Matt Chambers Connects
Medellin, Colombia: An Expat's Paradise
What if you could escape the cold winters and high costs of living by moving abroad? Join me, Matt Chambers, and my long-time friend John Homs as we share our personal experiences and insights on the appealing lifestyle of Medellin, Colombia. From its year-round 70 degree climate to the financial perks. John and I compare our lives in Latin America to the often harsh realities of living in the United States. Discover why Medellin’s charm continually draws expats and how living abroad can provide a comfortable retirement or early retirement through cost-effective living and tax advantages.
We take you on an engaging journey through John's fascinating life story. Influenced by his father's pioneering work with Pan American World Airways, John’s path in marketing and design was paved with determination, unpredictability and unrivaled persistence. From hitchhiking on sailboats in Europe, being a taxi driver in New York, to studying film under Martin Scorsese, , John’s life is a true testament to resilience. We delve into his professional milestones and the mentorships that shaped his career, offering valuable lessons on persistence and adaptability.
Our conversation also explores the unique challenges and opportunities of setting up a business in Latin America. We touch on the pitfalls of local investments, the benefits of earning in dollars remotely, and the immense advantages of affordable healthcare in Colombia. Furthermore, John shares his personal journey to happiness and contentment since moving to Medellin, emphasizing the freedom and excitement that come with embracing a new culture. Tune in to hear why living abroad might just be the best decision for your financial and personal well-being.
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https://linktr.ee/mattchambers
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https://www.buzzsprout.com/2296085/support
https://paypal.me/mcconnects
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What if you could escape the cold winters and high costs of living by moving abroad? Join me, Matt Chambers, and my long-time friend John Homs as we share our personal experiences and insights on the appealing lifestyle of Medellin, Colombia. From its year-round 70 degree climate to the financial perks. John and I compare our lives in Latin America to the often harsh realities of living in the United States. Discover why Medellin’s charm continually draws expats and how living abroad can provide a comfortable retirement or early retirement through cost-effective living and tax advantages.
We take you on an engaging journey through John's fascinating life story. Influenced by his father's pioneering work with Pan American World Airways, John’s path in marketing and design was paved with determination, unpredictability and unrivaled persistence. From hitchhiking on sailboats in Europe, being a taxi driver in New York, to studying film under Martin Scorsese, , John’s life is a true testament to resilience. We delve into his professional milestones and the mentorships that shaped his career, offering valuable lessons on persistence and adaptability.
Our conversation also explores the unique challenges and opportunities of setting up a business in Latin America. We touch on the pitfalls of local investments, the benefits of earning in dollars remotely, and the immense advantages of affordable healthcare in Colombia. Furthermore, John shares his personal journey to happiness and contentment since moving to Medellin, emphasizing the freedom and excitement that come with embracing a new culture. Tune in to hear why living abroad might just be the best decision for your financial and personal well-being.
Follow me on Social:
https://linktr.ee/mattchambers
If you'd like to support the show, use the links below.
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2296085/support
https://paypal.me/mcconnects
https://cash.app/$mattchambers11
Hello and welcome to Matt Chambers Connects, a podcast hosted by Matt Chambers. This is the podcast that transcends boundaries, empowers cross-cultural connections and fosters a more connected world. I'm your host, matt Chambers, and I invite you to join us on this quest to expand our understanding and build bridges between my two favorite places on the planet Latin America and the United States. I've been traveling, living and doing business in Latin America for nearly two decades.
Speaker 2:Guys, I'm here today with my friend John, who I have known here in Medellin, colombia, for wow six, seven years, right, I've been here seven, so I think you've been here just about the same amount of time, I believe yeah.
Speaker 1:I think about 2017. We met in the gym.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember that. I actually remember that. It seems like yesterday. I know I can't believe it's been seven years Wow.
Speaker 1:Crazy, right, yeah, amazing. How have you been Everything good?
Speaker 2:Everything's really good. I've been actually away from Medellin for a while. I was with my family up in Connecticut, but just so cold up there it was 15 degrees and Celsius, that's minus five. And when you tell the taxi driver, menos cinco de grados, they go crazy. They can't even picture it. I really. I just don't like winter and this part of Latin America is just great for me. The weather, of course. Medellin is famous for its weather. It's consistent. It's low temperature of 65, high temperature of 82, rains every afternoon and a little bit in the evening. That's what you got every day and I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so funny. Everyone that I've had on the show so far that has experience in medicine, which has been quite a few. At this point, everyone brings up the weather.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's famous for its weather. They talk about San Diego and I really don't know San Diego. I understand it has great weather, but I can't imagine it's any better than here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in San Diego you have to pay 60% taxes. You don't want to do that?
Speaker 2:Oh no, we don't want to do that. Here we get, we don't pay taxes and we get a 60% discount on everything you know, and more. There's multiple layers of benefit, for sure.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:I think that's true for all of Latin America, which is really if you're predisposed to like looking for an adventure in your life, or maybe leaving your old world and want to discover new things, and there are multiple benefits to leaving the United States, perhaps if that's where you're from.
Speaker 1:Anywhere in the Western world.
Speaker 2:I would argue right, yeah, if you're looking for something, yeah the quality of life here jumps up many levels and there we can talk about that later if you want, but there there are many specific benefits that you can get.
Speaker 1:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2:You know it's not perfect. Quality of life is for me. Once I got comfortable, once I did my research and I got comfortable with the pricing structure here, I started to look at Medellin as an investment decision actually not just like a place to go and live. But you look back at the, at your financial situation, and you can see that you can actually make money by living here, absolutely, and you don't have to do anything. It's weird, but I don't know if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, I think if you're invested well and you have enough money I've seen it myself If you're invested well and you come here and you're living a normal life, your money makes more than you spend.
Speaker 2:Let's just say, hypothetically, you have some kind of an investment account. Okay, so you have some money working for you, maybe in a fund that tracks the S and P, or you have some stocks or whatever you have. But on top of that, if you have social security of any reasonable amount, I have found that I'm not touching my other investments at all. They're just sitting there reinvesting dividends and I'm living off my social security and I have money to spend at the end of the month. It's like magic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you were in Connecticut? You'd be exhausting all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just to put a pin in that for a second. But Connecticut decided to become like Florida because, all the retirees were like bailing out of Connecticut because there was all that tax, and so to keep those people there, they're phasing in the same kind of tax structure that Florida has over three years. It starts this year, so I did have my legal residence in Florida, but now I'm going to go back and keep it in Connecticut because that's where my family is. It just makes more logistical sense for me to be there.
Speaker 1:So anyway, that makes sense for them, but in my opinion they're going to need to not only take away the state tax, but they're going to have to put a fucking heater in that place.
Speaker 2:I'm here because I don't need a heater or an air conditioner which is amazing and my laundry dries in two hours. I don't have to run it through a dryer. So I'm like I buy nice clothes and I don't want to ruin them in a dryer. So, anyway, so we're getting off topic.
Speaker 1:Let's do this. I want people to be able to put you know who they're listening to and who they're talking to into perspective, so that they know what you did in the state prior to coming here. So why don't we talk about that? Why don't we go a little bit through your life journey, how you grew up, and that you grew up in Argentina, specifically?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was born in Argentina my father went to work for right after the second world war because he has some Spanish heritage and spoke Spanish. He went to work for Pan American World Airways, which a lot of people never even heard of it, but they put airline travel on the map. Basically, they were the first airline to like, bring the world to the United States or customers, clients everywhere, and in those days Pan Am was looking to build routes all around the world and of course there's the there. There were routes from the United States to Central and South America and because my father had some Spanish background, could speak the language, he got sent to Argentina where I came along and spent the first couple of years of my life there. We moved to Peru. I think we spent about a year in Recife, brazil, and then we moved to Coral Gables, florida, where I did my growing up.
Speaker 1:Right in Miami, yeah, miami, yeah.
