From Software Sales to Financial Planning: Michael E. Pyle's Journey through LinkedIn and Authentic Marketing

When faced with a sudden career shift, Michael E. Pyle dove headfirst into LinkedIn to build the financial planning business he'd been dreaming of behind the scenes. Tune in as we explore Michael's move from software sales to establishing himself as a financial advisor who brings a fresh and relatable perspective to sales professionals grappling with the roller coaster of commission-based income. 

On LinkedIn, Michael blends authenticity with humor to build true, genuine connections online. In this episode, he sheds light on how his voice has evolved on LinkedIn into what it is today and how he manages to show up consistently despite his busy schedule.

Connect with Michael:

• LinkedIn: Michael E. Pyle
• Website: Challenge Everything Financial Planning

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to the Finance Marketing Podcast, a show that empowers finance professionals to market their businesses in ways that feel good and actually achieve results. I'm your host, hilary. I've been working with folks in financial services to develop marketing strategies that work and create results-oriented marketing content since 2020. And I've learned a lot about what works in finance marketing, what doesn't work and where financial services pros get stuck. Join us each Friday as we explore real, effective ways to market your finance business and connect with folks who truly embody your ideal clients. Today, I'm chatting with Michael E Pile.

Speaker 1: 0:46

Michael spent a decade in software sales and then transitioned to a financial planner. He showed sales professionals how to use their commission to buy their freedom. Now Michael and I connected quite a while back on LinkedIn and over the months that we've been following each other I've really watched Michael build just a wonderful, engaging LinkedIn presence through his personal stories and really unique financial insights. One of my favorite parts of Michael's story is that he was actually fired from his sales job for posting on LinkedIn and while that initially was not a part of his plan, it did result in him giving his all to his buddy in financial planning business and really diving headfirst into something that I know he now really really enjoys.

Speaker 1: 1:27

So in this conversation, michael actually shares his process for posting so consistently on LinkedIn, which I really appreciate because Michael is a very busy guy. He's running his financial planning firm, he has four young children and the content he posts every day is really really thoughtful and engaging. So, without further ado, let's get into it. Michael, thank you so much for sitting down to chat with me today. I'm so excited to get into your story.

Speaker 2: 1:53

Same. No, I know we've been well acquainted on LinkedIn and it's always fun to talk offline and, yeah, I've been very excited for this one.

Speaker 1: 2:01

Yeah, me too. You have some legendary posts on LinkedIn. I mean, there's so many, and of course, the one that sticks out to me is one that sticks out to many people in your LinkedIn circle, which is when you posted pictures of yourself dressed up as a lumberjack, and so I know you have a very interesting story with LinkedIn, and so I love if you could take us back kind of to the beginning, maybe even before you were a financial advisor, and what you were doing beforehand, how LinkedIn kind of played a role in what you're doing now and we'll go from there.

Speaker 2: 2:33

Yeah, I think you know for folks who have followed me they probably know that I was originally in sales software sales primarily for a little over a decade after college and just realized over time I wasn't super passionate about it, like it wasn't something that I went home at night and was very just felt fulfilled. It was a job, it made really good money and I kept making good money. But I wanted something more than just the money. So over time I just became more and more interested in the conversation around money and how to help people and I think a lot of advisors who talk about their beginnings they talk about helping friends or family, with little questions here and there about a 401k or things like that, and I really enjoyed it. So when COVID hit, got my master's in financial planning and then that ended in summer of 22. Studied for my licensing exam, passed that immediately. Once I passed that I immediately filed paperwork with the state of Kansas to get my own firm up and running. I wanted to run my own shop because I wanted to run it how I wanted to run it and not how somebody you know, a big corporation wanted me to do things. And that led me to LinkedIn. I knew I wanted to serve salespeople.

Speaker 2: 3:50

I was in sales for a long, long time. I know what it's like being in sales. Money is very emotional, very behavioral. If I can understand where salespeople are coming from, I can be a better financial planner for those salespeople. So I was like, all right, well, I'm going to start marketing myself to salespeople. And what better platform than LinkedIn? Salespeople are all over LinkedIn, so I wanted to build trust quickly, and so I talked about things that I figured would hit home with people, which was some of the toxic corporate culture environments that I had been in previously. Nothing that I had.

