The Q&A Files
The Q&A Files drops A Wellness Explosion
💥 BOOM! Attention Wellness Warriors. The game changer you have been waiting for is finally here. Say hello to “The Q&A Files,” where wellness meets revolution and your questions lead to new discoveries. Spearheaded by Trisha Jamison, your host, a Board Certified Functional Nutritionist. Cohost Dr. Jeff Jamison, a Board Certified Family Physician, and featured guest, Tony Overbay, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. This podcast blends three diverse perspectives to tackle your questions on health, nutrition, medicine, mental wellness, and relationships. Dive into a world of expert insights and actionable advice, all sparked by your curiosity. Tune in, ignite your wellness journey, and join the Wellness Warrior community.
The Q&A Files
12. Group discussion regarding the Four Levels of Consciousness
Have you ever stood in awe of a friend's resilience and the sheer power of human connection? We certainly have, and this episode is a toast to those moments and the personal evolutions they fuel. Trisha Jamison here, joined by the insightful Dr. Jeff Jamison and the ever-entertaining Tony Overbay, to share laughter, reflections on the stages of consciousness, and the ties that strengthen our community. We'll guide you through the laughter-filled paths from feeling targeted by life's slings and arrows to embracing a unified, powerful stance in the world.
Navigating the tides of personal responsibility and conscious living can often feel like a Herculean task, but it's a voyage we all must undertake. Through personal anecdotes and a sprinkle of humor, we tackle the tricky terrain of victim mentality and the liberation found in owning our life choices. Imagine sailing through the flow state, where judgment falls away and being and doing coalesce into a harmonious existence. It's not just a philosophical debate; it's the practical magic of everyday interactions, and we're here to share how you can tap into that collective consciousness.
If you think therapy and coaching are as different as chalk and cheese, let's stir the pot together and explore their transformative flavors. We'll serve up a conversation on how early experiences season our adult lives, and share the recipe for rewiring those neural pathways. With a dash of personal insight and a generous helping of expert advice, we'll show you how to navigate the personal growth journey with the gusto of a chef improvising a masterful dish. So, whether you're hiking with Jeff or taking a gentler trail, join us for an episode that's a veritable feast for the mind and soul, without the risk of getting lost in the woods.
Hello and welcome to the Q&A Files, the ultimate health and wellness playground. I'm your host, tricia Jamieson, a board-certified functional nutritionist and lifestyle practitioner, ready to lead you through a world of health discoveries. Here we dive into a tapestry of disease prevention, to nutrition, exercise, mental health and building strong relationships, all spiced with diverse perspectives. It's not just a podcast, it's a celebration of health, packed with insights and a twist of fun. Welcome aboard the Q&A Files, where your questions ignite our vibrant discussions and lead to a brighter you. Hello, wellness warriors. Welcome back to our journey through the skies of consciousness. I'm your host, tricia Jameson, and pilot today. But I am no longer navigating these skies solo. I have my two trusty co-pilots back with me. First we have Dr Jeff Jameson, our board-certified family physician, who's not only an expert in healing bodies but also in enlightening our minds, and Tony Overbay, a licensed marriage and family therapist, who can cut through relationship tangles with insights sharper than a scalpel. Before we dive into today's adventure, let's take a moment for some celebrations. Who would like to go first? I?
Speaker 2:think you would like to go first. Oh, okay, I'll go first.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you do, I think you want to go first. I think you would like to go first. Oh, okay, I'll go first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you do. I think you want to go first.
Speaker 1:So we went to a concert last night, jeff and I, and we have a really, really dear, wonderful friend that has since moved away, but she's a phenomenal singer. She's done amazing work. She works at the Snow College in Utah, but she used to teach our kids singing lessons and they had a theater class that they did and put on a wonderful play way back then. And I was just watching her last night as she was singing and she had just briefly I don't know if we really want to go into this but she was actually the wife of Jeff's partner way long ago and so there's a lot of pain here because they had since gotten a divorce, but it was just we have both of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely both of them, because Jeff was basically married to her husband through the office and the falling out was pretty horrific. But it was so wonderful to see her and to see her two girls and how she's just evolved, continued to evolve through a very difficult time in her life. She's gorgeous and just to listen to her two girls and how well they're doing, despite they don't have a relationship with their father anymore at all, and just to listen to her sing, it just brought back some really tender moments. Her husband used to play the piano like I've never heard anyone play in my life and they used to. She would sing and he'd play and she had another accompanist there. But it just brought back some really fond, beautiful memories of her and I just really appreciated seeing where she's at in her life. So that was my celebration.
