Do you have running burnout?

Happy Monday cheeky pals! 

Today we dive into running burnout, a surprisingly undiscussed dimension of running life. We look at what it is, why it happens, how it impacts you and how to recover from it. We also tell some stories of running burnout to give more colour to the facts, some from our community and some of our own.

Notable runs include a recap of Anna's cross country race and a running session gift from Phoebe (1, 5, 1, 4, 1, 3, 1, 2, 1 min efforts w 1 min float recovery, thank me later).

If you want to support the show, please follow us wherever you listen to your podcasts or on social media: Instagram, Tiktok, Cheeky Run Club Strava community, plus Phoebe's Strava and Anna's Strava.

Music produced by Hugh Raper

Logo design by Michael Cotellessa 

Thank you for listening!

Follow us wherever you get your podcasts + Instagram, TikTok, Substack, Phoebe's Strava + Anna's Strava, and join our Strava community 🩵

 Music produced by Hugh Raper & logo design by Michael Cotellessa. Podcast edited by Kiara Martin.

Transcript

Phoebe 0:00

Cheeky Run Club recognizes that every day we live, work, and run on Aboriginal land. Welcome to episode 16 of Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast and community for your everyday amateur runner. Hello, Anna.

Anna 0:25

Hello, Phoebe.

Phoebe 0:26

And hello, Cheeky listeners.

Anna 0:28

Today, we are chatting everything running burnout. How do you know if you have it? What happens if you do have it? How you should recover from it? And lessons to avoid it in the first place. Then

Phoebe 0:38

Then we are going to jump into our new favorite segment, the rundown, but before we do, we're going to talk through, as always, our notable runs of the week. Anna, kick us off. Tell us the story of your week this

Anna 0:50

your week this week. Do you want my worst run or best run? Worst. Well, my worst run is going to be the non run. Um, because quite timely, really. But after last week's episode, I actually got quite into it. Um, I have been quite sick, so yeah, I hadn't run since Tuesday. Um, today's Saturday, so I did go for a little jog this morning, which was nice. But yeah, definitely my worst run was the not running, but I did choose to listen to our wise

Phoebe 1:21

did you go back and re listen to the podcast?

Anna 1:23

I didn't go back and re listen, but I had a couple of birdies in my ears. One, my own Two,

Phoebe 1:28

like, moral

Anna 1:29

my partner Dave saying, Do as you say,

Phoebe 1:35

Yeah, as you say.

Anna 1:36

you say, listen to your own words and fricking rest my dude.

Phoebe 1:41

that's not quite what

Anna 1:43

No, that's not quite what he said, but it was something along those lines. Anyway. So I ended up, yeah, I had three days off running just cause I wasn't feeling that well, I'm feeling a lot better now, still not a hundred percent, but yeah, I'm hoping that resting has maybe, um, shortened my. Overall

Phoebe 2:00

I reckon you're even today. You're so much

Anna 2:03

Yeah. Well, like on Thursday I could, I was struggling to walk down the street. So even the fact that like, I'm here bouncing around

Phoebe 2:11

here bouncing around. Yep. Yeah,

Anna 2:14

I'm back. Um, what was your worst?

Phoebe 2:16

My worst run was, uh, on my Saturday last week and I, I'm gonna issue an apology. Because I promised someone that this wouldn't be my worst run, um, and Tony Howard, our good friend Ant, Ant went to, sorry Ant, Ant went to a lot of effort to organise a long run with the group, organise a meeting place, organise the route, sent it round, got everyone ready, Invite everyone back to pancakes at her place. Like, so over and above. Yeah, yes. Um, which was extremely kind. And the fact that it is my worst run is no fault of Ant's whatsoever.

Anna 2:55

You're almost saying it too

Phoebe 2:58

Like, I

Anna 2:59

I feel like there's a threshold between saying it's not your fault and then getting on with the story and then it's like, okay, believable. But you going on to say it's not your fault for a couple of minutes kind of makes me

Phoebe 3:10

No.

Anna 3:10

like, was it actually

Phoebe 3:11

Because I'm only saying it because Ant, like, said to me at the end of the run, Is this going to be

Anna 3:17

be the one?

Phoebe 3:18

Like, so sad. No, but it was only because I. Um, I had my biggest, I had a really big training week last week, biggest, training week in a long time. And I think I just felt it by the end of the week. And it was just one of those runs where every kilometer you're checking your watch. My legs felt really heavy and then the worst part was at the end, we somehow must have taken a wrong turn in the route because we ended a few kilometers early and everyone was just like, yeah, we'll finish here. And I still had another 20 minutes to go, which is a bit of a disaster.

Anna 3:50

is a bit of a disaster.

