The Q&A Files
The Q&A Files drops A Wellness Explosion
💥 BOOM! Attention Wellness Warriors. The game changer you have been waiting for is finally here. Say hello to “The Q&A Files,” where wellness meets revolution and your questions lead to new discoveries. Spearheaded by Trisha Jamison, your host, a Board Certified Functional Nutritionist. Cohost Dr. Jeff Jamison, a Board Certified Family Physician, and featured guest, Tony Overbay, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. This podcast blends three diverse perspectives to tackle your questions on health, nutrition, medicine, mental wellness, and relationships. Dive into a world of expert insights and actionable advice, all sparked by your curiosity. Tune in, ignite your wellness journey, and join the Wellness Warrior community.
The Q&A Files
8. Regenerative Revelations: Dr. Jeff Jamison Unlocks the Healing Potential of Stem Cell Therapy
Unlock the secrets of stem cell therapy as we sit down with the formidable Dr. Jeff Jamison, whose expertise in joint rejuvenation is revolutionizing the field of regenerative medicine. Prepare to be fascinated by our in-depth conversation that journeys through the landscape of pluripotent cells and their astonishing ability to regenerate damaged tissues. With Dr. Jeff's guidance, we navigate the intricacies of this innovative therapy, contrasting it with traditional joint replacement surgeries and shedding light on the hope it offers for not just joint health, but systemic conditions too. This episode promises to be a treasure trove of knowledge for anyone intrigued by the future of medicine and the incredible potential of our own bodies to heal.
Experience firsthand the powerful narratives of those whose lives have been transformed by stem cell therapy, including the inspiring tale of an octogenarian golfer who found his way back to the greens post-treatment. Dr. Jeff doesn't just share success stories; he also demystifies the practical elements of the therapy, from its cost to the procedure itself, alongside a candid look at the regulatory environment. Join us and Dr. Jeff Jamison for a conversation that's as enlightening as it is hopeful, perfect for anyone interested in the crossroads of innovation, science, and well-being.
Please send us questions to: trishajamisoncoaching@gmail.com
More questions about joint rejuvenation:
https://jamisonfamilymedicine.com/joint-rejuvenation/
Hello and welcome to the Q&A Files, the ultimate health and wellness playground. I'm your host, tricia Jamison, a board certified functional nutritionist and lifestyle practitioner, ready to lead you through a world of health discoveries. Here we dive into tapestry of disease prevention, to nutrition, exercise, mental health and building strong relationships, all spiced with diverse perspectives. It's not just a podcast, it's a celebration of health, packed with insights and a twist of fun. Welcome aboard the Q&A Files, where your questions ignite our vibrant discussions and lead to a brighter you. Hello, wellness warriors. Welcome back to another fascinating episode that's sure to ignite your curiosity and passion for health innovation. I'm your host, tricia Jamison, and today we're excusing Tony as he's out saving the world one client at a time and actually there's a little bit of true to that statement, huh, dr Jamison.
Speaker 2:Yep, sure is.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, however, I'm joined by the remarkable Dr Jeff Jamison, a board certified family physician with a special interest in rejuvenating not just our lives but the various cells within us. Dr Jeff, I'm so excited to share with our friends today this very intriguing and exciting topic. But before we dive deep into the world of medicine, let's kick things off with a little celebration. What's something you're celebrating today?
Speaker 2:I'm celebrating that I'm here with you and that we are married for 36 years and that we are just having the time of our lives doing this podcast and that we've had some new interest in the podcast itself and we've had new listeners and I think it's just really cool. I'm so excited about it. This is really fun.
Speaker 1:Well, I love that. That is so inspiring, dr Jeff, speaking of rejuvenation and new beginnings and even just old. You know some of where we've come from and how far we've gone as far as just being married for so long but I think that that's a perfect segue in today's groundbreaking topic stem cells.
Speaker 2:But before we go into that, you didn't give us a celebration.
Speaker 1:Oh well, my celebration is. I spent a week at our two daughters and one was moving to Utah from Spokane and another is getting married, and so we went to wedding dress shopping and that was just super fun.
Speaker 2:So that's fun, yep, and she looks beautiful in the dress too.
