People at the Core
From The Greenpoint Palace bar in Brooklyn, New York writers and bartenders, Rita and Marisa, have intimate conversations with an eclectic mix of people from all walks of life about their passions, paranoia and perspectives. Featured guests could be artists or authors, exterminators or private investigators, or the person sitting next to you at the bar.
People at the Core
From Owning a Bar to Working With Those Behind Bars With Vivek Sreekumar
What if our flawed social systems pushed people to commit crimes just to survive? In this compelling episode of "People at the Core," we start with a light-hearted chat about a quirky "What Would Justin Timberlake Do?" shirt and reflect on the pop star’s evolving charm, before segueing into a heartfelt discussion about Britney Spears' current struggles and the genuine support she needs. Our remarkable guest, Vivek Sreekumar, a dynamic individual who transitioned from bartending and DJing to impactful social justice work, joins us to share his incredible journey and the lessons he has learned along the way.
Vivek’s story is filled with serendipitous moments and valuable experiences, including how his hospitality in New York helped our host land their first job. We recount the origins of Beloved bar, which blossomed from a casual idea among college friends into a thriving community hub. This chapter highlights the deep sense of ownership and familial bonds that drove the bar’s success. From there, Vivek’s path takes a profound turn, shedding light on the complex realities of incarceration, homelessness, and systemic failures in urban planning and social support systems.
Our conversation with Vivek explores the harsh truth of how some individuals resort to committing minor offenses to access essential services provided in jails due to inadequate mental health and substance use support systems. We also discuss legislative efforts to improve housing stability and the emotional significance of pets for homeless individuals. The episode wraps up with a playful yet meaningful discussion on navigating cultural identity, the importance of friendship, and a whimsical game involving celebrity pampering. Tune in for a balance of heartfelt stories, serious social issues, and moments of levity.
Mentions
- Good Shepherd Services
- Rosie Singer Center at Rikers
- Coalition for the Homeless
- Youth Justice and Opportunities Act
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Email us! peopleatthecorepodcast@gmail.com
From the Greenpoint Palace Bar in Brooklyn, new York, writers and bartenders Rita and Marissa have intimate conversations with an eclectic mix of people from all walks of life about their passions, paranoia and perspectives. Featured guests could be artists or authors, exterminators or private investigators, or the person sitting next to you at the bar. This is People at the Core.
Speaker 2:Okay, are we live? Live, we're live.
Speaker 3:okay, I was just looking at your shirt, wwj, you're gonna call me out live. No, but it's awesome because I was like I want to take you for what would jesus? But then the t, and that's justin timberlake yeah, what would justin timberlake do?
Speaker 2:he would cry me a river, he would bring sexy back and he would wear a suit and tie my friend laurie gave it to me. I don't really understand it because I'm not a big timberlake fan, but um well, it was comfortable curls.
Speaker 3:Once he shaved his curls, there was that moment where he was hot, um, where he was post prepubescent, and then he was like oh, okay, and then he yeah, and then then it was over yeah, I don't know about all that. I would say he's ever been hot well, it was better without the baby curls yeah, well, yeah, and then speaking of better and worse. Do you follow britney on instagram?
Speaker 2:oh no, what happened?
Speaker 3:oh, it's just sad, like she's alone and she dances, like it's just she needs a real friend I'll be her friend like a real person to care about her, wash her face, take the hair extensions out and, just like, give her a hug and like be. I mean it's just, it breaks my heart Anywho, um hi. Hi it's been a long week, so I'm trying to think of the opposite of real things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you're doing great. We're gonna save Brittany. Wasn't there a campaign for saving Brittany anyways?
Speaker 3:Her well. Her family's been whoring her out and her dad had a conservatorship over her. But everything from regulating her personal female whatever stuff like birth control and things, and every decision, not just money, like every aspect of her life, but I don't think she's doing so great anyway. Okay, moving on, all right, okay moving on.
Speaker 2:All right. Well, that was our Britney Spears update. Woo-hoo. Now I know what my three are.
Speaker 3:I keep wanting to like unfollow because it makes me sad, anyhoo. So let's get moving. Yeah, I'm dominating, are you?
Speaker 2:No, the conversation right now well, let's, let's introduce our guests.
Speaker 3:Okay, I'm so excited um so our guests, we both, I believe, met and know because of his former establishment, uh the vague, uh, sweet kumar did that.
Speaker 2:Yes, did she do it right? Yes?
Speaker 3:Sreekumar Bartender, DJ, dog, dad, business owner, social justice warrior, neighbor and friend. I love listicles. We really want to talk today about how he made the transition from working in bars to working with those behind bars.
Speaker 4:Oh wow.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:So that was my little. I like that Also.
Speaker 3:fun fact about Vivi is he gave me my very first job in New York In hospitality no, in New York, in New York.
Speaker 2:In New York? Yeah, for sure. I mean it was just like serendipitous how it worked out, but I got off a plane and had a job within like a day or two, right?
Speaker 4:yeah, it's a funny story um I was.
Speaker 4:I was working for all sorts at the time and um carpenter okay yeah, well, I was doing a job with the owners of all sorts and who know Rita from Minneapolis, and um, and that evening my bar back had called in sick and it was the second week in a row that he was. Um, he just called in and so I told him to take a hike and the owners of all sorts were like, hey, our friend just moved here and she's awesome, so yeah. So then I was like, okay, let's meet her.
Speaker 2:And that's how, yeah, rita ended up um working for me part of the beloved family yep yeah yeah, it was great and we became such good friends and it was a family it really was. It was like my first family in New York, yeah, um, and it's.
Speaker 4:They took care of me and helped me and oh, it was just amazing, you know yeah, and now there's like all kinds of connections and other families that have branched off from there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, I mean us, ken and I, we we met you through Beloved. I actually bartended the very last shift. Renee got really drunk.
Speaker 2:I was like you did.