Speaker 3:That's nice.
Speaker 1:Okay, tony.
Speaker 3:Okay, I that was really nice. And did you say, is she at snow college?
Speaker 1:She is teaching at snow college, correct.
Speaker 3:So that was, uh was 50 years ago, when I was graduating high school Wasn't quite that long ago, but 30 something. That was a school that I went and did a campus visit to go play baseball at Snow College. How funny is that. Oh, interesting, I know I did not end up playing there, but that was. I thought it was a big time when I drove down to central Utah and stayed in a dorm and then walked around the campus and yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, and you didn't stay there. You didn't go out for baseball because you had a in your drowning experience.
Speaker 3:that That'll do it a little bit. Yeah, devastating, can't run over by a boat a few weeks later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it doesn't happen to just anybody.
Speaker 3:No, no. Okay. So my celebration, though, is our podcast. I texted you both and said I felt very guilty because I've enjoyed recording them but I hadn't listened, and I don't like listening to myself. But I figured I could listen to you guys, and I listened to a couple episodes and I really liked it. I mean, I really did act like I'm surprised. We were actually okay.
Speaker 2:It was odd, it was good that we were at least okay.
Speaker 3:Right? No, it was really. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1:You listened, cause I know that you don't listen to a lot of your stuff. I don't hear that with me. So hey, that's, that's a start, that's awesome. Well good, that's fantastic.
Speaker 3:So I'm grateful to be.
Speaker 1:I'm even more grateful to be. It was really fun to hear us solve problems and witty banter all together. That was fun. Yeah, we've been hearing a lot of really fun comments and feedback. It's been pretty exciting. So, yeah, thank you. All right, Jeff.
Speaker 2:Well, mine is also surrounding the podcast, and we've had a whole bunch of really good reviews from both I mean straight to us and some on the website, so we're so excited to have the new podcast and have some fun comments. I think it's a real celebration for me. As you know, Tony's an old hand at publishing podcasts and this is new for us, and so to have some positive feedback has been really fun.
Speaker 1:So fun. We've had a couple constructive directions which we've really appreciated. Actually, I think that that's been really good. They've been very respectful and just hey, what do you think of this? And I really appreciated that as well. So we'll take all comments and we just want to continue to grow and allow this you know amazing podcast to continue to evolve into something really great. I'm sure what it is now isn't going to be what it is in six months probably, but well, hey, so I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't want to hijack this, because I can't wait to get to today's topic, because I don't know anything about it. So I'm really excited about it. But I love what you're saying, though, because when I did my first podcast and I think now, if you add all the one stuff I've done, I'm pushing 600 episodes. So I appreciate Jeff saying the old hat, but for the first I can't tell you how many I was just pretty obsessed with the numbers and the feedback and the reviews and the comments. And when I look back now, there were a couple of people that would say, um, hey, get to your point. And I remember I used to feel so offended because, uh, I wanted to make everybody happy, I want to make everybody love it. And now, if I ever get one of those, I cause.
Speaker 3:I was thinking about this on a run last night and I thought how adorable that that person knows what my point is and when I should get to it, because I'm the one kind of talking about whatever it is I'm talking about. But I no longer feel this. I have to. I have to do what some person I don't know tells me that I need to do or I don't have to then reach back out and tell them oh yeah, when you get your own podcast and you can get your point faster, you know. So neither one of those are very helpful, but I love now I love good constructive criticism, because I'm I definitely am open to something. I don't know, that I don't know, and so I like that. So hopefully you guys can skip that whole step where you feel like you're you need to do it different for somebody else or you got to tell them that they're they are incorrect.
Speaker 2:You know it's interesting. Last night we were we were talking about Google reviews and we were talking about it to this friend of ours that had given that concert and her two daughters, and they were mentioning that Google reviews are something that they, when they want a good chuckle, that they look at their dad's Google reviews because apparently they're not very good, and I think that's sad for him. But then they said but yours, speaking of mine, Dr Jameson, are pretty good and I thought, first of all, how cool of them to look me up.
