Danielle Collins joins from Rome, Recap Nadal and Djokovic in Rome, and Jon Wertheim talks USTA Photo and Dominic Thiem Retirement

Danielle Collins, aka THE DANIMAL, joins the show to talk about her thoughts on this season so far, hers tory coming through NCAA, and why she doesn't like to travel with anyone. Jon Wertheim also joins to talk about the viral USTA photo from Rome and Dominic Thiem retirement. And a recap of Nadal, Djokovic, and more in the Rome Racket Rundown Presented by Wilson.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey everybody, welcome to another week, which means another Tuesday on audio with the serve podcast. I am Andy Roddick and it's been a weird couple of days. In Rome, you know, whoever had Novak gets a full metal water bottle dropped on his head on their bingo card. Um is celebrating. That was one of the weirder, more unfortunate things and, as I saw it, kind of like everything we digest little snippets of of twitter before we, before we, actually know the story and so, uh, short version is a fan leans over trying to like get a high five or a autograph as Novak's leaving after his first round winning. It's Moutet and the sleeve with the water bottle. He kind of bends over water bottle, just slips out and, like it couldn't have been more of a square, hit uh on Novak's skull. Uh, novak goes down. Um, like Bob Brian would have said, like a sack of potatoes it was. It was, uh, it was pretty serious looking and kind of. He just walked off and then you know we're, we're kind of like, okay, that I mean you can get your bell rung If, if, if you metal water bottle full of water not looking on your head, that's going to hurt.

Speaker 1: 1:29

So next day Novak comes in and it was pretty funny. Comes in in a bike helmet kind of making fun of the whole situation, which I kind of digested as like it's all good, you know, here I am making a funny joke and then comes out against Tabilo and doesn't look like Novak at all, loses two and three and it might not have been that close. He got broken four times. Three of the four times that he got broken he double faulted on break point, which is weird. Um, so I'm of two minds. It's like, okay, I'm, you know, concerned about form. It just seems like there are kind of the these weird situations and maybe it's just proving that even with time, someone like novak still needs a consistent cadence of tennis, right? I don't know that you can show up, as you know, no matter how great you are, um, show up all the time on short rest and have it work out every time. And then I'm like, okay, so does that just mean we're entitled to like this greatness where he doesn't need matches and we expect him to just be the greatest forever? It's a weird moment.

Speaker 1: 2:51

I'm not one to get carried away with like a given result, but on a five-month sample size or a six-month sample size, you know he got beat pretty good against center. It was four sets but it was like the first two were quick, he snuck out and then the fourth set was downhill, uh, skiing. Lost a demon. Uh, united Cup before that. Four and four, which is a pretty, you know, that's a. That's a straightforward win in professional tennis.

Speaker 1: 3:17

Uh, loses to Nardi um at Indian Wells. Uh, which is strange, you know, he goes all that way in 10 days of prep and the whole thing and then loses. And then in Monte Carlo he makes the semis which for you know the rest of us dummies is like it's the best result I ever had at a Masters 1000 on clay. Loses to Rude for the first time ever. Had never lost a set to Rude before that match, never lost a set to rude before that match.

Speaker 1: 3:48

Um, but more concerning was was like struggling with breathing. Uh, his, his match against demon. He was like struggling for air, um, you know, early in matches like 20, 25, 30 minutes in um. And then comes to Rome and you know there's, there's bottle gate and we don't know. Only he can tell us how he feels about that. But then goes out and kind of lays an egg, said it didn't even feel like it was me, you know, against Tabilo, who's, you know, a good player, but not Novak Djokovic. So there's, there's two things. One, he could figure it out Good thing about slams is you're not playing guys that are 25 in the world first round. Like you have time, you can get through some ugly matches, uh, so maybe he gets through that first week and turns into the Novak again.

Speaker 1: 4:37

Um, but and I say this, it's all based on the shadow that they've created. I say I feel, like I say it every week, I'm more concerned about his tennis game than I have been in in probably like 15 years. Um, you know, knowing that, maybe he just needs a bunch of us saying that. And to, you know, the, the, the, the kind of me against the world mentality that he has mastered, uh, over the course of his career. So, um, wouldn't surprise me if he played well at Roland Garros. But you know how long can we say, oh, he'll turn it around, like, no, he'll just definitely turn around, he's fine, he's Novak. Like I've been saying that the entire year, this one was weird. I thought he would. You know the ramp up. You're looking at the French Open. You're looking ahead towards Wimbledon. You're looking at he's said he's prioritized the olympics, you felt like the ramp up was coming and what he's kind of done before and that, uh, that wasn't a ramp up one.