Phoebe 3:52

yeah. So I kind of just added on an extra 20 minutes, trundled around the streets, feeling sorry for

Anna 3:58

streets, feeling sorry for myself. Um, got

Phoebe 4:01

it done solo. Yeah, yeah, I know. So

Anna 4:05

that's

Phoebe 4:06

So yeah, that's why it qualifies for worst run of the

Anna 4:08

Yeah, and also because of Ann.

Phoebe 4:11

No, no, I promise Ed, listen to me. Um, do you have a best run of the week?

Anna 4:18

I do. Best run of the week was, well, it feels like a lifetime ago now, but definitely cross country last week. I know last week's episode, I actually spoke about how I was excited about it. And I feel like all my running wishes came true. It was wholesome. We had a road trip. Um, We actually didn't really sing songs. There was a,

Phoebe 4:38

was a,

Anna 4:39

there was a split in the car. Um, as to what kind of music would be played. There was a divide.

Phoebe 4:47

Wow. Did it come to blows? No,

Anna 4:49

No, I didn't. Um, but Jenna, one of our friends,

Phoebe 4:53

I won't name names. But Jenna. So,

Anna 4:55

No, she bought glen free doughnuts for the trip home, which was so nice. I've never had a gluey free cinnamon doughnut after a race, but I can confirm it's a great post race fuel. So yeah, that was my best run. Um, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Um, um, it was hard. I actually threw the run. I thought, gosh, this absolutely sucks. but then pretty much as soon as the race finished, I was like, I love it. Let's do it

Phoebe 5:27

Let's do it. Um,

Anna 5:29

the Pussycats did well, so we're in Division 1 this year. I think we came fifth. Which, out of 10 teams, so,

Phoebe 5:36

she did okay.

Anna 5:37

Oh, top 50%, it's a pass for sure.

Phoebe 5:39

Scraping.

Anna 5:40

I was scraping through. Um, no, it was so good. I think the reason why it was so hard, which I, I've forgotten. I mean, it's crazy what your mind does, but like I had forgotten how hard cross country is. I think because it's so uneven. Like a road race. At least there's sort of time where you're running and getting to the flow of it. Whereas, because The ground so uneven all the time. You're constantly not quite sure whether

Phoebe 6:05

rolling it.

Anna 6:05

roll an ankle.

Phoebe 6:06

feel like maybe

Anna 6:08

Um, surprisingly, no, I feel like maybe because it was grass, it was a bit softer. I'm not quite sure. but yeah, no, I pulled up so much better from this race than I did a couple of weeks ago doing the half marathon on the road. So yeah. What was your best run?

Phoebe 6:25

best run was my Tuesday track session, which I'm happy that it was my best run because it was my worst run the week before. and the reason it was my best run is because I got given my coach gave me my favorite session, which I just love to do. And so I thought for this notable run segment, I'd give our listeners a gift. Um, and the gift, the gift.

Anna 6:47

of knowledge.

Phoebe 6:49

gift of knowledge, um, of what this session is, because if you ever can't be bothered doing a session, you've been given do this session. You'll love it. Okay, so how does this session work? Well, it's 27 minutes total. That includes some fast running and some easy running. So recommend program this one into your watch. This is how the session goes. Basically it's one minute effort. One minute jog, five minute effort, one minute jog, one minute effort, one minute jog, four minute effort, one minute jog. You basically go one, five, one, four, one, three, one, two, one of efforts. And each of those have a float recovery between them. So technically shouldn't quite be a jog should be like a, just a bit more than a jog, keep moving a little bit.

Anna 7:38

And you're essentially winding down from five minutes. Yeah. With a one minute

Phoebe 7:43

Yeah, yeah. So it's basically going almost, maybe that's a better way to explain it. 1 minute efforts all with one minute efforts and one minute recovery. I'll put, we'll put it in the show notes,

Anna 7:54

the show notes.

Phoebe 7:55

but it's such a fun session because

Anna 7:57

session. I hope everyone has a pen

Phoebe 8:00

everyone's out on their

Anna 8:01

Enough of this one

Phoebe 8:05

One

Anna 8:06

minute, three minute.

Phoebe 8:07

The reason it's a really fun session is because you get the big blocks out of the way. Big blocks of like five minutes, four minutes out of the way and then all of a sudden you're nearly done. And those ones are easier anyway, because you're going a little bit slower. And then the other reason is, it really mentally, keeps you mentally occupied, because you are having to really focus on how you're changing your pace, and what pace you're running

Anna 8:29

you think your coach Gary listened to the episode last week and heard that Tuesday was your least favorite session? So he thought, Oh gosh, I better put in her favorite

Phoebe 8:40

He would have been like, we're doing that one again then. Yeah.

