Ever wondered how childhood dreams and unexpected career paths intersect? Join us as we sit down with Dolan Morgan, a gifted writer and illustrator from Greenpoint, Brooklyn, who takes us on a nostalgic journey from dictating stories to his grandmother, to immersing himself in the vibrant life of New York City. Dolan opens up about their move from Connecticut to NYC for college and his studies at NYU, where they balanced an education degree with a burning passion for writing. You'll hear heartwarming and humorous anecdotes, like working with newly arrived immigrants at Port Authority and laughing about cultural crazes like Ninja Turtles and Crocs.
Education is at the heart of Dolan's story. For nearly twenty years, they have dedicated themselves to supporting immigrant multilingual learners, creating transformative learning experiences and organizing conferences for educators. Dolan shares the joys and struggles of this work, especially during the pandemic's shift to remote learning. Marisa also gives a heartfelt account of her NYU thesis project, which documented the experiences of immigrant youth, shedding light on the unique challenges they face in their quest to graduate high school.
But Dolan's journey doesn't stop at education. He delves into his creative evolution, from discovering a love for art in junior college to blending his skills in writing and illustration. We talk about the therapeutic benefits of art, the impact of formal training, and the influence of community involvement. Our conversation also touches on deeper existential themes, exploring fears, desires, and the pursuit of living fully. Wrapping up with playful banter and a celebration of community, this episode is a heartfelt and inspiring celebration of Dolan's multifaceted life and the creative journey.
**Dolan Morgan bonus episode reading excerpt will be available June 21, 2024!**
Dolan Morgan Links
Website
Instagram
Linktr.ee
Books by Dolan Morgan
That's When the Knives Come Down
Mentions
Imagine Wanting Only This by Kristin Radtke
Follow us on Instagram! People at the Core Podcast
Email us! peopleatthecorepodcast@gmail.com
Ever wondered how childhood dreams and unexpected career paths intersect? Join us as we sit down with Dolan Morgan, a gifted writer and illustrator from Greenpoint, Brooklyn, who takes us on a nostalgic journey from dictating stories to his grandmother, to immersing himself in the vibrant life of New York City. Dolan opens up about their move from Connecticut to NYC for college and his studies at NYU, where they balanced an education degree with a burning passion for writing. You'll hear heartwarming and humorous anecdotes, like working with newly arrived immigrants at Port Authority and laughing about cultural crazes like Ninja Turtles and Crocs.
Education is at the heart of Dolan's story. For nearly twenty years, they have dedicated themselves to supporting immigrant multilingual learners, creating transformative learning experiences and organizing conferences for educators. Dolan shares the joys and struggles of this work, especially during the pandemic's shift to remote learning. Marisa also gives a heartfelt account of her NYU thesis project, which documented the experiences of immigrant youth, shedding light on the unique challenges they face in their quest to graduate high school.
But Dolan's journey doesn't stop at education. He delves into his creative evolution, from discovering a love for art in junior college to blending his skills in writing and illustration. We talk about the therapeutic benefits of art, the impact of formal training, and the influence of community involvement. Our conversation also touches on deeper existential themes, exploring fears, desires, and the pursuit of living fully. Wrapping up with playful banter and a celebration of community, this episode is a heartfelt and inspiring celebration of Dolan's multifaceted life and the creative journey.
**Dolan Morgan bonus episode reading excerpt will be available June 21, 2024!**
Dolan Morgan Links
Website
Instagram
Linktr.ee
Books by Dolan Morgan
That's When the Knives Come Down
Mentions
Imagine Wanting Only This by Kristin Radtke
Follow us on Instagram! People at the Core Podcast
Email us! peopleatthecorepodcast@gmail.com
From the Greenpoint Palace Bar in Brooklyn, new York, writers and bartenders Rita and Marissa have intimate conversations with an eclectic mix of people from all walks of life about their passions, paranoia and perspectives. Featured guests could be artists or authors, exterminators or private investigators, or the person sitting next to you at the bar. This is People at the Core.
Speaker 2:Three, two, one. Okay, try it again, okay.
Speaker 3:I was trying to count us in and then I was. I think I was on four and you were at three. It was a visual Anyway. Hey, how are you? Hi, marissa.
Speaker 2:I'm good. I'm a little tired today.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was a very busy, exciting, uh, sunny saturday. Yeah, it was it was. I worked yesterday and you helped yeah you jumped in and helped, which was great so just came in and I was like um, there's a lot of people and you're running out of glassware yeah, we really were.
Speaker 2:it was nuts nuts Palace was crazy yesterday.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, but it felt good to jump in and get behind the wheel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 3:No, I honestly love the zen of cleaning, and when it's other people's stuff like my own, that's like I'm procrastinating doing things. Yeah, totally but when I do it for other people it's like, oh yeah, it's in the zone, um, anyway, so we have another guest here. Dolan came onto our radar during a reading at KGB last summer. We were instantly smitten with his voice his humor and talent obvious talent.
Speaker 3:According to his official bio. Let me hold this. Dolan Morgan is a writer and illustrator living in Greenpoint, brooklyn, and is the author of two story collections, including that's when the Knives Come Down. Their work has appeared or is forthcoming in Bomb Magazine, the Believer, the Lifted Brow, the Rumpus, electric Literature's Recommended Reading, selected Shorts, npr and elsewhere. We have come to learn that, like everyone else, he is more than his prescribed bio. Like he works with recently arrived immigrants coming into Port Authority, we're excited to learn more. Please welcome Dolan.
Speaker 4:Hello.
Speaker 3:Hi Bates, how are you?
Speaker 4:I'm doing good, happy to be here.
Speaker 3:You got your Sunday pearls on.
Speaker 4:Yes, and they're my Monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday, pearls too.
Speaker 3:What I love is that we all it's Sunday and we all are wearing black, even our buddy, tim, who was helping do the setup for the recording black yeah.
Speaker 2:Let's send it.
