Running postpartum

Helllooooo Cheeky friends!

This week we will once again be talking to pelvic floor physiotherapist (and founder of Physio for Women) Rachel Fitt about the journey back to running after giving birth. If you haven’t already, we advise going back to last weeks ep and listening to that first to give you a better understanding of some of the themes we chat about today.

We then bring you The Run Down for the second time ever and discuss the six amazing women who are all vying for a spot on the Australian Olympic marathon team.

During the episode, we mention the store She Science to help assist with sports bra fittings for breastfeeding and beyond.

We finish off debating the quagmire which is 'who will be selected to represent aus in the Marathon at the olympics'. We don't envy the selectors.

If you want to support the show, please follow us wherever you listen to your podcasts or on social media: Instagram, Tiktok, Cheeky Run Club Strava community, plus Phoebe's Strava and Anna's Strava.

Music produced by Hugh Raper
Logo design by Michael Cotellessa 

Thank you for listening!

Transcript

Track4-Mic 4: 0:00

every day we live, work and run on Aboriginal

anna: 0:04

work and run on Aboriginal

Track4-Mic 4: 0:06

land. Welcome to episode 14 of Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast and community for your everyday amateur runner. Hello, Anna.

anna: 0:24

Hello Phoebe, croaky voice

Track4-Mic 4: 0:26

And hello, listeners.

anna: 0:30

Today, we are chatting about getting back to running after giving birth and what the road may look like. And for the second time ever, we will deep dive into the rundown. This week, we'll be chatting about the different players vying for a spot on the Australian female marathon team. But first, let's kick it off. Give me your best run of the week.

Track4-Mic 4: 0:49

of the week. Okay, so I've been in Sydney this

anna: 0:52

Yeah, I miss you.

Track4-Mic 4: 0:53

Yeah, I know. I haven't seen you all week.

anna: 0:54

it's weird.

Track4-Mic 4: 0:55

my best run was my Thursday morning session with, our good friend Estelle.

anna: 1:02

Estelle. Yeah.

Track4-Mic 4: 1:02

So, it was a different kind of best run of of the week, because it was actually an incredibly challenging run, but it was one of those runs that I think really embodies everything that like running can be. I had, we had to kind of, you know, get up quite early cause we were doing it before work. and the session was brutal, it was really hard. I'd been having a really busy week because I was in Sydney for work and there were really long days and late nights and I was just feeling like,

anna: 1:33

really

Track4-Mic 4: 1:34

um, and it was one of those runs that I realised pretty early on, like, it's just gonna be really hard.

anna: 1:40

gonna be

Track4-Mic 4: 1:41

But

anna: 1:41

hot.

Track4-Mic 4: 1:42

I had to kind of remind myself, like, sometimes running's like that, and this is a chance to, like, Proved myself that I can push through, you know, I didn't feel niggly. I didn't feel injured. I just felt tired and lacking energy and I was like, this is a you know, a chance to like mentally push myself and Try and do some positive self talk like distract myself talking to Esty Focus on like it was the most beautiful morning it was raining and then the Sun came out and then there were these rainbows and

anna: 2:12

I saw a photo on your Strava of the rainbows. It looks so

Track4-Mic 4: 2:15

Possibly the best photo I've ever taken. I was so happy with it. Yeah, just the combination of really like pushing yourself and proving to yourself you can do something. Getting to catch up with Estie and have like, you know, an hour and a half, of just like quality time to chat through things, and she's, she was, she's so fit right now. So I was just like trying to hang on to her back.

anna: 2:35

Yeah, I see what you mean when you say it embodies sort of everything about running. It's like it's hard work, but it's rewarding There's that connection with friends You're out somewhere that you obviously don't live in Sydney. So like you're out sort of exploring. It sounds

Track4-Mic 4: 2:53

And I think because I, so that night, I had this, the big event that I was up in Sydney for, which was our, like, demo day where all our startups present. It's a massive event, like a thousand people. I'm normally really nervous for it just because, like, you really want it to go well. and doing that. At the start of the day, I was already like really proud of myself and I was kind of like, you know what, it's gonna, it's gonna be a good day. It just helped like set up the day, I think, for myself even though I was pretty tired by the end of

anna: 3:21

Even though I was pretty tired by the end of the day.

Track4-Mic 4: 3:25

What about you?

anna: 3:26

My best run was last weekend, did the Ballarat half marathon, which was super fun. the race itself was really hard. And, but the reason why I think it was the best run of the week was the That it was such a cool event, like it was the first time Ballarat have held this sort of running, uh, this running festival and it was great weather. It was so well organized. It was so easy to like, go and pick up your bibs. There were like heaps of bathrooms. So it just felt relaxed, like from the start. but, and like the thing that was the best was that. The cheers, like on the side of the road, I feel like quite often in the sort of the races that we do, you know, you might get a cheer here and there, but I think because the half marathon and the marathon started the first time, there were just so many people around and everyone was just so encouraging. There were even a few cheeky cheers, like there was, yeah, like a few times and it just made me, I was so tired, but like genuinely made me smile. It was so fun. And everyone was just, it was just very much like a community feel like everyone was pumping each other up. One of my old friends, Joel came in at the 18 K mark and was like, Oh, do you want me to run with you? And I was like, yes, please. Please. That was really nice. Just good vibes all around.

Track4-Mic 4: 4:43

And how did you go? Do you want to talk us through how the race itself

anna: 4:46

Yeah. So the race, it was good. It was a chilly morning. I, I didn't feel amazing the whole run. I don't know. I feel like sometimes when you run in a race, you like start and you're like, Oh, I feel good. Or other times you're like, Oh, I don't feel good. And then you build into it. But there wasn't really any part of the run that I felt amazing. Um, but there also wasn't really a part. I mean, actually, yes, there was, I reckon it about 14 Ks. I was like, I think I'm done.