Speaker 2: 4:26

You know, I wasn't dumb enough to go through like anything that my current company, anything like that, but my current company, even though I blocked the 250-ish employees that I, you know, was coworkers with. I blocked them on LinkedIn because I didn't. I wasn't trying to cause a ruckus, I wasn't trying to like I love the company, I loved the product, I loved the. I absolutely loved the people. I mean it was the best sales thing I'd ever done in my career up to that point, and it wasn't. It was nothing more than just me trying to build out my voice and trying to connect and build trust with other salespeople who don't know me other than from LinkedIn. So I mentioned, you know, past sales jobs where I had been mistreated and I got some early hits right. I got some people that were it messaged me hey, I same thing happened to me, or hey, like I love what you talked about. Well, unfortunately, my current company also found out through screenshots, who then got sent to you know, my manager and others.

Speaker 2: 5:23

And, long story short, even though I thought I was kind of invincible because I'd hit quota, the two years that I was there exceeded quota and was loved by a lot of different people Like I said, it was one of the best fits I'd ever had my boss pulled me in a meeting and a meeting there I thought I was going to get a raise, believe it or not. When he texted me to come in his office, I was like man, the last time he did that I got a raise. So I was like going in and you know there was a slight you know if I'm being honest with myself there was like a 5% of me thinking I hope this isn't about my LinkedIn stuff because this is kind of lined up in the timing but a 95% chance that this is a raise and I'm pumped. So I walked in and what he's like? What the hell are you doing on LinkedIn? And my heart just I mean my stomach it was a horrific feeling. So that long, long winded way of saying LinkedIn has been up and down for me.

Speaker 2: 6:16

The worst part of my life in the last decade probably was getting fired from LinkedIn. My wife was pregnant with our fourth kid and I had to go home and tell her that I was an idiot and it was my fault, right? Nobody else made me do anything on LinkedIn and it got me fired and I lost the job that I had made really good money that supported my family. She was primarily a stay-at-home mom, worked very, very, very part-time as a nurse, and so that part was tough. And she, my wife man. The only reason I don't like telling the stories is because I break up and choke up because she is a rock star and she didn't shame me, she didn't make me feel like an idiot, even though I felt like the biggest city on earth. She said who cares, I'll go back, I'll get a job, I'll work, and anytime I've lost focus or lost the feeling that it's working on LinkedIn, she's like look, you already got fired. That's the worst thing that's going to happen. Go all in, do it. Having somebody believe in you like that is possibly one of the most powerful things that can happen. It's a team effort. I'm a solo planner but I'm absolutely part of a team and I'm long winded here.

Speaker 2: 7:41

But that started my LinkedIn. But the LinkedIn that I now kind of view. It started off as I tapered off from talking about corporate culture because I was like man, I don't want anything else bad to happen and I started kind of losing my own voice and kind of going back in the trenches of what everybody else, every other financial planner, sounded like. And the post that you mentioned, the Lumberjack post. The funny thing is I recently looked back I'm going to make a post about it here soon, about my LinkedIn journey just this past year, and if you look back at the, you know, if you look at the impression count the amount of times that my post comes up and you know and into somebody's feed, the around the almost exact time as that lumberjack photo, the collection of photos that have me looking like an idiot that was. It showed my personality. I actually ended up getting a client from it, which is hilarious, and I probably got a few more people that will be clients down the road or maybe that was part of the way they found me and I had so much like.

Speaker 2: 9:01

It was so fun. People loved it and I love it. I like being the humorous, the funny guy, right like it's. It was fun for me, but it also the biggest thing that happened was I had fun showing my true personality, which is just goofy and funny, like I'm trying, like I like to make people laugh. That my LinkedIn kind of.

Speaker 2: 9:21

I mean it's it's it's upward trajectory from there because I started realizing you know what I can be myself. I can throw humor and sarcasm and even though you're not supposed to, you know right, it's it's text people might, might get it wrong and I and I do. I piss people off. I get it. You know no intention of pissing people off, but people read things the wrong way or or misinterpret. But I have had a ton of fun since that moment because I realized I can do things the way I want to do it and that's the whole reason of building the business on my own right, like I want to do things the way I want to do them not how you know, big box corporation tells me. So I'm going to shut up now because I feel like I talked for a long time straight, but hopefully that that gives a very good kind of LinkedIn journey for you.

Speaker 1: 10:04

Yeah, well, one thing that you said, I was like well, we can rap here. When you were like. You know, I showed up as an idiot on LinkedIn and like the rest is history. You know it's like you're being an idiot in your marketing and then the rest is history.

Speaker 1: 10:16

I love that. So. So two kind of follow-up related follow-up questions for you. So I know I've seen from your post on LinkedIn that that during that period so you got fired from your job for being on LinkedIn and then you kind of had to like give your all to LinkedIn, like that was kind of your the reason you had been fired and now you better make something work out of it. It kind of sounds like that's what, what happened there. So being in that for lack of a better word being in that kind of dark place emotionally, how hard was it to keep showing up on LinkedIn, and it sounds like for a while you weren't able to show up authentically. So how did you keep going and pushing through that and knowing that it was the right thing to keep doing?