Speaker 4:I'm hiding, you can't see it. Oh you are. I got some colors.
Speaker 2:That's okay. Actually I have my favorite Willie Nelson shirt there we go, it says have a. Willie, nice day on it. I have a hot pink hat hey you do so we've all got a pop of color going on, we're not super sad.
Speaker 3:New York, yeah, speaking of that, where are you from? You're not from here, are you?
Speaker 4:Before I moved to New York, I lived in Connecticut.
Speaker 3:Connecticut, nice yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was here a lot and then was like I'm going to be here all the time.
Speaker 3:When did that happen?
Speaker 4:I moved here for college.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, yeah, Where'd you go?
Speaker 4:I went to New York University, studied education.
Speaker 3:Education.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay so how'd you get into the writing, then yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4:I've always been doing that. Yeah, it's just always been how I passed the time, made sense of the world around me. Yeah, even before I could actually write, I would have my grandma type for me on an old typewriter while I narrated stories to her oh, you'd dictate uh, type for me on an old typewriter while I like narrated stories to her you dictate and yeah, oh my god, that's adorable, cute.
Speaker 2:Do you still have any of those pieces?
Speaker 4:I don't think so. I mean, I remember some of them roughly, uh, because I did keep them for a long time, yeah box, um, but I don't know where they would be now.
Speaker 3:So give me an example of a. I mean mean, I know your recent work, but the early years, the early years.
Speaker 4:Well, I think the saga that I helped my grandma helped me put to paper was called the Pizza Munching Aliens and it was about some aliens who'd come to take pizza from our world and it was like a big rip-off of Ninja Turtles. I was going to say I immediately thrown my brother's room.
Speaker 3:We had Ninja Turtle curtains, bed sheets pajamas.
Speaker 2:I wasn't, he was.
Speaker 3:By virtue I was. We were only two kids. Then I had a bunch of little boy cousins and they'd wear matching pajamas and jump around and be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't realize that the ninja turtles and that whole was like that's all connected, it's like daredevil and like they're all in the same universe in the like marvel universe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, someone just explained it to me the other day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's like daredevil knows the turtles well because it's very new york.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Like growing up I had no concept of New York, Like that was, the underbelly of New York was the turtles and then the movies.
Speaker 4:They originally wrote it as sort of a joke. Yeah, exactly Like making fun of, I don't know, comic book superhero tropes, and then it just caught on, it took off Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, isn't that crazy like crocs, yeah, yeah, hey, I'm wearing crocs right now.
Speaker 3:Now be good. Do you remember the the story about that, how they got popular? There was a film. It was like the idiots or supreme idiocy, and they're like what's the future?
Speaker 2:where everyone's done what's their outfit, one of the greatest.
Speaker 3:And and they're like there's this shoe? And they're like what happens if it becomes popular by the time? And they're like it's so ugly and everyone's wearing Crocs in the movie, and then they became wildly popular they're huge man.
Speaker 4:It's back now that movie.
Speaker 2:That's Mike Judge. That's a great like just great writer and a great like storyteller. But a lot of stuff in that movie did come true, I feel like, yeah Right, I mean it's kind of terrifying.
Speaker 3:So the saga of alien pizza stealers.
Speaker 4:Yeah, which in my mind was just about aliens coming and adventures.
Speaker 4:But I remember my mom reading them and being like, oh, this is about the divorce, because my parents had just gotten divorced and the main character is like a young boy and he's with his dad the whole time and they're like getting separated and getting back together and I was so missed that my mom was like this is about the divorce. I was like no, it's not, it's about adventure. But I think she was right and I was just talking about this recently with someone that like it. Thinking back on it, I feel pretty good about her being right because it means that I can just write about whatever I'm compelled to write and the subtext is there when I can like find it later.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that. I love that when you, once you dig deep, like you know in your mind, you're just putting it on a piece of paper, right, but it's so much deeper than that. I mean, it's kind of how we like break down films as well, right and and and writing and and you hear a lot of these directors and writers be like oh, I wasn't yeah like, but that makes sense subconsciously yeah, we're preoccupied with the stuff we're preoccupied by and kind of can't avoid it.
Speaker 2:Yeah I mean, you guys know the story that stephen king right about, how you know. So there's trains and all the stories there's like either a train song or some sort of train. But when he was younger, I guess he was out playing with his neighbor. He was like five or six or something, I don't quote me on the age, but um, the kid got hit by a train and he blacked out everything as a child. They just found him bloody hanging out, but the train, subconsciously, has become a part of his work, which is really wild.
Speaker 2:The motif the iconography, but it's like that little PTSD-ness you know, or something.
Speaker 4:Keep retelling the story. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:With aliens and pizza. So how long have you been Greenpoint for?
Speaker 4:It'll be 20 years in like two months oh shit.
Speaker 2:Wow, you're a Greenpointer.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you plan on staying in Greenpoint, or how do you feel?
Speaker 4:I love Greenpoint. I mean it's changed a lot. Yeah, it sort of feels like I moved without even having to move because it's such a different place than when I moved here. But yeah, I mean I don't have any designs on anywhere else at the moment. I mean I'm not opposed to.
Speaker 3:But as long as, like, the rent sitch is solid.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Now it's to the point like you can't fucking move unless there's a purpose.
Speaker 4:Yeah, if I move out of my apartment now I'm not living in Greenpoint yeah, I mean, I don't think we could afford it, Nobody, I mean.
Speaker 2:I live you know, marissa does. I live in like a tiny shoebox and. I just live there for convenience, because it's a block away from the bar. But my God, I can barely afford that If she moved out.
Speaker 3:They would probably double the rent and it would be laughable. Yeah, probably, though someone I just ran into someone who had a like a one bed railroad everything in greenpoint is railroad. On a block that I know has rats, there were bed bugs last summer. There was all of this like that's not new or up kept.
