Episode 3 returns to the freight world with one of the industry's most productive and entertaining entrepreneurs, Kevin Nolan. From Nolan Transportation Group to OTR Solutions, Kevin's built and sold some of the marquee names in the industries. Speaking of marquee, Kevin's not done yet and is now working on two more startups, Marquee Insurance and GoPayhawk.
Thanks again to your our sponsor, GoPayhawk (https://gopayhawk.com/). Stop overpaying and start thriving with GoPayhawk's payment process solutions. Visit GoPayhawk.com today and use code TLS24 to learn more about receiving a $250 credit on your payment processing solutions.
Episode 3 returns to the freight world with one of the industry's most productive and entertaining entrepreneurs, Kevin Nolan. From Nolan Transportation Group to OTR Solutions, Kevin's built and sold some of the marquee names in the industries. Speaking of marquee, Kevin's not done yet and is now working on two more startups, Marquee Insurance and GoPayhawk.
Thanks again to your our sponsor, GoPayhawk (https://gopayhawk.com/). Stop overpaying and start thriving with GoPayhawk's payment process solutions. Visit GoPayhawk.com today and use code TLS24 to learn more about receiving a $250 credit on your payment processing solutions.
Welcome to episode three of the last sale. We're moving right along. This is a good one, kevin, especially because I was in a conversation with two Kevin's on this one. It was me and Kevin squared.
Speaker 2:It was Kevin's all over the place, but the one only Kevin Nolan. I joined us for this episode talking about his career in sales, freight brokerage and then factoring and now payments coming up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. I immediately thought of the scene from home alone, where the mom Suddenly realizes that she left Kevin at home. She was Kevin. You know I was. That was just playing in my mind over and over during the whole episode. But no, it was a great conversation and it was cool to hear about selling a company that has your name attached to it.
Speaker 2:You know, and Not everybody gets to do that and that's got to be a weird feeling and I was fun to explore with Kevin Kevin Nolan that it's yeah, I think you have to be a hustler to be able to do that and Kevin Nolan is a hustler and in his last sell and his answer to that Really brings it home. I think I really appreciated that answer Because we think about the big. You know it's gonna be some big sell, but maybe it's just going back to the roots and doing one last fight, and one for the hell of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it kind of gets to. You know, even for somebody who has as driven as Kevin and Money-hungry you might say who's built a little empire still wanted to go back to a last sale that Doesn't necessarily have the most monetary value but maybe has quite a lot of a Different type of value.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a fascinating conversation and went a lot of different directions or a lot of surprises, but yeah, always, always good to chat with him and it's, you know, it's exciting to talk about his different adventures, his new ventures, payment processing, and it just so happens that he is the last sale Podcast sponsor number one. Here we are in episode three. So payhawk, you know it's, it's exciting.
Speaker 2:It is exciting as a payment processing system for for businesses of all sizes, all industries, but but for a brokerage as well, right so, being able to to process payments in a very efficient, cost-effective way. He's going after that market and there's a lot of use cases for Collecting payments from, from your customers. You know getting it today because, as we discussed and Kevin pointed out, is that a sell is not final Until you collect the money, and that's a theme that they were talking about today as well. So Don't let outdated payment systems hold you back. Go payhawk. Empowers you to focus on what you do best run your business while they handle the rest collecting that money, making those sales. Final visit go payhawkcom today. Use code TLX 24 to get a free console Consolation plus a $250 credit on your first payments over the first 90 days go check it out, see how they can pay, save you some money and help streamline your operation.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, happy to have them on board as a sponsor. Super cool conversation. I hope you all enjoy it. Enjoy the conversation and let us know what you like. Let us know what you didn't like. That might be helpful too, and Look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Enjoy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so sales. Sales for me started probably when when I was playing sports and we had to raise money for the teams. So whether it was Eminem box sales or Program ad sales, whatever it was, I mean I even had a young age said, look, I want my team or my group or whatever we're doing to win. So we would, we would get as many boxes of Eminem's as we could. We would stand on the corners On Johnson's Ferry Road, roswell Road in Atlanta, shake those Eminem's and people's windows and we would. We would come back because the coaches Look, you know, to their credit I always say great coaches would make great sales leaders and they would give us what they called lawn chairs and lemonade's at football camp.
Speaker 3:So if you sold the most boxes of Eminem's, you got to watch everybody else run during morning, running up Lawn chairs and drink lemonade if you sold the most. So don't think I didn't love sitting there razzin my teammates. Right, we're doing that. So that's where sales started for me. So I'm excited to talk about the stuff that you guys sent over and and get into this.
Speaker 2:Appreciate coming on the show. There's a couple questions I have for you. One's your t-shirt, iba dog.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he would die. Why we need? We need more of it when everybody needs more of it, especially in the freight game right now. But my daughters.
Speaker 3:And my wife gave me this for for Christmas. I, you know, they hear me say it, they've. Actually, when we went down to Florida one time and we were walking around the docks and everything else, there was a boat there that somebody named it, that which, so you know it's important. It stands for earnings before interests, tax depreciation and amortization. So businesses, a lot, are valued on Iba da multiples. So Iba da or there's an old school way I used to say it of Iba da, those Some of the guys, that girls that know me. You know they'll be like Kevin, that's a really old school the way you're saying that.