Speaker 3:And so I made some time behind the bar and helped make the last few.
Speaker 2:I don't remember that. I don't think we knew that. Thank you. Thank you, it was funny. Love you, Renee. It was funny, Love you Renee. It was fun. Everyone was happy having a good time. That's hilarious.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's taking it back. It's many years 10 years plus right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I've been here. 10 plus it was legit when I got off the plane.
Speaker 3:They were like like you want a job, okay, yeah, we started working on lucky in summer or of 2013.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a lot um, so how'd? You get into yeah, bar stuff, and you're like well yeah, you know the bar thing was.
Speaker 4:I don't think we intended to actually open a bar, um, it was just an idea that one night my, my business partner, and I, we I mean even calling him a business partner it still sounds weird because we were just buddies from college yeah and um, at that time there were a bunch of bars opening on grand street and um, there were, there were cool bars and we would go frequent these bars and one night just drunk at one of these bars, we were like we should open a bar and um, and then, I think later, like that weekend, my friend texted me, I was at a wedding and my friend texted me and he's like we should do this and we had no experience. We were not bartenders, we were not bar people at all.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I never worked in a bar before and I love that yeah, because you're so knowledgeable now yeah and um, I think at that time too, I didn't really have much direction with my life, and so it was something to dedicate myself to and so, um, so I committed myself to it and then, you know, you know, we met people. Um, you know, we met Renee through Heather.
Speaker 2:Um and. I mean, that's the thing too. You had like the best bartenders in New York.
Speaker 1:I would say in the world you know all of?
Speaker 3:I mean all of them how did that?
Speaker 4:how did you get that? Well, yeah, that was just through having you know the right people in place, like um, you know, getting drunk at the right bars beforehand. Yeah, I mean, we really owe it to our staff because we couldn't have done it without them and you know most of them stuck with us from beginning to end.
Speaker 2:They really did. There wasn't a lot of turnover right.
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 2:I don't really think of anything. I was there for probably what?
Speaker 4:four or five years yeah, and I think because they, they knew that we didn't really have much, you know, of the bar acumen when we started, yeah, um, that, like you know, they, they helped us along, you know, didn't? They didn't take advantage of us yeah or or not as much, at least.
Speaker 3:And like how fun to like have kind of a raw-ish space and the support and the leeway to kind of like make it their own without the responsibility of ownership?
Speaker 4:Yes, we gave them a sense of ownership over it.
Speaker 2:You know, without the responsibility of ownership, yeah, it definitely felt like you know that you had something invested in it. You know, like everyone just cared so much and it's rare as a bar owner now, that's rare, you know like I mean my staff cares so much now, but we had to go through a lot of people and I realized I was so fortunate because I just thought that was always the case. But it's not the case, you know, for someone to like. We were family.
Speaker 1:It is a family still, you know, there's a beloved family.
Speaker 2:So you know it's crazy, but I'm so excited. I really want to spend a lot of time on this podcast talking about what you do now.
Speaker 4:If you're okay with that. Yeah, I am.
Speaker 2:You know, and the transition over to, like you know, from going from this bartending nightlife to what you do now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so you know, after we sold the bar, I had worked. I had done a few different jobs, but just prior to COVID I had worked for Draft Choice, which is, you know, a company that installs and maintains draft beer lines. And then, when COVID hit, you know that job just ended and I was, I think you know I knew I wasn't going to be with Draft Choice forever and again in this search for finding something really meaningful to do with my life. And COVID was this pivotal moment. And I think, just seeing the destruction and everything that was happening around me in New York City, I decided to apply to Fordham for my master's in social work and just take a chance. And so I wrote this application and it was this.
Speaker 4:My essay was this like broad strokes essay about just like, like kind of how I would go about preventing um losses like we'd seen in New York, if this ever happened in the future.
Speaker 4:And it would be like the idea was to inject like, like immediate resources into vulnerable neighborhoods, um, and then there would be like a component where you would um do like entrepreneur incentives to build up like the economy of these neighborhoods, to bring them up to like better socioeconomic levels, because we were seeing that certain neighborhoods were were less affected, and you know. And then I'd written this whole paper just hoping to get in and, like two days after I submitted the paper, george Floyd died, yeah, and so so my original intention was to try to work on, like you know, work on public health and you know, and prevent future losses like this, but then seeing that video really affected me in this really profound way. Um, and so everything just became dedicated towards criminal justice and, um, and I got into Fordham and then basically every class that I took in social work classes, you're given a lot of freedom to choose the nature of your assignments and what type of field or subject you want to tailor your assignments to, whether it's domestic violence or.
Speaker 3:Some faction of society, of the social system?
Speaker 4:yeah, so I, I did everything like I tailored it all towards criminal justice, and so every class I took there was some component that had to do with with criminal justice. Yeah so, and now I work at Rikers as a social worker and I work with people who have mental health disorders from like any range of the spectrum, from anxiety all the way to schizophrenia or bipolar or schizoaffective disorder, or you know there's a term. I don't necessarily like the term, but we it's called SMI, severe mental illness, um, um. So yeah, I, I work with and I also work in the in the women and transition, so helping people um re-enter society in the most supportive way possible yeah, I mean what a beautiful, thank you.
Speaker 2:I mean that's so beautiful. I have like goosebumps right now. I mean it's so beautiful and and it has got to be so intense.
Speaker 4:Yeah it's. You know it is really intense. The things that you see there are like you just don't. I mean it's so hidden, it's meant to be hidden from us here. And one of the things that you really start to understand when you work in that world is especially people our age to understand when you work in that world is especially people. Our age is that you know, in the 90s you start to understand that criminality and that whole component of society was meant to be hidden from us, right?