Anna 8:48

Main topic this week is running burnout. We're going to explore the science behind what it is, why it happens, and how to recover from it. We'll also share some stories along the way to add some color to this discussion.

Phoebe 9:00

this discussion. That's right. But we're actually going to start this section off with something a little bit different, which is we're going to tell one of our own host's stories. around running burnout. So when we were prepping for this episode, we were reading about running burnout and we started talking about our own experiences in this space. and Anna actually started telling me a little bit about her story with running burnout. And so in the interest of Never shying away from the dark side of running. We thought we'd make some space to, talk about it here. And I've prepared some questions for you, Anna,

Anna 9:34

Anna.

Phoebe 9:34

share your story. So get excited.

Anna 9:37

away. You're shying away.

Phoebe 9:39

shying away.

Anna 9:40

shy.

Phoebe 9:41

Let her shy. okay. No, so take us back, set the scene. What was your life like at the time when you did get some, some running or training burnout?

Anna 9:49

Take us all the way back to 2013.

Phoebe 9:51

me to put in the sound

Anna 9:52

Yeah.

Phoebe 9:53

so it was 2013

Anna 10:00

so it was 2013 and I was living and training for triathlons up in Queensland with the Queensland, uh, Academy of Sport, triathlon is, uh, a summer sport. So it was just finishing in Australia and we were going over to Europe to chase the European Triathlons season, and base ourselves in France just so then it was easier to fly in and out of from training for races. Well, it would, it must've been nice. Um, but anyway, I, I wasn't feeling so well the few weeks before I actually collapsed in a triathlon.

Phoebe 10:37

triathlon I

Anna 10:38

I think two weeks before I was like set to leave. Went to hospital and just had really low blood pressure.

Phoebe 10:43

blood pressure. Yeah, so I wasn't

Anna 10:45

Yeah. So I wasn't feeling that good when I came out of the swim and then jumped on the bike and didn't really feel like myself, tried to keep going. and then, yeah, a couple of kilometers later I had ridden onto the grass and, yeah,

Phoebe 11:00

Did you ride yourself onto the grass to like, protect yourself? Or did you not really

Anna 11:05

I can't really remember. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Phoebe 11:10

Were you worried at the time? Were you like, what's going on? Or you just thought it was because of the low

Anna 11:14

Yeah, I think it was just because of the low blood pressure and I did have like tests done on my heart and everything was fine and they pretty much just said, you're doing a lot of exercise, like you live in Queensland, so you're obviously, using a lot of liquids, make sure you're hydrating enough and getting enough salt in. So from then. I had hydrolytes all the time. I was like having heaps of salts, and then the two weeks in between then and going overseas, I didn't really train very much and had a little bit of time off, and then flew overseas and started to get back into training. And I really just didn't feel myself. and my coach at the time said You're probably jet lagged, just keep going, it'll pass. And then probably another three weeks later, it kind of got to the stage where I couldn't even finish a lap of the swimming pool. Or I'd go for a ride or a run and ride around the corner from where we're staying and then just pull over and sit down

Phoebe 12:07

sit down

Anna 12:09

Um, just cause I was like so upset and I think I was so upset and confused about what was going on and I'm like frustrated at myself as well. and then, the group that I was with, I was the youngest and they were all like quite, you know,

Phoebe 12:21

elite. So

Anna 12:23

I was always, trying to keep up with them anyway. But then, with this on top of it, I just, I couldn't even start with them. It was just, from the get go, I would be, like, no good.

Phoebe 12:32

when you, when you say like you couldn't, you'd get to a lap, only could do a lap of the pool, like, were you just feeling exhausted?

Anna 12:38

so tired, yeah. And then I'd remember I'd go back to the apartment, and I'd just sleep. So it, it sounds cool being over in France and, but I didn't actually get to experience any of it. cause I was pretty much just in the hotel room the whole time. And so from there, I ended up flying home and instead of flying back to Brisbane where I was living, I flew back to Melbourne and moved back in with mom and dad. Yeah, then sort of stopped exercising completely and I stopped uni for the rest of that year as well. Um, just to like try and get myself better.