Speaker 2:So and that goes back to what we were saying right before I hit record, and that is the cell is not done Until you get the money.
Speaker 3:Right, right, and that's actually the. The most important part of the sales process is getting paid Right and getting paid in a manner that doesn't come across as Jerky or obnoxious and and that'll make them want to come back again. Right, and I think a lot of people know that during my non-compete days I worked at Waffle House and and, and the one thing about Waffle House is they. They said get the check out quick. Right, not only will you turn the table fast and get somebody else in that real estate, that'll make money, but nobody wants to wait around for a check because it's the last thing you remember. Right, the last touch point in a sale is usually the payment Right, and so you want to make sure that payment is is is clean and is, you know, not offensive, but also like you got to get paid, sometimes in a collection standpoint, and then you got to be firm. So, yeah, it's a balance the the sale is not done until you're paid, that's for sure, paid in full.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm going, kevin, I know most of our audience, or soon to have audience, will know you, but there may be people who don't know you, so just quick introduction about who you are, what you've done, just a reflittle intro for the audience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I'm a. I'm a freight broker at heart, and what that means is we arrange Transportation. So we're the middle man or woman in between a Shipper and a mode of transportation, whether that's a trucker, a sprinter van, a Drage carrier, an ocean content, whatever it is. We're in the middle, right, we arrange it and so that's that's. I started a business that did that in 05 called Nolan transportation group. In 2018, after growing that business, I sold majority of that to Transportation insight and and their private equity group, griffin out of San Francisco. So I'm on the board of that company, still actively involved, not in a management role, but, you know, talking to Ken Bayer, the CEO, talking to the other board members, talking to the sales leaders, helping, you know, push. But so that was. That was my first large business that I started and it's awesome. It's still growing today and the leadership there is really really strong and that business Top 10 freight broker in the US out of. I think there's now 20,000 freight brokers in the US.
Speaker 3:Another business I started, otr capital, which is now OTR solutions. That is a Solutions company for truckers. So truckers have a really really hard time on the road. We provide financing for them, we provide fuel cards. We provide a banking Type solution and clutch cards that they can use to manage their fleets, so that's an awesome business. I Sold majority of that in 2021 To a group out of Boston called Summit partners. They're awesome. They used to own Fleet core, which is another Atlanta based company, and so they're growing that like crazy.
Speaker 3:I have an insurance business, marquee insurance group, where we sell insurance to Trucking company, so there's a theme here. So everything I do, you know, mainly focuses around logistics and then and then the last one that we've started most of our industry is payhawk, go payhawk, and basically that is a digital payments platform, because so much of our industry that I've seen over time is paid in live check. Ach is kind of considered cutting edge. There are so many more payment options out there, not only from traditional credit cards to all kinds of subscription type payments. We're getting more into crypto. There's a lot of different things that we're doing over at payhawk, which is really fun, and then have a family office, so set from selling these companies and, you know, having some good, successful outcomes.
Speaker 3:I still am an entrepreneur at heart and so with that, I've started so Creek Capital, where we'll invest in Up-and-coming businesses and help those entrepreneurs through the questions and things that I've gone through in the past, whether that in some of them graduate on and most of them due to larger Private equity companies or are bought by larger strategic, and so I mean I just have a lot of fun. And then I've got a family, been married for 23 years, got three daughters, 22, 17 and 14, love sports, like to fish, which I think is very, very similar to sales fishing, for sure, but that's me very similar it reminds me that you know, what were you doing right now?
Speaker 2:It reminds me of that. The report that I've been doing is that the reporter, or someone, asked Willie Nelson one time is when are you gonna retire? It's like, well, all I do is play music with my friends and golf, which one do you want me to give up? Right, right, it's just I mean look.
Speaker 3:I, I Love it ever since I was young. I've always loved Beating numbers. You know it's a game, right, and logistics is a never-ending puzzle. Every day it changes. There are so many pieces, it's fragmenting, or everyone talks about fragmented industries.
Speaker 3:I love to sell into fragmented industries, right, where you know Barrier to entry might not be that hard to get in, but hustle, know-how, using technology, you can beat others like that's what I love, right, and so logistics is that and all the ancillary products of it, whether it's the finance aspect, the insurance aspect, the payments aspect, technology as well, you know. So that's that's what I do, and and the main thing that I do when I help businesses is I challenge management To really push and grow sales, because without a big top line you cannot have a big bottom line just does not work and You're gonna lose your customers one way or another. You know. Hopefully it's not through your bad service, but it might be through, you know them, them having an acquisition happen, or you never know. So you always have to be selling for or it's the best, it's the best. Defense is the best is a good offense.
Speaker 1:So Sales, sales, sales you know, that's one thing that we have in common is, you know, I grew up in Atlanta as well, played baseball, you know, for most of my life Over at you go to high school. I went to Chambley high school and then we moved to Alpharetta and I graduated from Milton. But I played on travel ball teams. First travel ball team with some Moore's Mill bombers off of Moore's Mill Road. You know where that?
Speaker 3:is.
