When John Lawyer returned from the battlefields of Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan, he brought back more than just memories of war; he carried a spark for a spiritual revolution. Our latest episode features this former soldier and co-founder of Kishar, a non-profit spiritual community, who opens up about his transformation from witnessing the horrors of the military-industrial complex to seeking redemption and inner peace. Through his narrative, we'll uncover how the most profound spiritual awakenings often arise from the depths of human experience.
Together, we navigate through the complexity of spiritual beliefs, contemplating how an array of paths—monotheistic, polytheistic, or pantheistic—can funnel into one river of personal growth.
We draw our conversation to a close by contemplating the balance between light and dark within ourselves and the role of intuition in guiding us toward the divine.
Where to find John:
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr0p1zDPaPLmnmI3AIWhDFQ
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TikTok - @shiftingdimensions444
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DISCLAIMER:
The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the guest’s own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of Shifting Dimensions. The material and information presented here is for general information and entertainment purposes only.
When John Lawyer returned from the battlefields of Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan, he brought back more than just memories of war; he carried a spark for a spiritual revolution. Our latest episode features this former soldier and co-founder of Kishar, a non-profit spiritual community, who opens up about his transformation from witnessing the horrors of the military-industrial complex to seeking redemption and inner peace. Through his narrative, we'll uncover how the most profound spiritual awakenings often arise from the depths of human experience.
Together, we navigate through the complexity of spiritual beliefs, contemplating how an array of paths—monotheistic, polytheistic, or pantheistic—can funnel into one river of personal growth.
We draw our conversation to a close by contemplating the balance between light and dark within ourselves and the role of intuition in guiding us toward the divine.
Where to find John:
SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr0p1zDPaPLmnmI3AIWhDFQ
FOLLOW US:
TikTok - @shiftingdimensions444
Instagram - @shiftingdimensions_pod
DISCLAIMER:
The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed are the guest’s own and do not represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of Shifting Dimensions. The material and information presented here is for general information and entertainment purposes only.
I think one of the most powerful things in humanity and you can see it in most literature and movies is redemption. Right, there's great redemption out there, so I want everyone out there that thinks that they're not good enough or they've done bad things or all this stuff. There is always room for redemption.
Speaker 2:You're listening to Shifting Dimensions. I'm your host, jimmy Moses. On the show today is John Lawyer me Moses. On the show today is John Lawyer. From 12 years desert combat zones to a battle within, john, transformed from soldier to spiritual seeker. He is the co-founder of Kishar, a non-profit online spiritual community where people share their journeys and explore their own unique spiritual path. In our conversation, john and I discuss his journey from war to awakening, his thoughts on the military-industrial complex, knowing and living in our higher purpose, understanding the stream of unconsciousness, redemption and much more. Let's get into it, john. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here. How are you? I'm doing good, jimmy. How are you? I'm great. I'm great. I'm excited to speak with you because I think you have a very interesting story right. You had a spiritual transformation or awakening, I should say while being a soldier in Baghdad. So I want to just jump right into your story. What made you join the army and what sparked your spiritual awakening or transformation while being in the army?
Speaker 1:Right, I well, I joined the army straight out of high school and you know, I joined about a year before 9-11. So by the time I got done with training and everything, I was, uh, it was only about six months before the war started. And then the war started. I spent half of my enlistment in Kuwait and about two and a half years and I was there for, you know, supporting our troops in Afghanistan.
Speaker 1:We invaded Iraq from Kuwait as well, and once my my enlistment was over, I had to decide if I was going to kind of stay in or get out or go back into the. You know, I was a counterintelligence special agent, so I could have gone back to Washington DC and worked in the beltway, but I didn't. I didn't want to work in a cubicle and fight traffic twice a day and all that. So I my wife, who was did a similar job to me. We decided to stay doing what we were doing. We did it as, as civilians.
Speaker 1:So once we got out of the army, we were civilians, basically just doing the same job. And, uh, we did go to baghdad for over a year and a half and, uh, I didn't have my spiritual awakening. Then it I, we came home from iraq, I would, then we would have spent about six and a half years in afghanistan and kandahar and it was. It was after those kind of 15 years on and off being in combat zones, coming back home, and I ended up like, kind of like lost for about seven years when we came home and then after those seven years I kind of I had this moment or spiritual moment of clarity, understanding, awakening.
Speaker 2:We call it different things, right and when I was doing research and I was reading through some of your stuff, I I I thought you had had like some sort of reckoning or knowing, while being stuck in a desert. Do I have that?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, I, I, I gained a lot of perspective in combat. Uh, I you know, having missiles shot at you and and truck bombs go off and rockets shot. You know, like I and also like I was part of this military industrial complex. That's kind of this dark machine like it does some good stuff, don't get me wrong. We put it's, there's some good things for this, that and the other, but there's still a dark machine at times. And so being part of that darkness and like you're fighting the quote-unquote enemy, and the longer you're fighting, the more you realize we're all just humans, and so I definitely had a reckoning in that I've. I discovered that in my time in all these deserts in in kuwait and iraq and afghanistan, that we're all just human and we're all just trying to make it in the world, and that really kind of struck me. I didn't realize't realize at the time that this was a spiritual thing, necessarily, but it was a powerful thing that happened to me. That, I think, would definitely lead to that awakening later on, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and how would you describe your spiritual awakening or you know, your spiritual awareness? Because you hear people say that all the time, like I had an awakening, I had a knowing and I woke up. But a lot of times I want to know, like, what did you wake up to right? Like who were you before the spiritual awakening or the knowing, and what did you wake up to or realize after you know the spiritual awakening?
Speaker 1:That's a great question, especially the before and after, after. You know the spiritual awakening. That's a great question, especially the before and after part. You know, before I wasn't. I think we're all on a journey, whether we know it or not. I didn't know that at the time, so I didn't know. I was on a journey, right, I was on a spiritual path. I wasn't religious, I wasn't overtly spiritual. Uh, I was just, you know, uh, I was, I was kind of I was, I was wounded and still trying to figure out all those years later how to keep healing for more and and move on from that and, uh, figure out my place in the world and all that.