Speaker 2:Moved from there to. I went to military school Stanton Military Academy for one year, which I absolutely loved, and then I ended up going to moving to Connecticut. My father took a job with American Airlines and, a side note, he's in marketing, obviously. Let me just back up for a second and say that his job in Central and South America was helping. They didn't know what tourists were, they didn't know what tourism was, they didn't know what foreigners were, and they needed to be ready to accept a tidal wave of people coming with money, wanting to spend it, wanting to see their country and have experiences in a new culture, and so he had to teach people how to deal with tourists, and so that was his fundamental job. So anyway, so back to what we were talking were talking about. He went to work for American Airlines, and this is all going to tell you why I have been doing what I've been doing.
Speaker 2:But when he went to work for American Airlines, he is the person who started the idea of the in-flight magazine. Do you remember those I do In-flight magazines. He said he thought I've got a captive audience just sitting there for a period of time, and so he started publishing something called the American Way, which was the first of many different in-flight magazines. So he was very much into marketing. That ultimately ended up being my path, my professional path.
Speaker 2:I ran a couple of strategic design firms helping clients do marketing communications and ultimately, before I came here, I had a company that was focused on helping companies with their strategic branding, positioning of their product or service and how best to communicate it to internal audiences which is important and connect that to external audiences, Because it doesn't work unless you have the same conversation coming from the company and why we're here to a set of people who are already predisposed to want to know about your product. So that's basically my. I'm a creative director and owner of that business, which we closed a couple of years ago before I came down to Columbia.
Speaker 1:I know you told me a story. We were out to dinner one time and you told me a story about being in New York. You had, like, your first year in New York or something. You couldn't find work in the beginning. You ended up as a taxi driver for about a year. Oh yeah, and then there was a really cool story about your life that I think is important, when you were trying to get a job as a young guy at a very famous design firm.
Speaker 2:Can you share that story?
Speaker 1:To me. I think I got a lot of value out of that because it's a good lesson on persistence and I've always been a persistent person myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's one of your strengths. Once you get your teeth into something you know, I guess we're both in sales in a way we don't want to deal with. No, right yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't like that.
Speaker 2:I like the challenge of finding the door in.
Speaker 1:I was thinking about that earlier today. I was going out for a walk early this morning just for some exercise and Just reflecting a little bit on my own life, especially in the furniture business. I think, when I look back, everything I did was basically a cold call and not just picking up the phone and calling.
Speaker 1:But if I picked up the phone and called and someone didn't answer like an owner of a company or CEO of a company. Then he didn't answer my phone call. Of course he doesn't even know who the hell I am. Who's this Matt guy? He didn't even have me saved in his phone. Why would he answer? So I think showing up at his office was important, just being the guy that he sees you every week and eventually they, they were.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to get the car and go over there why don't you share that story about you were a taxi driver for yeah I drove.
Speaker 2:Actually, when I graduated from nyu in film and television production and actually had martin scorsese as one of my professors, he was just a young, yeah, he was making his first movie at the time and I remember him very well. We all were making films all the time and I made some very abstract films and I remember the class hating my films. But I remember Martin Scorsese going yeah, he's got some interesting ideas there. I think that could be developed. That sort of made my life in a way to have. He wasn't Martin, martin Scorsese.
Speaker 1:He was a famous?
Speaker 2:No, not at all. He was just a guy starting his career. But I never forgot how he, how supportive he was, and I've, I have really tried to be supportive of anybody that I meet, that I care about to, whatever their goals are. I've always gone out of my way to offer a kind word or do something supportive and I never forgot how far that went for me. So it was. When I look back at my entire college career, that was one of the things that that you know when I got my degree really lasted for me. A small thing like that's amazing how you know if you put yourself out and help somebody, just even a little bit, that can change their entire outlook For sure.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, so I graduated from NYU and and I didn't know what to do, so I went to Europe and I started hitchhiking on sailboats. I was just working on these like luxurious sailing yachts through the Mediterranean England, france, africa, out to the Canary Islands, and really it was quite amazing. I was like dirt poor. How old were you at this point? I was like 20, 21, 22.
Speaker 2:And I had no money at all and I remember that when you work for these rich people, they send you into town to do stuff and they just hand you money and you bring back the stuff that they want and you give them the money. They go hold on to the money and I remember like all the time I just had nothing to cut off jeans and every now and then I'd be opening the pockets of my jeans. I'd find like wads of cash in there and I got, wow, I don't even have a job, really, but I get this money because they didn't want the money. It's just changed to dollars and $10, $20. It's just kept refilling itself like, like social security, which I want to talk to you about later on.
Speaker 2:So it was great. It was great. So, anyway, that happened for about three years. I remember sitting on a dock in where was I? In? Somewhere in Portugal no, I'm sorry, it was in the Canary Islands yeah, grand Canary Island and thinking about gee, I could do this for the rest of my life there are a lot of people who start working on sailboats, and it's such a beautiful life.
Speaker 2:It's so clean and peaceful. Oh, it's just when you're out on the sea which just you, don't? You get covered with salt. You don't even need to take a shower because you've got like a layer of salt and you're always fresh, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:I thought I could do this the rest of my life and I would really be happy doing it, and I thought, no, I've got some drive and I really need to get back and put myself to the test. I managed to get some money. I got a ticket back to New York, which I was familiar with, and that's when I started driving a cab for a couple of years, because that's what that's the professional Ellis Island of everybody that comes to New York. You don't know anybody, you don't have any. You can pretty much get a job driving a cab A cab yeah, no GPS.
Speaker 2:Remember maps? How horrible maps were? Oh geez. Remember, like you mean the Atlas, like anything. Remember relying on maps or directions? Oh yeah, geez.
Speaker 1:You go a mile this way and you're going to take that left at the. I grew up in West Virginia. Myrtle Beach was a thing. It was like eight hours away and I remember my dad and mom getting half the car. They're drawing a lot Wow.
Speaker 2:Now you're like what Young people now that don't remember the like absolute terror of being late to go someplace and like having to rely on a map that you'd be like really has practically no significance in your life, anyway, so, anyway. So I did that for a couple years. It was a great experience. I met, I learned a lot. You. You learn all about human nature driving a cab, because you've got this. It almost do a television show about the people that come in and out of your cab.
Speaker 2:Everybody's different oh, I remember my very first day. I was in front of bloomingdales and it's this wealthy, snooty woman, cottonback I was. It was my like my second fair of the day, my first day, and you have to do some bookkeeping and and she gets in the back. It was my second fare of the day, my first day. And you have to do some bookkeeping and she gets in the back and I'm doing my bookkeeping from the last ride. So she goes, let's go. And I go. I said, oh, excuse me, ma'am, we're going, I just need to fill out some things. She goes, I don't care what you have to fill out.
Speaker 2:She starts stamping on the floor, she says let's go, and I just turned around to her and I said I couldn't believe, because I'm not this type of person at all. I just turned around to her and I said, ma'am, this car is going nowhere with you in it, so you can either stomp your foot there or you could get out and find another cab. And she blew up and she left. Anyway, I prized the hell out of myself because I'm a gentle person with other people. I don't want to, I don't want to get people angry or anything like that. But man, she pushed a button anyway. So that was a good learning experience for me, because I didn't know you could do those kinds of things and succeed, I think in New York, it's better.
Speaker 1:I think New Yorkers, they have this tough outer shell. But then when they figure out that you do it all day in New York, it's a few, and if you take that you're screwed. They'll just run over you. But if you look back and you say I'll screw you too, they're like your best friend.
Speaker 2:My favorite story about New Yorkers is a guy's walking down the street and he's walking towards a guy who's a New Yorker and he goes to the guy. He goes. He says I really need your help. And the New Yorker goes what do you mean? Who are you? And the guy goes no, I need some help. And the guy goes well, what do you need? And the guy goes you know what I need? I need you to cut off your arm. And the New Yorker goes what do you mean? You need me to cut off my arm? What are you talking about? The guy goes I really need you to do that. And the New Yorker goes all right, I'm going to do it, but you better really fucking need it. And that is exactly what New Yorkers are all about.
