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Tomb It May Concern

Putting the Fun in Funeral ... and Pro Wrestling

March 31, 2024 Patrick Dobbins Episode 4
Putting the Fun in Funeral ... and Pro Wrestling
Tomb It May Concern
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Tomb It May Concern
Putting the Fun in Funeral ... and Pro Wrestling
Mar 31, 2024 Episode 4
Patrick Dobbins

In this episode Patrick and Asher recount their personal experiences at funerals. They also wax poetic on the virtues of independent professional wrestling. 

Visit us on Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/tomb_it_may_concern/

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Show Notes Transcript

In this episode Patrick and Asher recount their personal experiences at funerals. They also wax poetic on the virtues of independent professional wrestling. 

Visit us on Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/tomb_it_may_concern/

Patrick:

Hi, this is Patrick editor's note. Asher. And I went on a rather long discussion about pro-wrestling. If you're not interested in hearing about that, you can skip ahead to about the 18 minute mark, but I wouldn't recommend it because it was a good conversation. All right. Thanks. Bye. to Whom It May Concern, the podcast where we stare into the abyss and see what stares back. I am your host Patrick

Asher:

I am Asher.

Patrick:

and today we're going to be talking about our experiences with funerals. How do you feel about that?

Asher:

Yeah, I feel great about it.

Patrick:

Feel great about

Asher:

it's part of what we, episode one, it's a callback.

Patrick:

Yeah, it is a little bit

Asher:

callback. Was it episode one? episode, we talked about it in both, obviously, and stuff.

Patrick:

Yeah, we talk about funerals a

Asher:

Yeah, but I think that, um, we touched on, the funeral subject quite a bit. So it'll be fun to like, Talk about what our actual experiences are with funerals.

Patrick:

So before we get started, how are you doing? What's, what's been going on in your world? Anything exciting?

Asher:

well, I started a new job, so that's been pretty sweet. and I just met my friend for brunch, which was really nice. And, Yeah, I think those are like my biggest updates. yeah, I don't know. What about you? What's going on in your world?

Patrick:

Nothing much, but we ought to share with our listeners that you got to experience something for the very first time. A couple of weeks ago, you and me.

Asher:

What did we do?

Patrick:

We went to a professional wrestling

Asher:

day of my life. Best night of my whole lifetime.

Patrick:

So we went to an independent pro wrestling show. It was Asher's first ever.

Asher:

Wait, let me preface this by saying something though. cause I think when people hear that, they think Oh, these people must be really into wrestling. Patrick is a true wrestling fan. I am. Through and through. I watched one documentary, On Roman Reigns, per my boyfriend. He was like, let's watch this thing. It's a YouTube documentary. I was like, sure. I've always been curious about wrestling. genuinely curious about it. I wasn't called to it, let's say, okay, but it's like, I don't know why, like, I know I've never known like why I'm curious about it. And after you watch this documentary, first of all, the entire documentary, I was like, like jaw open, speechless, like totally into it. could not have you, I didn't even pee, I don't think, and I, you know me, I pee every like 10 minutes. I was like, this is the best thing I've ever watched. And then I start texting Patrick and I'm like. we have this nerd group chat with Patrick and, Brit that was on the podcast and my boyfriend Dave. And so I'm like, you guys, we've got to fucking go see some wrestling. Like we have to do this. And Brit who's known me our entire lives is like, what is wrong with you? Like, where is this coming from? So I tell her about this documentary. Who is this person?

Patrick:

met before in my

Asher:

I, and I think no one took me seriously. that's what I really think happened. And then Patrick was over here like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to go watch wrestling, whether you losers are into it or not. And then the time came when Patrick was like, here it is, here's some wrestling for us to

Patrick:

And it's cheap. It was 15 a

Asher:

It was so cheap. And I just took, taken like a huge pay cut. And I was like, you know what? I am going to do this because I, this is my calling. And so we all signed up for it. It was like a month prior. Like, I think you bought the tickets like a month in advance or something. and honestly, that day I was so tired. I worked it was like maybe week two of my new job. And it was like a long day. I had to like, hurry up, go home, take care of my dog. I was so fucking stressed about it, and I was like, I'm going to this thing. And then it truly was like, one of the best nights of my life. It was, we had a fucking blast, all four of us. It was a goddamn treat. It was so

Patrick:

nice. There were maybe a hundred people there. Maybe.

Asher:

though I was surprised.

Patrick:

was packed, but it didn't hold very

Asher:

No, but I was still shocked at like, how many people showed up for this.

Patrick:

And, by the way, I, we probably should shout out to Exodus Pro Wrestling here in

Asher:

Yes, yes, yes. It was

Patrick:

And they put on a hell of a show. the characters that they presented were just

Asher:

epic. Absolutely. Epic.

Patrick:

I love that independent wrestling, now full disclosure, in my life I have been involved with independent

Asher:

What does that mean?

Patrick:

So when I was much younger I was the webmaster and sometimes photographer for an independent wrestling organization

Asher:

I, sometimes I don't feel like I know anything about you.

Patrick:

I'm, I'm a man of

Asher:

I've known you for so long and I did not know this.

Patrick:

and when I did that, I also refereed from time to time. So yeah, I was in the ring.

Asher:

You know what's up, man. You're like the in

Patrick:

Yeah, I knew, I know all the, all the lingo, all the jargon. And so I was very involved with wrestling. I'd loved wrestling from the time I was a

Asher:

Yeah,

Patrick:

for anybody who of my age. The very first pro wrestling match I ever saw in my life and this isn't gonna mean anything to you, but anybody who knows about pro wrestling knows that for this to be the first match you've ever seen in your life is something the very first pro wrestling match I ever stumbled upon on cable television when I was a kid was Hulk Hogan beating the Iron Sheik for his first WWF title. World heavyweight championship, which was the beginning of the modern era of pro wrestling when Hulk Hogan became the champion of the WWF. That was really the birth of the modern pro wrestling, where we are today. Before then, it was,

Asher:

I was gonna guess you were gonna say something about Hulk Hogan, but I couldn't remember his name. Yeah,

Patrick:

he was big guy with a, with blonde hair, but a big power, power donut on top.

Asher:

Gross.

Patrick:

But, and we don't talk much about Hulk Hogan anymore. he's been canceled, but. That was the very first pro wrestling match I saw. and I loved pro wrestling as a kid, but then I took about a 20 year hiatus where I didn't watch any, I don't know.

Asher:

Oh, you just like, weren't

Patrick:

just weren't interested. Wrestling got really boring. and then about two years ago I got back into it. And so I've

Asher:

Was it because of Roman Reigns?

Patrick:

It was not because of Roman Reigns, though. I do think, sorry, sorry for anybody listening. I do think Roman Reigns is kind of overrated, but anyway,

Asher:

anyway. isn't that kind of like his M. O.

Patrick:

Yeah, that is kind of a sezmo.

Asher:

of his

Patrick:

As much as I loved the big organizations. Yeah. Like the w Now the WWE and a EWI love a EW and I know don't Anybody who's, again, people are pro wrestling fans. They're very tribal. I love both of them. I don't pick sides, but I, but, and I do like the a EW there's just something about the independent circuit that is so fun.

Asher:

Yeah. That

Patrick:

they all have. Other jobs, sometimes multiple jobs. They're doing it because they love

Asher:

it. I was just gonna say,

Patrick:

they want an

Asher:

that, that's the part that is you can, feel that realness, This is because these people are like truly just like into it. It's like a passion of the, it's a passion project. you can like feel that at that night anyway.

Patrick:

it is, and it is so goofy and tongue in cheek, some of the Some of the people who were on it, we had, the Permanator,

Asher:

God, I love

Patrick:

we had the Permanator. we had,

Asher:

my boy? Who's the heel? I can't remember his name. Oh, the cougar guy.

Patrick:

was he Jaguar?

Asher:

Yeah, but it was like, and his butt said, It was like Casanova or

Patrick:

Yeah, something like that. I forget what his name is. My apologies to whoever that guy is if he happens to listen to this.

