The Q&A Files
The Q&A Files drops A Wellness Explosion
💥 BOOM! Attention Wellness Warriors. The game changer you have been waiting for is finally here. Say hello to “The Q&A Files,” where wellness meets revolution and your questions lead to new discoveries. Spearheaded by Trisha Jamison, your host, a Board Certified Functional Nutritionist. Cohost Dr. Jeff Jamison, a Board Certified Family Physician, and featured guest, Tony Overbay, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. This podcast blends three diverse perspectives to tackle your questions on health, nutrition, medicine, mental wellness, and relationships. Dive into a world of expert insights and actionable advice, all sparked by your curiosity. Tune in, ignite your wellness journey, and join the Wellness Warrior community.
The Q&A Files
16. Unraveling Mental Health: A Guide to Medications, Emotional Baselines, and Strong Relationship Boundaries
Embark on a journey with us as we unravel the mysteries of mental health with the sage insights of Dr. Jeff Jamison. He dissects the intricacies of different mental illness, untangling the web of medication management and the importance of an accurate diagnosis. As the discussion unfolds, he highlights the pivotal role of sleep patterns and the hazards of frequent medication switches—insights that could be your beacon in the foggy realm of psychiatric care.
Are you concerned about starting psychiatric medications, or struggling to communicate with your healthcare provider? Lean in as we lay bare the contrasts of treatments for ADHD versus depression and anxiety, and the game-changing concept of 'emotional baseline theory'. This episode isn't just a conversation—it's a guiding light for those hesitant about medication, offering the promise of elevated emotional health and the tools to harness the full potential of therapy. Tony Overbay adds depth to our dialogue, bringing to life the dedication required for patient care and addressing the common fears and reservations that often accompany the path to mental wellness.
Finally, imagine reshaping your relationships through the art of healthy boundaries and unwavering respect. Tony and I delve into personal anecdotes and professional experiences, providing a roadmap for navigating the terrain of self-care and the demarcation lines of personal space, especially when facing emotionally immature or narcissistic personalities. Discover the transformative power of understanding your own emotional needs, and the courage to connect with those who truly value your presence—lessons that may just be the compass you need in the intricate dance of relationships.
Send your questions to trishajamisoncoaching@gmail.com!
Hello and welcome to the Q&A Files, the ultimate health and wellness playground. I'm your host, tricia Jamison, a board certified functional nutritionist and lifestyle practitioner, ready to lead you through a world of health discoveries. Here we dive into tapestry of disease prevention, to nutrition, exercise, mental health and building strong relationships, all spiced with diverse perspectives. It's not just a podcast, it's a celebration of health, packed with insights and a twist of fun. Welcome aboard the Q&A Files, where your questions ignite our vibrant discussions and lead to a brighter you. Hello, friends, so glad to have you here with us today for another episode of the Q&A Files. I'm your host, tricia Jamison. With me today are my esteemed co-host, dr Jeff Jamison, a board certified family physician, and Tony Overbay, a licensed marriage and family therapist. So glad to have you, gentlemen, here with me today.
Speaker 3:Glad to be here. Good to be here.
Speaker 1:Last week we kind of talked about how cold it was, and I think the lowest it got here was minus 12. Wow, and unfortunately our hot water in our kitchen froze and is still frozen. But we are expecting lots of snow and warmer temperatures, so we're happy about that. Tricia, can I?
Speaker 3:tell you, I grew up in Utah for the most part, and so I know it's cold and snow. And then I had a daughter we were taking to college in Rexburg, idaho, and it was the first time I had experienced negative degrees. And so I just thought oh, I think it'll be fun to go on a run and negative something. Oh, my gosh, and not so much. I didn't realize when you read in. Maybe Dr Jeff can say I don't know if I crystallized my just cavity, or it hurts so bad and I realized I don't want to do that anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and you'll freeze up the nose hairs as well. Oh for sure, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we learned about that on Sunday. To kick off today's episode, here's a thought-provoking quote from Carl Sagan. Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. I think this quote beautifully sets the stage for our journey of discovery and learning. So now let's dive into some questions from friends near and far, and I think, jeff, you actually have a great question that you'd like to hear.