Speaker 2:When there's a crisis think of 9-11 or think of anything when you're in New York, you're never alone. People think they're cold, and people are cold or standoffish, but when you need somebody, there is nothing like a New Yorker to give you a powerful, take your back and give you some protection. Help you out. So, anyway, I love New York. New York is much easier to live in than it is to visit, because if you're visiting. Your filtration system isn't set yet and there's so much input your brain wants to explode every day. But once you get your routine down, it's a lovely place to live because it's got a lot to offer, but anyway. So I didn't have a job. I had an education but I didn't have a job. And I found a job in a small publisher. And I found a job in a small publisher and I was just like working on stupid stuff and I remembered that the art director we used to see portfolios and everything like that Designers and illustrators would come in and bring their work for inclusion at work.
Speaker 2:They were doing it at the publisher, excuse me.
Speaker 1:And I was thinking like hey, that's cool.
Speaker 2:I wonder what's in those portfolios? I had no idea, and so after a while I learned how creative work works. I had basic knowledge of art and things like that, and so I thought you know what? I'm going to be a designer, even though I didn't have any real training in that. And I started going at night to the Donnell Art Library, which is its own building, part of the New York City Public Library, dedicated strictly to art, design and architecture and those kinds of things, and I started studying design, teaching myself, and I can tell you that I probably have looked at every design book in that library at least once, and I got obsessed with it. I thought this is great, you're working with these tools like typography, color, form and all these things. I thought this really appeals to me. I found something that I find really attractive to my brain, and so I thought, okay, I need a portfolio, obviously because I remembered that people are bringing portfolios in to show the art director and the art director says, yeah, I'll hire you to do this illustration or these layouts or whatever.
Speaker 2:And and during this period I ran I kept seeing the name Louis Dorfman. All right, and who's Louis Dorfman? Louis Dorfman was the creative genius behind CBF, which was considered the Tiffany of networks and really the Tiffany of corporate design. There were people all over the world that wanted to come and work for CBS. It was really the castle on the hill and they only had the best people working there. They had the best budgets and they hired the best architects.
Speaker 2:All the furniture at CBS was by the Charles Eames and Florence Knoll and all of these famous people and I kept seeing his name and, being the kind of person I am, I kept thinking like, got to work for this guy. It was very naive at the time, because top graduates from Yale design school and all kinds of places from all over the world wanted to come and work at CBS because they were famous for what they did in terms of corporate communications and identities and everything they did on air, and so I thought, obviously I need a portfolio. So I put together a portfolio naive little me puts together a portfolio and I thought, okay, it looks pretty good. I had no ideas, had no real samples of any work that was ever produced. Everything was fake.
Speaker 1:Here's a letterhead.
Speaker 2:Here's a brochure, here's a this, here's a that the things people were using those days. So I faked it on paper and I bought a little portfolio thing with handles and had plastic sleeves and I thought, hey, now I have a portfolio. So I thought, what am I going to do? I'm going to CBS because they're going to want to see this. Where else would I go? There was no other In my mind. There was no other place, matt. There was no other place. So at those days there wasn't building security. I go to the lobby which floor is Lou Dorfman's office on? They go oh, he's on. Let's see, I was on 27. He's on 26. And so I go 26th floor and I'm walking around with my portfolio. It's, which way is Lou Dorfman's?
Speaker 2:office I go down to the corner over there. Down to the corner, and his secretary is sitting out there, she had this beautiful array of antique microphones. It all said CBS from when he's on. It was beautiful really. And so I said hi. And she goes hello, can I help you? And I said I came here to show Lou Dorsum in my portfolio and she said oh okay, who are you? And I said I'm looking for a design position. She goes oh, really Okay. And she said you can drop your portfolio off. And I said can I just show it to him personally?
Speaker 2:I really want to drop it off and she goes I'm sorry, but you have to drop it off. And I said where do I drop it off? And she motions over to the side of her officer. She goes right there, matt, literally there were 50 to 60 portfolios lined up with each other. She said I'll just put it in that stack and he'll look at it when he gets to it.
Speaker 2:And I just looked at it. It was like looking into like a starry sky with a million stars at night. It's like where's my store going to fit? And not choosing me at all, I'm just looking at it going. That's not possible. So anyway, I said I don't know I should.
Speaker 2:And so she was looking at me like you must be crazy, or I feel sorry for you, or something like that, because I wasn't accepting that situation. And I said do you have any suggestions? She goes you could go downstairs and talk to Mr David November, who is in charge of network advertising. I don't know if I want to do that. And so I said, okay, I'll do that. So I go downstairs to 26 and I look for David November's office and he wasn't in. Found he was in a corner office right below Lou Dorfman's office, because he's another big wig right. So I'm looking around, and so I walked into his office, I put my portfolio on his chair, I took one of his post-it notes and I wrote him a note. I said, dear Mr November, dropping off my portfolio for your review. I'll call you in a day or two and I'll call you.
Speaker 1:I'm not waiting on you, so.
Speaker 2:I was young and naive, but I had some kind of intelligence, natural intelligence, to manage these kinds of things. And so I put it there and I called him like two days later and I said I got him on the phone, these are days when you could do those kinds of things. And he said I said did you see my portfolio? And he said yes, I did John About, like that. And I said what did you think he goes? I don't know. I don't know if you're quite the kind of person that we're looking for, meaning like you have no experience. Subtext you have no experience at subtext.
Speaker 2:You have no experience at all. Why are you wasting my time? You need to go out and get some work and prove yourself before you come back here ever. And so I said, oh no, I know I could fit in nicely. He goes, he goes. I don't really know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:And so I said I got off the phone and, um, I wrote him a letter. I actually made a letterhead. I just like a stamp of a seal from home, syria. H-o-m-s is my last name. It has a second largest city in Syria is named H-O-M-S. I'm not exactly sure what the connection is. It might be from the crusaders going to Spain, because my grandfather was Spanish. And so I made a stamp and on my name and all this, I said I wrote him a letter and said dear Mr November, thank you for reviewing my portfolio. I know I can be a real asset at CBS. I said the only way for me to prove it is for you to give me a chance. Signed me, okay. So I sent him the letter, I called, I waited two days, two or three days, whatever, and I called him up and I said hi, mr November, john Holmes, did you get my letters? He said yes, john, I got your letter. I said what did you think?
Speaker 2:Obviously he didn't know, and so I said, okay, I'm going to come in and pick up my portfolio. And on my way up I saw in the elevator bank. I saw the job listings and I noticed that they had a position in network advertising for an art director. You don't start at art director, you end at art director. And so when I went to get my portfolio, he was there and I said what did you think? He goes.
Speaker 1:No, and I said on the way up here I actually saw that you guys are looking for an art director, and just totally no, I'm not listening to you, listen to me.
Speaker 2:Don't listen to yourself. And so he goes. John, these are people who have a lot of experience. They have very important jobs here. I said I know I could work, I know I could work myself into that. He's like looking at me, like maybe is he insane or is he like legit and so he either has big balls. I said, Lou Dorfman's office sent me down here, Like they did.
Speaker 2:In a sense, lou Dorfman was like the boss of bosses there and he goes really. And I said they sent me, that's how I got to you. And he's thinking oh, she thinks they were. Probably. He's thought bubble, they were just trying to get rid of you, but you're trying to use that to ingratiate yourself to me. And so I said I know you're looking for our director. She goes oh, john, why don't you do this? I said why don't you come in and bring your portfolio and show it to my director of production, janice? And so I. So I said oh yeah, of course I'll do that. He says why don't you come in tomorrow at about seven?
Speaker 2:I never get up at seven o'clock in the morning because I wasn't. I was working as a taxi driver. I was going to bed at four o'clock when. It was just crazy, I had a terrible schedule and so I said fine, so I come in the next day and I meet Janice and she looks like she just got out of bed and I thought, oh no, this is not going to go well, she's like groping for her coffee on her desk and like I put my portfolio down, she was like just got out of bed. Oh no, no, this can't be the end of all of this.
Speaker 1:You got to let Janeski the coffee before coming. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so she flipped through my portfolio and my hair was just blowing, it was so fast. She goes there's nothing in up. There was like I've got to get rid of this guy. So she said I'll tell you what I said. She said I didn't even have a portfolio, I just had drawings. I didn't have a portfolio. It was I don't know.