Speaker 1:Yes, so that is. That is really fun. So let's start with some questions. We've had some very amazing questions that have come in, because you kind of talked a little bit about stem cell a few episodes ago and I just thought it would be a great topic for today so we can focus on what is stem cell and why is it so groundbreaking and how does it all work. Dr Jeff, you've been at the forefront of this, focusing on joint rejuvenation through stem cell therapy. Let's focus on some questions that we've had from some of our listeners. With the buzz around stem cells growing louder and louder each day, is no wonder that we have been flooded with inquiries about this revolutionary approach to medicine. Dr Jeff, are you ready to help us demystify stem cell therapy and share your expertise on how it's transforming lives?
Speaker 2:I'm excited to do so. This is a really cool technology and something that I've been working on for the past almost seven years, so it's been really fun to see the early development, as well as the current data and the current results that we're getting with this therapy.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. So let's start pulling back some of these layers on this fascinating subject. Here is a question that starts with let's start from the very beginning. Dr Jeff, could you please enlighten us on what stem cells are and why they've become such a buzzword lately?
Speaker 2:Yes, of course, now stem cells are. The other name for it in medical terms is pluripotent cells. Now, pluripotent cells means that they can turn into whatever cells they need to become. For instance, they can become bone or cartilage or ligaments or tendons, muscle even, and lots of other tissue, and that can happen throughout the body. And because those cells are so versatile, they are really important for the rejuvenation and healing of our bodies, and if we can put a concentration of those cells right where we need it, we get almost magical improvement of that area. And now, why has it become a buzzword, though? The thing is is that people are trying to capitalize on this and the stem cells almost magical rejuvenation properties, but they're doing them in different ways, and the different ways aren't all the same, and so that's why I wanted to make sure that that part was demystified a little bit, so that you knew what the difference was between one so-called stem cell, which may not be stem cell at all, and others.
Speaker 1:Excellent. Thank you so much for that great answer there. So number two is what sparked your interest in joint rejuvenation using stem cells?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a great question. For many years I've been practicing medicine for 25 years and, oh, 15, 16 years into practice I recognized that I was really limited on the tools that I had to help people, especially when it came to joint health. There was Tylenol and Advil to help with arthritis and other pains of the joints and other muscle areas. There were problems that we could help with physical therapy and sometimes cortisone, other more strong narcotic painkillers, things like that, and none of them were really helping anybody. Nothing was ever getting better. They were just placated while they slowly got worse, and I found that that was something that I just didn't like. I felt like, again, my hands were tight and I didn't have any good tools to give people.
Speaker 2:So I started a search and I started to look into more of the avant-garde or the things that were on the cutting edge of medicine and wanted to see what there was out there that we could do differently and maybe actually help people more and have their joints last longer than they would have otherwise.
Speaker 2:I was fortunate to turn on to a physician here in Spokane who was using a technique where he drew bone marrow from the back of the hip around the spine in the back, right at those little dimples in the back, you know, and he was drawing the bone marrow from there. And then what he was doing is he was spinning that into a concentrate and then injecting into the spine where he was doing spinal surgery for instance, spinal fusions or other areas where people were having terrible back trouble and he was finding great results in that people were healing faster. Their fusions if they were trying to do that were happening more quickly and they didn't have to depend on hardware to hold them up and their bone would rejuvenate so much faster. And I was like, wow, this is great.
Speaker 1:Wow so interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I felt like, well, I wonder if this could work in other joints of the body. So we talked and this gentleman his name is Dr Antoine Tomay, he's a orthopedic spine surgeon here in Spokane, washington, and he's from Lebanon. I don't even know why we have him here in Spokane. He really is on the top notch of every orthopedic spine surgeon's list of people that if I could be like, I would be like Dr Tomay.
Speaker 2:Anyway he's super good. The results that he gets are amazing, and not in small part because of the fact that he's using this rejuvenative therapy. And so I went to him and I asked him myself how could I do this and could I put this into joints like knees or shoulders or hips, ankles, elbows, and have it improve the function and decrease people's pain? And he went. You know, I've seen some studies on this, and so he hooked me up with some people that had some good information on it and where there was actual rejuvenation shown by imaging studies where they would place this stem cell or concentrated bone marrow in a joint like the knee and then they could go back with MRI or ultrasound and demonstrate thickening of the cartilage. And I'm like what? Really, that is amazing.