Speaker 4:You know, and you start to see there were all these like the onset of like cop dramas and you know, like yeah, and like glorification of like police shows and then terms like super predator and things like that, and also even where they place jails and prisons and stuff, where they separate them from society, um, because it's supposed to be out of sight, out of mind. They also they, they strip people who who are um, locked up, they strip their right to vote, so they have no agency and no voice. So you know, all those things were were meant to be, um, removed from our consciousness, right? So so none of their stories are told, and you know so when you go work in those facilities, you know that's really the only exposure is when you're inside.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:And and when. When they come out of those facilities, nobody really wants to hear their stories, right? Um, it's um, and I think you know, in some sense we're almost too far beyond an inflection point. Um, so I think you know, there there needs to be an education for the greater society, in an understanding about what's going on, for things to change.
Speaker 3:I know that nationally there's a dearth of re-entry programs. Do you see that there is a possibility that that would help part of the system? One also I know this is a little obtuse. I was watching the kardashians we all know how kim is involved and yeah, well, she was interviewing or had a sit down with gypsy rose and she said that she asked for therapy oh yeah and was denied therapy the young girl who Munchausen right, right her mother was denied therapy yeah and so I don't think that that is a unique situation.
Speaker 3:It has nothing to do with celebrity. But it just stood out to me that of course that is not an anomaly situation, and to hear that at Rikers, where we hear so many terrible things that at least there is a social work program.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, yeah, so. So basically, if, if people are um, people do have a right to um when they come out of Rikers. First of all, I work for a hospital system. I don't work for corrections Right. And people do have a right to have access to mental health services or substance use services when they come out. Okay, you know whether they choose to engage with it or not is different, but they here in the state of New York in New York City.
Speaker 4:So part of my job is to set them up with services and make appointments for them and stuff. They have a right to refuse those services as well. For people who have severe mental health disorders and are unhoused, they have a right to supportive housing. So I'll apply for supportive housing for them. And there are services. There are also a lot of bureaucratic barriers to access them, yeah there's all kinds of barriers to that.
Speaker 4:Oh God, I'm sure. Yeah, there's all kinds of barriers to that. And then also there's just legal barriers, you know, with their cases and stuff. So you know, it's not just an easy transition from coming out of Rikers, right into, you know, supportive housing or into your mental health program.
Speaker 4:You still have to transition to the transition. Yeah, I mean, and one of the biggest components is housing, right, like, where are you going to live? You know what happened to the place that you were living in for the eight months you were at Rikers, like. You know who was paying the rent?
Speaker 4:You know stuff like that so, yeah, so there's so many different issues. To me, housing is one of the biggest issues and I think, probably one of the biggest, like one of the biggest grievances and commonalities for everybody inside. You know where? Where am I going to live?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean that makes sense to me, like the only comparison I can do is when you know like I had my stay at Bellevue and the psych ward, for, you know, almost a month, and majority of people in there were homeless to begin with. And so when they're released, if they're released, when they're released, where do they go? What is the transition? And I thought about that all the time when I was in there and getting to know people and I remember one guy in particular that said, hey, I'll see you at the library, are you ever down at the library? And I realized, oh, because that's where he stays all day. It was almost to the point where they were better off in the psych ward because they had a bed and food and didn't want to leave. So I would see a lot of people act even crazier. I mean, they're, you know, mental issues, but almost heighten it because it was a safe place.
Speaker 4:Yeah, actually that's a really common thing at Rikers and at jails and prisons. Well, at jails, definitely all across the nation um, there's a term, um it's called frequent flyers and it's um, it's people who just keep coming back um, not necessarily because they're like a bad seed or whatever yeah it's because it's convenient and it's a place for them to live, and especially for people who have.
Speaker 4:So this is a thing that it's not well known, um, but the the one of only two groups in this entire country that have um, that have uh, are entitled to free health care, are incarcerated people oh wow.
Speaker 4:So, so once you're arraigned, um, or you're sentenced, you're, you have access to health care. Um, yeah, but you look, you don't have the right to vote, so you don't have any agency in how that health care is delivered, but you're getting health care. So if you have, let's say, you have cancer or you have diabetes or something and you're living on the street and you can't get insulin, so then you get locked up, you're getting your insulin, you're right. It's literally life or death, right, um? So so there's that. Then there's also, um, you know, know, it's well, it's not funny, but, um, you know, the trend is that in the summer, less people get locked up. Um, in the winter it's cold, and so people want to stay warm. Um, this summer it's been especially hot. There's been a lot of heat waves and whatever, and at Rikers had at my facility at least the AC works really well, and so people have been getting locked up and coming in, yeah, because it's too hot to live outside, and I mean, that's just, that's the real, though.
Speaker 2:I mean like, again, psych ward was the same sort of scenario where people and that's what they were telling me too.
Speaker 2:You know, people come in during really hot times, really cold times and if you're sick and that just reminds me of, like, my friend I had this friend Paso, you know RIP, but he loved going to jail and prison, because when he was yeah, I shouldn't have said his name, but when he didn't have a place to stay or his teeth were falling out because of his addiction or whatever, he could go and get dental care and get health care and he would write letters and just say I'm having a great time at camp, basically and they were minor offenses.
Speaker 2:You know graffiti what is that minor offenses?
Speaker 4:they're like what is that minor offenses? Minor offenses like petty larcenies and stuff. Yeah, exactly, just something to and and imagine that, like that's, our society right now is where you want to do something unlawful so you can be safe yeah, and you know, and a lot of people will, will, um, you know are quick to say you know, are quick to say, like, you know are quick to say, oh, you know that person is, that's just a lazy person who should, you know, be contributing to society, or something.
Speaker 4:But it's. We have not. We have not ever afforded a support system for that person to be able to pick themselves up and get on with their life.
Speaker 2:That person doesn't want to keep coming back to jail?
Speaker 4:no, exactly like I mean 100 percent. You know people don't want to keep coming back to Rikers. No, and you know, and especially Rikers, you know, there there is definitely a thing where people who get sentenced would much rather go spend their prison sentence upstate, like nine years upstate, than another day at Rikers. Yeah, for sure, and so there's no sense that people want to keep coming back to Rikers.
