In today's podcast, we talk to Curtis from CJ Services about how his small business won on Instagram and got brand deals that grew his business.

Curtis shares his journey from greenkeeping and DJing to establishing his own gardening business, leveraging social media to grow his brand, and dealing with the ups and downs of being an influencer. The conversation covers the impact of social media on mental health, the challenges of creating engaging content, and the benefits of collaborating with other creators.

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview
01:22 Meet Curtis: From Greenkeeper to DJ
02:28 Starting a Business: Challenges and Triumphs
05:07 Social Media Journey: The Ups and Downs
08:04 Tips for Creating Engaging Content
14:53 Collaborations and Working with Brands
23:14 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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Introduction and Podcast Overview

Curtis: It can be very up and down. I think there are highs of when you're getting millions of views, but then you, everyone's so negative sometimes. So it can be very low. The more views you're getting, brands then do start to reach out. I've actually reached out to a few and said, look, do you want me to help out if I can?

If they've got a product that kind of isn't being shown to many people, I feel like I could get that product and then show it.

Robbie: Welcome to the Roots to Revenue podcast. This podcast we have today Curtis and Curtis has traveled all the way over from England to be in the podcast. Before we get into that, I need to tell you about my sponsor.

The podcast is sponsored by Jobber. Jobber is scheduling software that I've used for the last 10 years. To run my own business. It does all my scheduling, my invoicing, my quoting. Best of all, it gets me paid faster and my customers love it. If you want to try it out, there's a 14 day [00:01:00] trial. You don't need a credit card or debit card.

Jason: Don't forget about the link www. premierloans. link forward slash jobber to get 40 percent off your first three months.

Robbie: Today's video is going to be a bit of a mixed bag. We're going to be talking about Good points of social media and the bad points of social media. And Curtis has a very unique way that he runs his business.

Meet Curtis: From Greenkeeper to DJ

Robbie: So Curtis, do you want to tell us a bit about yourself?

Curtis: How old am I now? 33 I'm now. Had the business for going on 10 years. Ex Greenkeeper. Yeah, like myself. Greenkeeper then was actually DJing alongside. So used to do a bit of greenkeeping, travel around Amsterdam, Belgium, Barcelona, DJing. And

Robbie: what sort of music did you play?

Curtis: Just drum and bass. Yep. Yes. It's about a That's my kind of thing. You go to the quiet scenic golf course, and then You're a rave, basically. And how many people would have been going to the, were you a headliner, were you a second or third? No, I wasn't [00:02:00] headlining or anything, but I've played in front of a couple of thousand people.

Very good, yeah. I've seen on, I've seen on your YouTube channel, you have some. Yeah, it's quite nerve-wracking. I'd say so. But yeah, it's a good experience. Why are you no, why are you no longer being a DJ? When I started the business. There was no real way to, to cut all these lawns and then bugger off abroad for a few days DJing.

So I thought I'll I've done a few years of it. It's done now. Yeah.

Starting a Business: Challenges and Triumphs

Robbie: And when did you, so when did were greenkeeping and then were you gardening maybe on the side and then you got into it or did you do, or the greenkeeping and then?

Curtis: Yeah, it was greenkeeping and then alongside it You're finishing early, aren't you?

So finished early, go and earn a few quid. Jason thought you listened to that. I totally listened to that dirty cop. Yeah. You guys are probably, you're probably finishing a little bit later, but we were starting at six and finishing at 2. 30. Yeah. So you've got [00:03:00] hours left. Even if you went and just cut a couple of lawns.

And then you finish it when all your mates are finishing. And how many, how long did you do that for before you decided to go out on your own? Or what was the catalyst there? Because I went out after a redundancy. Yeah, so So I was really done for my job. And then I had a, sorry to interrupt, I had a bit of a round build up.

And then I just stepped fully into that. So what happened was I actually had a bit of an accident at the golf club. I was loading some rocks into a front loader. It was a two man job. Had to do it on my own. Ended up chopping the end of my finger off, basically. Ouch. Couple of weeks off work.

Then thought I asked for help. I'm gonna put a claim in like where there's a blame. There's a claim in there So how's that shift in a lot of in a lot of golf courses can be? Yeah, a little bit lagging. Yeah, it was lacking. So I put the claim in got a payout then I [00:04:00] was in the position where I thought I'm doing a few more lawns now I'll ask for pay rise Bit cheeky because I've just got a payout They actually said no to the pay rise.