Speaker 2:I do. This is from Steve, and Steve writes in and he says I have a mental illness and I have been on multiple meds but I'm still not doing well. What should I do? You know, this is a really challenging question because, as you might expect, at this time of the year there's a lot of mental illness happening. We see a fair amount of people that are just sort of dropping off the map and we're trying to help them get better. But his question is more specific to when he's had multiple tries at medical management and he also he didn't mention but if he's had counseling, that would be an important piece to know about. So I don't have any more than that question, but I have some thoughts about it I'd like to share.
Speaker 2:So, first of all, in approaching a person who has had multiple meds and still isn't doing well which happens frequently, by the way there's a very important piece that is very likely missing, and that's the diagnosis is probably incorrectly made. So the diagnosis of depression, anxiety, bipolar disease, whatever trauma or other issues that have happened to a person they may not have completely come clean with. So probably the most important thing to do with Steve is to ask your provider and most family docs internal medicine docs can handle basic psychiatric illness as well, so just remember that you also can start there rather than waiting for a psychiatrist, which may take a long time. So what the provider should or could do is first get a very detailed history. What is the problem that you're experiencing? How do you feel? How long has it been going on? What makes it better? What makes it worse? How is your sleep? And sleep is so important when it comes to mental illness that if you're not sleeping or you're sleeping too much, those can be issues that really cause problems. So knowing about that is really important. Also, if you had pain or chronic pain issues, if you have trauma either physical or emotional, or any psychosexual issues as well, those can affect you and they may be contributing to your mental illness.
Speaker 2:Also, other medical issues, like if a person has thyroid disease or if they have a problem with their joints or if there's a rheumatologic issue those can also cause long-term problems that can cause mental illness, including depression and just loss of desire to move forward in life. So the first thing I would recommend a person do is make sure that they get a very good history and then start in a laboratory exam too. I'd make sure that your kidney function, liver function, electrolytes, blood sugar, thyroid and anything else that is pertinent to your history is checked, and if those things come clean and you're doing very well, then it's time to consider different medical management, as well as maybe getting a different counselor, coach or other help through this in the form of another person, because these are things that we cannot do by ourselves. It's really important to remember that doing it ourselves it just doesn't work very well and most men when they have problems, they wait till they're really doing poorly before they ask for help. Women are a little better at that, just in general.
Speaker 2:So if a person has been on multiple meds, it's been shown that the first one or two medications that a person tries are usually the first best ones to try, and then after that, if meds are changed, it gets worse and worse and worse as far as the way that the reactions to or the effect from the medicines. So it's really important to do some, possibly some genetic testing and I don't know if you knew about this, tony, but there's a gene test called gene site and there are several other that you take a swab of the inside of the mouth and that can give you a really good look at what medications in these categories work best for you specifically.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Dr Jeff, I was going to ask you is that something that you regularly do with your patients, or people that are hearing this would want to then bring that up, Because I've had some clients talk about having that done and I don't know what. I don't know about it and I've been curious why doesn't everybody do that?
Speaker 2:Well, it's a very good question, but the main reason is usually cost. It's a fairly expensive test, but it is very helpful. Most insurance companies cover it and if you don't have insurance, there's a cost cap on them, and so I think it's around $300. But if your insurance covers it, it's quite a lot more. Anyway, so that's a piece, and the other part is because of different practitioners' biases. Sometimes they feel like their understanding of the patient is better than the gene test that they can get, which is it happens. Sometimes us providers, we get a little full of ourselves and sometimes we think we know better than anything.
Speaker 3:No, really A doctor.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes it happens Okay, but what happens is is you get a report that not only tells you multiple classes of medications and whether it's in the gene green zone, the gene yellow or caution zone or in the red zone, to avoid, it'll give you those things in multiple classes, including antidepressants, anti-anxiety medications and many more. The other thing that's really helpful for this is it gives an understanding on the MTHFR gene, which tells us about folate and folate metabolism. There's normal folate metabolism, there's intermediate folate metabolism, where the genes don't work quite right, and then ones where it doesn't metabolize folate at all, and that can be significant in a person's mental illness if their folate isn't properly managed by their body.