Speaker 4:but if you're getting a roof over your head and you're getting, you know and and the medical treatment that you need and for a lot of the mental health patients getting the mental health access that you need, and for a lot of the people who have substance use issues a lot of them do come back to to get the clarity that they need. The only moments of sobriety they have are when they're locked up.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, yeah, I mean listen, I think it makes total sense Not comparing myself to any of this, but I think daily on the fact that what would happen if I lost my insurance and couldn't take my meds, I mean when?
Speaker 1:I'm not on my meds.
Speaker 2:I'm a psycho, you know, and I think about that and I think well, I'd probably just have to readmit myself or do a crime, you know what?
Speaker 1:I mean Like I think about, it's so sad that we're at this state.
Speaker 4:That's where we're at Right, but I do. This is right, but I do. I think this is a system that, yeah, we've contrived as a society, and I think about jails I?
Speaker 2:I mean, I've been, I watched a lot of murder, so I've been thinking about that a lot, but I do, I think about if I could handle it, because that's a possibility, because I don't have any money saved up and I have all these mental issues and I'm on all these meds that cost thousands of dollars a month and if I don't have my insurance, I won't not be able to afford them and could lose everything. Am I willing to do that? And I think every day, yes, and it's so sad that we're in a situation that that's where our brains go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had a conversation with someone just the other day about the shelter that they built in our neighborhood, which is a little further out in the cuts in the more industrial side, and how there was such an uproar and people fighting it. They're like we don't want people, you know, hanging out in the parks like, but y'all don't realize they can't be there in the day. Where the hell are they going to go? They're going to go to the parks and why did they build something so far from access to services, to employment, to anything, just having a bunch of people who are, who have records, who have mental illnesses, who have substance abuse issues and there's no support? You just have a bed yeah, so you're like.
Speaker 3:What are the choices? Hospitals, shelters and living in the park or jail or prison, but the. You know how. How is this going to change? How can can? We amend the system. Do you have any thoughts on how to do it?
Speaker 2:Do you have a solution?
Speaker 4:I mean, you know, and the shelter system too is. I mean, a lot of the people who are at Rikers have spent time in the shelters and they don't want a referral back to the shelter yeah, you know they're like what's up with housing.
Speaker 4:You know, and I think that is a big component you know, prior to working at Rikers, you know, I I don't know if you remember I had worked at city council for a little bit and I was was working on legislation there and we were working on a housing bill that would remove the criminal background check from housing applications so that you didn't have to check off that box, that you have a felony, felony and you know, and that that was a very important bill. It got shot down while we were in office, but then it that bill actually just got passed a couple months ago.
Speaker 3:Yeah oh wow, that's awesome. You'd only have to if you're it's just, it basically would it yeah yeah, so it.
Speaker 4:it removes the background check from rental applications, except in cases of sex predators. Okay, yeah, but it doesn't change the skyrocketing cost of housing right that everybody experiences, regardless of your criminal background right, Right exactly. So I think you know the shelters are, I mean, it's good in theory and whatever, but housing is a big issue that is exacerbating a lot of other issues, including mental health, I mean across the nation housing, just in general I mean, look what they're doing in LA right now, right With Echo Park.
Speaker 2:Oh, they're just doing a sweep. They're just doing a sweep, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Like fucking Adams did under the BQE to install paid parking that no one uses. Oh, I know you disrupted free parking for your citizens and you removed people who had built their communities. And if you're, I mean, you know about this, but if you're homeless and you have a safe community, that's all you fucking have.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you built up this network and, yes, you're outside.
Speaker 4:Those were very peaceful communities. Yeah, exactly, I mean.
Speaker 3:I live here. It's two blocks from my house.
Speaker 2:I mean remember the guy with the dog. I love that guy with his dog and he loves that dog so much and it was a safe community, exactly Like it wasn't. I think he's back there.
Speaker 3:There's a mattress and he's been hanging out, but he is obviously schizophrenic or around that, and he has this dog that comes when he walks around town new outfits oh yeah fully wrapped in winter clothes. He's got I mean, this dog is loved and cared for, and that is the thing. That's the other thing about animals, and I know you've got an another side bar on that one, um, but it's like but for what?
Speaker 2:But you see how much he cares for that dog. I mean he would do anything for that dog and you know it's just heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking the whole thing.
Speaker 3:And you were working on an initiative too about animals.
Speaker 4:Well, yeah, I'm curious. It's not a black lab, is it?
Speaker 2:No, it's a little, it's like a tiny little sch it. No, it's like he it's a little, it's like a tiny little like you know who you'd recognize.
Speaker 3:He's a larger man.
Speaker 2:He looks like james marr, kind of okay but, but, with this tiny dog, but the dog and he's got a cart now he does got a cart, okay I probably would yeah, the dog's always wrapped up in bundles and hang out over by the cS on Manhattan, and now he's over here, yeah.
Speaker 3:Who's?
Speaker 4:the lab, I had met a guy. So yeah, when they had the encampment under the BQE, I had met a guy who lived there, who had a black lab, and I interviewed him and wrote an op-ed. This is when I was at city council. This is when I was at city council.
Speaker 4:This is when I worked on a bill that basically the city has a mandate to provide shelter to anybody who needs shelter. But up until this bill you had you could choose between your right to shelter or your pet if you showed up to the shelter. Yeah, if you showed up to the shelter with your dog, you had you had to choose between the shelter and your dog. And what happened was a couple times the city people would put their dog in the animal shelter for the night to stay warm and the animal shelter mistakenly euthanized the dog.
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh my god, yeah and um, so and then so basically, I know and imagine so. So we're all dog owners and think about how much those dogs do for us. Now think about when you live on the street, how much empowerment that dog gives you. So this bill stemmed from that and also the bill was built around domestic violence shelters that had started recently allowing pets, and one of the biggest reasons why victims of domestic violence were not going into shelter was because the children did not want to leave the animals, so the victims would continue to stay in those situations.