So I thought i've got the money Let's properly go into the business. Let's get the van. Let's get all the tools. Let's leave the golf club get it set up Didn't really have anything to lose off. We go. Yep sort of thing and then you just didn't look back No, I didn't look back. They were very skeptical But I thought, I've got nothing to lose.

I've got this little bit of money here, I can set it all up. There's work everywhere, isn't there? Every house or road you're driving past. Work is money, isn't it? Yeah. Work leads to work. Yeah. Whenever you're working at one job and a lot of the time it never fills in me.

You're standing cutting the heads or you're cutting, you turn up and you call a garden and the next thing, the neighbor's out, he's cutting his garden or he's cutting his heads. Yeah. But then you'll get the customers that don't want to do it themselves and they'll come over and say, jointly can make a quote [00:05:00] for doing my house.

Yeah. And then over you go. That's how it went. Yeah. And I'm going into the 10th year now.

Social Media Journey: The Ups and Downs

Robbie: So tell me this here Curtis, because I've been following you on social media for a while and I think you're one of the up and coming channels. And I really enjoy your work. So Curtis runs CJ services on Instagram and now you're, You're on TikTok and now you're branching into my game, YouTube.

Curtis: Yeah, trying. We're going to drop a link to his channel down below, so make sure you follow it. How have you found growing your business and running, we're going to talk a wee bit about social, being a, being an influencer. Yeah. How have you found being an influencer alongside running your business?

Robbie: Has it been good or bad or indifferent for you?

Curtis: It can be very up and down. I think there's highs of when you're getting millions of views But then you, everyone's so negative sometimes, so it can be very, low. You have to be very sexy, can't you? Yeah, you have to try and ignore it, but it is quite hard.

The phone will go off and you look at it and you think, that's put me in a really bad [00:06:00] mood now. But then, you can't, if you're putting yourself out there, it's just learning to, to cope with it a bit, isn't it? Not everyone's going to agree with the way you're doing it, their way might be better or vice versa.

And then you have as well, whenever you first started social media on the social media journey, most people hide it from their family and friends for, till it gets up to the, I suppose because you came from, you have the DJ background and I suppose you're used to being, but most people are like, Oh, I don't know.

Whenever I say to my friends I'm starting a YouTube channel, they'll be like, Robert, you're the last person we'd expect to see on social media. And I was like, oh I'm going to, I'm going to give it a go anyway.

Robbie: I'd made a video at the start of lockdown with one of my friends. We had a bit, we had a bit of fun making a video and I poked a lot of fun at him.

I poked a lot of fun at him. It was just a bit of a really light-hearted video. But one of my other friends then he was like, he is he thought, oh, he's laughing at it, but he is laughing at me. Yeah. He wasn't laughing at the [00:07:00] video. He was laughing at me and I was like, thanks. Like thanks you, you're me being my mate and you're laughing at me.

But the took was on him 'cause he didn't get it. Yeah. 'cause he didn't get it. But then a year or two later, he then approached me and he says, Robbie, look, I'd love to make a YouTube channel. Can you teach me? So he was obviously, there was a wee bit of jealousy there.

Curtis: Yeah, there was a wee bit of jealousy there.

So it does come, I think jealousy does come with part of it because everyone's trying to do the same thing. There is thousands and thousands of people out there and we're all trying to do the same thing, aren't we? So it's trying to be different. Yeah, but there's nothing to stop anyone from picking up a camera and just talking to it.

It's so easy now. I. first started putting up a few pictures and then you think, Oh, like everyone's making a few videos. Maybe I'll put up a video. One of the first videos, I slung the iPhone in a tree and it got nearly a million views. So then you think, bloody hell, like I'm on to something here.

Robbie: [00:08:00] My first videos I was really embarrassed.

I couldn't get in front of the camera for a lot of their money.

Tips for Creating Engaging Content

Robbie: And if you want to a little bit of a funny story. So one of my customers started. And he says to me, Robbie, I need my garden done. Do you want to do a skill swap? I said, yeah, I'd be up for that. Got some free lawn treatments and his lawn tidied up and he gave me some help with how to talk to the camera.

So he's just sitting down and having a conversation with somebody about it, in a sort of safe space. And he says, look, Robbie, the best thing to do is just go down into your local park, you And take your phone or your camera and talk to the camera. Doesn't, it doesn't matter if it's recording or not.

Just go down and hold it up and you'll, people will be, you'll find that people are not even looking at you. Nobody's, nobody cares. Everybody's just on with their thing. And it, just walk around and pretend to talk to the camera. And it might, it'll feel really strange. And then he says as well, If you make bullet points before you talk, so you can get these days, you can get teleprompters and stuff.