Phoebe 13:11

Wow. And so what did that year look like for you when you were

Anna 13:15

Um, A lot of time on the couch. Yeah. I was like pretty sad. I think just cause I had these like triathlon dreams that I felt had been like taken away from me without me just deciding it wasn't like my own decision. Um, and then as well, I think I was like probably just a little bit lost. And also, like, I couldn't train, but I also wasn't, couldn't really be just like a normal 20 year old because I was just tired all the time. Um, so I was sleeping 12 hours a night and not really doing much during the day either. So yeah, it just wasn't a super fun time. I'm

Phoebe 13:52

I so, I find it so hard to, like,

Anna 13:54

like, you're like the

Phoebe 13:55

I know, I know, it's like, you're like the most energetic person. It's so hard to picture you, like, low energy,

Anna 14:02

And yeah, yeah, I feel like I, yeah, shout out to my mom and dad. I feel like I probably wasn't a very nice person to be around. but yeah, it actually, it was really hard. So I barely, I didn't really exercise or do much for. Like the rest of that year. And then I feel like when I did start to feel better, I almost had a bit of resentment towards the sport and like exercise in general. So I almost completely blanked on. Running, triathlon, I just didn't really want to be a part of it that much. But that kind of ebbed and flowed. Like, sometimes I'd be like, oh no, this is what I love doing. And then I'd be like, oh no, I'll stuff this. So it kind of went in like, yeah, it was bizarre.

Phoebe 14:44

And so when,

Anna 14:45

When did

Phoebe 14:46

when did you start to fall back in love with running properly?

Anna 14:49

Um, I think in 2018 when I started running with Hunter Athletics, who we run with on a Tuesday. Where everyone was just there because they loved it. And I started meeting people who were quite like minded. Like people like yourself and, and then, yeah, from there, I feel like I've just fallen like more in love with it than I ever have been before, like so much more so than I was 10, 12 years ago when I was doing it more seriously. I feel like then I was doing it for like performance only. Whereas now as much as I want to improve and go as fast as I can. It's what it brings to my life outside of that. Is why that I love running in the community so much.

Phoebe 15:30

Why did you join Hunter in the first place? Like, what

Anna 15:33

What made me? Um, I remember speaking to a friend of the show, Maddy Begala. Yeah. So we had both seen that, I think on Instagram and we're like, should we go down? Should we not? And then we're both too scared to go down by ourselves. And so we went down together.

Phoebe 15:50

went down

Anna 15:50

Yeah. And then randomly the first day that we met, We both went was also the first day that our really good friend now, Carly went

Phoebe 16:00

No way. What a

Anna 16:02

Yeah. So crazy. So I'm so that's one of those like sliding doors moments. I'm just so grateful that we actually Went, otherwise I just feel like my life could be so

Phoebe 16:11

like my life could be so different. Um, I honestly just think I was doing too much. So

Anna 16:25

Um, I honestly just think I was doing too much. as I said, I was pretty young. I had just turned 20 and I,

Phoebe 16:33

been training at a high level for?

Anna 16:34

um, after I finished school since then, so maybe two years or so,

Phoebe 16:40

yeah. Yeah.

Anna 16:50

bit older. So had been doing this like high volume and high intensity training for quite a lot of years. And I mean, even looking back now, a lot of the like squad members, they actually ended up burning out as well. I think it was almost like the method was I don't know, I'm just making up this saying, but like,

Phoebe 17:10

but,

Anna 17:11

flog 20 horses and like one will end up getting through uninjured, unscathed, and that will be amazing. Yeah. I just think the whole, there was like, not, I just, I did question the science behind what we were doing. and yeah, I just fell.

Phoebe 17:26

Yeah, yeah, you got flogged.

Anna 17:27

Yeah. Yeah. I got, I, I was shafted.

Phoebe 17:32

Um, well I'm so sorry that you had that experience. Um,

Anna 17:35

glad that you've come out the other side of

Phoebe 17:39

I'm very glad that you've come out the other side of it and found your way back to falling in love with running. And hopefully now I can share some of your hard earned wisdom in all of this. We

Anna 17:48

love sharing

Phoebe 17:49

knowledge. We love it. some mics in front of us. We'll just knowledge share.

Anna 17:56

It's

Phoebe 17:57

So generous. We really are. Philanthropic, this podcast.

Anna 18:03

Um, alright, so Phoebe, enough of me talking. Can you

Phoebe 18:07

enough.

Anna 18:08

please. Um, what is running burnout? Like, what's the science behind it and why does it happen?

Phoebe 18:14

Okay, so the TLDR here is running burnout.

Anna 18:17

The what?

Phoebe 18:18

Um, TLDR.

Anna 18:19

TLDR. Mm

Phoebe 18:20

Do you not know that term?

Anna 18:20

know that term?

Phoebe 18:21

Okay, boomer.

Anna 18:22

Okay, boomer. Um, it means,

Phoebe 18:24

it means, um,

Anna 18:26

like if

Phoebe 18:26

too long, didn't read. So people, if there's like a massive, or don't read, like if there's a massive block of text, Then it's like the summary, it's like the one line summary, the TLDR, like the download kind of like

Anna 18:39

that. Okay, can we, do people know what that means? Let's make a poll.

