People at the Core
A Writer's Life: Sean Welsh on New York, Sobriety and Bukowski
Imagine uprooting your life and plunging into the heart of New York City's literary world.* That's precisely what Sean Welsh did, and in our latest episode, he shares the raw and transformative tale of a writer's journey in a city that never sleeps. From the echoes of laughter in the storied Greenpoint Palace Bar to the trials of sobriety amidst an industry awash with temptation, Sean's story is one of resilience and the relentless pursuit of creative authenticity.
Join us as we explore the delicate interplay between the discipline required to hone one's craft and the spontaneous sparks that ignite artistic innovation. Sean pulls back the curtain on his writing process, revealing how the transition from substance-aided creativity to sober clarity has reshaped his work and life. We also delve into the human experience of navigating relationships, both romantic and platonic, through the lens of Sean's candid reflections on love, distance, and the complex dynamics of open relationships.
In a city that can make or break dreams, our conversation with Sean Welsh is a testament to the spirit of those who choose to carve their path, one word at a time. We thank Sean for the laughter and insights shared, even as technical snafus brought us closer as a podcast family. So whether you're nursing a drink or sipping a coffee, this episode promises to inspire and challenge your perceptions of the extraordinary within the everyday.
*Please be patient with us as we improve our recording and editing techniques and equipment. Every conversation we have had with our guests have been too rich and wonderful to not share. We appreciate you all hanging in there as we continue to learn and grow. Huge thanks to Terressa Tate for salvaging this episode!
*****
*Sean Welsh bonus episode reading excerpt will be available May 3, 2024*
Books by Sean Welsh
One From the Ice
Daylight Maybe
Mentions:
- More: A Memoir of an Open Marriage by Molly Roden Winter
- Women by Charles Bukowski
- Hollywood by Charles Bukowski
- Barfly movie
- Percival Everett
Follow us on Instagram! People at the Core Podcast
Email us! peopleatthecorepodcast@gmail.com
Imagine uprooting your life and plunging into the heart of New York City's literary world.* That's precisely what Sean Welsh did, and in our latest episode, he shares the raw and transformative tale of a writer's journey in a city that never sleeps. From the echoes of laughter in the storied Greenpoint Palace Bar to the trials of sobriety amidst an industry awash with temptation, Sean's story is one of resilience and the relentless pursuit of creative authenticity.
Join us as we explore the delicate interplay between the discipline required to hone one's craft and the spontaneous sparks that ignite artistic innovation. Sean pulls back the curtain on his writing process, revealing how the transition from substance-aided creativity to sober clarity has reshaped his work and life. We also delve into the human experience of navigating relationships, both romantic and platonic, through the lens of Sean's candid reflections on love, distance, and the complex dynamics of open relationships.
In a city that can make or break dreams, our conversation with Sean Welsh is a testament to the spirit of those who choose to carve their path, one word at a time. We thank Sean for the laughter and insights shared, even as technical snafus brought us closer as a podcast family. So whether you're nursing a drink or sipping a coffee, this episode promises to inspire and challenge your perceptions of the extraordinary within the everyday.
*Please be patient with us as we improve our recording and editing techniques and equipment. Every conversation we have had with our guests have been too rich and wonderful to not share. We appreciate you all hanging in there as we continue to learn and grow. Huge thanks to Terressa Tate for salvaging this episode!
*****
*Sean Welsh bonus episode reading excerpt will be available May 3, 2024*
Books by Sean Welsh
One From the Ice
Daylight Maybe
Mentions:
- More: A Memoir of an Open Marriage by Molly Roden Winter
- Women by Charles Bukowski
- Hollywood by Charles Bukowski
- Barfly movie
- Percival Everett
Follow us on Instagram! People at the Core Podcast
Email us! peopleatthecorepodcast@gmail.com
From the Greenpoint Palace Bar in Brooklyn, new York, writers and bartenders Rita and Marissa have intimate conversations with an eclectic mix of people from all walks of life about their passions, paranoia and perspectives. Featured guests could be artists or authors, exterminators or private investigators, or the person sitting next to you at the bar. This is People at the Core.
Speaker 3:Hi Rita, hi Marissa, how are you? I'm good, how are you, excellent. We had a little bit of some issues in the recording studio today.
Speaker 2:Every day is a day to learn something new. The lesson of today is there are ghosts that touch things when we're not looking. Oh, in the palace. You think there are ghosts here.
Speaker 3:I do think there are ghosts that touch things when we're not looking. Oh, in the palace. You think there are ghosts here.
Speaker 2:I do think there are ghosts. That's for another episode, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think you're right, but I agree with you. I've definitely had glasses. I've had some weird things happen to me here in this bar.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've called her Svetlana. I needed her to have a name. Ah, Svetlana Svetlana.
Speaker 3:I don't know what I would have called her, to be honest.
Speaker 2:I just my alter personality. I want to be Svetlana and I have a whole thing and it yeah anyway. Okay, without further ado.
Speaker 3:I want to talk about our guest today.
Speaker 2:He is a local legend here in Greenpoint National treasure, um, mr Sean Welsh. He was born and raised in Cleveland, ohio, and moved to New York City in August, specifically, of 1998. I think we have a question there and All the Best from 2003 until 2006. In 2010, a collection of his short fiction entitled One from the Ice was published by Eclectic Press, receiving a nomination for the Penn Award and the Robert W Bingham Fellowship Award. In 2019, he received an E-Lit Bronze Medal for his debut novel entitled Daylight Maybe, officially releasing it under Eclectic Press in February of 2022. He is currently working on his second novel, as well as his first play. He lives in New York City. Please welcome Sean Welsh, yay Hi.
Speaker 4:Thank you, ladies. It is an honor to be here. I sincerely mean that.
Speaker 3:Oh, we're so happy to have you. Yeah, ladies, it is an honor to be here. I sincerely mean that. Oh, we're so happy to have you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, seriously, it really. This is a marked achievement of progress in my creative life, for sure.
Speaker 3:Aw, absolutely no question.
Speaker 4:So girls Aw Thank you. It's fact, it's factual for sure.
Speaker 2:We're touched. I mean, part of the motivation of this whole podcast was an extension of the reading series which you have participated in that we host here monthly at the palace. Uh was just to give an opportunity for people and voices and stories that we love and we want to know more about. Uh, just another platform and it's it's. I think it's selfish for us. We have all questions and then you come and answer them because we have the podcast now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's just to celebrate the wonderful people that we're surrounded by and all their talents.
