EP 141 | Strategies for Mastering Confidence in Your Professional Career

In this week’s episode, host Lisa Tarkington and her guest Danielle Robinson, Assistant Vice President of Corporate Philanthropy, sit down to talk about gaining confidence in the workplace. Finding your voice in your career can be hard and in this enlightening conversation, Lisa and Danielle discuss their own stories from the start of their professional journeys.

Tune in for tips on how to build confidence in your skills and become more assured in your leadership.  Whether you're just starting out or well into your career, this conversation will inspire you at any stage!

Chapters:
 3:18  Confidence in the Workplace
11:44 Developing Authentic Confidence and Self-Awareness
17:46 The Importance of Feedback and Self-Reflection

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Our Guest, Danielle Robinson's information to connect: LinkedIn

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome to the Confident Podcast. I am Lisa Targinton, your host of this podcast. If you found yourself hitting play on this podcast, it means it was meant for you. My goal is to help, empower and guide you to become a better version of yourself through conversation, advice and tips that are real, vulnerable and authentic. I am excited to have you join this journey with me, so let's get started.

Speaker 2: 0:31

Hey everybody, welcome back for another episode of the Confident Podcast. I am your host, lisa Targinton. It's such an honor to be here, being in this seat, looking at 2024 and all of the great things that we have this year happening. It is going to be an exciting year. I don't know about you guys. I think in the last podcast that we did, I shared a lot about the goals that I was setting and the things that I have going on. Even on my as I'm talking, I have them right on my wall right over here in my home office, thinking about all the things that I want to focus on. If you are sitting here, you're driving, you're listening, you're thinking about all the things that you want to focus on, you came to the right place when it comes to things for confidence. Today, our subject is really confidence in the workplace. It's funny when I hear that the one thing that I think about is me working back into the corporate world when I was there, as well as how it's changed for me now being in the nonprofit space. It's going to be full of exciting strategies and tips and all of these great things.

Speaker 2: 1:30

I'm not doing this solo. We have a fabulous guest, danielle Robinson, who is going to be on with us in a second. Before we have her come on, I just want to remind everybody that the podcast is here to support you. It's not only to help you know that you can do it, that you can have confidence in yourself, but it's also to give you tips and strategies to really help you grow in those areas. Not only that, we're big on story. You're going to hear from some stories about people, including myself and Danielle, who have just maybe didn't always have the confidence Over time. We had to really grow in it and we're still learning and growing. We're going to take a quick moment to hear from our sponsor for today and then we're going to dive right in.

Speaker 1: 2:12

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Speaker 2: 3:13

All right, we are back and we are ready to dive into the confidence podcast all about confidence in the workplace, and I'm going to introduce our guest for today. So Danielle Robinson is the ADP of Corporate Philanthropy of Jackson, and I cannot go without saying that Danielle was one of my first bosses and leaders when I was I think I was 21. No, I was 20. I had 20, 21. Right before I jumped into my the world career that I have, I had it down and then I have now, and it's it's amazing how things go full circle, right Like you're around leaders who really made an impact on you at one point in your life and still do to this day. So, danielle, welcome. I'd love for you to share a little bit about yourself with our audience.

Speaker 3: 3:57

Well, good morning Lisa, good afternoon, good evening, whatever time we are talking, it is so good to be with you, and I have to start by saying when I think of an exemplary student intern, I think of you, and it's so wonderful that you, that you have brought me on for this topic of confidence, because also, when I think of confidence, I think of you, and so I'm so grateful to be here with you all today. So a little bit about myself.

Speaker 3: 4:25

I went to Michigan State University go green, go white and study communications and public relations After college I was so fortunate to get a job starting right out of school at Jackson, first in their internal communications department and then leader to run our philanthropy programs. And during that time I met the wonderful Ryan Robinson, who is now my husband and, I would say, my unofficial career coach, so maybe I can talk a little bit about him and how he has helped to inspire more confidence in me as a leader through our marriage. I also love to volunteer personally. In addition to leading the company's volunteer programs, I sing in our church choir and perhaps my background in music and theater has helped me gain a little confidence too, and I could talk a little bit about that along the way as we're talking today. But really it's just a pleasure to be with you, Lisa. Thanks so much.