Track4-Mic 4: 5:14

my

anna: 5:14

I was just like, this is pretty hard. I went out a little bit too fast just because, I didn't want to look at my watch just cause I wanted to feel how it was going. But then my watch beeped at five K's and it was too, I was, I just wasn't facing myself right. It was a bit too fast for me. Yeah. And then I was like, Oh my gosh, what am I done? Am I going to pay for this later on? So then I slowed down a bit. Um, and ended up running by myself, but I surprisingly was actually enjoying running by myself I just liked it. being quite peaceful and in my own head. So I loved it. We'll definitely be back.

Track4-Mic 4: 5:49

last week you said your goal was to get a PB. you

anna: 5:53

Yes. Um, I didn't quite get a PB unfortunately. Yeah, I was I think 10 seconds off. So I think, as I said to you at the start of the week, I was originally like pretty disappointed'cause I feel like I have been probably running better. and more consistently than I have been before. But I think as the week's gone on, I think I've had the time to reflect and be like, Oh, you know what? This will, this will make it sweeter when you do get a PB. And I also think that, like running's just like such a good reflection on life, how you're not just like always going to achieve what you set out to achieve. Um, so although initially I was disappointed,

Track4-Mic 4: 6:34

uh,

anna: 6:34

The parts that I actually love about running the most is the mundane days of running with friends and doing the training. Yeah, I think like the build up to it, I've loved more than I ever have before. And so like, I think any day I'd, I'd take that

Track4-Mic 4: 6:51

Yeah, that's a really nice reflection because yeah, I remember at the start of the week you were a little bit disappointed and I was actually quite not surprised when you said it was your best run but I wasn't sure but that that's really nice to hear how like on reflection you've been able to kind of reframe it

anna: 7:05

Yeah.

Track4-Mic 4: 7:05

and get that perspective of like the race is just one point

anna: 7:09

of the whole thing. And like the last, few months, training for it, I've never enjoyed running more. So

Track4-Mic 4: 7:15

Yeah, that's

anna: 7:15

I may not add, I'll take that. That's a win. That's a, yeah. Um, what is your, what's your worst run of the week?

Track4-Mic 4: 7:23

My worst run was a, a run that I absolutely love, but that was just, um, very demoralizing which was a run that I did on Tuesday morning. I ran with, um, run Crew, which is, I get coached by run crew in Sydney so on the one hand it was so nice to go back, see Gary, my coach, see all the familiar faces, um, be back in Centennial Park, which I love. Yeah. But on the other hand, I was reminded of there's a false sense of fitness you get from running on track and concrete all the

anna: 7:56

It's

Track4-Mic 4: 7:57

like we do

anna: 7:58

thick grass, and a bit

Track4-Mic 4: 8:00

It's like soft, thick grass. Yeah. And a bit of dirt and it's like.

anna: 8:05

rocks, and

Track4-Mic 4: 8:06

of rocks and like it's so different and You just You can feel if you're running on concrete and track you feel really strong because there's nothing to destabilize you So you feel like you get into a real you feel so much stronger And then I couldn't believe how weak I felt running on this thick soft grass How much slower my pace was how much like harder my muscles were working It made me think how good that was for injury prevention, though, because I got injured so much less in Sydney, and I was doing so many of my runs on that

anna: 8:39

of my runs on that

Track4-Mic 4: 8:41

dirt, sandy kind of ground. And I just think all your stabilizing muscles get so strong.

anna: 8:46

muscles get so

Track4-Mic 4: 8:47

What was your worst run?

anna: 8:48

My worst run was also last Sunday. It was the cool down after the half marathon. I'm not very, I sometimes accidentally like neglect cool downs after a big run. Race like that just because I'm tired. But I said to, Dave, my partner and Jenna, my friend that was there and my dad, I would meet them at a cafe, which was like two, two and a bit K's away. Um, they were going to drive there. And I just said, like, I jog there as a cool down. So then it's sort of like gets it done. Oh my gosh, I was so tired. I felt like I'd never run in my life. It was. So hard. My tummy was sore. I think, I don't know if it was just from like pushing quite hard in the race. I've never had it before, but like my tummy kind of like tightened up. It almost got a bit like crampy. Yeah,

Track4-Mic 4: 9:39

it's because when you're, when you're really pushing yourself, your blood flow, like, moves away from your digestive system into your

anna: 9:46

yeah, It was so hard, like I had Taylor Swift blasting in my ears to try to get me through it. And I was just, I was just every step I was like, Oh my gosh, I kept looking at my watch and I'd be going like, it was like another 50 meters since I'd

Track4-Mic 4: 10:02

block. Oh, there's nothing worse.

anna: 10:04

Oh, anyway, it was so hard. Um, but then we went to this really nice cafe in, Ballarat is so nice. I mean, like, granted, it was like the perfect day that like autumn leaves were falling. It was like cool, but clear and sunny, no wind. And like, they're just, the buildings are super old. Like it was just, there's such nice like streetscapes with like huge trees, like a little like blue stone buildings. It was so lovely. Anyways, I had my Smash Davo and. hit the road. But yes, that was my worst run, even though it only lasted for about 15 minutes.

Track4-Mic 4: 10:40

Probably did you good.

anna: 10:41

Probably. I hope so.

Phoebe: 10:45

Okay. Our main topic this week is running postpartum. So after you've had your baby and telepathics for this space, we're once again, joined by Rachel Fitt, the Melbourne based pelvic floor and continence physio, welcome back.

Rachel: 11:01

Thank you so much for having me again!