Speaker 3:Forty five hundred dollars, what for a one bedroom that's the real like it's insane the median rent for a one bedroom, she may as well go to these like soulless new buildings where you're going to pay forty five hundred for a new spot. And she may as well go up to these like soulless new buildings where you're going to pay $4,500 for a new spot and like live in a box with a bunch of people and paper thin walls.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute and a doorman. I'm still wait $4,500. $4,500 for a one bedroom.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not talking yard, not talking balcony. You boast windows at either end, dark in the middle, oh my god.
Speaker 4:So, I'm staying where I am right now and you're on India you said right, yeah, right on the wall.
Speaker 2:I mean that's beautiful, that area.
Speaker 4:I love it. It's great.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, I'm still in shock by that. So, wow, I'm speechless.
Speaker 3:I am I mean we can't afford to live here Right on Kingsland.
Speaker 2:I have like a 17-year lease here at this bar. How am I going to afford to stay?
Speaker 3:It's wild. There's enough room for a cot back here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a very good point. We can fashion a curtain. My beautiful loft apartment, oh yeah you could sleep up there.
Speaker 1:I don't know how, wilbur and the dog would do it.
Speaker 3:What else? Yeah, so like the writing stuff. So you have an education degree, but how did the creative writing become more of a focus?
Speaker 4:I guess, yeah, I mean I went into education with writing and art sort of in mind. When I was younger, I mean, I sort of didn't think it was possible for me to actually pursue a career in the arts. I think I was probably wrong about that, but I just as a young person just didn't think that that was in the cards for me. My stepdad had been a musician and it didn't work out, and everybody I grew up sort of working class. The idea of actually pursuing the arts seemed bananas to me. So I was like I need a secure job, you know with a union and some time off so that I can do the things that I love on the side while also contributing to the universe and making it a little better. And so that's why I went into education, and always with the idea that it would afford me some time to Flexibility, yeah, even if it was only a little bit of the summertime, right with the idea that it would afford me some time to.
Speaker 4:Flexibility yeah, even if it was only a little bit of the summertime.
Speaker 2:Right, right. So what are you doing? Are you still in education now?
Speaker 4:I still work in the field of education. Yeah, I work with the school that hired me. The first one, almost 20 years ago, was part of a network of schools that helps out recently arrived immigrant multilingual learner kids high school, middle school and that network, you know, opens other schools like and support schools dealing with the same stuff. And now I work with that network. It's a nonprofit and I help create learning experiences, trainings, materials for educators, leaders who are sort of new to that work or trying to amplify that work. And yeah, you know I can make workshops or run conferences.
Speaker 2:That's very cool though. So for your job you're mostly traveling around the city and Brooklyn, or you know it changes every day.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, Tell me like give me a day to.
Speaker 2:I'm just so interested. Give me a day in the life.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kind of. I mean, I'm really interested in it.
Speaker 4:Well, pre-pandemic, you know, there was an office in Manhattan and then I'd be in schools and then sometimes I'd like go. We have schools all around the country, so sometimes I'd be in California or D, but then when the pandemic hit and schools closed and our office closed, we started working remotely. So now I have a home office and I do a lot of the stuff that I would do in the office at home, although in comparison to my colleagues I think I'm in we have a little office now. I'm there probably more often than anybody else because I help print out like the physical materials that go with our in-person learning experiences, and then you know, I'll be in school, as I was at the twa hotel for like four days last weekend running a conference.
Speaker 4:It was a blast, it was really weird. I still haven't been, but I heard it's amazing it is a very strange place yeah, definitely felt like we were, I don't know, trapped outside of time, but it was nice how?
Speaker 3:so like, yeah, like yeah, I'm not familiar.
Speaker 4:Oh well, it's in an old, it's in the old TWA terminal at JFK, and then it's been turned into a hotel that mimics the sort of retro mid-century modern, like Mad Men-esque aesthetic.
Speaker 2:Oh, I didn't even know that A lot of my friends go for their wedding anniversaries or whatever Because you can stay. You know you spend the night.
Speaker 4:You have dinner, spend the night right, they have a bar in an airplane, like just sitting out in the tarmac.
Speaker 3:Maybe I did see a tarp on that, oh cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's nice Fun. So your job brought you there. That's pretty amazing. That's fun. Yeah, do you prefer? Do you wish? Do you prefer going into the office? Do you like? Did you prefer?
Speaker 4:it pre-covid, or do you like that you work from home? Now it's a mix. I mean I, when there's long stretches of I'm mostly working from home, it definitely makes me go like I need people and not just the sort of transactional exchange you have in a Zoom meeting or something like that, because that's very like what are we doing? And then the hour's up and there's no more human stuff and I used to have a co-worker who would sit right next to me or right behind me and we were constantly just turning our chairs to each other and saying some dumb joke.
Speaker 3:Sharing a thought. You know, something makes you think of something. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so that kind of stuff I miss, and then I'll be really appreciative of when I'm able to go into the school or to some place and be with other people right.
Speaker 2:So how often are you going into schools?
Speaker 4:um it, you know it changes different parts of the year. You know the past. Like two months I feel like I've been in almost every week, but I wouldn't say it's more than twice a week on any given week. Yeah, okay, wow.
Speaker 3:And you do what like K through 12? Is that like the program stuff that you work with?
Speaker 4:No, it's mostly high school and then some middle school, so as low as like seventh grade. Occasionally we get folks from K through 12 or even into higher ed. Yeah, but our main focus area is that pretty, I guess I would say underexplored or undersupported area of education is kids who have just arrived in the country. They've got to graduate from high school. They haven't been here getting support the whole time and they have all the same pressures of kids who have been here the whole time. That's yeah and it's like you've got to graduate. I know you just got here, but you've got to graduate.
Speaker 3:That actually was my thesis project no way.
Speaker 3:I was at NYU the background in anthropology Always periphery done a of like immigrant work and research and youth development stuff, and so when I was at NYU, I was volunteering, working with a program that was housed in newcomers, which most kids had been in the country less than three years, or three years at most, and were older than traditional, so they were like 18 to 21.
