A Hero's Welcome Podcast

The Journey to Mindfulness Self Compassion with Rose LaPiere

• Maria Laquerre-Diego, LMFT-S, RPT-S & Liliana Baylon, LMFT-S, RPT-S • Season 2

Share episode

Send us a text

What if embracing your own imperfections could not only enhance your life but also positively impact those around you? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Rose Lapierre as we unravel the art of mindful self-compassion. Inspired by thought leaders like Dr. Kristin Neff and the Dalai Lama, Rose shares her transformative journey, shedding light on how recognizing our shared human struggles can cultivate compassion for oneself. As therapists, mothers, and entrepreneurs, we navigate the intricate dance between professional duties and personal wellbeing, underscoring the vital role of mutual support in our quest for authenticity and self-kindness.

Together, we explore practical techniques for nurturing self-compassion in everyday life, from tuning into bodily needs to employing comforting gestures and creative tools like sand trays. Our discussion highlights the unique pressures faced by female-presenting professionals and the liberating effect of self-kindness in combating self-criticism. We also delve into the barriers marginalized communities encounter in accessing self-compassion, advocating for mindfulness and self-kindness education from a young age. With relatable analogies and sensory strategies, we offer insights for mental health professionals, educators, and parents to model these practices, fostering a ripple effect that extends compassion to their clients and children.

A Hero's Welcome Podcast © Maria Laquerre-Diego & Liliana Baylon

Maria Diego:

Welcome listeners. Thank you for joining us on today's episode of a Heroes Welcome podcast. I am your co-host, maria LaCar Diego, and I'm here with my other co-host.

Liliana Baylon:

That's me, Liliana Baylon, and we're here with a special guest. We know Rose for years, so we're so glad that she finally said yes to us. Rose, how do you formally want to introduce yourself to our listeners?

Rose LaPiere:

So I'm Rose Lapierre and I am from New Jersey. I see people in private practice now mostly and do consultation and teach. I'm also a mom that part is really important to me of two boys.

Liliana Baylon:

I was like, yeah, that's really important to me. I was like wait, who? Two boys? Yes, that's what we have in common. I also am a mom of the two boys. Thank you for being here. Tell us, Rose, what is it that we're going to be talking about today?

Rose LaPiere:

So today we're going to be talking about mindfulness, self-compassion today. So today we're going to be talking about mindfulness, self-compassion, and yeah, it's a big, big topic. The lens of just to where I've learned from is the last I'd say, like maybe eight years or so, is Dr Kristen Neff. So some of what I'll be referencing is related to her work. But, of course, mindfulness and self-compassion has been around for thousands of years through Buddhist teachings and just to like acknowledge the history, yeah, Cool.

Liliana Baylon:

So tell us, what is it that we as therapists all of us who are listening suck at when it comes to self-compassion?

Rose LaPiere:

us for listening suck at when it comes to self-compassion.

Rose LaPiere:

So I think what I have found in my work for me, juggling the role of being a business owner and a mom of two boys and I'll probably share some pieces of things in my life which I have permission to do from my kids and it can be really hard to manage taking care of clients and being present and connected and showing up in other people's grief and sadness and challenges when you also are struggling in your own life or you have your own challenges at home.

Rose LaPiere:

So you know, probably about 20 years ago I read this book, the Art of Happiness, and there is it's from the Dalai Lama and the other author is Howard Cutler, right, so this is that book has been around for a really long time and in one of the chapters that I really connected with, it talked about I guess it was about suffering and the common humanity in suffering and the lens of that was just I really became curious about because there was something about reading and connecting with other people's suffering and the kindness of being able to offer myself that not being alone felt very peaceful to me and it was something I didn't really understand in terms of mindfulness, self-compassion, but then, as I learned that it made sense and so I have access to that and use that, whether like I'm in a moment with my kids where something is really hard, or even in a session with clients where it allows me to be kind to myself, to connect to me so that I can show up for the person that I'm with me so that I can show up for the person that I'm with.

Liliana Baylon:

I love that, Right. So right before by the way, right before we started recording, we were having this conversation which I thought, man, I wish we would have recorded Because part of it is we are in a field, just as a mental health professions and other fields can relate to this too health professions and other fields can relate to this too but where we expect to be professional and on all the time and by that I mean like we're not supposed to. It's not about us in the room, Right, it shouldn't. But meaning like, to a degree, you're still human, and I love when you started, which is within the suffering, right, we're able to connect and not feel all alone, which is when our clients feel seen, understood, because we're able to empathize, either because of what they're sharing with us or because we have a shared experience. Right.