Speaker 1:Seriously.
Speaker 2:But I didn't know how to do the procedure. So he hooked me up with some good people that were involved in the FDA approval of this particular technique that actually got the most stem cells out of the bone marrow the any other type of procedure. And then I learned from Dr Tomei how to do the aspiration, or the withdrawal of bone marrow from the bone in the back of the hip and I was off to the races Now that sounds really painful.
Speaker 2:You know it sure can be. But the good news is is that if you do a good job of numbing the patient up, before you do you put a needle into their bone and their hip there really isn't much pain at all.
Speaker 1:Okay, so can you tell us where these stem cells come from?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the stem cells are made in mass in the bone marrow itself, and bone marrow is in multiple bones and especially the big bones of the pelvis, the large bones of the legs and arms. There's lots of places that bone marrow is present, but it's probably the most easy to obtain by poking a small hole into the hip, behind your back, and then withdrawing 60 ccs of bone marrow from a person's hip.
Speaker 1:So how much is 60 ccs?
Speaker 2:60 ccs. Well, if you recall, if you've ever had nyquil, there's a little cap on the top of it that you can measure your cup with. That is 30 ccs. So two of those, so it's not very much, you know. You say 60 cc's, it seems like it's a gallon but it's not. And in fact you can do multiple draws from the same place and still have plenty of bone marrow to take care of your other body needs.
Speaker 1:Oh well, so is it possible for stem cells from one person to be used in another?
Speaker 2:It is possible, except that it is not going to be used in a person that's going to keep their own bone marrow. Bone marrow transplants have been available for a long time and have been used in medical cures, even of cancers of the bone marrow like oh, the name is escaping me myelodysplasia.
Speaker 2:It's a type of leukemia myelodysplasia that it's the bone marrow stops functioning properly and that can actually kill a person. And so if you can replace it with a transplant from somebody else, you can do that, but an otherwise healthy person. You can't use live cells from another person and have it work the same as your own, so it's best to use your very own cells in this type of procedure.
Speaker 2:Now it's possible to take other people's bone marrow or other so-called stem cells, wash them, break out the parts of the person's cells that create an immune response to those foreign cells and then inject those back in, and there is some evidence to support that it does work somewhat. But, the best thing to do for joint rejuvenation is to use your very own cells.
Speaker 1:That would make sense. Okay, so who would be an ideal candidate for this type of procedure?
Speaker 2:Oh, the ideal candidate to have a procedure where you could get some rejuvenation on your joints would be those that have pretty much undergone all they can do before having a joint replacement, like a hip replacement or knee replacement or shoulder replacement. Even those people before they get to the point where there's just no cartilage at all but they've had difficulty with pain. They're having a tough time going up and down stairs, they can't get out and play with their grandkids. Those are really the best people for this and we have multiple people that have done this over the last several years that have great results. Other people that are perfect candidates are those that have had injuries, such as athletes that have had significant trauma to their joints. I recently saw a patient that was a volleyball player and he had ankle injury that he'd had several surgeries on but still wasn't doing well, and we did a bone marrow concentrate stem cell procedure on his ankle and now just about I think we're about six months out he's doing fantastic in his back to playing volleyball.
Speaker 1:That is excellent. Why might someone, though, choose stem cell treatment over traditional joint replacement surgery? And almost seems like the replacement might be a little bit better.
Speaker 2:Well, in some cases, if the joint is too far gone, the joint replacement is the only answer, and I will recommend that.
Speaker 2:For some people that have no cartilage left and there's just really no hope to rejuvenate the joint, those people are best to go on and have their knees replaced or their hip.