Speaker 1: 5:30

I think the other crazy thing is that, you know, yannick center is only about a thousand points behind him for world number one well, so yannick center, if, if novak I want to say I'll get either if novak loses in the final, uh, center's number one, if he loses first round, center's number one.

Speaker 2: 5:49

So basically, center it's center center makes the semi-finals to become number one and novak loses in the final. Basically so, novak loses in the final, center needs to make the semis oh, I heard it was even well. No, that's what that's what the forbes article says I would almost argue with that.

Speaker 1: 6:05

I don't know if they know that he loses 2,000 points. If he loses the first round, 2,000 points are coming off immediately. So we'll see. But, sinner, at this point we're going to be arguing about which tournament he takes it over. There's an air of inevitability about it. I think Sinner becomes world number one. But the Novak story is is just kind of strange. So it's like you're seeing and that was on the heels of of of the Rafa match, which a dip in tennis form is easier to digest with Rafa at this point in his career because he's hasn't played much tennis in two years.

Speaker 1: 6:41

Lose to who be here Koch one in three First time. I, two years. Um. Lose to who be here Koch one and three Um first time. I think he's ever lost that lopsided in a clay court match. Um, he's just not getting from. He used to be able to get from defense to neutral in one shot, right, and he could do it over and over and over again. So all of a sudden you're playing six offensive shots and you're back at the starting point. That's what Rafa has been able to do on clay forever today. He's just not able to turn defense to neutral and then to get ahead, his offense looks okay. I mean, when he's getting the ball in the middle court he's able to kind of bully it around a little bit. I thought he served better in Rome this week than he had before in Rome this week than he had before. He's just not flipping defensive from the corners into neutral, start over Magoo, like he has been before. But Rafa leaving Rome and I don't know if anyone who has seen that clip of him basically walking over you basically walk from all the player areas over a bridge to get to transportation when you're leaving and Rafa walks over that bridge, I had to be 15,000 people just shouting his name.

Speaker 1: 8:01

Rafa also, when he left, wasn't in a great mood. They had some sort of like tribute ceremony on court that they were rolling out and he just walked off, which I thought was hilarious. No mas, he just had it of respected it because it was like you can know the reality of your body. You can be a pragmatist, which rafa is famously a pragmatist about where you are right now. Three weeks ago, he's like I don't even think I can win a pro match ever again. And then he won matches in madrid, won a match in rome, which had you told him that three weeks ago. To me like that's great expectations reset. He was pissed when he lost to her coach. Like he can know the factors, he can know what's going on. You get out there, blood boils, you're disappointed and you're pissed Like it's just we're not rational humans. We're not rational humans, not, not, not, not in the moment, but um, the tribute that the fans paid, uh to him, um, you know he's.

Speaker 1: 9:09

He's won 10 times in Rome, which is none. Of these stats made sense before these guys came along. Like it's just not a realistic thing. I mean, novak's won Rome six times. Like great times. Like great, great, great clay quarters win Rome twice. Maybe specialists where it's like this is this is these are the months that I live for during the year. These guys are different gravy. Uh, I have no idea what to expect from either one at Roland Garros, right, like bet against greatness at your own peril. But it'll be interesting. It'll be interesting to see what they bring. Maybe Novak needed this, maybe he needed to be the down and out and chip on the shoulder and dummies like me doubting for a second. I don't know. But that tribute to Rafa was phenomenal. I kind of like that he just left the court. That was kind of funny. It's like so un-Rafa-like that it made me chuckle.

Speaker 2: 10:09

He was like the rest of us for a second. So what can we expect from Roland Garros without these kind of big names? Well, yeah, I mean it's a weird transition in time.

Speaker 1: 10:13

Well, we were talking about it off air and it's like, okay, I'm going to write down, you know, forever and forever in a day, and I hope I framed this question the right way in a day, and I hope I frame this question the right way when was the last time you would have taken the field over like the three, uh favorites, right? So if I give you right now and the betting favorites I think right now are, are the four betting favorites are, uh, Alcaraz, and it was minus two, 10 yesterday. Novak at like minus 250. Sinner was like minus 350, and Rafa was the fourth favorite, still at minus 1,000. When was the last time that you would have taken the field over the four favorites? So you know, obviously, big three plus Murray, like you wouldn't have done that ever. You'd have been betting on like hackers like me against them. And then Carlos enters the conversation and then you're not betting against.

Speaker 1: 11:10

You know, remember going to the US Open last year, it's like, oh, it's Alcarez or Novak, there's no, there, there are no other players. Like that was the conversation. I mean, I think you're going back to like even, oh, three, I think you take like the four favorites against the field. Yeah, I mean I think you're going back to like oh two, like oh, the wimbledon was a mess in oh two. It was like everyone lost, hewitt won, but it was like malice russetsky, like a bunch of guys that were in the top 20. I, I think you're going back 22 years, like however far you're going back. That age can legally drink. That's how far back you're going I don't think.

