Running into creativity

Oh helloooo cheeky chums!
 
This week we chat to our friend Bronte to showcase a different model for why people run.  We talk about running to explore whilst travelling and then explore different theories for how running boosts your creativity. We finish with a listener question from Bronte where we unpack how to level up your long runs.

This episode of Cheeky Run Club is brought to you by Pillar Performance and they have been generous enough to  give our Cheeky community a discount code. Use  CHEEKY for 15% off at checkout on your first order.
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Music produced by Hugh Raper

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 Music produced by Hugh Raper & logo design by Michael Cotellessa. Podcast edited by Kiara Martin.

Transcript

Phoebe 0:00

Cheeky Run Club

Bronte 0:00

recognises that every day we live, work and run on Aboriginal land.

Phoebe 0:06

This episode of Cheeky Run Club is brought to you by Pillar Performance, a micronutrition company that's mission is to get athletes to the start line in the best condition over and over again.

Bronte 0:23

Welcome to episode 19 of Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast and community for your everyday amateur runner. Hello, Phoebe. Hello, Anna. And hello, listeners.

Phoebe 0:34

Today we are chatting about why runners run. To do this, we're doing something a little bit different that we've wanted to do for a long time. One of our biggest goals when starting the pod was that we wanted to explore how and why different people run. We know that while Anna and I speak a lot about our relationships with running, that relationship actually looks different for everyone. So, with that in mind, we asked our friend Bronte to join us and we interviewed her about her relationship with Rami, which we're very excited to share with you all.

Bronte 1:07

we're then going to finish it off by answering a listener question, considering our guest is also a listener, we're going to answer a

Phoebe 1:13

a practical question. Love it. But let's kick off with our notable runs of the week. Anna, I want to hear about your best run.

Bronte 1:22

My best run of the week was Tuesday this week. It started off badly because I actually, I don't know what happened. I want to say slept through my alarm, but it's not so you can sleep through your alarm because your alarm just keeps going until you turn it off. So I've obviously turned off my alarm without realizing. Dave woke me up being like, aren't you meeting friends? and so I'd completely miss the boat to go to like track on a Tuesday morning. So then I decided I was like, I'll just sort of chill and then drive to work earlier and go for a run from there. and it was just real, it was really nice running by myself and just, me and my thoughts. And one of our friends, Jenna, was going on a hot air balloon ride that morning. And as I was running around the tan in Melbourne, I saw this hot air balloon and and I was like, Oh my gosh, it's Jenna. Anyway. So then for the next like five, 10 minutes, I kind of tried to just like follow the balloon.

Phoebe 2:14

you follow it around? Yeah.

Bronte 2:16

Um, Which was kind of fun. I don't know why, for some reason in my head, I thought maybe she could see me. So I started waving. I would have looked so weird to all of the fellow pedestrians going around the tan. but yeah, that was my best run. what's your best run of the week?

Phoebe 2:32

best run was on Friday. I, because I was going away for the weekend. I was a bit worried about doing my long run down in lawn. I didn't know if there'd be, that's quite hilly. I just didn't exactly know where I'd run. So I decided I'd do it on Friday instead. And I decided probably against my coach's wishes. I just decided to combine it with my session, just get it all done. Cause I was running out of, Days in the week to do all my runs. So I started really early on Friday morning. I met my friend Ayrton to do the session, which was good. I took the session a bit easier because I was including it as part of my long run. so I did the session. That was really nice. And then I met up with my brother who was in town for, Well, for work, but also it was near his birthday. So I met up with him and did like, then I did a run with him. And so I got kind of two runs in with two people. And then by the end I only had maybe like seven K's to go. And so I just ran home and

Bronte 3:34

How

Phoebe 3:35

yeah, it was so, I was so pleased with myself because it was the longest run I'd done in such a long time, but because I'd broken it up with like a session, which really makes a long run go a lot faster. Yeah.

Bronte 3:46

lot faster.

Phoebe 3:47

And then a run with my brother, which was so nice, like beautiful sunrise. It felt like it went so quickly. And then I started work on Friday and I was like, God, I just smashed out my session analong

Bronte 3:58

I was going to say, so you have achieved doing your session, long run, catching up with a friend and catching up with your brother from

Phoebe 4:06

Yeah, it's huge. Yep.

Bronte 4:10

that's a good effort.

Phoebe 4:11

So, I was pumped and it was lovely.

Bronte 4:13

lovely. Nice!

Phoebe 4:14

what about your worst run?

Bronte 4:16

My worst run of the week was yesterday, Thursday, uh, sorry to say you were also on the run. And so was our friend Gemma from Sydney and it's no fault of either of yours.

Phoebe 4:28

I love how we always need to proclaim, through no fault of the people.

Bronte 4:32

because I'm like, I feel like all of the ingredients was to have a good run. but yeah, I ended up doing a session. I feel like I gave it., my best training partner, friend, pacer, Jaco, a big shout out last week. And then he's just left me in the,

Phoebe 4:48

he's been demoted. he just

Bronte 4:50

just hasn't turned up this week. Anyway. So I did a I did a threshold session by myself and when I was warming up, I, we, we, had a big couple of

Phoebe 5:00

days. Should we say what

Bronte 5:01

yeah, so we went, we were like fortunate enough to get invited to go to the. Nike Pacific Running Summit, uh, which was held like in Melbourne CBD for yeah, the last two days, which was, it was so

Phoebe 5:14

It

Bronte 5:15

we'll make a couple of reels on social media just to

Phoebe 5:18

give you some insight into

Bronte 5:21

what happened. Um, but it was such a fun few days. They did like such a good job of hosting us, but it was like, it was a lot, like I was pretty tired.