Asher:

truest fan. But

Patrick:

I was really impressed because you went in there and you were, and everybody was booing him except you. You were like, I like this guy and you were like, can I do that? And I was like. Yeah, you can love

Asher:

into him. Yeah, I loved him.

Patrick:

A lot of people love the

Asher:

heat. I loved him. and I think what I was like, the, what, I think what was exciting to me is to me, like, Wrestling feels very much like, and this, I might be completely out of turn here, but like, I think what has always been kind of like a turnoff for me is like this, Celebration of more like white culture dominance type vibes, and I felt like on this night, like the heels were not the white people. And I think that was part of also why I was like, beat those white people. It's I was like, they don't get to tell the wrestling story. Like there was something

Patrick:

I'll tell you, wrestling is It is a different, it's almost a different thing now than when I was

Asher:

I'm sure. Yeah.

Patrick:

it is much more diverse there. when I watched wrestling as a kid, if you saw one woman's match every six months, that would be a lot. And now

Asher:

They bust out the women at the end. I was like, I didn't think women were coming on.

Patrick:

there are there, the women play a huge role in pro wrestling. Now they main event cards before. They were either a novelty or they were completely objectified. at one point the WWE's women's division was called the divas division. Yeah, it was all just to show as much cleavage as possible and it's completely changed from where what it was back then. It's a, like I said, it's almost a complete, the level of athletics that are involved today versus 25 years ago when everybody was just

Asher:

roided up fuckin ripped, though. I was like, holy shit! the amount of work and I think that's what impressed I always knew that about wrestling, like, everyone's like, it's fake, it's fake But it's still, like, a lot of work or whatever But I think, like, after watching that documentary And seeing, like, I mean, you do get physically hurt, even though

Patrick:

you're active,

Asher:

you know,

Patrick:

I think Yeah, I thought I would too. They would

Asher:

Yeah. I thought I was like, they have to, they would have, you know, I'm sure there's like concussion risk and stuff like that, but even in this, like this very, what did you call it? It's not, it's independent. Okay. It's like, The amount of effort and skill that these people were showing, I was like, this is fucking

Patrick:

And, and they didn't get there by accident. they put, they've put in a ton of

Asher:

Yeah.

Patrick:

and I will say, you mentioned the concussion, everything. That is one thing that modern pro wrestling has taken very seriously is the well being of their athletes and their performers. It used. If you go back and you watch some old pro wrestling, there are things in there that just will make you cringe when you like chair shots to the head without any head, without any hands to

Asher:

protect them,

Patrick:

And it's, they just can't do that anymore. and the other thing that happens that used to never happen, I don't think I remember a single. Time where it happened when I was growing up and it happens every couple of months. It will happen. They'll stop a match Because somebody is hurt. They'll just say Matches over, done. And most of the shows are live, right? So they can't do anything about it. And there have been some pretty big matches that they've hyped and everything. and somebody gets dropped on their head and the referee just says, done. We're, we're not, it's not like the old days where you got a concussion and you just kept on going. It's if there's, if we think one of these guys or women are legit hurt, it's done. Stop the batch. don't know

Asher:

that makes me think of another question that like sometimes, you know how like, I don't know if you know any magicians. But Oh, okay. I personally know some magicians. So my friend Kelly that, you know, her dad is magician and like did all these magic shows, like growing up and stuff, their family is so fucking serious about not revealing the secrets because it's a culture and you can't, like you're not allowed to, and that's great. And I like, love it. And there's something very enticing about that. So my question is I wonder if there's some of that going on. I'm like, how do you learn to be like this wrestling performer? Like, is there like, is this like underground thing? Like you just start and you find other people doing it and then you like learn the moves and learn how to protect yourself and make it look real.

Patrick:

So there are, so you've brought up two interesting things about

Asher:

Oh, good.

Patrick:

And this is not a professional wrestling podcast, but we're going to, but it's our podcast And we can talk about

Asher:

about everyone. Exactly.

Patrick:

First of all, there are schools that teach it.

Asher:

I wondered,

Patrick:

There are schools all

Asher:

has to be because of the amount of

Patrick:

in a lot of cases, it's if you're, if you get interested in the pro in the independent circuit, you can learn as you go, but there are legitimate schools, but, and the schools not only teach you, the moves and stuff, but they also teach you how to build a character, how to do promos. So there's a lot that goes into it, but you brought up something that is very interesting about pro wrestling again today versus when I was a kid And one of the big things that, that plays into this, what I'm about to talk about is social media. Okay? It's the concept of kayfabe. Now, kayfabe, and I don't know if you've heard about it in your Roman Reigns

Asher:

documentary So

Patrick:

So kayfabe is the world of professional wrestling. That is,

Asher:

stand for?

Patrick:

it doesn't stand for anything. It's an old carny term. It's the pretend world of pro wrestling. It's Roman Reigns hating Cody Rhodes for wrestling. That's kayfabe. That's part of the

Asher:

right? And it's like the lore of

Patrick:

yes, and then there's the real world, right? When I was a kid, You didn't have any access to the performers in the real world, right? So if they were heels that for the uninitiated, a good guy in pro wrestling

Asher:

know any of this until Roman Reigns

Patrick:

a good guy in pro wrestling is a baby face. And,

Asher:

laugh every time.

Patrick:

it's a baby face, and the bad guy is the heel. and then there's some people that are in, they're called tweeners, the ones who are kinda, they're tweeners,

Asher:

I haven't heard that one

Patrick:

they're tweeners. But anyway, but for the most part, you are either a baby face or a heel. And growing up, you only knew them from their kayfabe world. you didn't know what these people were behind the scenes. You didn't know the person behind the character and that dynamic has completely and utterly changed with the advent of social media, with Just what seems like a cultural change. It used to be that even when a professional wrestler was in public, just like your magicians, right? And that's why this came to mind, the magician's code, there was almost like a pro wrestler's code. You didn't break kayfabe. So if you were a bad guy in. Anytime you were seen in public, and interacted with the public, you were that

Asher:

character.

Patrick:

You would act like that character. They don't do that anymore. And so that has had what I think is a real transformative effect on the fan

Asher:

Definitely.

Patrick:

of pro wrestling because I think in a lot of cases. Now, I think this drives the older generations crazy, right? But the younger generations, they're oftentimes not rooting for the character or against the care they're thinking about the person behind the scenes that they know. So I'll give you a great example. One of the most dastardly heels in AEW is a guy named Adam Cole,

Asher:

hmm

Patrick:

Adam Cole. I mean, he's, he's, he had a, he had a stint as a good guy here for, you know, last year, but he's naturally a bad guy. He's always been a bad guy. But he's also a Twitch streamer. He also has multiple YouTube

Asher:

I think you've talked about him

Patrick:

And when you watch him on Twitch, and his Twitch handle is TheChugs, he is the nicest human being that you've ever run across, right? He is so kind and supportive of his community. And by all accounts, when you, you know, read social media or whatever, behind the scenes, he is the nicest guy. And so even when he's being a dastardly heel, people still love him because they know that the guy behind is actually a solid dude, right? So I think that has been a really transformative aspect of where we are in 2024 as far as pro wrestling goes. So even when you have There was an incident that I will get into, with a wrestler in, in, in AEW. some allegations came out about him a few weeks ago. A couple of months ago and he was and he he was a good guy, right? He got booed out of the building because people knew that yeah, you're the good guy in kayfabe, but in real life You may be a piece of shit. It was never quite figured out whether he was a piece of shit or not It's still it's still but but it was suspected right and the fans are more Clued into it the because they're on the internet and they know so it's a complete, so wrestling is completely different now than it

Asher:

Wouldn't it be nice if that's how it worked with politics? Wouldn't that be nice?

Patrick:

if you actually cared more about the individual's character than you, now, if this had been 1998, ahem, Republicans, you would have said, character does matter more than anything, funny, they don't, they don't seem to have that belief

Asher:

definitely not.

Patrick:

but anyway. So, With that being

Asher:

Death. Death. Yeah. We're here to talk about death.