Speaker 1:And then when the my moment happened, it was kind of like a bolt of lighting. That happened late at night, I was laying in bed, my wife was asleep. Of lighting that happened late at night, I was laying in bed, my wife was asleep and I just had this understanding of oneness, of like the oneness of the universe, that we're all connected. It's very pantheistic idea that, um, essentially we're two, we're like, you and I are two parts of the same whole and that, uh, it was a very loving, kindness kind of understanding.
Speaker 1:I understood what my higher purpose or my dharma was. My higher purpose was to help people help themselves and find their wholeness, whether they knew they were whole inside or not. Find that light. And I knew I wanted to create a place where people could come together and have those conversations, regardless of their spiritual belief or their religious belief, that we could all have different beliefs but we're kind of saying the same thing and that we could all talk about it in a better way, so that that kind of all came to me like all at once.
Speaker 2:So what are some of your spiritual beliefs?
Speaker 1:I'm. I call myself an omnist or a universalist, and what that basically means overall is that I believe in the validity of all religions, spiritual philosophies, whatever, self-help development, even atheists, whatever, of the Tao and Taoism, some certain pagan and indigenous traditions that I don't practice specifically but help inform my own practice. So it's kind of like I try to read a lot of different stuff from around the world and across time and figure out what resonates with me and what works for me and, since we're all saying very similar things, what speaks to me in the easiest to understand way that makes the most sense for me to practice every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense. You know, when I was reading through your bio and you said that you're an omnis and I was like, oh, what is that? And I look it up and it was just kind of someone, like you said, who kind of believes in the validity of you, know all religions, and I would say like, oh, I think that's me too to some extent. Right, I think for me, like I know you mentioned you know atheism and I and I see where atheists come from, but I just there's just something in within me irrevocably that believes in a God, right, but I see why someone could find themselves being an atheist. So when you said that, I was like, oh, like that sounds kind of similar to how I think about a lot of things.
Speaker 2:I grew up Christian. I still very much. If I had to identify with a religion, it would definitely be. Christianity would be the religion that I identify with because that's the religion I grew up in. But I don't necessarily think that Christianity trumps other religions or practices and you talked about like paganism and stuff like that. So I want to dig a little bit deeper into that. So are you of the mindset in a monotheistic God, or you are open to polytheism or you understand the reason certain religions have polytheistic models versus others. I'm just curious.
Speaker 1:No, that's a good question. I like talking about this. This is a good conversation question. Uh, I like talking about this. This is a good, it's a good conversation. I, for me, I call myself.
Speaker 1:I would probably classify myself as a pantheist from that perspective, as far as what the deity is, because I believe that you, I believe I am the universe, the universe is me, right. So, uh, that everything is all one part of the divine, that that the divine is just all of us, it's everything, it's nature, it's, it's us humans, it's rocks, it's it's plants, it's all that. And I see that, even though people will call that pantheism, I see it, I think you could call it almost monotheism, because it's just one entity, you know. But as in us. But if you're a monotheist, I, I can get behind that because I think it's we're saying very similar things.
Speaker 1:But also polytheism, you know, I, if you're a monotheist, I can get behind that because I think we're saying very similar things. But also polytheism, if you look at different traditions around the world, it's almost like polytheism is just a mechanism of ritual to connect with the divine and it's not like they're worshiping that specific God. It's almost like that's just the connection to something beyond, from a ritualistic perspective. So I'm not a polytheist but I get it. And I think that sometimes we get a little bit too literal when, when we classify that as polytheism and we're kind of misunderstanding that that's just that, that person's connection to the other side, you know.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I think I'm understanding what you're saying, that it kind of misunderstanding, that that's just that person's connection to the other side, you know? Okay, so I think I'm understanding what you're saying, that it kind of serves as an intermediary, right, like something that is something or an entity that serves as kind of I don't want to say a translator, but I think the best analogy I can think of is when people within Christianity, for example, call on the Holy Spirit. Right, yeah, people consider the Holy Spirit as a part of God. Right, like we have the Father, son and the Holy Spirit. They're all parts of God. Is that in certain religions that could be like with certain entities that they quote, unquote, pray to, or they might ask them to be intercessors to the ultimate like the one God, the one being the one entity? That's a, that's a interesting, that's a good way of like looking at it, I believe.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Okay, so, um, I again, I just want to like push a little bit further, right? Because?
Speaker 2:you did work in. You know, you, you worked with the government, you were in the army and you know there's so much talk about, like you know, violence and all these conspiracy theories about, like the new world order and control and domination. And you know, I think some people even say, like, if you're someone who believes in aliens I don't know if you do but this like the reptilians, like having a lot of their hands within the army and stuff. So I want to know, as someone who's you know, been in it, you were immersed in it for a couple of decades do you add this, these concepts, or think about these things when you think about the larger, uh purpose of life? Or you know how we relate with one another, etc. Uh that's.
Speaker 1:That's a fun question. Uh, yeah, I like that. That's really fun. I I do believe in aliens I general. I definitely believe that there's stuff out there that we're not the only thing in the universe. It's so big. Yeah, I do believe in that.
Speaker 1:I also think that it's possible that, yes, we've had contact with aliens and the government is covering it up. I think that the government has some limited capability to keep something like that a secret for a long time, like a big, big secret, like that as a whole, like the government's really bad at conspiracies, like it's the federal government is this and the Department of Defense and all this. It's very tribalistic. It's very tribalistic. It's very futile. And so there's no one person in charge of everything. It's not Congress, it's not the president, it's not the Supreme. You know it's organized chaos. The government is, and so in order to carry out a conspiracy, it has to be. It would have to be something super serious, like aliens, or you know it would have to be something super serious like aliens, or you know would have to be something super. You know super small amount of people that are aware of it. You know like. But as a whole, I don't subscribe to a lot of conspiracy theories, because the federal government's just too messed up to make that happen.
Speaker 2:So that you say that, because I feel like I've heard, um, you know, people who have, you know, worked similar, done work similar to you, um like, have the like opposite thought on on this and they're very much down rabbit holes with, uh, different conspiracy theories.