Speaker 2: 11:47

Uh, techie sean was even alive techie sean, techie sean.

Speaker 1: 11:51

What people don't know is that techie sean is 15 years old and he does a great job, and it's weird because he's also married.

Speaker 2: 12:03

It's a joke legally, by the way, if anybody's listening. Yeah, yeah, don't use child labor yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:09

Yeah, we don't. He's, he's calm down, he's 16, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. Um, yeah, he was saying that. What would you say? You were saying, like, ever since you've been alive, like we look back to basically the last draw that didn't have the big three in it, and it was, uh, yeah, it was the aussie open 99, I think was, was the last time there wasn't one, and roger played roland garris for the first time in 99.

Speaker 1: 12:38

So you don't remember life without these guys. I was, I was born in 98, so that would have been a year old. Jesus, you missed it. Those are great days and they were terrorizing all of us. God, you're young, mike. I will say real quick and then we're going to get to. I want to get to this field conversation and how it affects it, but I also want to be distracted. We have a group text of our buddies and mike hayden goes oh my god, he sends this text the other day and he goes his wife is rose. She's awesome. Uh, she rose just called me a middle-aged white guy and it's like it was like crickets from the group and I'm like, okay, well, mike, why don't you tell us how old you are?

Speaker 2: 13:28

I'll be. I'll be four to the end of the month okay so I'm 39. I'm not technically, and you know, middle-aged.

Speaker 1: 13:34

Yet and you know the average. Okay, okay, you know the average age that a man lives to in this country, correct? Do you know that?

Speaker 2: 13:40

I'm in denial.

Speaker 1: 13:41

No it's 76 years, so I'm not great at math. The last time I went to school was like right when Sean was born, so by definition you are middle-aged.

Speaker 2: 14:03

And are you white?

Speaker 1: 14:05

Yes, I'm middle-aged by definition, so are you white? Yes, and I'm middle-aged by definition, so are you a middle-aged white guy?

Speaker 2: 14:10

Her commentary was correct.

Speaker 1: 14:11

You were so pissed I loved how pissed you were. It was as if she said I don't believe in gravity. It was as if she became a flat earther for a second.

Speaker 2: 14:22

You were that upset at like, the, the, the content that was coming out of her mouth, and I mean, the context was, as we were leaving, uh, the wells fargo golf tournament where it was the average yeah, just because you're younger than every other guy that's watching the golf tournament that you're leaving, doesn't mean that, like you skew the national average like for any reason.

Speaker 1: 14:47

Okay, anyways, I just thought of that and I was like I remember I was next to Brooke. Thank you for that. You were like Rose just called me. It's like you were tattling on her. I'm like it's a little on the nose. No one backed me up, no, but because of I tried a different text thread too, and they said the same thing because math yeah, yeah yeah, pretty much yeah, because math uh, so the saudis will sponsor it.

Speaker 1: 15:11

Yeah yeah, that's another, another lane, um, anyway. So, like at roland garros, it's going to be weird, because who are the favorites? I? I think like there's 15 guys that could convince themselves they can win this tournament. Right, you're looking at Kasper Ruud. He's made the last two finals. Hasn't played great in Madrid or Rome, made the final in Monte Carlo. Stefano Sitsipas wins Monte Carlo. Has been up two sets in a Roland Garros final before Rublev wins Madrid and is still alive in Rome as of when we're taping this. Like Taylor Fritz made the semis of Madrid, has made a final in Munich and is still alive in Rome. Like he can convince himself that he's got a shot here.

Speaker 1: 15:57

Medvedev has never played well at Roland Garros, but like is playing pretty good on clay Zverev, but like is playing pretty good on clay Zverev. Zverev can convince himself that he's one of the favorites. Now he has some off court distractions. He is is trial for domestic abuse starts that week, so he's going to be dealing with a lot of stuff and let's see how that shakes out Then comment on it. But you know, it's just there's so much weird stuff going on that has nothing to do with healthy tennis players in a draw. Dimitrov is playing well, like he can convince himself, I can be. In the last weekend of this tournament, karen Hatchinov has been in the semis of a slam before. I mean it's just crazy. How many names.

Speaker 2: 16:50

Could we see a run by any of these young guys coming up? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 16:54

I mean yes For this Roland Garros, yes, like would it shock you if Novak had a rough draw and like struggled in the first couple rounds based on he is better or worse? And I know everyone's gonna yell at me and I can't wait for you guys to tell me I'm full of shit and how much better he is than me. I get it. I understand that. I fully understand that. And also, there have never been more question marks about him the last 15 years going into a slam. Not if he can win, like he could win he could still win the tournament but he is trying to find something on a tennis court right now for the first time in a long time. And if you disagree with that, your head is in the sand. Your head's in the sand, like that's just denial. That doesn't mean that he can't win the tournament. Doesn't mean that he can't find it. There are more question marks about him entering the tennis arena right now to play the first round of a slam than there have than there has been going into any slam.