Liliana Baylon:

Yet our profession, depending on the credential that you have, they keep asking you not to show up in the room and in that, whatever you are, whatever stressor you're going through as a therapist, it's almost like you don't have permission to. And the three of us are mothers, the three of us are therapists, the three of us are business owners, and then we have so many other roles that we play in right, Including reading a book, that we're struggling right now in our book club. There's so many things, the realness. And even in that we keep texting like help me connect to this, Help me like how do we do this? But even in that, you know we are practicing. How can we show up? How can we do this? But even in that, you know we are practicing. How can we show up? How can we be authentic? How can we elevate each other? How can we connect? And I think even in that, you're showing us Right, that's exactly what you're doing. You're showing us how to be able to have self-compassion in those moments.

Maria Diego:

Yeah, I love that you're speaking to because it does it feels alone, right, the work we do is confidential, so that remains with us, and perhaps the supervisor or consultant that we are working with, but that's stuff we hold alone.

Maria Diego:

Being a parent feels very isolating at times, right, and like nobody else is going through what I'm going through isolating at times, right, and like nobody else is going through what I'm going through. Being a business owner, you know you can feel very alone. Being a supervisor, you can feel very alone and it does come with. I think I've said this probably a half dozen times in the last week and a half that just because we're therapists, just because we're play therapists, doesn't mean we're not human and we're going to have moments where we're not kind to ourselves, where we're not the best parent that shows up, we're not the best boss that shows up, that. But I think this idea of mindful self compassion is something that we all need to kind of pick up and run with because it'll help in those moments.

Rose LaPiere:

Yeah, yes, I'm thinking about this moment. You know like I work a lot with parents who have kids with really challenging behaviors for lots of reasons and or vulnerable nervous systems right, another way to say it and my son has a vulnerable nervous system and lots of challenging behaviors in growing him up he's an adult now, but I'd have moments where I'm carrying him out or where he's had some medical experiences where things were just really hard and I would sit in my car I can remember, you know, going to work moments of like how, what am I doing? How am I doing this? Right? So I would really need to notice this is the mindfulness part that I am having a hard time right now. Right, being able to be in the moment to notice what's happening for me. This is really hard.

Rose LaPiere:

And then noticing what would I say to myself and there were many times it would be very hard for me to come up with something nice to say to myself, right? So I would think like, okay, what would one of my really good friends say to me? What would my sister say to me? She would often have a very like encouraging and kind voice. What would she tell me about my parenting in that moment so I can come with, like you're doing the best you can, this is maybe really hard and then offer myself, like I put my hand on my heart or maybe put my hands together to feel the warmth of them and acknowledge that and say that to myself. Right, so I have these pieces of knowing, also the common humanity of, like I'm not alone. Other other therapists who are parents also have kids with challenging, vulnerable nervous systems or have moments that are hard. So that's like a place where it can show up easily for me, where then it helps me like maybe feel my sad and then be able to transition to working with a parent who also has a struggling son, maybe within like an hour. Right, I have to kind of gear up and then become a professional and also a person like carry in the human experience of being a mom who also has challenges.

Liliana Baylon:

Yeah, I think I love everything that you just said, which is we have a new cohort of therapists right that we are actually pushing for. I will not deny my experiences. I will not deny what I'm going through. I will not push through. I will not repress in order to show up. Yet I can still show up and connect with you and be professional because you are paying me for this space. But I'm still here with what I'm feeling Like I love that. It's funny. Yesterday I went to see one of my favorite books turn into a play, which that's a very common thing to do and as soon as you said like I will call my sister, I was like I will not call my sister because she's from the same family culture with telling me suck it up, push through, um.

Maria Diego:

But even in that right.

Liliana Baylon:

So I was like, oh no, maybe I'll call your sister. Um, my sister is great, but I'm very aware that we come from a different ethnicity that has a different mentality and and part of our taking care of was exactly that armor up and then go through. There was no space for and you know, becoming even aware that when we're working with those parents, like, how do we allow them to borrow our nervous system in order for them to have a different experience of? How can you have self-compassion for everything that you're enduring through the day, all the stressors and expectations that you have from society, from your family, from school, and how can we model and have moments of self-compassion and mindfulness to be in the present moment and what is happening for you? Such a beautiful gift that you're talking about today. I love you, alexis, if you're hearing this, yeah.

Maria Diego:

I think that's authentic too, though, right like we all have like, uh, we hope that we all have a slew of people and we have certain people. We call for certain moments, right like I have friends that I'll call when I need to hype up no questions asked, right. And then I'll have other friends that I call when I'm like I need you to really be in this with me. And sometimes they're not the same people and that's okay. But I'm wondering, rose I mean you're talking about, you know, borrowing or being kind to ourselves, or borrowing kind voices to give ourselves those messages in the moment. What else can be reflective of this? You know, mindful self, compassion what else can that look like?