Speaker 2: 10:59

That's a really good question, a very timely question, because I just had a post literally today. This is what February 2nd that we're recording this. I back in 2011. I was working a job and I hated it. It was an inside sales job, like you're on the phone all the time. It was a product that I just did not believe in at all, took it for the money, ironically, and I was trying to look further a ways to potentially make money or just you know, hobby something, and I and I wanted to start a YouTube channel and one of my co-workers, who had no YouTube experience, told me that's stupid. Youtube is saturated. This is 2011 and I've googled this and I believe YouTube was created in 2005, so we're talking about a six-year-old platform that's supposedly already saturated. From a guy that's never done it before.

Speaker 2: 11:50

And what did I do? I believed him and I stopped before I started and I look back at that. I'm like gosh even if I failed and I probably would have, who cares? I would have learned so much from being the kind of early on in YouTube and just you know, editing films and videos or putting spins. I mean, you get better as you practice, right, that's. That's pretty common, you know, for anybody, I think if you practice enough, you naturally are going to get better. And and I didn't get better because I never did it right. So it's like I.

Speaker 2: 12:22

When I started my LinkedIn journey, I told myself I don't give a sh it if nobody likes it, nobody comments, I'm gonna, I'm when I am, I am folk that LinkedIn is the platform I like, I'm, I'm, it's already in my head. Nobody's talking me out of it, I don't care what they say, I am doing this and I think that that right, there is like the, just the mentality of like I, I don't care, helped me and I lost it. I continue to stay consistent with it after I got fired, but I lost my voice. So I still consistently.

Speaker 2: 13:00

I mean those, some of those posts were just garbage, like, didn't provide value, but it it was important for me to continue on because it was building the habit, if you will right, staying consistent. So, even though some of those posts were really bad and I know I'd recognize that and I'd call them out for what they they were bad, but it helped me to stay consistent. And then I found my voice and it was like consistency plus my voice and my personality matched in the in the summer of 23, and ever since then it's been really fun, really fun, and business has gotten better and better too, ironically, right. So?

Speaker 1: 13:36

yeah, I really appreciate that you brought this up, because I think almost every every person I have ever talked to who is a content creator because that's basically what we're doing is we're creating content base and myself included, they say you know, I look back at my first years worth of content, my first six months or my first year, and I cringe at it and I think that's just kind of like a block that you have to overcome if you want to create content. Is you just have to like kind of put your head down and say I know what I'm going to create is crap in the beginning, in the beginning, but if I don't create the crap, I'm never going to create the magic either. I actually heard someone are you familiar with Paula Pant? She's the. Yeah, yeah, she.

Speaker 2: 14:15

I mean no where but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:18

So she has the afford anything podcast. It's one of the most successful finance podcast that's ever been, and I heard her speak at sincon this past fall when I was there and she said, yeah, I look back at my first like 30 podcast episodes and I just wish I could delete them. You know like they're so cringy, and so I just really appreciate that you brought that up, because I think it's something that everybody who now comfortably creates content has had to go through before. So it's really good to hear you know that repeated often and often. So back to back to the lumberjack post. That was kind of a turning point for you, um, and it really sounds like that was the post that allowed you to to feel free about writing and posting in your own voice. So what has it been like since then and what have you done since then to like keep the momentum going?

Speaker 2: 15:07

yeah, I can't say I have a uh, because those lumberjack photos were back and when I was uh in my like mid-upper 20s and I was drinking a couple bush lights with a roommate and slash buddy of mine and I was like, hey, will you take a few pictures of me being an idiot with a big ol beer and throwing a hatchet against a tree and and so I mean those are on my Facebook and and that's where I pulled them from for the post and I just thought it was funny. One day I was like I'm just gonna throw it on LinkedIn, see what happens, and it freaking blew up, which I just still think is hilarious. But so I don't have a ton of like those types of photos in my back pocket by any means, but I I it allowed me to not be fearful of bringing in humor. You know, justin, I think everyone knows, like the Justin Welsh, you know the individual who has absolutely took, you know, linkedin by storm and I think a lot of people started their LinkedIn journey because of him. But I mean him and some other really large creators that you know they. They'll talk about tips and tricks and they'll even say like, don't you know, don't use sarcasm or humor, and it's um to me, like, once you get almost like to a certain level, you're, as a creator, you you almost have to give more generic advice, because your audience is so large that more generic actually ends up connecting with more. So it's a weird, weird thing to think about.