Phoebe 5:30

Thursday

Bronte 5:31

morning. Um, yeah, the struggle was real even to like run from where we were staying to get to Albert Park Lake where we were doing our session and it just never really got better. Um, but I'm trying to think of a

Phoebe 5:48

I don't need a butt. No, we don't need a

Bronte 5:50

No, I actually know I do have a positive spin.

Anna 5:53

Breakfast afterwards.

Bronte 5:54

Phoebe and I got room service breakfast afterwards. And we had it in our dress and gowns and I felt like an absolute

Phoebe 6:01

in our dress and gowns and I felt like an absolute queen. Yeah,

Bronte 6:09

like what you see in the

Phoebe 6:10

you see

Bronte 6:12

It was really

Phoebe 6:13

movies. It was really cool. Like unveiling, like opening up the lid, and then there's just like a tiny little

Bronte 6:20

and then there's just like a tiny little plate. Oh, I was just

Phoebe 6:31

Oh, big time, yeah. I don't know

Bronte 6:33

Oh,

Phoebe 6:34

this. Oh, especially not for breakfast, like what?

Bronte 6:37

Um, but yeah,

Phoebe 6:39

like, oh, hello! Coming! Coming!

Bronte 6:41

your worst run?

Phoebe 6:44

restaurant? Um Also, Thursday morning. So yeah, as Anna said, we just had had, I think we just had such a massive day the day before. And when you're excited, you just expend a lot of energy. And I wasn't like eating my usual, I think like, Yeah, I just wasn't like eating my usual foods. Slept really badly. It was like the most beautiful. I was staying in such a cool place. The bed was so soft and comfortable, but I think just because it was a new place, I just couldn't really sleep and I was too excited from all the fun. Um, And so when I woke up the next morning, I just was like, Oh, this is going to be a real slog. And I had, I also had a tempo session. It was very long. Um, very, very, very, very, very long. And luckily Jemma did it with me, which was amazing because yeah, I feel so lucky to have so many like women in my life who are like,

Anna 7:37

life who are

Phoebe 7:38

better at running than me. Who is so inspirational and just like, it's just, yeah, it's just inspiring to be like, Oh wow, look at these women, like same as me, same age, whatever. And they can like go out and do this. And so yeah, I ran with Jem. She kept me company and we like just really like encouraged each other the whole time and yeah I think that definitely helped but by the time we did a call down back to the hotel my legs were cooked like I was like we're literally counting down like a few hundred meters to go when can we start walking like it was brutal.

Bronte 8:13

Yeah, I was a bit jealous. I saw you guys running

Phoebe 8:15

running through there. I was like, um, You had the option.

Bronte 8:18

me. Yeah,

Phoebe 8:19

did. You were like, I wish I was someone who didn't have to do every session that was

Bronte 8:23

I also, I don't think I probably would be broken today

Phoebe 8:26

if you didn't record the

Bronte 8:28

kilometre tempo. Oh

Phoebe 8:28

um, yeah, I'm still broken.

Bronte 8:30

broken. Yeah. Um, alright, let's get into it.

Phoebe 8:33

Our main topic this week is Why Runners Run. As we said at the start, we want to showcase different runners to give a greater variety of models for why people run. And with that in mind, we asked our friend Bronte to join us on the pod. Hello, Bronte.

Bronte 8:48

Hello.

Phoebe 8:48

Bronte is one of my favorite people to chat to about running because whilst there are some obvious fundamental similarities, a lot of what drives you to run and what running does for you is really different. To Anna and I. Bronte's writing a book. She's working as head of storytelling at a biodiversity venture capital firm. You're kind of living this really amazing, creative, flexible live.. So we are excited to unpack that.

Bronte 9:13

Welcome. Thank you, it's good to be here.

Anna 9:15

Let's start with a quick fire of notable runs of the week. Tell us about your, tell us about your best run of the week. Okay.

Phoebe 9:21

run

Bronte 9:22

Okay, My best run of the week was yesterday. Um, in the past three weeks, I've started running with a friend for the first time. I'm staunchly against running with people, as Phoebe will know. We've never run together.

Phoebe 9:33

been people that we've never run together. Despite my many attempts.

Bronte 9:36

Um, but it's actually quite fun. Um,

Phoebe 9:39

do that

Anna 9:40

our

Bronte 9:41

it here first. Um, so I ran with our friend Car, she's going away to Europe for nine weeks. And it was just nice to have a Big chat, long coffee, and just, like, say goodbye

Phoebe 9:51

go this way. Yeah, I've been on a run. I thought it was,

Bronte 9:55

have, and I've been like, I'm gonna go

Phoebe 9:56

and you're

Anna 9:57

yeah, I've been

Bronte 9:58

a run

Anna 9:59

and you're like, I thought it was like some stranger and you're like, that's my housemate.

Bronte 10:02

housemate.

Phoebe 10:03

refuses to run with me.

Bronte 10:05

run away. Yeah,

Phoebe 10:07

So you're enjoying the running with friends.

Bronte 10:09

wouldn't say that I would do it.

Anna 10:10

it. With you.

