ruled some things out, but it's just like at the core, it, I can be super relaxed about it. Now, in the beginning I felt I got to make this a business. So it was too easy to say, I just hear a client who has need and I refer them then. What do I do the rest of my day? It's evolved over time. I just have to stay busy. I stay busy with other legal work that I do. I stay busy, for many years, I raised my boys, while I had my business that was busy as a parent, busy being on boards and busy being in organizations, networking, volunteering at church. For me, if I wasn't working during the pandemic, I would have just freaked out. I, but luckily I was super busy during the pandemic and not just with my business, but with the other legal work that I do. So it was like, thank you. Just keep me busy. And then I stay out of trouble and I stay at peace, but there becomes turmoil when I'm sitting idle and I don't have something to do. And I always find something to do. Like today I'm on this podcast, this is normally a time I wouldn't be available, but it just worked out that, I am free. So it's let's do this. Let's do some marketing. I love it. So find ways to say yes. And find ways to maybe say not now let's do it over here or no, that's not for me. Protecting your time when you have more time, you can be more open and sometimes you have to say no.

Beverly: 35:37

With time comes wisdom of what you, your purpose is too. There's a certain confidence in your niche and in, in how you do things. And it does evolve as a business In a place where I feel much more confident than I did when I first started, obviously being unplanned, that creates some chaos in the process, because you have to figure all the things out But after, 12 or 10 years, I feel like I have a good flow and who I am and what I do. And it is really a it's an exercise in who you are, what you do, what your purpose is when you have a business. There are moments of true clarity and then there are moments of wait, this isn't right and you have to come to terms with that. It forces you to if you want to have a really authentic and prosperous business I think you have to meet yourself at those moments and do the work to make it happen.

Lori: 36:26

You really have to listen to that. What's causing the anxiety? What's getting your heart going and not in a positive way? You have to truly listen to your body and really be led. When to say yes, what to say yes to. And honestly, Beverly, I commend you because you have moved around this country as your husband's job has required it. And you've essentially started over with new communities. You're still doing the same type marketing work websites, different types of marketing, but you've had to build relationships in every new community that you start. So maybe for you, it's where your son's in school or scouts or sports. So you've made new relationships everywhere you go.

Beverly: 37:01

It goes back to that phrase though. It's where you are. So if I'm a scout or if I'm at basketball or if I'm at, I'm just where I am and I'm of service where I can be. So I think that is, and luckily for me, I'm not just based in Michigan. My, my business is out of Michigan because it's a home of record due to the military. But I can do business anywhere. So I still have reliance from Detroit. I still have, and a lot of my business is referral as well. When you do a good job, people typically will. But my strongest network is still back home in Michigan. That time spent that I built my network was very worthwhile. It's definitely an investment that has. paid off. But just like you said, you have to nurture those relationships and you have to continue to have a conversation with people to make sure that those relationships are continuing to grow. And I think when you give too, I think that you, there's a lot of reciprocity as well. And both my husband and I live a life of service in many ways., the last couple, the last session is like the blaze forward segment where we look back at your entrepreneurial journey and what you've accomplished. What pivotal piece of advice you wish you had received earlier in your career? And how might this insight have saved you valuable time, resources, and headaches along the way?

Lori: 38:18

It probably would have been helpful to know I wasn't created to be a divorce attorney before I set out to be one and it would have been nice to know what area of law I was going to practice. And I tried that. I loved working for a personal injury firm when I was in law school and I was a law clerk. That means you're in school and you're working at a law firm. And I loved that. But when it came time to get hired. They didn't have a need to hire me. They had enough staff. So it was like now what? And I had worked for this general practitioner who was looking to add to his practice. So it was like unemployment or partnership. Which one should I do? Okay, I'll do this one. And he had a general practice, which I appreciated because it let me see what I liked and what I didn't like. And out of all his stuff, I did a little bit of the first But I zeroed in on divorce and I quickly was good at it. And it doesn't mean it's what you're meant to do forever, but for that season of my career and to get my confidence, that's really being a litigator. I didn't see myself as a litigator, but my dad says, Oh, you're born to be a lawyer. You've been arguing since you were 16 years old. So I don't need to fight and I can believe me. I'll have an ex husband ask him. So I can be tough. I can be, but I'm fair and I will fight for what's right. And I'm not just trying to have it my way. Although sometimes I do think my way is best. Not everybody agrees.

Beverly: 39:46

I totally agree with that. There's no question.