Speaker 2:But those that still have some cartilage left, that are still wanting to be active and they're also still having enough debilitation or problems with their joint that they know they need to do something, but they don't want to endure the three to six months of recovery from a big operation like a hip replacement or a knee replacement, plus the swelling and the physical therapy and all that. The stem cell procedure is a very easy, really no downtime procedure. You have to be a little careful for a month or two and you can expect that it's going to take a little while. It's not like you put the stem cells in and in 15 minutes you're walking around like there was no pain there. It does take two to three months for good recovery, but you don't have to slow down. There's no need for you to. I mean, people get off of the table after the procedure and they get up and walk home just as well as they did before they came in.
Speaker 1:So how about the next day? Are they feeling pain the next day?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good question. They do have a little bit of achiness from the aspiration point, the place in the back where the bone marrow is removed. They'll have some achiness from that, but it's tolerable maybe one or two out of 10. And let's just say, if we did the shoulder, most people have some mild achiness that is easily controlled with Tylenol and a little bit of ice and people do really really well and by day three or four their pain level is actually better than when they started.
Speaker 1:Okay, that was my next question. Excellent, so you talked about this a little bit, but where can all of the stem cells be placed within the body?
Speaker 2:Wow, that's there's really almost limitless. There's evidence to support Every joint in the body can benefit from this if they have trouble, Even as far as fingers can do it. It's not something I do a lot of very small joints because I have more volume of stem cells so we'd need to do multiple fingers if we are going to do one. But mostly we do ankles, knees, hips, shoulders, elbows. Those are the most important ones. But they have good information on the spine and it can be used multiple places on the spine, even in times before a person has an operation, so it can have some important help there. It can also be given intravasularly, so as an IV, and there's evidence support that some people can have lung disease and other internal organ improvement from that, because you're getting a big bunch of concentration of cells that immediately go. In fact the first place they go often is the lungs. So there's really good evidence of support that lungs get some improvement right away with that. Right away is meaning, you know, within a month or two.
Speaker 1:Excellent, wow, so there's really lots of places it can be used, yes, very fascinating.
Speaker 2:And it's one of the reasons why I'm so excited about it.
Speaker 2:With my experience with it so far, there's just been so much good. I mean, for instance, I had an 85-year-old gentleman who loved to play golf. He would come in and he would just cry almost because he was having so much trouble getting around the golf course. He hated to get in a golf cart and he always have walked the course and now he couldn't because of his knee. So we talked about it and he'd had his left knee replaced and he did not want to go through that again.
Speaker 1:Especially as an 85, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it was a big commitment to do a joint replacement at that age. But you know what? If your bone marrow is working and you're still alive, you've got healthy stem cells in even an 85-year-old. It's amazing. So we took those stem cells from his bone marrow and then we placed him into his knee and within three months he was walking the course again, playing 18 holes of golf three times a week. Wow, and that lasts for three years. That's pretty good for an 85-year-old. And so we thought well, if it worked once, maybe it'll work again. So we did it again, and it sure did. It worked, and he was 91 when he passed away.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, yeah, oh, that's fantastic to hear these stories. I love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is stem cell therapy considered experimental or does it have FDA approval?
Speaker 2:Well, it was experimental for a long time and still insurance companies don't cover this procedure.
Speaker 1:But they do cover it interoperatively.
Speaker 2:So in a surgery to try and help that, it often is covered. It just depends on the insurance plan. However, putting it into a joint for rejuvenation purposes isn't covered by insurance plans but it is FDA approved. And this particular procedure that I use, using a product or a laboratory product device that separates the cells and mixes it just right. That happens all at the same time that you've taken the bone marrow out of the person, so at the very same setting that particular device in the process is FDA approved and it's been shown that that particular procedure gives you the most stem cells for the amount of volume of bone marrow that you remove. So it's excellent at giving good results.
Speaker 1:This is just so fascinating, it just blown away.
Speaker 2:This is just like a miracle.
Speaker 2:It is and it's so cool. I looked at other ways for stem cells to be obtained. There's another way to do it that is also FDA approved that basically you take it from the abdomen in the cells of the fat. You can get stem cells from there as well. However, the results aren't as good for doing rejuvenation into joints from there. It just seems. It has turned out that the stem cells that come from bone marrow are uniquely qualified to take care of bone cartilage and other connected tissue that way. So it's been really really effective in doing the joint rejuvenation that we've been working on.