Speaker 2:She took pity on me and so she said okay, you can come in tomorrow and we'll give knew nothing. She says here's two ads that need to be done for TV Guide or something like that and so, and they need to be done in a week. And so, matt, I swear to you, at 12 o'clock at night, the CBS building was dark, except for one light up on the 26th floor, and that was me trying to figure out something that ultimately took me like 10 minutes to do, took me 10 hours to do, and she would come in and look over my shoulder during the day. But if you put this in the knife here and you and to move the type over here, you won't have to like, you won't have to color it in because it's dark paper already.
Speaker 1:I'm going to help you very valuable information.
Speaker 2:But like this is absolutely. It's less than 101, it's like 99. It's designed 50 even. And so the week goes by and I couldn't sleep because my neck was so stiff. I was so every night I was up there trying to make it happen. I felt like a dead man walking. When I walked to her office to show her the work, I really felt like I was walking to the gas chamber. I thought this is the end of my life. So I get in there. She looks at me, she goes. I'll tell you what. Why don't you come back next week? This was Friday, come back next week. And so I ended up being there for the next nine years and I became an art director.
Speaker 1:You did become an art director.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'd never met Lou Dorfman. But after I'd been there about a week I was down on 26th where his office was and I was in the men's room peeing at the stall. And so I'm just there at ping and some guy walks up and he starts ping and he and the guy just looked over and goes, hey, how are you doing? And I looked over and it was Lou Dorfman. You were peeing beside Lou and that's how I met Lou Dorfman. That's how I ultimately met Lou Dorfman. Anyway, that was my career at CBS, so I hope that wasn't too long winded.
Speaker 1:No, I think it's important for people to hear that To To me, that's a hell of a story of persistence, right Not?
Speaker 2:checking no for an answer. And it served me well because many years forward I had my own design firm and not only was I creative director but I was also responsible for sales and I obviously had people saying to me like John, I've never had people that are more persistent than you, but do it in such a nice way that I really want more of it. Because they usually want to say, kent Loss, don't bother me anymore. But I just had a manner, a way of doing it nicely and people would accept it. But you have to know that people, just because you're trying to sell something and people don't maybe don't necessarily need it at that moment. So you have to remember that you have to make a good impression and stay with that, because they might have another vendor or they might have a boss that is controlling their things.
Speaker 2:But if they remember you nicely, I can't tell you how many times people called me up a year later saying John, you know what I can work with you now. I couldn't work with you back then because of all these things and so my persistence at CBS. You should never burn a bridge. If you're in sales, you never huff out and you never go. Oh, I can't work with those people because you never know why at that moment you're not working with them, because at least more than half the time, people came back to me and said I'm ready to work with you now, I'd like you and I couldn't do it before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I say it all the time, I know you and I've talked about it a little bit, especially in the furniture business. It was definitely a relationship business.
Speaker 2:And all this is a relationship business.
Speaker 1:No question in my mind. My strongest asset personally is building long term relationships and you're good at it. I have people that friends and stuff and they tell me, man, you're such a great salesman, all this stuff and I'm like I still, to this day, years later, I make incredible money in the furniture business and other things. I still, to this day, don't see myself as a salesman. I see myself as a long-term relationship builder Absolutely. Matt Builds relationships and then people end up buying from me.
Speaker 2:It's part of your magic. This is part of your magic. People like you immediately because you focus on them.
Speaker 1:I focus on the friendship. I'm not even in the furniture business. I think, when I look back on it again, I was thinking about this.
Speaker 2:You're not trying to position yourself you really care about? Do I like this person? Do we have something that is worth building on?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think for me it just is a little bit annoying that I know that I'm a genuine person and I'm trying to build a relationship and build trust with this specific person and in the beginning they don't want anything to do with me. So for me it's a little bit. It bothers me that they don't want anything to do with me first and then secondly, it's a game. It becomes a game like look, you don't want to talk to me today, but six months from now, and so you just keep that going, and then eventually those people just end up buying from you.
Speaker 2:You're not selling any, I call it, I like to call it, I term it for myself is I like to find the door into you. So where yeah, maybe you're closed right now, but there might be there's some way that we are going, there's some way that we're going to connect because we're both reasonable people, we're both nice people. We don't need each other right now, but I know that as human beings we have some. There's some connection that we have, and everybody's different, but there are similarities and I want to find that. I find that fascinating.
Speaker 1:I still talk to old people or old customers in the furniture business all the time. I've been out of that business since 2016, eight years I can pick up the phone and call my old class on a dime, and then some of them call me yeah.
Speaker 2:And no, I think.
Speaker 1:I'm not in the sales game. I think that the word sales can have a negative connotation, but if it's done correctly, it's probably the most beautiful.
Speaker 2:Well, you're providing something that people need. It's not to say that nobody in the world needs furniture and you have to force on basically everybody in the world needs furniture. That in the world needs furniture and you have to force on basically everybody in the world needs furniture and they have that you probably have a product that's absolutely perfect for them.
Speaker 1:You just have to find where their connection is. That's right. So yeah, we're definitely similar in that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love sales. I started a design firm my first design firm with two people from CBS after I left and we got up to we left, we rented a little space in New York city and we all got up there and we set up the studio and we said, okay, where's the work coming from? And one of my partners said, oh, I'm not going out there. And I said what? And my other partner goes no, just give me the work, put it like, put it in a slot and let me do the work. And I'm looking at these people going wait, we spent whatever money we had, we set up an office and who's going to go out and get the work? We have nothing if we don't have that. And so I just I was terrified. I realized at that moment, oh my God, it's, either it's me or that, or we're out of business. And I went and did it and I remember I was terrified of meeting new people and I remember I used to have really sweaty palms and I would sit and I would go to meet with these directors of marketing and presidents of companies and stuff like that to talk to them about their marketing. And this time I did have a portfolio, because I had a beautiful portfolio of very elegant, beautiful CBS samples and other things that I had done freelance.
Speaker 2:But I remember I was so nervous to be on my own and I was realizing all the time that if I didn't bring in the work, my company was out of business. And what would I do? And I remember I was so nervous that I had this thing going where I would sit in the lobby, and when I would see the shadow of the person coming out from the elevator bank I would wipe my hands on my pants or my socks quickly because I was like a waterfall of nervousness and I would stick my hand out so quickly and shake their hand and then pull it back, because if it sat there for a second and a half it would be like, excuse me, it would be like a sponge. And so that's how I started and somebody gave me a really good piece of advice that somebody else might be able to benefit from when I was like very young and one guy I guess they all sensed it, because the people I was calling on people I was calling at the time these were high professionals 45, 50, 60, 70 years old.
Speaker 2:These are people who had been in business in New York for a long time and one guy goes. He goes John, don't worry about it, your work is really good and you shouldn't be nervous about it. I'm thinking am I nervous? Do I look nervous? I'm probably like probably terrified in front of him. Am I nervous? Do I look nervous? I'm probably like probably terrified in front of him. And he goes frankly, don't try to hide your inexperience or anything like that. He said in a way it's charming because it's it's honest and people know that you're not trying to like fool them in any way. He said it can be something that people want to help you and in that case you understand what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2:I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to be on your level like a 60 year old vice president of marketing of a company, because I'm thinking I'm trying to do that and they're looking at me like this is a kid, but he's smart and he's sincere and he has nice work and he's and you know what, when that person said it to me, I just let it all relax and it was one of the best things that ever happened to me in my life, because I would go up and I would not try to be something that I'm not For sure.
Speaker 1:And I have a great story about that too. It's in some way similar. When I got into the furniture business by the way, I knew nothing about furniture this guy literally called me on the phone. He told me what he'd pay me and he said the only territory that I have open is Minneapolis. And in my mind I'm like Minneapolis, I don't want to go to Minneapolis, it's cold up there, man. But I was like all right, this sounds like something I'd like to do. Right, You're really independent, you can make your own schedule, you can do whatever the hell you want, as long as you're selling something. And he calls me up. He's living in St Louis.
Speaker 1:At the time he was the sales manager in the Midwest and we had a mutual friend friend and he says to me where do you live? I need to come interview you. And I'm like I live in West Virginia. And he goes no, I ain't coming to fucking West Virginia, dude, I'll be in Tupelo Mississippi in two weeks. Meet me in Tupelo Mississippi. And I'm like he was like looking at West Virginia, I ain't going to that shithole, you can meet me. That's what he was thinking. That was like the attitude he gave me. Really yeah, because he had never really been there, right, Okay, he didn't know. Virginia's a beautiful state. West Virginia's beautiful, great people, Everything's great. But that's the attitude that he gave me, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2:I'm going to West.