Patrick:

So we're, what, 15 minutes in and we haven't talked about death, so we apologize.

Asher:

you're still

Patrick:

Yeah, so we should, we should open the show by saying, hey, if you don't want to hear us talk about professional wrestling for the first 15 minutes, you can skip ahead.

Asher:

ahead. We probably should've started there.

Patrick:

Should have started there.

Asher:

maybe understand that sometimes our podcasts will just be tangential and, have nothing to do with the death

Patrick:

Yes,

Asher:

Exactly.

Patrick:

so let's get back to the topic at hand, which are funerals and more Accurately, our personal experiences with funerals. So let me ask you this, Asher, have you ever been to a funeral?

Asher:

So many

Patrick:

So many funerals.

Asher:

I don't think I could count how many funerals I've been to. Yeah. I've been to a lot of funerals.

Patrick:

And what is your general impression of the funeral experience?

Asher:

We talked about this a little bit. Either in the first episode or the cost episode, but, Overall, I, fucking hate everything about funerals. There's nothing about There is not much about funerals that I think speak to me or make me feel better about my, like, grieving process. With the exception of So I think like the after party that like the, I come from an Irish family. So it's Irish quote unquote, but like Irish tradition of like, yeah, of like, you know, let's celebrate, happy stuff after all the sad stuff, that is honestly more what I remember about any like major people that have died in my life. Is that at like after party that has happened. yeah. And the actual like burial itself, I think, tends to feel, a little bit of that like ritual that I think I can like, touches something in my heart or like does something for me and like that all coming together for that like final moment. But like the hours where you're all just like hanging out or like the funeral, like the church services, like all that stuff has always been like this weird, contrived thing that like never feels like it's rooted in anything that like is significant to me personally. that's not to say it's not for other people. So overall, I just feel like, There's always this like dread of like dealing with getting through that part and like anxiety about being a, you know, but typically all the funerals I've been to have been pretty much the same, so they're all like the Catholic model of funerals. I think every funeral I've been to, honestly.

Patrick:

know? So they're all, they're all kind of like the Catholic model of funerals. I think like every funeral has been different. I would say there's the experience of the immediate family,

Asher:

Yes.

Patrick:

and then there's the experience of the, non immediate family. And both of them, for me, because I've been on both sides. Have you been on both sides of that?

Asher:

Yeah, I mean My grandpa was like the most immediate, but we were basically treated as immediate family.

Patrick:

Experience there is the funeral for my father and in a lot of ways I was one of the centers of attention at that funeral because I was only 14 when my dad died and I was by far the youngest and being on that side of the funeral for me was a lot tougher than being on the other side, just because if you're just there to, give your respects, and I hate to put it in these crass of terms, but if you're there to pay your respects, you can get in and you can

Asher:

can get out. Oh yeah,

Patrick:

right? If you are immediate family, you are there for the long haul. And it's not just because. the time that it takes, right, which it is, I mean, especially if you're talking about the calling hours the day before the funeral, typically the day before the funeral, the emotional toll of all of these people coming to you. And everybody being, for the most part, awkward because they don't know what to say. Like, so what do you say to a 14 year old kid whose father just

Asher:

died That died relatively suddenly.

Patrick:

died relatively suddenly? Because I think I told you my dad was diagnosed with cancer 16 days before he died. we had very, barely any time to register what was going on. And Someone asked me one time said what do you say to it was somebody was going to a funeral and like didn't have a lot of experience and said you know and asked me what do you say to somebody in that situation I said just say I'm sorry for your life because they're not going to remember what you said to that because they've got depending on the size of the funeral and the number of friends the person had, They could have hundreds of people coming up to them and which, and they're not going to remember. And because on top of everything else, they're going through the grieving process. So it doesn't really matter as long as you go up there and say some platitudes, you're probably okay. That's true for the other side too, Is, don't overthink what you're saying to somebody when they're grieving. Cause as long as you're nice and as long as you're polite. it's not going to be something that sticks in their head and that they're going to, either, either remember or hold against you.

Asher:

I mean, most people, I think, I don't, I shouldn't say most people. I think a lot of people. in that moment of calling hours and stuff, there's probably like a lot of like disassociation going on because nobody can sit in grief that continuously for that like long, like most people there, your touch with grief is like, it comes in moments and you want to sit in it in moments. So when you're like being asked to like show up in a grieving space, like your body is Probably taking you in your mind, like taking you other

Patrick:

places. It's

Asher:

like you are not hearing what people are saying to you. You're just there because it's the right thing to do, because that's what our society tells everybody to do. and so like, I think, to your point, like, what you, it's, you know, that's why there's, like you said, there's certain things that we all just like say, because nothing, What matters is that everyone's showing up for you and that's what matters, you could all

Patrick:

called paying your respects.

Asher:

you could all fucking sit there in silence actually and the fact that all those people showed up for you and your loved one That had passed that's the part that matters You know the receiving line of everyone coming and hugging you and saying I'm sorry for your loss Like probably could do without that part, if we're rethinking funerals, I think that's the stuff that I had mentioned before that it's like, why don't we rethink this and why don't we think through, what are the parts that are meaningful and can we all like show up for, grieving people in a way that actually matters. Maybe it is, sitting in silence, because the words don't matter at that time. They just don't,

Patrick:

so the wake or the calling hours or one piece of it, what is your, what do you think? And I haven't looked this up and I'm sure there's some etiquette behind What is the decision making process you have for when you go to a funeral and when, when you feel obligated to go to a funeral versus when you don't? Because how many times have like a friend's mother died and you're like, okay, I'm not, it wasn't that, I'm not that close to the person, but do you have a decision making process that you go through when you think about, okay, do I need to, A, do I need to go period? And B, can I just go to the calling hours versus going to the funeral itself? what's your thought

Asher:

Yeah, and that, this is the, this is, again, why I think this conversation is so important for us to have as a society because there isn't a clear, I, so I think for me If I am close to the person who died, obviously I would be at their funeral. Or if the person who is experiencing the loss is somebody that I'm close to, those two are like for sure solids that like, I'm going to go, however, there have been a few times, like there was a friend, that they had a relative pass away and I was like pretty intertwined in this family. and I just assumed it would be like appropriate for me to go to this funeral because again, this was like one of my very close friends and it was a family member, and I'm glad that I had them ask their family because their family would like, didn't want me there. They were like, because sometimes they want just close family. And I think in circumstances where there's things that are not culturally acceptable in our country, like suicide or. drug overdose and things like that. Like people can get a little bit squirrelly about like who's coming and who's not coming to those as well. and so like my like general rule of thumb is I generally try to check in with the person that I'm like close to that this is happening to and being like, Hey, is it helpful for you? Is it supportive for me to be there? do you have a preference? Is it, depending on their answer, they might be like, I don't care either way, and if I can like intuitively feel that, for me being there, then I'll go. If they're like, yeah, my family wants to keep it close and, tight circled or whatever. I'm like, okay, cool. but it is like an awkward thing, I think, to like navigate, whether or not you're like going to these things sometimes, especially when it's not direct family or, but even like I had, um, This is like a story, but I think it is important because when I was a humane officer, I like had whatever terms you want to use, I hate the words rescue and save and all those terms. I hate them. But there was this dog basically that I had acquired through humane investigations and she was like very important to me. Her name was Jane. Jane and I had a very difficult time getting her somewhere safe, okay? long, long story short, I found this like perfect human for her that like literally saved her in the nick of time and got her into this home. I stayed in touch with this woman for years. She like loved me. I don't really know why. Like, she didn't have a lot of, we didn't have like a close relationship. We didn't know anything about each other, but just through this dog, right? Jane was a pain in the ass for her. the adopter's name was Kim, but Kim was like this beautiful person. And she like had me over for dinner one time just so I could like see Jane again. And like, she just like always stayed in touch, but she like genuinely cared about my personal life too. It was like very invested in me as a human. I found out like, this was, probably three years ago now, one of her family members reached out to me and they were like, Hey, I just wanted to let you know that, that Kim just passed away. we decided to euthanize Jane when she passed and, just wanted you to know because we know that both of them were, like, pretty important to you, I was so fucked up and I was working, like, really long hours and I remember I asked them, like, what are her I, looked up her services or something and I was so fucking conflicted because I, like, really wanted to be there for her funeral, and she lived, like, far. She lived, like, you know, 50 minutes away or something. so the services were far. Basically, it was, like, really inconvenient for me to get there. I didn't end up making it, honestly, but I was like, I was like really upset about it for like a while. and so that's, what's interesting to me is I'm like, I really didn't know this person very well, and just as a disclosure for people that are upset that the dog got euthanized, Jane was a very difficult dog and honestly, like beyond Kim being her adopter at this point, Jane was probably, she was a Rottweiler too. So she was a big girl when I had her, she was. We, I think we thought around then she was already like six, so she was older. She was up there. She was probably like close to 12 at this point and had like severe behavior issues like this. Kim was her