Speaker 2: 17:50

Um when you, when you were playing, when there were tournaments, big slams or one thousands, where you felt like kind of the favorites were a little hobbled or maybe not at the top of their game, what was the energy like in kind of the locker room backstage where everyone kind of felt like they had an opportunity like that was only like 18 months of my career.

Speaker 1: 18:09

That was only like, I mean, it's depressing, that was only like 18 months of my career, um, you know. And then they all happened, but, um, um, yeah, I, it's just different. I don't. I have a hard time even thinking about it because it was just such an alternate universe from how I played most of the slams, even when I was two going in. It was like Roger was an overwhelming favorite for five years, you know, um, so it's gotta be exciting, though. I mean, if I'm one of these coaches, I am drilling into my players right now Like the opportunity is knocking. It's time to turn the page, fuck history, not in a disrespectful way, but in a way that we're approaching a tournament. I can respect all the greatness and say it's fucking time, and I would be in my player's ear if I'm one of these 15 guys, uh, that I just named. But it's interesting because it's like the women's game has been wide open, where we've had a bunch of slam winners, and now it's almost flipped. Now we have, you know, four or five like favorites that are seemingly at the tail end of every tournament, and the men's side is like who's the favorite? Carlos Alcaraz, the betting favorite. He's missed two out of the three Masters 1000 and said he couldn't hit a forehand in the other one. He's missed two out of the three Masters 1000 and said he couldn't hit a forehand in the other one. He's a betting favorite. Right now it's open. It's like Taco Bell. Right now it's open 24-7. You can drive through. It's open, it's open.

Speaker 1: 19:37

The other weird thing in Rome this week is like people there's like some sickness going around where, post-madrid, sabalenka said she got something there. Rublev uh deserves more credit for his Madrid victory because he said like I was basically eating like mushy foods because I couldn't swallow because of tonsils. Rabakina said I caught something uh and pulled out of of Rome. You know it's it. Tennis is like a weird thing because it's like we're all in each other's spaces all the time, whether you're you know, locker room, player, dining players, lounge, you get one person to come into something. It can uh, it's not like, uh, like you're. You're like the Lakers, where it's like someone gets a bug and that team goes down Like the tight. The tournaments can go down and you know something was going around.

Speaker 1: 20:20

I don't know what it was, but Rublev deserved credit because apparently he was eating Gerber's baby food and it's. You know, it doesn't have that like positivity of competitiveness like a Rafa or a Sviatek, and I'm not saying he's that level of competitor, but I'm just saying, like, sabalenka is now a great competitor and she doesn't get enough credit for it because she loses her shit. You can simultaneously lose your shit and be a great competitor, and Rublev has shown us something the last 10 days. He's been unbelievable. Sabalenka too, but it just takes one person. Something's going around I think it's it was in Madrid and then maybe some carryover, but doesn't sound fun. These people aren't like soft. Like tennis players play with a lot of crap all the time.

Speaker 2: 21:25

The way Rublelo described it. He said his throat was completely blocked.

Speaker 1: 21:28

I mean like he said they were, like he thanked during his speech. He thanked the uh, the food prep people at Madrid for making him soft foods. It's like he like I. I just picture him like getting grips and strings out of his bag and a little mini blender.

Speaker 2: 21:47

I like can't even take my kid to school. When I like have a sniffles, I tell my wife I'm like dad, I'm like I can't.

Speaker 1: 21:52

That's because you're a little middle aged bitch Also, we'll wrap here and this is. This has obviously been racket rundown, uh, presented by Wilson I like your hat.

Speaker 1: 22:09

Thank you, wilson hat. Uh, you want to know what else they did? That was uh hilarious. So they sent uh, it's the first time I've gotten like stuff, like product, and forever I just haven't haven't done it. Uh, the taping they used said let it rip, tater chip on it and they sent. They sent my daughter Stevie a soccer ball, like a Wilson soccer ball, except they had like spray painted the Wilson on the side of it, like the from cast away. Because I said Wilson, it was pretty cool, it's a nice touch. Nice touch easily pleased in this house. Ragged Rundown presented by Wilson, kind of cool thing. And I don't think this has ever happened.