Speaker 2: 5:23

Thanks for being on, and it's funny because I think about my time as an intern all the time with Jackson. So it's funny to me how, for so long of my life the nonprofit space and going back to confidence for a second in the workplace I knew that that's where I was meant to be. But I also loved the corporate piece of it too, and so I went down that corporate road and then my faith in God was like nope, you got to come back around. But all of those things, Danielle, was because of the partnerships that we had at Jackson and all of these great things that I had. So anybody tuning in that is looking for a career change or even starting out somewhere, learn and embrace yourself into all of these different aspects, especially if it's an area that you wanted, because I honestly don't think I would have went into the corporate world had I not worked at Jackson for a while. So it's super cool to see.

Speaker 3: 6:13

I love hearing that. I think volunteer service is one of those things that teaches us a lot about community and a lot about the needs of the community, but even, maybe more importantly, it teaches us a lot about ourselves and the things that are important to us, the things that we are good at, the things that the world really needs from us, and so I'm so grateful to hear you say that, lisa. I encourage people all the time to get involved with service when they're feeling a little directionless or unsure. Serve someone else and you'll find where you're meant to be.

Speaker 2: 6:40

Yes, exactly so, Danielle. Obviously you are Assistant Vice President of Corporate Philanthropy now.

Speaker 1: 6:49

But I know that you didn't just stir up that way, right out of college.

Speaker 2: 6:52

So obviously, confidence in the workplace is what we're going to be talking about, and it's extremely important. Confidence is all about believing in your skills and believing in yourself, and so sometimes, when you're starting a new job or starting out your career or anything, it's hard to have that confidence. So tell us a little bit about, like, maybe, when you struggle with confidence, like how you've gotten to where you were, to where you are today.

Speaker 3: 7:13

Yeah, you know, I think an important component of confidence is that it is rooted in reality. When you're young and just getting started, your confidence will be different than when you have worked in the industry or role for 15, 20 years. It will be different Because confidence is really about helping to express to others what you know. Your true value is what you know you can contribute, how you know you can make an impact. And, of course, how you can make an impact changes over the years. So to your point, lisa.

Speaker 3: 7:49

Yes, I started well, not even in this role and in meaning not even in the field of philanthropy, but in the field of internal communications. But then the company had a need to begin a corporate giving program. I was very interested in the work, started volunteering to help with it and, of course, you know how it is when you say you'll help with something and you're good at it before you know it, they need you to do it all the time. And so that was the wonderful joy for me. And in my time at Jackson I have been promoted five times, and I think that is related in part to confidence, because every single one of those promotions I had to ask for I had to ask for by name. I had to describe what the job would be In each case.

Speaker 3: 8:24

They were roles the company had never had before. It's not like I was taking it, it's not like someone left and I took their role. They were brand new roles to the business and I had to describe what would the value be of that role? How could the company justify creating a new role, an elevated role? In each of those instances and of course that is so can be so intimidating, but it took, you know, good advice and encouragement for many people along the way, a lot of what I call patient persistence. So you know bringing forward an idea to your management and then not forgetting, not letting them forget about it. You know bringing it up politely and professionally, over and over, and really coming forward with suggestions that add true value, that aren't just about me, we're just about what I wanted, but we're really about what the company needed to and how we could come up with something together that would really add a lot of value.

Speaker 2: 9:14

As you were saying that, all I could think about was that could be really scary.

Speaker 3: 9:20

Like literally make your heart pound. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2: 9:23

Because you know so much of like what's needed, but like, then you have to have that confidence to actually verbalize it right. And so, like, how did you go from like okay, this is my idea. This is where I see the value. Also, I am curious, before I dive into that, like, how did you know that you had to say the value piece? Because I think so many times when we look at things we're like oh, I see this. I don't know all the details, but I'm just going to spur it out and it sounds like you kind of had some things in place before you even opened your mouth. So tell us a little bit about that.