Phoebe: 11:03

for having

anna: 11:06

right. So, yeah, as Phoebe mentioned today, we're going to go through all things running postpartum and answer some listener questions. So to kick us off,

Phoebe: 11:14

Well, let's talk about recovery from, from birth itself. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel: 11:19

I guess like from a recovery perspective, it does depend on the type of birth that you have had. When we talk about, um, I suppose the two types of birth, there is vaginal deliveries and then caesareans. Um, with a caesarean birth, the caesarean itself doesn't impact your pelvic floor, but it does depend on whether you've labored and tried to push your baby out before. before having a caesarean. So I guess it just depends on the circumstances leading up to that. If you've had an elective caesarean, other than the weight of baby and pregnancy, your pelvic floor is protected. If you've had an emergency caesarean and you have tried to push your baby out, it just depends on how long you were pushing for and was there any intervention to try and get your baby out vaginally before having the caesarean as to whether your pelvic floor was impacted or not. With the vaginal birth and non complicated vaginal delivery where you've pushed for less than 90 minutes, um, your baby is less than four kilos. You haven't had any, um, severe pelvic floor injury, like a third or fourth degree tear, no episiotomy or second degree tear, um, and no instrumental help to get baby out. That's what we would call a non complicated vaginal delivery.

Phoebe: 12:28

how common is that?

anna: 12:30

I was

Phoebe: 12:30

gonna say, that's like,

Rachel: 12:31

one in

anna: 12:32

that's like one in a

Rachel: 12:33

Yeah,

Phoebe: 12:34

more

Rachel: 12:35

than you think. Having some form with a first vaginal delivery, having either a second degree tear or a episiotomy is almost 70 percent of women that are having vaginal births will have one of those things. It's like a surgical incision they make to the side of the perineal body to avoid tearing occurring down towards the anus. Um, that makes up 70 percent of first births with, um, vaginal delivery. So the statistics are kind of like, Suggestive that you will have some muscle injury occur, but there, you know, are people that don't have significant muscle injury occur and have non complicated vaginal deliveries. So I think the statistic is maybe around, um, 30 to 40 percent of women are having non instrumental vaginal deliveries for first vaginal birth.

anna: 13:18

and when you say instrumental, do you mean like, does that include the vacuum?

Rachel: 13:23

Yeah. And the forceps, so pretty much assistance to get baby out. Um, so the vacuum is more harmful on your pelvic floor compared to a non instrumental vaginal birth. And then the forceps is more harmful than the vacuum on your pelvic floor as well.

Phoebe: 13:38

kind of trauma down

Rachel: 13:40

Yeah, more invasive, more trauma, higher risk of having pelvic floor dysfunction postpartum. Um, so yeah, it really depends on like what happens with your birth as to like probably how you're going to recover and how your pelvic floor is impacted. We do know that people have pushed for longer than 90 minutes and have had instrumental use, will have a slower recovery with their pelvic floor. Your pelvic floor is more likely to spontaneously recover and recoil and function well. If you haven't had any complications and you haven't pushed for a long time. And so I guess like, if you're pregnant, this is one motivator to go and see a pelvic floor physio is to try and help decrease those risks of complications with your birth to hopefully allow or improve spontaneous recovery postpartum, because that's then really important with our considerations for returning to exercise.

Phoebe: 14:30

Yeah.

anna: 14:31

Yeah. I was speaking to, one of our friends, Addy, who's a keen runner and has had two babies. And she was saying that, the motivation of, doing the pelvic floor physio and the exercises during your pregnancy, is actually like wanting to be strong post pregnancy rather than just thinking of giving birth as the finish line.

Rachel: 14:53

Absolutely. Yeah. So we know that working on your pelvic floor in pregnancy can improve birth outcomes, but it also decreases your risk of developing incontinence, both in the pregnancy and postpartum. So there are lots of benefits to working on your pelvic floor in pregnancy. And I always think that if you've worked on it with a pelvic floor physio and you know how to use your pelvic floor correctly, if your muscles aren't functioning properly, Functioning well postpartum because you've already got that prior knowledge and awareness of your own pelvic floor It is easier to rehab a muscle that you already know how to use and have done before It is really hard when people come in and they've had complicated births and we're working on the pelvic floor for them for the first Time because often we're having to start from the very beginning with technique and things and it does take them

anna: 15:38

Yeah. Well, cause yeah, I guess I don't have that like baseline feeling so they don't know what to. Yeah. What? Is

Rachel: 15:44

100 percent and their normal before might not have been doing the exercises correctly anyway. Yeah. And so often they're just the, depending on what their current pelvic floor function is like at that point. And if there's been any injury to their pelvic floor, you know, that might significantly delay their ability to be able to return to running or high impact exercise in particular.