Speaker 1:So I just had to ask, like yeah, where you were at in that conversation I don't talk about it very often, but I mean I had a top-figure security clearance and I was, you know, I was counterintelligence and I mean I know people who've worked at, uh, like groomed lake, area 51. I know people who've worked there and, like my uh, one of my counterintelligence partners in kuwait, uh years ago 20 years ago was his name was luis alizando or louis alizando. He's one of the guys that was in the department of defense that came out about aliens. I know Lou quite well, so you know, I mean it's it's an interesting thing to talk about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is very interesting. And another question I have for you related to war. You know, when people, like, have a spiritual awakening and they have this notion like we're all one, like you're me, I'm you and all of that stuff, you know, you start to see you don't see as much of a divide between you and someone else who might not look like you, right? So do you have any thoughts on the purpose of war? Do you still think that war and combat is necessary? And if you do, or if you don't, how do you kind of like reconcile that with your experience?
Speaker 1:That's a complicated question, and so I'll answer it the best that I can. I will say that in the world that we live in right now, like sitting here today, combat is necessary. War is, you know, an army? A standing combat is necessary. War is, you know, an arm? A standing army is necessary where humanity is at.
Speaker 1:I will also, at the same time, I will tell you that I was idealistic growing up. I wanted to do counterterrorism and I wanted to go figure that out and make the world a better place and help the world. That's one reason I joined the army, and the longer I was in the machine, the less I saw myself helping the world and the more I I realized that war is ultimately political. War is a political tool, it's a political device, and it doesn't matter why you go to war after the first 48, 72 hours or whatever right, it's just there's going to be. There's not the reason you went to war isn't going to be the reason you stay at war and and and I mean you know we were at we, we were in afghanistan for 20 years. That's politics. Um, you know, we invaded iraq, not because saddam was a threat to us or because he was involved in 9-11, we invaded iraq because of politics, um, or because saddam tried to kill w's dad, you know, tried to assassinate him back in 93, you know, whatever, and I'm out of politics now, I'm very apolitical, I'm comfortable talking about it a little bit, but, uh, to be able to answer questions like that, because I was, I was involved in geopolitics for my job and I had to know it and uh, but war is political, it doesn't serve much of a purpose.
Speaker 1:I think we do have to have a strong and present military, because of the, we can't get each, we can't get each other to just accept one another and to regard each other as humans, instead of regarding each other as people that are part of a nation with like imaginary invisible borders that don't really exist, with like imaginary invisible borders that don't really exist. I think you know it's that if you, if everybody, could just go back to that. You know we are the world, right, you know, and michael jackson and the, the song, and you know we're all one, right, uh, but we can't. So at this point it, war is pointless, it doesn't serve much of a purpose, and yet we still have to have a military. I guess that's the best I can answer that.
Speaker 2:So, if I'm understanding what you're saying, you're saying obviously you know war is pointless. It'd be nice if we could all just kumbaya and like hug and hold each other's hands, but that's not the case. We're still going to have to have a system of protection and, unfortunately, in this reality that we're living in, there's certain things that we need to, I guess, fight for or be able to stand up against, and related to, like geopolitics, et cetera, even though a lot of it is very dicey and questionable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good summary, and I would add at the end of that that I'm completely out of politics now. I'm out of even social justice. I'm about self-love and loving my neighbor, because I think that's the best way that I can change the world is not through any political action or social justice or politics. The best thing I can do for the world is to love my neighbor, regardless of who they are, what they are, and to love myself, and that can lift up and change the world. I would add that in because I think that's an important asterisk or qualifier to that.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, and I think that makes sense. And one thing you talked about is the importance of living your higher purpose, or dharma. What is dharma? I hear that a lot. What is it and why is that important to achieve or reach?
Speaker 1:I talk about it from kind of the Hindu sense of dharma and it basically it roughly translates into what your higher purpose is in this world, like what you as an individual are meant to do, uh, and I think that that's going to change for each person. It's going to change within that person. That might change throughout their life. It might be something and it might change into something else.
Speaker 1:And I think some, some of us kind of have an essence of what we're put on the earth to do, on the world, in this universe to do. Some of us kind of know that, some of us might just have an essence but not quite know it, and some of us might not even think about it or realize it. And I feel like if we're not living our higher purpose, if we don't know what it is, we have to find out. And if, once we find out, if we're not aligning that with how we live our life, with how we live our day to day, with with the job that we have, I think we're setting ourselves up for like a lot of heartache and pain and suffering.
Speaker 2:Essentially, it sounds like living in the, in a life that is intended for you, right? So like being authentic and living in your higher purpose, because that word purpose is so heavy for a lot of people and, depending on what stage you are in life, it could, you know, change and like kind of look different. So it's always kind of like how can you tell when you're living in your dharma, Like how do you know when you're living in your higher purpose?
Speaker 1:That's a good question too, and I get asked that a lot by hosts sometimes and by clients as well, by people that I talk to. It's going to be different for each person to realize what they're if they're living it. You kind of have to ask yourself, okay, like what lights my brain up? Like, what lights me up, what makes me lighter? Like what's that thing that I'm going to do tomorrow that I can't wait to go to sleep and wake up and do it again? Uh, and maybe you have an essence of that, not you, but the like, the big you, and maybe someone else.
Speaker 1:You can even talk to other people and say what do you think I love? Like what, what lights? Do you know what lights me up? Like there's different ways to find it, to know, to then understand whether you're living it or not Like what brings you joy and calm and peace and serenity? Those are answers to those questions Are you and like what are your values and beliefs? Because some people can list their values and beliefs out. Some might not be able to tell you right away what their values and beliefs are, so are you in alignment with those? I think that's going to inform what your higher purpose is as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with you. I think you know a lot of people say that like, what lights you up, what can you do that you know fills up your spirit and everything. And I think, because we live in a world that is so, whatever your talent is, whatever you feel good about, you need to turn it into something that you can monetize. It can't just be something that you're just good at and that you enjoy. It has to be something that you like, turn into. You know money or you monetize it.
Speaker 2:But I'm starting to think about it differently. I think when you're living in your higher purpose and it's bringing you joy and it's bringing other people joy, or you're doing it so that other people can benefit from it, then you know that you're living in your higher purpose. And again, like, I think it could be a couple of different things for people, but I feel like if you're using that and sharing it with the world, whether you're monetizing from it or not, like somebody who likes you know putting together or growing a garden right, like you're growing a garden, people walk past, you know the flowers as they're blooming, et cetera. That probably puts a smile on their face and you don't even know the impact that you're making with kind of like building that garden and sharing it with the world as an example.