Bronte 10:11

All the time. All the

Phoebe 10:13

the time. All

Bronte 10:16

I just, no, it's not you.

Phoebe 10:17

Um, no, it's not you. Um,

Bronte 10:23

running is my alone time to think and to, which I think we'll get into later, but it's where I have my best ideas and it's just, it's too, it's too valuable to kind of sacrifice all that for social time. And I socialize after work a lot as well, so I don't need to double

Anna 10:38

to double up. Yeah. Um, what's, what's your worst run of the week?

Bronte 10:42

the week? Yes, so I got injured just after Easter, uh, or just before Easter and stopped running at Easter and I didn't run for all of April. So April is my, it just gets my worst run of the

Phoebe 10:53

run

Anna 10:53

worst

Bronte 10:53

entirety

Anna 10:54

week,

Phoebe 10:55

run of the week is the month of April.

Anna 10:56

didn't

Bronte 10:57

I didn't run at all. And lately I've been back and so nothing could be bad about running at

Phoebe 11:01

Oh, that's

Bronte 11:03

so good.

Phoebe 11:04

That's such a nice, like, golden era when you come back from injury and you're just like, I'm so happy to

Bronte 11:10

it's like pouring with rain. I'm like, this is so good to be outside. Oh, I love it.

Phoebe 11:17

Nice one. Um, so we really want to explore your relationship with running and how that's changed over the years. So let's start at the start. Um, tell us, how did you feel about running in school?

Bronte 11:31

Yeah, so I started running in year 10.

Anna 11:33

year

Bronte 11:34

Uh, year 10 was probably the year that I started to feel pretty uncomfortable in my own skin. I'd changed schools in year nine, but it wasn't until year 10 that we went to kind of the senior campus where all the kind of older kids were. And I just remember feeling so just like uncomfortable and on display. It was a boarding school. So there was really no getting away from that environment. And so I started running to lose weight.

Anna 11:57

weight.

Bronte 11:57

my relationship with running in school was like, it wasn't great. It was, I was there for a reason. It was to go as hard and as fast as possible and to eat as little as possible afterwards. So,

Phoebe 12:07

possible and to eat as little as possible afterwards,

Anna 12:11

got

Bronte 12:12

Um, so when I went to uni, I obviously didn't have any parental supervision. I remember arriving at uni, I went to Canberra, and I arrived at residential college and I had that same feeling of being on display, feeling uncomfortable, not knowing how to talk to boys, probably still a feature in my life, but very much a feature back then. So I was running heaps and heaps and heaps every day for as long as I could. Up until 2022, I was still sort of running to maybe like lose weight and be fit and those sorts of things. Not quite as, uh, intensely as I was when I was younger, just cause I was working and I guess life gets in the way. But at the end of 2022, I got really burnt out from my job and I went, I don't know, I, funnily enough, even though I'd never solo traveled before, the thought is. Going away by myself for a year to Southeast Asia was far less daunting than the idea of getting another job. I was just so, I needed a circuit break, right? I was so burnt out. So I booked a ticket to Thailand and I was like, I've got a freelance job, I'm off. And I started running and I was moving around cities every like three days. I was in a new town, new city. And running became so fun because, you know, Like, you're like going on an adventure every morning, no one else is up, or like people are setting up their like shops or their, you know, their market stalls and you're out there running like seeing different parts of all these new cities, like everyone's waving at you because you're a bit of a novelty because you're like that weird crazy girl who's like up at 6. 30 just like running through the streets.

Anna 13:42

streets. And,

Bronte 13:43

Yeah, I think running became, my running why became like adventure and curiosity and observation and I saw so much more of the city than I would have otherwise every to every day or every second day when I was running and yeah, I think I fell in love with running in a healthy way for the first time in my life, which was incredible.

Phoebe 14:01

That's a big transition in terms of your running. Why going from something that's like trying to get yourself to lose weight to something that's like enabling you to adventure and explore and everything like that. Like what, what helped you make that reframe in your mind?

Bronte 14:16

I think it's really hard to change your habits when you don't change your environment. Because there's, you're so set in your ways, right? And I've been running the same routes from the same house for so long when I was in Melbourne. But taking me out of that environment and putting me somewhere else where everything was so new, I think was just a complete circuit breaker, like just a blank slate that I could

Phoebe 14:33

just

Bronte 14:34

kind of like reframe everything.

Phoebe 14:36

couldn't recreate when you were traveling, how did that work? Like you're living in Southeast Asia, you're moving around, like practically, how did you know where to run and when to run? Yeah.

Bronte 14:45

So, I mean, I got a program for the first time as well.

Phoebe 14:48

I asked

Bronte 14:54

for a program and that was very helpful because for the first time it wasn't just, I'm going to wake up and go for it. run and just run far and fast or whatever. I actually had sort of set days. I did set things, which was really, really, um, it made it easier to kind of plan my, my travels and my routes, but I would go on Strava. I would go on Google and I would. Just like try and figure out where people were running and I would either run there or get a scooter there and I'd show up at all these like really local places where everyone was like doing their sessions or doing their long runs and kind of just like joined in. Yeah, it was, it was really cool. I remember when I was in Java in Indonesia, in Malang, which is in the center of Java, Trying to find somewhere to run and it's, it's pretty, um, like there's no sidewalks or anything there. It's, it's, it's not that developed. And I found this, what looked to be a track on Google Maps. And so I was like, okay, I'll go there. And I rock up and it says military training. base thing. Um, it's, it's open to the public. Like there's, there's running groups there as well, but I reckon there's like 2000 like people doing that kind of drills

Phoebe 15:55

I was just like, let's just do

Bronte 15:56

I was just like, let's just do it.