Speaker 1: 22:54

Last 16 of a Masters 1000 on the women's side, four mothers still in the draw on Mother's Day Osaka, svitolina, kerber, azarenka. Now, when you hear this, osaka will have been beat and others will have played, so maybe it'll be a little bit delayed, but that's pretty cool. Mother's Day, peak of women's sports for mother, 25% of the draw in Masters 1000 were mothers. That was, that was pretty cool. I just imagine all their kids going, your mom's in the round of 16. Your mom is I don't have anything else, I don't think mike, I think that's, I think that's it. Uh, I hope you. Um, it seems like you're coming to terms with being middle-aged. Um, the good news is I'll always be a little older than you yeah um, I'm not quite as broken up about it.

Speaker 1: 23:45

I'm more of a realist, apparently.

Speaker 2: 23:47

I thought it was okay about it. Apparently, I'm not.

Speaker 1: 23:49

Sean was born in 1998.

Speaker 2: 23:52

Good God.

Speaker 1: 23:53

Fuck me, that's too much. It's too much. You know who was awesome and you're going to hear it in this later in this audio pod. She aired on T2 show was Danielle Collins. She joined us and she's like listen, listen in later in this, this episode. She was, she was phenomenal. And she just reached out to social Sophie on Instagram and like saw a clip, was like I'm going to come on. I'm like great, it was phenomenal. How happy were you?

Speaker 2: 24:27

I was pretty pumped up. I mean the fact that she doesn't have we've had players active players reach out to us, but it's always through like a representative or management and she's just like gave us a follow and then was like hey, I'd love to come on and we're like it was. I was like are we being trolled? This is unbelievable.

Speaker 1: 24:43

We literally was like is this real Social Soviet? Is like, hey, I think Daniel Collins just like what, what did she do? Well, she just reached out on Instagram and said that she wanted to come on. I'm like is this real? And then it's, the thing is like, okay, how do I guess just give her my number and tell her to reach out. I don't know, it could have been. Give her my number and tell her to reach out. I don't know, it could have been. I mean, it could have been a fake account for sure, but she was on, she was on video, it was her. It was her. She knew all of the things about Daniel Collins.

Speaker 2: 25:13

And she confirmed. Yeah, she confirmed. She has a small team, so it all makes sense.

Speaker 1: 25:17

Yeah, listen to the interview, but she's so flattered middle-aged fandom before we get to our our I guess our bigger guest this week, daniel collins, no offense, john wertheim. Uh, john wertheim is next. Uh, we're going to talk some usta stuff and uh, dominic team announces his retirement, so we're going to digest that and uh, and give our thoughts. Uh, john wertheim, john are you? Are you back in america? Where the hell are you, john?

Speaker 3: 25:42

back in america actually getting me in the office today, which is rare. Yeah, you've given me a big delta for a terrible show or the best show ever, so the range of outcome is pretty significant here.

Speaker 1: 25:55

Talk to me about this US team photo. It was basically I saw it once a huge team photo, but with all the US players right, male, female, coco was there, a bunch of the guys were there. It looked like the most glorious 25-person Roman meal. What was this? You said you had some tidbits on it.

Speaker 3: 26:16

Yeah, it's funny. This surprisingly went viral. I don't know if we thank our friend Eric Budarak. This was actually issued by the USTA and this is a nice sort of image, a nice gesture, of the team atmosphere that's been built. And we remember from United Cup there was group text and everybody's giving everyone else grief, and here in Rome probably didn't hurt that the USTA was clearly picking up the tab on this dinner. But we have this photo that I'm sure we'll put in our show notes. You say younger players, older players men, women and I don't know. I mean sure we'll put in our show notes. You say younger players, older players men, women and I don't know. I mean we'll start with you. I mean how is this rare? I mean, would you ever have done this in your day? I don't think. You know, mcenroe and Connors and Chrissy and that generation are all going out to dinner. But I don't know. You tell me and then I'll tell you something else.

Speaker 1: 27:00

Well, the men and women also used to pretty much only see each other at slams, so that that, that that's a big part of it. I was thinking, oh, I don't know that. You know, I I became friends with Lindsay post career and then I'm like I became, I knew Serena from childhood but like we were never at the same tournaments, like in Rome, uh, randomly, um, they could have applied whatever they paid for that meal to player development. Um, that would have been cool, but I think it's great, I think it's phenomenal. I don't think it was always the case.

Speaker 1: 27:29

I think proximity wins in a lot of friendships, just in life and in tennis also. But we were pretty regular, especially on kind of not slam-ish weeks, james Marty and I, the bride, like we would genepri, we would, we would go to dinner probably once a week, um, when we were on tour, and especially if we had a rule that if, if someone won a tour title, then they had to pay for the next week's dinner. So, uh, everyone got on the uh, the text chain very quickly if someone had a good result. Uh, congrats to you and congrats to us I think you got.