Speaker 1:That's a beautiful way to describe it. No, you nailed it Because, yeah, sometimes you're living it as your job or vocation, and sometimes it's just something that you do every day. And yeah, you're doing it for you. And yet you're lifting up the whole world around you and when you're in line with your higher purpose, yeah, everyone around you is going to be better because you're better. So everyone around you is going to be your spouse, your children, your coworkers or whoever it is. No, I totally agree that sometimes it is your occupation and sometimes it's just these things that you do in your life every day that align with what you feel your purpose is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with that. Something else that you talk about is this notion of stream of unconsciousness. What is the stream of unconsciousness? Because people talk about consciousness often. You know being self-aware, understanding what's going on around you and how you're interacting with your reality, but what is this stream of unconsciousness? That's an interesting term.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I call it that because it's almost the opposite of what you're talking about. It's the when you're pulled by society to like do this or don't do, do that, or you've got to go to this school and you can't, you know, get married at this age and have kids, whatever it is, get this job, you know. There's all this stuff. We're told from a very young age by all these different people from our parents, our teachers, our, our friends, our co-workers that we have to do or do or can't do right.
Speaker 1:So, outside of all that noise like who are, who are, and so that stream of unconsciousness is that thing that pulls us. It's like that conveyor belt of life that pulls us downstream. It can be kind of warm, sometimes it can be comfortable, but it's not necessarily fully acknowledging who and what we are or what's around us. If we just take a step and stop and slow down and we, we stand up, we can look around and say, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm outside of this stream of unconsciousness. I see all this beauty around me, I can see all this life, this. Now I understand who I am and what I believe, not what someone's telling me I should believe. So it's about kind of, yeah, waking up, like you were talking about being conscious, being intentional, being aware, being all these things that sound like they're a lot of work, but actually when you do, them make you even. It's easy, it becomes easier, it makes life easier.
Speaker 2:The word that I'm starting to really dislike a lot is have to, you have to, you have to do this, you have to do that. And I'm disliking it more and more because I'm realizing how much of my decisions in life have come from oh, I have to do this, this is the next step I have to take, right, and just feeling like I didn't have an option but to do that kind of learning to be conscious of myself. The better I am and the more real and honest I am, the less angry that I am, and I feel like a lot of people in the world are angry because they've had to live a life that they thought they had to live in a specific way. So I really like that. You know, the stream of unconsciousness. It kind of it's. It's kind of calling out the fact that, hey, if you're not careful, you're going to end up just like you know, I guess, floating through life, like you're doing stuff but it's not the stuff you want to do. You're not right living your truth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like we're living someone else's story instead of writing our own story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and like that's the purpose of life. It's so scary to think about, though, because I think we are people who like community, and sometimes, when you think different to what everybody thinks or you move different to how everybody moves, it can be very like ostracizing, but I do think we're fortunate to live at a time, or live now, because we were worried about where our next meal was coming from, or you know, there's so many other things that now and you know, present day technology and just a lot of advancements kind of take care of, and the quality of life has improved, and a lot more people are empowered, especially women. They can, you know, make their own money and stuff. A lot more people are empowered, especially women. They can, you know, make their own money and stuff. So I do think we are living in a very opportune time to be able to have these conversations about living a life that's more authentically aligned with who you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you talk about the fact that we have all these opportunities now. And I love when people talk about, like, this optimistic take on humanity and where we're at and where, where we were, like you said, like 100 years ago, 200 years ago, 300, you know we've come so far and there's all this beautiful, great, joyful things out there, but we get focused on that negative stuff. But there's all this cool stuff like that are in abundance around us. We just kind of have to see it and go and go take it, because it's there. No one's going to give it to us, and I don't mean that in like a violent sort of way, right, we just have to go take it. The universe is offering it to us. We have to go stand up and reach out to the universe and say I accept this.
Speaker 2:Speaking of the universe, you say that it's important to open up to the universe. What does opening up to the universe mean and like? What does that mean to you and what is the benefit in opening up to the universe?
Speaker 1:The universe, it takes care of us, like it will send us what we need. Often it's not going to look like what we asked for or what we thought we needed. And so if we're open to the universe, we're kind of in this mode of receiving and we can be on the lookout for opportunities that we didn't anticipate, didn't expect and that if we're not conscious of then we're going to miss, because the universe wants to help us, the universe wants us to be taken care of, and there's a great balance in the universe. So if we just trust it and kind of and and we can't, we can't stay still, we have to be in motion.
Speaker 1:I don't believe in absolutes, really, and I don't say you have to do this very often because, like we were talking about earlier, I don't like those have to's right, but the only constant in the universe is probably change. So what we should probably do is move with the universe, because that's change, accept change and be in the rhythm of the universe, dance with the universe. So that's being open, being ready, being being in receive mode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with you. I think when we're open to how the universe is guiding us. You know, people, it's so many different words universe, source, god, however you want to describe it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, I see it as the same thing. So synonyms yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly so. I find that when I'm open to the universe, you know it gives us like whispers, nudges, signs, like hey, go in this direction. You know you're making a wrong turn here. Like there's this willingness to kind of help us. Because I guess one of the biggest questions I have, and a lot of people have, is like why do so many people suffer? Like why come to this earth and choose to go through all these like trials and tribulations and deal with all of these things? Like what is the purpose of this, all of all of this? And I think it's a little bit easier when we listen to those nudges and you know from the universe we might not have the answer, but life gets a little bit easier for us when we listen to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you talk about those little nudges and for me, you know, you know, intuition, that gut intuition based feeling that we have, that we know isn't our mind talking, it's something different. That that's the universe, right, that's god, the divine, the self. You know, whatever you want to call it, that's telling us do this or don't do that, or you shouldn't do this, or you need. You know, that's the universe telling us. So that's not the society or someone else, that's our, that's our self, our base, inner self, telling us something that is this deeply powerful thing, that nudge that you're talking about.
Speaker 2:You know you talked about, you know you're you're an ominous, uh, of course, but you said that some of the religions that you kind of you know really resonate with the most like. You know Hinduism, Taoism. I know in Hinduism that was the first religion that I studied that really talked about the notion of karma and reincarnation and all that sort. So I just want to know, like, how deep are you in some of these? You know, teachings, understandings, do you believe in them as well, and how does that play into your, you know, spiritual life and your connection with the divine and yourself?