Speaker 3:Because they're not absorbing the medication. Is that what I Well?
Speaker 2:they're not absorbing folate, and folate is a really important substance in your brain chemistry to be able to make your brain work properly Gotcha, and if that's not correct then it becomes a real problem. So these are really cool tools that can do a wonderful job of helping us guide our therapy, Because otherwise it's kind of dare I say it educated guessing on the correct medication for a person, and so it's difficult. But there's a lot of good things that we can do before doing those tests, and it isn't really the right thing to do until you've had to change medicines two or three times.
Speaker 3:Hey, can I ask you a question, dr Jeff, about the? Yeah, because what I'm always fascinated by is I will have people that they're on an antidepressant or an anti-anxiety medication and they will forget to take it for a couple of days and they'll take it again, forget to take it, take it again, and I'm always so curious about how significant is that. I mean, obviously we want them to take it all the time and for the medication I'm on for my ADHD, I can't wait to take it because it has been a game changer. So I'm a little surprised sometimes when people aren't as consistent, but I don't know what it's like to be dim.
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, it matters which medicine that you're talking about.
Speaker 2:When you're talking ADHD medicines, that yeah, the medicine that you take today works today and it ends by mid-afternoon and you might have to even dose again. So those are normal things for ADHD. But when it comes to antidepressants medicines called SSRIs, for instance, or SNRIs you don't have to know what those mean. But what those do is they take between two and six weeks to be a full capacity in a person's bloodstream. So if you take it intermittently, it just takes longer for it to work and you will know also right away if something is not right. For instance, if a person is diagnosed with depression and then they take a medicine like Prozac or Zoloft and there are many others, and they take it for a few days and then they just go kind of crazy. They don't sleep, they're not able to make good decisions, they basically become manic in the bipolar sense, and that is because the diagnosis was incorrect. When the diagnosis is bipolar disease, then bipolar medicines work and antidepressants sometimes do not. So we have to be very careful.
Speaker 1:Well, and I wish that our son would be as excited to take his ADHD medicine as you, Tony it only took me until my mid-40s, you know. That was all that's right.
Speaker 2:That's what Dr Steve you know this is a complicated process. Don't give up. Please go up and see your provider, whether it's a family doc or nurse practitioner that does meds, whatever it is, make sure that you give them all the information. And also that includes drugs of abuse. Please make sure you disclose those things to that person. Don't be embarrassed just because it all makes comes in as a part of the puzzle. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow, well said, I had a client once that and I'm making light of this, but it was unfortunate but he finally started to open up to me about paranoid delusions and so then he was going to go have a psychiatric exam and then he did and he came back and he let me know that he said, yeah, they ended up not seeing if I need I don't need anything. And I said I'm kind of surprised and and he's like, well, I didn't want him to think I was crazy, so I I wasn't honest on the test and I just thought that was really interesting.
Speaker 3:It happens a lot.
Speaker 2:Does it Okay? Yes, it happens a lot and and you figure it out after a little while. It takes two or three visits sometimes to figure out if somebody's you know not giving the full story, but that's where the the history or talking to the person about and and making sure that they have all the information out there. And I can tell you that a lot of people that have paranoia and other nausea and other problems that often their whole problem is marijuana, and we live in a marijuana legal state, so a lot of people don't bring it up. And same thing with alcohol. They don't bring it up and so you have to ask them.
Speaker 1:Very good, that was very well articulated and I loved how you explained Steve's question and very, very helpful for, I'm sure, a lot of people that may be here. Thank you.
Speaker 2:I hope it's helpful. We really want to make sure that people have a sense of that we care about them and that we want them to get the best possible care.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, hey, Dr Jeff can.
Speaker 3:I can I throw out? I just put some content out about a and I'm owning the fact that this is my thoughts and opinions and it's about because I get people that often don't want to take medication but they're so down that then I think that it's a medication that would help them, and so I throw out my, my emotional baseline theory, which is something that I have made up but I've been talking about for 15 years. But it's just so. When somebody's on top of the world or things are going well, their baseline of emotions is high and everything that they're, they're making decisions from there, and then it's life kind of life's all over them and they start to feel down. Maybe they go through a, they're going through a rough patch of medically or something's happened to somebody in their family, or they're having challenges in their, their relationships or all that stuff, so their emotional baseline dips, and so then I the way I like to say it is that sometimes they can't then access the tools that they they would need their emotional baseline to be a little higher to get to.