Speaker 3:Yeah and yeah, I play for East Cobb and these cob Astros and the George Tigers and so I live in East Cobb and so I didn't play baseball, but I wish I did right. And so by the time that I wish that I had played baseball, it was too late because of that whole Atlanta. The Atlanta baseball scene is awesome, right, and you know. So I live in East Cobb, so all those guys and the in the trips they would have, I mean I'm sure you have stories and stories of cards and you know all the, all the travel baseball you did, and you know just just those guys, the camaraderie they had. And then even in college, when I played football in college, the baseball team was like their own Fertinity, so to say. Right, they, the coach wouldn't let them join a fraternity, but they, they were so tight-knit, like when they walked into a party. Be like all the baseball teams here, right, it's just that it's awesome. Milton, milton B, walton. The other night, that's that's I went to Walton and so Milton just won the state championship in football.
Speaker 1:Where are you now Are? You in Atlanta. Now I'm in Chattanooga, Tennessee, so I'm alright.
Speaker 3:So you're in Chattanooga, Kevin. What about you? Where are you at?
Speaker 2:I'm in Fort Worth.
Speaker 3:All right, nice. So you're not far, you're just up 75.
Speaker 1:Yep, and I remember selling candy bars as a 12 year old and 13 year old and 14 year old kid to fund all of these. You know they would tell us before the season started. All right, here's the travel schedule. Here's where we're going. Here's the hotels we're staying at. Here's the entry fees, the uniform fees Every you know we're the coaches were paid, so every kid was responsible for I don't know. It was like 5k a season or something.
Speaker 3:And you know, and that's a lot of money.
Speaker 1:Here's some candy bars. Go sell them. You sell all these candy bars and you got your season paid for. So that was you know my parents would.
Speaker 3:Tell me bucks at a time. So you sold a lot of candy bars, right? I mean two bucks per right, I mean the margin on it couldn't have been more than a buck, right? So you?
Speaker 1:sold a lot has to be responsible for, like a certain level of, like diabetes or blood sugar problems we live in Atlanta, my best customer is more responsible than anybody.
Speaker 3:Coca-cola, right Like I'm the biggest drug dealer in the South, moving that shit around. I Love it, I love it. It's the most beautiful thing in the world my daughter will, you know, no matter where we are. And don't get me wrong, pepsi's pretty good too, but but you know a good, good Coca-Cola in the South. Nobody can do better with that.
Speaker 1:So I think, I think.
Speaker 3:I Think you're right, though there's, there's, there's something to the Girl Scout cookies too.
Speaker 1:So with that in mind, segue Two-part question. First part is where is your favorite place to go vacation? If you got one more vacation left, where are you going? Are you going to the beach or you going to the mountain?
Speaker 3:barbuda, barbuda, it's. It looks fake. Right, it's, it's Barbuda. It's a little island off of Antigua, I believe I was not there long but I was. We stopped by, you know, on a on a little cruise one time there and it just it looked fake. They have a little no boo like a pop-up no boo, that's there on the. I don't even know if it was real, that's, you know, and I was there. I remember looking around and saying life might be a simulation, but there, like I was, just I kind of. Or or Italy. I went to Italy this past year For the first time ever in the food, and it just felt like where humans were supposed to live. So I Would say barbuda or Italy, but you know, I think bar, I would say Italy. I would go with Italy again, would probably.
Speaker 3:Okay first time a year.
Speaker 1:What's your favorite drink? Yeah, if you're gonna have one drink, alcoholic, non-alcoholic, but just whatever milk.
Speaker 3:Milk, ice-cold, glass of milk, right. So like my, my partners in OTR solutions that are out of Boston, they, we did a board meeting up there and they they made sure that I had my milk at dinner as well as at the, at the, at the Red Sox game. So they joke with me about I love milk man, I love milk and water. Those are, those are my daily go-tos. I used to crush Miller light like nobody's business, but Off that now. But yeah, glass of milk.
Speaker 1:So let's say, I want you just to imagine Way off into the future. You're done working, work is over, and you're on a beach in Italy, retired, and you got a nice big cold glass of milk in your hand. There's there's people walking the beach, they got trays full of milk. There's table.
Speaker 3:One. I don't eat trays One ice-cold, one a day.
Speaker 1:Do you have the big glass of milk in your hand? You're thinking back through your career. What's the last sale you ever made?
Speaker 2:Mmm oh.
Speaker 3:I think my last sale like if I could go out, honestly it'd probably be like a shipper in the Midwest Just call them up through a manufacturing guide or maybe an association list, ask them they're tough as lane and book that load, make $200 margin on it and strut out of the office. That would be the way that if I could end it. Or a 25 power unit trucker out of Elk Grove Village, illinois, switching them over from Apex or RTS to OTR, one of those I mean I don't know, I mean maybe again a 50 power unit at Markey, but maybe just the old sweet spot. Like my first sale ever was a small shipper out of Charlotte called Mitchum Potato Chips.
Speaker 3:They're not in business anymore but I helped them move loads to the Northeast, go into really bad food warehouses that had to have appointments and lumpers and everything else, but dang, I love moving those loads. So I would say my last sale if I could make it that right, kind of like you know, if I got to put on my broker hat one last day, just like you know, they kind of like signed the one year contract for people to go in the hall of fame or whatever. Just book one load and just walk out, but I'd make sure I booked it less than the last person who moved that lane. At least $2 less, right, so I would.
Speaker 2:So really just back to basics, back to that feeling of the beginning, right the beginning of your career. There's nothing more pure.