Patrick:

only child, and

Asher:

and, and Kim had given her a beautiful life. But, here's the, this person that I like barely knew, but we were just connected through this animal and this like beautiful thing. And I wanted to be there. I wanted to like say goodbye to her. And it did make it hard for me for a while. It's like, and actually the other day just like was flipping through my contacts and I saw her phone number. It says Kim Jane's adopter in my phone. And it hit me, hit me in like a weird spot where I was like, I got like sad about it again, that I like missed that opportunity to like be there at her funeral, you know, but, um, you know, But I don't know. I mean, would the family have been weird if I showed up at her funeral? Like, who the fuck is this girl? You know what I mean? who knows? I don't know. But, for me, it felt important to be there, but I don't know that the family would have, wanted me there, it's, a hard thing to, like, Navigate. All we can do is like our best. And is anyone really going to be mad if you show up to their, to someone's funeral? Probably not. Probably not. It's probably if you're ever like on indecisive about it, like probably go, cause what would be worse is that they're like, man, it really would have meant a lot to me if you would have been at so and so's funeral, you know, um, down the line. But I think most people at this point get that. It's like, it's a weird thing and a hard thing to navigate, but I don't know. What about you?

Patrick:

that like, it's a weird thing hard thing to navigate, you know? But, I don't know, what about you?

Asher:

Okay. I understand, no problem. Yeah.

Patrick:

But the other two, one, I think I might have gone to both of them had the circumstances not been different, but they both died tragically, which kind of changed things. So the first one, and I'm trying to think chronologically, which one came first. I'm not really sure. So I had a cousin. I guess we'll start with her. she lived in Chicago, and, I'm just, I gotta say it, but she was hit by a bus. And,

Asher:

Yikes.

Patrick:

Yeah. And she was,

Asher:

died on impact, hit by a bus or like hit by a bus. Okay. You'll get there. Okay.

Patrick:

She did not die on impact. Yeah, she did not die pleasantly. it was a city bus, it was a Chicago city bus. And the family sued the city, and the city's lawyers, their argument was that, so the story goes, this is the story goes,

Asher:

Like the story per your family? yes. Okay, okay.

Patrick:

so the story goes, is that the city of Chicago's lawyers their argument was that my cousin was drunk. Which, fair, she may have been, but she was also on the sidewalk.

Asher:

Okay. Yeah. That doesn't matter then. She wasn't like drunkenly running through the street. Yes,

Patrick:

Yes, the bus literally, Jump the curb and hit her. So

Asher:

the

Patrick:

yeah. Oh yeah. And yeah. So the, they, they, the family got a lot of money out of that. so we went up to her funeral up in Detroit. And the one thing I remember about the funeral that I just loved, and this was something that for me was. So comforting and not, I can't say comforting. It was just like right up my alley. She was buried in a, in a Detroit Red Wings

Asher:

Hell. Yeah,

Patrick:

right? Cause so many times they, they put them in their best suit or whatever. I don't want to be buried in that. I, I will go to amazing lengths in

Asher:

life Yeah. Amazing lengths.

Patrick:

Amazing lengths to not have to wear

Asher:

a suit. Okay? Wait, quick side note. We went out to dinner the other night and Patrick told us that he, we were like, Patrick, you look really nice tonight. And he was like, thank you. And then, acknowledge that he has not one, not two, not three. But seven of the same shirt that he was wearing.

Patrick:

Correct! It's

Asher:

It's definitely one of my favorite facts about, you know,

Patrick:

I multiples of every shirt that I

Asher:

it was a precious little cotton, t shirt that had a few buttons at the top and it's like olive green.

Patrick:

Correct. So And when one wears out I go and buy another one. Yes. So So, the idea of my family putting me in a

Asher:

a suit for the rest

Patrick:

of eternity. So let me put this on the record right

Asher:

haunt them forever.

Patrick:

So help me

Asher:

God, if

Patrick:

if my family

Asher:

put you in one of those seven

Patrick:

doesn't put me in, I just bought a new Twilight Zone t

Asher:

shirt that's

Patrick:

sitting over there, right? If they don't put

Asher:

me in

Patrick:

like a Twilight Zone t shirt. And a pair of sweatpants.

Asher:

my god, I want

Patrick:

I will haunt them until, until they are ghosts.

Asher:

I want you in like a wrestling t shirt or like a horror t shirt. That's what I want you in. And sweats.

Patrick:

yes, exactly. Do not, do, so help me

Asher:

God. And then we'll be, we'll be catapulting you into space.

Patrick:

Oh yeah, we talked about that. Yeah, I'm probably going to be cremated anyway and launched into

Asher:

Yeah, so it won't, but when you go in for cremation,

Patrick:

better be in one of

Asher:

Yeah, absolutely. A hundred

Patrick:

do not put me in my We put him in his sunday finest. I'm usually winnie the pooh in it and a looney tunes t shirt on a sunday What are you talking about? sunday's finest

Asher:

Oh my God, I'm dying.

Patrick:

Stop with that bullshit

Asher:

If Brit was here, she would be like cremate me naked you fucks.

Patrick:

Yes, exactly.

Asher:

like I'm conflicted about it because I do like obviously I'm wearing red lipstick right now for us fucking sitting here doing a podcast with Your dog. No one will ever see it. Like I like

Patrick:

For a, for an audio medium, you gotta look good.

Asher:

I mean I was at brunch part of this but I do like to like I do like to, dress up sometimes. But I think my dress up is still not what people would describe as, Sunday best. I, here's what I, my dress up is, a t shirt and a blazer and some, fun shoes. that's as far as they can go. Otherwise, put me in a flannel.

Patrick:

Yeah. My, my, my, my Twitch hoodie is my formal wear.

Asher:

yeah, yeah, yeah. You wear that one a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

Patrick:

I'm wear it to work.

Asher:

You wear that to work?

Patrick:

every day? Almost every day. Okay. But in my defense, there's no one there.

Asher:

Everyone works from home.

Patrick:

I'm just hanging out by myself most days. Yeah. So it doesn't really

Asher:

doesn't really matter.

Patrick:

But anyway, yeah, that's my formal

Asher:

formal wear. Yeah. Alright, well, we'll make sure we put that in your will too, along with the catapulting. What's that company called again?

Patrick:

Celestra, or something like that. Or maybe that might be a erectile

Asher:

dysfunction I think it's Or maybe you just combine the two, I dunno,

Patrick:

the other long distance funeral I went to, And this was bizarre. I-+had, Let me back up. So you probably know this about me, but our

Asher:

I don't know. I feel like I don't know anything about

Patrick:

probably know this. I belong to a fraternity when I

Asher:

oh, yes. This is one of the fun facts that I'm shocked by. Shook.

Patrick:

yes. I was a frat boy. Now, the fraternity that I belong to was infamously, or famously I'll go with infamously. We were the outcasts and we were the group of people who didn't fit into. any of the other fraternities. And I've told people this, our fraternity, at least when I went there, was made up of three different subgroups, okay? And you can guess of the three subgroups which one I

Asher:

I can't wait

Patrick:

Subgroup A were all of the band people. Subgroup B were all the fundamentalist Christians. Subgroup C or three. I don't

Asher:

I don't know. I don't

Patrick:

how I'm doing. We're smart ass history and political science

Asher:

is. There it is.