Phoebe 15:58

The, where was the

Bronte 16:00

Seoul in South Korea is incredible for running. There are so many paths. I would say more than in

Phoebe 16:08

No! Wow! It's so cool. Did

Anna 16:11

so cool.

Bronte 16:11

Oh. No, no, that was fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was, I mean, there were just so many people there doing their drills, doing their

Phoebe 16:23

their exercise. Yeah, that's exciting. It was

Bronte 16:26

really exciting actually. Um, One time I needed to do a session and I couldn't find a stretch of uninterrupted path. And I think I had one kilometer reps and I found this 200

Phoebe 16:38

longer rest

Bronte 16:39

of, like, stretch alongside a river and I just went off and

Phoebe 16:42

like, stuck. So I just went off

Anna 16:45

I don't think I would go

Phoebe 16:47

Yeah.

Bronte 16:47

very Is sponsoring this episode of cheeky run club, which I love, but thieves, I do actually drink this most days. Have you tried the magnesium

Phoebe 16:57

yes I have.

Bronte 16:58

Oh, what do you think?

Phoebe 17:00

A big fan. Big fan. Yeah.

Bronte 17:02

your favorite flavor?

Phoebe 17:02

flavor? Well, this might be controversial, but the, I prefer the raspberry. I feel like everyone's really gotten into the, coconut. Pineapple. Coconut pineapple. Um, and I like it, but I think because of the way that I drink it, sorry, we've really gone off script The way that I drink it, which is, um, I drink it with boiling water, because I drink it before bed as you're supposed to, and we'll talk about why in a second. And I love a hot drink before bed. I find it really just like warm and nice and it puts me to sleep. And so I like a hot magnesium

Bronte 17:35

hot smokey

Phoebe 17:36

drink pre bed.

Bronte 17:37

serving suggestion for the company. well, I really like the pineapple coconut because when you close your eyes, it kind of feels like you might be on some remote tropical island drinking a pina colada.

Anna 17:47

And

Phoebe 17:47

that ruined if it's hot?

Bronte 17:49

I think

Phoebe 17:50

hot pina colada? Um, I mean, I

Bronte 17:52

aside from it tasting similar to a pina colada though, magnesium has been found to help recovery, lower stress levels, and support our immune systems.

Phoebe 18:01

It's a great combo for the everyday amateur runner who's trying to do a lot with their day. Best of all, it's also gluten free, vegan and made in Australia so everyone can enjoy it. you went from having very tumultuous relationships

Bronte 18:21

school

Phoebe 18:22

with running throughout school and uni. And then that really over the years turned into something that was quite like, you know, and enable a few to like, enjoy your life traveling. you, since then you've moved back to Melbourne, you're now living this life of like, so I should have probably given this context at the start, but Like, what does running look like for you now?

Bronte 18:42

Yeah. So when I started writing the book, I noticed that I would spend, you know, huge chunks of time writing a chapter or, just getting my thoughts down on page about a specific topic. And then I'd, hit like a block where, you know, you weren't really producing anything of substance anymore. But then I'd go for a run normally the next day, cause I run in the morning and I would find that I was having these huge. like, big ideas for how to kind of restructure all of those words, or a different way to approach the chapter, or something about the narrative arc, or, I don't know, just like big picture thinking. And it kept happening over and over again. And I did a bit of, like, re thinking and research into why that was, but now I very much run to supplement my Like writing practice, which I do at work and also for the book, because it just, it's such a good tool for creativity.

Phoebe 19:32

Interesting. So why is it that people have those breakthroughs on their runs?

Bronte 19:36

Yeah, well, I came up with a long list, um, but I'll give you maybe my top three reasons. So the first, I think, is just that it's so sensory, creativity is fueled by the senses and it is like a very sensory craft. So, you know, when you're at your desk, you know, you're in a room, there's no airflow, there's no natural light. Sitting there, the room looks. As it always has. When you're outside, you know, you can hear the birds, you can feel the wind on your face, you can feel the cold, you can, uh, like, I don't know, like, taste. What can you taste? Who

Phoebe 20:05

taste. Yeah.

Bronte 20:05

The air, sure. Yum. Num, num, num.

Phoebe 20:08

Um, you can, like, you can

Bronte 20:10

Um, you can, like, you can observe so many things. There's so much stimulus when you're running and that's all fuel for your creativity. So there's that. Um, then there's this thing called the cathedral effect. So, when I'm at my desk, I find it really easy to write within confines, so like answering a question or writing a chapter or writing to a brief. But when it comes to kind of thinking beyond that and getting creative, I really struggle at my desk. But when I'm running, I find it really easy. And so there's this thing called the cathedral effect, and basically it's a, it's a, It's been verified by studies, but when you're in a small space, it's much easier to think analytically and to focus. But when you're in a space with high ceilings and kind of like, you know, the walls are wide, you can think big picture thoughts. And it's called the cathedral effect, because if you think you're in a cathedral, high ceilings, people think expansive thoughts. And I figure like nothing is more expansive than the sky and being outside. And I really find that.