Speaker 3:So I believe sometimes a medication will help them get their baseline high enough to then access the tools and then which will raise their baseline higher and then one of two things happens. If they say they don't want to be on medication, then great, they have the tools. Their baseline might dip a little bit. But I really feel like once somebody gets there, then they think, well, this is nice, why would I not want to necessarily take the medication? So I have no scientific basis off of that, but I what I started noticing is that when people were saying, yeah, I don't really want to to go to the doctor, get on medication, it's when they're so down that their baseline so low, that they're not in a good spot to make decisions. So absolutely true. I say, okay, I've seen poke holes in that, but I've been putting that out.
Speaker 2:That's absolutely true, and and one of the problems that I find is that if a person is really in need of starting a medication so they can get started and, as you say, access those tools, they a lot of times are, are resistant, and understandably so, and then they say, okay, well, I'll go on a medicine, but I'm only going to be on it for a week, okay, or I'm only going to do it for a month, or whatever the case, and I tell them, I say then don't do it, right, because because, first of all, you didn't get here in a month and a medicine isn't going to change you into somebody that you're not in a week, and so you've got to allow that.
Speaker 2:Now the other problem is, if a person is really down, sometimes raising their emotional baseline can actually make them. If they are already sort of suicidal or homicidal, it can make those, give them enough energy to be able to act on those feelings. And so I give people understanding that they need to be aware that if you and I check on suicidality and have you had thoughts, do you have a plan in place? And people are pretty open when they have one, that they're pretty open to telling you, which I think is kind of amazing. I think most people would kind of want to avoid that whole topic, but they don't. They just let you know. Yeah, I've thought about it a lot, and so so I explained to them that this is a thing that they need to be careful on when they start a medication, because they may get better enough where they have the energy to act on those emotions.
Speaker 3:Hey, you know it's funny, dr Jeff you're about. You validated me and now I will validate you, because the absolute origin story of my emotional baseline theory came from a doctor who was in a bad relationship and I was a therapist and he just wanted to feel heard and his spouse wanted nothing to do with hearing about his career. So then I was supposed to ask him a question at the end of every session and I drove in one morning and I didn't have a question prepared and I'd heard an antidepressant ad on the radio where they said all the little fast things may cause this, may cause this the morning was make us suicidal ideation. So I went into him and said how does that work? And then he told me that and he's the one who laid out the concept. I still give him credit to this day. But he talked about growing up in a cold place, and now there's our tie into the beginning of the episode today, where it was so cold it couldn't snow and it's called the Anadonia, I guess.
Speaker 3:Not the one you'd go to the state yeah, yeah Right, the land of Anadonia. So by Narnia or whatever.
Speaker 3:He talked about like he said you know, sometimes his patients would be so down, they're so flat that they can't even get out of bed. And he said if you lift their head up and put the antidepressant in, then after about two or three weeks then they'll lift their head up and go oh, things are really bad. And yeah, and he said and that's where that whole theory came from was their baseline goes up through this section of where they're like when it was so flat, they don't care about anything. Then all of a sudden it's like I don't like where I'm at and the suicidal ideation comes. And so then that's where I thought, oh man, I got to get that person up through that into this higher emotional baseline. So we got mutual validation.
Speaker 2:That's the origin story. Wow, it's a very interesting development on it. It's something that if you don't share to and I like to try and talk to an emotional support person through this time as well, especially if they're really low, because that can be an issue and that you have to make sure that they are careful with where they are- Right, yeah, for sure, excellent, okay, tony.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I want to joke with me to say then, hey, can that count as mine, because we're talking about the emotional baseline stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 3:No, but I've got a great one from a, I'm assuming, a lady named Kate, and Kate's is one where she just said she's heard me talk recently about boundary versus ultimatum and I think this is really interesting because I've talked about people setting boundaries before and and it's one of those where I just I thought I knew really what a boundary was, and and then, the more I dug into that, when I'm dealing with the world of the emotionally immature, I've got these, these rules of interacting where, ironically, you start by raising your emotional baseline. Self-care isn't selfish. You got to be in a good spot to interact with somebody. And when you're in an unhealthy relationship and the second thing I talk about is get your PhD in gaslighting and then, third, as you get out of unproductive conversations because they, they are maddening. Fourth, as you set healthy boundaries and I would always say and a boundary is a challenge to the emotionally immature or narcissistic person. And then the fifth is you'll never give that other person the aha moment or the epiphany. It has to come from within.