Patrick:

Okay, you got it. And somehow the our three groups coexisted.

Asher:

Wow. That is, that's also

Patrick:

Yeah, somehow we coexisted and somehow I coexisted with a bunch

Asher:

Exactly. Exactly.

Patrick:

when I was a senior I had, if you don't know about how fraternities work, usually when you're a junior or a senior, you sponsor somebody to join the fraternity. You become what's called a pledge father, right? No, not a groomer!

Asher:

Oh. Don't be Marguerite Taylor Greene calling me a groomer. I don't know.

Patrick:

so, but no, I was a pledge fighter, and I had a, I had a pledge who I brought into the fraternity. and I won't name his name because I don't, because it's, like I said, it's a tragic story. I graduated, and then he graduated two years later, and then like a year after that, he died.

Asher:

he And I forgot that's where this started, so I'm a little bit surprised.

Patrick:

this guy who was my pledged son, died, and the way he died was, he died in a tornado.

Asher:

Oh, fuck.

Patrick:

West, he lived in Western Ohio, I forget which city he lived

Asher:

in. Okay.

Patrick:

And there was a tornado warning, and he had come home. He had driven home and he lived with a couple. He lived with a, a, a man and a woman, another guy and a girlfriend. And they got into the closet to shelter and what, either the guy or the girl, I don't remember which one, told him that his mother had called. This was before cell phones were ubiquitous. This is like in the early 2000s and said, Hey, your mom called wanted to make sure you were okay. And he got out of the closet to go call his mother. And as soon as he got out of the club, out of the closet, the tornado hit the house and wiped out the house. the guy and the girl survived the guy was, was. was horribly injured because he like covered her with

Asher:

with his

Patrick:

but my pledge son ended up dying. the house just

Asher:

on him.

Patrick:

and he was literally the only person in Ohio that died that night.

Asher:

died.

Patrick:

So, obviously when we found out about this the next day, everybody who knew we all made the pilgrimage out to his, out to his funeral. And. two things were odd about it, and one, I just, it goes into the category of how do you make the decision. So I didn't go to the funeral proper because it was such a long drive, so I just went to the calling hours. Me and my buddy went to the calling hours together. We drove out there. The first thing is, they had an open casket.

Asher:

open casket.

Patrick:

And he was not, did not look

Asher:

So interesting when people make that choice. Yes.

Patrick:

and that was interesting to me. Because on, I can see it both ways. I can see it, on one hand, you want to, you want people to be able to view him and see him for the last time.

Asher:

last time.

Patrick:

But on the other hand, it was obvious that it was not good. What had happened, right? there was a lot of damage to his face. and I just, and I'm just curious, because I don't know the answer, because I've never been in this situation, what is the decision making process that goes into whether you're going to do an open casket or not, in a situation like that, where it's really, I think I probably would have gone with a closed casket, but the problem with the closed casket, now that I think about it is, you obviously, if it's closed casket, people are going to think the absolute worst, right? If you've got an open casket, right? Yeah, it was bad, but it's not as bad as you would have thought if it was a closed casket. I just don't know that.

Asher:

Yeah. It's like an interesting thing all over. So my grandpa. actually required that it was, I just remembered this as you were saying it, I like completely forgot about this. It was an open casket for immediate family. And then he wanted it closed for when the rest of the people were there. Because it was like a pride thing, I think,

Patrick:

So you can get a, so you can go the middle route.

Asher:

Yeah, of like doing both, but like, Yeah, I, that, it is a fascinating tradition to me in general because I don't, like for me, my coworker and I, like I've talked about this a few times actually because he had transported a dog that had passed away, like to the crematorial place, which is a little bit further and he was saying how like while he was driving he had like the little body bag thing like open next to him and her head was out and he was like, had the windows down for her and stuff like that. And like, because for him, he was like, if there's any part of her like spirit that is like in this body, and I'm sorry if I, if he's listening to this and I'm miss telling the story, this is what I, this is what I remembered in my heart from it was these were the her last moments and like honoring her and her life and this type of thing. And so like, and I do think it's weird how much our culture separates like dead physical bodies from the experience of dying and grief. and then we present this like very sterilized version. So I think like the, the, the, the, Raw organic version of like when something dies like obviously I had mentioned the previous podcast like being a euthanasia technician you're still petting that animal and stuff after you know that they're past because there you know if you have any spiritual belief like you want to think that you're providing comfort and also For yourself, it's comforting to like say goodbye. However, you know when my cat died I like I definitely kissed him after he was dead and I held him after he was dead and stuff And So that part of it feels very cathartic to me. It feels very like healing and like natural to be a part of this process of something being dead. And like, I've even seen rituals where because the decomp process is not like what people think it is, it's doesn't actually, it doesn't I can't remember the logistics, but basically like this, than intelligence that I follow, she was talking about when their dog died, that they like cleaned up its body and like literally left places his body in like this way that was like sanitary still, but that they could like ease him out of their life. those types of things, like they're so faux pas to our culture, but that actually makes sense to me because like you have this being that is in your life that you're like trying to like phase out. I love it. and giving your body and mind time to, like, catch up to themselves, But the, like, sterilized version of, re presenting the dead body, I would guess is coming from that type of thought process. But it's interesting that, that, keeping an animal's body around to, say goodbye to it is, like, so fucked up to so many people. But then, like, re presenting it, even though I would guess it's coming from the same, And that's the whole thought process of closing that chapter and that type of thing is what's accepted. But that feels weird to me. Like it feels weird to me to like re present a dead body and to like, you know, and they never look

Patrick:

look So, to me, it causes more

Asher:

me it causes more damage. I'm like, I don't want to see the embalmed version of my loved one. That actually fucks me up way more than just never seeing them

Patrick:

the first thing people are going to say is,

Asher:

they look like themselves,

Patrick:

Oh, they, he looks like himself or he doesn't look

Asher:

so weird. They did a really good job. It's so weird.

Patrick:

they're not focusing on the person. They're focusing on the artistry of the

Asher:

undertaker. It's so fucking weird. It's so fucking weird. I will never understand it. I really, truly don't understand it. And again, there it serves a purpose. Obviously, it became a ritual for a reason, but for me, I personally am like, can we question this part of the ritual? Maybe it works if it works for some people. I would love to hear from those people. I would love to hear from. people who like really benefit from the funeral process beyond it just being a ritual where people show up for you. I would like love to hear from people about like what resonates with them out of genuine curiosity, genuine empathy, compassion, all those things. I would love to know why people respond well to it. To me, it has never been. Again, like always for me, bringing people together with intention is what makes meaning for anything, whether it's a wedding or a funeral. But anytime we're just like doing these things because we're going through the motions, it like loses meaning for me. And honestly, often does more damage than good for me personally,

Patrick:

so these calling hours I went to for my buddy, that was only the first thing that was odd

Asher:

Oh God. I didn't realize there was more. I, sorry. Oh my God.

Patrick:

The second thing that was

Asher:

Yeah.

Patrick:

not about the funeral, but it was calling hours. It was the strangest funeral home I have ever been in

Asher:

Why? What do you mean

Patrick:

It was filled top to bottom with taxidermy.

Asher:

No,

Patrick:

And when I

Asher:

so weird that you said that. Cause I was literally going to talk about taxidermy, like compare, like how dead bodies look different, including taxidermy.

Patrick:

It wasn't filled with what you would call tasteful taxidermy. It was filled with what you would call kitschy

Asher:

No. What do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? What does

Patrick:

The one tableau that they had was, and I am not making this up,

Asher:

I want this story to stop

Patrick:

a group of squirrels dressed up like a wedding party. In the same room as the casket

Asher:

And it

Patrick:

And it was filled with stuff like that.

Asher:

because I, it would be like me making fun of the funeral experience. was

Patrick:

not, cause we were out in,

Asher:

in,

Patrick:

We were out in rural Ameri We were out in We were out in Merca. Of

Asher:

course you were in Murka.