Speaker 3:Once they're 21, they're out of the system, and so my project was I wanted these young people to share their experiences and their stories and part of the program was doing an after-school thing to like go through like life skills, like setting up an email, that account right, doing a you know, at the time it was PowerPoint, like doing an interview and like how do you talk to people, social cues, like shaking hands, eye contact, because these kids were coming from all over and I focused mostly on Spanish speaking countries because that's my other language.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, it was about documenting through their words. So I had this whole like multimedia project set up. I mean this was over years ago, 10 years ago and doing a blog. So it was like talking about themselves, their experiences, controlling their narrative, rather than being told and talked about or being a statistic and I wanted them to gain something from the process. So I brought in professional photographers. We had writing workshops, we had blogging workshops, like all of these things, like whatever. They were interested in interviewing each other and like it was awesome and I wanted to pursue more of that and go into doctoral work. But then I opened up a restaurant.
Speaker 2:That's usually what happens. I know I'm just sitting here thinking the same thing. I was like God, what a cool job Like this is so awesome, and I just want to speak for her.
Speaker 3:But yeah, so I mean it's the problem that still persists and that particular age group, when you may not have the education. You've had disrupted education. You probably had some trauma on how you got here. You have levels of responsibility of being participants in your household if you have a household and you're not alone. So many layers I think there needs to be more conversations and support for that demographic that is still. Oh, 100% and then now you know Anyway.
Speaker 4:I also like to think of it too, because that it's not just that that demographic needs support, but that the school system needs support in knowing what to do Because, like there's nothing wrong with these kids, it's the you know the system in which they are landing is just like not prepared to support them, and it's the fastest growing population or demographic in almost every area of the country and teacher preparation programs, only something like 13 15 percent of teachers get support in how to educate them, and so it's like what's going on?
Speaker 2:that's a big mismatch yeah you know, I've never even thought about it that way, just get them to pass a test.
Speaker 3:Yeah, to get keep funding yeah for the school they need to hit the merits, and so they're just prepping to do this thing, not for life or actual education.
Speaker 4:So the schools I work with try to get beyond that low bar into more like the stuff that you were talking about, where it's like project-based holistic know, actually centered around them and what they want, rather than humans yeah, yeah right.
Speaker 2:Human beings, people exactly do you?
Speaker 3:so I know some of your work kind of connecting these things and I haven't, as far as my understanding of the work, heard anything kind of touching about expanding on those experiences or bringing in some of those things into your creative um, do those kind of just separate things?
Speaker 4:or do you question
Speaker 4:yeah, I would say they don't come in directly. You know I I would be I would be pretty hesitant to try to represent the stories of the young people that I work with in my work, but there are like elements of, I guess I would say, exploring the systemic inequities that pervade our world. Like I like to explore that in my work, but not in a way that would like sort of co-opt the narrative or experience of the young people I work with, but instead the structures of like power that we run into the big picture.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, do you do any workshops with them?
Speaker 4:or like is there any sort of like hey, it's not all business, like this is my skill set, some fun creative outlets, or like oh, I mean, I've done some of that with my colleagues and I know I've helped educators do some of that stuff in their classes, but I don't directly do that with young people.
Speaker 2:Oh, so you keep it pretty separate. Yeah, it sounds like a little bit. Yeah, Because now you're an illustrator too, correct?
Speaker 1:Uh-huh, oh yeah, that's exciting.
Speaker 4:Draw me something yeah show our audience what you can do yeah, here it is, here it is. I'm holding it up.
Speaker 2:We love it.
Speaker 3:The line work is just next level so you always kind of dabbled. I mean, it sounds like everything in the arts. That's just who you are and how you've been, and I know that you have actually had some illustrations that are in the world that people have asked you to do on purpose.
Speaker 4:There's a lot of stuff we do.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of stuff we do whether or not somebody wants it.
Speaker 2:Or you get paid for it Even better. That's a tough one, that's cool.
Speaker 3:So any formal training just like to do?
Speaker 4:No, I mean I've just sort of doodled and made pictures. Also since I was a little kid, I would say my experience of drawing versus writing is pretty different and drawing it's more like I just get into a little flow state and I disappear for a while. And I have not done any kind of formal training. I had classes when I was young. I specifically was kind of a dork, I guess I was like I had an opportunity to go to an art school for high school and I was like nah, really I'm raw.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was like I'm gonna do my own thing like this way. I don't want any of that. And now I look back and I'm like what a missed opportunity it could have been nice.
Speaker 2:I was so jealous of the art school kids, man, I never got to go. But like you know, talking to them in my 20s and like, yeah, we went to art school, so cool yeah it sounds great yeah
Speaker 3:it does, it really does right. I did. I have an associates in fine arts when I transitioned back from Mexico. I was coming living sort of back and forth and I was like I need to do something while I was here in the States working and then I was like I need a creative outlet, I need to be moving forward, doing something. And so I started and I was like, oh, art, I love art. Wait, but you went to an arts high. No, no, no.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's what we're talking about. No, no, no, but like junior high school.
Speaker 3:Not a junior college. Gotcha, gotcha, so it wasn't as pretentious as like art school, but it was an amazing program and people scoffed at, you know, junior college or whatever, but it was fucking amazing and it saved my mental health, oh, yeah, for sure. And having studios and other people helping you with weird big projects, hey, I want to like dunk my face into this weird thing.
Speaker 3:To take a mold and somebody will help you, make you not drown and like just the access and just the energy. It, yeah, it led to you know no money or anything but, but it was beautiful for my creative self.
Speaker 2:I feel like I created my own arts high in my 20s just because I was surrounded by musicians and artists, going to community college and working at a tattoo shop. But I was so jealous of those arts high kids, man.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it seems. I mean at the time I was not, I was like no way, but I love that you of those arts high kids man?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it seems. I mean at the time I was not, I was like no way, but I love that you're defiant about it. You're like no, I'm going. Did you go to public school?