anna: 16:03

And what does that look like? Um, how do you help birthing parents recover

Rachel: 16:08

so most of the time people are coming in at various stages postpartum, we generally see people four to six weeks postpartum. And I suppose our role is kind of like, if you've had any other injury to your body, we know that with a non complicated vaginal delivery, the pelvic floor is stretching over 300 percent to allow baby to come through. And that's without complications. You're having just that enormous stretch regardless of, you know, any other intervention. So your muscles aren't going to work. as well as they should after going through that kind of stretch. So, um, we're helping to kind of rebuild that strength again postpartum and identify whether there are any, I suppose, defects to their connective tissue or risks from an anatomy perspective that would make them prone to maybe developing a prolapse or is there a prolapse there and you're not symptomatic of it or do you have X, Y and Z symptoms day to day that we need to get on top of and try and resolve for for you to, you know, go back to whatever your goal is at the end of the day. so very similar to a pregnancy pelvic floor assessment or assessment, any other stage of life, we're looking at muscular function. So Returning to running, we do have some criteria with the pelvic floor that we want people to, I suppose, achieve before they load their pelvic floor with high impact exercise. And one of them is making sure that they have, um, average strength. So we assess their strength in a lying and a standing position. We want their strength to be average level in a standing position. Over a 10 second period. We also want to make sure that their endurance is at least for 60 seconds and they need to be able to turn their pelvic floor on and off quickly with good coordination, at least 15 times as well. Um, and then from an anatomy perspective, we do take some measurements externally from the urethra to the start of the perineal body, which is giving us the vaginal opening length and then of the perineal body itself as well. And the measurements in total need to be less than seven centimeters to safely return to running. Otherwise, we're considering, you know, how else can we support the pelvic organs and their pelvic floor to do high impact exercise safely. So I guess if your muscles aren't working properly, there are some anatomy changes. running is usually delayed, um, quite significantly until we're achieving those things or we're looking, you know, at alternative, um, kind of methods to support the pelvic floor. The current recommendations at the moment are not to run before three months postpartum. It obviously is very unique depending on the person's, um, birth, their exercise history, how much running they've done in the past, how strong they are, what are their symptoms like day to day with their pelvic floor.

anna: 18:37

Yeah. So what are exercises, like what are common exercises that you could start before, uh, you get back into running or, and, uh, are there

Rachel: 18:45

it's usually like a lot of strengthening. So some of the criteria to, you know, tick the box to make sure you're strong enough to return to running is being able to do 20 single leg squats down to a chair height. Um, 20, it is pretty hard. It's hard. Yeah. So I mean, you can test yourself at any point. Right. So, um, yeah. 20 single leg calf raises, 20 single leg bridges where you're laying on your back and lifting your hips up, um, and then 20 side lying hip abduction, which is kind of like a Pilates exercise, lifting your top leg up and down. And so I suppose single leg strength is really important to return to running, um, but also single leg balance. And so often like Postnatal, like most people will know in pregnancy as well. Like your balance is definitely not as good as what it was pre pregnancy. So postnatally, you really need to kind of rebuild your balance and your proprioception to ensure that you can stabilize on one foot well, and if you're not balancing well, you're not going to be able to do the strength exercises that are single leg well as well. So. Those are things that you can be testing yourself really early on postnatally, like, where am I at from like a balance and a strength perspective with those particular exercises? And I guess it kind of just like makes you aware or identifies, oh, I actually have a lot of work that I need to do to rebuild that strength, to be able to tick that box as early as I can to return to running.

Phoebe: 20:03

What are some of the common complications from pregnancy or birth that would then impact that return to run even further?

Rachel: 20:10

it, most of the time it is like, um, either a strength deficit, so they really need to work on some strengthening, which like, we know weight of baby

anna: 20:18

in pregnancy is

Rachel: 20:18

going to cause some weakness, but also just the vaginal birth in general. We know that we're going to have to rehab that pelvic floor. So some people build strength quicker than others. Does depend on how compliant people are with their exercises. There's a lot going on in the postnatal world that impacts someone's ability to do that. Um,

anna: 20:35

women that

Rachel: 20:37

is at the bottom, but no, you've got to put yourself first. Um, and then I guess like, um, prolapse would be the other most common one. So, um, with prolapse, it is about 50 percent of women that have had a vaginal birth will have some degree of prolapse. They're our current statistic. So it is significant. It's quite a significant

Phoebe: 20:55

Is it painful?

Rachel: 20:56

No, not painful. It's just like, I guess if you have a prolapse, it's, and it's symptomatic, can impact all aspects of your life, particularly if you are wanting to do high impact exercise. And I guess this is the concern with people returning to exercise too early postpartum, particularly high impact exercise. If your pelvic floor is not strong enough. There are some anatomy changes that may improve with time, but you need more time to allow that to happen. If you're breastfeeding, you have really a low estrogen often, and that's like a menopausal state. So everything in the area can be weaker and the connective tissue and vaginal tissue can all be thinner because of the low hormone. Um, there are risk factors for pelvic floor dysfunction. So if you go and load your pelvic floor too early, you then actually kind of make yourself more at risk of

anna: 21:44

have, yeah, okay.

Rachel: 21:45

new dysfunction, even if it's not already there. And so I guess when we return people to exercise postpartum, the goal is ultimately to return and to stay returned to that particular exercise, not return and then have to like kind of pull it all out. And so we do try and get people back as early as possible, but we do have to do it in a safe way because We know that healing after a vaginal birth is quite significant in the first three months, um, and after a caesarean birth as well, significant recovery. Um, but it does slow down, but it still occurs till six months and then it slows down even more, but it's still occurring right at 12 months and potentially even longer. So, the recovery is like quite long. If you return too soon, you might impact your body's ability to naturally recover from pregnancy and

anna: 22:31

impact your body's ability to naturally recover from pregnancy and birth. I guess, very similar

Rachel: 22:37

look like, of like, how to get started with running and running first? Returning to running your 10 percent overload might just be like distance and time running versus walking. So you gradually running and loading your body a little bit more each week. And then your pace and like your intensity all comes with, as you've started running, you start to kind of manipulate how quick you're going or the terrain that you're running on, et cetera. You might add some agility stuff into it as well. There are some before running plyometric exercises. and a bit of a stress test that we kind of run through patients to make sure that their bladder and pelvic floor copes with a small plyometric stress test before running as well. Um, but it is like kind of like your couch to 5k is like a good example of how you'd be starting again. And then I guess the other things to consider are often like mums are pretty sleep deprived. Like when you're not getting a lot of sleep, you are at a really high risk of injury and your pelvic floor is going to be prone to injury at this stage. Like kind of stage of life. So you do, there's like a lot more to consider than just like whether your pelvic floor has recovered. Um, and then obviously, like, if you're breastfeeding, you know, making sure that you've got good sports bras to support your breasts when you're running, um, good compression wear around your pelvis, your pelvic floor, your tummy. There's, um, yeah, a whole range of things to consider when it's right to return to running.