Phoebe 18:43

I'm gonna say that they

Anna 18:44

they do. But

Phoebe 18:45

but yeah, happy to, people in startups use a lot of acronyms, so it could also be that, yeah. We'll, we'll take it to the people. Yeah, yeah,

Anna 18:55

T ldr, R

Phoebe 18:57

the patient has,

Anna 18:58

adapt. No need to keep reading.

Phoebe 19:01

it's a useful, it's very useful. Um, Anyway, so the TLDR is that running burnout is some combination of over training and under recovering. Really what Anna and I figured out as we're reading the literature around this is that running burnout, this is shocking, running burnout is really the same as work burnout, but for running.

Anna 19:23

Really it can apply to any realm of

Phoebe 19:26

That's true. Burning out. Burning out, exactly. It basically happens as a result of sustained high levels of stress without enough recovery. Yeah,

Anna 19:35

So when the body is enduring stress, it doesn't know or care what the cause is. So it could be from work, relationships, cross training, being sick, not eating enough, not sleeping enough, not relaxing enough, or, how many kilometers you run. So the body can't recognize that, One stressor is from X and the other stressor is

Phoebe 19:55

Yeah, you can't like compartmentalize, it's not like, Oh, it's okay because I'm, I'm overstressing myself, but it's in different con like, or I've got medium levels of stresses in different contexts. It's like all those things, your body still has the same chemical reactions to that, which is basically like when, when you're over what we say in people over training and also people who are chronically overstressed, your body has higher levels of, catecholamines, which are basically hormones that are released by your adrenal glands when you're stressed. So people will have heard of these. It's adrenaline, it's epinephrine, norepinephrine. And so it's okay to get spikes of these, stress hormones. In fact, that's like a healthy response. But, um, what's really bad is if it isn't just here and there, but it's sustained kind of higher cortisol levels over longer periods of time.

Anna 20:45

Yeah, so essentially there are two kinds of training. There's functional overreaching, which means you stress the body with hard workouts and long runs, but then you also provide it with time to recover, which what causes the adaptations. And it helps you get fitter and faster. This is the kind of training that is ideal. However, there, there's quite a small threshold between this functional overreaching, and then the non functional overreaching, which can often feel the same, but it is very different. You're doing your hard workouts, your long runs, but you're not allowing yourself. or your body to recover. Um, and you're not recovering before the next time you're putting your body under stress again. So the thing that makes this really tricky is defining overtraining because as we've touched on before, the impact of all of this on your body comes down to so much more than just the amount of kilometers you run.

Phoebe 21:42

yeah, so really the takeaway there is stress is stress and whilst that, um, hopefully that kind of science y side helps give some context to what we're going to talk about. But the other thing that we think will really bring it to life is some stories from our community because we put a call out to our listeners and said, does anyone want to tell us the story about, if you've ever had running burnout before? And we got some. unbelievable responses. Some, very insightful, tough, hard things that people went, were, like, very generous to share with us. and we thought we might, uh, read some of these out.

Anna 22:18

Yeah. We just wanted to say thank you so much for everyone who wrote in with their own experiences of burnout. Cause I know it can be like quite challenging opening up, we just wanted to reiterate that you're definitely not alone, even though it might feel super isolating. There are so many people who are going through it or who have gone through it. So yeah, don't be too hard on yourself and

Phoebe 22:41

that's right. Well said.

Anna 22:43

have a little rest.

Phoebe 22:43

Have a rest. That's right. I began running consistently during COVID and ran 10k most days with a long run on the weekend. It honestly felt manageable for me as my energy was only otherwise being put towards work. But when we returned to somewhat normal living post COVID, I think the burnout slowly began, and it was probably at the start of 2022 that I really felt it. I started training for the Gold Coast Marathon, I increased my mileage too fast, I began doing doubles, and running became a chore. In

Anna 23:19

I had no expectations to do a good time, but things went really well and I ran 3. 30. I was absolutely stoked and signed up for the following year's Sydney Marathon straight away. I didn't really give myself a break. I trained practically from the time across the finish line. My running story

Phoebe 23:34

My running burnout story is probably more of a life burnout story. The classic not dialling down the running when life revs up. For example, working long hours, wedding prep, house hunting, etc. And not eating the right amounts.

Anna 23:48

wedding prep, house hunting, etc. are not eating the right amounts. So, there are some stories for how our

Phoebe 23:59

So there are some stories for how some of our listeners fell into a position of running burnout. What are some of the commonalities you notice between those stories?