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I was like I want to stay connected to you know.
Speaker 3:Real people yeah.
Speaker 4:And I don't want to be I don't know, imbued with whatever weird cult stuff they got going on in the art school. That's what I thought, and now you know you asked me if I did any formal training. I took like one online class to help me beef up my Adobe Illustrator skills and I was like wow, I should have done so much more school. This was so helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, I know totally. Every time I take like a like. Every once in a while I'll take like a Gotham workshop or like an NYU workshop or something I'd be like. Oh, this is pretty great, you know, and also not great, you know. So do you illustrate a lot of your work or are they kind of separate, your art and your?
Speaker 4:writing Some of it. I would say, like most of my fiction, I don't illustrate Every now and then I'll get an opportunity. When someone publishes it they'll say oh, we know you do illustrations. Do you want to do any, if they?
Speaker 3:say that, then I say yes.
Speaker 2:Double whammy. Yeah, I kind of love that. I keep picturing the old school Playboy. You know what I mean the articles with the little drawings. My friend is an illustrator for Playboy and they still do that. I always love that the little corner drawings you know for the Shel. Silverstein piece, or whatnot.
Speaker 3:Or, like the New Yorker Exactly, keeps their little fun stuff I know, I know I'm kidding, but yeah, agreed.
Speaker 2:Agreed, that's awesome. I mean that's like a double whammy.
Speaker 4:And then I do a couple sort of like they are graphic story things. I've had a couple of those. Oh, come out too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh I've just been obsessed with that, like that's all I've ever wanted to do. But I'm a terrible illustrator. But I've always wanted to write a graph. I'm a graphic novel nerd.
Speaker 4:They're great yeah, great what's your favorite one.
Speaker 2:I know it's a tough question, right?
Speaker 4:now. Um, I think I've been there's. What is this guy's name? Daphne is the name of the book. Okay, he's one of my favorite working like contemporary people putting stuff out.
Speaker 2:Awesome Daphne. That's what it's called. I think that's what it's called.
Speaker 3:Correct, google it. Daphne. Scooby-doo was the first thing that popped up. Illustrator.
Speaker 4:Oh wait, look up, I can't remember what it's called. He has this amazing drawing style, crazy stories that I really resonate with. And yeah, I guess I'm blanking on the title. I always do.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I put you on. I put you on the spot. What's your favorite?
Speaker 3:right now is this it does that look like it and then there was this one guy who I've been obsessed with for so long.
Speaker 4:He put out like three issues of a comic series called Luma Kick. And I just absolutely loved it, and when I was running a magazine for a while I was like, oh, I've got to get him to contribute some work.
Speaker 2:Is this all new in the last couple of years? No, this guy.
Speaker 4:This probably came out 20 years ago. Oh, really I still really love it.
Speaker 2:And I don't even know if he makes anything anymore. Huh, oh, anders nelson, love anders nelson. Yeah, yes, I'm definitely more of the um traditional, I think it's just, I think it's always too for me. When I started, you know, like when you start to get into graphic novels or when you, you know so I'm like very much the preacher and watchman like Alan Moore, garth Ennis, like all that stuff, I don't know like the purist. But then you find all these other people too.
Speaker 4:I mean, it just keeps you know yeah, there's a Kristen Radke book that her first one, I think Imagine Wanting Only this, it's so good she has a newer one.
Speaker 2:Only this, it's so good. Oh okay, I have to check that out.
Speaker 4:She has a newer one about loneliness. That's really good. It's about like sort of like it's more like an essay than a like a fiction piece, but it's super cool. It just explores the concept of loneliness what's it called? Again one more time the first one, which I guess Kristen Ratke and the book is called Imagine Wanting Only this, and it's great.
Speaker 2:Oh, that sounds amazing. I had to stop my graphic novel addiction because it was so expensive it's so expensive for like three minutes of beautiful you know this gorgeous experience. But then I'm like what am I going to do with this now?
Speaker 4:yeah, and then some of the people are very prolific, like um. Every time I go into desert island there's like three new junji ito books which are those gross like horror yeah, the manga yeah, and they're really gross um, they're great, is it?
Speaker 2:I've heard I should read these things.
Speaker 3:I'd love for it. It's some alien-like sexual violence, kind of kink stuff.
Speaker 4:Oh, some of them, some of them.
Speaker 3:Some of the things that I've seen can be there's one.
Speaker 4:I forget what it's called. It's about a spiral that just keeps showing up everywhere and contorting people and contorting things Cool.
Speaker 2:It's really good. Actually, it sounds right up my alley to be honest I love that kind of stuff. All right, guess what, guys? It's question time. Ooh, question roulette, let's do it Question roulette.
Speaker 3:What do these stars have't stole for us today, oh god, okay. So I'm gonna preface this with. I woke up this morning happy, and my happiness made me scared um that the things that I love most my. My greatest fear, honestly my greatest fear, is that my husband or my dog die like my happiness are you answering the question before we got the question?
Speaker 3:no, I'm just saying, like when we're talking about tarot stuff, I'm just like of, I don't thinking, not think about my mortality. It's that I'm so happy. These two people, these two creatures I love so most. The thing that scares me is losing them, and the only thing that would take them away would be death. So just prefacing this like fatalistic thing. If you knew you only had one year to live from now, how would you spend the next 12 months? Oh, brutal 12 months one year.
Speaker 3:You got one year. You know it's gonna end. You got one year. What do you do?
Speaker 2:oh my god, I would do so many drugs. I would just like I would just go really well, just for a couple of months on a beach somewhere sounds nice.
Speaker 3:I would probably. I would do an ayahuasca journey yeah, you get what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Like just do like some like crazy, like drug binge, like fuck it with my dog, you know like hang out with my dog on a beach, do a bunch of drugs, and then I would probably have to do something else, I don't know what, like some bucket list.
Speaker 3:What's a bucket list thing? Well, I want to see the pyramids. Really bad, you got to go.