Speaker 3:But then, when I would say that the boundary is gonna be challenged, I ended up doing an episode on one of my podcasts where I I just said okay, I really, really want to understand boundaries because I I think I have the I Know what I know about them. And then I ran into this, this description that talked about that a Boundary is a me thing and an ultimatum is what I'm making it a you thing, and it was like the sky's parted. So If I'm saying you need to not Raise your voice in front of the kids, that's an ultimatum. And then if you're dealing with somebody that's emotionally immature, now you just told them what to do. And what does a little kid do when you say you know you need to clean your room, they're like that's the last thing I'll be doing so I yeah so
Speaker 3:right. I had this kind of like moment where it was a oh my goodness, I. I think I've confused often an ultimatum with a boundary, so then the boundary is a me thing. If you raise your voice in front of the kids, then I will take them and we will go to a hotel, a very lavish one and use your credit card Like that would be the boundary. The ultimatum is you need to stop doing this, or if you do this, I'm gonna get mad, you know, and you, and that's where you basically there's hand of that person, your your buttons to push, because now they know what's important to you. But then boundaries are hard, because it is a me thing, because I I'll still go back to this concept of but if I'm gonna leave, that person isn't gonna say, man, I admire you for sticking to your boundaries. No, they're gonna, they're gonna push more buttons. Oh, walking away, you must not care. You know that sort of thing. But that concept of, yeah, boundary versus ultimatum, I think it's fascinating.
Speaker 1:I, I really appreciate that actually. So tell me a little bit more. When you are in a position and Somebody's giving you that boundary, what would be the mature response?
Speaker 3:Can you think of a scenario? I love your question.
Speaker 1:Say you've got someone that Doesn't want a person around their children.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You recognize that they don't want them around your kids. And If you come from a healthy place and you recognize, okay, I'm not sure the reason that that is in place, but I'm going to respect that boundary. But when you're coming from a place you know, when you're immature, yes, you want to push that and you want to go against that and do things anyway. But I guess my question is when you're in a healthy place, you respect those boundaries, but then they seem to get tighter.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I'm a restrictive and so it's a good question it doesn't even matter if you are.
Speaker 1:I feel like the respect piece has kind of gone out the window and now there's more of a control, and they're now controlling more of what they want, rather than where it even started so in this situation, it makes you wonder who's the emotional immature one and that's well.
Speaker 3:That's so well said to dr Jeff, and it's fun. I just pulled up a text that I would and shared with somebody a few days ago, where there there's a couple I'm working with and there's an intentional separation happening, which is is the thing when it's intentional, and that means they're both still working on things together. So then the the husband had reached out to me and just said, okay, and he's doing great, I mean so he's using that as an opportunity to sit with discomfort and be better and follow through and provide this emotional safety for his spouse, and and so I really believe him. But he had reached out and said, you know, he just said, is this a bad thing for me to then say, alright, I respect this boundary of this intentional separation? And they had a two-week agreement, but then at one point there was a holiday and he had been sleeping in a, let's just say, hypothetical downstairs and so they weren't letting their kids know kids are younger and so they're just they're dealing with this as the couple right now. So then he said, I want to respect your boundary, but I also don't want to have to deal with the kids. So I want to then see what it would look like if I, if I just you know relax the boundary for a night. So then I just said okay.