Rose LaPiere:

So so many ways really. You know, even in moments when I'm in between clients, right? So, like I'm have my 10 minutes to either go to the bathroom, get something to eat and transition in some way. But often what I'll do is I'll check in with myself to notice what does my body need and how can I offer it in a compassionate way, right? So I am often trying to infuse these words to myself. That helped me really anchor in like inner compassion, inner kindness, thoughtfulness.

Rose LaPiere:

Like you know, I will often get migraines, and so there are moments where I maybe didn't even note like my head was pounding at the beginning and then maybe I somehow dissociated from the pain I don't even know how that my head was pounding at the beginning and then maybe I somehow dissociated from the pain I don't even know how that happens and then at the end of the session I'm noticing it coming back or that it's been there the whole time, right? So putting my hands to my head, being able to like, maybe have a moment of just a massage or smelling an essential oil, taking in the sense of this, is a kindness to myself. I'm not annoyed by my body signals, although I'm not denying that there are things that can be really frustrating. As you know, I'm also aging and transitions have happened within my body, so there are frustrating things that happen. But being able to have compassion for that, this is hard for me. We can do this in a sand tray. You can come to your space and notice what you're having a hard time with, create a container for that and then create something compassionate to hold the things that are hard right.

Rose LaPiere:

So there's creative ways to access this. If that is more of someone's like needing to have it, more action. And then there's even just noticing, like the gesture that you could do, whether it's like your hand on your heart or even like the hug right, so, like your hands, almost like a butterfly. When I'm working with clients, I'm helping them access like what gesture feels good to them. What gesture actually does their inside body say is the gesture that feels right for them? Right, we could do that too, for ourselves, to notice what feels right for them.

Liliana Baylon:

Right, we could do that too, for ourselves to notice what feels right what a beautiful way to even model consent what feels good for you, right, because that will, uh, transcend to what does it feel. Can you notice what does it feel good for your child, instead of like what you want to do?

Maria Diego:

yeah, or even what the have tos right? I think the other thing I'm I'm picking up from you, rose, is like we are all driven by this, you know, idea that we have to, we have to do it all. We have to, right, I know, but right before we were talking about, you know, the generations before us having to, you know, take on all of the household labor and chores and emotional labor. Child-rearing was often strictly for the female presenting partners and you know, heaven forbid, they also worked a job outside of the house and carried all that. So I think, especially as female presenting practitioners and business owners, I think there's an extra layer of like. I feel like I have to do it all, and when I don't do it all, I can be really mean and nasty to myself and just focus on the shortcomings. And what I love hearing is like that can be shifted and that's a really good, maybe even indicator that this is a practice that needs to be kind of implemented and taken on.

Liliana Baylon:

Yeah, and even as you're saying that, maria, I was like, and that even not only creates awareness, but it's a privilege that other generations didn't have, only creates awareness, but it's a privilege that other generations didn't have. We're asking ourselves now is this something that we want to do? What is it that my body needs? How can I provide this for myself? We're not asking someone else to do it for us, like we are learning to listen to our bodies, and that is a privilege that other generations including not just females, but within the roles of being a therapist, they didn't have. This Absolutely.

Rose LaPiere:

Right. So one of the things this is a good segue into this part of the mindfulness, self-compassion that can happen is that there can be a moment in the beginning, when people are learning to connect with themselves, that grief shows up when we're offering compassion to ourselves Anger, sadness. I can remember when I was first really trying to practice doing this, there was a moment I had this exchange with someone in my family and that my kids were there and I just was like I'm like I need to just offer myself some self-compassion and I then started to hysterically cry. I think we were like leaving the house or something, and I can remember. Then the kids are like, oh my gosh, mom, are you okay? And I'm like you know what? I think I just realized I haven't heard that voice to myself to like that it's okay that you're having a hard time. And I said I think I'm just feeling sad that I haven't been kind to myself in a long time and they were just like okay, I think he was like eight years old or something seven years old. I think he was like eight years old or something seven years old.

Rose LaPiere:

And but for me, having that experience, I had read about hard feelings that can come up with self-compassion. But I want to name that to people who are going to explore this. It can be like you know, you've had all these, like you've been dusting a room and cleaning and you've just shoved everything under the carpet and self-compassion can be the thing. That is like lifting up the rug and the dust is there and we don't want to like throw it out, throw the rug out and just be like, oh, and here it's all back again, because that will flood in all those hard feelings. So if you're trying this and having a hard time, it's okay, like it's also really normal. Just go slower, take a pause, move further away from it and come back to it in smaller segments or do it with someone. So I I feel like that is super important for people to hold on to. There's nothing wrong with you because you're feeling sadness or you hear a critical voice when you're offering yourself self-compassion.