Speaker 1:Virginia, right, you're going to come to Tupelo Mississippi. Okay, I don't know if you.
Speaker 2:Right, I got to go and he wants to see that you get up and get yourself dressed up and drive out to see him. That's your interview right there.
Speaker 1:Exactly so I was like 20, you know, 22 years old, and went, loaded up my car in West Virginia at the time and I told my mom I said I'm going to Tupelo, mississippi. She said for what? And I was like a job interview. Wow, interview. It was like 14 or 16 hours in Tupelo's miserable zone. But I was so excited to go down there and interview and I thought we'll go to Tupelo, mississippi and I get down there and it was no nicer than where I grew up in West Virginia, but nonetheless I roll up and I'm in a suit, like in my suit.
Speaker 1:I roll in and this dude's in a plain white t-shirt that he looked like he just got it out of a I don't know. It was all. He just got it out of the bag Jeans and a white t-shirt and sneakers on, was he much older than you were. No, he was. Yeah, he was probably about 32 or 34.
Speaker 2:Okay, so 10 or 12 years older than you, but he was real established this guy was hands down, one of the best. He actually didn't even have to dress up, he just had his, he had I. I always heard that person doesn't even have a business card. So this is the same kind of thing People have worked hard, they've established themselves and people come to them at that point.
Speaker 1:Exactly, he had a great reputation. I'm going to come up under this guy. We're the best salesman I've ever met, great guy. But he says I got a job in Minneapolis for you and a really terrible salary that he gave me to go out there. It was really, god awful. Hey, it was just that. I said, yeah, I didn't have anything else. It was either zero or that. So I drive back to Western Jews 14 hours. He didn't even give me the job on the spot. By the way. Yeah, if he's listening, dick, I know him really well, so I'll say that anyway. So, yeah, he doesn't give. He calls me on the phone. He's like yeah, I guess if you're willing to drive all the way to Mississippi, you can have the job. And so then I had to pack my bags and go to Minneapolis, minnesota. I was a teenager, 24. It was all the way out.
Speaker 2:That's serious road work.
Speaker 1:All the way out to Minneapolis and work three years out there, but nonetheless he sends me this big, huge deck of photos, Big lithos. I knew nothing about furniture and I said what am I going to do with these? There's four or five hundred lithos Like product pictures Big, huge, yeah, product photos.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Lithographic, massive glossy photos. And I'm like what am I going to do with all this Big stack of photos? And he says I'm going to give you the top five in each category. Don't worry about the rest, Throw them in the back of your car, Just take these five in every category. The product, these five products, Okay, Bedroom category. Living room category all these different categories.
Speaker 1:I'll give you the top five sellers in every category In the beginning. You're just going to go in. These are the five in each category you're going to concentrate on. Don't pull any other pictures out until everyone's buying those. I was like I got this wind train and so I go to Redwood Falls, minnesota, which is like two hours or three hours outside of Minneapolis, I can't remember to this guy that had this beautiful store. He was like the number one guy in Redwood Falls Minnesota and I walk in. We had this bedroom suit that was black and cherry wood and then the inside of the headboard and the footboard they had cherry wood with these headlights, these lights in the headboard and shine on it and pop really nicely. But I'd seen cherry wood in the past, didn't really understand it or know what it was, but this was like orange.
Speaker 1:It was like the worst looking cherry wood that I've ever seen in my life. It was like I didn't know it was cherry. So I'm sitting down the presentation with this guy. It was like 60 years old, I'm 22. I'm trying to come up with a pitch for this product, and I'm like man when you tell me about this group man, it's just one of our best sellers.
Speaker 1:Hands down last six months it's been the best seller. I'm like those lights in the headboard and look, when you turn the lights on, the orange in the headboard just pops. It's really beautiful Something like that he looks at me and he goes.
Speaker 1:Matt, he goes. I trust you and I do believe that this is one of your best bedroom suits, because I happen to know that this will definitely sell in my store. But I'm going to do you this huge favor. I can't wait, the orange in the headboard is cherry wood, and once you leave my store, I don't want you to tell anyone else that this is orange, because there's no way you're going to say I want it.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's interesting. It's funny when you were telling me to start seeing like orange. Like orange is such a specific color. That's something you either love or hate. Most people are not going to like the idea of orange in their bedroom. This was the worst looking thing.
Speaker 1:I've ever seen. How brilliant. We sold so many of them. But it had this big orange. It looked like a pumpkin. It was awful.
Speaker 2:But it sold so many. Yeah, you could have said something like it brings out the natural grain in the cherry wood which illuminates the bedroom in a beautiful way and I probably did figure that out a month later. That. What a nice guy. Yeah, did he end up buying from you? Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:He bought it and he ordered it every, every week, every month. He sold the heck out. What a great story. But he's like don't ever tell anyone else that this is an orange.
Speaker 2:So he felt sorry for me and bought from me. Anyway, I love your story because I just think people need to just cross the line and get out there and put themselves out. It's like a lot of people are like afraid to take that step because they feel they're going to get squashed by experience or power or something like that. That's like my CBS story that the guy saw you as somebody who was earnest about what you were doing and he said I like you, I'm going to buy from this guy and I'm going to help him, you know, get to the next level with the sales.
Speaker 1:I think it's a great story. And he did yeah, it was good, but it was just definitely him lending a hand and saying. I know that a lot of people would have just said laughed at me and never bought it Cause I'm not buying this. Well, I don't think it's about them.
Speaker 2:I think it's about you. I think it's, maybe it's our personality that we can connect. We have some way to connect with people, because I don't know why, because I really I don't know I think it's authenticity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, yeah, that's it, that's it. That's the only answer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not trying to jerk you around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's authenticity.
Speaker 2:I'm not coming in thinking I'm, I'm better than you or I know better, or something like that. I'm just, I'm here to do the job and yeah, great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm love to talk about it, because moving to South America was a really great decision for me. I had a very happy and successful business in the United States, a marketing and strategic branding firm, and we were very well known for the quality of our work. But we had very important clients and it's very stressful work. It's very gratifying, but there's no error. There's no room for error. You don't make a mistake. You don't deliver a branding platform or a series of marketing materials that has any possibility of failing. It's just one of those things. It just doesn't happen.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of pressure to do it well and do it right. I'm sorry, not well, it wasn't good enough. It has to be 100% right, because a lot of our clients are spending millions of dollars building brands, building products, building brands for those products and communicating those products and services to people all over the world, and you have to understand the we. It was just enough, we had enough. We were at a point where we could consider moving on and I didn't. I wasn't ready to move on because I had my identity wrapped up in that business.
Speaker 2:And I thought if I don't have this business, I have nothing. It's just a. It's an emotional nightmare for me at the time, Almost like you didn't even exist. That's exactly what I was feeling. I thought it'd be dangling in space and my partner was ready to go and my partner was nice. I talked to my partner about this.
Speaker 2:It was nice enough to say, okay, well, I'll do it for another year. I thought, okay, I've got a year to get my brain straight on this and I thought it was a very generous thing for this person to do because they were ready to go. And so we did it. And time came and I did it. We did it. We closed the business. We couldn't sell the business because we were the business. We had great client list, we had great employees, we had a beautiful office and everything we had renovated a beautiful mid-century building and put the most beautiful furniture.
Speaker 1:So the business essentially has no value without you. It doesn't really, so you couldn't sell it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Everybody said why don't you sell your business? And I floated that with a couple of my clients they go, who's coming to the meetings? We'll go home. Whoops, We'll have somebody to go, John, it's not. That's not gonna work for us. And so, anyway, fast forward. We closed the business. I was sitting there thinking what am I going to do with the rest of my life? And I had this thing where I think that you start in a place and as a young person, you go out, you do a lot of testing and you go places and you do things that at some point you'd want to go back to your roots in a way. And I did grow up and I did have that South American history. And I grew up in Florida where there were a lot of South Americans, Not like it is today. There were a lot of South Americans, but today it's Latino. It's like Miami is really the capital of South America now.