Speaker 1:So how long have you been performing this procedure and how many people have you seen benefit from it?
Speaker 2:I have been doing this now for almost seven years. I've performed 80, I think it's 82 cases now, and of those cases I've only had one or two that it didn't work like I expected. Now, since then, I've become much better at finding those that are the best candidates for this procedure and the people that it didn't work I chose inappropriately, because they had no cartilage left, and so it was a little bit of a learning process on my part. But at this point I can't even think of somebody in the last three years that hasn't had an amazing, almost miraculous recovery, and when I mean recovery, that means decreased pain and sometimes pain-free, and increased mobility. So they're back doing the things they like to do. They're playing with their kids or doing things that they would otherwise like to do, like play golf, or some people have even gone back into volleyball and other very active sports after their stem self-recedure.
Speaker 1:So that is a remarkable number 82 and only just a couple that have not worked like you expected. That is just. That is quite a number. It is, it's impressive. Actually, it's one of the reasons why.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited about it is because every time we do it there's this little thing in the back of my head that says gosh, I hope this really works this time Right. And then a month later, when I get to see him, they're telling him one guy came in after his shoulder. When he had his shoulder before the procedure he could barely lift his arm up level with his shoulder. Okay, it was so sore. And when he came in at a month's time after the procedure, I said so how's your shoulder? And he said what shoulder?
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, and he just waved it around like there was no problem at all and I went oh my gosh, I'm wiping my brow from sweat, hoping that it would work right. This isn't inexpensive technology, and it's something that it is expensive to do and it's not insurance plan covered, and so you really hope for the best. But, oh my gosh, does it ever work? It is so cool.
Speaker 1:Okay. So talking about the cost, what's a ballpark figure on the cost of stem cell therapy?
Speaker 2:Well, and stem cell therapy is something that it's charged differently in different areas of the country. There are some places that charge $10,000 to $15,000 for a single joint.
Speaker 2:Now normally I charge about roughly $5,500 per joint but I give money off for if you do multiple joints or other discounts, just in case they pay cash, for instance, and I don't have to incur a credit card fee for merchant fees, things like that. I give people discounts, but roughly and it depends on the patient. It depends on the joint. There's a lot of depending on this because of the different types of things that I can do to provide this service, that I want to make sure that I give the most accurate amount to a person individually, because there are lots of variables, and I want to make sure it's right for an individual.
Speaker 1:Well, I really appreciate that there's not just you that's working this. You've got someone that's spinning the stem cell.
Speaker 2:You've got a kit that you purchased.
Speaker 1:I mean there's a lot of different components to this whole procedure.
Speaker 2:There, sure is. It's really a team, and the entire operation or the procedure takes about an hour and it starts out with putting the patient in a face-down position on the table, numbing up the area that we're going to take the stem cells or the bone marrow from, sterilizing the area with a sterilizing solution, putting drapes over just like you would any other surgery, and then putting a special needle into the bone and withdrawing the bone marrow from that. Now the-.
Speaker 1:They can't feel that right.
Speaker 2:Oh, they can feel it some.
Speaker 2:Oh okay Again, but it's tolerable. They won't feel it until I start to withdraw the bone marrow. I can't numb up the bone marrow but I can numb up everything else up to it. But when the bone marrow is withdrawn it feels kind of an aching, sucking sensation. That is tolerable. I'd say it's maybe a three or four out of 10 kind of discomfort, but it certainly isn't so painful that people are screaming or hollering.
Speaker 2:None of that it's really quite able to do. Now the other thing that we do with that is we take that stem cell or the bone marrow concentrate and then we place that into the lab. People's hands pass that off and then they go to the centrifuge and get that prepared and into the centrifuge and spin it down. While they're doing that I'm taking care of the patient, making sure that they are comfortable, putting a bandaid over the wound that I just created and making sure they're doing okay. The next thing I do is prepare the joint where this is going to go and make sure it's sterile. We've got it numbed up, all of those things by the time that. It probably takes about 20 minutes to get the prepared bone marrow concentrate from the lab and they hand that to me and then I inject that into the joint.