Liliana Baylon:

And so, right there, right we're talking about we don't have a template for this and we're learning as we go. So rejecting that template when it shows up, it's completely normal. Feeling everything is completely normal. Not knowing what to do with what you're feeling is completely normal because all of us are learning a different template that our parents or other, or a supervisor or other therapist they didn't share with us because they didn't have access to this.

Rose LaPiere:

Yeah.

Liliana Baylon:

Beautiful. I mean, the three of us are like for all our listeners. We're like so engaged right now and looking at each other, we're like yeah.

Rose LaPiere:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And just you know, also wanting to connect with you, know people in our society who have experienced, you know, oppression or racism or discrimination can also. There can be bigger challenges in accessing self-compassion because of all those layers of there's something wrong with you, right, learning that from a very early age. So there are wonderful mindfulness, self-compassionate teachers who are people of color who are also teaching this message and doing it in a way that really honors and is respectful and hopeful for people, for all people to be able to have access to this.

Liliana Baylon:

So let me ask you this, because, as you're talking, and we're talking about older generations and the new cohort, and how are we sharing this with parents which I love that you're working with parents so much, and everything that you share and everything that you post, what is the one thing that you wish our systems, either associations or schools? Well, yes, yeah, we'll start teaching um early on in regards to mindfulness, self-compassion.

Rose LaPiere:

I think like we don't even need to use sometimes the word of self-compassion. I think it's just teaching kids to be able to notice, maybe, the experience, the feeling that they're having, and then can they have, develop a voice, find a voice, access the teacher's voice of kindness, right? What happens with when we work with kids, especially kids who have anxiety or experiences you know, traumatic experiences the critic or negative voice is the one that's amplified, and kids never really learn anywhere how to actually amplify the other voice or what the other voice could possibly be like. So I feel like it can be done in very playful, simple ways of being able to have people dip their toe in oh, you're taking a test. And remember, sometimes when we're taking a test, we get that negative voice that's like you can't do this, blah, blah, blah. You know in silliness. And we can also just, you know, be kind to ourselves and say like, wow, I studied, I did the best I could and I'm just going to be patient with myself, right?

Maria Diego:

So even just acknowledging that we can have these contrasting voices, that we can decide to amplify one over the other, yeah, I mean I've been watching Inside Out 2 with my kids and like that's what's coming to mind as a play therapist inside out too with my kids and like that's what's coming to mind as a play therapist and you talk about this right Is using that language to help children and adults. You know, be more mindful of perhaps, like who's in control of the console, who's driving um who? Who can we acknowledge, like I get that that mean negative voice is there and I can choose to amplify kindness and compassion right now, in this moment.

Liliana Baylon:

Oh, beautiful, I love that, right, because we're talking to everyone who's listening, who's in the mental health field, and we're like look, there's so many things that we can do for ourselves and in that, we're modeling to our clients. If they're parents, like it's going even beyond that, because they're then duplicating that at home with their children. If you are a teacher, like this is a way for you to connect with your students and if you are a client, if you are a student, like this is the way that you can start practicing these things from who's in your support system. As Maria stated, like we have people to call for everything that we want to add fire wood to the fire. Like we have the person to do that that we want to compassion. We have the person. Hopefully, you have the person to do that. Also, is the touch that we need to apply, the butterfly, that we need to provide pressure in order to make sure, like to have the sense that we're here.

Liliana Baylon:

You were talking about sensory, like what are the oils that I enjoy in that moment that they can bring me to my body and they can help me? It's a citrus, it's a lavender. Like whatever it is for you. Like whatever it is for you. You're talking hey, if you are a therapist and if you have access to a sand tray, you can go and create a tray in order to help you not only become aware, externalize it, to create a container in that moment. And then you're teaching us this beautiful thing of yes, we have negative cognitions. Then more than likely, we took on from systems, either our family or school, whatever it was. But you can also amplify the other voice, you can also empower and allow space for the other boy and we can say, like kind of the inside out, we have these controls and we get to press buttons to see, like which one that we want convince clinicians to to do this.

Maria Diego:

Not just for them Well, for themselves, because I think we can get people to buy in to do this for client work and for the work that we do. But how do we, how do you get clinicians to buy into this for themselves? Because self-care is such a buzzword, it carries such such heavy and negative connotations. So what's the trick? How do we? How do you? How do you get them to buy in?