Speaker 2:And secondly, to have some positive results on Google is always a plus, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Because we're a world run by reviews anymore, and so all of the people that are listening at this moment take a minute and write a review. If you would, That'd be great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and it's just kind of going along with this theme that we're talking about for just a second, the person that is helping us put our podcast together. He said, okay, we need to have a discussion. I said okay, he said you need to grow some thick skin. And I went but I don't have thick skin and he's like I know, but you need to grow some. Because he said you know he has a podcast as well. And he said you know, because he said you know he has a podcast as well. And he said you know, people just say mean things and they just are trolls.
Speaker 1:And it's pretty, it's pretty heart wrenching, and you take those to heart. He goes you know you can have a hundred people say wonderful things. You've got one person I know we've talked about this before, tony but they say one thing about whatever your looks or how you sound or whatever that might be, and you just it's like, oh my gosh, that's all you think about. And he's like you can't do that. He's like you need to have Dr Jeff, he needs to be the one that reads those. He's got thick skin. There we go. Okay. So going into today's topic, I'm so excited to talk about this because I have incorporated these concepts into my practice and it's been mind blowing. And I have not only incorporated it into my practice, but I've incorporated it into my life and I have just I'm loving the person that I'm becoming because I'm so conscientious about these four concepts. A few episodes ago the four levels of consciousness I introduced this concept with Tony and he had not heard this before and so I thought it would be.
Speaker 3:No, I'm Googling over here like crazy.
Speaker 1:because I want to sound smart, I'm going to lean into the discomfort, here we go.
Speaker 1:I love when you're uncomfortable. It makes me happy, the discomfort. Okay, here we go. I love when you're uncomfortable, it makes me happy. So what better way to delve deeper than the three of us sharing our perspectives on this so fascinating topic? But, like I mentioned earlier, I have laid the groundwork for our listeners on two previous episodes, so I break down each level in detail for you, and if you have not heard those episodes yet, please go back and listen to them, because they will really enrich your understanding. I'm going to just so briefly talk about these here, and then we're going to wrap these beautiful concepts together and just allow them to unfold organically and see what happens.
Speaker 1:These four concepts, they're called the four levels of consciousness, and they come from a mentor of mine, peter Sage, and what I thought was really fascinating is I was doing some research and he was inspired by another gentleman who name is Vaishen Lakikani, and they both, even though they're similar, they're so different. And so, while Peter's vision and perspective, those are so unique, I have now woven my own ideas and tailored them to my own work. But I also want to give credit where credit's due, and that is from him, peter Sage. Now the four levels. It goes to me, by me, through me and as me, and so I'm just going to break down each of these four concepts and then we can discuss them afterwards.
Speaker 1:The to me stage this is you're the victim. Life happens to you, challenges may feel like a personal attack, and these circumstances are always dictated in your own happiness and success, and it's always negative. So it's a stage where growth begins, but it's always prompted with the question why does this always have to happen to me? But it's always prompted with the question why does this always have to happen to me?
Speaker 2:I always think of you, know you put bread down and then it comes up burnt.
Speaker 1:Or in the toaster you put the bread down in the toaster, thank you.
Speaker 1:And it comes up burnt and you are walking going to the car and you stumble over a toy and you spill your hot drink on your shirt. Or you are at a stoplight and just before you got there you had to turn quickly and your sunglasses flew across the dashboard and so at the light, you reach down to grab your sunglasses and you hit your forehead on your gear shift. That's just the morning. It's like everything's happening to you. Now, in the buy me stage, it's more like you're grabbing the reins, you're recognizing this incredible power that you have the ability to create change. Now this is you start setting goals, you start taking action, but it's hard work. So, if you think of an entrepreneurial, how they start from the ground up. It takes time, effort, it's almost like swimming against the current, but you're still trying to figure life out. You are taking actionable steps. You're moving forward. That's the difference between the to me, because you're still stuck in victim mode and 80% of the population is stuck in victim mode, and so this is a great concept to where can I bridge? How can I bridge from to me to by me? It's those actionable steps and allowing yourself to move forward. The third step is the through me stage, and this is where I love this part, because it's like you start to surrender to the flow of life. You're no longer being forced against the current, you are now flowing with the current. This is where intuition, visualization and intention starts to guide you through your life, and this is also where you really start to trust yourself, your own intuition, your own wisdom. And in the to-me stage you don't. There's no trusting of anything or anyone. When you have this concept becoming more instilled in your life, it becomes such a guiding force. It becomes this you start to feel these unexpected pieces of joy and realizations of that your life can be so much better and greater. The fourth one is the asthma stage, and this is where everything takes a turn. This is where you start to allow not only flow and fluidity to be part of your life. This is where you start to look at the world in such a fashion that you're allowing yourself to be part of other people's experience. And it's not like you become more empathic, it's more of. You feel people's sorrow because they are going through a hard time. You feel others' joy. Because you feel this joy, you are recognizing how other people's concepts, beliefs and opinions, how it's separate from yours. You acknowledge, you accept, you love them anyway, you forgive and you enjoy each other regardless. There's not this, my way, or the highway. It's you allowing yourself to breathe deeply, to be a conduit for good.