Speaker 4:And then so DV shelters started allowing, a few of them started allowing pets in. So our bill was built around basically these two things. So I worked on this bill and basically lobbied every member of city council who had not signed on and then got the bill passed unanimously on. And then got the bill passed unanimously and um, and then just uh, two or three months ago, the first shelter in the Bronx um, that is now allowing um animals.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 4:I love that so it was cool to see, um the like you know, the government system actually worked yeah, right, right definitely I mean, and it seems like a small thing, but it's not.
Speaker 2:I mean, like you said, it's just so important. You know that bond yeah, that you have, especially when you're so alone, when you have nothing. You know that bond with whatever animal it is like oh, I know that's.
Speaker 4:We had a um we we had someone at our, our city council office, um, she was a community liaison who, um the bill was like she was a big reason why the bill had, um, what was even happening in the first place? Because she was a first-hand victim of domestic violence um and she had. She, her kids had a pet turtle and she wouldn't let the turtle yeah, and this all was, like you know, because she had to stay in a DV situation because of her kid's turtle. Wow, yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know like it's crazy to think about it, but it makes so much sense when you think about it.
Speaker 3:But those are things, issues that just people don't know. Yes, systemic things and support and anti-recidivism and support and exit, but just even simple things like animals, yeah, and so what brought you away from doing policy into practicum?
Speaker 4:So actually you know I was planning to stay in the macro end of this because that you know that year at city council I had been part of like about 20 bills that had passed and it was such an amazing experience and I wanted to keep working in that.
Speaker 4:But after I had finished my master's in social work, I took the exam for my license to practice, the um, the exam for my license um to practice. And it was just, I just took the exam because I had just finished school and I might as well have taken it Um. And then when I took the exam, I was like you know what? What? What benefit will this have for me in terms of criminal justice? And I realized that for me to really know the issues as best as possible, I need to be in a more intimate environment, and so the license allows me to work on an individual level and to work within this intimate space. So I found the job at Rikers and um and applied, and you know, I'm within the first moment of being at Rikers, I learned was already learning so much yeah, so every day, every moment is just like you, you know, is really profound.
Speaker 4:So I'm really happy. I'm here, you know, and Rikers is slated to close in 2027. Oh, really, yeah, by law, it's in the city charter that it's supposed to close. Why, well, city council had, I think, in 2017, they had voted to close it, and the idea is that four jails are going to be built in the boroughs or renovated. So the one in Brooklyn, on Atlantic, is being renovated now, the one in Chinatown is being renovated, there's one being built in Queens and one being built in, I think, in the Bronx or Harlem or somewhere, and the idea is to separate what's happening at Rikers, where a lot of like the majority of gang activity that happens in New York City stems from Rikers. Almost all the gangs that are in New York City were created in Rikers, so a lot of it is to separate out what's happening.
Speaker 2:Gotcha.
Speaker 4:But the idea is to close Rikers. After all, four of these jails are built, but like my neighbor.
Speaker 3:But then you're taking the knowledge of cell building to now four locations with an expanded community yeah and then you can actually multiply like a cancer.
Speaker 4:More so well, and also this is all I mean to me very much involved in, like you know, like real estate lobby and yeah, contracts complex and contracts and money companies.
Speaker 3:One word money.
Speaker 4:And also, my neighbor is an electrician a union electrician who is working on the Queens jail, and he told me that that thing's not going to be done until like 2031.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 4:So there's no way their record's going to close, but also it's you also, I don't know. There's no easy solution to this. To me, I think there's, first off, there's many, many different things that need to be addressed. One of them is to me, being a social worker in mental health, I see a lot of things that happened that could have been avoided in the community and we had resources in the community, for example and this is a little bit heavy, so just bear with me but it's been light so far.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 4:So there's a. This is kind of tough, but there's a lot of instances of women who have killed their kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And you know, when I met the first one on my first day at Rikers, I thought this was a one-off situation and she was a high-profile case and then I didn't know that I would have like seven or eight assigned to me alone. Oh my God, like yeah. And when I look at the commonalities between them, they're all from neighborhoods where there are unmet needs. They all. There were all cries for help. There were that went unmet. You know there was. There weren't resources to help them, to protect them, and you're not seeing these come from certain other neighborhoods in the city. Yeah, you know, they all have commonalities of trauma and sexual victimization, physical and emotional abuse, poverty. You know there's a lot of commonalities and the end results could have been avoided, you know like so many signs and so even before we talk about closing Rikers and all this stuff, there are other things you know it's like.
Speaker 4:So which rabbit hole are we going to go down?
Speaker 2:you know where do we start? To not solve the problem Because, like you said, it's so complicated, right, but there's got to be a place that we can start before Rikers.
Speaker 1:I guess you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, like it seems like such a last result, last ditch effort, result, last-ditch effort, but we're not giving these people any. We're not giving anyone any tools. Yeah, to sort of maneuver through their mental illnesses and through the trauma you know, like oh, it's just more macabre level.
Speaker 3:It's a cultural thing too where it's we're by the bootstraps, it's not a hey, we're supportive society. It's known to everyone. There are these resources, whether they exist or don't exist. It's just not how our society functions we don't form. As a collective we don't, aren't really a community. So community centers are for children. They're not for all. The support of financial, mental, health resources for adults to maintain families like it's just not part of our system. So it's a little fucking dark that we have to change everything.
Speaker 3:The way that we think about things as well as actually implementing projects, structures of course I mean think of how hard it is to get health insurance.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean? I'm fucking masters. I have like three fucking degrees and I can barely get through my dog's insurance let alone mine, I know. Navigating claims and like disputing things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to even get someone on the phone 0.007 of this claim will support X amount.