Anna 24:09

Lack of rest, lack of recovery, not really identifying that the, as we said before, the stresses of life as a whole,

Phoebe 24:20

The other, a real common thread that came through with people who submitted answers here was the effect that COVID and races continually being pushed back or cancelled had. And it was interesting, it's interesting to reflect on that, obviously, let's say you're training for a race and then it gets pushed back four months, that is a period of sustained training without giving your body a break. But it's also like a mentally a big toll to constantly be building up for something and never have that when you race and you can like have a big mental reset. So I feel like there's a few different factors

Anna 24:55

Yeah, I feel like races are good to have that circuit breaker. Like physically, but also mentally. Um, to regroup. Do a couple of other things, like focus on other stuff. Or not be like so invested in running for a little bit. And then come back to it, when you're ready with Like new goals and a fresh attitude

Phoebe 25:13

Yeah, I think something else that's really worth saying here is you don't need to be, training for a marathon to get running burnout because a lot of the submissions we got were more about actually people just trying to get into running while their life was also running. Um, and it's all relative to where you're at and the additional load that you're putting on your body. So it's, it's not helpful, uh, and this will be a theme throughout, but it's not helpful to compare yourself to other people and what they're able to do because it's all about what are all the different stresses that you personally are coping with and how is this additional running or lack of rest, relative to where you were at beforehand.

Anna 25:55

yeah, exactly. so that's

Phoebe 25:56

so that's basically why running burnout happens and some examples of practically what that looks like. And now we might talk about what it feels like, what, what is the actual, you know, you heard a bit about Anna's experience of running burnout, but again, it seems to vary quite differently, um, between people. We thought we'd split it up into what, what seemed to be the leading indicators or maybe the early symptoms of, of running burnout that, you know, you might be able to recognize and then maybe the more kind of progressed symptoms. Can you tell us about some of the common early symptoms of running burnout? Yeah,

Anna 26:30

Lack of motivation, the sort of like lack of care and, just that loss of being excited about goals and getting up to run. Yeah.

Phoebe 26:49

with running changed.

Anna 26:51

And I think as well, the lack of motivation to go and meet friends, to go for a run, which might've been something that you previously looked forward to. Whereas now it seems like a chore. Um,

Phoebe 27:03

one, another early symptom is lower energy. Um, running should be an energizing thing in your life. It should make you feel more resilient, more capable of dealing with your work and everything that's going on. If you're finding that your energy levels are dropping overall, then that might be a sign that you're starting to get some running burnout.

Anna 27:22

obviously sometimes you'll go for a run and you won't feel, quite as good as you would You may feel rejuvenated after, and you might feel like you have lower energy. That's not to say that like you should hit the panic buttons, but it's more just like if that's over a sort of two, like one to two week period, each time you go for a run, you're just not feeling great. That's when I would probably try to take a step back and maybe reevaluate where you're at. Um, the other thing would be like training, stalling or plateauing. We've said before, running progression and getting faster, it's never linear, but if you're getting to the stage where, you just feel like your training's no

Phoebe 27:59

not getting out what you're

Anna 28:00

yeah. And no matter like how many weeks of like consistent training, you just don't feel like you're actually getting the adaptations that you feel like you should be getting. Um, that might be a sign that maybe you're doing a little bit too much and need to take a step back again.

Phoebe 28:15

And I think that the challenging, um, part here, or maybe like the honest conversation that people need to have with themselves. Runners tend to get in this state of low energy training stalling and their, their response is that they feel frustrated and so they push themselves more. That was a really common theme in the stories people sent in is like, I, I was so disappointed in myself and these performances. So I would just go back and I would just go harder. And that is the real challenge here is to respond, not by pushing more, but by pulling back

Anna 28:46

a little bit. Yeah. As the running burnout progresses more, do we obviously come into like more serious, risks? The main one would be injuries, which can almost be a little bit of a circuit breaker in running burnout. Injuries are often a way for your body to raise a flag and say like, Hey, I'm not coping with what you're putting me through, so we need to dial it back. And I think sometimes injuries can be a bit of a blessing in disguise to actually combat running burnout in the long term. Yes, that

Phoebe 29:16

that is exactly right. Um, we also see like reduced immune functioning. So people who just kind of constantly getting sick and can't like get on top of that and just like being hit by virus after virus.

Anna 29:29

virus. Yep. We often speak about running. Holistically, as part of your life. And I think when, that lack of motivation with running infiltrates the rest of your life, whether that be work, socially, or at home,

Phoebe 29:42

and then there's kind of getting to the stage of like dreading running. A lot of people said it wasn't just that they weren't motivated. They were like physically dreading the idea of some of these runs. and then obviously the final kind of extension of this is full on running burnout, chronic fatigue, having to take months or years off the sport, which is the worst stage of it, I

Anna 30:02

Yeah, yeah. A couple of quotes that people popped in about what it felt like for them.