Patrick:

This wasn't run by the people who own, Cleveland Curiosities or anything.

Asher:

Yeah,

Patrick:

This was unironic. Filled with the

Asher:

what else is in there?

Patrick:

terrible taxidermy. it was literally all stuff like that. It was all animals posed

Asher:

in like

Patrick:

human positions, with a pipe in their mouth or whatever. Yeah, it was,

Asher:

Can we go visit this funeral home?

Patrick:

if we can find, if I can remember where it was. It was like out in Willard, Ohio or something like that. We probably, we could probably Google

Asher:

We're gonna need to

Patrick:

obituary is probably online somewhere.

Asher:

we're gonna need to take a field trip

Patrick:

And I mean, it might,

Asher:

What if we can get these people to do an interview for our

Patrick:

and go film it and show like the strangest

Asher:

so because we talked about interviewing funeral people but those are the funeral people I want to interview

Patrick:

but What? And I keep on going back to the same, the decision making

Asher:

How did that happen?

Patrick:

Who

Asher:

Was it the only one in town?

Patrick:

it, but I'm not talking about their decision to use that funeral home, but I'm talking about the funeral home's decision to fill their funeral home up with kitschy taxidermy.

Asher:

It's like, It's like, supposed to

Patrick:

supposed to be a place to help people through their grieving

Asher:

process.

Patrick:

to display your bad taste in decorations. it was so weird. And it was so distracting because here we are, we're trying to pay homage to a friend who died and we're like, we've got a, we've got dancing squirrels. Yeah.

Asher:

So

Patrick:

that was an odd experience,

Asher:

odd experience. But,

Patrick:

the

Asher:

funeral

Patrick:

ever had at a

Asher:

a

Patrick:

So this is the one I've saved for

Asher:

last. Because

Patrick:

this funeral was by far one of the strangest experiences I've ever had in my life. Strange and hysterical at the same time. I had

Asher:

your pick. You here. So, my mother My mother had a

Patrick:

So

Asher:

past tense.

Patrick:

mother had a cousin, had, past

Asher:

in

Patrick:

a cousin who lived in Kent, Ohio. Now we did not go to the calling hours for this one. We went to the actual funeral. So it was me, my mother, and my Annie M.

Asher:

makes the quilts.

Patrick:

Annie M. makes the quilts. And, So we went to this funeral, and I knew we were in trouble. So I'm trying to think of when this was. This was probably, I don't know, somewhere around the year 2000, somewhere in that

Asher:

year. Okay.

Patrick:

We went to a funeral for her cousin who died in Kent, Ohio. And I knew we were in trouble when we pulled up to the church, and in the front yard of the church, were little cardboard

Asher:

No.

Patrick:

for all the murdered babies

Asher:

Come on Patrick. Who

Patrick:

are, were victims of the evil pro choice

Asher:

Come on.

Patrick:

Seriously. So I knew that this was

Asher:

not the right thing to do.

Patrick:

But I was there to go to our earlier discussion about this, the decision of when you go to a funeral and when you don't, this was for my mom. I didn't go, I didn't even know what this guy looked like, right? I didn't know, have any idea who this

Asher:

this person was.

Patrick:

I was there to support my mom and my aunt. So we go into the, into the church. Now, I don't know about anybody else's experiences with funerals in the last 20, 25, 30 years. People don't get drenched in black anymore. No. Right? People dress like normal. Because Yeah, exactly. These people did not get this memo. The entire place was just black. Everybody was in black. The casket was in the aisle of the church. Obviously this is a Roman Catholic

Asher:

Catholic church.

Patrick:

in the aisle, draped in a black shroud. And you're like, Oh my

Asher:

In the 2000s. In

Patrick:

the 2000s. So we sit down. And we soon realize that this is a Catholic church that did not accept Vatican II.

Asher:

I don't know what that means.

Patrick:

I will explain to you and the listeners what that means. Vatican II was a council in the, I think 1960s, where they modernized the liturgy.

Asher:

Actually, now that you're saying this, the magician I previously mentioned, I think has spoken on this before. Okay. Continue. Sorry.

Patrick:

They modernized the liturgy, because prior to that, the mass was said in

Asher:

I was just going to say, because I think this came up because I went to Latin mass with them one time. Yes. Okay.

Patrick:

the mass was said in Latin, the priest didn't look at the, At the, the folks in the pews, the priest always stood with their back to the whole thing. These folks did not accept Vatican too. And they ran this funeral like it was 1935. The priest was in a full black casket with the little bunny ear or little Mickey Mouse ear

Asher:

I'm

Patrick:

I'm sure there's some technical name for

Asher:

that.

Patrick:

little hat they wear, but I'm going to say the Mickey Mouse hat.

Asher:

It did the entire

Patrick:

Did the entire thing in Latin. all the music, like organ music, it was just dirge after dirge after dirge. And what I'm about to tell you, Asher, I am not making up. God's honest truth. What I am about to tell you happened during this ceremony. The altar boys come out. right? and the priest is using incense, to bless the thing. They used so much incense it set off the smoke detectors in the church and The priest sent the altar boy to the court like to the side of the altar to open and close the Door to try to fan out the incense smoke because it the incense was just billowing in there

Asher:

my god.

Patrick:

it was We, all three of us were like this is the what in the world is going on here mean it was like stepping back in

Asher:

It was

Patrick:

and my mother told me that she was like, yeah, this was what funerals were like 70 years

Asher:

ago. She was

Patrick:

like if I went to a funeral when I was a kid This is what it was like, Hey, I like it.

Asher:

of a common experience.

Patrick:

Yeah. But, oh, and the priest, it was an Irish priest. And when I say it was an Irish priest, I don't mean it was a you and me, Irish priest. it was a brogue from Dublin, Irish priest, So saying Latin in a, in an Irish accent.

Asher:

sounds really beautiful actually.

Patrick:

Yeah, no, it was not. It was, mean, it was so morose.

Asher:

Oh my

Patrick:

It just, like I said, it just, everything was black. I think the altar boys were in white, if I remember correctly, they had like their white things on, but everything else was just black. the covering for the altar, black, the shroud over the, over the casket, black. Everybody in the seats, except for the three of us, it was almost like when we walked in, you could hear like the record scratch. Should everybody turn their head? Because we were wearing primary colors or, you know, we were wearing

Asher:

something. You guys, you guys brought, you guys brought the rainbow to the funeral. Exactly. And people were like, who the fuck are these assholes,

Patrick:

And the thing is, my NEM was a pretty conservative Catholic and even she was like, this is, this

Asher:

a little extra nuts. So a little extra you guys.

Patrick:

But this story does have a good.

Asher:

It does,

Patrick:

have a good ending. And you know what? I forgot. I left

Asher:

something. What?

Patrick:

I left a person out of it. And the only reason I know I forgot the first because of what happened

Asher:

afterwards. After, okay.

Patrick:

my, my, my cousin was with us

Asher:

Oh, you did say that in the beginning and then you forgot as you told

Patrick:

Yeah. So it was, it was me, my mom, my NEM and my cousin.

Asher:

Okay.

Patrick:

So afterwards we went to my mother's cousin's house, the sister of the guy who died.

Asher:

who

Patrick:

And she had an absolutely wonderful, beautiful, just fantastic golden

Asher:

And me

Patrick:

And me and my cousin, after that experience, we got absolutely shit faced spent the entire, like,

Asher:

Just snuggling

Patrick:

people. All these people around us are like, let's talk about what's his, I don't even remember what the guy's name

Asher:

Don't remember.

Patrick:

Said, Oh, let's talk. Remember, you know, remember his memory and pray to him. And my cousin and I, we are hammered.

Asher:

the floor playing

Patrick:

playing with the golden retriever. Like, come here. Let me see

Asher:

be. See those cheeks. Listen, that dead cousin was like, you guys are doing it

Patrick:

Yeah, exactly

Asher:

love that dog. Live life, man. Cause pretty soon you're going to be where I'm at.