Speaker 3:I mean, look as a freight broker, it's three dimensional You're buying, you're selling, you're managing, right. So it's like a full on deal, right. Like you get the load and then you got to find the equipment in the truck and then you got to schedule it and then it delivers. It's just clean, right, it's just done, and you move on Like a clean bill of lading is a clean sale, right. You just go on to the next one, right?
Speaker 2:So that would be clean.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, and look, I still think it's a and we talk about it all the time. You know, is cradle to grave or carrier sales model better. See, I was at CH Robinson so I saw, when we bought American backhaulers, the power of laying a big carrier sales force on top of a big customer sales organization, right. And then you saw that with Coyote and Access kind of similar. So we did it a little reverse because I wanted to buy a carrier sales organization but like I would have had to kind of cut down on organic growth and that it was a man like M&A versus Greenfield. And so we've, we've homegrown it, but I'm not fully convinced. I mean, we'll, we'll work it right, we'll have a true buy and sell side. That'll be really really good over time. But you know, two large ones coming together is really powerful. And so I saw that at Robinson and you know have have really tried to recreate it at NTG and and and then I you know, as I've transitioned out the management team, they're Perry, drew, ken, those guys have done a great job with it and so I think they covered 99% of them.
Speaker 3:Customer sale, cradle to grave, yeah, that's, that's the way I started the business, and a lot of nights, weekends, uh, rebookings, everything else. So when it goes bad, everyone always says carrier sales adds another layer. But when it goes good it's like beautiful. So you know it's again. I think it's a. It's a, it's a debate that's an interesting one in the in the Frey Brokerage game.
Speaker 1:It is.
Speaker 2:It's really I started out cradle grave too.
Speaker 3:That is kind of.
Speaker 2:All I ever did was cradle grave. So I don't mean no with other side, even kind of looks like, but it's, it's a simple cradle.
Speaker 3:I was cradle grave. I mean, let's just back up to my days at Robinson. So I was cradle to grave, started in Columbia, south Carolina office. It's where I learned how to sell. Some young, some some young leaders in there took me under their wing and really showed me how to fight objections, really showed me how to work on my script. I mean I would drive to work working on it. You know it was we, would we, we would pound out role playing all the time. So I took a lot of that and and brought it all into NTG.
Speaker 3:But when we had access, I mean I always equated to the access of America Coyote thing and I just listened to Ted talk about this too.
Speaker 3:But when, when, when American back haulers came into CH Robinson, all my loads were covered like by 830 every day for the first week and like I as a control person and like to have control or whatever else, was like who the hell do these people think they are booking my loads? And then, like two weeks later it just clicked like okay, now I can go sell, now I don't have to stare at the load board, now I don't have to worry if that guy or girl is getting unloaded Right and then I have to call my customer and read book or everything else. I go, do what I do best and sell, and so that aspect is extremely powerful. So it's interesting, it's an interesting conversation, but I, I, I like carrier sales because if I'm a carrier salesman or woman, now I have access to sell capacity into my company and so as many truckers as I can get, or as big of a truckers or or I can get like every time those move in my system, I make money Like that's awesome. So I don't know, I like it all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's. It's almost like you're going full circle, right? Your first sale and the last sale that we talked about are so similar and that it's a cradle to grave. Hey, I'm gonna make this move.
Speaker 1:I'm either getting started or I'm headed off to drink my glass of milk on the beach in Italy. But let's think about the other end of that circle what was the largest sale or the biggest sale that you ever made so far? Maybe there's more on the radar to come down the road in the future, but to date, like what's what's one of the bigger sales, and you don't have to tell you details or don't want you to, like cough up any sensitive information, but just want to hear about what that looked like.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean. So again, I think sales is everything right. And so when a bank decides or believes that they're going to give one of my businesses a really large line right, knowing and worrying about you know, is the business pretty enough? Or if I sell a business to a private equity group, they look at it really really hard, you know, they dissect it, they dissect me, they dissect all the other management team. So I would say, probably the sell of NTG, right, like to take a business and to have the companies that wanted to buy it all trying to buy it, having what I believe is the best investment banking group and Harris Williams representing it. Right and selling it. It's just that to me.
Speaker 3:And the transaction being done. You know it was like a load right, like we said, hey, we want to close an X amount of days, right, and if you don't close an X amount of days, you know, we don't know if it's going to work out. And you know, then we had to run around and meet their banks, right, they were running me through the town of San Francisco. So that, to me, is the most proud because it's got my name tied to it. It started in a 700 square foot office space. You know, I had friends, family, people questioning was it the right decision to go out on my own? I mean, I had a great, great trajectory at Robinson, right. And so to me, when that happened you know it was on the Wall Street Journal that was like my biggest sale ever by far and it set up my family and it set up my family office and I was dissected like I've never been dissected. And you know, then the next time it happened, right with OTR, when I sold that, I was prepared right, I wasn't fully, but I don't think anyone's still fully prepared to sell something they worked so hard on and put their life into. But you know, that was that's my biggest one. And that one, you know your biggest one also comes with a lot of other. You know emotions, right, and so that to me was was the best because it was touch and go at times, right, you know Paul Thompson, founder of Transportation Insight, he had other brokerages right on his shortlist, right, and so if we didn't come across the right way, it wasn't going to be us. And so my whole management team, gosh, and the men and women that worked on getting the you know all the ins and outs. So that was by far the best sale you know of business.