Speaker 3: 9:52

Yeah, I'd say one. I'm a very avid reader. I do a lot of reading, including a lot of business reading and sort of personal development reading. And you know something you gain from learning from others is you know you gain experience beyond your own years. And so that was something I learned early on, like through reading, that I couldn't always be just about me, that if it was just about me I would never reach my goals. But if I was about the whole and I was about what the company really needed, I would get there.

Speaker 3: 10:17

And I would say it stems all the way from some advice I got from one of my very first bosses, marty Ackley, when I was that. So I was an intern at Michigan Department of Education as a student at Michigan State and I remember when I told Marty I got this job at Jackson, he says well, danielle, look around for what they need, you know, and be sure that you can add some value. You know, offer your assistance, as there are needs that the business has. And it just struck me that like he wasn't just saying like, ask to do what you want to do, he was saying look around for what the business needs.

Speaker 3: 10:47

And yeah, that has served me very well over the years.

Speaker 2: 10:50

Wow, that's awesome. I love hearing that. And so when you think of like a confident leader right, like he sounds like at that point was a confident leader for you, so like, what does that mean to you and what do you think a confident leader is?

Speaker 3: 11:02

Boy. Confident leaders look all different. They're not the same, oh my gosh. Yeah, marty's a great example. I think of a few other people. I think of the late Kelly Rossman McKinney, who ran her own PR firm, and I interned with Kelly when I was in school and Kelly was bold and outspoken and just the perfect person to lead a public relations firm you know she just had the great, great skills up for that.

Speaker 3: 11:28

And then I also think, though, of someone who's completely her opposite, karen Bussey, who runs Mother Teresa House, which is a hospice house in Lansing for folks. And Karen is quiet but direct, you know, and never misses a chance to tell the truth. I think that's something you know true about confident leaders, as they always speak the truth in a respectful way, but, probably, when I really put my finger on it, confidence is, you know, being authentically you. It's bringing forward your gifts, your God given purpose to the world, you know, in a way that respects others, but really just being yourself.

Speaker 2: 12:02

Yeah, and, as you said, that the one thing that I was just picturing myself or anybody doing is sitting in that boardroom right, like I don't know why. I like picture like that moment when someone has an idea or someone's talking and you're like I have something to say, but I and I want to be confident in it and all of these things. So like, how do you, how would one show up being that confident stuff and owning who they are? Because I think authentic confidence is so important, but to get people there it's tough, right, and so getting there and then aligning to your values is also important. So like, what would you say about that?

Speaker 3: 12:35

Practice, practice, practice. You can get better at everything through practice. So start with something small, something that feels like you know, just a small demonstration of practice, of confidence in a safe place.

Speaker 3: 12:50

So you know, with your family, with your friends, you recommend the restaurant to go to, you recommend you know the movie to see, you know. So practice and kind of think and reflect on like, what did it feel like when I acted confident? Because the thing I think it might not be immediately obvious is that people who may appear confident and the inside they're just like everyone else. They're thinking I mean, I at least, I'm just like everyone else, thinking boy, was that the right thing to say? I think it was. I wanted to say it. It seemed like it was the right thing to say.

Speaker 3: 13:20

Let's see how everybody reacts to this you know, and so I mean I would say one is practice. The second thing I would say is look around for examples. I've been fortunate at Jackson in particular, that from very early in my career I had opportunities to present with our management teams the highest levels of the business in a pretty formal setting, and it had to do with the type of role I had because I was overseeing corporate giving. Of course that goes all the way to the top. They want to hear what's happening. You know, not everyone in every role gets that experience so early in their career, and when you're in those meetings they're so different than other meetings. You know people behave differently, they speak differently, they prepare differently, they're so ready for the meetings. And so you know, I had the opportunity to get some great practice but also great observation of others, and so I'd say practice. And then I would say look around for role models and see, you know, if there are things they are doing that you might be able to put into practice yourself.