Speaker 4:Well, I should tell you that you're tapping into something at a point, I think in Greenpoint, where there's a lot of cool creative things happening and there's a lot of writers and artists in the area, and that you know, the last reading that you hosted was a massive success Packed House and I think that that's direct reflection of you know what's going on in green point. And and then you know the surrounding communities around you know, I think that that's. That's 100, true.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I agree with you oh thank you, we really appreciate it. It's what's going on, you know, yeah, so um we you mentioned that you moved here in 98 I, I did yeah, august.
Speaker 4:August. Yeah, it was hot.
Speaker 3:It is hot. It is hot, it was damn hot. What was? The move.
Speaker 4:What made you do it? Well, I was floundering in Cleveland and a friend of mine the Thanksgiving before was home from New York. He moved to Astoria for the love of a concert pianist and he looked at me. We were playing pool at this you know shitty bar and he, he said, you know, I think you know, I'm looking at me looking for a roommate. You know why don't you come to New York? I had been to New York once before and I just you know why don't you come to New York. I had been to New York once before and I just you know it was. It was.
Speaker 4:I was always kind of a New Yorkophile, if you will. You know, I just I loved everything about it. You know, coming over the GW bridge and this Mustang goes red line like 120, it's like 4 am, it's, you know. Plus, I'm a massive fan of rock and roll. Rock and roll at heart and all the history and whatnot and so on and so forth. It just you know, it just spoke to me in so many ways and you know I said, okay, I was just, you know I had nothing left. You know nothing to lose, really, yeah, and you know I've. I walk a lot. So once I started walking around the city, bars are open till 4 am. What are you crazy?
Speaker 3:yeah I was home yeah, for sure that's fine. Yeah, I kind of felt the same way still to this day. Yeah, still to this day.
Speaker 4:The city has saved me, and that's. That's going to sound crazy, because there's a lot of heinous shit that happens, but I can tell you that this city has saved me so many times, countless times, you know in what way.
Speaker 4:Um, you know, broken love, uh, you know you're. It's a great city to be broken. Yeah, it's a great city to um, to, to learn it's. It opens up, uh, so many doors that you don't have in other places, which you're unwittingly going through, and that saves you in a way, because you forget about what you're going through. And then, oh, opportunities that save you and that progress you and jobs and friends, a network of friends. You know, when I moved to New York, I knew that one guy, my one friend, larry Schlochter, and I'm most proud of that because I look around now and that you know, going back X amount of years, the, the, the friends that I, that I have, or you know that I still have, that's, I'm pretty proud of that, you know and that's I, I think that that's that's new york.
Speaker 4:You know that's new york, a large part of it, for me anyway definitely.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think, the community. I mean that's part of why we're doing this right. The community is so strong right you know I have similar scenario. I was just getting out of school and was like I'm either gonna move to austin texas or new york, and chose new york and never looked back, never looked back you know, you were austin, I was I was actually in my ford s explorer driving.
Speaker 3:I just graduated school from portland, maine, and I was driving through niagara, new york, and we stayed at that. Have you guys ever been to that casino up there? Highly recommend it.
Speaker 4:It's amazing Um not Niagara, New York, but Niagara Falls yeah.
Speaker 3:Niagara Falls is amazing. Niagara, new York is not so good. But I just, I just had a dream and I you know, my friend Lori Barbaro um, this like drummer and babes in Toyland was living in Austin and really trying to sell it to me and it sounded amazing. And then I just gambled all night, went to bed, woke up the next day and I was like I think I'm going to move to New York and you just meet, you know, not to get off subject, but you just meet so many people. Oh yeah, you know, and your career could change in the flip of a coin.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, could change in the flip of a coin, absolutely, and I truly believe that, like art, or you know, whether you're a painter, a writer, a musician, what have you? I think that you have to be open to New York and then if this is going to sound crazy, but I believe it's true I think if you're open to New York, then New York is open to you. Yeah. And I think that you know you either get it or you don't, and those who don't find themselves pretty typical stories.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, I've seen a lot of people that really come out here with this big dream and sort of just get sucked down the well and we're all originally from the Midwest and I think that the exposure I had when I was younger I mean, I moved away when I was young, I moved to Mexico when I was 19. But had I not and I came at the same age here, I don't know if I would have been prepared to embrace all of the things that New York has offered me.
Speaker 4:That's an excellent point.
Speaker 2:And I came at a right point in my age and I almost moved to Austin too. I was in San Francisco and applied to grad schools and I was with my partner, who is my now husband, and I was choosing schools where I thought we both would have an opportunity to start a new life. So I was making a decision as a couple and it was between Austin and New York and went to both and I liked both and I just didn't know, and then it ultimately came down to that I thought both of us would have more opportunities in New York. I loved Austin. It smelled like tortillas and everyone was like my family spoke. Spanglish. It was great.
Speaker 2:But I thought New York would present many more unknown paths for both of us and ultimately that's I mean it's almost 13 years now- oh, wow, yeah.
Speaker 3:So how long? I guess 98 math.
Speaker 4:I think it's 26 years now, so half half my life.
Speaker 3:So did you get right into bartending when you moved here? Great, oh, I can't wait for you. Here we go Ready, open the door.
Speaker 4:And anyone that knows me is going to roll their eyes and be like here we go, so not knowing anybody. I was, I didn't. I mean I attended some bar, but really I was brought, I was, I was waiting tables, waiting tables in Cleveland for the most part and I really didn't have any experience bartending and moving to New York. If you don't know anybody in New York, a lot of the places, a lot of the better places to work at will not hire you. Without the tag was two years of New York City experience.
Speaker 2:Always. So they won't even look at you, even 20 years ago.
Speaker 4:Yeah, totally, and so I needed a job. So I was walking around Midtown, which I have great affection for. People sleep on Midtown. I got news for you, okay, but I had to get a job at the old TGI Fridays at 50th and 7th. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:If you have to go to the bathroom and you're lost, that's a great, that's it is. I've only been to their bathroom.
Speaker 4:But that, but that particular job has grown near and dear to my heart. It was 50th and 7th and it had this big thing on it says america's largest fridays, and there were like two levels and it was the most poorly run, unbelievable, ridiculous place to work, but the people that I met there and it just would pull from all the boroughs. It was a lesson, like a crash course in New York, along with drinking in Midtown, which was, you know, networking, going into, like you know, half my friends at least half my friends are, you know, irish straight, you know, straight from Ireland, and that introduced me into a whole new set of consequences, trials and tribulations. And also, you know, like I said, I can't friends, friends, friends, friends, friends.