Speaker 3:So here's the thing is that I said there's two versions of this. One is that I'm saying I Respect your boundary, except for when I really kind of don't want to, and so that's more of that Kind of from an immature standpoint, because then she may still feel like, because what got them to this place is she has to say okay, and then he feels better and she feels like she just compromised her boundaries again. But I said okay, but if you are coming from a place where now you realize for the guy that you're not trying to manipulate, you're not trying to control and you're not just trying to seek validation, then you're coming from a place of confidence, and then that's okay to make that request, make that bid. You know I will respect your boundary, but but I would love you know, I'm curious about something I would love to have a connected conversation, a mature conversation, and then at that point and I was just writing about this then there's three things that happen. One is, if they say no, then you accept their, their response, with a hundred percent Acceptance and love, because you showed up in your best self, you made an emotional bid, and now it's a them thing.
Speaker 3:You know, I kind of said a second scenario would be that then they have made their decision. If you still want to have that relationship, then it every opportunity becomes even a bigger one for you to sit with discomfort, self-confront and grow. So I'm gonna notice I still want a relationship with them. I may at times even still, you know, send a card or something, and I have to accept the fact that they may reject it, and then that's another opportunity for me to then know, though, that I'm coming from a good place. You know I, you know I'm not trying to control, manipulate or that sort of thing. And then the third option is then I have to be willing to to abandon or leave the relationship, not from a place of immaturity or anger, but it's because from a place of like, self-love, and I deserve to be in mutually reciprocal relationships. And so this is this is doing me damage, you know, because and that's the part that's hard, because it'll feel selfish, but it's more about, you know, self-compassion, self-love. So I don't know if that kind of answers.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, so my client has just really been kind of reeling how to deal with the situation and she feels like she's showing up in a way that is mature and productive. But now everything that is being said or done is, of course, being taken wrong because they're they're in a bad space, and so I appreciate kind of the ladder and that is sometimes you need to take a step back and kind of reestablish or kind of take a look at what is this relationship doing for?
Speaker 1:me how is this helping and allowing me, or you know, for her to move on, and so that's kind of what I've been helping her through, because she so badly doesn't want to separate or cut ties or she feels like that that will make things worse. But yeah, so this, this was helpful, I think.
Speaker 3:Well, can I tell you what I I hope and I'm sorry I don't want to this is I love this stuff so much.
Speaker 1:I think this is super good.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I was doing I've got this other podcast about ADHD with this. She's a great, she's an author named Julie Lee and this is out. It's out there.
Speaker 3:So it's not like I'm saying something from behind the scenes, but at one point she was talking about you know, I just I'm, I'm a blunt person, I just want to deal with things. I don't want to sweep it under the rug, I can't be fake. I just want to deal with things and I want to have that conversation. And I was like, oh man, do I say this or do I not? And then I validate our man, julie. That sounds amazing.
Speaker 3:But I said, you know, to be honest, that is a lot of I. I don't want, you know, like this. I don't want to cut ties. I don't like the way that this feels. I think we can work this out. I feel like I'm coming from a different place. So you know. So, with Julie, I was saying that's a lot of me stuff, which is okay. But when you kind of step back, it's like, oh yeah, and it's okay for me to. I do know I'm in a better spot and I don't want to cut this off and I do want to remain. You know I would love to have this relationship. Yeah, honestly, you know, from a pure differentiated standpoint, those are all me issues and they're okay. But but sometimes if I, it is still me wanting them to then do something for me, because she's making it more about her, the kind of cool version.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'll say that at least you know yeah, okay, interesting, I hadn't.
Speaker 1:I didn't see that one.
Speaker 3:I didn't until, literally, julie's saying this and I was like, oh, wow, this is pretty cool, like I'm having a little moment there Because I know I've been the one that I used to say, because, you know, we all eventually make things back to us, I think, in a lot of situations. And when she was saying it I thought, oh, I remember being the guy that I would go give talks and say, you know, and then I realized that my wife and I don't want to have to sit with the discomfort for the next eight hours. So I would say, hey, are we okay? Because then we could go ahead and get over it. I'd never asked her, what's that like for her? And then I would say, we're good, right, and you know, she I think her only answer was uh-huh.
Speaker 1:There's so many of my clients that I work with that say exactly. What you're talking about is like oh wow, well, that that's really helpful. That kind of opens, I think, a whole new perspective on. She's really uncomfortable with the situation. She's constantly apologizing, trying to make things right and better, but clearly it's not helping the situation at all because they're in control.