Speaker 2: 16:32

I don't fault him by any means, but I also feel like you get so big, you start to kind of blend in with the, the one thing that you probably didn't like to begin with, right, like not to say I'm ever gonna be massive and and like a big box corporation, but it's kind of almost like that and I forget what's the, what's the phrase like live, live long enough to be the, become the villain or something like that. I forget the exact phrase or whatever, but I that's almost what I relate it to, but yeah, I, the using humor for me is is big and it's especially in the finance industry, and you probably see this even more than I do. I don't know what it is, but it's. It's almost like like everyone is so afraid to go outside the line and I probably crossed the line.

Speaker 2: 17:19

I know I crossed the line at times and you know it's some people I'm not going to vibe with and I understand that. But I also I go back to what do I want my life to look like? And I want my? There's, of course, family side. Family side, yes, of course I want a bunch of things with my family, but from a client perspective, I want people that I would love to go out to coffee or have a beer with and just like shoot the, shoot the shot.

Speaker 2: 17:45

I don't know if I can, you can but it's like I don't, I don't want any restrictions, right, Like I don't want to like feel like I'm tiptoeing and have to be, because that was what I did my entire corporate career. So, to me, like I want to build a business, that is exciting that I want to go to that. When I have a meeting with one of my clients, I'm pumped for that day right, because it's like talking to an old friend, an old friend that I get to advise on, you know, certain things on their, in their money, life, but an old friend on the last right. So, like, to me, that's that has been kind of grounded in what I'm trying to build. And it's the life that I want to live, not the life that was told that we should all live when we were, you know, getting our undergrad degrees and are, you know, working that entry level job for next. Enough, you know. So just breaking the mold.

Speaker 2: 18:25

And that's that comes down to what I I name my firm challenge. Everything financial. It's because challenging everything in life for me in most cases has been huge, challenging the status quo, massive. Like there's so many people that are just, and I get it, we're all busy. I have four kids under the age of six. We're all busy and I'm susceptible just like anybody else. So to see if my my own firm name is challenge everything. It's a good reminder for me on a daily or every other day basis when I see that, hey, like, am I thinking outside the box or am I thinking like everybody else? And I, and that's. It's a disservice If I continue to fall into the hamster wheel trap and just do what everybody else has done because it's the easier thing.

Speaker 2: 19:08

It is easy, it's, it's super easy to stay on your own path. There are so many times Hillary, the, the, the amount of times is on, I don't. I don't know, I haven't counted, nor will I ever count, but it's an unreal number in the last year that I have wanted to give up and just tell my wife hey, I think I'm just going to go back to corporate sales, cause it's, it was so much easier. This, it's. It has been tremendously hard.

Speaker 2: 19:34

What you see on social media may look like I have it all figured out and I've got every cause. That's social media right, but I, it is a struggle and I think people, um, and I try to bring that out occasionally I try to show people look, I'm, I'm just like everybody else. I, um, I struggle with plenty. There's. There's stuff that I hate doing, there's stuff that I suck at doing. Um, and and social media just shows the guy in the Ferrari, that's, that's, you know, got everything, and it's like that's not, that's not real. Um, and that's another thing that like linked into me is I want my, I want my genuine voice to come out. Um, because there's not enough of it in my opinion. Uh, on any social media platform, but LinkedIn, um it also to be the case, I think.

Speaker 1: 20:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:22

Again, I'm going to figure it out because I feel like I'm just talking.

Speaker 1: 20:25

Oh, this is so good.

Speaker 1: 20:26

I so appreciate that you've brought that up, and I will say that you are one of the few on there that I feel like does talk about this stuff, and I think that's why so many people resonate with your posts and comment on them and interact with you constantly.

Speaker 1: 20:41

You, dave Juan, is another who I think you know does a really good job of like showing up in a really engaging way but also showing up in a really real way, and so, yeah, I just want to affirm to you that that is absolutely coming through and I I so appreciate you kind of being candid and sharing, like, the challenges of it, because being an entrepreneur is challenging, and I know when I, you know, four years ago, when I decided to start my business, all of a sudden you have to wear all the hats right, and so I know that that's a challenge for a lot of solo financial advisors as well.

Speaker 1: 21:15

So I'm glad that you brought up the name of your firm, because that's actually something I was planning on asking you about challenge everything financial, kind of what the meaning behind that was. I would love to hear more about the name and the meaning behind challenge everything financial, and was that a name that came to you kind of instantly, or was it something that you know was that you kind of agonized over for a while? Tell me more about that and then. And then I'll ask another question about kind of your marketing efforts.

Speaker 2: 21:44

My wife choosing a baby name was probably similar to how I chose a firm. Okay, my wife. Every time we got pregnant, or before we got pregnant, even my wife would randomly text me throughout the day baby names.