Speaker 1:It's when you see a homeless person on the street. It's not having judgment, it's thinking of them. You know what is their story. What have they done?
Speaker 1:I actually I saw a video. In this video there was a dad and a girl and they both sat down to eat a meal. They both sat down to eat a meal and she saw a woman, probably 15 feet from her, who looked like she was pretty disheveled and most likely homeless. So the girl picked up her food and she sat it at the table another table just behind them and she reached over and she grabbed this woman's hand and had her come and sit down. And the dad turned around like what are you doing? And then picked up his food and went over and sat down with the two of them and he gave his food to his daughter. That's an example of there's no judgment. It's allowing this conduit to be part of our existence in a way that we can feel and breathe as one, it's more of a wholeness, a oneness. That's kind of the four levels of consciousness that I wanted to share with the four of you, and now I'd love to kind of have a discussion about that.
Speaker 2:Wow, tony, we both had twins, because there's now four of us, that's right. Yes, I'm sorry, tricia, that was just a joke.
Speaker 1:That was such a dad joke. Oh my gosh, I'm just going to ignore that one right now.
Speaker 2:Well, this is very interesting stuff, Tony. If you've got some thoughts, go for it. I've got some thoughts as well.
Speaker 3:Okay, I mean I really like these a lot. It's funny. I just jotted down a couple of things and then I want to hear you, dr Jeff, and we'll all interact. That sounded so nerdy and not as cool as I thought it did in my head. But the first one where the To me, yeah, yeah To me, and that victim mentality Boy I, yeah, I see that one so often and I think most of the time when people come in to see me at first there is a lot of that. They kind of need to know that. I know that things are hard for them and, and I think sometimes being able to normalize what's going on with people helps a little bit. Him and, and I think sometimes being able to normalize what's going on with people helps a little bit. And I think sometimes it's where people feel like they're the only ones that are going through these things that are happening to them. But I wrote down it's really interesting.
Speaker 3:You know I'm in the middle of a we're moving and I got one of the most interesting texts from a friend of mine and it was really, I mean, bless his heart. But he said he just said I just found out that you're moving and he said it was some of the effect of why did these things continue to happen to me? You know, even you're, you're one of my friends and even, and now you're moving. And I thought, oh, that, you know, broke my heart, because that that's a really deep dive into making it about him that how dare I move, cause don't I understand what that's going to be like for him. And you know, and it's, and it just breaks my heart, but I know that that's something that he feels often and feels deeply. And then the third one I really I mean, I like the second one too, because now we're starting to take action. That third one, though, that threw me. Man, I love that concept so much because that's, you know, I wrote down the.
Speaker 3:I like the phrase I'm just being and doing. I mean that's what I'm doing, I'm just being and I'm just. This is the first time I'm going through life as me and and I'm interacting with the world. And I think that flow state is so powerful because it removes judgment. It removes, I mean, when somebody is saying, why'd you do that, well, my first answer really is because I did, because first time I've ever been me right now, and this is what I'm doing and now we can kind of take a look at what the impact was on that. But I think that really just the more that we can kind of let go of I'm doing it wrong or asking somebody else how should I be doing it, that then we start to take ownership of our own stuff and then it turns out that we don't have to know it now, we don't have to know the finish line, and I think that just state of flow is so good, so I love that through me. So then I just went from there just being and doing.