Speaker 1:I love that. It's a fun question too. Yeah, I delve deep, pretty deep, into Hinduism. I believe in the universal oneness when I call it like the Brahman, the universal thing, like the individualistic gods, like Krishna and stuff like that. I don't really get too deep into the individual, personal gods of Hinduism, but the universal side of it. I do some of the yoga traditions and Really resonate with me.
Speaker 1:There's, they have an idea of that. You know birth, a life, death, re-birth, that you know reincarnation, the cycle of things where you, you come to life, you learn, you know you die, you come back, you learn even more and you know you advance, you evolve as a being. And we talk about having old souls. You know people are old souls or whatever, right? They've lived previous lives or seen other things, right? So they call that samsara, like it's a cycle, it's a circle that we're in and I, I believe I, I deeply subscribe to that.
Speaker 1:I think that even within life we have these cycles that we live, that are smaller samsara there's, like you know, we get stuck in these cycles of these habits and routines of positivity, of negativity, things that affect us, and so, yeah, I and like yoga isn't yoga, isn't just a bunch of poses. Right, it's a deeply, it's this meditative thing, it's this getting in touch with the self inside that's tied to the universal everything and that the poses and the breath work and everything just are a means to an end to achieve that spiritual connection to the other side or to ourself, however you look at it to the divine. So yeah, I definitely, really I really dig Hinduism. I think it's a really beautiful religion.
Speaker 2:I'm really fascinated by Hinduism as well. I think reincarnation was like the first thing I heard and the whole karmic cycle that, like you know, got my attention and I was like I feel like that sounds pretty, that sounds right. I felt that in my gut and, of course, I've had so many conversations about it. Now done additional research and it seems to track with a lot of things that have been said and written about across, like ancient civilizations, a lot of ancient history on the notion of reincarnation and karmic cycles, karmic laws, etc. And the reason I asked that question is because I mean it kind of gives you a different perspective on again, why are we here?
Speaker 2:What is the definition of purpose? You know even the relationships that we have in our life. You know why are they here. You know how we're interacting with the people in our lives. What does that really mean for our purpose in our life and our understanding of ourselves and the divine? So I thought it was important to you know, obviously, ask you that question. I know that you have a spiritual community called the Kisher Spiritual Community, so I just want to talk about that a little bit more. What is the origin of the name and why did you decide to create this community?
Speaker 1:Thank you for asking. It's been kind of my labor of love for over two, two and a half years now, so I knew that I wanted to create a non-profit online spiritual community as soon as almost I had my awakening. It was like almost simultaneous, and I I felt like there was room in this modern age for authentic, meaningful connection in the digital world. Looks like you and I are having a great conversation right now. We can do that, right, uh, I want a place where people could uh tell their story, hear other people's stories, you know where, their affirmations and meditations and courses, and, um, so I, you know, we we needed a name. And kishar is the sumerian goddess of mother earth, or gaia, and I thought that kind of uh was a beautiful thing the divine, divine, feminine as well and it also represents the line on the horizon between earth and sky, and I think that line on the horizon really encapsulates that journey that we're all on, which is pretty cool, and so that's the name.
Speaker 1:And my wife and I co-founded it with another friend of ours that we met in afghanistan, who grew up in the balkans at war, and then she was doing stuff with us in Afghanistan, and so we're the three co-founders of the nonprofit and um trying to get back to the world, you know, trying to create a place where people can come be members and find, um what's empowered for them. We're not going to tell you what your spirituality is. We're not going to tell you what your belief is Like. We're going to give you options and say here's what's out, here you decide. And it doesn't matter if you're Hindu or Christian or a new age spiritualist. We can all hang out together and have meaningful discussions, but have fun, have, have zoom round tables and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, it's, it's, it's been like like I said, a labor of love.
Speaker 2:I love what you said, that you know you're not trying to create a community where you're kind of telling people what to believe, you're kind of presenting them with knowledge, creating a space where it doesn't matter what your belief, um, your creed, whatever we can just kind of all come together in in union and have conversation and have like a safe space. And it's interesting. And the reason why I really liked that you said that is because a lot of the stuff online is very polarizing. I think everyone is so like this is my camp, this is my belief, like it's not going to change. If you don't believe this, then I don't. This is crazy.
Speaker 2:Like there's just so much divide a lot of times, you know, within the spiritual community and I'm of the belief that you know a lot of, like you said, but the whole ominous idea is that they're like there's an overlying or like an underlying truth in a lot of these religions.
Speaker 2:Right, and as human beings we all have different interpretations. Some people kind of like interpret it in a more negative way, other people interpret it in a more loving way, and you know, but at the end of the core of all religions is like this idea of like, oneness and love, right. So I love that you're creating a community for people to just like be themselves, no matter what. You know, it doesn't have to be like oh, this is what we believe. It's like yeah, like we're going to have these discussions, these are the options presented to you. You decide. And I'm of the belief as well, too. Like you know, people should think more about like what they believe and like make those decisions for themselves, rather than just be like okay, well, I was told to believe this because a lot of us are programmed. So it seems like a place where there's more freedom. It doesn't seem like some sort of like programming or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's the goal right Like yeah, no dogma, just very lightly moderated. The only real rules are be open-minded and be kind, that's about it. Yeah, and I love that, speaking of you know, moderated. The only real rules are be open-minded and be kind, that's about it. Yeah, yeah, that's about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I love that, um, speaking of you know spirituality and just like having a community that really helps um other people. I know that you like to distinguish between spirituality, uh, science, philosophy, religion and self-help, even though they a lot of these things bleed into each other. I just have to hear your thoughts, especially on what you think the difference is between spirituality and, like, religion and also philosophy yeah, I think that they're.
Speaker 1:I think they're all saying almost the same thing. Again, like even because, like, I think all religions are saying very similar things. But I also think philosophers, scientists, spiritualists, philosophers, they're all, we're all really, as I've read, I I had the when I had my, my kind of awakening moment. I wasn't on a spiritual journey really that I knew of, I mean, I was, but I it right. So I didn't really know the vocabulary or like I hadn't studied a lot of philosophy, I hadn't studied a lot of religion, so I had to read a lot. And so, as I'm reading I think I read 60 books in four months Went crazy. I was reading like 12, 13, 14 hours a day, taking notes furiously, writing stuff down, taking notes, furiously, writing stuff down.