Anna 21:05

find

Phoebe 21:05

Oh, so interesting. Um, with that, with that one, sorry, I know you've got a third, but with that one and the one before. How would that work for you if you're running on a treadmill in a gym? Oh, never. Wouldn't, it wouldn't work? Yeah,

Anna 21:18

interesting. So you always have to, you sort of have like, requirements in the sense, like you gotta run outside. You

Bronte 21:24

gotta run outside, yeah. Why would you want to spend all your time in a room and then exercise in a room? It's kind of crazy.

Phoebe 21:32

yeah, it's kind of great. Um, and so number three?

Bronte 21:36

Number three is this idea called, uh, it's called the faucet method, which is very American. So let's call it like the tap method for people down under. But it's this idea that when you are being creative. It's like turning on a tap and initially there's all this dirty water in the tap, um, that's got to come out before the clean water flows. And every time you start writing, you've got to get rid of that dirty water before the clean water flows. And if you stop before all the dirty water comes out, uh, you'll just have to do it all over again, uh, the next time you try and start writing. And most people don't push through to the clean water. They don't accept that. All of. Like everything you write initially will be bad, like that's kind of the point. And so you can sit at your desk and do that, but it is demoralizing at times to sit there and for half an hour just write absolute trash and question whether you really have any talent at all. But when you're running, it kind of just happens. Like you warm up, you're sort of just like letting your brain. So what, what does that look like in terms of like you have these ideas when you're running? Is it as

Phoebe 22:41

So interesting.

Anna 22:42

So what, what, what does that look like in terms of like, you have these ideas when you're

Bronte 22:48

to

Anna 22:48

Is it as soon as you get home, you're like, okay, I got to get to my desk. Like I got to get all this stuff down or,

Bronte 22:55

My problem is I have really bad memory, so if I don't write it down when I have the idea, I will forget it. So, some of my runs are pretty haphazard. Like, I'm like, this is the best idea for a chapter, or I should do things like, I should do micro chapters. I should, you know, shorten everything and I'll need to stop and I'll need to write

Phoebe 23:13

down. Yeah,

Bronte 23:15

on my phone,

Anna 23:16

still

Bronte 23:16

yeah, I'm still trying to figure out a way, I haven't really tried that to, like, get Siri to, to be able to say, like, hey. Siri, can you record

Phoebe 23:24

this down.

Anna 23:25

record my voice?

Bronte 23:26

so if someone could invent that, that would be

Phoebe 23:28

I'm sure you could probably say, Hey Siri, can you Yeah. I reckon if you ask her nicely.

Anna 23:35

true. I could try a lot harder. But yeah, right now it's just, stop, write

Bronte 23:41

That's true. I could try a lot harder, but yeah, right now it's just stop, write down and then run. But sometimes I'm stopping like 12 times in a run and people must just be thinking, this chick is out of breath.

Anna 23:51

She's like,

Bronte 23:52

every

Phoebe 23:54

I have a, um, query for you because a lot of what you're talking about is like, new stimulus and like big expensive spaces, but you often run the same route. In fact, you always run

Bronte 24:04

run the

Phoebe 24:05

Like, do you think that mixing it up would have even more creative juices? Or do you like just the same?

Bronte 24:11

even, would more creative juices, or do you like just the same? route that I run. And I can add things on, and I can go further, and I can, you know, stop in the town, I can go the other way along the river. But I think if I was trying to figure out a new route, that would be my focus for the run. Whereas I just sort of sink into it, and I just

Anna 24:35

almost like, not actually thinking about

Phoebe 24:38

where are you

Bronte 24:39

No, not at all. I'm like, this is where I run for an hour, this is where I run for 75 minutes, this is where I run for 90, and I just plot along.

Anna 24:46

Like all of your thoughts are consumed with like creative kind of

Bronte 24:48

consumed Yeah, yeah.

Anna 24:49

do you run with like headphones on music

Bronte 24:51

run with a lot of Taylor Swift. Oh, nice. I also write to Taylor Swift, so I feel like it's just sort of all

Anna 24:58

Yeah. So that doesn't stop or like block your sort of like creative thoughts. Yeah.

Bronte 25:02

thoughts?

Phoebe 25:03

I

Anna 25:03

mean, she's the mastermind,

Bronte 25:05

She is. She's fine. Um, I mean, it doesn't seem to.

Phoebe 25:11

And so, I wake up, I

Bronte 25:17

you fit it in with your riding?

Anna 25:19

etc?

Bronte 25:19

So I'm currently doing, um, a practice called morning pages. And so I wake up, I get my coffee. Um, I've recently read an article that said you can drink coffee first thing in the morning. So I've decided to do that without shame. I know. Thank goodness.

Phoebe 25:34

I do

Bronte 25:35

Um, yeah, so wake up, grab my coffee, sit at my desk and I do a 30 minute stream of consciousness, which is often two to three pages of handwritten notes.

Phoebe 25:44

kind of like the dirty water thing, or is that like, wow? Absolutely, yeah.

Bronte 25:48

it's part of this program called The Artist's Way which is all about reconnecting with your creativity but it very much is about just getting all of those thoughts out of your head first thing in the morning and It's just complete trash. It's like,

Anna 26:00

going to say, what are you writing?

Phoebe 26:02

writing?

Bronte 26:02

sometimes it's like my hand hurts. My hand still hurts. Why am I not good at handwriting? I used to be so good at handwriting when I was young

Phoebe 26:10

your handwriting? Dirty water. Oh, yeah. Or

Bronte 26:12

Oh, I

Phoebe 26:12

kind of like journaling, almost.