Speaker 1:Have you had anybody pass out?
Speaker 2:No one. No one's passed out.
Speaker 1:That's good.
Speaker 2:If you did it, you'd probably pass out.
Speaker 1:Of course I would.
Speaker 2:So anyway, but people do really really well. The whole procedure takes about an hour and they walk out just as happy as they walked in.
Speaker 1:It's just so fascinating. I'm just so thrilled to hear this.
Speaker 2:My mom actually was Jeff's first patient and she's doing remarkable there have been people who said that taking care of your mother-in-law first was a gutsy move.
Speaker 1:It was, but it still worked and she's thrilled and she's doing very, very well.
Speaker 2:And we did her knee and she's still doing okay on that same knee and it's been over six years, almost seven.
Speaker 1:Yep, she's about ready to have her hip done.
Speaker 2:So with stem cell.
Speaker 1:With stem cell? Yep, definitely. She believes in it for sure. So is there anything else a potential candidate should know about stem cell therapy?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that what you need to know is that you don't get the same stem cells in every instance. You've got to make sure that it comes from you, and if the cells come from you, you have a much higher likelihood of having them help. And let me tell you why. Your own cells do two things. First of all, there's chemistry, proteins in your body, especially in your bone marrow, that when they're injected in another place, they tell the rest of the body hey, here's a place that needs to be healed, so it will attract other stem cells that are already throughout the body and so it'll bring those there too. And then when you get a concentration of stem cells that come from the bone marrow right in the area, plus that chemical attractant, you get the best chance for healing. Now these other so-called stem cell treatments that are from like there are some that have come from fetal tissue.
Speaker 1:That was another question, so please answer that one.
Speaker 2:There's also some from umbilical cord blood, and those tissues are not what you would call real stem cells, because they have to wash them of the particles that would cause you to reject them. So, and then those chemical attractants. It's called chemotaxis, which means chemical or cell walking, so these cells will then walk to the affected area. Now that works somewhat, but it doesn't work as good as the two-phase way that your own cells will do, with a concentration of your own cells, your own healing cells, and then a chemical attractant to bring the ones that are nearby too.
Speaker 1:Wow, this has just been such an interesting and enlightening conversation and I really appreciate the time that you've taken to explain stem cell joint rejuvenation and what happens from start to finish. I just have really appreciated the questions that we had and the answers that you've given them, so oh, thanks.
Speaker 2:It's been really fun to talk about. This is so exciting for me to do so. If anybody would like to to know more about it or see if they are a candidate, in the show notes there will be a telephone number that you can call and the website that you can get to to be able to find out everything you need to know and find out for you if you're a candidate. So please check that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we want to just thank Dr Jeff for his expertise and taking the time to really give people hope and, facing the prospect of joint surgery or the potential of having stem cell, and people that are living with chronic pain and that are just so uncomfortable every single day, this can be an alternative for them, and so this is definitely an option and something to explore a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some people are kind of turned off by the cost and, I'm sorry. Expensive technology, absolutely. It's difficult and I recognize that. However, the cost that comes to your life by having your joint ripped out and then a new joint placed in in the recovery time there's a cost for that too, even if your insurance plan covers it.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly, and you know what. People are too busy anymore. They don't want to take time to be in bed and recovering for six weeks to three months. So I think that this is just an incredible, miraculous alternative, and I'm thrilled that you were able to share this amazing procedure that people have access to, and I just want to thank you so much for being here. You're welcome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so wellness warriors. This is an exciting piece of medical technology that we have at our fingertips, and Dr Jeff is one of those that can do that. That is what we have for you today, and I can't wait to see you next week. So stay healthy, happy and keep smiling. Bye everyone, bye, bye. Thanks for tuning in to the Q&A Files, delighted to share today's gems of wisdom with you. Your questions light up our show, fueling the engaging dialogues that make our community extra special. Keep sending your questions to Trisha Jamison Coaching at gmailcom. Your curiosity is our compass. Please hit subscribe, spread the word and let's grow the circle of insight and community together. I'm Trisha Jamison Signing off. Stay curious, keep thriving and keep smiling, and I'll catch you on the next episode.