Phoebe: 24:16

let's talk about some of those things, because we get heaps of questions about them. I mean, let's start off with sports bras. Like, how does that work while you're breastfeeding?

Rachel: 24:24

Yeah, I think, so for some people, they like can't find the right fit, and they're like, I, they're ready to return to running, they feel ready to return to running, but they can't do it because they can't have good breasts, like it's uncomfortable for them, and that's what holds them back. There is, I was showing a patient yesterday in the clinic,

Phoebe: 24:44

of them.

Rachel: 24:45

place called She

anna: 24:46

we did a sports bra episode last season, um, and we came across SheScience. Cause there, there doesn't seem to be many, like, specific, um, shops that you can go to, to get properly fitted for a sports bra. Yeah, yeah.

Rachel: 25:02

So like somewhere like that is probably like if you're a Melbourne base is a good place to go. Um, because even in pregnancy, like a patient's in the first trimester, that's a barrier for running cause their breasts hurts and they'd feel like they don't have enough support. So they too can go and get fitted for a sports bra because if they do it in pregnancy, it's a good investment. You're probably going to use it postpartum

anna: 25:21

anyway.

Rachel: 25:22

anyway. Like you really need good support or it's going to be just a huge barrier to exercise in general.

anna: 25:28

I know that, um, She Science has a website and also maybe we'll put it in the show notes. I can't remember the name of the, research lab that we spoke about, when we did do our episode on sports bras. but they have a, at home guide for fitting. So it might even be worth putting that in, just so people who aren't in Melbourne don't feel too excluded. Yes.

Rachel: 25:54

good idea.

Phoebe: 25:56

and you mentioned before running with like, um, what did you call it?

Rachel: 26:00

Compression. Yeah.

Phoebe: 26:02

go there?

Rachel: 26:02

So I suppose running with compression around like so often there's like a weakness in the abdomen. A weakness in your abdomen or having abdominal separation doesn't eliminate the ability to be able to do certain exercise. It just means that you probably are doing some rehab for your core in the background as well. But often wearing something tight. Tight around the area. One, you get biofeedback so that your muscles work better, but often makes people feel a lot better as well. Yeah. Um, if people have had a cesarean birth, there can be some scar tissue around the cesarean site as well. Often it's more twisting kind of movements that might exacerbate a bit of a pulling sensation, but the high impact exercise nature, I suppose, can impact like what you're feeling through that area. Compression often just cause like kind of

Phoebe: 26:44

a big

Rachel: 26:44

you a big hug around your pelvis and your tummy feels a lot better. So

anna: 26:47

it kind of feels a lot better. Yeah, a

Rachel: 26:50

tubey grip could be one, or it could just be like, you know, tight leggings

anna: 26:54

tight leggings, or

Rachel: 26:55

shapewear, but not, you know, not super tight, like a corset, just comfortable compression, something to just hold you in, um, as you get back into it. Not everyone will need that. It really just depends on how they're going with that. They're recovering. And I guess we didn't speak about this in the pregnancy episode, but, um, I guess the other thing to consider as well as with high impact exercise and running is like, how much has your weight changed? Because that's like a lot of, that's a lot of different pressure on your joints. If you are at a very different weight level to what you were pre pregnancy, it's just another consideration, I guess, and something that can impact pelvic floor, but in particularly stress incontinence, the heavier you are, the more likely you are to have a symptom like that. And sometimes focusing on doing. exercise to allow you to get back towards your baseline before loading yourself up with too much running can then decrease your risk of having symptoms like that. Yeah.

Phoebe: 27:48

What about, uh, running with PRAMS? Do you have any recommendations around that?

Rachel: 27:52

I think that running with prams, um, depends where you are in your postnatal, I suppose, journey. It's often recommended, don't quote me on this, but I think your baby does need to be above six months old to be running with a pram because of the bouncy nature and the baby's head control. And often you, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you just imagined

anna: 28:10

I would have been like fresh out of the womb. Come on.

Phoebe: 28:13

like, fresh out of the

Rachel: 28:15

So there are a lot of, there's,

Phoebe: 28:16

be

anna: 28:17

like gesturing like I'm riding

Phoebe: 28:18

horse. And

Rachel: 28:19

and then you often need running prams as well that would have like different suspension, um, to make sure baby's not like bouncing around a lot. Yeah. I guess like the average runner might not have those benefits because I suppose like the elite runners, like you're often, your life is like revolved around what, you know, what they're doing. like, PBs, certain events, you have a lot of help to make sure you're fueling yourself right, you're sleeping right, you know, all those one percenters that make huge differences. The average runner is not going to have all that help. They're probably sleep deprived, skipping meals, not eating the best, they're not going to probably have the same outcomes. But yeah, I don't know 100 percent know the research about

anna: 28:58

yeah, so there's not, like, as far as you know, there's not specific, like, biological factors that come into play. Like, maybe it's sort of more that,

Phoebe: 29:05

mum strength.