Speaker 3:It's the currency that I run on, for sure yeah but uh, yeah, the old tgi's so that's where you start, and how long were you there for?
Speaker 4:uh, let's see 98 to 03 oh wow, yeah, so you really paid your dues. I paid, yeah. And then from 03 to man I think 2020 was at uh, the four-faced liar on west, fourth between six and seven so I was on west fourth for 17 years wow, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then how did you end up here? At. Minnows or Greenpoint I should say where you are now.
Speaker 4:Excellent question, rita, I was, it was COVID. It was crazy time. West Forth was ridiculous man. There were the protests. We didn't know if there was a bar business to go back to, you know, and it was 17 years and I was looking to then break up my time. My friend, my good friend, greg nearhood, along with his partner cassie, and then their partner ollie cleary, started uh, minnows in september of 2020, I believe, and they asked me if that, if I wanted. They knew I was like breaking up shifts or looking to make moves and it was. It was a scary time.
Speaker 4:I didn't know anything about greenpoint. I didn't really know anybody in greenpoint, save for them and a few other heads. But um, at the foreface was, you know, it was a come as you are bar. So you again, you're dealing with. Everybody walks through the village, you know, from astronauts to drug dealers to you know you, you name it. It walks through your door. So it kind of taught me how to deal, you know, with different situations and so on and so forth. And then it was very, it was very apprehensive because Greenpoint at that time, well, greenpoint is to me I mean, there's a lot of people that have been here for a very long time and they love Greenpoint and you know they're loyal to it and so outsiders coming in, you know you got to earn it and I wasn't sure if my act was going to translate or not.
Speaker 2:And I've been well.
Speaker 4:I've been very, very lucky, very fortunate, very, very fortunate. And um, yeah, that's that's how it all went down, and so I also was working in a place in um the East village called B side. Oh yeah, yeah, it was on it was on 13th and B Beauty Ave, and I got hired there as well as Minnows, and then I consequently left Foreface. Gotcha. And so.
Speaker 3:So leading into that, I hope you don't mind just asking so you don't drink.
Speaker 4:I don't no.
Speaker 3:Are you okay, talking a little?
Speaker 4:bit about that. Sure, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:More. So I'm really interested in you know, and Risto right now is not drinking as well.
Speaker 4:Oh, right on.
Speaker 3:But just how, being in the bar world and bartending sort of how you feel about that, if that makes sense. You know, in the the beginning was it hard, or was it just something that you decided and that was that and it just was easy to bartend?
Speaker 4:you know, I always think about that sober bartender in the face of temptation, in the face of temptation I thought about that a lot too, um, because, um, I I mean, I was a massive alky and about 80 pounds heavier and there were a lot of without you know dipping in. You know too deep to it. You know there were there were times where I just was looking at myself in the mirror, going you know, you know how this ends. I had, you know, some of my heroes, you know who were bartenders that were passing before, and it was always a question of you know how this ends, guy, you know how this goes, you know, you know how this goes, but it's still, you know, the pull of it was the life of drinking.
Speaker 4:Drinking in itself is a lifestyle, and there's a lot of that lifestyle that I still miss. And there's a lot of that lifestyle that I still miss, but it just, you know, I was working a shift and I had the DTs super bad and I went down behind the bar and I got carried out on the stretcher and I was laying in bed on 7th Avenue and there was kind of just a turning of the corner a corner, excuse me. There was kind of just a turning of the corner, you know a corner, excuse me, and just kind of. You know how this goes. How's it going you?
Speaker 4:know, and that's after, you know, years and years of abuse, you know, and it just kind of it was a weight lifted and my grandfather was the same way. You know it was enough, it was enough, but I still had to pay the rent. You know, yeah, and um, I was, I'm lucky enough where I could still do it. There's a lot of people that can't be around alcohol, you know, like I said, you know I say I'm very, very lucky and I am very, very, very, very much, and that's how it was for me, you know, and that's that. And I can't say that I'll never have a drink. You know I miss wine. I cook a lot, you know, and I miss having a glass of wine when I cook. I go to steakhouses a lot. I miss having a glass of wine. You know what?
Speaker 3:I mean yeah, of course.
Speaker 4:But you got to wait. I'm able to weigh that out going. All right, look pal, you know what happens when you go this way. Let's try it this way. And the weight started to fall off me, which kept me not drinking and also gaining self-respect when I'm looking in the mirror. That was something that I never reared at the core. You're dealing with the core a lot. I really shook myself to the core. I felt that it was brittle, it was shaken. I really went there with it and that was enough yeah, I think that makes total sense.
Speaker 3:How many years have you been a teetotaler for?
Speaker 4:so, yeah, it's important for me to say this I still I love me a handful of shrooms. Who doesn't? All right?
Speaker 2:I started microdosing and it's been fantastic.
Speaker 4:That's brilliant. Yeah, weed is a big part of my life, you know. But you know, I kind of I'm playing a balance game with that now too, you know, but it's six and change now. Yeah, that's really impressive.
Speaker 3:That's great I mean this is a hard city to not you know, I go through stages where I quit for a while and then start again and you know it'll just slowly builds. But this city is a really hard city. But again, anytime I quit, I've got to be honest like I'm. I'm smoking pot, I'm doing mushrooms I'm yeah you know, I'm self.
Speaker 4:I'm such a self-medicator that I have to do it right, right, right, right right, and I'm trying to use it more in a recreational, you know, uh. Aspect as opposed to like you know you need this to get and you know, to get through the day. I I'm finding that I don't so much anymore. It's kind of like do know you need this to get and you know to get through the day. I I'm finding that I don't so much anymore. It's kind of like do you really need to puff up right now?
Speaker 4:yeah, it's kind of like no man, you know, and I was doing some stupid things. I was pertaining to weed, you know, leaving doors open. That I didn't, before asking people what they wanted three seconds later you know that's not me. I have a pretty sharp memory, you know yeah even though there's plenty I'd like to forget, so moving forward with that.
Speaker 3:How did you know I want to. I don't know how to word this correctly, but good, but um, you know, just writing. How has your, you know, not drinking? Do you feel like you can write? Do you write more now or did you write more back then? You know, there's always that, like I have so many books that my father constantly sends me on alcohol and the writer and how that you know how many writers are influenced and affected by alcohol, or really let alcohol kind of guide them down their creative path.
Speaker 4:It's a massive influence. You romanticize it. Um, the writers that I, you know, um, that kind of brought me up or that I got into, that were massive influences, were, all you know, major alkeys or had something. You know, there's something wrong with you, it fills a void, etc. Etc. Etc.