Lori: 39:50

I don't really question the past because it's what got you where you are today. And had I not had the walk that I had, I might not have ended up at Kensington, may not have ended up doing the Purpose Driven Life, study. And sometimes you have to go through a few detours to get where you're meant to be. Some people get out of the gate doing what they're meant to do, but in this world, we have a lot of different careers before we finally pass from this earth, so I have liked that. I've had several different careers and I'll just throw that in because we didn't talk about what those other careers were, but they were in law. I did compliance for four and a half years for a financial services company. I even did legal staffing for a really short time. That was another way to be a connector. If a lawyer needed a job at a firm and the firm needed to hire and I was involved in legal staffing. What was another one? The last since 2019, I've been doing multi district litigation cases as a document review attorney. That is something where if a company is going to merge, let's say Google is going to merge with some other company, or Amazon is going to merge with some other company, the Department of Justice might get involved or the FTC might get involved. It's usually Department of Justice to see if there's an antitrust violation, which is the monopoly rule. So if two companies want to merge, they'd have to see. send out notice that we're intending to merge. And then the Department of Justice has to decide if they're going to approve it. So there's just like millions of documents that we have to sort through. And then the lead council actually takes what we've determined is relevant and then produces it to the other side, which is often the Department of Justice, or it might be a litigation case where they have to produce documents. And so it's fun for me because I've learned about so many different industries. Whereas before my subject matter expertise was just family law. Now I'm getting to read about all these different things going on out there. That's all confidential. I can't really talk about any of them, but it's fun for me to get my brain really engaged in that type of work. I also did bank fraud investigations. I did two, like almost a year stint here and a full year there. And then the document review in between. But it's so fun for me and I can't wait for the next one to start because I'm getting antsy. I'm like the last one ended on 531. It feels like it's been a really long time. So let's get another one going. You're like a detective, it's yeah. And we have to do some research on that investigation work. But the other work, it's like the evidence is already there. It's what's in the database, but it's more like looking at emails and text messages and things like that. So it's fun. You're reading, looking for these clues. So I'm like a detective in that way.

Beverly: 42:32

So what practical advice would you offer to another small business entrepreneur who's just starting out or is along their journey, but maybe looking for some unique opportunities? Share a tangible strategy or approach that could they can put into action like right now right away to make a difference I

Lori: 42:50

did a lot of coaching of small businesses whether it was lawyers or CPAs people that really needed Strategic partners to get referrals. So it's if you're somebody that wants to know lawyers lawyers want to know different professionals too because they hope you're going to refer to them So whatever your business is What other products or services compliment your business? Who can you refer to and who's referring to you? And when I was a divorce attorney, I couldn't stand out on the corner saying, Hey, you want to get a divorce today? I'm available. I had to build relationships with marriage counselors. Cause that's where my clients would go sometimes before they would come to me and financial advisors would refer to me and CPAs would refer to me. So whatever your business is. Build that community of people you have synergy with. You're going to refer to them. They're going to refer to you and join your local chambers of commerce and other networking groups that are there to support the small business owner. There's so many of them in Metro Detroit. That's how Beverly and I first met at some networking group. I don't know if it was Motor City Connect or a different one, but we have, met because we were out there going to an event where you had to You know, say who you are and what you do and exchange business cards. And you just never know where it's going to lead. Who knew we'd be doing this, so many years later.

Beverly: 44:09

And that's what's so funny. I was trying to think, wasn't Motor City Connect or Automation Alley, or I was going through all my lists of networking groups. I'm like, I'm not sure which group, but I do know that I saw you around town a lot for two years. Like we were at a lot of events together and became friends, like just because we kept meeting each other and things like that. At the time, and I was doing translation services, which you didn't really need so yeah, that's right. I remember that

Lori: 44:31

first company you were part of.

Beverly: 44:33

Yeah. Yeah. So it wasn't like we had a synergy there, but we just became friends, which was nice. And then later on, my my husband was married before and had a child and we had some custody issues, but we need an attorney and we used your services a couple of times in relation to some court issues for that. Having you in my database was amazing because I knew exactly where to go to when we were looking for an attorney. It was 10 years probably after we met that I actually used your services So you never know when you're planting seeds and developing your business and patience is key in that. And it is a constant kind of gardening, growing, seeding, planting, nurturing process in that. Okay. The last question I have before we go is what, why don't you share with our listeners where they can learn more about your legal resources and keep up with your latest projects?

Lori: 45:25

Sure. My website is www. Bestlegalresourceresource. com. And at the bottom of any page of the website, you can subscribe to a newsletter. You can get one monthly or quarterly and just you could stay in touch with me that way. You can email me that I have a contact page on the website. The newsletter will give you current articles because every month I'm sending out articles and however often you want to stay in touch. And then certainly just give me a call or an email if you have a need in Michigan for legal services.

Beverly: 46:01

Thank you so much, Lori, for sharing your wealth of knowledge and expertise with us today. Thank you, Beverly. It was great to talk to you. Lori's Insights have illuminated our listeners paths, offering valuable tips and strategies to enhance their business and their legal endeavors. And to our listeners, I hope you found this episode as enlightening as I did. And remember to implement the insights shared today into your Small business or your life. And it don't hesitate to reach out to Lori or myself. If you have any further questions or need assistance stay tuned for more inspiring conversations and actionable tips to ignite your business and marketing journey on future episodes of the spark and ignite your marketing podcast. Until next time, keep sparking and igniting.