Speaker 3: 28:05

You got the uh, you got the raw end of that one. But no, I mean, I think tennis is a sport of duality, right, there are two sides of the net and there's a dialectic, there's a dichotomy to everything. So this goes out at this nice display of this real sort of bonding atmosphere, this team atmosphere that's been built. But there is a conspiracy going around that you will note that this was issued by the USTA.

Speaker 3: 28:29

We've spoken on previous shows about the premier tour and about some of the fissures and fractures within tennis and some of the political battles, and to some, this has been interpreted as the USTA sending a message to the tours, shot across the bow, essentially saying look what kind of relationships we have with the players. We can gather everybody. Look what sort of unity we've built. We don't need these tours, we can communicate with these players directly. And this has been interpreted and I've heard this from this isn't just one conspiracy theory. I've heard this from two different places that the USTA is the one that issued this photo and this was some sort of political statement and some way of saying to the tours we have connections, we have relationships with these players.

Speaker 3: 29:16

Don't think you can interfere with them. We can gather everyone at the drop of a hat for a dinner. Bear that in mind if you're going to mess with us in these political battles. So that's tennis in a nutshell for you. You have a nice team picture. It gets construed like a Kremlin image. That is like Taylor Swift lyrics. There's like double meanings in there. But no, this photo went viral. It's a very nice picture and I think it does speak to a certain team atmosphere that's been built, but it has been construed in some quarters as a political message sent by the USTA.

Speaker 1: 29:49

All right, well, welcome to the tinfoil hat edition of Served. So there was a lot in there and many words were said, and my counter is two words, actually three, sorry, sorry or free dinner right, or it was uh beverages. Beverages included, you'll note, yeah and wine, but or it was, or it was a, or it was a free dinner, um right, I don't know I ask tennis for you.

Speaker 1: 30:16

If I'm like the saudi tour and everything else, I'm going. Okay, let's get a dinner with alcaraz center. Uh, you know, I I every one that play Coco was in the middle of that photo, but I don't know. If the PR campaign is, we can have dinner.

Speaker 3: 30:35

I've heard.

Speaker 1: 30:37

I've heard of bigger moves made. I think the simpler version is probably hey, listen, we have fun every January. Let's have dinner a couple times during the year. Keep the continuity. We enjoy each other's company. This is a fun photo because we're all together. I enjoyed seeing it. And Eric Buderak I want to get him on the pod, actually before the US Open Player services at the US Open. He does a phenomenal job.

Speaker 1: 31:03

Played on tour, played doubles on tour. My uh, my last loss, um actually went from being Del Potro at the U S open to playing doubles with Marty fish in Atlanta, winning a match and then having Erdek Buderak be the last person who beat me um ever, uh, in a doubles match. So still kind of bitter. I kind of tend to think it was like a free dinner, um, but cool, I thought. I think. I think that's a really nice thing. Um, obviously, uh, you don't. You don't gather at that amount of scale if you don't generally like everyone uh at the at the table. So I think I think it's really cool. This other, you know if, if that means if that was like a moving a chess piece in this battle for negotiation. I just hope they have a more powerful chess piece, you get a plate of pasta.

Speaker 3: 31:56

But but also, I mean, don't you think also seriously this? I mean, first of all, kudos to the USTA for building this environment, kudos to the players, but also, I think this is why this is another reason why we don't love them at two weeks, but this is another reason why these joint events work. You and I have talked about how there should be some sort of an all-star weekend. Tennis is at its best when men and women are competing simultaneously, and the more integration, not just at tournaments but socially like this, the better. So, uh, I'm with you. I'm merely pointing out that, given tennis is fractured, balkanized infighting, even a team photo can be construed as a political play. But anyway, carry on.

Speaker 1: 32:35

Yeah, if I'm on the other side of that and I see that photo and that's their big strategy meeting and there's not a single agent or manager in the picture.

Speaker 1: 32:41

I'm feeling pretty good about myself. Just, you know, just all cards on the table. Um, let's talk. Uh, dominic team. Um, I've I've talked about him a little bit on on tc live this week. Uh, obviously, um, post us open 2020 win. Um, which was a huge win. I don't think we thought we thought. I think we always thought the french open was going to be the one. You know, he was the guy like oh, when Rafa stops, this is going to be his, his tournament, and he just didn't quite get there. Obviously, I can relate to trying to have to go through one of the greats, best services to try to get the title that you want the 2020 US Open. You know he, he broke through.