Speaker 2: 14:15

I love that and I think that one of the hardest parts is when you're in that younger age group or even like starting something new. Right, you're like I just want to be the expert now, and I think what you remind ourselves all the time is like it's okay to not be right, it's okay to you know where you want to go. I remember when I was applying for jobs out of college and it would say there were jobs that I'd look at and be like five to seven years and I would read it and like I can do that job and I couldn't have like right, like I think in my head.

Speaker 2: 14:41

I think I wanted that because I wanted to get to that level. But had I gotten there without the prep, without, like you said, practice and all these things, I don't think I'd be as appreciative of where I am today. So I think it's like confidence in the workplace also comes from what you said, like practice and having those mentors and role models that you can look around and be like oh, look at how much respect they get, and all those things you know, I like what you said least, that about being the expert and sort of not assuming that you have to be the most expert on something in order to be confident.

Speaker 3: 15:15

But I think expertise and knowledge is one way that young people can really start to grow in confidence. Because the thing about as you age and grow in your career is you naturally grow in knowledge. You know you're having more experiences. People who are really skilled professionals, they read all the time, they're very smart, they spend a lot of time. This is not by accident. You know, they spend a lot of time educating themselves and growing their own knowledge.

Speaker 3: 15:40

Well, as a young person, that's something we can all do is, you know, read voraciously. You know, don't just get an email and kind of scan the subject, read all the details, look at everyone who is on the email, consider, like, why did they send it to all those people? What you know? Kind of think through all the details of what's happening and I think through some of those things you can grow in your own knowledge. You can grow in your own sort of your own reflection on your confidence. That helps you then speak up in those meetings. Like so often, I think in meetings I can speak up because I've read the prep materials.

Speaker 3: 16:10

I know exactly what they said, and then when somebody says something that's contrary to those prep materials, or then I say, well, you know what, when I read that, you know it said this and this, and it's like, well, that was just a fact. I wasn't really, you know, doing anything that novel, but it gave me the confidence to speak up when it's sometimes I have less confidence or it can be harder to speak up when it's an opinion, when I say like oh but this is how I feel about this, or this is the impression I'm getting from this, but to just share a fact. You know, that's a great way to practice confidence.

Speaker 2: 16:37

That's a great point. And also prepare right, like that's the other piece of it too, like confidence in the workplace comes from not only practice, but preparing, spending the extra hours, spending the extra time doing things.

Speaker 2: 16:47

Like it's so funny because even yesterday, I think, I spent like five hours on a Sunday, which I don't recommend to everybody all the time, but like I had to study for something coming up because it was the only time I had and that's, and I think, one thing that you're coming up to which was actually going to do. My next thing that I bring up is self-awareness, and you have this awareness to understand, like what do I need to do to get myself from A to Z right, or like to move up to get those promotions, to have that confidence. So how would you say that self-awareness has played a vital role in developing your assertiveness, or steps that people should take? A really wrong self-awareness, Because it's funny, real quick. I teach self-awareness all the time, and one of the things I tell everybody every time I speak on the keynote. As I say, self-awareness is so important. So many people think that they have it, but very little people do have it, and it's so important when it comes to confidence.

Speaker 3: 17:40

Yeah, I will share a quick story to talk a little bit about self-reflection. So when I started at Jackson, I was 21,. I was right at a college. About a year or two years into my career at Jackson, our department VP at the time called me into his office, which of course, was already nerve-wracking, and then he proceeded to tell me that he could see, because he saw my work product every single day, that I was doing exceptional work and really outperforming what you would expect from someone of my age.

Speaker 3: 18:13

However, he had gotten feedback from more senior members of our management team about the way I was presenting myself in meetings and interactions with them, namely that I was too casual, that I was overly cheerful and it was causing me to come across as unprofessional, not as intelligent as I am and maybe less capable than I truly was. And, of course, he was coming from a good place to tell me this because he knew how capable I was, because he would see my work product every single day and interacting with me every single day, whereas these people weren't, you know. But I was so young I had no idea that what to me felt like a natural, normal interaction with someone. What's the way you treat a friend outside of the office when you are a college student, not the way you treat your boss's boss when you are in a professional setting, and so the feedback was so hard to take. I mean, it was soul-crushing at the time. It felt like he was saying they don't like you.