Speaker 2:But in those days it wasn't, but there were plenty of Latinos living there because it was so close and my parents, friends and workmates and stuff like that were all Latinos and because my father was in charge of the Latin American division, Pan American World Airways. So those people were coming in now and I just remembered having those connections. I remember those people. I remember how much I liked them and how fun they were and they had names like Mario Martinez and Pepe Proenza. Those are actual people and they'd come over for parties and they knew how to. They knew how to have a good time. They weren't sitting around, they were dancing and conga lines and they were doing stuff like that and I thought feels about right and so, and through a series of events, I decided to go to Colombia, which is where we are now.
Speaker 2:And I thought I guess I wanted to jump ship, primarily because I was really tired of the corporatocracy. I felt like the corporations in the United States had like their hands at every one of my pockets, gouging out every penny they could, and I also didn't really like the sense of governmental oversight in my life. For instance, a small example, and you may or may not agree with this, but I recognize the value of wearing a seatbelt while you're in a car. But I don't really want somebody to tell me you have to put on a seatbelt or you're going to get a ticket. You're going to cost you $200 if you don't put on that seatbelt. I'm not okay with that. I'm just not okay with that. Those kinds of laws and if you start to look around, those laws are everywhere in the United States and it starts to feel less like a country and more like one huge corporation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think I heard something the other day. This guy said and he's an American guy he said it's the land of the free, but we have more people in jail than anywhere else in the world. That's a fact. Anywhere else in the world. That's a fact, and it is for stupid stuff, right? Yeah, I get it. If somebody's murdering you, if somebody's doing a serious crime, absolutely stick them in jail. I'm all about that, yeah, but you have guys in jail.
Speaker 2:They're in jail right now For having one marijuana cigarette, which, of course, is legal now. And they had a marijuana cigarette 30 years ago and they're still in things that I know when I'm back in the States. I want to say that honestly. I have just people who don't know about Columbia or other places. I feel I have more liberty here than I ever did there.
Speaker 1:I can do?
Speaker 2:I feel like I can do any, as long as I'm not hurting anybody or giving anybody a problem of any sort, everyone stays out of your way, everybody stays out of your way, and it's a great sense of liberty.
Speaker 2:And I'll tell you the honest truth All of my life I've been hearing like people ask another person are you happy? And people going yeah, I'm happy. I wonder why somebody's happy. Maybe because they got like a Porsche or they bought like a really expensive handbag, you know. And then when the glow of that work wears off, what do you do? Do you get like a new Porsche or like an Armani suit or something like? That 30 days later do you yeah because, it's still valid.
Speaker 2:But I remember being here a number of years ago, sitting on my balcony overlooking this beautiful city, and I almost cried. I thought you know, for the first time I can honestly say to myself I am happy and I am. I'm not like manufacturing that thought and just applying that label to me. I am, am actually happy. I'd never experienced that in my life and there I experienced it here and I thought, wow, that is like a kick in the head Basically. Why didn't I feel that before?
Speaker 2:But you look back on the United States. I don't want to put it down because I love the country. It was extremely good to me. I love everybody there, I love it, I go back and my family's there and all of that. But I feel like I have gone to a higher level of existence here. This is not perfect. There are many problems here that people aren't on time. It just goes on and on. You have to really reorder your life. But I don't feel like I'm on the hamster wheel like I was in the United States. Believe me, the hamster wheel was good to me. I liked it. The hamster wheel was good.
Speaker 2:I'm a hard worker. I love getting up in the morning, going to work and accomplishing things, but that's the MO of the culture in the United States. It's like you produce until the day you die, and then who's going to take your place? Oh, my God, you want to take two weeks off together. Oh, can you just take one week now and then take another week in the fall? Oh, what am I going to do? Sit at home and re-sod my lawn, or something like that, anyway, yeah. So when I took a look here, there were certain things. I didn't know a lot of these things, but I did do a financial analysis and I thought my money's going to go further there. Let me give it a try.
Speaker 1:You told me a story about you. You did all these spreadsheets because I know this is your analytical about these things, especially finances. I could have been an accountant but you did all these spreadsheets and spreadsheets like worried about coming here Down to the detail, I knew what it cost to take a bus. Yeah, I knew what it cost and you've probably never taken a bus since you've been here?
Speaker 2:I have not. I honestly have never For some reason you should, but I had to know. I had to know what. Like the financial.
Speaker 1:I need to know, Well, I know what the financial no it's.
Speaker 2:I wanted to find out what the financial landscape is here. I needed the best I could put myself into it. So, yeah, I did do intensive spreadsheets. The bus now is going up. It's really.
Speaker 1:Everything's gone up Around.
Speaker 2:The pandemic has caused prices to go up. But yeah, ago, when you came, it was probably 35, so are you asking me what? Where I went from my spreadsheets is that?
Speaker 1:what you're asking? No, I'm. I'm because I remember you telling me a story one night about you doing. You spent copious months or weeks doing these copious spreadsheets. I love working with excel I correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe what you told me was you had this all figured out and you're like, okay, now I can make some moves. And then you landed here and you're like, oh my, my God, I was off. You had guessed high.
Speaker 2:Yeah, almost that, matt. There's a little program that I really like. It's an application. What is it called? I think it's called MoneyBook and it's made in Germany. You can get it on the iPhone, I think you can also get it on Android, and I would get here and I would literally make a note of every single thing that I bought.
Speaker 2:If I bought a bottle of sparkling water or something, everything would go in there and it would give you, like that, information that you could look at. It gave you charts and graphs and bar charts and line graphs of your spending and you could put it. You choose categories for home, for eating, transportation, all these things, and so I did that for a long time and I just arrived to the point where, like, oh my god, it's like, why am I doing this? It what I thought would be my financial structure world here is not even though I had the numbers and it seemed like I was going to make it, but not easily make it. For some reason, I made it so much better and I wasn't even trying.
Speaker 2:So it was 10, 15% less than, or maybe less than what you it was 20% less and I had everything. I thought I had it. Just as interesting, because I thought I had everything programmed exactly. So where was it even cheaper? I don't know. I don't know. It's like a cab ride here to most places is like $2. And so was I overestimating cabs or food in the grocery store when I first came here, for a hundred thousand pesos, which is 20 bucks.
Speaker 2:Right now it is. It was. You're walking out with two huge grocery bags. That's not the same. You're walking out with one grocery bag now, but it's still cheap. Yeah, but so somehow, in a way that I thought I was doing such a careful analysis, it wasn't good enough, but it was definitely in my favor. It wasn't to my detriment. I didn't get here and say, oh my God, it's more expensive than I thought. It was just the opposite.
Speaker 1:So from a business perspective, I know that and I know you're retired in the States. You told me that. And one thing have you done any business down here? I know a lot about the business landscape here. What are your opinions About doing business?
Speaker 2:here, yeah, about doing business here?
Speaker 1:Have you invested here? No, You've done some consulting kind of freelance.
Speaker 2:I still like to work with clients. I still like to help them with their branding. It's something I really enjoy doing, I'm good at. But I think one thing that you have to understand at least let me say it for me that when you come from your culture to another culture, you become an outsider. You're, as they say here, extranjero. You're from another culture in another place, and if you go to set up a business here, you're doing it in their culture all of a sudden. And I don't think there's any way that you can understand the nuances of a whole nother culture. It may look the same, it's oh, we want to. I want to open a bar or restaurant or something. They have tables, napkins, drinks and food, but the sub, the substructure behind that is nothing you would ever be able to understand, maybe in a lifetime.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm not a proponent of that. The USA is the money machine, absolutely. If you want to live outside the USA and you still want to make money, find a way to make money Remotely, where there are people that know your type of person, their culture, because it's always going to be, in my opinion, the best route to take. Take. If you start to depend on, uh, people say, for instance, here or another place, they're probably looking to take advantage of you because they know, you know, and whether they're scheming or not, they know that you're from another place and you're not going to be able to understand their nuances. So they're, they might just be predisposed to take from you. Yeah, yeah, in a way, you don't know, in a way that it's.