Rachel: 29:06

Yeah.

anna: 29:06

strength, yeah, or, like, shift in, um, Like, how you view running and how it,

Rachel: 29:14

Maybe, yeah, I mean, I guess I couldn't be certain cause I don't know what the like most recent research is on that. So whether there are like, you know, proper like physiological changes that are carrying into postpartum that would occur for everyone. I don't know. Yeah.

anna: 29:30

like, Yeah, I mean,

Phoebe: 29:31

Jess Stenson.

anna: 29:32

new obsession,

Rachel: 29:33

Maybe we can interview her and like pick her brain about it and what they did with their coaching. Yeah. I was

Phoebe: 29:38

I was like, Anna's going to say the fill your cup thing

anna: 29:40

yeah, no, well, so I'll, I mean, I recommended it on last week's show, the blog post, but she speaks about how, um, like one of the things that she thinks helps her, um, with her running in regards to being a mom is that. her whole life isn't running now. It's sort of like a part of her life. And she feels like that shift in sort of like focus, or I guess having that different perspective on it helps her with her running, which I just find so interesting.

Rachel: 30:15

Which is interesting, like from like a, I guess like a psychological and a mindset perspective. Like if we all think about our running journeys, the more pressure you have on yourself, sometimes you don't perform as well. Or when it is just like, I'm doing this because I love it. And the pressure is maybe removed a little bit. Often that's when you perform at your best. Like, yeah. So yeah, potential. Yeah. I guess maybe it could be unique to the person. I feel like if I started running, I mean, I've been a lot longer off running than maybe, um, some other people, but I feel like my fitness and the mental barriers of pushing myself to get back to

Phoebe: 30:50

give it a go.

Rachel: 30:50

hard. Yeah.

anna: 30:51

know. You might, you should,

Rachel: 30:53

don't know.

anna: 30:55

for Melbourne Marathon. You might be breaking the tape.

Rachel: 30:58

Yeah. You'd

Phoebe: 30:59

You'd just be so grateful.

anna: 31:01

so grateful. how can people book in with you or learn about your practice

Rachel: 31:08

Yep. Absolutely. We have an Instagram account called at physio for women. Um, so you'll find us on there, otherwise you can find us at fit physiotherapy. com and you'll have all the links there to our services, our online bookings, et cetera.

Phoebe: 31:22

Okay, we'll put it, we'll put it all on the show

anna: 31:23

show notes. Yeah. Yeah. so much.

Track4-Mic 4: 31:28

This

anna: 31:28

week's rundown segment, we will be talking about a very hot topic, which is who will be selected to represent Australia for our women's marathon team at the Paris Olympics later this year. And we

Track4-Mic 4: 31:40

so we wanted to have this topic as the rundown now because by the time this episode comes out, the um, selection qualifying period will have closed. So basically. Everyone's run all their races, everyone's done everything they can, and right now it's up to the selectors. Yep. we wanted to break this down because we think it's probably one of the hardest selection decisions of, what do you reckon, all Olympic sporting teams

anna: 32:09

ever? Ever. All the time.

Track4-Mic 4: 32:11

No evidence to back that up. So in a normal Olympic year, we're pretty lucky to have maybe one or two women who make the qualifying time. But this year, the Australian Women's Marathon team has way more depth than we ever have before and there are six women who have all run the qualifying time. It's actually

anna: 32:31

crazy.

Track4-Mic 4: 32:32

it's very cool.

anna: 32:33

We will say whatever team is chosen will be amazing as each athlete is so deserving in their own ways. Um, but

Track4-Mic 4: 32:40

yeah, yeah, yeah. Get on with it. the

anna: 32:44

purpose of this segment, we wanted to play it out and make a bit of a case for each of them to help the selectors. Phoebe, myself, and our Spanish correspondent all the way from Madrid, Eleanor have been divvied up, uh, two of the six athletes each, each of us will give a little spiel on why their athletes, that they are talking about should be picked. And you guys can sit back and pick your

Track4-Mic 4: 33:12

back home can sit back and pick your fighter. Yep, so

anna: 33:26

with us. Are

Track4-Mic 4: 33:30

Hi! Nice to

anna: 33:33

to have you here. Thanks, nice to be here.

Track4-Mic 4: 33:37

you here. Yes, great to have you on the show at last. Which runners are you making a case for today?

anna: 33:43

So, I am making a case for Sinead Diver. and then also Eloise Wellings. Lovely.

Track4-Mic 4: 33:52

and Anna, who will you be making a case for today?

anna: 33:56

I will be making a case for two of the three future Australian representatives,

Track4-Mic 4: 34:02

Oh, here we

anna: 34:04

Whiteman and Jess Stenson, Nii Trengrove. What about you, Pheebs?

Track4-Mic 4: 34:10

I will also be making a case for two of the three future Australian representatives. Jen Gregson and Izzy Batt Doyle. So let's just, just to canvas that a bit, we've got Eleanor will be speaking about Sinead Diver and Elsie Wellings. I will be talking about Jen Gregson and Izzy Batt Doyle. And Anna will be talking about Lisa

anna: 34:31

Waitman and Jess Stenson.

Track4-Mic 4: 34:34

Jen Justins. And so they're the six athletes that you're about to hear about. And should we get Eleanor to kick us off?

anna: 34:40

Yeah,

Track4-Mic 4: 34:41

Make a case.

anna: 34:42

us off with Sinead. Eleanor? Well, so Sinead Diver, she was actually born in Ireland, and Australia has been lucky to inherit her. She was one of the first to, make one of the Olympic qualifying times back in, 2022. And she actually broke the Australian record, so she is by far, surely one of the key, marathon runners that the selectors will be looking to select. Um, she also, I think, in terms of the selection criteria, they also need to prove fitness. So she ran Sydney Marathon in September. Which was quite chilly and also very hot. So you could say similar to Paris. Um, And she's also paced the, Nagoya Marathon recently, to prove her fitness. So I think, as the Australian record holder, so she has the fastest time by a mile, and she also has proven fitness. So I don't know what else the selectors would really want. I feel like she's a shoo in, surely. Yeah, and what, would she need to prove fitness just because she hasn't done a marathon for so long?