Speaker 2:Got to go see the pyramids. Great Like that's number one up there. Finish my book.
Speaker 3:You got to Because it's going to be big when you're done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, it's going to be big when you're done. Yeah, exactly right. And then I don't know like seek out revenge on all.
Speaker 3:No, I'm just kidding. I'm not very much of a revenge person, I'm not at all. I don't hold you like.
Speaker 2:You know some people hold grudges, but I like the character. I'm not a grudge holder at all so that's not true, I guess maybe just see everyone I love. Yeah, does my dog get to live? I hope I'll take.
Speaker 3:Wilbur.
Speaker 2:Okay, good, how about you, Dolan? What would you do?
Speaker 4:That's a good question. I mean, if I knew I'm going to interpret this question a particular way, If I knew that I was going to die in 12 months and then I wasn't going to die before?
Speaker 3:that then I would do some crazy stuff.
Speaker 4:I don't know if you saw Groundhog Day. But Bill, crazy stuff. Yeah you know, I don't know if you saw groundhog day, but you know, like bill murray, just like getting hit by a train, like I'd be doing all sorts of things that like it's not gonna kill me you know, yeah, like you're taking it as you're invincible for 12 months, but it's gonna end yeah go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all right, that's wild. I I've always wanted to do. I don't know if you've ever seen. It's not base jumping, but it's kind of based off of base jumping. It's like squirreling, where they jump off into gorges and have this suit. That's like a flying squirrel. It's like this tarp connecting foot to foot limb and you just fly. You have to be careful because if there's a gust of wind, boom, you're smacked into the gorge.
Speaker 3:That sounds terrifying, but the feeling of just flying and having time. Opposed to like doing, I've skydived and sky dove. Sky dived, hanged.
Speaker 2:That doesn't help. Sky dived, sky dived.
Speaker 4:You jumped from really high. Yeah, thank you, dolly.
Speaker 3:Jumped from a plane, which is great, but it's fleeting. And that experience like when I jumped mine was a reaction, not of fear. I laughed, I was uncontrollable laughter, wow. So it was just pure fucking joy. Plus, it was, like you know, low oxygen, I think contributed to that.
Speaker 2:So you've done that yeah, I jumped out of a plane. Yeah, that makes my stomach turn.
Speaker 3:Like I said, I don't have a fear of death.
Speaker 2:I don't have a fear of death. I have a fear of heights. I like the vertigo feeling. I'm not a big roller coaster person.
Speaker 3:But flying in a gorge for time to take it all in and to basically be a bird.
Speaker 4:I would love to do that. The point of this question, always when people ask it is like you listed those things. You gotta do them right away yeah, oh, is that the point?
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm high right now so I feel great, just kidding, I'm just kidding these are things that you wanna do.
Speaker 4:You should go see those pyramids as soon as possible.
Speaker 2:I do want to look.
Speaker 3:It's really expensive to go to. Egypt though it's, though, if you hook up with an influencer, they might get something paid for if you document it.
Speaker 2:Where am I gonna like go pro?
Speaker 3:you need to leave the neighborhood.
Speaker 2:Well, that's hard for me to do, the two block radius I do. I go to the city a lot, actually I try and go once a week. You've been going, we're going this week. Yeah, okay, I mean I've been doing good, don't bust my balls, but yes, so, so, something crazy like that if I knew I wasn't going to die.
Speaker 3:Also, I am don't want to die, so I'm not doing it quite yet.
Speaker 2:Um, but yes, yeah, like seeing people, seeing places, trap, yeah, travel yeah, I guess trap I just traveling, traveling and hi yeah, I think, just because I think the reason I bring, I kind of joke about the drug thing but I also like I think about if it's like terminal cancer then like I would want to be really relaxed and just like absolutely you know what I mean, but if I'm just like in my healthiest, pick up your heroin habit yeah, you're like, I got two months.
Speaker 3:We're going. Heroin is a great drug.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've done it, it's lovely, it's fantastic we're not promoting drug use.
Speaker 3:No, we're not, I'm sorry. Well, they do have the hashtag.
Speaker 2:All the trigger warnings anyway, yeah, um okay, we can do, let's do one more and then we'll play, and then we're on our way. I don't know if I'm feeling this one okay, skip it, skip it yeah do another one. Great, if your gut says no, ride with it.
Speaker 3:It's sunday maybe okay who has offered you the most useful career advice oh boy, no one no one just kidding, I mean I'm still broke okay okay. Of the people you spend time with, who brings out your best qualities?
Speaker 2:my dog your dog does he does. He makes me really happy and, like I, sing songs all day to him you're kind and caring and caring and patient I mean, you're always yeah but he brings all that out in me, like he brings my best quality, though, and responsibility and respect, which I can.
Speaker 3:Accountability, yeah, all those things that I'm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all those things that I'm pretty bad at you, know what I mean.
Speaker 3:You've been stepping up with me and I appreciate. Yeah, you bring that I appreciate that you I know I push you out of your comfort zone um and make you yeah, make you show up, but I'm I think you're happy when you do.
Speaker 2:You're a good person, you bring things out. That's what I mean, like bringing things out, me and Wilbur. Yeah, you and Wilbur there we go Dolan, how about you?
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know. I mean, it depends a little bit on what are my best qualities. I'm sort of racking my brain to see like which ones are good.
Speaker 4:Oh, I think you're brain to see like which one is good, but, um, I think it is. This is sort of a general answer, but I can give a specific one too, that it's it's when I'm collaborating with people that I think my best qualities probably come out. Um, you know, I'm in a writing group. I've been in the same group for like 10 years and I know being with them and what they draw out of me as like a partner for their work and as a person receiving their feedback. I think like that brings out good qualities in me, things that I appreciate about myself.