Speaker 1:I just I don't recommend it yeah, I, I think you know as an investor and I've had a couple of investors on the show that they've done well here I personally just don't understand. I think this is a place that you'll live happier if you set yourself up, like you said, in your home country and then you come here and just enjoy things. Right. This is a fun place. It's a nice place to greet people. Why stretch yourself out here?
Speaker 2:One of the things that we've talked about, which I think is very valid, is like there, because this is considered the third world, but there are really exciting people and businesses here that would love to market products in the United States because that's the market. They have no way to do that, they have no vision of how to do that and if they tried, they would probably fail miserably because their culture is so different. So there are many opportunities within that paradigm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think probably you're right. Probably one of the way, the easiest ways to come up with a business and in Latin America, is to find something here that we don't have at home or don't have as well as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as well well, but in terms of starting a restaurant or a bar or something like that, I don't know about that I've never seen anyone win in columbia by doing that.
Speaker 1:Really, you do have some guys. There's some americans here, that beautiful restaurant, but you talk to them and they're working 60, 70, 80 hours a week and they're bringing in 1500 a month, you're like yeah, yeah, yeah, the money thing, it just isn't the same. It doesn't add up I know that for a fact.
Speaker 2:I agree with you.
Speaker 1:For me, it's even the real estate thing. In many ways, I don't like bringing it up because I just have so many friends who have invested in real estate here, but it just so happens that I've spent a lot of my life studying investments over the years. Read all the best investors in the States or the world over the years and for me, if you want to come down to wherever Medellin, colombia and you want to buy a lifestyle investment and spend $253,000, $400,000, whatever it is on a lifestyle investment, what do you mean?
Speaker 2:Lifestyle meaning hey, it's a place to go have a good time Right.
Speaker 1:Oh, if you wanted to. If you're living in Kansas random example. But if you're living in Kansas and you're like, hey, I want to a beach place in Cancun, that's cool Right.
Speaker 2:Buy, you buy a beach place in.
Speaker 1:Of course, if you're not there, why not rent it and make some money? But what I'm saying is I would personally look at that as a lifestyle investment, meaning I'm going to buy that place to have in Cancun just for fun, for me to be able to go whenever I want, and then, yeah, maybe I rent it, maybe I don't. The investment that's going to change my life, because personally I know people that have many investments in Medellin and to me it just doesn't make sense. Man, if you're buying that lifestyle investment just to have fun, great, but if you're buying four or five, six real estate places, here.
Speaker 2:it's just, it depends on how much money you have. Yeah, that's right, that's right. If you just have enough money to live, come to a place like this on a decent social security and you can live very nicely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's another thing I want to do.
Speaker 2:But if you want to, if you can't sit still, basically, and you got to create a little chaos in your life, you have out. Maintaining real estate is no easier here than it is in the United States. The things that you need to do and buy for it may be cheaper, but managing the people that are going to do it for you is three times harder. What do you want on your life?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think yeah, and you would. If you're back there, you would say I can just turn it over to a management company and I think you can do that here but you're still going to have a set of problems that maybe you don't want to have.
Speaker 2:No, I agree, there isn't the same level of responsibility here. It just doesn't work out.
Speaker 1:No, I agree. So in your opinion. I know you've hit on some of them, but if you were to highlight the top four or five things that make Medellin a special place to live, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So many. Let's put it this way. I think that is like a misleading question, in the sense that you hear that kind of question a lot, but not divorced from that question is what's the downside? Because they literally go hand in hand. So let's just talk about it like from that point of view. Because you can go on YouTube, there are a lot of videos about like why it's so great to be in a place, but they completely leave off the other part of it. And you think, because you're applying those like five or six benefits to your life in the United States, because you live in the United States and you understand the entire culture within which those benefits exist, and you think, oh yeah, okay, great, so I don't have those here, I'll find them there. But when you get there, wherever there is, there are things that, like I had no idea how complicated such and such is. So let's go back to your question. Your question is what are the benefits?
Speaker 2:The weather here is remarkable. I am not somebody who likes winter. As a matter of fact, I was in the United States a week ago. It was. It was 15 degrees and when I tell cab drivers here there was minus five degrees centigrade, they cap they minus five degrees centigrade. They practically pass out. They can't even consider that, they can't even, they don't understand everything that's frozen everything buildings, everything.
Speaker 2:So anyway. So the weather's great here. Highs usually of 82, 83 in a day they're like crazy to think it's so hot here and then at night it gets down to like about 65. It's that same way every single day. It rains almost every single afternoon for an hour. So if you're leaving the house after two o'clock you take a little umbrella with you because you're going to need it. You're going to duck into a cafe, you're going to have a coffee or you're going to have a soda or something like that, or maybe a little dessert, and by the time you're done, rain is over. You go home that night. It usually rains in the evening again about eight or nine o'clock. Weather great.
Speaker 2:Can't say enough about the cost of living, because even on a modest social security a person can live nicely here and there are a lot of foreigners who live here, who have come here specifically because they do not have enough money to live in the United States. They cannot retire. There are a lot of people who, when here specifically because they do not have enough money to live in the United States. They cannot retire.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of people who, when they retire, they don't have enough money to do anything but sit at home and wait out their days. And then they come here and they're not only living a better life than they've lived for 30 years, but they're saving some of what they have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but there are people here who are just making it. I know there are people from the United States here where they're like three guys living together in an apartment who have $700 a month social security and they're pooling their money together and in a certain way, they're better off here. Yeah, because going to the grocery store is cheaper. If you have to take a cab, that's on the lowest end of the scale and they do hopefully have a better life. But if you have more than that to spend, you can have a maid easily.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You have people doing all kinds of things for you, recognizing I don't want to sound snobby, but they recognize that you have a status and they go out of their way to be nice to you. And that's not something you get easily. In the United States you don't get it at all. It's an egalitarian society. But here this is more of a colonial culture where you know if somebody has a house and a car, they perceive you to be more wealthy than they are. They defer to you, and I don't really like that, but it's a fact that happens. So there's that your money goes further. I don't know what do you think? Those are the two big benefits for me.
Speaker 1:I know one thing that we both have agreed on is for sure the healthcare systems. Oh yes, do you see?
Speaker 2:these spots all over me here.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah you know what this is.
Speaker 2:I went to. I had this. I was in the United States and these are sun damage things. I went to, I came down here and I went to have my teeth clean because of fantastic dentist here and he'd clean my. I'll tell you in a second. He cleaned my teeth and he saw a deep cavity in there and he filled the cavity and the entire bill was $68.
Speaker 1:Cleaning out the cavity.
Speaker 2:And he did a great job. And I was telling him I have this rash that I got in a pool in the United States and it's not going away and I said I wanted to go see the dermatologist. I asked the dermatologist when I could see him. They said in August, which is this is what month is this? This is the end of January and I thought I'm not waiting.
Speaker 2:So I told my dentist about it. He goes, I'll call him up right away, cause he knew him. That's how I met the dermatologist in the first place Got me. I had an appointment the next day at eight 30 in the morning. This is not unusual here. I went to the dermatologist and I had gone to a dermatologist in Connecticut and they were like bumbling around trying to figure out what this was and it was just it was costing me a lot of money. They were giving me a lot of medications that just weren't doing anything. So this guy sat me down. He like took a biopsy. He said, no, we're taking a biopsy because this could be one of two things and they both look the same but they're both very different. Blah, blah, blah. And he said, while you're here, we're going to remove ahead and do it. So that's what they use liquid nitrogen, and the whole thing costs. The whole thing costs me a 325,000, which is what about 75, 85.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it got the and he's a he's like dermatologist to the stars here. So there's that having an operation next week on a little hernia in my from working out in the gym too hard and that's going to cost me like one-tenth of what it's going to cost me in the United States. And the surgeon who I have had dealings with before is one of the most well-known doctors here. And, as a matter of fact, my dermatologist said who's going to do your operation? I said his name. He said oh my God, that was one of my teachers. He said he's fabulous, no-transcript, they know. And so I said who's the pharmacist here? And this girl comes out like girls, she's a woman, but she was about 27 and she's really attractive looking person.