Patrick:

this woman who owned the golden retriever, you want to talk about loving your dog. She, I don't remember what kind of car she had, but she didn't allow the dog in the car,

Asher:

so

Patrick:

so she bought a little

Asher:

That the would

Patrick:

she would tow around

Asher:

and she would tow around town. With the dog. With the dog. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Patrick:

yeah, so that, that was the, that's the postscript To the uber Catholic funeral that we went to, getting hammered and played with a dog. So there are certain common themes in my life, getting hammered and playing with dogs, general,

Asher:

a solid

Patrick:

general thread throughout my life.

Asher:

Same. Thinking of all these funeral experiences and like, obviously there are other cultures which like I know we want to get into in the future of like how other people say goodbye to their dying loved ones, but in like, you know, Irish Catholic tradition, we'll just talk about because that's what you and I are familiar

Patrick:

and I

Asher:

I'm like, I don't want to fucking go out like that. I don't want people to Again, it's not intentional to me. And so like, when we're thinking about it, I'm just like, what do you, what do you think, like, how could this look different? if obviously there's, There's difficult, we talked about this before, like the difficulty with the options for what to do with like body care when humans die, that you don't have a lot of options, but like, as far as coming together in spaces to like talk about funerals and to like have funeral, like what else do you think that could look like that would like potentially be more meaningful? And I'd love to, you know, our four listeners, I'd love to hear from like those people too, like what they think, but I would love to have more conversations about that. do you have any thoughts on what? what you would want to happen when you died, like how people would gather around you or like what, Or like what feels good to you, like when you're going, especially because you have your dad is such a solid, huge example. I know it was a long time ago, but like, can you think of something that would have felt better for you or like more supportive for the grieving process?

Patrick:

For my dad, I think my dad's experience was good, ideal for him because my dad had just oodles and oodles of friends. Yeah. My dad was For his, his entire life was the life of the party. Every, everybody loved my dad. My dad was an extremely popular human being. So his funeral was, his funeral and calling hours were absolutely

Asher:

Yeah.

Patrick:

So I think that was good for him. I do not have that level of popularity.

Asher:

Sure you do.

Patrick:

no I don't.

Asher:

But the people who do love you, love you that

Patrick:

that's correct. I think I would be more inclined to something smaller, something more intimate. I mentioned this, I think on the first episode, my mother has told us that she doesn't want anything. She just wants to be cremated and put in the ground and

Asher:

Move

Patrick:

move along. She doesn't want, she does not, literally does not want anything and she has been super explicit about it. I don't think I'll be that antisocial when I die. I don't want to be that level of, of a loner. But, I also don't need anything big, fancy.

Asher:

other than the catapult into space Yeah, yeah

Patrick:

the money on the, the calling hours and stuff. Just launch me into

Asher:

But what do you think for the grieving like when your dad died? Was that a supportive experience for you?

Patrick:

Yes, because I had. Both my immediate and my extended family around me. And at that point in time, I was a lot closer to my extended family than I am now. Just as you get

Asher:

Yeah, life happens. Life happens, and

Patrick:

and people pass away and, people move to other parts of the country. But at that point in time, we were a lot closer to my immediate family than we are now. or I'm sorry, to my extended family than we are now. So it was nice to have my extended family around. And the one thing I'll note is that most of them were there when my dad died. my, when my dad died, it was standing room only in my dad's hospital room There were a lot of people there because we knew going into that weekend that he, he wasn't gonna, he wasn't making it out of the weekend. his brothers and sisters made their way down to be with him, when he passed. And he was the first member of the family to

Asher:

Yeah.

Patrick:

First member of his immediate family to die. I don't want to minimize what anybody else went through, right? What, you know, when anybody else died. But He died before his mother and father did, right? so that funeral, my grandmother and grandfather were

Asher:

Right? And

Patrick:

and they died and they both died within a year or so of my dad dying. it was about a two or three year period of time where my dad, two of my uncles, my grandmother and grandfather all died. And my dad was the first one to go. So that was, it was, so it was

Asher:

a cataclysmic

Patrick:

everybody involved, especially because he was so young. He was only 54 years old, which is scary because that's only six years older than I am now.

Asher:

than

Patrick:

my, my brother's two years older than my father was when he

Asher:

he died.

Patrick:

And that,

Asher:

It's crazy. Yeah. It does.

Patrick:

and you look at my brother and think about somebody two years younger than him dying. Um, it's

Asher:

Yeah.

Patrick:

So for me, it's, that was a good thing to have an entire family around and the fact that I was very close to them. I'm not really, I don't have any kids. I don't have any in

Asher:

laws.

Patrick:

I have a small immediate family. I, I don't see a situation where You know, in the future, having something big to celebrate my life is gonna be beneficial to

Asher:

something small.

Patrick:

Just something small, few, few close friends, and Not that I care! I'm gonna be, because I have the benefit of being

Asher:

well, and that's what, that's what I'm talking about. what is supportive for the grieving? It's great to honor what the dead wanted, like they're being respectful, having integrity, like all that stuff matters. But I think like we've lost touch a little bit because there's so much focus on that which is why what the funeral industry is like exploited, make sure you upgrade like we talked about to that fancy, coffin for your mom because she, birthed you from her loins, you know, But I'm like, what about the fucking people who are alive still and are grieving? Like, is this, you know, and it might be like, my dad might listen to this and be like, listen, all those funerals I went to for my family, like they did do wonders for me. I'm not speaking to other people's experiences, you know? But again, for me, I'm just like, curious about if, there are other ways to gather around grief. Cause like, I think about like what happens when somebody or, you know, an animal or a person, they are really close to. Dies like my first, especially cause I guess like the way that is helpful for me to think about it. Maybe that's why I've spent so much time thinking about it is because we don't do with, animals, what we do with people. And you, you know, we talked about in the last episode, how like, for some of us, like our pets are very close to, being human connections for us as far as level of like grief and love goes, and, I think like speaking of that, Kelly is panting into the microphone right now. so like along those lines, like when, some of my like closest pets have died, there wasn't a funeral to figure out how to like you like that you want, you know, we're talking about you. Yeah. Um, a funeral to like process. You know what. their death is. So you have to find other ways to like grieve and comfort yourself. So I think because, and because I've helped so many community members do that, like my line of work and stuff. When, like for me, when an animal has died, there is like a little bit of like, you know, cause you're like in shock. Like you're like, holy shit, I can't believe this thing that has been a part of my life is like no longer here.

Patrick:

Yeah.

Asher:

And So like gathering in close proximity to that doesn't always feel good because you're like still trying to like come to terms with that reality, which I know we always have like, you know, there's usually like five days to a week, before you actually have like funeral and calling hours and all that stuff for three to five days, whatever.

Patrick:

Yep.

Asher:

But I think, for me, I'm always like, I need somebody who I'm very close with to be with me at that time, near that time, and probably for a couple of days after that time, or at least, checking in with me, and then, and then gathering, gathering, like, two weeks after it's happened, and you've had time to, like, process the shock and like, and then really feel the grief. Cause I think sometimes you're not even in the grief yet when funerals happen because you're busy planning. we talked about that. Like, there's basically like you're just, you're thrown into all these decisions, figuring out how to, You know, the money stuff comes up the bills like that, accounts that need to be closed out, like all the weird shit that happens that no one fucking talks about. So you're not even like ready to like honor their life or to, you know, so I'm just like, what if we gathered a month after someone died, what if it was like a celebration of their life? Wouldn't that be really meaningful? I think I mentioned my cousin saying to me like, how no one like bringing up her father who passed, being really painful because she didn't want people to forget him, what if it was later down the line?

Patrick:

That's, that's not a bad idea, just because the family has so many

Asher:

There's so many practical things you

Patrick:

during those first few

Asher:

weeks. Hmm.

Patrick:

Right to throw. Oh, by the way, you've got to organize a

Asher:

a party. You have to make, you have to party plan. You have

Patrick:

be a party

Asher:

sure everyone knows time and date. And get

Patrick:

that done in the next, in the next week.