Speaker 1: 33:30

I would like to talk about what led up to that, as opposed to what's happened since the. What's happened since part of it is very simple. The next year, he caught a stinger wrist injury. He never recovered. He was not able to create any sort of speed on his forehand, where he used to play bully ball and go after it. The serve and the forehand, uh, to a lesser extent, the backhand. Um, we're just missing. Um, and what happens when you have to lay off of a forehand. Uh, I went from being able to hit a forehand hard to shoulder injury and then all of a sudden, I hit this little spinny magoo thing that I had to learn to. You know, dance with um also, and what that does is it drives traffic and people are, instead of Dominic team playing aggressively on the backhand side, hitting that magical one hander with speed, all of a sudden he's having to play defense on it, uh, because he can't get the speed on his forehand. And that's what we saw, uh, for the last four years.

Speaker 1: 34:20

And his, his level of professionalism phenomenal. His attitude, always great, going from someone who's three in the world, having won a slam, to fighting to be in the top hundred, but also always having respect for your opponent, not showing them up, showing up day to day, still putting in the hard yards. I think that the four years since the US Open has showed me more great things about his character and his professionalism than maybe I knew before or took for granted before. But to work and work and work, and work and work and not be able to break through against Rafa on clay or, you know, at a US Open, and then to get that moment and take your chance. And you know the the, the U S open one final was probably the ugliest final that's ever been played in the finals of a of a slam. But W right, you work and work and work. He's played better matches at French open finals that he's lost. But but I respect the work, the process, the way that he went about it.

Speaker 1: 35:28

I think he's like six foot one and would consistently bully people around the court. Maybe he's two, but not one of these giants. Guy could just create speed. He could put a hurt on the ball um, just post wrist injury. It just wasn't the same. Uh, what am I missing here, john?

Speaker 3: 35:43

Um, that's, that's very well said. Keep that US Open final zero crowd, which may have had an impact on the appeal. But no, I agree. Three things real quick 2012 French Open. There is a kid from Austria who's a practice partner of Ernest Golbis. They're practicing right outside the Tennis Channel compound and someone says keep an eye on this kid, he's a good player and he works like an animal. Ernest Golbis gets eliminated. You know who stays at Roland Garros and keeps playing every single day, three-hour practices on that same court Dominic Thiem, absolute animal of a worker.

Speaker 3: 36:17

I don't know if he ever got enough credit for that 16-19 against the big three. Remember the two-day takedown of Novak at the French Open? I mean, apart from winning that major, he accomplished an awful lot during a very rich time for men's tennis. Whoopi Goldberg notwithstanding. You ever see, if you want a fun little YouTube digression, whoopi Goldberg, dominic Thiem, don't no one know who you are. Dominic Thiem, it's a great riff. Whoopi goldberg, not worth standing.

Speaker 3: 36:47

Nobody did not like this guy. Um, it's very easy to say oh so, and so's a good guy. I mean literally the fondness that he was able to, uh, to generate. I mean this this is somebody who was liked by his peers, liked by the media. Even he'd have these coaching breakups and even those later they would say what a good guy he was. This is someone who really acquitted himself well, and I like what you say too. You can reveal yourself in triumph. You can reveal yourself in adversity.

Speaker 3: 37:16

He did not win another title of any size after winning that first major right. It's his fourth major final finally wins it. You think, oh, okay, the keg has been tapped and now here we're going to start. Really, he's 26 years old, he's in the prime of his career, finally won a major. The three guys that kept thwarting him are older. He didn't win a single tournament and he was not bitter. He kept showing up at these events. He was congenial when you'd run into him. He did some work for Tennis Channel. Lovely guy. It's not a dissimilar conversation to what we have about Muguruza a few weeks ago, right. I mean maybe they didn't max out their talent, maybe sort of they had some physical setbacks, some mental setbacks. It wasn't a straight line of a career, but a real credit to the sport there will be. You know he'll be missed. You wish him well. And he won a major. So, all things told, successful career Producer Mike.

Speaker 2: 38:12

So a guy like this, who's loved by everyone, you know clearly comes from a tennis family, has tennis coaching in his blood. What's next for him? You know? Only 30 years old, Do you? Think he sticks around the tour and picks up coaching.

Speaker 1: 38:24

Who knows. It's a weird thing and it's hard to predict, like, like, in a weird way, I see a lot of the guys who absolutely hated playing and would like tank matches, and I got in trouble for saying this on twitter. Another controversial thing I said is that I'm always surprised at the coaching boxes being guys that, like, tanked their way through decades, uh, and didn't really want to be out there always, and seem to end up back in the coaching box. Um, I don't know is is is the question. We'll see how good he is on tv. Um, obviously, if he is okay, then he's gonna have a job for for many, many years, uh, especially probably somewhere, uh, in europe.