Speaker 1:I was struck by and I would switch between philosophy and then read a book on a scientist who was a philosopher, a scientist who wrote about religion, or people who wrote about Hinduism or Buddhism or the Abrahamic faith and Christianity and the mystics. I can't find a difference whether I'm reading about Christianity or I'm reading, like, the philosophy of physics by Max Planck, who was the father of quantum physics. He said basically you know, science can't get behind consciousness. We know it exists. Everything we see postulates its existence. We even believe that matter sits on top of consciousness. But we can't prove it. But maybe philosophy can, maybe religion can, maybe spirituality can. So I think when you get the father of quantum physics saying something like that, like you know, it's all the same thing, you know.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's all the same thing, but you know, because human beings were so diverse and people learn and absorb knowledge differently.
Speaker 2:so it's kind of like finding different ways to say the same thing, right, like, even when we talk about, yes, matter and gravity and all that stuff, I think in the spiritual community we could like that might be synonymous to like when people are talking about like energy and how everything is energy and you know like, yeah, they're, they're just.
Speaker 2:And when, you know, within the science community as well, there's like energy can neither be destroyed or created, kind of go back to like want oneness, like eternity, and like just the like, just how the world is and how like it's it goes on for eternity, like it can't be, uh, destroyed, at least, right, that we know of.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of like we're all kind of saying the same things and um, but just like in different ways, which is which is so fascinating, and sometimes I wish people would like wake up to the idea that you know we're all saying the same thing. But I feel like there's a lot of, you know, confusion. There's a lot of no, this has to be, you know, there has to be one truth, right, and it's like we all have a piece to the puzzle, right, like why don't we just come together and like build out this like whole picture, but I think a lot of people are very much like. This is the truth, this is the. This is the only reality. But the truth is we're all living in our own reality and we all can.
Speaker 1:we all have limited vision, unfortunately so yeah, yes, yeah, and I, you, you nailed it. Yeah, yes, yeah, and you nailed it 100% there. And if you look at the great teachers, whether it's Jesus Christ or Buddha or Laozi, how many times did we see them say the same thing in 20 different ways? Because they knew that they didn't know which thing they said would resonate with someone. So, even within the specific religions, they say things a bunch of they said would resonate with someone. So, even within the specific religions, they say things a bunch of different ways, hoping that someone will. And humans are very tribalistic and I think we it's okay, I think we have to accept that and say this tribe over here says I'm right and this tribe over here says I'm right, you know well it's okay.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's how humans are. It's just, it's trying to get people to understand. It's okay to have different tribes, it's okay to believe, like you said, different things in different ways. So whatever works for you, that's great. Just don't expect me to exactly agree with you, because that seems unreasonable. Right with you, because that seems unreasonable, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it seems unreasonable and don't feel like. You know, we are tribalistic and I think it's within us to feel like our tribe is the best tribe.
Speaker 1:Right, Exactly, and my team right. This is my team.
Speaker 2:Exactly. But I think you know I can be like, yeah, this is my team and I might think we're the best, but I don't have to necessarily put you down or make you feel like you know what you believe is, you know, completely left field. I mean there are some things that I I just can't get behind personally. I mean, everybody's like different, so for me I struggle with the flat earth theory, for example.
Speaker 1:but for me. I've had to tell myself, like man, like I agree with 90. You know, my neighbor and I probably agree 90 of things. We want to be happy, healthy and have security and I have. So I have to tell myself that 10 that we disagree on I just kind of I gotta let go of that because otherwise I'll just I'll just be so frustrated, you know yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly the things that we agree on, cole.
Speaker 2:The other stuff it's like, yeah, it's going to have to, you know, release that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree with you on that and you know. So what I was also going to ask too. You know, within the spiritual community and stuff, people always talk about this shift into, like a five-dimensional reality which kind of talks a little bit more about like right now we're talking about duality, right Like this is my camp versus your camp, but like the 5D notion kind of talks about understanding how everybody kind of plays a role and like even though people are different, there's still a oneness. So do you buy into or do you believe in these like dimensional shifts and like evolution and all that stuff? Do you you talk about those things or do you believe in them?
Speaker 1:I definitely believe in, like the multiverse that that there's multiple realities, that our universe that we live in is not just the universe, it is a universe of universes and that there are different places.
Speaker 1:Because I don't like. I think that this thing that you and I see right now, like the computers that we're looking into, the camera, the microphone, these walls that are around us in our room, I don't think that's real. I, you know, I don't necessarily see it as a matrix thing, necessarily. I just think that our individual consciousness that is tied to the universal oneness creates our individual reality. So I believe that this reality that I'm in is kind of my, my bubble of consciousness and that creates my reality, which bumps into all these other bubbles of reality from everybody else's consciousness, but still part of the collective, and that's what creates this like concrete world that we see and move through that's such an interesting way of putting it, because I love the idea of the multiverse theory, just from like a very nerd perspective and very much down a rabbit hole with, like Marvel and all that stuff, right.
Speaker 2:So I love the idea of you know the multiverse theory because, again, and I think it also makes sense because when you talk to psychics or people who, like, have the ability to predict the future or talk about the future, they say that, like the future is a moving target, right. So it also makes me think, if the future is a moving target, that means that there are different potential futures like happening all at once, right. So it's kind of like, depending on the decision that you make determines what reality you enter. But, like to your point about the different bubbles, like the different realities that we're living in, I agree with that.
Speaker 2:You know, when I was younger, I used to have this image of like everyone had like an earth over their head, but everyone's earth was different, like everyone was literally in their own world. I don't know why. I used to have that like imagery come, like image come to my mind, but it sounds so similar to like what you're talking about, right, it's kind of always looking around and being like how much of this is real and how much of this is like a projection of, like my reality, which is so trippy to think about. It's like an infinite, like unending cycle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and for me, sometimes I'm just like again, it's like people always say, source wants to experience itself. That's why we're having these like experiences, but it's again it's just so trippy to think about. Like you said at the beginning but you were referring to the government, obviously is this notion of like organized chaos yeah, it is that comes to mind, which is again just so trippy. And somebody else also said something. They were like are we dreaming while we're awake but we think we're actually living in the real world? And are our dreams actually like reality? Right, but when we wake up we think we're awake but we're actually dreaming. Another thing that kind of blew my mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, how do we know? How would you know, right? Yeah, Like I think that's a perfectly, that's a perfectly valid question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly yeah. It's just also interesting to me. That's why it helps me not to take myself too seriously and take life too seriously, even though life can be very serious. Matrix, in the way we think about matrix, like the movie and stuff like that, but it just feels like some sort of like game that we're all in.