Speaker 4:I, I think when I quit, you know, I was hiding behind the fact that I was a writer who was an alky, and when I quit I went through a really horrendous breakup. But it opened my eyes to living creatively. Like, okay, pal, you know, how are you? Are you a writer? And how are you manifesting? It's? How is, how is it manifesting?
Speaker 4:Like, do you live creatively? Do you think creative? First, are you? You know how? What are, what are you? What are your regiment? Do you have a regiment? Can you really call yourself a writer if you're not doing that, like you? Writing has never left me. It's always been a cathartic gift, but now it's time to pay it back by being responsible to it. And I don't think that I could do that as clearly with alcohol as I can without it. A lot more serious. So I would say in a nutshell I would still be writing if I was drinking, but I don't think I would. I would be living a a creative life, which has been the most fulfilling and content um progress that I've ever made in my life.
Speaker 2:So I and you know you had it's your bio um that you were running a lit mag.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that was, that was during the, the using years. Oh yeah, Um, so what? How did you get into that? And one of my questions is did you find your your writing this is segwaying a little bit from the drinking stuff, but did you find your writing change as you were editing and responsible for putting that together and critiquing other people's work as an editor and deciding what to publish? Did that affect your own creative process?
Speaker 4:100 when we I started it with a friend of mine a good friend of mine who was an editor on One from the Ice and Daylight Maybe His name is Charles Muller and another TGI soldier. And it's funny, I was filling in a shift at the TGI's on 34th and 8th and I walked into the kitchen to get something and he's setting up the salad station. He looked back and he's got a big black eye and I just kind of looked at him.
Speaker 4:I'm like hell yeah this guy and I are going to be friends, so we had a lot of the same tastes, a lot of the same interests. And so we had a lot of the same tastes, a lot of the same interests, and we wanted to put something out that was that was encompassing. You know, there were different parts, like, for instance, there was a guy who had a column that we would do and he called it cooking for your lady and he would have a dessert recipe and like a little, you know what he know, don't forget the dessert, fellas. You know that kind of deal, and it was like it was more of a slice of life rather than featuring, though we had short stories, but it was like photo. You know photographers, and you know we had this one section called charles and I went out and we would just hit the town and we would write about it and you know, we kind of it was.
Speaker 4:It was really cool, I mean, there it it was. It was uh, it showed me how serious people could be about what they got going on. But I was also, I wanted to. It furthered the progress or or or the vision of me writing of what I had to to get it down as an author. You know, I mean I I was writing slice of life stuff but I really wasn't writing. You know, it was just kind of like commentary and it, you know, procuring what I thought was cool or what we thought was cool, but it wasn't really. You weren't really, I wasn't really doing it you know wasn't really doing it.
Speaker 2:So was it like character profiles from the bar?
Speaker 4:It could be, but it was a lot more than that. You know it was. You know stuff that we thought was cool, and then we would, you know, get together and we had a graphic designer come in I was living on the Upper West Side at the time and we would literally go over her shoulder and she would lay it out and then we'd take that floppy disk to the printer oh, I love that. Or email or something. Yeah, something like that. And you know we would. I think we finished with a circulation of about 800 that we were paying out of pocket, but it was also very difficult to track everybody down and get it out, and we did it for three years. I'm very proud of that as well. Yeah, it was pretty cool.
Speaker 2:So segue do you submit now to any type of literary journal, or is that not part of your process as a writer? Now, not right now it's um.
Speaker 4:I'm. I'm really focused on getting this, uh, this second novel, done. I'm in the, I'm in the, I'm in refinement mode. I'm in edit mode you know, yeah, wow she's, she's a beast.
Speaker 4:Yeah, she's big she's got a lot of curves yeah it, uh, I figured I get the love story out of the way you know. So, um, it's about uh, this is cringeworthy because it's it's so. It's so, it's cause it's a love story. It's like, oh, that's original, but it it's, you know it, it's all how you tell it. I'm not, you know, I'm not here to reinvent the wheel, it's all how I tell it. It's about a.
Speaker 4:The protagonist is based on a friend of mine who's a saxophonist and he opened up a world of jazz to me, and so he is working on his second album and he goes cold and he's walking the streets. He doesn't know what to do, scared out of his mind. He starts going into this diner. Lo and behold, there's a lonely girl there and she.
Speaker 4:They kind of open up their worlds to each other, that they're closer and more intertwined than they both originally know and understand, and that's the first part of the book, and the second part of the book has to deal with mentorship in London. They both are in London and they fall in love, and then he comes out of it, of course, and then he comes out of it, of course, and she's now exposed to a world that she's never been a part of that. She doesn't know if she understands or not, and it's all in a timeline and she's had a little experience for herself. So now she's got to make some decisions and then it goes from there. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna give it away yeah, don't give it away, all right.
Speaker 3:Who doesn't love a love story?
Speaker 4:I love a lot of people I but yeah, but I I think the more I read it, the more I I really have. I love the relationship that I have with it and I love working on it every day. That's great. So you're right at the editing stage, right now, yeah, I mean so the first draft is done, so the first draft was finished in June and I took a month off. I believe you have to let it marinate for a while.
Speaker 4:And then so I start. The first book is in the computer and saved. The second book I switched to freehand in the old Moleskine notebooks. Wow, and it was just flowing a lot better that way. So now the translation from the notebook into the computer that's what I'm doing right now, which serves as an initial editing process, but it's also very slow, so it's kind of fighting through that every day. But the more I go through it, the more I get into it, the more I send these characters they're really coming to life. Oh, I love that, yeah, and I'm pretty. It's not good, it's marinating pretty well for me.
Speaker 3:So we'll see how many notebooks was it total?
Speaker 4:One, two, three. It's marinating pretty well for me, so we'll see how many notebooks was it total? One, two, three. It's going to be about 10. Wow. I love it.
Speaker 2:She knows I'm a Luddite. I love it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Marissa, she's teaching me her style of editing, which is you sort of. You know you're typing it out of the computer and then you repaste it or copy, and paste it, you keep everything. So she'll keep every sentence, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because sometimes I'll go back and I'm like, ah no, I went on this tangent and I don't like it. I actually made me realize that I wanted the original but I had to go through the process, that I wanted the original but I had to go through the process, and sometimes I'll just take one sentence or one turn of phrase or a word from the new part to put it into the old part. But she's watched me like in real time, especially when we were coming up with kind of the tagline for the podcast and we were like this, this, this, and I'll have like four different sections. I fucking hate log lines.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can write pages and and pages, but you make me write two consentences and I'm done uh, but she watches me clip and paste and move and things and she's like what are you doing? Yeah, what are you doing anything like that before and and I'm, I'm pretty old school, I you know everyone's with the calendars and the alerts and all of this, and I am like a psychopath where my, my calendar is like da vinci's, you know lost pages.