Speaker 3:And then, when it comes to the brands you know and the freight game, my biggest sale, like as a young broker, was Enforcer Products, which was a division of ZEP, which was a division of Acuity Brands. And so in that situation, like I got in with the enforcer side, which then led me into ZEP, which then led me into Acuity, right, and so it was like this, this whole snowball that made me learn like, hey, account penetration, what you get in the beginning is only just a little tip of the iceberg, like let's study that account and see what else is there. So those are, those are the two that I kind of like you know. So my first business sale Enforcer Products that was big, out of Emerson, georgia.
Speaker 3:I remember pulling up to the, to the, to the docks, and there was like 80 doors or whatever it was, and then they were adding on more. They had a rail spur, like you know. They had containers and all this and I found them through a manufacturing guide. Literally they told phone book manufacturing guides that they had, and I still order them. Sometimes you can find them online 2005 edition, 2007, 2018. And so that was just out of a straight call. Called Neil Terralo was the shipping manager there. I went and saw him face to face. It was awesome.
Speaker 1:So those both of those are starting small. Right, you're starting in a 700 square foot office striking out on your own, or then, also with Enforcer, you're starting with a relatively small account that's leading into something, something big. Did you have those big targets when you first started, when you first opened up that that office where you think, and I'm going to get to X and then I'm going to sell, and the same thing with Enforcer, where you're like I'm going to start here and then I'm going to end in this future state where I'm going to have the parent of the parent's brand and have this big account Now or like. What was that? What was that journey like, getting from from small to big in terms of your vision? At what point did you see a finish line and say, oh, I know where we're going now?
Speaker 3:You know probably Well on NTG, I started it with the mindset in the mantra top five freight broker. It meant a lot different in 2005 than it means now. Right, I think I got a lot that the, you know, when I left, ti and NTG together is now bigger than Robinson when I left. I think it might be double, I don't know exactly, but when I left Robinson it was like three billion in revenue and there was not anyone else near a billion. Right Now there's 18, I think, or so, that are over it. So the game has changed a lot.
Speaker 3:But to answer your question, even on the Enforcer aspect, I just like to get in there, right, and once I get in there, or once I'm at something, I'm going to play as hard as I can. I'm going to look at all the angles and I'm going to try to figure it out and really kind of just be in there and be there. Now I got to get there, I got to get in it Right, like that's the. You know I had a coach once that said hey, nolan, once you're here, nobody plays harder, but getting you here is a little tough, right. So once I, once I land something or once I'm in it like okay, I like it, there's, there's not going to be much.
Speaker 3:You know that I'm not going to figure out and know everything on it. Like I'm the kind of guy that when I watch a movie, like the actor or the actress, if I like them, I'm going to know everything else. They've been in by like 15 minutes into the movie. So I just, you know, I like to kind of piece the puzzles together and look, and then if there's always somebody you know, like on the acuity thing, which acuity had a ton more other brands that we ended up landing, but sometimes like that's the push off, that's the objection, like there's a big brother that won't let me sign you up, or hey, you're not approved by so and so and we're owned by so and so, okay, well, I'm going to go try to get approved by them, and then and then and then, if they like me or like my business or like my prices, I'm going to win more out of it. So sometimes it was just an objection that I had to fight through specifically on that account for sure.
Speaker 2:I have a question for you, back to the cell of NTG, because it's something I've always wondered. So it's just a curiosity on my part. What's the one set deal closes and that the funds are dispersed, does it just go into one bank account?
Speaker 3:for you, right? What do you mean? What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:Like the the, so it's acquired.
Speaker 3:My money or like your money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you're share of the equity right. Does it just hit one bank account?
Speaker 3:Well, it goes to a lawyer's bank account, right? So it goes to a lawyer's bank account, and then that lawyer then sends it to your one bank account, right? And then you've got to disperse it from there or figure out where to put it and whatnot.
Speaker 3:But yeah it was exciting. I mean, on the NTG side I think we had like 244 people get paid Right. So it was sweet, right and and and you know everybody, everybody helped build that and it still is, and then they'll, you know, then they were all. We all rolled too Right. So it was like, hey, we want to be in this logistics asset that we feel like is the best still, and then we want to combine it with another business that we think is really really good, if not the best managed trans business, which has a sticky, steady income versus a brokerage which is up and down, and so it's been a really really good marriage because of that. And so we all rolled Right and so we're all still shareholders in the in the business.
Speaker 3:So, like our portion of equity, that was cash we got, and then our portion was not rolled into the, to the, to the mothership, so to say, and Paul's bought in eight companies in that group. So it's highly diversified logistics stuff. We're in parcel LTL, managed trans, freight, payment and audit. You know a lot of different stuff. So it's pretty sweet.
Speaker 2:Cool. So let's go back to the first day's or maybe not even the freight workers, but the, the OTR days kind of what are some you know a stressful sell and that can roll into the stressful sell, into a slump Right. And stressful slumps you've had along the way, where you get up and you kind of, you know, question your confidence and be able to sell, or be able to sell, or be able to get out of a situation with, with sales.
Speaker 3:So OTR, otr. Like you, you can oversell in factoring, right. Like you can outsell your cash, which is a problem, right. And so I never want to turn sales off, because once you turn sales off it is very hard to reawaken a sales organization that gets away from. You know the activities that that, that that makes sales happen. But if you don't have enough capital you can't sell, right.