Rose LaPiere:

Yeah, I think. So I've taught on this topic before and what I call it is not necessarily mindfulness, self-compassion, and so that is part of it, because I do feel like one people don't really understand what that means. So if I were to label a workshop that way, it just doesn't capture what we would do. So this was actually at the conference where we were together in Virginia where I taught the workshop. So I called it something, but nurturing journaling, called it something, but nurturing journaling, collage and something else a movement, I think. And we did experientials where we experienced. First it was like I scaffolded the skill of mindfulness, self-compassion with noticing, you know, like creating what are your likes, what are the things that you don't like, notice what it feels like. Maybe there's the same thing on each list. Right, I can enjoy one thing, and that also can be the thing that's hard for me. And then we move to talking more specifically about building up the things inside of us that feel good, moving towards the things that feel good, and giving people experiences and noticing their body what does your body need right now? And being able to do that through movement. So, whether it was a massage to their temples or, you know, stretching and having kind words as you were doing that instead of like, oh, I can't believe I'm stiff Right. Like, oh, my body feels tight. Like let me just be kind as I'm stretching, or let me be patient to myself as I'm moving.

Rose LaPiere:

So I think it's hard because, I mean, I'm hoping that that's part of the reason why I wanted to talk about it, and I know there are other people that also talk about it as well.

Rose LaPiere:

I'm hoping in this it will get people curious enough to maybe go on Dr Neff's website and do a self-compassion meditation or read more about how this benefits therapists.

Rose LaPiere:

In the moment is that when I'm with a client and I'm noticing I'm trying to keep my one foot in and one foot out, as we say in EMDR right, I'm in a trauma situation where they're talking about something and I'm noticing activation in me. I can easily put my hand on my heart and that will help my nervous system go into a break where I can feel more connection to me and a slowing down without me saying much to myself. But I can also acknowledge like, oh, this is hard for me and this is. I'm staying connected to my client and I'm noticing something is happening in me Right and so there's benefit to that. So I think therapists maybe even just hearing me talk about it from that lens how that benefits them to be self-compassionate, because you can be more present with your client and you're not. You're less likely to dissociate, to get activated, where then your nervous system is, like you know, bunched up and really tight and you're leaving at the end of the work day exhausted.

Liliana Baylon:

Um, yeah, I love that, that dual awareness, right, like so beautiful, oh, um, okay.

Liliana Baylon:

So, as we're getting, I was like I we can. I think it's because my nervous system feels so calm with you right now, I'm like, but obviously for everyone who's listening, we're gonna put Rose information in the podcast. Please reach out to her, either for consultation, because you're curious and you want to learn more, but also so that you can ask what are the workshops that she's doing so that you can go and attend, or even so that she can recommend books, because she actually has good books to recommend and you should read them. And even like in this conversation, right, that we are labeling mindfulness self-compassion, not only as a therapist, as a business owner, as a parent, as a wife, as a mother, like we have all these roles that we carry with us and we tend to minimize by just what we do instead of who we are. So it's a beautiful way of like. There's too many things that Rose have mentioned today in regards to what you can do. Please reach out to her so that you can learn more from her.

Rose LaPiere:

And what is one thing, rose, that you wanna close our podcast episode today with. I think I would love people to just be curious about this conversation and maybe even noticing where they can find, if not a kind voice within themselves, where in their life they can pull from. What would a friend say to me that would offer me something kind in this moment that I'm feeling stressed out? I think the curiosity can lead people to explore more about this because this topic, although can seem really light or like self-care-ish, right in that, it is deeply rooted to the connection to ourselves um for everyone who's not.

Liliana Baylon:

You're going to listen, watching. I just want you to know that the image that I came out as ross was talking about is almost like if you're holding me um right, because you are like from your tone of voice and what you're sharing. You have this beautiful presence of um having others not only feel seen, but being nurtured, and that is the gift that not everyone has. So, thank you you.

Rose LaPiere:

Yeah, that feels really. I feel really grateful to know you both and to just share these moments with you and all the moments that we had before, like just yeah, really grateful to be with you thank you same, yeah, and thank you for for sharing, um, your, your wisdom, um, with our listeners.

Maria Diego:

I'm hoping, uh, that people do stay curious, um, and find out where you're presenting next and sit in on a workshop or two, um, I know there's some of my favorites to attend. So, um, they'll, they'll, they'll, love it and then be better for it, for sure.

Liliana Baylon:

So until next time, listeners, thank you and we'll see you later. Until then, bye.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Liliana Baylon, LMFT-S, RPT-S

Host
Head Shot

Maria Laquerre-Diego, LMFT-S, RPT-S

Host
Head Shot

Rose LaPiere

Guest