Speaker 3:Like what the fuck.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm smart and educated and I'm overwhelmed by this yeah, yes, I mean agreed I think I think everyone is, and so now imagine, and you have resources. Now imagine having zero resources and children, and you're just trying to pay your rent, if you even you know what I mean. And now to get health insurance, yeah, it's almost impossible you don't even think about that as an option, yeah, right. And then when everybody you know is in the same situation with you and like maybe to get health insurance yeah, it's almost impossible you don't even think about that as an option, yeah Right.
Speaker 3:And then when everybody you know is in the same situation with you and like maybe they get smacked around a little bit, or like money's tight and you eat like shit and like people are sick because you're eating like shit, because money's tight, and like it, just it gets overwhelming, and so I think there isn't a one-part solution.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there's, yeah, and I think within Rikers too, there's. I mean, hopefully they're going to start bringing back some programming. You know, last year Eric Adams had cut a bunch of programming that had been happening, like acting classes and things like that.
Speaker 3:To support mental health and normalcy and full-function grounded human beings. Yeah, yeah, so hopefully some of those programs start to come back.
Speaker 4:Support mental health and normalcy and full function grounded human beings, yeah, so hopefully some of those programs start to come back. I think in this year's budget the city council put back some of that stuff.
Speaker 2:I think so we'll see what can we do. We're getting close to question time. What can we do? And we're getting close to question time, but what can we do as, like, listeners and, and you know, just listening to you talk about it and is there anything that we can do, like, do you have any advice? You know, is it it's? Is it writing letters to the council? Is it, you know? Is there any, or is there nothing we can do? It's so hard.
Speaker 4:It's tough. You know I've thought about this because I I I don't know I've talked to you. I know before's not a cookie cutter reason for why people are in situations that they're in. You know it's I don't really know what we can do. It's I don't really know what we can do, I think. I think also, as New York changes a lot, we're also getting a new crowd of people who are coming in here who are not necessarily prone to contributing.
Speaker 4:I was going to say caring at all about anything except for themselves they're just here and just think that New York is going to be this thing that is handed to them on a plate and are not necessarily about this communal community kind of thing that we're all part of.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think this goes to us as participants in society and culture. Through our actions, our behaviors, our conversations, we can contribute and I mean this sounds so fucking privileged to say, but that's the part that I can actively do on a daily basis is try and be a kind, empathetic human and the others see that around me. Right, hopefully, that kind of spreads are we like. Having the conversation about the shelter, I was like they don't have resources and then someone was like oh, I didn't even think of that.
Speaker 3:I was like yeah, the shelter should be more metropolitantly placed, because now they have to walk half an hour to get anywhere or take the bus and like yeah so so yes, have. When you see them hanging out in the park, they have nowhere else to fucking go yeah and where are you going to go? In your little mom and pop shop? They're not hiring them, so like. Let's just like talk about things and everyone share the knowledge that we have and be a little more fucking empathetic yeah, I think.
Speaker 4:Um, you know, following accounts like coalition for the homeless, or or the Youth Justice Opportunity Act, which is trying to raise the age to 25, to basically throw out convictions, up to 25. Up to 25, and that's based on, basically, that's based on actual science, that that we know that the brain doesn't fully develop until 25. Yeah, right, so, um, so you know you shouldn't be penalized for decisions that you made, knucklehead, we've all done dumb stuff.
Speaker 2:We've all done it at 19, right?
Speaker 4:why should you be yeah, 22? Why should you be penalized for life? Right um, so you know um, but but you can't even rent a car before 25.
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly why yeah?
Speaker 2:why are you?
Speaker 4:incarcerated here, you're not allowed to transport your friend right, um, but you know it is difficult, rita, to answer that question I know, I'm sorry, I don't know.
Speaker 2:No, no, but it's.
Speaker 4:It is. I mean, it is a question I do get asked, but it's, I think, really just being just cognizant of other people is just the first step. Yeah, um, and that's it.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, that's beautiful thanks for fighting the fight and educating us. Fucking love you I love you so much.
Speaker 2:I do Like. I've had so many. My eyes have welled up. I've had so many goosebumps I'm just like I don't even know. Now we're going to play fuck, kill, be and answer a question.
Speaker 1:Like.
Speaker 2:I don't even know.
Speaker 3:We're taking a weird turn now.
Speaker 4:this is a little okay you know a different I know, you know, I listened to the other podcast and and like there's so many funny moments, but then this one is just like.
Speaker 2:So all right, let's do our question.
Speaker 3:These are the magic, magical questions that seem to like all I mean.
Speaker 2:I'm jinxing it right now by saying that they always have something to do with what we talk about, do they? I don't know. Okay.
Speaker 3:What makes you most stressed? Oh boy, oh God we just talk about a bunch of dark shit. I know, I think all of the above.
Speaker 2:Yeah life. You know, I okay, I've that question. It makes me really stressed. Yeah, right, um, I've always had some stress.
Speaker 4:I think, uh, this might be too deep for this to as an answer but but I've always had some issues with, like my like, like identity, I guess, and I've had a lot of stress about, like, whether I'm Indian or I'm American or what my identity is. And it's always been a stressor in my life, like my entire life, you know, like my name, my religion, my skin color, you know that's, that's always been an underlying source of stress, like that has. That, I think at some point I've just learned, is just I've accepted it's just going to be with me forever.
Speaker 3:To, to tagline or I don't know what the word segue. Do you think that because you are a brown person doing the work that you're doing, being in the prisons, that gives you a certain not that you're coming from those spaces, but a certain access to people than a white woman?
Speaker 4:I think so.
Speaker 3:That that people are more open.