Speaker 3:So you know, every time we added like a new 10 or 15 power unit truck in company, we had to make sure we had enough capital to support it.
Speaker 3:So several times, like we would be raising we don't have this issue anymore at all.
Speaker 3:But in the beginning, right like you have to raise cash to give out, to give to truckers, to buy receivables, to work on it, and so we would run around town and meet with people and raise money. And so when we did that, like that was a sell, like that was a, that was a sit down, like I'm asking you for money, like I'm asking you for $150,000 to put into our business and you know you're going to get every quarter in return, and they would be like, why don't you put it in? I'd be like I've already put it in. Look, this is how much I've put in Everything else. So we had 44 individual investors and OTR at one time with anywhere from $50,000 all the way up to $4 million, and so when we did the transaction with Summit, like it kind of cleared the majority of that out and had them as a large one. But I would have my best sales guy, chris Ebel, who I think some of you guys have met at some of the conferences or whatever else.
Speaker 3:He'd come running in and be like we just signed up a 30 power unit guy and Fritz would be like, oh my gosh, we got to go get 600 grand tomorrow, kev. And so having this large bank facility now has changed that. But Fritz and I would eat at the same place twice, asking rich families in Atlanta like, hey, we need some money or whatever else. And we would tell the waiter like hey, please don't say you just served us 15 minutes ago. And we would be asking the same, we'd have the same presentation. But it'd be like hey, and most families loved it. Right, because we gave them a great sense of return. They cheered for a company based in Atlanta, right, and there's a lot of the reason why we are who we are today. But that is a stressful sale. Asking people for money to put into your business is the ultimate sale. Like, because they have to believe full. And this is like when the birdie made off, stuff was going on. You know American read shows coming out.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:And I'm not listen, I'm not a quiet human right, and so I'm living big. They're worried. Am I, you know, gonna put it all in clubs or gamble it away? I mean, it was, it was, it was a lot, it was a lot. But Fritz, having so, like in those stressful sales situations, having steadiness around you, is super important. So if there's anything out of this podcast that people get, if you're like an up and down volatile person like I can be, having steady, strong support around you is the most important thing and like I've always had that. So in those emotional sales or in those volatile sales, like I got a crew around me that's gonna calm me down, a but B, like everyone's gonna look at him and like it's not just me, right, so that's. I don't know if that answers your question. I know that's not a traditional type sale but to me, to me, asking for money is, is is part of the sales aspect.
Speaker 2:For sure, it definitely is.
Speaker 3:I'm glad we'll do that in New York, right Cause I'd see these people now at weddings or whatever else. I'd talk to them and be like, hey. They'd be like, okay, that's fine, how's OTR doing? And I'd be like, hey, nope, how's OTR doing? And then I, you know, but I love talking about business too.
Speaker 1:So that's great. So is there a sale and this is a sensitive question Is there a sale where you might've made a mistake or something went sideways and you felt embarrassed or guilty or bad?
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean there's a lot of that. I mean being emotional. And you know, conagra. I mean we don't work with conagra at NTG anymore because I went up there it was probably 2017. The spot market had just been hot. I mean, let's not kid ourselves, a lot of conagra staff is old CH Robinson.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of them that was in that meeting with me. You know thought that I took advantage of them in the spot market and I didn't, and I lost it. I lied, we walked out of that place. We don't work with them anymore. I can promise you that. You know, and I should have taken my medicine right. And they don't know, they have no idea.
Speaker 3:There was no transparency on, you know, on this Friday load but, by the way, that somebody else had given back to you that I decided to help you pick up and I could have used those trucks for everybody.
Speaker 3:This is what I said, which I shouldn't have said, but you know that situation there was a customer in the room and it wasn't me, right, and so I lost our biggest account, you know. And my salesman, you know Will Strickland, who's still with me to this day, like you know Harold Barron, who's my partner at NTG. He was in the room like I didn't handle myself. Well, you know, I was challenged and there's a lot of times I act like that, where, like if I feel fear, if I fear like somebody doesn't like me, like I kind of coil and snap and that was a bad one. I mean that was a bad one. And those men and women that were at Robinson with me that worked really hard and run a damn good ship up there, they didn't need to hear that crap that day. But I, you know I was, I showed my butt a little bit there for sure.
Speaker 2:And what was big takeaway about how not to get yourself in that position again?
Speaker 3:I mean I don't know. I mean there was there's some past there, right, like I was at Robinson and now I'm, you know I have this big broker or whatever else. So I don't know, I mean I don't know, I don't know how I was young, I mean I was, I was, I was a lot younger than I am now and you know I would say that that I should have just sat there. You know, I talk too much sometimes, like everybody knows that about me, and in that situation I probably should have just sat there and let Will talk and let Harold talk.
Speaker 3:But I don't know, I just felt like, like I needed to defend our position, that we were not making money and we were getting those last minute loads because your original providers were not there for you, right, and we worked night and weekends and all this to cover your freight and and and.