Speaker 3:And then that last one is uh, we're all just being and doing. You know, and that's my, my pillar is that assuming good intentions, or there's, or there's even a reason why somebody's being mean, because that's how they feel, like they need to be heard or seen, or and we're all going through this for the first time and everybody's only knows what they know, and and if I notice that I want to say, well, that person needs to do this, who am I to know what that person needs to do this? Who am I to know what that person needs to do? Because if we're all just doing and being, then it's this whole collective consciousness. And then you start to you got to get a yoga mat and I got to get a ponytail. I got to sit on the ground and then the whole the whole I'd like to see you with the ponytail.
Speaker 3:I would too.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Get one of those hats that's already connected.
Speaker 2:I've had them.
Speaker 3:Oh, Dr Jeff, I've had those and then, yeah, I've seen how much I could grow out my ear hair, but I don't think that would really work.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's just gross anyway, yeah, when you dream. Do you dream with yourself, with hair or no hair?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a great question. I think I'm sitting in a good old Sunday school class and people will talk about you know, and when the resurrection, and not a hair will be off your head or whatever. I feel the whole room shifts over and kind of looks over at me Almost like am I going to be in tears of happiness, but the reality is I think I'm going to look like a buffoon. I don't remember what I look like with hair, so I'm good without it. Yeah, good question, though.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you look great. Yeah, you're kind. Hey, Dr Jeff.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I think that this is really interesting concepts, of course, and I think that we can all relate to each of them at one point or another. As a physician, I see lots of people in the to-me phase because they feel that things are happening to them, and the other thing is that they really like to transfer their responsibility to me, that physician, or to I'm sure Tony you may have felt this way, and maybe you too that it's like okay, here's the problem, now you fix it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can see that. Here's the problem.
Speaker 2:Now you fix it, yeah, and so that's one of the hallmarks to me, of this to me phase is that not only are you feeling that everything is happening to you and that you're in the victim mode, but also you don't see your own responsibility in your life or that you have a very limited amount of responsibility, and I think that that's a huge thing. That a lot of people keeps them stuck is not taking responsibility for their life, and this is something I think personally. I mean, I've certainly been in that phase where I didn't want to make it my fault that I've got this problem, or I didn't want to accept responsibility for my own issues or past or the fact that I might have caused someone else pain. Those things are things that you just want to go well, I didn't mean to so, therefore, you didn't hurt Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right and so yeah, and that's a place that is hard to be and there have been times that I've talked to patients in this situation where they clearly hurt someone else but they're still in that to-me place and they can't really see themselves out of it because they can't take responsibility for their actions.
Speaker 2:So I give this little short story. I say imagine you and this friend husband whomever this other person is that they're having trouble with. If you go on a big hike and you make it to the top of the mountain and on the edge of the mountain, on the top, there's a cliff on one side and the trail on the other and you're both standing on the edge of the cliff and you're looking over and you're admiring the view, and just then you turn to your side, away from the friend, and see a flower and you reach down to pick it up. When you do that, you bump the person and you bump them off the cliff to their death. So you could say you didn't mean to do it, but the result still is there that you caused the death of that person.
Speaker 3:Now it's a dramatic representation of that, of course. Yeah, not based on a true story.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, not, whatever the case may be, and I've taken the responsibility and said, okay, now here's how we do it, here's the steps we need to take.
Speaker 2:Map it all out and just go to town on the steps and checklists and boxes checked, and move through it, and I have not spent as much time in through me, which is, you know, surrendering to the flow of it. And I think that I've got a couple of children that would really like me to spend more time in letting the flow happen, because they haven't had as much fun with me because I was so focused on tasks, because they haven't had as much fun with me because I was so focused on tasks. But later in life, here, now that you know my children most of our children are older and adults we're finding more fun because I'm allowing them to have their lives and have fun with it, rather than focusing on what I need them to do during the only off time that I have, and they're no longer teenagers. Yes, and they're no longer teenagers and don't want to do during the only off time that I have.
Speaker 3:Okay, everybody, let's get going and they're no longer teenagers.
Speaker 2:Yes, and they're no longer teenagers and don't want to do anything. I say anyway, right, and the as me man, I'm working on that one. That is something that to just get into the connection with the universe and to try and understand my part in it. Sometimes I get stuck in just trying to get my work done. But I'm grateful for the times that I can sort of dissociate and be a part of the great scheme and take the 30,000-foot view. That makes a lot of sense when I can get there and then I can work through and make my life so much better. And I know that when Tricia and I have been able to escape from the world environment and be able to be the two of us and just dream together, that that has been some of the most enjoyable connecting times that we've ever had.