Speaker 3:You can't read my handwriting anyway.
Speaker 2:Um, but then I have this method and arrows and circles well, that's just it.
Speaker 4:method regiment creating regiment, regiment Creating regiment is that's another thing. That's another thing that I probably couldn't be doing if I was drinking is regiment. Regiment and process are integral. Do you have?
Speaker 2:so do you have a typical like your free day routine, like, is there something, a process? You know everyone talks about the morning pages, or blah, blah, blah, or like your morning routine, everyone focuses on that, but everyone's creative space or productive space happens at different times.
Speaker 4:Um, um, I, I do, um, actually on my I am. Currently I have only have one day off, which is Wednesdays. Um, and I actually tend not to. I probably will hit it today, because I did it yesterday, but I tend not to write on my days off, I tend to let the days off be the days off. Um, because this is, I want to get deeper and deeper and more and more. There could always be more work, more work, more work, more work, more work, more work.
Speaker 4:Um, I start, I do about anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour in the morning, and then I've started a night session, so when I I work during the day, so I get home at about eight, uh, shower up, kind of refresh, and then I'll hit it for another 45 or an hour at night, and so that's been six days a week and it's it. You have to do it. Like there's something inside you that says, because I'm inherently a lazy motherfucker, I don't. I mean, I can procrastinate with the bed like you procrastinate, you know, and there's no time for that anymore, and it's, it is a responsibility to the bed. Like you procrastinate, you know, and there's no time for that anymore, and it's, it is a responsibility to the work. Like you have to do it. Like if it's not inside you that you have to do it, don't fucking do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's paraphrasing bukowski there yeah, I mean I agree completely with that. I mean I go through, just I'm more like that. You know, you read about like david foster wallace right, where he would just spend like a month watching TV and doing nothing else, and then write for a month.
Speaker 4:Right you know I have a tendency to be more like that where, like I, let the well dry up and then, right there, you hit it, right there on the head. You have to let the well fill up, yeah.
Speaker 3:You have to, but you know I miss those regimented days.
Speaker 2:I miss the days in writing school where I was forced to write every day.
Speaker 2:You know it's now. It's like, oh, do I watch Dateline or write? And it's like, I'm gonna be honest, dateline usually wins absolutely. I'm like the opposite, where I spend most of my writing time not writing. I walk a lot. I used to have a dog walking service. I wrote half of my memoir just walking. You know what, just walking and writing. And then maybe I'll do some voice notes to myself or just like little cheat sheets that trigger it for me, but it's it's digesting and processing, where I'm actually not sitting down typing for the time, but I'm writing all of the time and like I've gotten into weight lifting and things like that, and so it's a lot of like processing as I'm physically moving you've touched on something and if we're going to go that route with it.
Speaker 4:Like I say, I walk a lot, I never stop writing. There's always a tangent going, there's always a line, there's always something going on and it's really difficult to turn off and it's really difficult to um, not work yourself up like what? All of a sudden you're in this daydream, working yourself up about shit you can't control and you realize you've been doing it your whole life and it's like whoa, whoa, whoa. What are? You doing.
Speaker 4:Stop, look at where you are, and it's not pertaining to the story, but maybe there's a note in there. I'm constantly. I have the the note app in my phone is the most important part of my phone oh yeah, I'm always talking to it absolutely absolutely it's, it's a constant living thing, and it should be so. It's for me, for me, yeah I agree.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think that's very true. I, anytime I'm there's always a line going in my head right now working on my new novel, there's this line that's been stuck my head that I just want a chapter to start. I'm like that ain't chicken, because they're eating chicken out of a can. That's like been in my head, yeah, and then I'll just build a place, a whole story around it, but it changes daily, almost you know, just with that writing, that idea that story.
Speaker 4:But that's that's amazing because it's a living, breathing thing yeah, you know, as writers we understand that.
Speaker 2:I'm fascinated by my husband, who always has a podcast or music or things, and he's walking me, has this input always. I'm like I have so much noise in my head, I don't't need to add more and I need the quiet so I can read the sentences, so I can hear the voices, so I can remember. You know all the parts and pieces.
Speaker 4:I just it's, I don't know, yeah, I'm right there with you. I'm right there with you. That inner dialogue is, it's a balance, everything's balanced. But you know, it's really the tightrope of walking it and dealing with it.
Speaker 2:And going back to the drinking, sometimes it's like too much and that's where you need to dull sometimes.
Speaker 4:Well, that's yeah, I mean sitting at the bar. January was one of my favorite months to drink. I'd start at Columbus Circle and work my way down to the Village. Man, those were the best you. Rainy, quiet, you know. You. You roll up in the happy hour. You're fucking throwing on some good music on the jukebox. It's some shithole you love and you know. It's just. I miss that shit. You know, and it was. You know, that's how alcohol made you feel Romanticize it, dulled it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But it's momentary.
Speaker 2:And there was always commiserating company. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah there's always somebody, yeah, yeah, there's always somebody to commiserate with at the bar, yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, that's a very good point, you know.
Speaker 2:Misery loves company, but you're never alone.
Speaker 4:Yeah, alone, and yes, which could be a great thing, even still, yeah, you know right, I love, I love the. The bar will always be a part of me, always. It's to me.
Speaker 2:Everything flows through the bar, everything I call the, I call the palace, the community center. You know, there's a group of us who, like, hang out at four or five o'clock and then we're all home before dark, before the kids come out. Um, but even not drinking as long as I make sure that I don't isolate myself is that I show up and I have my club soda, um, have a non-alcoholic beer or something to just you know the mechanics of it. It's like I actually don't want to get drunk, I just want to be a part of this and I need something to do with my hand.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a lifestyle, it's a, you know it's. Drinking is just isn't, you know, drinking. It's a, it's a, it's a procession, if you will. It's a ritual, it's. It's so many different things. It's again. It's alive, you know what I mean. And it flows, but it all you know, has its, has its drawbacks.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it does. I mean, I've always been jealous of those people that can have like a drink. You know that person that would like sit on their beer, for, like your friend, you'd go to dinner and they'd have the one glass of wine and you're on your like fourth glass of wine. Yeah, just to get a personality.