Speaker 2: 21:56

And it was like an ungodly amount sometimes and that's how I was. Anytime I thought of something. I'll tell you what I, if this firm fails, I'm just I have like 40 other really solid names that I could probably do. So I mean, I've found some really good names, but this one I would. You know, I I don't know why I've done this my for the last several years. Anytime, like my LinkedIn post, I text myself. There's probably a better way to do it, but whatever I text myself and I have an idea.

Speaker 2: 22:24

And back in 2022, when I knew I wanted to get a firm up and running, anytime I had an idea, I would text myself and challenge everything financial. Just, you know it's a mouthful, it's not the greatest name by any means, but again, it was like the meaning behind it and there's kind of a two fold meaning to me, and one of them is you know, I worked with a financial advisor roughly a decade ago and learned he did some shady stuff and stuff that I just really turned me off. But also one of the big pinnacle, you know, reasons why I'm an advisor now, which is that I know that there was a better way to do it and a more wholesome way to do it, maybe. And so challenge everything financial is kind of a two fold meaning to me it's for the folks who are on that hamster wheel that just go with the, the, the advisor that works for the firm that they see on on, you know, on TV all the time. Challenge everything financial like. Challenge even the financial people that like, just because they've got credentials, just because they work at a place that you feel comfortable, because you know the name, or because your parents use them I'm not saying they're all bad, but challenge it Like, think for yourself. That's the problem is, and I again I fall victim to this and other areas of my life where I'm taking it at face value and I'm sure other people could scream at me saying like you need to, you know, use this type of you know service, not this type. So but that's the career I'm in, I'm, I'm after keeping at least in the financial planning industry, keeping it to where people are, are getting the value that they're paying for.

Speaker 2: 24:03

So I mean, yes, it's on the financial side, but also just it's more of a mentality of life and challenging the status quo, challenging really anything that I've been taught, because I think we've all, we're humans and we're all pretty pretty alike and are upbringings a lot. In a lot of cases especially the folks that you find on LinkedIn we're, all you know, fairly similar. Sure, there's plenty of variants, but for the most part we've all been kind of told how it is, and I think you do that long enough. You kind of fall into that trap of like not thinking for yourself because everything's kind of thought for you, you know. So it's, it's just. I just feel like it's a good reminder for me and clients or anybody that stumbles across my content. I do try to break the mold in that fashion too. So I mean it. Yeah, it's a. It's a kind of a multi. However you want to describe it, it's, it means multiple things. Well, I love it.

Speaker 1: 24:54

I mean, I think it probably really resonates with your target audience too, who are probably really used to challenging themselves, and so I love that the word challenge is in your firm name. So another thing that that just reminded me that I wanted to ask you. So you text yourself when you have ideas for LinkedIn. I did want to ask you, you know, as a father of four and a solo financial advisor who's very busy, how do you make time to write your incredible posts on LinkedIn? I mean, your posts are not brief there. A lot of them are pretty long, and I know that's a struggle for me sometimes it's like finding the time to actually sit down and like spend time on a LinkedIn post. So I would love to know, kind of like, what your writing process is, if you're willing to share.

Speaker 2: 25:40

Man, that is it's. I tried the scheduled post, I tried putting the calendar together and and, and, okay, here's, this post is going to be this theme today and this is going to, and it just didn't feel right, yeah, and so I text myself. I have probably, on average, at least two or three ideas per day, so I'm never going to run out of. Like my wife's like, are you going to like, are you worried that you're going to run out of content? I just started cracking up. I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, no, like I could probably three X the amount of content I create and I'd still. I feel like creating only generates even more. You know like it. I feel like I get more ideas just blabbing, you know, just word homiting, if you will like, with my first draft of every post. So I don't do again. It's, it's challenged the gurus. I don't. I don't do like the, what you probably think I do. I, Every morning, I wake up without an alarm.

Speaker 2: 26:46

I wake up. As long as it's after 4 am, I'm okay. Sometimes it's 4 15. Sometimes it's 5 30, sometimes it's 6 45. It's usually not past 6 45, though, because one of my kids is inevitably up. So I really Work wake up before the kiddos, grab coffee, sit down, pull out my phone, look at some of the the texts that I have for myself, and I pick the one that I'm feeling that day. As weird as that sound, there's no Exactly. I mean, sometimes I think of posts that I'm like, oh, I've got one up to the Super Bowl, that I'm it's kind of in line. I mean, I kind of already shared some photos, but I'm going to re-up it because I think it's, it's timely. So I mean, there's a few times I think about posts that, okay, here, in like a week or two, I'll put that out, but it's, and I think that helps though, because you know it's, I do try to be genuine.