Speaker 1:but well, yeah, I mean that goes all the way back to was it plato, aristotle and the, the allegory of the cave, where the guys are in the cave and it's dark and there's a shadow. They thought they were their shadows, right, yes. And then they, they leave the cave and walk out in the sunlight years later and they realize that they're human, like that, they're people, yeah, but before that they were just shadows on the cave wall or whatever. I don't.
Speaker 1:I'm not, probably not describing no, I think you're no, I think you're spot on yeah but I mean, this goes back all the way to the, the, you know the, the original greek philosophers, and. And what is reality?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I love Plato's allegory. I think it was Plato.
Speaker 1:It was Plato yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was, and I just remember like I had to read that story a couple of times before it actually like really stuck what he was saying and I think the person who left the cave and came back and was like hey guys, like there's this, like we're stuck in this cave, but there's so much more out there, right, I think I might be getting this wrong, um, but I think the other people in the cave were just like outraged and like yeah, we're super violent and like what are you talking about? It? Just it was like the it, the idea of their reality potentially being a lie or just not the full reality, was just so unnerving to them, so unnerving, so it makes you think, like when you have conversations like this even though I do think now people don't think these conversations are as crazy anymore, but I think that you know for a while and there are still a lot of people out there that are just kind of like you know, what are you talking about now? This isn't it. Do you have any thoughts on heaven and hell?
Speaker 1:I don't believe in hell. I think that the only way someone goes to hell is if they believe in it.
Speaker 2:I've heard that before, so I think that, yeah, people can believe in hell.
Speaker 1:I think that the only way someone goes to hell is if they believe in it. I've heard that before. So I think that, yeah, people can go to hell. If they 100% on earth believe that there is a hell and that they do bad things and they go to hell, there's a very good chance they may go to hell, and I find that tragic. Wow, I don't mean to laugh, I'm not trying to be a jerk. Yeah, I know. Wow, so I don't mean to laugh, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but yeah, I know. But no, I don't, I don't, I don't really believe. I think heaven, I think heaven is achieving enlightenment, or nirvana, or the, the divine state of christ consciousness I I've subscribed deeply to the christian mystics and christ consciousness or the specific red letters of the New Testament that are, you know what Jesus said versus what all the other stuff. So, yeah, I don't particularly believe in either one, although if you believe in one, enough one or the other, it probably does exist in your reality.
Speaker 2:Maybe even in your after reality.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've heard that before because, again, going back to the idea of, like we create our own reality and I guess if you, if you, you know, and most reality comes starts with thought, right, Like, we live in a very mental universe. The universe is mental according to, like, hermetic philosophy, so it's like if you are having these thoughts, then you are creating that reality. Reality becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy. So I have heard that notion before and it's a little scary to think about, right, Like, oh my God, if I think about this, you know hard enough then I might find myself there. Yeah, I listened to a lot of like near-death experiences and I've heard most people say that they've only been to heaven or experienced a light-centered near-death experience, but others have had really scary experiences where they felt like they were in hell realms.
Speaker 1:My stepfather-in-law. He, he, he came back and in the hospital and he said that he had fought off a dark being while he was and he had gone to the light or whatever, but he had, uh, fought off his dark being. Um, I always thought that was interesting, that that he had a struggle and came out in the light and, uh, and he came back to tell about it. Um, so that's that's the only like firsthand indie I have experience with, but I think studying indies is really interesting from a metaphysical perspective and also from a consciousness scientific perspective too yeah, it's interesting you mentioned the dark beings.
Speaker 2:Like I've heard so many people talk about low vibrational beings and like demons and like lower astral entities, like attacking them, and sometimes I don't think all, but sometimes I just get this idea or this like notion that sometimes those like lower vibrational beings that we might be attacking, whether in a dream or somebody like you know, goes to the other side really quickly. It might be like the darker, more wounded parts of us that we have not yet healed. So almost kind of like fighting them in the spiritual sense or in the metaphysical sense is almost kind of like a shedding or a reckoning with the darker, more shadowy sides of our personalities and who we are as people.
Speaker 1:I fully subscribe to that. I think that's a great way to explain it, because I think that struggle within ourself is this big thing. I I very much in kind of in line with that. I see us as the balance of the universe, walking and we can. We see the light on the right and the dark on the left, and or vice versa or whatever. But we're that balance, walking the middle and we get to choose where we put our attention. But we still have to accept the darkness. We can't ignore it, we can't pretend it doesn't exist. So there's that acceptance of balance. So I definitely subscribe to kind of that idea.
Speaker 2:When people say accept the darkness, I feel like sometimes I think I have a sense of what you mean, but I want to fully understand. So how do we accept the darkness without it consuming us? So it's like some stuff is really dark, right, oh, really dark. So what do you mean by like, accept the darkness? Like how would you? What meaning? Do you subscribe to that?
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's a good question, it's a good topic. So I was so for me, like I was. I have like I accepted that I have darkness within me because I I did these dark things in the military right, like I dropped bombs on people and sent people to go capture people and broke up families and tribes and awful stuff, stuff that I wish I hadn't done. That's dark stuff. And then, and then we have sometimes we have dark thoughts that we don't want to admit that we have, and so I think that as a society we don't really accept that there's darkness within us. There's that, that that darkness is a necessary part of the universe.
Speaker 1:I think we get it all jaded in Judeo-Christian society because we just talk about the light and heaven and goodness and then we just subscribe everything else to kind of this hellish type thing, right or bad, and darkness can be bad. I'm not saying it's not, it's just that there's probably darkness in each of us and maybe it's just me, or maybe it's just a few people, I don't know. But uh, I think we've all. We all have these feelings and thoughts that that come forward and that we we push back and say, oh, that's not me, that's a that's this thought over here, that I just was a fleeting thought or whatever. But I think if we accept that the darkness is there and we say I accept it, but I don't let it control me, that's what we have to do. It's an acceptance, in a way of saying I know it's there and maybe I'm uncomfortable with it at first, but I'm just going to become comfortable with it.