You can get teleprompters on your phone. I've tried [00:09:00] that. That didn't really work for me. It's just like saying what comes out sometimes. Yeah. What comes out is send home not, but if you make bullet points and read it out yourself a few times and then just try and spit that out in front of the camera, it starts to get a bit easier.

It's very unnerving sitting in front of the camera for the first few times.

Curtis: It wasn't something Kai. I just stumbled across it. Everyone now has started up an Instagram, haven't they? You everyone have put up a few things, but it's then going to the next bit. You put a few videos up, then you might put some stories of yourself up on what you're doing.

And people really interact with you when they can see you as well. If you're hiding behind the camera, you'll still get views, but I think you Yeah, you have to show yourself. Yeah, people hopefully will grow to you as a person. And when they can see you,

Robbie: I can be pretty, I can be pretty random videos.

During COVID people were struggling to, people were struggling to get tools even to do the work that I was trying to, so I really grew my main channel from COVID. But during COVID, a lot of people were struggling [00:10:00] to get the tools to do it. So I did a video about aeration and I showed people a drill and looking back now, Looking back now, you probably wouldn't use a drill.

No. Back then, people were running about with drills. Drill the lawn, but you have to be a wee bit creative as well, yeah, that's just my random, sorry, that's just my random attitude coming out. Yeah. Of, let's drill the lawn.

Curtis: Yeah, I've tried to, me and Mike Day have tried to make some sort of more funnier ones.

Because some of it does get all a bit serious. Yeah, 100%. 100%. That's just, that's as well whenever the side starts showing a bit more of my personality.

Robbie: A lot of, I saw a lot of stuff on YouTube I thought how can I make, how can I make lawn care fun? Yeah. And I'm a bit random at times, but Yeah.

Some people buy into that, . Yeah. Some people buy into that and some people don't. Some yeah. We're never watching them again.

Curtis: Yeah. Pe some people like it, some people just won't, will they? Yeah. And we also talked about before you'd said that you can sometimes get anxious with sometimes what on YouTube or [00:11:00] on Instagram.

Robbie: You it is, all is the, whenever you're on Instagram and people are posting stuff, it's all is the good. You don't see the bad. Yeah. It can be quite stressful.

Curtis: Yeah, I think you don't you don't necessarily show no I don't think anyone really shows all the bad bits. It's not the in thing to do Yeah, it seems to be coming out a bit more I've had it shown bad lawns.

Everyone comments on the bad ones and not the good ones I think mentally for a lot of us guys, we're out in a van all day on our own. It's quite lonely. Yeah. You've got all these struggles with kids money coming in, everything. Customers. Yeah. There's loads of mental health going around problems.

I've suffered with it myself and like the social media can be like a big help. Yeah. Because. A release, but at the same time. Yeah, but you're you could put something up and a load of people will message you. And then you're interacting with them and you could see if someone's I've seen people not posting as much and I think, where's he gone?

And I'll [00:12:00] send a message just reaching out, seeing if they're alright. But yeah, it's not all positive, is it?

Robbie: No, people don't necessarily see the bad and the trolls. Last year, I had a fella that was, anytime I posted a picture, he started off saying to me, your lawn's a set. Or, your lawns used to be shit but now they're good.

And he kept saying it and then I realised it was banter. He said it in every post. Yeah. And he was obviously trying to be funny but I couldn't get my head around it so in the end I had to block him because it was like, I just

Jason: You just saw it as a negative?

Robbie: Yeah, I just saw it as a negative and you're like, I don't need that, it's like

Curtis: When it's coming across through text on a screen, you could read it completely wrong.

Robbie: I think he was trying to be funny but I just couldn't deal with it. No, that's just too much. It's all right if you said it every now and again, or you put a lol or something behind it. Yeah. But he said it the first few times he said it, it's like,

Jason: You're just going to get a lol at the end of all the [00:13:00] comments now on this video. It's a lol. Yeah.

Robbie: Don't put the S word on the end of this video.

Curtis: But yeah, just, it. I think if anyone is struggling, just talk to people. That's all they need to do. Yeah. I'll do it. I'll put my headphones in and I'll start working. I might call someone, just have a chat and see how they're doing. Yeah. There's a lot of people out there.

They seem to be watching what you're doing, but some some don't talk. Less about the mental health. If people have been negative to me, usually I just remove them from the view. Yeah. The best thing to say is, look, thank you for your feedback and close it down. On a lot of these platforms as well, a negative comment is still helping us.