Speaker 4:I see what you're going. I think so. Yeah, I do. I think so, I, yeah. Also one thing that's interesting at at Rutgers, the, the facility that I work in. It's called Rose Singer Center, we call it Rosie's, and there's not many males in in that facility and in the reentry and transition department I'm the only male social worker, so but yes, I think there is. I think it does help being brown. And also, prior to this, I used to work in East New York at an organization called Good Shepherds. I worked with kids who were young adults, who were on probation, and I used to go out there every day, probation, um. And I used to go out there every day and um. One day I was talking to the kids and I told them I just happened to mention that my parents were from from India and one of the kids was like like wait, mrv, you're not black right, it's like what?
Speaker 4:I just assumed they knew that I was. Indian I just saw my name.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean your name, but you're kind of a bigger sleep around. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 4:I get Dominican a lot. But then I was like nah, man, my parents are from India. And then that kid was like whatever, you're one of us and I'm like all right. You're like okay one of us, and I'm like all right, you know, yeah, cool, um, but but no, I've never really like had any of like, I've never really felt uncomfortable or out of place in that environment, um, but that's what I mean, like the other kids or adults or whatever like are more at ease?
Speaker 3:yes, yeah, I think so, and I'm and I'm more, like, are more at ease? Yes, yeah, I think so, and I'm more and I'm more.
Speaker 4:I'm more at ease than I was like in school growing up. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So so, yeah, that's my long winded answer to.
Speaker 2:That was a great answer. Yeah, how about you guys? Yeah? What stresses you out, marissa. Um, how about you guys? Yeah, what stresses you out, marissa? Oh boy, look, she's already stressed out, she's rubbing her face scratching her nose.
Speaker 3:I won't go as macro. It's a little more in the moment. It's been quite a stressful week for me. I won't go into that, but to say that I try. I know I worry about hypotheticals a lot and ken tries to take me down so I stress myself out, worrying about negative hypotheticals because I want to be prepared for situations in case the worst case scenario comes up. So I work through all of that and I work myself up and usually it's never the worst thing that I imagine. But I feel prepared, even though I'm stressed. I'm trying to prevent future stress. So that stresses me out. But being unprepared or being surprised when I feel that I have prepared myself for something, or when I get caught off guard when I feel that I've done the work or that I don't get it, I don't know that makes sense.
Speaker 2:When you think of in relative to your week this week, that makes sense. And you know, when you think of in relative relatively to your week this week, yeah, that makes total sense, you know.
Speaker 3:And it goes back to, I think, even like math as a kid it was like I should get this. I mean on a smaller, petty level, I should get this, and I can't understand why I don't get this. So I think that has just manifested Totally get this. So I think that is just manifested. Yeah, um, totally, so yeah speaking in code.
Speaker 2:Mine, mine lately has been. This is a new thing, I was just thinking about it last night. It's been a brand new thing. But it's haunting me and it's just regret I have lately. It's such a. It's so weird but I have so much regret over very specific things that I have or haven't done or how I've lived my life or continue to live my life, sort of thing. But it kind of hit me out of nowhere. It's just been happening over the last couple of months. But it's just this all-consuming weight of just regret Regret that I didn't have children, regret that I don't have a house with a yard, regret that I didn't have children, regret that I don't have a house with a yard, regret that I have no money. And I also have this other voice in my head that is constantly saying but look at what you have.
Speaker 1:Look at everything that you have.
Speaker 2:But that voice is like I guess it's an angel and demon thing, right, and right now the demon is so fucking intense. Everything reminds me of regret. It's wild. To me it's just absolutely wild. And I'm, you know, I take medication and I have these. I am intelligent enough, I'm trying. I can't find the word right now that I'm looking for, but I keep wanting to say kosher, but that's not it. Self-aware, Self-aware, Thank you. I'm self-aware enough to know that like this isn't awful.
Speaker 3:You're having a moment.
Speaker 2:I'm having a moment, but this moment has been lasting for so long and it stresses me out. It really does Like it's like I cannot find happiness in or contentment in in my situation. Even right now, listening, I'm like, fuck, what can I do? Should I go back to school, should I, you know? But seriously, you know, you think about that, you think about change and how you want change and I think maybe I'm experiencing it's stressing me the fuck out because I'm having one of those moments again it probably happens every seven to ten years where I need to change, like something isn't working.
Speaker 3:Does that make sense? You can, in the dailies, focus on something positive, or, like you know, a gratitude, or like I can make a choice. What is the thing that is going to fulfill me the most or make me feel most proud of myself? Yeah, I need money to adopt a child.
Speaker 2:That's what I need Everybody out there, our listeners.
Speaker 3:Don't hate it.
Speaker 1:It's been a while since I've read a kid.
Speaker 2:I don't even want a baby.
Speaker 1:I don't want a baby.
Speaker 2:I just want like I tried to.
Speaker 3:You'll probably get a 12-year-old troubled youth.
Speaker 2:That's fucking great, I mean. So I did. I applied for Big Brother, big Sister a while back this is maybe a year ago and I got really far down the process down to like the interview level, where it's about two hours and three people interview you and they were like we love you, we think you're amazing. Blah, blah, blah, we just can't do it. Because of your meds yeah, and they even said they were like listen. Because of your meds, oh, yeah, and they even said they were like listen, we think you would be perfect because of your mental history and that you've worked really hard on it, and blah, blah, blah, but we just can't do it.
Speaker 4:That's so messed up, right, and they said that too. They said that too. That's so discriminatory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they said that the woman went outright. She was like I this is awful, I hate it, you know. But it does make sense to a certain degree, but you know. So that's my stress.
Speaker 4:I think, well, man, all three of our stressors were like so heavy it wasn't.
Speaker 3:It wasn't even like the election or anything.
Speaker 4:I know.
Speaker 2:I know we didn't even do the election yet do you want to know how about? We'll do my, we'll do the three. Okay, well, I'll. I'll turn it up a little. Okay, I'll lighten it up. I mean Turn it up later so it's all good we have.