Speaker 4:But also, you know, at work, when I'm collaborating on stuff or like other art projects I've been a part of, I think I know a lot of writing is really solo, solo, but I think I really appreciate when I get to collaborate with other people and I maybe one of the reasons I think it brings out the best qualities is because of the level of surprise of like what a person can be capable of, when you work with other people, that you just wouldn't do on your own. So, yeah, I think, maybe I think that's great.
Speaker 4:Surprising qualities at least.
Speaker 3:You are. I mean, like the little I know of you, you're always involved in the writing community. I mean, I see that you're helping people or you're participating in different readings or other literary events and pretty consistent with that. Yeah, we've had people come up here for the Palace Reading Series hear you read. Who don't know you, who've heard you somewhere else, are like oh, I met Dolan at this reading yeah, you have quite a following.
Speaker 2:He was awesome and he was so nice and you deserve that.
Speaker 3:And it's yeah, it's so beautiful to see that that community that you created and, yeah, that comes out and shows up for you. That's pretty rad yeah, it is that's great.
Speaker 3:How about you, dear? Uh, well, you know, you particularly know it's. It's my husband. Um, we have known each other for 18 years and he's witnessed a lot of my uh, lesser good moments. Um, yeah, and I think that he has helped me to be more patient and kind with myself and others and, yeah, and gives me that kind of confidence when I'm feeling less sparkly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you guys definitely even each other out. A very beautiful yin and yang. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you too, like all these things that I want to do now, I feel I can do because of you oh, that's and what we created together like this, you know, turning and facing each other on the sidewalk. We're like we should start a reading series. Yeah a great reading series you should go and then you're like we should start a podcast.
Speaker 2:I come up with the idea and she does all the follow through. It's like basically what's happened two times.
Speaker 3:Well, you can't do two of me, Like that would be too much. I really, yeah, Ken and I talk a lot about how we have a lot in common, Like because we handle you very similarly too. You know what I mean? 100%. Yeah, you let me spin and work it out and then come back and you handle me very much like you handle Ken too.
Speaker 2:It's like come on, sweetie, you can learn to get up. You know what I mean. So yeah, those are great questions very fortunate yeah okay, so I've been thinking okay, the fuck killed B.
Speaker 3:We've explained which we've said. It's not a children's game would we play in high school maybe? Yeah, yeah, probably a high school thing, okay, all right, I decided because you said groundhog's day.
Speaker 2:I had a couple of different sets. I had a writing set, okay. I had a pop set, okay, and I have a movie set. You guys want to choose which one. Oh, dolan, you're our guest. What are the options again here? Okay, so three sets of people, but Categories of people.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I thought of.
Speaker 2:Groundhog's Day, since you brought up that, so we can either do a set of actors, a set of musicians or a set of writers.
Speaker 4:Let's do actors Okay.
Speaker 2:The actors are Bill Murray, chevy Chase okay, chevy chase, oh, dan akroyd oh, oh well, right off the bat, I don't really want to fuck any of them yes
Speaker 2:wait, it's fuck kill or be all right um I'm gonna kill dan akroyd. He just, I don't know, drives me crazy. I'm going to hate fuck Chevy Chase, because I heard he's a fucking asshole. Right, that's what they say and then I'm going to be Bill Murray, because his son is very nice. He owns a little restaurant down the street 21 Greenpoint and I bet Bill Murray's great.
Speaker 3:People love Bill Murray. I've heard some things come out about him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but whatever, I'll still be him. I can talk shit.
Speaker 3:I've got stories about me.
Speaker 2:Some are true and some are not. Those are mine.
Speaker 4:Fuck, kill be. Yeah, I think I'll kill Chevy Chase Smart.
Speaker 2:He does seem like he really stinks.
Speaker 3:He really does right. Yeah, really rubs me the wrong way, but even in his movies he's a dick.
Speaker 4:So it means he's not even a good actor.
Speaker 2:Because, he's a dick in real life he's got nothing going for him.
Speaker 3:Though I love National Lampoon, I watch it every year. Yeah, he does.
Speaker 4:He makes me laugh. Okay, and then I think I will have sex with Dan Aykroyd. Yeah, because he seems like a sensitive lover.
Speaker 3:Yeah right, he would be attended to and he would snuggle yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he'd take his time. Yeah, he seems like a nice guy yeah.
Speaker 4:And then I guess I'll be Bill Murray. He seems like he's doing alright for himself and he's had he okay people tend to like him, so that seems nice too.
Speaker 2:He's on a lot of adventures yeah, yeah, I'm okay with that, alright, marissa.
Speaker 3:I originally thought I'd be Dan, because he seems just like a genuinely nice guy. And he's not, you know. Yeah, but I probably need some more spice. Okay, so I'm gonna be bill murray. Yeah, he's always got my funny bone. Yeah, I'm either not super tough, but I know I think I'm going to yeah, I think I'm going to fuck Dan and kill Chevy.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think so.
Speaker 2:Cool. Well, we're all Bill Murray today. Yes, Beautiful. So we can put all the questions together. You have to pretend like you're Bill Murray for one day and that you're going to die tomorrow. What do you do?
Speaker 3:I'm going to be a squirrel and make jokes.
Speaker 4:I'm going to get hit by a train Perfect.
Speaker 2:All right. On that note I guess we're done. Beautiful, we'll take a little break, yeah.
Speaker 3:Did you want to read something for us? Yeah, did you bring anything?
Speaker 2:to read. I got something Cool.
Speaker 3:All right, that will be in the yeah did you want to read something for us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, did you bring anything to read? I got something Cool, alright.
Speaker 3:That will be in the follow-up episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cheers, guys Chin-chin no-transcript.
Speaker 1:Featured guests could be artists or authors, exterminators or private investigators, or the person sitting next to you at the bar. This is People at the Core.
Speaker 3:Okay, go, okay. So, rita, we've got Dolan here to read a little excerpt with us. Yay, yay. Dolan Morgan is a writer and illustrator living in Greenpoint, brooklyn, and is the author of two story collections, including that's when the Knives Come Down. Their work has appeared or is forthcoming in Bomb Magazine, the Believer, the Lifted Brow, the Rumpus, electric Literature's Recommended Reading, selected Shorts, npr and elsewhere. Please welcome Dolan, who's going to be reading a little excerpt from a piece that he will introduce and tell us what it's about.