Speaker 4:Yeah, See, I've always been jealous of the motherfuckers who could put a 50 away or whatever some ungodly amount, and then hit it the next morning like nothing ever happened. And those people exist. And. I've always been jealous, always been jealous of those people.
Speaker 3:Oh, those people are monsters.
Speaker 4:I try to be those people for my entire life. I can't, I couldn't do it.
Speaker 3:I just love the person that like. I love the idea that you can just sip on a glass, but the monster inside of me opens up the minute I crack something open.
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh, yeah.
Speaker 3:So not so much at my age now, but definitely in my 20s. Yeah, you know, I would. Just I can consume Consume anything and everything.
Speaker 4:Monster's a good way of putting it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the monster.
Speaker 2:Well, shall we Sean it's been awesome.
Speaker 3:Well, we've got a few. We've got question roulette. I'll let Marissa explain a little bit about what we do here and then we'll play a little fuck LB.
Speaker 4:Let's do this.
Speaker 2:All right. So this little section we're calling question roulette, where none of us well, Rita and I don't know the questions, so we're just pulling them at random and we're all going to answer and I can't give any more information because I have none Well you can't do one. We just discussed that one. We just discussed that one, so it's not gonna under what conditions could you have an open relationship and make it work? That's a general question.
Speaker 4:Oh, man, that's crazy that you pulled that out, because I just jotted a note down about this. Yeah, I just did it. It really I can't believe that you pulled that all right, let's go.
Speaker 2:It's on your mind, no, I didn't mean it like that I mean, I had to answer it.
Speaker 4:I think that I think that that should be a question for you too.
Speaker 3:No, um, and we can all answer that, we'll do three questions that everyone can answer.
Speaker 4:Okay, Me first. You can have an open relationship, as in you love somebody, you're living with them and whatever happens happens. What are the param? I don't know. I have to be.
Speaker 2:It's just the question, you interpret it how you choose to, I guess to be. It's just the question, you interpret it how you choose to.
Speaker 4:Could you do it, maybe I don't think that I Well, here's how I answered it the other day to myself.
Speaker 3:Okay, I love it.
Speaker 4:And keep note this, that I was alone when I answered it myself. I don't think that I could do it Because to me in my head, at my core, how I am, how I know I am something that is so safe I mean, let's face it, better than coke and heroin and alcohol. When love is on, there is nothing better, man. Love is the best in such an intimate set of like day-to-day setting, to to have it be open with somebody else. That's just not how I operate. So I don't, I don't think that I could do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have been with my partner for nearly 17 years, which is insane, cause I'm only 28. 27. I would have guessed Anywho. Yes, and we've been married. It will be 10 years in March.
Speaker 3:Congrats.
Speaker 2:Thanks. He's my best friend. He's been my business partner, my travel partner, my puppy dog co-parent Good dude, by the way. He's great and I don't want to share Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think everyone needs other relationships, that one person should not be your only relationship. But as far as physical intimacy, no, and I think that our physical intimacy is richer because of all of those years, because of all of those experiences through good, the bad, the ugly, the suffering, the joys, the triumphs. That makes our physical intimacy that much deeper than just getting your rocks off. And I don't want, honestly, I have friends who are single and it scares me to think of strange. I'm like that's not exciting for me, that's scary for me. We still learn about each other and that's the thing too is that we're constantly changing. I'm very fortunate that we've changed together, that our paths have been parallel through all of these changes as human beings, as individuals and as our relationship. So I'm very fortunate for that and I I have no desire for good for you.
Speaker 4:Those are gifts, man congratulations.
Speaker 3:I've actually been in quite a few open relationships, really long-term relationships do tell mostly, you know, mostly based on um situations. To be quite honest, you know, I was with a guy on and off for 10 years that was a touring musician, so he was gone six to nine months out of the year and then a five year with a touring musician and then you know another five year and we just sort of I'm really into dan savage, love dan savage.
Speaker 3:If you don't know who that is, he's a sex writer. He's been writing for ever and he has this podcast.
Speaker 3:It's great, um. Did it always work? No, absolutely not. Was there a lot of jealousy involved? For sure, yeah, a lot of insecurities? Yes. I think for me the only way it would work is, again, it would have to be situational, like if you know, if we are apart for a long time, I don't think I necessarily would need the physical intimacy of another person, but I could understand if my partner did, and I don't think in the past I haven't really taken it personal you know, would I like to be someone's number one and only right 100 are situations that easily categorize these days as a single woman.
Speaker 3:They're not. You know things as you know as you know. I'm not sure if you're single, sean I am yeah but. But it does, it gets complicated, you know complicated very and, and you know, the older they get the notice.
Speaker 3:You know, I just went on a date, a first date in like a year, a couple of days ago, and it's just interesting to see what I'll put up with these days, like what I'm interested in, what I'm not interested in. And how, you know before I just this level of nervousness and like they have to be the one, it doesn't really take place in my mind anymore right I, I guess.
Speaker 3:To sum it up, I, I. I think the older I get, the more I'm open to the gray areas, less than the black and white. Now, you know if you would have asked me this when I was a kid 1920s, right? Yeah? I think, I would have said no, I you know, I'm such a soulmate believer right now, well, they're, they're.
Speaker 4:I mean, I think that you know, you see, the well I. I see more open, quote-unquote open relationships with people who travel. You know people like like look man, I'm a realist, this is the price of doing business.
Speaker 4:There's people that it works for yeah, and there's people against it yeah hell, no, no that's exactly what I'm saying yeah, I mean, I like, if I wish, I mean my, I think life would be a lot easier for me if I, you know, like, look, it is what it is you know what I mean. And there's people who you know that's, that's how they do it, you know, and that's great. And you know I I'm kind of always jealous of those people that are able to do that, but I I can't do it and, like I said they, it has not been successful.
Speaker 3:I am single now, Well right. But, but I also I do want to bring up, you know, just a little like Dan, savagey thing too is like you think about people and their sexual fetishes too, and some people have these things inside of them that they acutely you know and and I respect that.
Speaker 3:And not only do I respect that, I think that it's a very healthy thing to go out and have those things take a place and that's why I truly believe in, in in sex work and having it safe and legal and healthy and, and you know, and I think that that might put me in an open relationship- in that sense of like, maybe there's something that I'm not really comfortable doing, but my partner really wants it to happen.
Speaker 2:I think I'd be fine with him going out and him or her going out and doing that, and that's I mean that goes back to. The core. Foundation is trust and communication. And if you can't trust the person that you're with and be able to communicate your fears, your wants, your desires, and if they're not able to fulfill those things, then you have an open, honest conversation about that. I'm just, yeah, I think 17 years ago maybe I would be open to that. Right, I'm not at this point, 17 years into this relationship that I've built, that I'm satisfied with that oh, there you go right there.