Speaker 3:we have everything on this, and I you know, vivek, I asked you a while ago. I've been wanting to have these conversations with you and to learn more about what you were doing, and saving those questions for the podcast yeah I'm like I want to do it twice, I want it to be spontaneous and I want um. So I really. I know it was a little dark and heavy, but I think it was really great and I hope a lot of people fucking listen and share this, because how would we know?
Speaker 4:yeah, no, I really appreciate this opportunity really I smell a part two coming. Oh, I mean we've only reached the surface.
Speaker 2:We haven't even touched the surface really.
Speaker 3:you know, yeah, and we didn't even dig into like deep in the bar world, all of that shit too. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, mental illness there I mean we could do could do like, honestly, we should almost do like a panel, just a table of you know where we can talk about just mental illness. I think that mental health is.
Speaker 4:I mean, it is such a it's still such a taboo, yeah, subject, um, but it's something that we all are starting to approach and be like. You know, one of the things is that we need to all just start being comfortable with the uncomfortable, exactly and and like let's get to that point together.
Speaker 3:You know, one of the things is that we need to all just start being comfortable with the uncomfortable, exactly and and like let's get to that point together you know, yeah, cheesy as it is and as ridiculous it is, I think instagram and this new generation of whether it's over divulging and over sharing the whole openness about anxiety, yeah, and like levels, and different and and and and neurodiverse people, and and anxiety, you know of, not necessarily medication or anything.
Speaker 3:But just like we all don't have to pretend, and yes, I get overwhelmed, yes, I can vomit because I work myself up, Like. I've done that since a child right and now I can talk about these things where I can say like I'm feeling overwhelmed, I need to like, just step away and it is more societally acceptable to have those conversations rather than be like, oh, fake, being sick or like an emergency came up, that you can actually just say I'm feeling overwhelmed by humans.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to be able to make it yeah, right and like that's cool. So it's a small baby step yeah, yeah oh, all right, wait mental illness we're gonna yeah, so let's do one. I've already got people and we've got I got my people okay all right I think, aj should come back um I'm talking about my people for the.
Speaker 2:Oh, your people, okay, oh, I thought you meant your people.
Speaker 3:Marissa's just talking out loud. I'm thinking of our panel. Okay, I'm thinking Fuck kill be. And Vivek has done his homework. Fuck, kill be, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you got a fuck one, you got a kill one and you got a be one, Not marry.
Speaker 3:You, and then you got a.
Speaker 2:B1. Not Mary, You're going to actually embody that B1. Yeah, B1. It's a different level. It's stressful isn't it.
Speaker 3:He's pulling his hair now he just fainted.
Speaker 2:Okay Okay, Because we talked about it earlier, we're going to do Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera and my girl, Miley Cyrus. Oh boy, it's a tough one, isn't it? I know my answer because I came up with it.
Speaker 3:Do you want me to give you mine, just so we can go for it?
Speaker 2:So we can go into it. Yeah, let's do it inspo. I'm going to kill Christina Aguilera because she seems fine. I'm going to fuck Britney Spears because I'm really worried about her and I love her so much.
Speaker 1:I want her to be okay.
Speaker 2:And then it'd be Miley Cyrus, because Miley Cyrus is cool as fuck and I love Miley Cyrus so much.
Speaker 3:Didn't she just get inducted to some fame or something?
Speaker 2:She should, because she's great.
Speaker 3:She's very talented and she's the I mean Christine thing, but compared to Brittany and being whored out as a child, she seems pretty good she does a lot of a lot for the community too, so I think like such as like the gay community. She does a lot of like isn't she gay or queer or whatever?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 3:I think she bats both sides, all sides good for her, go for it.
Speaker 2:Girl, go get it yeah, all right, it's a tough line. Anyone else now?
Speaker 3:okay, I I would like to be miley yeah right, because she's so cool the yeah, I don't know the whole, I mean, but they're both disney babies, um, they're all I know, they're all, oh yeah they are disney babies.
Speaker 2:They're all Disney babies. Yeah, they are Disney babies.
Speaker 3:Actually, can I be Keri Russell? She's not on the team. She seems the most normal.
Speaker 2:Keri Russell from the Americans.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she was in the Disney club with all of them and she's the most normal and I'm sorry. When I was living in Mexico, felicity was on my TV or whatever one of the channels, and it was in English and it was like I got to be an American teenager that I never was because I watched Felicity.
Speaker 1:And where I felt super alone.
Speaker 3:So, felicity, I want to be very real. So Marissa's changing the rules and pulling in a pinch hitter so you can pull in.
Speaker 4:So for you, vivi you can pull in a pinch hitter, if you want Okay.
Speaker 3:If you don't want to fuck with anyone here I guess we're doing pinch hitters and I think I'm going to fuck Brittany too, because I do want to hug her and take care of her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, make sure she also the cuddling after.
Speaker 3:yeah I really want to like pamper her yeah, that's what I mean. Exactly, yeah, exactly be nice and yeah same um, and I guess, yeah, then I'd, I'd kill are you killing christina? I'm sorry, wait, what are you doing with carrie? I'm just gonna be here. She's like normal and famous, but not too famous. You can probably go travel around other places.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, babe pressure um I would.
Speaker 4:I would kill christina um christina yeah, just because I like she doesn't like do it. Yeah, she doesn't do anything for me one way or another.
Speaker 3:So though the most talented, very talented singer, very talented, but I don't care, yeah same and then I would.
Speaker 4:I would be Miley Cyrus so that I could fuck and save Britney Spears oh cute, yeah, fucking social justice warrior coming at the end we did it, we did it, we did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's such a good answer. That is a good answer. Well, on that note, I guess we're going to peace out.
Speaker 4:Okay, hey, thank you guys hey love you so much.
Speaker 3:This was great. This was enlightening. Thanks for being you too.
Speaker 4:Thanks for giving me my first job and being such a good friend. Thank you so much. Thank you I truly do.
Speaker 2:It's been an honor, thank you, yeah, okay, all right, love you guys. Wait, how do I stop it? What? No, yeah.