Phoebe 30:09

I knew I had running burnout when I could no longer wake myself up early to go for a run. I'd been through bouts of simply being motivated and not motivated, but this felt like waking up. And getting dressed and putting my shoes on was going to be the biggest and most painful chore I ever did. I stopped caring if I was feeling my body correctly and had very little energy. My body was tight and my legs felt like they didn't even belong to me.

Anna 30:35

I was five week deeps into my training block and the longer runs started to come. I was so bent out. I just dreaded them. I hated running and there was maybe one whole month where I would struggle to run twice a week and I hated myself for it. I would watch Instagram stories of all my friends completing their long runs and the Sydney marathon stories of how the race was coming up and how all these different people were training for it. Long story short, I got in a really bad headspace. I felt so disappointed.

Phoebe 31:01

I would be so nervous the day before a tempo session, have difficulty sleeping at night, and then be so fatigued in the morning, causing me to have extreme amounts of caffeine in the morning, do my run, and then be so, so wiped out for the rest of the day. I was so set on my goals that I was determined just to soldier on, despite how much it was impacting me outside of running, mainly because I was so tired and didn't have the energy for anything else. It's so, they're so heartbreaking to read. Yeah,

Anna 31:29

Yeah I know it's really sad.

Phoebe 31:31

Yeah. and when we talk about the dark side of running, like, this is it in so many ways. How, these people clearly feel so isolated. Running has turned from something that is a joy to something that, brings them an enormous amount of stress and anxiety and, self loathing and. Yeah. I think,

Anna 31:47

I think like the one thing that we can sort of take from it is that even though quite often it is unspoken, because I feel like there's a lot of shame around it, everyone does go through it, even if it's just for a small period of time, but I As we've said, it's nothing that should be shied away from, or felt shame over, because, like anything, it's just a part of life. There's good and there's bad in everything.

Phoebe 32:11

Agreed. And so let's talk about how we recover from it. How do we get past running burnout? In the short term to get past running burnout there's really only one solution. And that is rest.

Anna 32:24

rest.

Phoebe 32:25

Um, yeah, really, the only way to get out of your energy deficit and reduce that kind of stress on your body and wait for those stress hormones to re stabilize is just resting. So how much rest you take depends on how burnt out you are. If you're just starting to notice some of those early signs of running burnout, consider taking some kind of short term immediate actions from again, thinking about holistic approach to stress, everything from a few days off running, running, Work, focus on your sleep. How are you feeling? How are you hydrating?

Anna 32:57

It. Yeah, even if you enjoy your job or you like the life that you lead, day in, day out, you still appreciate and, get a lot from taking a break from that and having a holiday.

Phoebe 33:10

And

Anna 33:11

like running. It's much the same. I feel like it should be seasonal and like quite often because there aren't running seasons, people might forget to actually take the break from it. But I think it's really important in order to get the best out of ourselves, we also need to give ourselves a

Phoebe 33:27

Yeah, So

Anna 33:30

term, um, think about your mindset in relation to running and maybe what has contributed to putting yourself in this position. I think for a lot of us, it might just be a lack of awareness, in which case there's a great chance to reflect and learn from it. I also thought coming back to your running why is really important. I feel like I've said this so many times, but like, as we've spoken about, yeah, I feel like coming back to why you started running in the first place and why you continue to run, that can sometimes get lost in, be talking about sort of like the thick of everything else, whether it be like stress or training or racing. And I feel like coming back to your running, why and just honing in on that will allow you to open up and start running again. And purely for the enjoyment of it

Phoebe 34:15

like open up and like start running again. Purely for the enjoyment of it Some people, for some people it was stopping racing and cutting out that pressure in their life or stopping running with a certain group. For others it was starting to run with a group or adding in races to add in some more fun. So it is clearly very individual and you need to find a way to look at the reason why you're running and how you can kind of help contribute to that.

Anna 34:40

Yeah. one piece that someone wrote into, which was a lesson takeaway from their own running burnout story, we both really loved. So, I think we'll just read that one out, to leave you guys with.

Phoebe 34:54

After the race, I gave myself some time off. I'm training for the 2024 marathon now and absolutely loving every second of it. My running burnout taught me that it's okay to give yourself a break. Your fitness will come back with time. Fitness is like seasons. Sometimes the flowers are flourishing and you're running PBs, and other times it's cold and the flowers are out of season. But this time with no flowers is important because it means they'll be even more beautiful in the spring.

Anna 35:25

in the spring.

Phoebe 35:26

So nice.

Anna 35:28

All right. It is time for the rundown so last time we did the rundown, we spoke about the women's marathon selection in, reference to the Australians and how so crazy how six women had made the qualifying time.

Phoebe 35:43

Unreal.

Anna 35:44

Unreal. Um, this week we're actually going to be speaking about the men's team.