Speaker 3:They are in control and she, if she's, that lowers her emotional baseline. And now she's spending or burning emotional calories about a relationship that is only giving that other person power, control, then the best thing that one can do is then accept. You know, take in without defense. Accept it doesn't mean that then something's wrong with me. It's like, okay, that has taught me now that I deserve to be in conversations or relationships with people that are willing to see me, cause, you know, now we can all blame this back on her parents somehow, you know for sure.
Speaker 3:It's like okay my parents didn't see me, you know. So then I'm going to, I'm going to make sure I will force you to see me, instead of me realizing oh wait, I, I'm okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's very good. That's very cool. I appreciate that. Great insight, Sony Great insight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that'll be really helpful.
Speaker 3:That's where I want to say like oh, I've always known this, you know Right.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's why, when this was brought to my attention and I you know, this has been an issue for a while for her and I've been trying to build her up but not realizing that it's actually probably not helping, because I think you get to a place that you can only get kind of beat up so much and you finally have to say, okay, this isn't healthy for me.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:Somehow I need to make a shift and she has. She's done different things to make that shift show up differently, but it still hasn't worked. I mean, and like I said, those boundaries keep getting stricter and tighter around her and she continues to just be okay with it.
Speaker 3:Well, in the immature, I hate to say, but they need another human being to interact with to know they exist. So that's the part. That's difficult is the more that the the she's interacting. It's almost like she's saying, hey, here's more fuel, and to her detriment, but to them they get like look at this person still saying and doing these things. Can you believe it? You know, and that's what's unfortunate Right.
Speaker 1:Well, and literally everything that is said from my client to this person it's always meant was so much resistance. And when she shares what she writes to her, I'm like, oh my gosh, that's so beautiful and so heartfelt. And then the response is like oh my gosh, I didn't see that one coming. That's a little bit crazy and and even if it is, you know, the most genuine heartfelt message, it, just because of the space they're in it, can never be accepted in a positive light. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think we're starting to see that and this is an important relationship for her, and so you know, we've been trying to hold on and I I think that exactly what you just said is just so powerful and unfortunately, you can't miss someone until they're not there. And I was going to say that, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then the emotional consistency. That person is now going to raise their baseline because they're not burning calories and energy, trying to get somebody to care about them, that that isn't at this time and then so meanwhile they're over here being and doing raising that baseline so that then, if this person it's not, they're doing it so that this person will return into their life. But if that person ends up getting out of this unhealthy relationship, you know now the other person has done such good work on themselves that then they're an incredibly safe place and they will meet that person with empathy. It won't be a place of like yeah, I tried, you know, told you so, but it's like man, I am so grateful. Is that person now in a better place?
Speaker 1:And I think that that's where she's at.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:She's actually in a really good place, I think. To make other decisions earlier, I think it would have been harder, but I think exactly what you just said is right on.
Speaker 2:So it sounds like your it sounds like your client and the person that she's working with the relationship on is that both of them have been trying really hard to manage the other person's emotions.
Speaker 1:Very much so. Yeah, that's good. I believe that to be true. Yeah, all right. Well, this was fantastic.
Speaker 3:I really took your time there. I was going to try to not take time and I took your time, Trisha.
Speaker 1:This is. This is the perfect amount of time and these things needed to be discussed and gone through, and I think that this is great. I just loved it. But I just wanted to thank you both so much for your insight, your expertise, just all that you bring here on the Q&A files, and I can't wait for next week's episode, and I have a great question from Shelby talking about gut health, so we'll address that first thing. Thank you so much for tuning in today and we will see you next week.
Speaker 3:Bye, everybody, thank you Bye bye.
Speaker 1:Thanks for tuning in to the Q&A files, Delighted to share today's gems of wisdom with you. Your questions light up our show, fueling the engaging dialogues that make our community extra special. For sending your questions to Trisha Jameson Coaching at gmailcom. Your curiosity is our compass. Please hit subscribe, spread the word and let's grow the circle of insight and community together. I'm Trisha Jameson signing off. Stay curious, keep thriving and keep smiling, and I'll catch you on the next episode.