Speaker 2: 27:42

So I'm, yeah, sure, I have ideas at any time, any moment, but I do look at ones and you know, maybe, maybe I saw something horrific on the news and I'm in a crappy mood, and and so I'm gonna, I'm gonna write in a crap, not a crappy way, but just I'm gonna. I'm gonna be a little bit more emotional about it. Or maybe I'm a little pissed off about something that remind something I saw, reminding me that you know, whatever today's posts about, you know the guy that said don't, don't start the youtube channel, like that still fires me up, and I I think I try to help to show that in my writing. They're like, because it still fires me up, like it's not fake. I'm not trying to Um, have fake emotion here. It's what you see is what you get.

Speaker 2: 28:23

That I think one of the hardest things I've had to deal with it, ironically, is I had some people call me fake a couple months ago and it hurt so bad like I, it's crazy, right like this. People I don't know, and they and they were like this is so fake, like you're, you know this is BS and I and and it yes, I don't know what it was, but I could not get over it and I think it was because, to my core, I want to be genuine. I truly like. I feel like I do a good job of showing the shitty side of life, and it's not just toxic positivity, because life, it's life, life. Life is not always sunshine and rainbows, and if you don't believe me, then you take my kids for a week and you find out. So I mean no, but for real, though, it's life, life is sometimes really hard and it sucks and and so I don't know, I guess I I feel like I I show that more than a lot of people, because I do want the genuine side of that. And you know that's life and that's your finances and that's it's not a linear. It doesn't go like that. Your investments don't go like that, neither is life.

Speaker 2: 29:39

And so when somebody Multiple people, called it, called me out about you know being fake and and and it just it hurt really bad and it, um, I don't know, I wish I could say like I just blew it off, but uh, I didn't. I just it like ate away at me and I still like I'll probably forever remember one individual's name and it just Like it sucks. I don't hold a grudge, I'm not like Mad at the individual, I just I would love to like meet them and be like look, I, I'm sorry that I came off that way. I that's not like. I promise you like what you see is what you get. I'm not.

Speaker 2: 30:15

Yes, do I have some hooks that will get you interested? Sure, I've gotten better at my hooks, but just because my hooks are good does not mean the story is fake, right or how I felt was fake. I'm still learning, I still make mistakes. I still get mad when I know I'm human. I know I will always have plenty of flaws. So that's a flaw I wish I didn't have. I wish I could have just ignored it and moved on.

Speaker 1: 30:54

Yeah, well, I mean it's hard when you get the vitriol back at you, especially when you are someone like you who is pouring so much of yourself into your content. I mean it's really hard not to take that personally. And one thing that I do like about LinkedIn is I feel like there's less vitriol on LinkedIn than you might get on somewhere like Facebook or Twitter, but at the same time, I've heard stories from you I've heard stories from Dave Juan about just haters who just get into the comments and really want to attack you to your core. So, yeah, I think that's one of the most challenging parts of marketing, too, is it puts you in this really vulnerable space as well, and I think that's something that we probably don't talk about as much either is like, what are the emotional barriers to marketing yourself and to putting yourself out there on places like LinkedIn? And I actually this is another question I wanted to ask you are you, do you only market on LinkedIn, or do you market anywhere else? Is LinkedIn like kind of enough for you?

Speaker 2: 32:01

Yeah, for before I forget, to Dave's awesome. He's one of my favorite guys I've met on LinkedIn. We text just about every week. Great guy like.

Speaker 2: 32:11

I've learned so much from him, and he keeps the behavioral side of money front and center, as it should be, in my opinion. I'm very, very happy I got to know him and I'm glad that you have had a chance to talk with him. He's a solid, solid dude. I think he does great work and I think there needs to be more of that, and I have even tried to cater some of that content to the behavioral side, not to steal it from him or take the spotlight, but I just think more of a light needs to be shined on like money's behavioral, like it's not.

Speaker 2: 32:39

It's I can put together a perfect financial plan. It's not gonna happen. But let's just say I put together a perfect financial plan that actually works exactly the way the numbers say. It's gonna work, it's which is impossible because we can't predict investment returns, but let's just say it happened. It doesn't matter. It's your parents get sick, your, your, your, your, your kids get you lose a job, like there are things. The emotional side of money is so powerful and I so. Anyway, I don't mean to get off topic, but I love what James Dave is about and I love that guy. So yeah, sorry, what was your? What was the question that you?

Speaker 1: 33:15

had. I just want to say to I also just love what Dave is doing. I have I have a conversation I had with him that's going to be on the podcast to that. I just love everything he's doing. So, yeah, my question was do you solely market on LinkedIn or do you have any other avenues where your marketing challenge everything?