Bronte 26:14

Yeah, it's it is just the most basic thoughts that would normally be pinging around in your head in the morning, like you're trudging down the stairs and you're like, grr, like I didn't sleep well, like I need to do this today,

Anna 26:26

well, I need

Bronte 26:27

Exactly. Like, I would never want anyone to read these. Um, Yeah, I do feel like my brain often, my hand often can't keep up with my brain. Like I'll be writing something and I'll have like,

Phoebe 26:38

there you go. So

Bronte 26:39

be four thoughts down there, down the

Anna 26:41

So you wake up, you write power for now,

Bronte 26:44

I'm like, I'm so

Anna 26:45

I put on my mask,

Phoebe 26:47

So so you wake up, you write half an hour.

Bronte 26:49

Yep. And then I put on my running clothes. Uh, if I'm going for a run and I go for a run for between. like 45 to 75 minutes

Anna 26:58

spoken a lot about running to sort of like benefit and supplement your work. Um, where do you think you put yourself on the like enjoyment versus benefit scale? Because speaking for myself, like I love running but like, I also get. the benefits from sort of like social connection and that kind of stuff. So that's sort of like brings me a little bit more in the middle.

Bronte 27:19

yeah, probably in the middle as well. I think I, I often go for walks as well on the weekend and I get the same sort of creative, the creative benefits from walking. So it's not just, it's not that that's the only thing running provides. Like I could get that, from swimming or walking as well. Uh,

Phoebe 27:39

so I

Bronte 27:39

so I just, I really enjoy it. There's nothing like running. It is just the best part of my day. Yeah, and I am so lost when I can't run. Um, I've been doing the work to try and decouple my identity from running a little bit

Phoebe 27:54

So that when

Bronte 27:55

so that when I get injured, hopefully this was the last time, um, it's not, you know, the end of my life as I know it,

Anna 28:03

like, how do you do that? Like decouple your

Phoebe 28:07

do

Anna 28:09

a

Phoebe 28:12

practice for yourself? I think

Bronte 28:17

Um, I think it's really helped now that I identify as a writer as well. I think before I left my trip, my, I feel like my purpose in life was just to be as successful as possible. And it's like in a very kind of in the mold that we're sort of given for what success looks like, right? Which is high achiever. And I guess like my running kind of fell into that. I was just trying to be the best at the very few things I did. Whereas now I have multiple things, which like multiple identities that I'm really proud of and they, they're not all kind of linked. Like I can write and not run or I can run and not write. And I just feel like I've, Yeah. I care about both of those things as much as the other, so I always have something to kind of fall back on.

Anna 29:06

on. Yeah, yeah, like a few more eggs in your

Bronte 29:08

Exactly, that is a Great summary of my rambling, thank you.

Phoebe 29:11

my rambling. That's

Anna 29:12

At

Bronte 29:12

same time, so I've always struggled to take myself seriously as a runner. I think it's partly because I I've been surrounded by professional athletes for much of my life, and so I have these standards for what good looks like when it comes to sport, which are just completely unrealistic. But I've actually done a lot of work to be able to take on that identity as a runner, and take that seriously. And I think without that, I wouldn't be able to justify, you know, like buying myself shoes or all these things. I'd be like, well, you're not a runner, so you can't, you can't get

Phoebe 29:39

get mittens.

Bronte 29:41

I love the label. I just think it can't be your only label.

Phoebe 29:44

I love the label. I don't think it can't be your only label.

Bronte 29:57

hard for

Phoebe 29:58

for me as well to like, say like, Oh, even things as small as like activations, pre run, I thought that like to do that or to do rolling or whatever, I was like, Oh, you have to be certain level before you like, take that kind of thing seriously. So yeah, does that, does that kind of, um, mindset still affect you ever?

Bronte 30:16

Oh, absolutely. I mean, we lived together a couple of months ago before you moved out. And I remember coming downstairs in the morning and seeing you doing your activations and going, Oh, wow, if only I could get to that level. I'm just rolling out of bed. Look at me. Yeah, I mean, I think as I'm not going to, I'm going to gender it cause I just want to. So as, as women, I think we feel like we need to be 100 percent qualified for things before we put our hands up. And I think where I come into issues with running is that I have these benchmarks for what a good runner looks like in my head, and so I just think if I'm not there, then I don't get to. take myself seriously. Like, it's ridiculous that I would eat toast and fuel and, you know, think about all this stuff and take protein shakes and blah, blah, blah.

Phoebe 31:02

blah. So

Bronte 31:03

So yeah, it's, I mean, it's something I'm really trying to work on is casting aside all of these metrics or benchmarks, which are not mine at all, and figuring out what my own standards of good looks like both of

Phoebe 31:18

many more role models, like both

Bronte 31:20

you for example, but also there's other people, you know, slow running and talking about that a lot. And I think that that's amazing. And yeah, we're just getting varied sort of versions of what running can look like, which is good.

Phoebe 31:32

interesting. Can you tell us about something

Bronte 31:35

Yes. Um,

Phoebe 31:37

so, I'd

Bronte 31:37

so I'd say running is still teaching me this, um, but running is teaching me to think in years. So I have this tendency to like pick these goals from nowhere, you know, like I'm

Anna 31:51

going to

Bronte 31:52

Run this far this week and, you know, for no reason other than just it's further that I ran last week, you know, oh, I'll run a half marathon in two months. Just for kind of no reason other than it feels good to have like a goal. And so I think Running's taught me that.