Speaker 1:Excellent. I love both of your comments and how you've incorporated kind of your own personal journey into these four concepts, and I think so in the Through Me stage I talk a lot about Jim Carrey and what his story is. It's pretty fascinating. So, again, if you haven't heard that other episode, please make sure you do that, because there's some really intriguing pieces that I don't even think he realized he was applying to his life, but because he did, he became so successful. But a couple of the key things that he really focused on were intuition, visualization and intention, and when you put those three pieces together it becomes quite a powerful trio. One of the things, too, is when I'm working with my clients and my couple clients, they always start off in to me and you know they're pointing fingers, they're angry, they come in with just a lot of venom and frustration and as we start to focus on how to bridge that gap and the difference, Because their partner should know Right.
Speaker 1:But how to bridge those from to me to by me and the different steps to take to get into that next phase. And it's been pretty enlightening for me to watch how, you know, we start with our limiting beliefs as a child and how that gets incorporated, not just as we evolve into adulthood, how that becomes more entrenched and cemented into our brain, and how difficult it becomes to change, to change those thought processes and those neural pathways. But once they recognize, oh wow, this is what's happening, this is where this came from, this is where I got this. And then these are the different steps. And we talk about critter brain a lot and how, when you're in critter brain, you're more emotional.
Speaker 1:It's hard to get your CEO back online, and so different things to incorporate to put your CEO back online your prefrontal cortex, your thinking, logical planning part of your brain that helps you make good decisions, helps you focus on not the emotional aspect of what someone's saying, but more of a oh okay, let me take a look at this, let me think about this. And that's also applying Tony's four pillars. And so those, the four pillars and these four levels of consciousness, are just a powerhouse of transformation and it's just amazing if you can start to like in my life, if I'm struggling with something, I immediately think where am I? Am I into me? Oh, I'm into me. Okay, how do I get into by me? How do I? And then I just start going up that path of now if I'm in as me, which is it takes time.
Speaker 1:This is a process. This is something that is not easily, because in our earlier episode, when I talk about there's eight different levels in the victimhood mode. One of them is and I think this is how this conversation even started was we talked about how children, when they're not feeling unconditional love, they're feeling conditional love, because when they do things well, they get praise. When they don't do things well, they don't get praise, and what that does to the child. And, like I said earlier, it's not about not disciplining, but it's about looking at things differently and allowing yourself, as parents, to go. Okay, I need to focus on the behavior, not the person, and so that's the part that's going to be really important.
Speaker 2:I have a question for you. How do you help or coach your clients out of to me and get into by me and through me?
Speaker 1:I love that. So there's three things that really grow the prefrontal cortex. That's meditation, prayer and gratitude. Those three, just like a muscle, just allows that muscle to grow stronger.
Speaker 1:When you're in the to me phase, you're in critter brain, you're in it's all about me, poor me. You know you're sad. Everything's done to you. When you're focusing on gratitude, it's hard to stay in to me when you're thinking of good things, about other people, and that you're grateful for something they've done for you, or you're grateful for your life, or you just start to see the world differently. And in fact, a couple that I'm working with right now for the last two weeks that's what we've been focusing on is just gratitude Having them recognize when someone says something nice to them, because sometimes they'll say I didn't even hear that. Because they're so used to staying in that to me phase. They're not even paying attention to the good, because you get to create your own experience every day and if you're looking for the negative and the sour things, that's what you're going to find rather than putting a little bit of sweetener and enjoying that lemonade.
Speaker 1:That is what's going to make that difference for you is how can you look through your own lens and see the world through a different perspective?
Speaker 2:So that's what I do Awesome, thank you, tony. Same question how do you get?
Speaker 3:people to level up. Well, it's interesting, and this is where I, trisha and I've had great conversations, I think, around therapy versus coaching, because and I'm saying that I think they go together real well because I find that when somebody is coming into me there, you know it's I'm not trained by nature to then say, okay, here's what you need to do. It's tell me why you don't feel like you can do and tell me what the obstacles are. And then you get to a certain point where then you want to then say, okay, well, how about this? But then usually I get met with the yeah buts. Well, yeah, but.