Speaker 1: 19:14

You do not work here.

Speaker 3: 19:17

But I'm so grateful because I was able to think on the feedback.

Speaker 3: 19:23

Because I had this good relationship with that boss too, I could come to respect and appreciate that he was doing this for my own good, he was giving me that feedback for my own good and I began to think about it and to think about what he really said, reflect on some of my interactions, think of how others were reacting and realize he was right. But I could make some minor adjustments to the way I was interacting in the office, particularly with members of our management team, to help them understand really how committed I was to the work, to help them appreciate really the great skills I was bringing, without distracting them by sort of the way I was communicating with them and giving them this false impression of me. So I would say, you know, I share that story to share like it's hard to get feedback like that, but it's such a gift and it can really it can take you, you know, to the next level. It can really help you grow in a way that when you don't get that kind of painful feedback, you really you never can.

Speaker 2: 20:20

Yes, I love that you shared that and, first off, thank you, because I think what it does is it reminds us that, as we're growing and as we're evolving in confidence in our workplace like we don't know everything right and the impressions that we give, and to have that self-awareness, like in Daniel, what you did that I want to remind everybody is that you did something about it right. Like you can take feedback all day and say okay, and then go on with your day and not make the changes and then play victim mindset of, well, why didn't I get that promotion? Or why didn't this person invite me here? Well, it's because I didn't take that feedback right, I didn't do something about it. And so I love that you share that because you're right, like now it kind of evolves into where you are today. Right, had you not taken that feedback, maybe you'd still be bouncing some of those things.

Speaker 3: 21:05

You know, it's true and I really, at that point I definitely knew I had a choice to make. The choice was, if I want to stay at this company and be successful here, I can listen to this feedback and I can make adjustments. And if I don't care about this, if I, like you said, want to feel like a victim and feel like they don't want me here, I can move on. I could do something else. So lots of other places I could be, but of course, this is where I wanted to be. I loved this work, I love the company. I could just really see myself here and clearly it's been the right move for me. And maybe beyond that, I can even just share something that's helped me along the way.

Speaker 3: 21:37

When I get constructive feedback like this, or feedback that's hard for me to understand is having someone to really talk it through with. So I mentioned my husband. Ryan is definitely my unofficial career coach and I regularly talk with him about things that are happening at the office that maybe are frustrating to me or unclear to me, and he's so good because we, of course, know each other well. He's so good at helping me to see another perspective, to consider where they might be coming from. It might feel good if he was always placating me, but he does not.

Speaker 3: 22:08

And he regularly really brings out the best in me by challenging me to consider things that are maybe hard for me to consider, and it's such a gift and I really encourage people, especially young people, who are still single and looking for the right one, for the person to sort of give their life to, so I regularly encourage them to take that decision very seriously. I think it's one of the most important decisions we, as women, make is the person that we will attach ourselves to, and they can be your biggest cheerleader your biggest support, your biggest role model, and certainly Lisa, of course.

Speaker 3: 22:45

You have found Mr Perfect too, so you know what I'm talking about, but it's just really such an important decision and one that can make such a difference in your life.

Speaker 2: 22:54

Yeah, and I'll be honest, I did not know how important that was until I got older, like at least for me. I had to realize that older in my life. And then, once you do, you realize I needed the challenge. I needed someone. That isn't like sure I want them to take my side all the time, but that would never help me grow. And if I have these goals and my aspirations, I need someone to do that. And I think right back to confidence in the workplace that is so important, right Like your support system, however, that looks for people from a workplace, from a professional and personal life. All of those things really do add up to help you a lot. And I think one thing that I see, and I teach a lot on as well, is confrontation and constructive feedback, because people are so scared to have those hard conversations Like your boss came from such a loving manner when he gave you that feedback.