Speaker 3:So you know, that's just the difference between you know, there's been a, there's been a and it's awesome. Now, Thank the Lord, we have all these men and women who came over from Coyote and UPS and Echo and other places Now that we've got this cross pollination and TI and NTG, but like that's been a hard thing for for for me being a what I believe one of the best spot brokers to ever play in the game. To then go play in the contract game right and at LTL. Like I didn't understand you had to kiss the ring of the carriers right, like you're becoming a liquor distributor. You're getting the right to sell. That's why I think carrier sales was talking about earlier. But that was hard for me as well was when we were running around trying to get direct rates, becoming an LTL broker, of the difference between how you interact with a truckload carrier and an LTL carrier. So I didn't handle some of those conversations great in the beginning either, but we've we've come around and learned how to handle that a little better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds if I'm hearing you there, it's. The takeaway might have been you know the soft skills of listening, even when you know you're in the right or you have a good position, and just learning how to better navigate some of those sensitivities, so so valuable as you progress in sales. I feel like, and having lived those types of things, I can only imagine what you would do differently. Or you know the success that you're able to have after the fact because of those scenarios.
Speaker 3:Oh, I've learned from it. For sure, I've learned from it.
Speaker 1:So, like on the flip side, what's the funniest sale you've ever part of? What was? What was the sale? How long? Take all the death. Crack it down. There's a ton.
Speaker 3:Oh, there's a ton, there's so many, but the best has got to be AJC International in Atlanta. So they are a like a chicken importer right, like frozen chicken center seconds, and they buy and sell meats and they do all this. They've got a logistics branch down but we used to move a ton of freight for them, refrigerated stuff, down around the borders, in and out of the ports and they were doing this health week and somehow some way we call wind of it. And me and Chris Evel and Kyle Richards I dressed up as Richard Simmons, kyle dressed up as Gene Vonda and Evel like was like my sidekick, and we went in and we did a full workout in like Lea Tards and everything, and that was good. And then Santa Claus I dressed up as Santa Claus.
Speaker 3:Everyone in the Southeast you know that was my customer from 05 to 13 probably had me stop by as a Santa Claus, deliver a cookie, cake or. But that dressing up as Richard Simmons probably my funniest by far. I still have the costume. It's called the Simmons. I mean it's fun, big win.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to picture this, Kevin, and it's an interesting oh we ran in.
Speaker 3:I mean, look, we ran in. I mean we ran into their office. We were in and out of there in like 20 minutes but we had the whole place like up five, six, seven, eight, I mean it was just. I mean, we were, you know, we had them doing all the moves, stretching everything. We had a big boom box we were playing. Then we ran out of there, did you?
Speaker 1:get more of a face. Was it successful? Did you get some sales out of that?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, there was and that's the other thing right Like when you go in, when you go and do a face to face, you get to meet everybody else in the office, and some of those men and women might be finding trucks or need your service as well. So, yeah, we got a ton more people. I remember that. And then our intro emails or follow-up calls were so easy. It was like hey, this is Richard Simmons or hey, this is Jay Fonda.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's go to this because I know about the Air Force One story. I think we swapped pictures of our Air Force Ones. What's the most money you gave away? Or, all right, maybe not gave away, but what's the highest dollar value of a sales promotion you did within your company? Probably the cruises.
Speaker 3:Maybe what was the best one.
Speaker 3:I mean one like do you mean, well, we've done a Corvette that we've given away to whoever you know, booked the most truckloads. We've done cruises, for sure, where we've brought 150 people and they're significant, other spouse or date. We've done cash giveaways, but I'd say probably, you know, it's usually like around 80 to 100 grand is the most that I'll do, like what I call like a throw cash on the fire to kind of light ignition and re-energize that sales energy right, and so I mean probably a hundred, 100 at once.
Speaker 2:And it works right. I don't think it works, or you wouldn't do it.
Speaker 3:No, it works for sure, but it's like a drug, right, you can't do it all the time, right? Or, like you know, it also like creates. You know it's good, it's good, it's something to kind of sprinkle in, but it can't be your whole MO, right, your culture has to be good, your product has to be good, your services have to be good. It can't be all about, you know, just getting the sales team to stand up and work for, you know, quick cash or quick dollars, you know, sometimes it also, you know, again, I know what I'm doing when I do it. But sometimes I know that, like the accounts that you get fast, like that they're going to leave fast too, right? So a lot of times, some of those sales quota busters type things or whatever else, you add a lot of accounts. They might not be extremely long-term sticky value, but they're sure as hell fun, like I mean, like we.
Speaker 3:You know we do dollar, dollar lottoes in our business on Fridays where you, you know, write the name on the dollars and people drawing out and they get the whole thing and you dump cash on them. Those days can be seven, eight grand people are walking out with, and I'll always juice those pots on Fridays. So you know, we love, love, love sales contests, like I think, I think there's there's a lot to them, you know. But like you know, for MIG, in January this month, doing whoever does the most face-to-face visits, the four men or women that do the most face-to-face visits will come to Florida, hang out with me. Fish will play golf, will do a good dinner and will review their pipeline and everything else Like that one is going to cost me maybe total, with flights, hotel rooms or whatever else, 12 grand-ish. But those four people that I spend that time with, like it'll be, it will be like we'll gel. I'll help them close some accounts, you know, I'll, you know. So that that is, that is that's invaluable to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I always think about like those contests as being, like you know, lighter fluid. Lighter fluid is great for getting your coals going, but you don't want to cook your steak on lighter fluid alone. It's going to taste a little funny.