Phoebe 32:06

it's

Bronte 32:06

to think in years. Like, I will at one point do a half marathon and a marathon, half marathon again, marathon, but that doesn't have to be for five years if I don't want it to be. It's a lifelong pursuit. And when you reframe it that way, it's ridiculous to be upping your mileage every week because like I have like 70 years ahead of me. Yeah. So just like calm down a little bit.

Anna 32:30

600 kilometers a week.

Bronte 32:31

Yeah, exactly. Like at some point you have to. Like, just plateau a little bit, right? And just enjoy it for what it is.

Anna 32:38

Yeah.

Phoebe 32:39

Yeah, that's so true. There's such a attitude in running of like constant improvement. And I think running rewards, it rewards that at the start. Cause when you first get into running, you're always improving and you kind of get hooked on that. Like, Oh, you just always get better when you're running, but you're completely right. That's not at all sustainable. And like to have a more long term view of like, Oh, I just want to be, you know, running, still running this much in five years time or whatever is a much more reasonable goal. Yeah,

Bronte 33:08

and almost more ambitious in a lot of ways. I don't think I've ever strung together more than a year. Have either of you ever?

Phoebe 33:13

struggled together more

Bronte 33:15

don't

Phoebe 33:16

about it? Do you remember? Oh, I'm trying to think. Wow.

Anna 33:21

Really exposing us enough.

Phoebe 33:22

it's wild. Yeah.

Bronte 33:23

right? You're like, it was amazing, and then it wasn't. And then it was amazing, and then it wasn't.

Anna 33:29

yeah, yeah, yeah,

Bronte 33:31

Crazy

Phoebe 33:31

such, it's very healthy, the long term thing, cause yeah. it's very easy to get your blinkers on when you're running and feeling good. Actually,

Bronte 33:37

Actually, uh, I think it was last week you did a kind of, Um, never, like, would you rather, sorry, not never have I

Phoebe 33:43

never have

Bronte 33:44

different game. Ha ha ha

Phoebe 33:45

never have I ever run for

Anna 33:47

things up a little bit.

Phoebe 33:48

injured. True. Um,

Bronte 33:49

up. True. Ooh. Um, but I was thinking, I would give up,

Phoebe 33:53

Um, and

Bronte 33:54

fun runs and competitions completely for just the chance to jog. Yeah. Forever. Um, and I think that's the attitude I'm trying to take into it now

Anna 34:03

what is the best running rack you've ever been given?

Bronte 34:06

Yeah, so I really struggle to do my rehab. I don't know if anyone else relates to that. I get back from the run. Yeah,

Phoebe 34:12

I definitely could

Bronte 34:13

just so tedious.

Anna 34:15

sitting

Phoebe 34:15

on the floor. Yeah.

Anna 34:17

one. You're pretty good.

Phoebe 34:19

Rehab? No.

Anna 34:20

What is that?

Phoebe 34:21

do

Bronte 34:21

what it is about rehab. It's just.

Phoebe 34:24

What's the name? Um Rehab. Not

Anna 34:28

Rehabilitation, I think.

Phoebe 34:29

Yeah.

Bronte 34:30

Does sound pretty clinical and gross. Um, but I was really struggling to do my rehab and my housemate Georgie, um, has reframed it for me as prehab. And so the idea is you always do your rehab before you run, and then you get it done. And it's true. I get a coffee and I go out into the courtyard and I do my little rehab exercises. Prehab and then I go for my run. I get back and I get in the shower. Great reframe. It's

Phoebe 34:54

Because they're probably good activations to do pre run anyway. So two birds, one stone. A little Bit of

Anna 35:02

I'm not sure if prehab does, but rehab is a noun that comes from the Latin prefix re meaning again. Habitare, meaning make fit. Also,

Phoebe 35:13

Also it doesn't actually mean rehabilitation.

Bronte 35:14

I

Anna 35:15

No, that's rehabilitation. Oh, sorry, I

Bronte 35:17

make this again.

Phoebe 35:19

was like, what?

Anna 35:19

like, make fit again.

Phoebe 35:21

Make fit again.

Anna 35:22

when something falls into disrepair and needs to be restored to a better condition, it needs

Phoebe 35:26

a

Bronte 35:27

it

Anna 35:27

rehabilitation.

Phoebe 35:28

Rehabilitation. Oh my gosh, we had the best, we had this quote yesterday, um, where Anna and I were at a, we were at a panel listening to some athletes talk and one of them had this quote, which I just loved, which was,

Bronte 35:41

um,

Phoebe 35:42

So you, let's say you're, you know, you've been injured and you're feeling pretty down about it and you're doing, you're like grinding through your rehab, prehab, and he's like, it can, when you're in the darkness, it can feel like you've been buried, but actually you've been planted.

Bronte 35:57

Yeah,

Anna 36:10

I

Bronte 36:11

think,

Phoebe 36:11

when he said it, it just,

Bronte 36:13

caught up by the darkness and the burying and the

Phoebe 36:17

Yeah, it's a bit, um, abstract, so you might struggle with it.

Bronte 36:23

I didn't get it.

Phoebe 36:25

this

Anna 36:26

is it sounds like you've been on so many amazing runs, like across the world. Like what is the best run? Like one single run that you've ever been on?