Yeah. It's boosting our post in the algorithm. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think they seem to realize that no, just don't post that it's as simple as that, isn't it? But you'll see a lot of posts. You can actually turn something that's quite [00:14:00] controversial into a really good post because all the negative people will post comments on it.

And then the post does really well, but they're just feeding it.

Robbie: Or you can build your, you can build your content. I tried that recently with something. And the content that I did reached a huge amount of people, but I got quite a bit of stick from it as well. And quite a few people unfollowed me from it.

So it was a, I'm not going to, I'm not going to say what videos it was, but it was a nice little, it was a nice little experience just for my own, just for my own to see what works. Because you always, with social media, you always have to test, you always have to put stuff out. test and measure and see how it goes and then just try and learn from that.

Yeah. If you're watching this podcast on YouTube, don't forget to give us a thumbs up. It's also on Spotify. You can find us in Apple Music and Google Podcasts.

Collaborations and Working with Brands

Robbie: So you touched on something there and you do work with another creator. Do you want to talk a wee bit about that?

Curtis: Yeah, sure. Some of the work [00:15:00] you do with yeah, so me and Mike day few guys on Instagram Yeah, probably know him.

He's got a YouTube page as well We were back as a forwards chatting both using same tools and it was Why don't we make some videos with both of us? Because no one was actually doing it. It's all just, we're all doing it individually. And we thought, Oh, maybe we'll do a video where I've got a tool.

We throw the battery or something and then someone else catches it. So we started doing that. And the views from it were really good. Few of the companies have picked up on it. You're taking, sorry, you're taking ideas. Yeah. Yeah. As, as well, it'd be pretty good. Cause then you can pull the tools you have.

It means all of a sudden you have double the amount of tools that you're talking and it's from then on, no one really knows what to expect because I, it could go anywhere a video, couldn't it? One video, it could just be me or the next video, it could be me. Then Mike comes into it. We've done a few at some [00:16:00] shows showing different brands running the same battery.

But we saw that no one was doing it and thought, oh, we'll go in there. And with two of us it's like you're like a team then, aren't you? Yeah. Bounce ideas off each other. Yeah. If maybe I'm not feeling it as much, Michael, then pick me up and then get me back on board and vice versa.

It works both ways. I come up with the right ideas and he's Robbie, you can't do that. Yeah. And then it happens anyway.

Yeah. It just keeps motivation up, I think with two. Obviously you've got you two guys here working with me. It's just me. So it's quite, I've got to do.

Robbie: It's hard as well, it's hard as well filming yourself. Yeah. It's hard filming yourself and being creative and trying to get the camera there and then doing a bit and then trying, it's really, it can be really slow and tricky.

Curtis: And doing the work. And doing the work, yeah. Trying to do it all is difficult but then you can make it as simple as possible. Some of the videos do really well being really [00:17:00] basic

Robbie: Instagram is really good because everything, the stuff that does well tends to be nice and close and if it's nice and satisfying to watch saying you've got down to a T with a lot of your content.

Curtis: Yeah, I tried to on some of them you could spend a long time editing and you're not really getting any views from it. So it was like I've put the least amount of time into it as possible. And then those videos were doing millions of views, which you think less is more then, maybe.

Robbie: We spend a long time making one video. So one video might take eight hours to make. Or if me and him are at a job and that job's scheduled for four hours, for example, we might end up spending all day at it. And then I might spend four to six hours editing it. So these days you'd think I've got a lot better at editing than filming.

But they're more and more, everyone's more and more complicated. And you're like, oh, that wee shot and that wee shot worked from then, so we'll put that in. And it just takes ages. So these days I make less than one video a week. And then [00:18:00] the content that I'm making for Instagram, I'm taking some of those videos.

A video where I might try and explain how to do something that has taken seven or eight minutes and I'm trying to condense that down into 30 seconds, so it's pretty tricky. Yeah. It's pretty tricky, but it'd be nice if you were just making the content for

Jason: The specific platform.

Robbie: Yes, in that format.

Curtis: Yeah, I got so used to just making for Instagram.

So you've got a maximum of 90 seconds. But to be fair, when you chop stuff up, you've got to make it quite fast because people on Instagram, if it's not interesting, they've swiped. They've gone, haven't they? So if it's not fast, it's not going to work. But then 90 seconds is quite a long video to keep people engaged for.

I think YouTube's kind of different ball game.

Robbie: YouTube's a bit longer, although shorts are the same. You need to get the, you need to get a hook in right away and then it needs to be quite snappy.