Speaker 3:So you got to have this, absolutely absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2:It really is Well, what's your most memorable self? Kind of kind of the, the, the roller coaster. I don't know if we've asked this. I will tell you this and I you know my first conversation with you was one of my most memorable conversations because I was in a wasp of a home. I was trying to run carrier less and I got this bright idea of writing a handwritten note to everyone in the top 100, the CEOs right, and one person called me back and it was you. I didn't make a sale that day, but it was a great conversation I learned a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. Look, I, I, you know my most memorable favorite I, you know we just got the big award from Coca-Cola. I know I brought them up earlier, but you know we're we're moving more afraid with them than we ever had. And it's funny when, when the men and women go visit Coca-Cola at their headquarters now, like my picture, comes up, anything with NTG, it's like hey, and I think it's like get this guy away from the door, or like hey, he's coming, or you know, tell him we don't have any freight.
Speaker 3:So you know, having Drinking Coca-Cola my whole life, I mean, I, I think a lot of my success. I ran on Diet Coke for years. Um, I just, we were told no, for so long. I mean I still have clients and customers. That that I call them clients and customers are not yet, but they're, they're going to be, that that I haven't closed yet, but that one, and winning that account and winning the amount of volume that we're winning from them, it just that brand right, it's just. You know, every commercial, even this time around the holidays, the Santa drinking the Coca-Cola, you know, around Atlanta, coca-cola executives, um, parents of kids, the families that I just admired and they had, like, the Coca-Cola room. Of all the old, you know, memorabilia, um, so that to me is, is, is incredible. I just that's the one I'm the most proud of, and and I think right now, and, and and it's not easy, right, these big accounts, you don't make a lot of money on them, you know, but you do get a lot of volume and you do get a lot of money. You do get a lot of volume and you do build your business. But you know, contract and enterprise business you have to manage so hard. I mean you have to make sure that every account, every, every, you know that you're paying attention to it daily.
Speaker 3:I joke with the executives around Atlanta about Home Depot. Like Home Depots are a count of ours, but they got. They got as many people, I think, in logistics as NTG does, like there's Biggest Shipper, walmart. Any of these big men and women, right, like they, they'll crush you. Like they'll head to head like a 50 million or a hundred million dollar top line fray broker, home Depot is going to whip your butt. Like you are not making a lot of money on that account, I don't care who it is, niagara waters, niagara waters going to smoke you if you don't know what you're doing.
Speaker 3:So you know, just because I love the Coca-Cola account doesn't mean I'm going to make any money on it next month or the next month, right, but at some point we will, and we do. We do make more than we lose, but you know. So sometimes the big brand isn't always the best. I also love the mom and pop. You know that I don't even call them mom and pop, but like the midsize shipper that does 200 truckloads a week, like that's a great account. So they're all good, but Coke means the most to me right now, just because of how long I chased it.
Speaker 1:You see a lot of meaning in that, especially when you put in so much work and to finally get it. It's the satisfaction there is more than just the brand man. It's been great, kevin. This has been an awesome conversation. Any last takeaways to leave with our listeners, or any last words of wisdom for all the salespeople that are out there listening?
Speaker 3:All right. So a trick I have I pulled my arm hairs. I think I've said that before but, like you know, just it'll wake you up before you go into the meeting. Yank your arm. If you don't have any arm hairs, maybe an eyebrow. If you don't have any eyebrows, maybe pinch yourself. But be awake, go do a face to face, go see somebody, go, you know, and then just keep grinding.
Speaker 3:You know the slumps that I've been in it's usually not because of my work, it's usually because of, like, stuff going on outside of my work. So you know, the best salespeople I've seen are the men and women who can turn off and off that switch, turn on and off that switch and just get into the sales mode of like, I'm going to do sales for an hour right now. I'm going to do sales for an hour and a half right now. And that does not mean going in and finding leads for the next time you do sales. That means you go into that room and you go bang out calls, you go bang out emails, you write handwritten notes. You do something for an hour and a half every day sales oriented. That's outbound and you'll make tons of money. I mean, that's that. You know, if it's a muscle that you work out, work out your sales, work it out, work it out every day. You have to do something sales oriented or your business will shrink.
Speaker 2:It's all about. You can't grow the top line fast enough.
Speaker 3:I mean the top line. The top line is the start of everything, right, and then, as it trickles down, then you got to pay attention to everything else, and everything else is sales as well. The other thing, you know I've thought about it a little bit more since you've asked me the sales that I'm the most proud of, I think it's convincing men and women to come work with and for me, right, that is the ultimate sale. If someone's willing to give 50 hours a week or whatever they really do, to some of them 100, you know some of them you know around the clock, some of them less, but if they're really willing to give their time and effort to come represent what I started like I sold them, like I sold them. And then that's that, to me, is the most special thing, most powerful, and the sales that I'm the most proud of, because, again, sales is everything in business.
Speaker 3:You're constantly. You got to sell someone to come work for you. You got to sell somebody to be your vendor. I mean it's, it's nonstop. So I love that you're focused on this. 2021 to 2023 are industry did not have enough sales focus. We didn't have to, right, and so you got to re crank that sales engine. So let's see what you can do 2024 is right around the corner.
Speaker 3:It's going to be big.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for joining us, Kevin. Appreciate your time and look forward to the next conversation.
Speaker 3:Heck, yeah, thank you guys.