Speaker 3:Do you think your husband's going to be sad when he hears this, or happy?
Speaker 2:I oh there, you go right there. Do you think your husband's going to be sad when he hears?
Speaker 4:this or happy, I'm just kidding. Oh Ken's a loyalist, no matter what.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say. I remember hearing a conversation about that. It's a memoir it's called More a memoir of an open marriage by Molly Roden Winter. That just came out and it's kind of the talk of the town and it's on my list just because I'm interested. And she's a mom, she has children.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I am fascinated by it. I think having kids would change things, which is why Well, I think you have to be very compartmentalized as a person. You have to know what you want and what you don't want, and therefore the boundaries work and you're able to function in whatever, however you break it down within yourself.
Speaker 2:Which is why I think I could have, as a young person, where I was still figuring those things out of what I wanted, what I was willing to do, what I was expecting- yeah right.
Speaker 3:Oh, I mean, I think the first one I had was in my 20s and it was very. I was just insecure Okay, I'll do whatever you want me to older man I'll be, you know, totally obviously, and just like, yeah, sure, okay, if that's what you want to do, we'll try it. You know, and I think the last situation I was the one that came up with it and said maybe we should try this. I'm not ready to leave you yet, but these were also taking place at the end of relationships. It was almost like a relationship solver versus. You know a lot of people at least when I listen to Savage Love, which I'm plugging, everyone listens to it it's a lot of people that actually are married and just kind of bored or looking for something else, but want to stay together yeah, I don't know, and maybe it works for them at the time, and then, after they're done with it, they're just kind of come together and be like, yeah, we did it.
Speaker 4:We're not, you know, but we're still together.
Speaker 3:You know, could go like that too yeah, and I think you summed up perfectly. It's just trust and communication in any relationship, intimate friendship?
Speaker 2:yeah, all right, let's do one more question, okay, uh, and then?
Speaker 3:we'll have to move on and call it a day.
Speaker 2:Okay, I will pull, I will pull, I put this is what I pulled. This is what I pulled. Okay, look at it.
Speaker 3:Look at it, cars. When do you feel lonely? When I'm surrounded by people. I always have said that.
Speaker 4:Great fucking answer. It's true, that is so fucking right on.
Speaker 3:Yes, I think about that modest mouse line all the time.
Speaker 4:Like I'm lonesome when you're around, but I'm never lonesome when I'm by myself. I'm a big fan of Richard Ashcroft and he has an album entitled Alone With Everybody and for years I didn't really understand what that meant, until I just kind of started digging into myself. And it's so true. But I am not, I have, I'm a loner, you know. So a lot of times I prefer to go it alone, but a lot of times when I do feel lonely, it is surrounded by people. And you have to I check myself like yo, what's wrong with you? You know, it's a feeling, it's just. You know to I check myself like yo, what's what's wrong with you? You know what it? It's a feeling, it's just. You know. I think when you're open, you know, as writers or artists, your natural conduit to other people's.
Speaker 4:You know emotions and vibe and energy and so on and so forth yeah and I think that that you, you know, that could be a lonely place to be, you know that could be a lonely place to be, you know, can cause that could dawn on you all of a sudden you know, yeah, I
Speaker 2:feel like you stole my answer. Um, I, yeah, I think, being around, not feeling seen as a person, like, known. So when I moved to New York, we knew people because of my husband from the Bay Area and I was going to grad school and there were, you know, just by circumstance, uh, friendships, acquaintances, um, but I didn't feel like I knew anyone or anyone knew me other than my husband and he was working all the time. So I was alone because I didn't feel, yeah, I didn't feel seen, I didn't feel, um, yeah, I was.
Speaker 2:I was lonely, um, cause I had come from when we left San Francisco. We left in part, we were bored, I was complacent, everything was very easy, it was lovely, we'd get burritos and ganja treats and hang out in Dolores park and we had friendships and all of this and I had work, but it wasn't stimulating or satisfying and I was bored from being content and I wanted to shift things and I wanted to challenge myself and I knew I had to make a very drastic move to do that. But coming here, I was surprised how lonely I felt and nobody gave a fuck.
Speaker 2:Like it's new york, nobody gives a fuck. Like I'm going and I'm doing like everything was hard doing laundry, going grocery shopping, like everything was fucking hard. I was like this is it's frustrating and I'm alone and no one seems to be suffering like me, like on an existential.
Speaker 2:I think, LA might be, though you're stuck in a car yeah, I mean at least you're surrounded by people here um, but yeah. I felt um isolated you feel that way? Now? No, absolutely not, and it's weird because I'm actually probably more alone now. Um, but no, I built a community and I've I, yeah, I know places people know me exactly exactly.
Speaker 2:Um, no, I think, and especially like during COVID Greenpoint was key, I think, to my mental health, having been in the neighborhood for over 10 years and walking around with the dogs and, you know, having had a business here, just being on the streets and seeing familiar faces and knowing people's names and people knew my name, people knew my dog's names. Familiar faces and knowing people's names and people knew my name, people knew my dog's names. We would sit on our stoops we have three, two houses on either side of me and we would sit on the stoops and all talk to each other.
Speaker 3:Yeah, new york, saving you man and it is another example, you know all right, on that note, new york saving us, which I truly, I truly believe that yeah, you know I think that listeners that that aren't from the art, you know as as much. As we say it's lonely, I mean the community here is gigantic.
Speaker 3:You know right just open to it, open to meeting new people and different people, and that's part of what this podcast is is is introducing you to people that that we do meet, you know and and get to know, and it's you know. It's a beautiful thing and that's why I love this city so much. You know in this community so much oh yeah, I need inspiration.
Speaker 2:You hop on the train or just walk. You can walk for a day, walk to Central Park. I mean it'll take me hours, but all the things that will pass in front of my eyes there's not.
Speaker 3:Central Park twice twice a week, man it's fantastic yep all right, so next and last here we go we have a little game, oh boy, I know it's great, but you know what's the?
Speaker 3:usually called. It's like kill, kill mary, kill mary we play. Fuck phil b. Oh, you get the flat time. You kill when you get the d1. Now this is gonna be a little weird. It's the first one I just came up with, right thinking about you. Okay, so I'm gonna do. We can do other three if we want, but I'm thinking because of the conversations that we had today okay, and everything we talked about. I think it should be wachowski, I knew you I knew, I fucking knew you would do that I knew because I've been.