Speaker 2: 33:36

Yeah, I set up you know the what are they called handles on every platform, like Twitter, instagram, you know whatever. I tried Twitter for like a week and I hated it. I put one post on Instagram. You know I've done Instagram before when I had a money blog and I did a pretty good job of staying consistent with it. But and then and then Facebook is the only other one that I've, in the last year have I don't even want to say consistently, but just more than like five times posted things. But it's literally I copy and paste almost word for word what's on LinkedIn, just throw it on Facebook.

Speaker 2: 34:20

Kind of by design, I wanted to stay on LinkedIn and get really good there, because I think I read a lot about like you can spread yourself to thin and it gets so overwhelming. I mean there are so many places that you can market your stuff I mean Pinterest, you know, like your neighborhood, you know your neighborhood library, like there's so many things. And so to me I was like LinkedIn makes the most sense for me, because sales professionals are who I want to work with and they're almost all going to be on LinkedIn. So to me it made sense to do LinkedIn At some point. To be honest, the YouTube would be. I love making videos and I need to do more of them, for sure, and I think YouTube would be really I would. I think I would have a lot of fun with it. But I'm just, I'm trying to focus on LinkedIn first, get really good at that, and then, and then kind of and also get a few more clients on board, and then tip my tip, toe my way into something else but similar to LinkedIn, like I want to.

Speaker 2: 35:26

When I do it, I want to say like, ok, I'm going to go kind of all in or whatever, because Twitter, you know, that was the one I tried the hardest at the beginning. And when I say try my hardest, I don't even know how many tweets I have 10 or 15 maybe. I mean, I didn't try that hard at all, but I was like I hate this, but it was, I didn't do a mindset. I didn't do a mindset shift of OK, I'm going to make Twitter work, because I'm just going to stay consistent. I did that with LinkedIn and I think the results show for themselves. I have, like what? Maybe two followers on Twitter. I have no idea, I haven't checked the thing for months. But yeah, I'm going to stick with LinkedIn for a while I don't know how long, so yeah.

Speaker 1: 36:05

That's my favorite approach ever is to find one thing that you're consistent at, that you can go all in on, rather than trying to spread yourself too thin, because that never works right. Even if you're just copy pasting from LinkedIn to another platform, which, honestly, maybe not the worst thing ever but I also think if it's working really well on one platform, keep putting your all into one platform and then you know if you want to build something totally different on top of that, like a YouTube channel or whatever it might be next. I love that approach. Well, ok, so this has been such a great conversation I would love to leave off. If you could go back to your former self or think about another advisor who is maybe at the beginning stages of beginning to market their business and get serious about putting all of their marketing energy into one platform. What's one thing you would tell them to help them get started?

Speaker 1: 37:02

Just one thing it can be multiple things.

Speaker 2: 37:06

I have a hard time doing just one thing top three or five.

Speaker 2: 37:12

I think I would probably probably go back to what I said earlier, which is just one word would be commit. I think you know the. I think back the amount of times I've wanted to quit, the amount of times that, especially at the beginning, when posts were going nowhere, commit, and that's probably you know. If you go to go to expand on that, commit to the process and commit to learning. Don't commit to whatever the result is, because the results going to be shitty for a few months, maybe longer. But if you learn and adapt your stuff, you know you, if you're, if you can hopefully be your genuine self, that's. I would love if more advisors could show like. There are advisors that do fantastic work but nobody knows about them from one advisor to the next, because they're they just they're too timid, and so I mean to start is the hardest part by far. So you can commit. I don't know what that looks like. You know in a, in a, the smart goal setting. You know like the specific, measurable, whatever. But it's like you know, hey, six months, monday through Friday, writing, you know whatever that post looks like, and and hit and post and it's going to be garbage. Who cares? It's going to get no reactions, who cares? Right, you're like, as long as you commit to it and you learn, you can't just do the same thing For six months and be like, ok, I hit my six month mark. It's like that magically going to get better, magically you do end up.

Speaker 2: 38:43

I've seen one of the first people I followed Posted about not not financial related, it was just an individual and she posted about stuff that I was like this is not that entertaining. Or, and I remember earlier this past year, I'd follow her for several years but I hadn't seen her post. Maybe I unfollow her, I don't remember, because it wasn't resonating. But then I look I'm like she's got a massive following and I'm like that was probably just mainly because she was consistent. So consistency is certainly key, but I do think you should probably learn and kind of adapt. And that's another thing.