Speaker 2: 23:48

It's still hard to take, it's still hard to give right, it's like you're giving feedback to you, like we have, like I'm always giving feedback, but I also know I look at that person and be like I know what they're capable of and I want to see them succeed and so. But I think too it's about doing something about it and, as women personally, confidence is sometimes hard in the workplace. Right, like being assertive. How do I come off assertive, how do I come off knowing and showing that I'm capable of these things? So how would you think that that's like assertiveness and leadership styles are really important when it comes to, like, your confidence.

Speaker 3: 24:26

Well, I think it's personal and I think being assertive sometimes is also related to being sort of aggressive and overly direct in a way that can be unkind, and I don't think it has to be, I think it can be. I think that's some people's style. I think many people's style can be more soft spoken, more gentle. There's all different forms of communication. This can also help people in-person, direct, one-on-one communication is one way to communicate. Written communication is another way to communicate, over the phone.

Speaker 3: 24:55

Sometimes these different channels of communication can help people be more assertive, who might not traditionally see themselves as being assertive, to try a different channel of communication. But I guess one other practical tip I can give is I have found when I've had situations where I needed to ask for something that was gonna be difficult for me to ask for, like a promotion, like a big change maybe in the way we were doing work. I often prepare by writing down what.

Speaker 3: 25:24

I wanna say I know I talked about practicing. I always practice, but something that's been really helpful to me is also to really nail the ending. So you know, you've got a pitch, you've got something you want people to know. Whatever your last line is know it by heart, finish it and look up. You know, smile be, done.

Speaker 3: 25:42

Do not go on and on, because that's of course the time your nerves just go crazy and you want to also on your back, pedaling and telling them all the reasons they shouldn't do what you want them to do, and so that is for me, that has been a practical tip that has really helped.

Speaker 2: 25:55

Oh, I love that I never think about like the ending right. You're always like worried about like the whole thing you know. And I love that you said like that on and on, because I can tell when people aren't confident when they go on and on and feedback I got, probably like three years ago was, lisa, you are so passionate about what you do. You could talk forever about this. I need you to reel it in and it was. It was one of those moments. So it was because I was so passionate but I was also learning and that I wasn't as confident in what I was saying. And now it's like, if I can say, if I can't say that in three sentences, I need to work on it, but it's helped me tremendously.

Speaker 3: 26:30

It's, it's true and it helps your listener really observe what you're saying. If you can be brief, yes, totally, totally.

Speaker 2: 26:38

So kind of like ending Danielle this podcast around like confidence in the workplace. What would you leave our audience with today?

Speaker 3: 26:45

Okay, maybe two things. You know the. The first one I would say is, if you are just getting started and you're thinking I have all these great aspirations, all these places I want to go, all these things I want to do, don't Allow yourself to become overwhelmed by you know sort of the Journey and how far it might be, but instead just take that next right action and know, trust yourself, have confidence that it will happen for you. When I look back at my early days at Jackson, I could have never dreamed how big it would be. I could never dream all I would have accomplished, all we would be able to do, the impact we would be able to make, and I wish I could go back and tell myself, hey, you'll get there. You know, be patient, just keep, keep doing that next right thing.

Speaker 3: 27:33

So maybe that's number one. And the number two is that no one knows your value like you do. So as you are going through your career, as you are going through the relationships in your life, you know, be sure that you are asking for what you want, because no one will know what you want until you tell them. So I encourage people to, in a you know, pull light and respectful way, always make clear what it is that they really want.

Speaker 2: 27:59

Oh, I love that. I love that and, as we're looking at this new year of 2024, that's such great advice for people to start the year off strong right. And so, danielle, thank you so much for being on this podcast today and sharing your insight and to everybody listening in. I know there were so many takeaways from today and I hope that you continue to spread love and kindness to everybody that you need. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 28:21

Thank you. Thank you for tuning into the confident podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, follow the confident podcast on Instagram and tiktok and share it with those who might benefit. Also, if you are looking to work one-on-one with me, message and follow me on Instagram, at least the Tarkington official. Stay confident, stay inspired and until next time, keep striving to be the best version of yourself. Take care.