Phoebe 35:49

Because there's a bit of a different, controversy happening for the men's team. Some of you may have been seeing some things about this in the news, online, on socials, but we thought we'd, we'd break it down for you.

Anna 36:00

Yeah, so for the Olympic marathon the guidelines for selection were put out in late 2022, there were written for 80 runners for the females and 80 runners for the males. For the males, there were actually only 70 runners, that reached that qualifying time. So the other ways to actually qualify for the Olympics was to, be in the top 80 of the quota places on the world ranking system. Now, our third Australian.

Phoebe 36:32

male,

Anna 36:33

Finished 74th on that list where the top 80 were thought to go through and qualify for the Olympics. However, these remaining 10 spots. Has been given to the universality places, which is for athletes who come from underrepresented national Olympic committees, according to the international Olympics committee.

Phoebe 36:55

So, just to break that down, so I make sure I understand it,

Anna 36:58

it.

Phoebe 36:59

normally you take the top 80. However, because they only want the race to be 80 people, and they've got 10 people from other countries who, through the universality rule, are going to be doing the marathon, people who ranked 70 to 80 who thought they'd qualified have now been told that they don't qualify anymore.

Anna 37:20

Yeah, so it's actually, sorry to make this confusing, but it's actually 11 via universality. Yep. Yep. Yep. Um, Yeah. Um, this has bumped Liam Adams, the Australian along with a lot of other athletes out. As previously mentioned, when the guidelines were written, they were the rules and then the window for, getting this qualifying time finished on the 4th of May. And since the 5th of May, they have now announced. spots that, no, it won't be the people that have made the qualifying time and then the remainder that are in those places from 70 to 80, they're now going to be bumped out and there's going to be 11 places via the universality spots that will be picked and racing.

Phoebe 38:11

which is pretty controversial, I think, because, for someone like Liam, like he made strategic decisions about which races he would run and not run, because he believed that he'd already, he was already qualifying through his ranking position, even though he hadn't made the actual qualifying time.

Anna 38:27

Yeah, exactly. I think this has caused controversy this year and not in previous years is that in, for instance, in 2016, there were only four universality places awarded in the men's marathon. And then in Tokyo it was just one. The reason, for this increase in places is that it was open to pretty much all events, apart from a couple, whereas now it's

Phoebe 38:50

getting kind of funneled

Anna 38:51

yeah, funneled into the

Phoebe 38:52

the crazy, the crazy thing is like it'd just be so easy to have 91 people in the Marathon rather

Anna 38:58

Yeah. Like, it I think it's so unfair to give people, um, this like false sense of security and then almost like pull the, like, the line. Um, and there was like a safety net that like,

Phoebe 39:10

lot of outrage, in the running community, I would say, obviously, on behalf of Liam. Some of the responses have been quite interesting. I'm not sure if you've heard this take of people saying that, you know, The athletes who have been given a position through the universality places should feel a bit like a little bit ashamed because they're just being given like a token place. What do you think about that? I

Anna 39:34

I really dislike that take, I think because like so many things, not everyone has the same resources and opportunities we're so fortunate living in Australia. I feel like the whole point of the Olympic spirit is that you have a representative from all of these different countries. So I think it is such a great thing. Um, or great idea. that these people, from underrepresented countries do get a go. Um, and so I think it's awesome, but I think just the way it's panned out in this sense, it shouldn't take away from people who have actually thought that they were already in. If this was always going to be the case, then it's like. Tough titties, you knew, whereas like the rules have actually kind of changed. And I think that's the bit that like, doesn't sit right

Phoebe 40:26

me. That's tricky.'cause like it's the Olympics, it's massive.

Anna 40:29

exactly. Yeah. But if you have clear guidelines, then well, you know, you didn't make this. So like, I'm sorry, but you're out. But this false sense of security thinking like you're in, you're in, you're in. And then all of a sudden they're like, actually, no,

Phoebe 40:41

life. Well, yeah, there's, there's petitions going around, people doing their best, to get him in. So, fingers crossed, we'll see him on the start line.

Anna 40:53

That's it

Phoebe 40:53

for episode 16. Thank you so much for tuning in and listening. we have some pretty exciting announcements. Maybe next week. We've just got some pretty big things that we're working on at the moment. Can't wait to share with you

Anna 41:06

Can't wait to share with you all.

Phoebe 41:09

slowly, slowly but surely turning. Um,

Anna 41:13

turning. Um, yes, as always, Please like, subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts, let us know where you're listening from, whether it be a run, whether you're on the train to work, uni, whether you're in the car with your dogs, we want to see, we want to know.

Phoebe 41:29

want to know.

Anna 41:32

Otherwise, we'll be in your ears.

Phoebe 41:35

Otherwise, we'll be in your ears.