Track4-Mic 4: 35:48

Yeah, I think

anna: 35:49

Yeah, I think so. So her qualifying time was back in December 22 at the very start of the selection period. Yeah. So she hasn't run, I think in Sydney she ran about 2. 31, whereas her qualifying time was 2 hours 21. Yeah. Um, so it was a good 10 minutes slower. Are you making a case for or against Sinead?

Track4-Mic 4: 36:07

it.

anna: 36:08

Oh no, I'm, I'm absolutely, I didn't mean to get explosion y. I'm just saying that there were questions about how fit she was, and whether she needed to prove more fitness. But, she's proven it. Alright. And, so, Phoebe, who's your first fighter? Um, we're gonna go

Track4-Mic 4: 36:26

Izzy Bat Doyle.

anna: 36:27

So,

Track4-Mic 4: 36:27

Izzy's from Adelaide. Uh, she is the youngest of the six qualifiers. By quite a few years, I believe. Uh, she's 28 years old. Izzy is traditionally, or still is a track runner. Um, in fact, I think she's probably just as likely to qualify for kind of maybe the 5 or 10k as she is for the marathon. She debuted as her first marathon was in late 2022. At the Melbourne Marathon, and she did that marathon in two hours, 28 minutes and 10 seconds, which remains the fastest ever debut marathon time for an Aussie woman. So this is someone with a lot of potential. and then set a massive PB of 223. 27 in Spain last year, um, but one of the reasons why I think she should be picked is because of her top end speed. There's no one else who's in contention here that's still super competitive over kind of the 5k distance. Whilst, um, you know, maybe it's pretty rare for a marathon to come down to like a sprint finish or a real kickdown at the end. If it does, I think we want someone in there who we know can pick up the pace.

anna: 37:39

Um,

Track4-Mic 4: 37:41

So yeah, Izzy has range, she's got levels, she's a consistently strong racer, um, we know she's healthy because she's racing pretty much non stop, um, also, this is a bit of a hot tip, but her Strava is not on private, you can follow along her training if you want, and we know she can put in massive training blocks. So just to summarise there, this is someone who's only just debuted in the marathon, put in consistently incredibly strong performances, and I think really the best is yet to come for Izzy. So I'd be putting, placing my bets on Izzy Bat Doyle.

anna: 38:15

Interesting. Interesting. Mm-Hmm. Alright. My first fighter, I mean, I've got the easiest job of all of us because So first of all, I'm going to talk about Li Lisa Waitman. She's 42 years old, uh, lives in Melbourne. Um, she is a Commonwealth Games silver medalist. a Commonwealth Games bronze medalist, a two times national champion. She's come in the top eight at major marathon three times. Um, she's been to four Olympic games. If she's selected in this one, she's the 15th person. ever to represent Australia in five Olympic games. So she currently has the third, She is the fastest of the six women, um, and she is, misses consistent, doesn't matter the conditions. In Osaka Marathon, she placed third in 224. It was absolutely freezing. I think it was like five degrees, feels like two degrees raining, um, at the World Athletics Championships, she finished first Australian. That was in Budapest and it was hot, hot, hot, with a lot of people not actually even finishing. She placed 16th. Um, and she also did the Valencia marathon at the end of 2023 in 2 24 18. And, um, if my, if my research serves me correctly, she also had COVID. So she is just a trooper. It doesn't matter. The conditions doesn't matter how she's feeling. She gets the job done. Anyway. So that's Lisa.

Track4-Mic 4: 39:51

So what's her qualifying

anna: 39:53

Her qualifying time is 2 23 15. So she is ranked third out of the six women. Yeah. Um, all right, Eleanor, who's your second fighter? My second fighter is Eloise Wellings. So she has been on the running scene. I think she was initially selected for a spot on the Olympic team when she was the record age of 16. Unfortunately, she was unable to participate in the Olympics because she was injured. She's now in her 40s, she's since represented Australia at multiple Commonwealth Games, multiple Olympics, um, and she's looking to head to Paris So she also got Olympic qualifier at Valencia at the end of last year in a net time of 2 hours 25, 47. And she was on track to, uh, do a two hours 23 marathon, but unfortunately she experienced some, I think she had some like issues with her, sugar level, in the last few kilometers, but still managed to finish. So obviously she's got a lot of determination and grit, um, in the marathon. And I think as, which also kind of, I don't know, it goes against my previous, um, fighter, but in 2022, Eloise Wellings went to the Commonwealth Games and represented Australia in Birmingham. And she actually came fourth on what was also a very hilly course, which unfortunately was fourth in front of my, other fighter, Sinead Diver. But Sinead Diver will still be, as the Australian record holder, I think she's still in hot contention. Were there any other, were there any other fighters in front of the two of those? So there's a lot of um, um, um, Um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um,

Track4-Mic 4: 41:41

a cracking, this is a cracker, this

anna: 41:43

Georgie Tunny All right. Love your work, Eleanor, our Spanish correspondent. Thank you very much. Phoebe, over to you for your second fighter. Okay, cracking, this is a cracker, this one. Jen Gregson.