Speaker 3:And so when I was a new therapist, I had a clinical supervisor, this Dr Harris, who's since passed, but I remember bringing something to him where the client just and this is going to sound dismissive, but I know all of us are busy and we've got careers and jobs and kids and here was a person that they had, I think it was a part-time job, they were living with somebody and they weren't sure how they could find the time to go out and do things. They wanted to find a relationship, they had social anxiety, and so I'm sitting there, I think at the time, four little kids and I'm teaching an early morning seminary class and I'm working for myself and I'm trying to exercise. You know, it's all that. And then this person saying hey, you don't know what it's like, I get home sometimes at nine o'clock entire life and I remember that. So there's always my go-to is just to drop down into. I'm going to empathy the heck out of this person until they feel like man, they're not having to challenge what I'm saying, they finally kind of feel like and with this person it was far longer than I thought.
Speaker 3:And then they eventually just said man, does it sound like I'm making excuses? And then, you know, in my acting role of a lifetime, I was like, oh, hang on, what was excuses? I don't know. Tell me what you're thinking there. You know, and I know I think I am. And then I volunteered to be the excuse killer, you know, in that scenario and I can't say. And then they went on to live happily ever after. I mean, it was still a challenge.
Speaker 3:But so, you know, in my world it's like because I like what Trisha's saying where, if they can get outside of themselves, but for me it is first to provide them the safe place where they can feel heard and understood, because I think we talked on our podcast here that the reason talk therapy works is because somebody is opening up about scary things or things they feel less than, and somebody is saying tell me more, what's that like? And so then they they started to create a different relationship with this thing that they're typically. Whenever they say it, they're told well, you just need to do it this way or you're not doing it the right way. You know the fixing and judgment statements, so you know, when they finally say, okay, I said those things and this person still seems to be concerned and they're actually even wanting to me to talk more.
Speaker 3:Like this is, this is something's happening here. So for some people, if they haven't felt, heard or understood their whole life, then that's going to take a little more work. But I like, though, where I used to feel handcuffed when I would get to the point where it's like okay, now we're, now, what do we do, you know? And so that's where I I know Trish and I've had some good conversations around, so now I throw on my Toby the Life Coach hat and then tell them what to do, and then, when they don't do it, then I go back to Tony and say tell me more about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's incorporating the two different coming from the way you counsel and the way I coach, because when you think of a coach, counsel and the way I coach, because when you think of a coach, you think of that's what they do.
Speaker 3:They come to me to make a change. I know I like I've never told you this, like I like I thought about this one time. I'm glad you're bringing this up, but I thought, man, that's a pretty crummy coach, if you know coaching a football team, and and we all show up there and we're like what do we do, coach? And he's like, hey, man, I mean I don't know, what do you guys want to do?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, yeah, so it's like that wouldn't work, right?
Speaker 1:So when they already coming to me, they have a totally different mindset, and it's I know you're going to help me get through this and that's why I'm here with you. Do I listen to them? Do I listen to all their stories? Absolutely, but it's I love to cook, and I love to cook without any kind of recipe. And we just started this new thing. It's called Green Chef and we'd get-.
Speaker 3:It's like HelloFresh.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:Because I wanted to teach our son, who's 16 now, how to cook and he clearly can't learn to cook from me, because I never use a recipe ever and our girls have learned how to do that too, and they're they do amazing with all the different dishes that they put together, because they've learned how to put all these different ingredients together and make it taste yummy. But I've been able to. I can like put flavors in my brain and I can see what it's going to taste like. And that's what I kind of do with my coaching is I know where they need to go and I have to devise a plan to help them get to that place. Now, it has to, most of the time, be their doing, but I am coaching and I'm holding their hand, helping them along the way to help them see, because when they see where they're at, then obviously it's like that's their aha moment instead of me telling them what it is, and so it's still maneuvering them, navigating them in that direction.
Speaker 2:I have a different perspective, too, when it comes to this whole process, because I have much more limited time my time with a person is somewhere between 15 minutes and max 30 minutes.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it goes longer than that when it occasionally requires, but most of the time my timing is pretty low or my available time is pretty low, and so when something is identified for instance, if a person has diabetes and that diabetes is out of control, and clearly the thing that needs to happen is they need to change some of their behavior in order to improve their diabetes control so they don't have the downside consequences of poor diabetes control I try and find a piece that is important to them, something that I know that they're really connected and it's an important part of their life.