Speaker 4:Yeah, this is something that I read at the Palace Reading Series, if that was appropriate, and it's called 1-800.
Speaker 2:I love this one I know, I remember this.
Speaker 3:Sorry, really spoiler alert.
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Speaker 4:If you're calling because you would like to cancel your reservation, press 1 to hear the sound of a distant hollow laughter. There's no turning back now. Everything is in motion. If you're currently in the middle of your reservation and are experiencing difficulties or require assistance of any kind, press the palm of your hand to the center of your chest, feel your breath and understand that no one is coming, that you are alone and that this reservation is yours and nobody else's. Call back without losing your place in line. Press pound and leave a number where you can be reached At the sound of the tone. Record the message that you want to hear. Speak the words you wish someone would say to you and when you are finished recording, try to imagine what it would be like to actually feel the feelings you want to feel. Be gentle If you would like to make an adjustment to your reservation, if you believe that a change is somehow possible, that your choices can actually impact the trajectory of your reservation, then go ahead and press the numbers that you think will make that happen.
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Speaker 4:Now look all around you, at the room you are in, at these people, at their faces and at your own hands. Feel yourself here in this moment, tethered to the ground beneath a distant hollow sky, and then finally choose from the following menu options. Listen carefully, as our selections may have changed. If you know your party's extension, you may dial it at any time. If you know your party's extension, you may dial it at any time. If you know your party's extension, we're told you can do anything. You want, no reservation. Now ask yourself if you've ever truly known a party's extension. Speak an answer into your okay, bye.
Speaker 3:I love it, yeah, you. Just. Your writing is so humorous and I love how dark becomes so light that you're you forget. You're sad, laughing. Yeah, exactly, I don't know how else to say that. You forget you're sad, laughing. Yeah, exactly, I don't know how else to say that. So what's next in the writing situation? Are you working on long format? I mean, what I've experienced from you is more shorter pieces like that and these really punchy pieces, save for the butterfly thing that you wrote.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:It was really beautiful.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I would say. At a lot of readings I tend to read things that sort of fit in the chunk of time you're afforded at a reading, but most of my work is actually significantly longer than that, not like novel length.
Speaker 4:But you know short stories that are four or five, six thousand words, okay, and they just they don't fit in a reading. Uh, every now and then I'll read an excerpt that I think is like compelling enough to share at a reading. But generally I try to read something that like will fit in that space, and so a lot of pieces I write are actually structured to be like. I have this piece about puppets. It's five little chunks that I could read any one of them at any time, but they also work together to make a cohesive thing. So that's like a format that I do just sort of by necessity.
Speaker 2:I do the same thing too. Like, if you look at my book, I'm just cutting out paragraphs and pieces just to make it work, because I feel like the reading and the writing are two totally different things, kind of. Or that's how I view them anyways, is you know it was performance, so it's an, it's an interpretation of my piece, not necessarily the piece a hundred percent, like I've been reading most.
Speaker 3:My book is composed of vignettes, and some are longer, but they're not cohesive necessarily or don't make sense as a standalone. So I take pieces and I and I it's a lot of work and I make them. So then it's, you know, less than a 10 minute read and all of that. But I guess my question for you is, when you're writing something new, what comes first? Is it what you're reading at a reading Is an amalgamation of something, or do you sit down to write thinking about hey, I've got to do this piece under X amount of words or to be performed in X amount of time.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, I have like two modes. I would say one of them is I'm writing this. Who knows if I'll ever be able to find a way to make a chunk of it work, and it's just a story that I need to tell for whatever reason and it's format dictates itself.
Speaker 4:and then other ones that often are a little bit more, I don't know, not frivolous, but they're more whimsical, sillier, dark too, but where I'm comfortable having written in like little vignettes that are interlaced and those I deliberately, I'm like, yeah, this will be something that I can bring to a reading, so I'm always trying to do like I don't know. One of those for every three more traditional structure stories that I write Got it yeah, got it yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, you're such a prolific performer that I was curious as to the process, whether the performance followed the writing or the writing followed the performance.
Speaker 4:I mean, in a way they intermingle, because I read my work out loud as I write it.
Speaker 2:I do too. I'm the same.
Speaker 4:Make sure it sounds right and reads right.
Speaker 2:I do this. I just was working on a piece the other night. It's like five in the morning and same thing, just reading every line and I and it really helped. The reading series really helped me with that.
Speaker 4:Yeah to realize how important it is to read everything out loud yeah, you know, you can really find those lines that are not working. Yeah, exactly, and the style of reading too.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you do that ever, but I've kind of changed my. You know pronunciations, or you know how I dictate it too, and that helps.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's really helped my writing a lot yeah which is, you know, crazy yeah, I, I guess I've always, yeah, been a mental writer. First I like it's my own voice narrating it, and then somehow it finds its way to actually the page. Um, but I've always been my own audiobook yeah, yeah, you know, like nobody else is gonna do that yeah um, but yeah, no, I I just you know, having seen you and heard you, uh I appreciate uh the effort that goes into the performance. One is an organizer and two is an audience participant. Yeah, love your stuff.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 3:I'd be interested in reading bigger, longer, more you know, less jazzy I guess I'll keep you posted Ruminating pieces. Yes, Is there.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess we can't really do a time. I was going to say are there any pieces coming or any reading series coming up, but they probably will miss it by the time. They'll probably miss it by the time this comes out Exactly.
Speaker 3:If you have anything next year or summer stuff. Yeah, summer stuff.
Speaker 4:There's something coming out in May, but I think we're probably past May right now.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, we're almost to May. Well, we'll be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right and peace and out.
Speaker 3:Bye, thank you. Thank you Appreciate it.