Phoebe 36:36

been

Bronte 36:37

question. Uh, okay. It's not a, um, it's not a very nature fueled run,

Anna 36:45

nature fueled

Bronte 36:46

so I would have thought it would be, but there's, um, in Jakarta, have no drive Sundays on this really long road, which runs for kilometres and kilometres through the city. it's, it must be a massive logistic problem. like logistics ordeal to like to stop all the cars, all the buses

Phoebe 37:03

Every week.

Bronte 37:04

Every Sunday for the entire morning from like 5am to lunchtime and thousands of people run and ride along this road and you've got like little carts set up on the side. It's basically a fun run but it's not a competition. People are just out, people are walking their kids along, people are walking their dogs, everyone's merry, people are selling fruit on the side of the road. It is amazing.

Anna 37:26

That is

Bronte 37:27

It's so cool.

Phoebe 37:28

been so cool to be part of

Anna 37:30

of, just like,

Phoebe 37:31

with everyone.

Bronte 37:32

kind of like dressed. It's kind of a combination of sort of like a,

Anna 37:35

of a

Phoebe 37:36

not

Bronte 37:36

like a Mardi Gras esque like level of hype and festival and kind of almost costume.'cause people are then matching running outfits and then a fun run.

Phoebe 37:44

That's amazing. Love it.

Anna 37:46

it. Love

Phoebe 37:47

so for our listener question this week, the tables are turning and Bronte's going to ask us a question. Um, Bronte, what, what would you like to know?

Bronte 37:58

So, I, the longest long run I've done in kind of recent years is about 90 minutes. Mm-Hmm. And I really wanna push it beyond that point, but I'm not really sure how to go about it. Like what are your tips for, I guess, extending beyond that?'cause it feels like a bit of a tipping, like a milestone for me. What are your tips for running further?

Phoebe 38:18

well, I think there's lots of different things to think about. I one would be fueling. So if you're running further, especially like beyond 90 minutes, you need to be fueling. You really want to be fueling during your runs. Do you, do you, do you ever have gels during your long runs? The time

Bronte 38:33

runs? No. You

Anna 38:34

you don't have them before, I mean, have toast

Bronte 38:37

I do have toast.

Anna 38:38

Oh, you do now.

Phoebe 38:38

Yeah. Yeah. Toast before. Great. Keep doing that, but you're going to need, you're going to want to integrate a gel in there somewhere. Um, at least one, if you're running for two hours. So maybe if you're running for two hours, I'd say aim for like two gels, have one every 40 minutes, roughly. Uh, that honestly, I know they don't taste good. They make long runs so much more enjoyable because you just, you feel energized the entire run. You don't hit a wall, you don't get zonked, you don't get like exhausted afterwards. Like you just, you maintain your energy levels and you can like feel really strong throughout your run. So that would be one tip.

Anna 39:15

tip. Um, I would also say like, don't jump up from 90 minutes to to two hours. Like I would try run for like 95 minutes. and just like slowly increase that.

Bronte 39:26

Confidence to

Phoebe 39:27

you ever do a long run with Frent? Well, I just I feel like as it gets longer and longer the risk of it getting like Not boring, but like a lot of people find solo long runs a bit boring and like repetitive or just like it's a long time to be trudging along. so if you can either have a friend to be doing part of it with try and think about incorporating more things to help it feel like enjoyable and engaging as well.

Bronte 39:56

Yeah, cool.

Anna 39:57

And then I think in terms of like recovering to be able to back it up the next week or sort of like feel as I would try to like capitalize, on all of the recovery stuff to ensure that you have a better chance of like feeling good the next day and like maybe wanting to do it again the next week. So, you know, like when you're finishing, maybe just doing some stretching, even if it's not straight away, but sort of like in the hour, like have a big. meal if you like feel like you're up to it. Like make sure you drink plenty of water for the rest of the day just so then

Bronte 40:30

I'm

Anna 40:31

day after you're not waking up and being like oh my gosh I feel awful I'm never doing that again. And

Phoebe 40:37

And I reckon, I know that you made a very strong case before for why you're running the same route, but I reckon. Long runs are a great opportunity to plan a new route, start somewhere different, run somewhere different, shake it up.

Bronte 40:49

cool. No worries.

Phoebe 40:50

Thanks so

Anna 40:52

so much for coming on today.

Phoebe 40:53

on today. Thank you so much.

Bronte 40:56

That is it for episode 19 of Cheeky Run Club. Um,

Phoebe 41:01

only have one episode left of season two.

Bronte 41:03

know. Which is crazy'cause I feel like once you get to an, like, into the episode twenties, you're kind of, you know what you're doing.

Phoebe 41:12

doing. I actually, you know what I reckon? We should stop saying what episode number it is after episode 20. Because what I realised, I don't think anyone cares except for us.

Bronte 41:23

anyone can. I think once we get

Phoebe 41:30

think once we get to 20, that's great. And we can call out the milestone episodes, 50, 100, etc. But do people need to know that it's episode

Bronte 41:38

82? and a

Phoebe 41:42

Yeah.

Bronte 41:43

Um, but alas, we're still in the numbered episodes. So thank you for listening to episode 19. Please follow us. On social media at Cheeky Run Club, please subscribe wherever you're listening to your podcasts, and we can't wait to be in your ear. Hulls next week.

Phoebe 42:02

Nice!

Bronte 42:02

bye.

Phoebe 42:05

a

Bronte 42:06

it

Anna 42:07

rehabilitation.