Speaker 2:he's been pop for the last week. Who was just saying if Bukowski was here he'd be like fuck, $17 for a ham and cheese sandwich. Oh, yeah, so I blew it. He's been, yeah, he's been popping up the last. It's the weather too. Yeah, bukowski, sorry.
Speaker 4:He's a massive influence of mine.
Speaker 3:He was a massive influence of mine. Mine too, Huge, huge. I mean I just remember tearing through getting his stuff and just thinking this is the right thing to do.
Speaker 4:What was your first Bukowski read?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, Probably women. Mine was Barfly.
Speaker 4:Mine was women.
Speaker 3:Was it.
Speaker 4:And because of I was working at this, well, a shitty job called Checker Office Supply, and I was telling people that I was writing and I kind of was, but not really yeah, it was more drinking more.
Speaker 4:And we were at this bar and there's these, the two guys, one of them that owned it, one of them was right hand man and we're sitting there we're drinking. The one turns to me and he's like you ever see the movie Barfly? And I'm like no, I'm like what's it about? He's like it's about this writer Bukowski. Yeah, he kind of goes around and he's like this total alcoholic, not saying you, which totally was me, and they're like and he just, he's all about just just living, like you don't have to be anything. In fact, he doesn't want you to be anything. And I'm like what? And then I fucking like rented it, like the next day you might rent, you know, videos and I must, uh man that was rourke, right, mickey rourke, mickey rourke yeah, and in hollywood he goes through the progression of how that all came to be hollywood's one of my holly oh man that him tearing up tom jones.
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh my god. And then?
Speaker 3:the scene where they're like in the backyard. I think about it all. They're in the backyard and they're like so poor, whoever the director is, and so he's cooking his, the their, pet yeah I forgot it was like a chicken. Maybe it was probably a chicken or a pig or something, and he's just sobbing as it's like on the stick spinning. Oh, I highly recommend it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, loved Hollywood, oh Hollywood's great. And Barfly, oh man.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, post Office too.
Speaker 4:The Post Office Changed my life man, because I was floundering, you know, and Bukowski was a friend, he became a friend man. He's like hey pal, I feel you. Here's what I got you know?
Speaker 3:Have you seen those interviews with him? Rough?
Speaker 4:Rough. There's a few scenes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when he's like kicking his girlfriend.
Speaker 4:Well, I wasn't going to go there, but yeah, yeah, that's kind of rough.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's just.
Speaker 4:This is an alcoholic and we talked about monsters. That's the. You know. We romanticized some alcohol and then you got to, you know, one with the other Death and this monstrousness of it, and you know, so, on and so forth. Monstrosity of it, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So we got to answer the question and you know who John Fonte is right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, after.
Speaker 3:Dusk and all that.
Speaker 4:Well, you can't have Bukowski without Fonte. Exactly, I know.
Speaker 3:It's kind of a I almost wish I would have thrown in a Burroughs, but that's okay.
Speaker 4:Uh right. It's a different party? Yeah, exactly, but he's there, yeah, kind of.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what's everyone's choices?
Speaker 4:So what's the we have to?
Speaker 3:kill, be and fuck.
Speaker 4:Kill. See, how could you kill any of the three of them? I know that's the problem.
Speaker 3:It's just a choice we have to make. I guess I would probably I'll just start it off Probably I'm going to say it Kill Fitzgerald, be Bukowski, no, and have sex with Fonte. I guess I don't know. It's really hard for me, guys, this is really hard.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's very difficult because, leading from Bukowski for myself and how I was exposed to it, leading Bukowski and Fitzgerald at the time was a massive influence. Before I started reading Hemingway, there was Fitz.
Speaker 3:Yeah, same.
Speaker 4:And that was an open door. Like you know, I read this Side of Paradise and it was just an epiphany, and not only for the work, but it introduced me to the expats, you know, and a lifestyle that I romanticized, the how to live and so on and so forth. Oh man, I don't know, I guess I would go. I'd probably I'd kill Fonte. Yeah, I know, the more I think about it, I think I'd kill Fonte.
Speaker 3:I'd just. Yeah, I know, the more I think about it, I think I'd kill Fonte too, yeah.
Speaker 4:I can see, like I can see me putting him in a corner and going. Sorry, pal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, me too.
Speaker 4:I'd feel really bad about it yeah, and then what was it Fuck?
Speaker 3:Kill B.
Speaker 4:Oh, chinaski's going to be a wild ride, so I'd probably fuck him. And then the everlasting greatness of the chandelier aspect, that is F Scott Fitzgerald. I'd probably B Fitzgerald, yeah, I like it. That's my answer.
Speaker 2:I think I'm going to agree with Sean. Yeah, my answer I. I think I'm gonna agree with sean. Yeah, um, the wachowski scares me, um, I think, yeah, yeah, all right, be fits, yeah, but then the whole z thing I don't yeah.
Speaker 4:Listen, they all had rough lives. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:There were like 20 years there, you know what I mean Now.
Speaker 3:I'm like today, Right.
Speaker 4:One other thing with Fitzgerald, too, was the time that he lived in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that would have been great.
Speaker 4:Paris, the Jazz Age, you know.
Speaker 3:I think I have to change my answers to you guys.
Speaker 4:And when I said Chinaski I meant Bukowski, but Chinaski being his alter ego, I like to affectionately refer to him as Hank sometimes, because now, when I think about his life and his books, it was not a really happy life. I mean, I don't think any of it was no, he was fucking miserable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the guy was fucking miserable.
Speaker 2:But he was okay with his misery to a degree, yeah, but if I could do, you know, as a person that lived in Paris, I would probably go back to Paris, you know during his girl time and just live Gertrude Steins and you know being part of the clique and even if it was just, you know, opinionated, you know, fuck girl, whatever, but still to just be around it, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all right, guys. Well, on that note, signing off.
Speaker 4:Oh man, thank you very much.
Speaker 3:Thank you, sean. Yeah, we loved having you. It was amazing. Thank you so much, you, sean. Um, yeah, we love having you.
Speaker 4:It's been so much, it's been a great ride. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate it, your patience with our technical challenge it was.
Speaker 4:It was 15 minutes of fun.
Speaker 3:We figured it out yeah, so we'll take a little break and then do a reading.
Speaker 2:Yeah, beautiful, we're gonna do a feature reading from Daylight Maybe. And yeah, do a little chat after Beautiful Cool, all right.
Speaker 4:Thanks guys, Thank you.
Speaker 2:I am freezing and I have to pee. No-transcript.