Speaker 2:For instance, I have a gentleman who really likes to restore old cars.
Speaker 2:I have another woman that I see that is really into fashion, and there's just all kinds of different things that are important to people, and so what I usually do is I'll take one of those things and say okay, you need to spend more time getting your meals prepared so that you don't have to think about what you're going to eat, because when you don't think about what you're going to eat, you make bad choices.
Speaker 2:Then they say, well, I just don't really have time to put energy into this, and I say, if you put as much time, or even half as much time into preparing your meals as you do getting your clothes ready for work tomorrow, that would be plenty of time. And so I'm weaving in the kind of behaviors that I know that they can relate to to try and say, yeah, I do have time, I just need to do it differently. And the thing that I also find interesting, as we've talked about these things, that each of these levels the to me, by me, through me and as me levels Each of these levels the to me, by me, through me and as me levels each of them require an increase in personal energy investment.
Speaker 1:And I think that's something that a lot of people don't want to do is invest energy into changing themselves because people don't like to change.
Speaker 1:Well, the unfortunate thing about that is if people recognize how much energy it takes to stay in the to me phase. It takes a lot of energy to be sad and depressed and you know when you're happy and you're ready to move forward. There's a lot of energy that goes with that and that momentum is felt heavily. But, yeah, okay, once you get there it's much better. There's a lot of energy that goes with that and that momentum is felt heavily.
Speaker 2:But yeah, okay, once you get there, it's much better.
Speaker 3:It lets us say the things that, uh, it really does break my heart is that I talk about the amount of emotional calories and energy spent in trying to figure out what's wrong with me. Why did that person do that, versus getting back into that? Uh, through me doing and being you know again. That's why, when I'm, when I'm saying, well, it just is, it happened. Now, what do I do? You've skipped all the part about what's wrong with me and this isn't fair and this doesn't happen to everybody else, and all those things. And you don't even realize how much time you spend trying to figure out the things that happened. And they happened because they did. And sometimes I feel bad saying this, but it's like I'm not as special as I used to think I am.
Speaker 1:You know I'm a fun hang, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 3:But it's not. The world isn't all revolved around like that thing didn't happen because I did something wrong. It just happened and I happen to be interacting with it, right, yeah, but I don't want to go on a hike with jeff though I'm gonna be honest with you because, uh, you know being pulled around a cliff, and if he's like no, no, don't do that. If he's like hey, come look at these flowers you know we can go flying tony.
Speaker 1:Yes, I would do that I would do that okay well, I'll go on a hike and I'll go flying with jeff how's that?
Speaker 3:all, all right, that's good.
Speaker 2:If I turn, I'll make sure there's plenty of room.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly. Well, this was really fascinating, not just going through the four concepts, but even just appreciating how we go about focusing on our clients and our patients, because Tony's perspective is really listening, honing in on how they're feeling and what that means for them. My focus is I listen to them as well, but my role is I'm coaching them and navigating them to be in a different place, and I don't listen, I just tell people what to do.
Speaker 2:And Jeff is going to say that.
Speaker 3:He tells them what to do and what to say.
Speaker 1:If you want to get better, these are the steps you need to follow. If you don't want to get better, then don't come see me, you're going to come see me anyway, right.
Speaker 1:And it's clear that moving through to me, by me and through me and as me is not a linear journey but a dynamic process that involves deep introspection, personal growth and surrendering to the flow of life. So, wellness warriors, we hope this discussion enriched your understanding and invite you to reflect on your own journey through these levels. Embrace where you are and remember growth is always within reach. Keep your questions coming and continue to allow curiosity to spark your thoughts and guide your exploration. So thank you so much for being here with us today and we will see you next week.
Speaker 3:Bye. Everybody, bye everybody.
Speaker 1:Thanks for tuning in to the Q&A Files, delighted to share today's gems of wisdom with you. Your questions light up our show, fueling the engaging dialogues that make our community extra special. Keep sending your questions to trishajamesoncoaching at gmailcom. Your curiosity is our compass. Please hit subscribe, spread the word and let's grow the circle of insight and community together. I'm Trisha Jameson, signing off. Stay curious, keep thriving and keep smiling, and I'll catch you on the next episode.