Curtis: Yeah. It's not me. I, but I found the shorts on YouTube shows me different sorts, different stylist sorts than [00:19:00] it does on Instagram and TikTok.

Robbie: The sorts are very similar that LL Grahams shows me, but on YouTube it shows you something completely different. Yeah. Which I think maybe is one of the reasons why YouTube's isn't as popular.

Curtis: Yeah. I think with me, I put shorts up because it's what's gonna go on Instagram. It would just go Instagram, YouTube, TikTok.

Yeah. And it, for me, it's all about being consistent. Because that's all I've done, is constantly post. Not overdo it, because then I think if you're putting too much on people's phones They aren't going to interact with it and you won't get any likes or comments or anything. So there's a bit of a balance Like what you're doing.

It's less is more is working for you. Isn't it?

Robbie: Yeah, just I just try and make the best video we can and unfortunately that takes a bit of time. Yeah, that takes a bit of time.

Curtis: Some of mine I'm thinking it's like this time of year I'm not Motivated to film anything. I'm not,

Robbie: it's hard to, it's hard to film this time of year.

And then, [00:20:00] yeah, my thoughts as well about filming this time of year, the reach isn't the same. So hence why we're filming podcasts in Yeah, in the winter months. , that's a, it's a good way to fill, it's a good way to fill in that time. Yeah. It's a good way to fill that in. So how have you, how do you find, how do you find, without naming any brands, 'cause obviously there's a bit of red gear behind me here,

How do you, how have you find working with. Bringing brands to you or working with brands in a

Curtis: I think the more views you're getting, the easier it's, and the more followers you're gaining brands then do start to reach out. I've actually reached out to a few and said, look, do you want me to help out if I can?

If they've got a product that kind of isn't being shown to many people, I feel like I could get that product and then show it. Some companies will reach out to you, but then I found others you have to make the first move But yeah, my dad's motto is don't ask don't get so that's all I do now And if you [00:21:00] don't ask you ain't gonna get it.

Oh,

Robbie: yeah, you just have to accept that you make a kick back there yeah,

Curtis: but then it's like it doesn't really matter does it at least then, you know You've not lost anything asking. Yeah. No. Yeah. It doesn't cost anything to ask. No, it doesn't.

Robbie: I'm pretty lucky with Milwaukee. I've been with them the early days and they've always looked after me and really helped me and Jobber, the sponsors of this show, I've actually been working for them the longest.

I came to work for Jobber. I'd been using the software, I'd been using the software pretty much since I started my business. I struggled with numbers and I was forgetting to send invoices So I took on jobber for my invoicing, and then I realized that there was a lot of people that hadn't invoiced or hadn't paid me and all, and my life became suddenly a lot easier 'cause so much of my free time back.

Yeah. But back then they had a thing that if I recommended a friend, if I recommended somebody to it, then I would get a free month. So I used to be a member of or I am a member of a forum that a lot of gardeners are on the landscape. Just, [00:22:00] yeah. And I wrote a couple of blog posts and I put it on there.

And people started signing up after my recommendations. Yeah. So I was influencing back to 10 years ago before I knew what influencing was. At one stage, I think I was Jobber's main, I was their biggest lead generator. Yeah. And I was getting, so I wrote three blog posts and I'd, I didn't pay for Jobber for a good number of years through those blog posts because people were signing up off that link.

So then whenever, after then I joined YouTube and started making YouTube videos and I said to them, look, do you want to do some more? And then they just clicked the partner program and brought me in. So I've actually, Jobber's been my oldest partner. But the software is just class, and it's really easy for me to recommend because I love it.

I couldn't imagine, I couldn't imagine running my business without it. Yeah, because it frees up so much time. Sorry, I didn't mean to. I had a bit of a flow there, I didn't mean to. Bit of a plug. Bit of a plug, aye, bit of a plug, but yeah, I'm actually a jobber fan, I'm not, yeah. Another saying [00:23:00] is, people buy from people, don't they?

Yep.

Curtis: So if you're there showing, Jobber. People are then going to think, Oh, I need some software. Yep. Robbie's showing Jobber all the time. I'll go and check out Jobber. If he's using it, it's worth a shout, isn't it?

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Robbie: Curtis, thank you very much for coming over and taking part. If you've been watching this podcast, and if you think a friend would find it useful, if you could send them a text or an email with it.

And of course, don't forget to smash the like button down below and follow along for more of our Routes to Revenue podcast. Thank you very much. Thank you, Robbie.

Roots to Revenue

How this small business won on Instagram and gets brand deals that grew his business