Speaker 2:I'm like is this a pharmacist? I told her what I had. She goes okay, I got it. She goes back and she gets me this little tube of stuff. She said three times per day. I said fine, so I took it back, problem solved.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't tell you how many times that I've had things go wrong and I just go to the pharmacy and then say, hey, here's what I got going on. They give you some medication for the next day you're good and it completely skipped the need to go see a doctor who's going to tell you the same exact thing I went to one doctor and I told him I didn't want to take any pills and he said, no, that's fine.
Speaker 2:And so he prescribed to me medical grade cannabis oil. It's not in our car, you don't get high from it or anything like that. They actually do use it to treat people who are addicted to marijuana, and what it does is it removes the urge, but it helps them come off of that. And so he gave me the name. I went out of the drugstore and I got it. It cost me $138,000. And I was talking to him about it subsequently because he was following my progress. He wanted the importer was I'm sorry, the importer was and he said that same bottle in the United States cost $1,500. And I paid $138, which is $30.
Speaker 1:Another thing that I indirectly hit on it, but one thing that I think is important. I know that we definitely share this thought, but are the conveniences of Columbia? You just mentioned it right? Thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, Thank you for bringing that up, rappi man. Very important.
Speaker 2:Things like that right. Talk to me about that.
Speaker 1:Go for it.
Speaker 2:Home delivery is an art form here. You can't even imagine if you haven't experienced it right. If you need cash, they'll bring you cash, for whatever reason even.
Speaker 1:It's hard to communicate how convenient these services are until you've experienced it for yourself. For a significant amount of time I was telling some friends back in the States about Rappi, which, when I'm in a country that doesn't have Rappi John, I'm like I know what the hell am I going to do? If it's 2 o'clock in the morning, you need an aspirin it's going to be there half an hour and it's called rappy and blah blah and I'm like we have uber eats, we have postmates and I'm like, yeah, nothing like it it doesn't touch it nothing like it yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've been out and I've needed money.
Speaker 2:I don't have my atm card because I don't carry all my cards with me and all of a sudden I need money.
Speaker 1:So hop on rappy app, order money and it brings it to wherever I am.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the convenience of this country with everything. I'm so glad you brought that up because that's really one of the great benefits.
Speaker 2:I don't know if other countries have the same level of service. Do you know about that? So Rappi's basically everywhere, throughout most of Latin.
Speaker 1:America, yeah, yeah, but I've never been anywhere where it's as convenient as Columbia. Somebody just told me the other day that it's a Brazilian company.
Speaker 2:No, is that a fact?
Speaker 1:That's what someone told me. I thought it was from.
Speaker 2:Cali, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:I also thought it was a Colombian company. Okay, but somebody corrected me the other day and said no, it's definitely a Brazilian company. How interesting. And if that's the case, they've really screwed it up in Brazil and Brazil it's super inconvenient. They don't have a whole lot of options and, as in Columbia, you just said it, they're. They're at your house in 10 minutes, depending on what you order and and you have access to.
Speaker 2:You actually put a clock on the application and it starts counting down from 12, from 12 minutes, and you can just see it kind of down and the people are always there within 12 minutes. If you, you can order like a head of broccoli and a six pack of beer and it's there in 12 minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and not only that, but again you can order anything you want. You have Rappi Fabor, I was Alejandro, actually the personal trainer at the gym.
Speaker 1:A few years back I was at his place playing volleyball. He has an outdoor volleyball court over there. We're all playing volleyball and we went down to the court and he put his car keys and his wallet in my backpack. I left early and accidentally took his stuff back with me to my house and he calls me up and says dude, you got my wallet and my keys with you, can you bring them back? And it was like a 25 minute ride out to his place or something like that and I just got on. Rappi Favore wrapped it up in a nice box. Rappi guy comes to my house and he picked up the package and take it.
Speaker 2:What did that cost you? Do you have any ideas?
Speaker 1:It was like it was insignificant, like totally.
Speaker 2:I don't know it was like 10,000.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was like 10 or 15,000 pesos for a bug. Yeah, your time and your gasoline. And it's certainly not worth me getting a cab going two ways. No, not at all Wasting my time.
Speaker 2:That's the thing point, because we have messenger services and stuff like that in the United States but they're not nearly as inexpensive as things are here. You can afford to do just things you just wouldn't consider. You would rather get in your car and drive 20 minutes and come back to return something like that, just because we're not programmed that way. But here you learn to reprogram yourself in a way that people are here to help you and they're happy to help you. The average Colombian makes a million two that's the legal, that's the legal salary here per month. So you give somebody if somebody has the opportunity to make, say, a couple of dollars for a quick thing, that's more. That's money for them, because they're happy to make maybe $25 in a day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a big number here, right, that's $25. Let me ask you where do you see yourself going in the future? Are you going to end up staying here?
Speaker 2:Matt, that's a great question. I really don't know. Again, coming to Columbia has given me a sense of personal freedom I didn't have before, and that's for many reasons. I'm away from family ties which never have been necessarily like ties in a sense, but I'm far away, so I don't have that like right next to me. I actually, I tell you one thing I have on the table here is where my family's located.
Speaker 2:It's a very beautiful place up in the Northeast and there's a farm out there and on the farm there's an outbuilding and one of the outbuildings is a really nice little apartment and so I and it has a garage and I actually and it's inexpensive, and I was actually thinking of having that as a base, maybe, and then just going up there and keeping my things there, but then spending a lot of my time in Latin America, because I don't think of the United States as fun for me anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I have to say that and I know that probably sounds really harsh, but I've been living in that culture forever, and one of the great things about being here is that you're confronted with new situations all the time and it really keeps your mind active, and I like having to speak another language. I like meeting new people. I don't want to. I would say personally that not being in a rut is really like my goal and I find if I were maybe back where I was before, I would look back into a rut and I would I feel like I would be wondering what are you going to do now? Yeah, and I don't really wonder about that so much here because, look, when I was, I've spent a number of years here and I did get into a rut and I learned through time and experiences that I don't want to be in a rut. So I have to make an effort to go other places, and going other places is not nearly as expensive here as it is in the United States.
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 2:So I can get on a plane and for $100 round trip I can go to another city. I could spend a couple of days there just walking around. If I want to look at the parks, maybe go to a museum, meet somebody, or if I want to go to, I'd love to explore Brazil. You've spent a lot of time. I'd love to go see Brazil. I went to Argentina last year. That was pretty interesting. There are many places to go, so I'm in a place in the world which is unexplored for me, and so, to answer your question, it makes sense for me to either either I'll either I'll put down roots here or I'll take advantage of that, that that situation in the United States, which I haven't really committed to yet, I don't know. I don't know, man.
Speaker 2:The good thing is man, you're retired and you don't have to know that's right and do whatever the hell you want. You have to remember that it's like when you're working and you're working life you're always planning ahead because you have to, and that's fine. I believe in planning ahead, not worrying ahead. But when you reach my status here, every day is its own thing. But I can choose to do today what I want to do and if I can appreciate my surroundings and what I have and what I don't have, and tomorrow I'll do something else.
Speaker 1:That said man. I think this has been absolutely incredible.
Speaker 2:I sincerely appreciate you. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks so much. I think um you added so much value to my listeners today and anyone interested in in moving abroad. Thanks so much, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:And jump off the ship and go out and take a swim in some new waters.
Speaker 1:Buy a flight, man.
Speaker 2:I figured out from that, right, yeah, you're going to find some new things and if you're just starting that first business in New York, I had to get out and ultimately I learned all these things. I left the United States and I learned a lot of new things. I would say stay out of that rut, go out and test yourself a little bit. You can do things that you don't think you can even do.
Speaker 1:That's right. Whatever it is you decide to do, man enjoy it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll be in touch. We'll be in touch. Okay, look forward to it. Appreciate it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Matt Chambers Connects. Stay tuned for where we'll dive deeper into these two fascinating worlds. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe to our YouTube channel, Matt Chambers Connects. You can also find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music and many other major podcast platforms, so you don't miss a show. Also, please join us on our social media channels so you can connect with other listeners and ask your most pressing questions and also tell us what types of guests you'd like to see on the show. Thanks again, and I'll see you next time.