Track4-Mic 4: 41:59

So, Jen has been, I would say, one of Australia's strongest runners for quite some time. Her earlier career was all in more kind of middle distance on the track. She's a three times Olympic finalist, two times world championship finalist, the Australian record holder in the 3, 000 meter steeplechase. Um, however, this is all in the lead up to the Tokyo Olympics when something happened to Jen that really kind of shifted her trajectory and set her on a different path altogether. So some listeners might remember last Olympics, it's a 3000 meter steeplechase final, Jen's coming off the final water jump with maybe 150 meters to go. And when she landed, she snapped her Achilles. And she had to get, I think, basically carried off in a wheelchair. Um, and since then she's had to get I think two surgeries to essentially reconstruct both of her Achilles. She's had an adorable baby Archer. And she's come back to running in a totally different way. She's hit the roads, and she's given the marathons a go. And I would say she's shown a pretty stunning natural ability for the marathon distance. So her debut was on the Gold Coast last year, where, against all expectations, she came third, and she was the first Australian. In a hugely impressive two hours and twenty eight minutes. She then went from, you know, already a great marathon runner to a historic marathon runner with her next marathon in Valencia, where she ran 2. 23. 03, destroying the Olympic qualifying time. And she became the third fastest Australian woman. In marathon history, um, but those numbers aren't why I think she should get picked for the marathon. So when I was reading off on Jen, I came across a quote that I think really summarizes what she brings to the event and gives her a real competitive advantage. Um, it's actually quite from after the Olympics in 2021. She'd started her recovery journey. She's planning her kind of future in the sport and The interviewer kind of put to her all the challenges she was going to be up against if she wanted to transition to the marathon. And she said, I'd rather end on my terms. It might not work. There could be a lot of complications that get in the way. I don't run the same. I get too old. I'm aware of all those pitfalls. But I'd rather die trying than just say my time's up because I ruptured my Achilles in 2021. To that I say, Jen Gregson, your time is quite clearly not up. And that never say die attitude is exactly what we need in a world class marathon runner.

anna: 44:45

marathon runner.

Track4-Mic 4: 44:45

I rest my case.

anna: 44:48

Order in the courtroom. I don't know whether the um, Olympic selectors were really I don't care about her, um, I guess her quotes. I don't like all of her quotes, to be

Track4-Mic 4: 45:06

Shots fired! Um, well they should.

anna: 45:08

They're not going to be reading those articles. But I

Track4-Mic 4: 45:12

But I think it just embodies the kind of runner that she is.

anna: 45:15

So

Track4-Mic 4: 45:15

clear from

anna: 45:17

second and final fighter,

Track4-Mic 4: 45:19

media.

anna: 45:20

going to stay clear from what she says to the media and

Track4-Mic 4: 45:26

Stick to the cold hard

anna: 45:28

concentrate on the cold hard facts. So Jessica Stenson, she is a Commonwealth Games winner.

Track4-Mic 4: 45:38

She's a

anna: 45:39

two Commonwealth Games bronze medalist and a national champion. She, I mean, you can't put into words how amazing she is. If anyone in this world was a superhero,

Track4-Mic 4: 45:52

cold hard facts. If anyone

anna: 45:54

if anyone in this world was a superhero, it would be Jess Stenson. So she's just given birth to her second child. She's seven months postpartum. as some of you might remember in last week's episode, I actually recommended reading her latest blog article. It's about her experience of running the Olympic qualifier. and a personal best. Seven months postpartum in Korea a couple of weeks ago. Um, she was there with her young baby and she is just one of those people. It doesn't matter what you throw at her, she can deliver the goods. She's proven that she's good on hilly courses, winning the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham. She's proven that she is good, I mean, exceptional really at these big championship events. Out of all of the women vying for selection. She's the only one to have ever, um, won a Commonwealth games. She's also placed ninth at a world championship. So I kind of think of Jess as one of those people that's, when at these big championship events, she just goes boom and her more than anyone, you can guarantee that she will be up and about for the Olympics. And I just think what she has done seven months postpartum, give her another few months. And I reckon she's a force to be reckoned with, not just. against the other Australian women, but on a world stage. Case closed. Am

Track4-Mic 4: 47:23

something. Yep,

anna: 47:25

able to add something else about Sinead Diver? Oh, all right. Yep. Well, speaking of that performance, the case reopened, um, I forgot to mention that Sinead Diver also came 10th at the last Tokyo Olympics, so, she also has shown her ability to perform on the big stage. Yeah, and that was also in the heat, like Paris. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paris is gonna be hot and hilly and exceptionally hard. Yeah. We don't

Track4-Mic 4: 47:53

selectors take those factors into account. Hot, early and

anna: 48:00

is hot, hilly

Track4-Mic 4: 48:01

I

anna: 48:02

think they'd be silly duffers not to. And you also got to remember that there's like different courses that these women have done their fastest races on. Like, for instance, like Jess's a couple of weeks ago, like there was a lot more, elevation.

Track4-Mic 4: 48:20

Okay, for example.

anna: 48:22

just for example.

Track4-Mic 4: 48:23

I think they've got to pick based on potential. Who's on that trajectory up?

anna: 48:28

Yeah. Who is going to be most likely to bring a medal home?

Track4-Mic 4: 48:32

On that trajectory

anna: 48:33

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Probably. Yep.

Track4-Mic 4: 48:37

Izzy and Jen.

anna: 48:40

Um, all right. So that's the end of the rundown. We hope you enjoyed listening. Um, thank you to our Spanish correspondent, Eleanor. No worries, anytime. Anytime, anytime. All right, well. All right, see you ladies. Bye. That's it for episode 14. We hope you enjoyed it as always. Um, please like, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts referred to a friend tag us. If yeah, we want to see where you're listening. So tag us on your Instagram story. Um, we want to see what you're doing and we hope you all have a blessed week. And we can't wait to be in your ear holes next week.

Track4-Mic 4: 49:22

Because I Anna has printed off the race results. Wait, is this of your fighters? Yes.

anna: 49:29

Oh my gosh. Phoebe's written a speech that's fucked up. God.

Track4-Mic 4: 49:34

you, I don't know this stuff, so I had to prepare. Yeah.

anna: 49:36

Yeah. But you are so like well spoken at the best of times anyway. Um.

Track4-Mic 4: 49:40

yeah, everyone, everyone knows