Speaker 2: 39:19

Like big blocks of text, like I learned early on, a lot of people aren't gonna read those big blocks of text, which makes sense. Think about it the way you like to consume content. I like to see pictures and video every now and then. I don't like to read big blocks of text. We're all on our phones scrolling rate, so get a night catcher, shorten the stuff up.

Speaker 2: 39:42

I mean I don't have a formal process, but I'll kind of word vomit on my first draft of my post and then two or three times read through it, cut edit format. That's so incredibly important, especially on LinkedIn. It's probably on every platform. But it's not not a formal process by any means, but every single post I make I just put all my thoughts on the paper, digital paper, and I think I probably should have answered this earlier when you asked the actual question. So but I mean you do need to put some time in like the formatting and the editing. It's something that most people probably don't take seriously enough when they first start. But also don't let that like don't let perfect be the enemy of good type of thing. I think sometimes people are so worried about it being perfect that they just don't do it at all. So that's why I say, even at the beginning, just build the habit, hit post even with the crap, and then slowly you can start editing little bit of things, bit by bit.

Speaker 1: 40:43

So yeah, I mean, I said this was gonna be my last question. Of course I have like follow up thoughts now Love that so much. I don't know if you know this, but I'm a former college writing instructor and so I just everything that you just said. I'm like yes, that is exactly how I taught. Writing is write the shitty first draft right and then refine it and hone it. You can't create a good piece of writing unless you allow yourself that shitty first draft first right. And I've actually found that that saves me a lot of time as a writer, because I don't spend as much time agonizing over getting it right as I'm trying to write it. It's kind of like throwing a lump of clay on a table and then you can mold the clay right, rather than just trying to create something perfect the very first time. So I'm so glad that that's working.

Speaker 2: 41:29

I didn't know that you were. I didn't know that background about you and that's I mean. Yeah, I have no formal, you know process of writing, but I will say I've always enjoyed writing as early you don't have to tell me your age I'm 37 and in middle school, zanga X-A-N-G-A I don't know if you're familiar with that at all, but there was a platform called Zanga and it was basically like a blog and a bunch of like. My classmates had one and I made a fake one and just like made it sarcastic. And in college I wrote a column called the weekly shitter and I posted it in the bathroom. So when you're doing your business, you have something to read. And I had a money blog Like I didn't even think about this until I started, you know, this past year, like writing on LinkedIn.

Speaker 2: 42:19

I was like you know, I've always enjoyed writing. And then I was like how they think about it? It's not formal by any means, it's not like I didn't go to school for it, but I have my entire life. If I think back, it's like I wrote love. I still write love letters. That's my thing, like I'm a words of affirmations, my love language. I had a seventh grade teacher catch one of my love letters and he told me he wishes that he could write that well for the ones that he writes as wife. So like it's funny, like I've enjoyed writing in a lot of different areas, especially like the creative, like the humorous side. So I think that's also why I've enjoyed the LinkedIn posts and the marketing as much as I have, because I always have I just I never really like formally thought about it before.

Speaker 1: 43:02

So I mean you can see and that's why I was wanting to ask you about your writing process and like kind of how you commit to it, because you can see it come through in your posts how much you enjoyed writing that post, and that's not something that you can like manufacture. I don't think like that cast to come from a genuine enjoyment of what you're doing, and so, yeah, it just sounds like I mean, linkedin is the place for you and we're, so we're also lucky to get to read your hilarious, sarcastic LinkedIn posts.

Speaker 2: 43:28

So Lucky, you're on lucky.

Speaker 1: 43:31

Well, michael, this has been an absolutely delightful conversation. Thank you so much for sharing so much about your process and your journey with me and the listeners. Obviously, people can find you on LinkedIn. Where else can they find you?

Speaker 2: 43:48

You know, linkedin is definitely the best place Challenge everything. Financialcom is good. I try to shorten it up for people Chev. It looks to C-H-E-V. Financialcom. If for any lazy people out there that don't want to type in the whole thing, I get it. I bought a domain name just for you, so but yeah, linkedin is definitely the place that you'll find me most often.

Speaker 1: 44:11

All right, awesome. We'll link to your profile and your website in the show notes and, michael, thank you again. So much for this conversation.

Speaker 2: 44:20

Thank you very much for having me. I've been excited for a while to join in, so it's been a lot of fun.

Speaker 1: 44:32

Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of the Finance Marketing Podcast. If you're eager to market your business in a way that feels good and actually gets results, sign up for the Finance Marketing Podcast newsletter in the show notes so you never miss another episode. If you liked what you heard today, please be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite listening app and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. We'll see you back here next Friday. </i><p.

Speaker 2: 45:00

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Speaker 1: 45:08

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