Speaker 1:Not comfortable with it in a way where it defines me, it controls me, but it's like the yin and yang right of taoism. So you've got the, the, you know the, the light and the dark, and they're in balance with each other. I think that's it. I think that's why I like dowsing so much, because that line in the middle is the tao, that is the way, that is the universe, that is the, that's god, the divine nature. Uh, and if you look at nature, nature is balance, nature is light and dark, there's birth and rebirth, and and there's death and all of that and there's. It's a cycle, right? So for me that's how I would describe it I say acceptance is not an acceptance in an overwhelming sense, it's just acceptance that I'm not. I'm going to know that is there, I'm going to accept that it's there, but I'm not going to let it define me or control me I like that.
Speaker 2:I do like that. It's kind of we can't 100 get rid of the darkness, right, because, like you said, the what I understand, the need for darkness in this world, in this reality, in, in, in just nature, etc. Is without the dark you can't recognize the light, the significance of the light yeah light loses its significance without the dark right, 100, 100.
Speaker 1:It's about free will, it's about choice, and I, you know, I, I, I like, I like that you bring that up because people ask well, why is there pain and suffering in the world if there's a divine, if there's a god or whatever it's like? You know that's not the point. Like, do you like free will? And most, almost everyone, would tell you, yeah, I like free will, I like, I like having choices, I like being, I like the idea that I have free choice and free will. So well, if you like free will and if you like choice, you have to accept that there is light and dark out there on either side of those choices and that somewhere in between them is some balance. And so, yeah, the contrast of the light against the dark, I think, is a hugely important theme.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know I was thinking about it the other day, like, again, we live in a world where it's kind of like good or bad, black or white, but you know, when you think about the dark versus the light, there's really no like hard line in the middle that separates the dark from the light. They kind of bleed into each other. It's kind of how they say, like love and hate are two sides of the same coin. Right, like the coin has two different sides, but it's, they're both, it's still one coin, right Like there's no separation between the dark side of the coin or the light side of the coin. It kind of like all bleeds together.
Speaker 2:So I think a lot of it is gray and that gray part is like the, the freedom of choice that you're talking about and the ability to to recognize the light. And I kind of want to, you know, dig deeper a little bit into your experience, if you don't mind sharing. Like you know, while you know being in the army, there are some things, like you said, that you regretted. So did those, like what you might consider dark decisions haunt you for a while? How were you able to like release them or like come to terms with okay, these were decisions that I made at the time that I thought were the best decisions that I had to make, versus like who I am now.
Speaker 1:No, that's a powerful question. Yeah, they bothered me for a long time and there's a part of me that I've tried to accept and let go of that it probably will still bother me for a long time, even if I've kind of accepted it. Yeah, it bothered me for a long time. I realized that I did a lot of things that saved people's lives. I kept my brothers and sisters in arms in my unit, alive People.
Speaker 1:When I was at Kandahar Airfield, it was the single busiest runway on planet earth. It had 50,000 people on base, like I was in my. My unit, our unit was responsible for protecting that base, all those people and all those aircraft and all this stuff. So it was a big job. And so, yeah, I, yeah, I know I save lives. I know I kept my people alive by making good decisions.
Speaker 1:And I know, you know, down to a fairly specific number, how many people that I, you know, I recommended to my commander to drop the bomb or to fire the missile or to, you know, and how many people that we went and captured and sent to prison and took them away from their wife and their children and then, and they, you know, and how many people that we went and captured and sent to prison and took them away from their wife and their children and and they, you know, in Afghanistan, that's their whole, that's the patriarchy, it's like that's the whole, that's their whole world.
Speaker 1:In a place like Afghanistan, the husband and we would send those people to prison and the family would be broken. So, yeah, that that tore me the longer I did it and there were some times where some things happened as I was conducting operations, because I was an intel director and I also was an operations manager for an asymmetric warfare unit and, yeah, it definitely wore on me and it's something that I've been able to come to terms with and it's one of the reasons I want to give back to the world and give back to the light of the universe, because I don't think that any one thing that we did or any series of things that we did defines who we are. So I think that it's. I think one of the most powerful things in humanity and you can see it in most literature and movies is redemption. Right, there's great redemption out there. So I want everyone out there that thinks that they're not good enough or they've done bad things or all this stuff there's always room for redemption, that absolutely redemption is possible.
Speaker 2:It's painful, it's messy, there's a lot of like emotions that come with it and, like you said, there's probably gonna be a part of you that always feels like, you know, regret or just like I wish I didn't do those things right. But I love that you are kind of taking that moment and looking at your future and looking at your present and thinking, okay, how can I, you know, continue to make the world a better place and kind of like you know you can't reverse your actions from the past, but you can make sure that your actions moving forward are on the side of kind of like more love, more loving and more light, I would say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well, thank you, yeah I. That's a great perspective and I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to ask John before we close. Has there been?
Speaker 1:anything that you've shifted in perspective lately. It could be as light-hearted as you want it to be or as deep as you want it to be. You know, I I always call myself a teacher and a student and I love when I'm a student as well. I think it's a good thing. I I'm trying to be more myself out amongst everybody else, you know like be my more authentic self. I. I know I live that way a lot, but I need to do it more and I have been doing that more and I find good things happen when that happens, and so I've really appreciated that recently, that shift.
Speaker 2:Thank you for sharing that. Where can people find you if they want to connect with you via your community or just, like you know, follow you on social media Sure?
Speaker 1:Our main website is kisharorg it's K-I-S-H-A-Rorg that's our main page that they can join our community. They can seek out individual spiritual guidance and coaching sessions. Our social media is mostly at Kishar Spiritual on most platforms, and we have a pretty cool YouTube channel called Peace on your Journey and there's links to that on our website as well. But check it out. It's got helpful information for people. To just kind of be more chill yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:I'm going to put that in the show notes as well. Thank you, john, for stopping by Shifting Dimensions. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:It's been great. You're a great host.
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