Asher:

It's crazy. It's crazy to me. It's crazy to me. And I think, when I think of like how I personally, you know, we talked about our differences in like spirituality. your non existent and my like loosely defined. And. for me, there is like, it always comes after the fact, like after the funeral stuff. And, that's when like the magic of figuring out how to integrate this person not being in my life, my grandpa was like huge for me. And that came in like a very symbolic way for me that I won't share because it's like very personal, but like, That happened over a few months of time where like I integrated this like kind of magical thinking or magical practice into my heart to like comfort me about my grandpa still being with me and to me it's real and it's still real to this day and nothing will change that for me. But I wonder if if that was a socially acceptable thing or there was a way to bring back that like magic of. these it sounds so cheesy to talk about it, but like the cycles of life and like, you know, I don't know a better way to say it, but like there is beauty, you know, we know there's like this beauty to like this life and death process. And like, when it all like happens, you're like, that is not where you're at. You are not there. You're in the fucking thick of the pain, the shock. And like we said, these like life, the bullshit that you have to like fucking deal with. So it just seems weird to me that we've always like, Honored the dying in such close proximity to like it actually happening, I don't know

Patrick:

proximity like happening, know, I don't

Asher:

Oh

Patrick:

Said here's the money. I'm buying the drinks everything just everybody go out

Asher:

Have a good time Yeah, be together

Patrick:

together.

Asher:

in your grief.

Patrick:

don't you know, just do this for me do have a party on me one

Asher:

How beautiful is that? to me, that was probably so meaningful, because like the intention was like, you guys gather,

Patrick:

correct

Asher:

you guys gather however you want

Patrick:

isn't about it's not about me. It's about you

Asher:

guys being okay. Yeah. And that's that's what I'm like, that's exactly what I mean. like that's. Who, I think that could look like different for, that could be different for everybody, but I just think like challenging these like rituals and stuff, or just finding like it's fine if they have to happen, but then can we like think outside the box of like how else to support your grieving people,

Patrick:

here's what I, here's what I want to have happen. You

Asher:

You have a look on your face that I don't trust.

Patrick:

you all want to honor

Asher:

Yeah.

Patrick:

You all want to honor me and get through the

Asher:

Yeah, what do we do?

Patrick:

Once a year, I want y'all to get together and go see the room.

Asher:

Fuck you.

Patrick:

And I will even set aside,

Asher:

I hate you.

Patrick:

will leave an endowment for spoons. I will leave a spoon endowment,

Asher:

Uh,

Patrick:

spoon endowment

Asher:

the least surprised

Patrick:

the next hundred

Asher:

That's so cruel.

Patrick:

I will make sure for the

Asher:

hundred years, who of us is going to be alive and none of us have children.

Patrick:

doesn't matter. I'll have to adjust it for inflation. But, yes, we, I will,

Asher:

the after

Patrick:

or, what I'll do is I will, before I die, I will

Asher:

you'll pay,

Patrick:

a crate of plastic spoons.

Asher:

my God. And prepaid tickets. So people could just go to the

Patrick:

pre paid tickets for everybody, once a year, just

Asher:

go

Patrick:

see the room. Throw your spoons.

Asher:

my God. What's our boy's name? What's our boy that we, he was at the signing of the last one. Brittany's seen him a million times. What's his name? Oh, Craig Es Craig ces. He would, I, we should tell him about this plan. Yes. I think he would love it. Yeah.

Patrick:

And then what one time, just just like the Muslims, one time have to go to Mecca time. You guys have to travel out to Los Angeles and see the room with Tommy.

Asher:

how old is Tommy? He's gotta be older than you.

Patrick:

Oh, Tommy is a lot older, but Tommy's never going to die.

Asher:

he's like, he's like my dog, Eddie. He just lives on forever and

Patrick:

Tommy Wiseau is going to outlive everybody.

Asher:

my god. Everybody.

Patrick:

There could be a nuclear war.

Asher:

ha ha ha

Patrick:

It would be rats, cockroaches, and Tommy Wiseau.

Asher:

Say one of his, say one of his lines. ha ha ha!

Patrick:

I did not hit her. This is bullshit. I did not hit

Asher:

not hit her. So hi Mark,

Patrick:

She's my future wife.

Asher:

Listen, for anyone who is listening to this, if you're one of our four fans, you've been forced probably to go see the room. But if you're not, if you're an adventures listener, I strongly discourage you and encourage you to. Go see the room.

Patrick:

is both the worst thing you've ever seen and the best thing you've ever seen.

Asher:

thing mostly, but it is a fun experience. If you go in person with other, like cult following. I it like, I think we tried to watch it one time like here.

Patrick:

It's just not the

Asher:

Oh God, it was miserable, miserable experience. It's literally the worst thing you'll ever watch. But when you're doing it in a collective, it's a goddamn good time. And especially if Greg is there. He did, uh, the last time we went, he like, did like a talk over, like commentary. And it was actually really fucking funny.

Patrick:

the time before that it was like he did like an opening. It was like peace out. I ain't

Asher:

I'm not fucking watching this.

Patrick:

going out in the lobby.

Asher:

Wow, that is the cruelest parting gift I've ever, I think I could ever expect from you.

Patrick:

Yes, you guys, you know what? To be my, to be my friend, you have

Asher:

That's, that's, I don't know what my parting gift to you guys would be. I don't know.

Patrick:

be better than

Asher:

It's not, I couldn't top it. So I'm not even going to try on this podcast because it won't be nearly as entertaining. It'd be some like hippie shit about making you guys like, Go fucking backpacking together or something. Like you guys would have to do that every year. But

Patrick:

I have a feeling

Asher:

you

Patrick:

people the option between going backpacking and

Asher:

a room. Oh, they would pick the room. Going

Patrick:

backpacking for a weekend versus seeing spending an hour and a half watching the room, they're gonna go, yeah, I would rather go backpacking barefoot.

Asher:

would just make you guys gather at like Hocking Hills once a year, like a glamping experience. Yeah, I think that's what I would make you do. And like bring a dog or seven.

Patrick:

then and then come then go see the see the room

Asher:

That would not be part of my parting gift. No, that's yours. If we were both dead, maybe we can combine them. That our loved ones have to go to Hocking

Patrick:

we just we just have to we just have to have a suicide pact Make sure we both

Asher:

I already made Brittany sign up for that. I told her we have to die on the same day. Remember? Yeah.

Patrick:

like thomas jefferson and john adams

Asher:

sure. I don't know about

Patrick:

You don't know that?

Asher:

Why don't you know? School us. Get learned. Let's get

Patrick:

Thomas Jefferson and John Adams both died on the exact same day, July 4th,

Asher:

1826,

Patrick:

1826, the 50 year anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of

Asher:

the Declaration of Independence. Natural

Patrick:

causes, They were old men.

Asher:

old

Patrick:

I'm guessing

Asher:

45. Oh,

Patrick:

Yeah. no, no. 70s, 80s. yeah. Yeah, because they both died on the 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence. And I don't think, I don't think, Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of

Asher:

Independence

Patrick:

when he was popping, crowning out

Asher:

of the

Patrick:

womb.

Asher:

That's crazy. Yeah. Wow. I did not know that. Yeah.

Patrick:

Yeah.

Asher:

I try not to know things about. any other No, I think we, uh, I think we You

Patrick:

we've exhausted this subject?

Asher:

we did it. I think we did the damn thing. But I'd love to hear from our viewers about

Patrick:

Yeah, if you've got any any

Asher:

Hit me up on the, hit me up on the gram. That's as far as we've gotten so

Patrick:

Yeah, we do have it we do have an Instagram

Asher:

of a may concern.

Patrick:

to whom it may concern

Asher:

and uh Chatted up. I don't have a lot of posts on there, but I do post stories. Yeah so Message message us talk to me chat at me, you know

Patrick:

All right, everybody, thanks for listening and, from Asher and myself, we wish you a very nice, day and a good rest of your week. All right. Take care, everybody. Bye bye.

Asher:

Love