Speaker 1: 39:00

Super respected um seems to be a, a level-headed, rational person. So, if you're looking for former players to step into leadership positions, it seems like he was good enough to understand what the top of the mountain looks like, but also, you know, wasn't number one in the world or wasn't someone that dominated the tour who lost all sense of reality with for what was going on um behind the scenes. So I hope good things, but you never know. I feel like you know, I, I feel like sometimes I'm the only person that's not instantly back out on the road doing something. It'll be interesting. It seems like most people gravitate towards getting back out there, but we'll see. Do you have any sort of opinion on that, jw? What's next for him?

Speaker 3: 39:45

Yeah, I mean it's true he's from a tennis family. I know his family had worked with this kid Offner, this Austrian player. I think coaching is realistic. I'm not sure I mean that wrist injury. We talked about hips last week. I'm not sure he's relatively young to be retiring. I'm not sure I would predict a comeback necessarily. I'm not sure there's an unretirement in his future. But this is someone who loved tennis Again, the work ethic, the background. I think you're probably right. Whether it's coaching or commentating, he'll probably stick around. I mean it's probably conversation.

Speaker 3: 40:16

For another point, it's really interesting to try and predict which players are going to somehow reemerge in tennis and which you'll never see again. And there's very little. I found there's very little predictability to it. Some players who you think are all too happy to get out of there and start career 2.0, 18 months later you see them, you know, in the suites or trying to sort of grovel for a coaching job. And then there are other players who love tennis. They were totally into it. You know Justine Henn. I mean there's some players. Martina Hingis love tennis. Tennis IQ is always sort of part of the scene. You don't really see her much. So it's very little predictability to what players return in some capacity and what don't.

Speaker 1: 40:54

Yeah, one thing I wasn't surprised about this week and one thing I was Dominic Thiem announcing his retirement. He had said given us a preview in January. He said something along the lines of if I'm still 100 by the end of the year, I don't really have interest in doing this at a hundred in the world, which I understand, um, and now he's one 20 or one 17, whatever it is so turning the wrong way. Uh, kind of called a shot, uh. But one thing I was surprised at was the multiple whoopie Goldberg references during the breakdown of Dominic team's retirement. So thank you for that. Uh, john, worth time. We will, uh, we'll catch you next week and next the danimal let's go. The danimal producer mike can't even sit. Still. We'll be right back with the danimal, daniel collins. All right, welcome back to the served podcast. Uh, mike producer. Mike, this is a big day for you, I don't. I don't want to make it weird, um, but we have your favorite player in tennis, big time fan, the Danimal is joining us on served.

Speaker 1: 42:03

Uh Danielle, how are you?

Speaker 4: 42:06

I'm good, mike. I didn't know I was your favorite player so this is great.

Speaker 4: 42:11

Um, yeah, I'm super excited to come on the podcast. I mean, I've heard that I've been in a lot of the discussions and um have enjoyed listening to some of the podcasts, so I'd love to. I wanted to get on here and um, especially after um. You know, andy was my first doubles partner. Um, yeah, fun fact andy doesn't remember it, but um, yeah, I think I was like 10 or 11 years old careers kids foundation. I was part of his little group in st pete, florida. Um and andy came to do a exhibition and I got to go on court with you and play doubles and I did get the photos from my mom. My mom's not the most tech savvy person, so we might have to have those scanned, but yeah, we do have the footage, so we're going to have to share that with the viewers. Yeah, so thank you for having me on the podcast. You were one of my favorite players and I'm embarrassed to say this, but I used to because your manager kept in touch with me.

Speaker 4: 43:09

After, like, I got to play with you and he would congratulate me on all my little tournaments, so I obviously became a huge fan and I would clip out your articles and when you have the fastest serve and my mom has the little notes and the you know those scissors with like the weird shapes, and I would cut it out in a heart and I put wow, andy, 153 miles an hour.

Speaker 1: 43:33

Love you. This is actually skin lasering. It's not me blushing, just so we're clear. But yeah, so producer Mike is very upset that you told that story because I, to give you background, we basically started this podcast and no one on our team really knows anything about tennis. Uh, producer Mike comes from UFC NFL and so has become a tennis fan. You know, in the last four months understood majors, but he's like all danimal all the time loves theves the Danimal. It's the energy.

Speaker 2: 44:09

It transcends tennis.

Speaker 4: 44:12

Is it similar to the UFC a little bit?

Speaker 2: 44:14

Yeah, yeah, actually, yes, you are Actually yeah.

Speaker 4: 44:17

That's funny.

Speaker 2: 44:18

You wear it on your sleeve and I love it.

Speaker 1: 44:20

I actually wanted to add, because I was on TC Live last week with Coco Vandewey and it's weird, because the way she explains your energy on air she's like you win Miami, you show up in Charleston, you're kind of solo and you're like, oh, I don't know, We'll give it a go, and then you go win that tournament too. So it feels like there's kind of like a laid back thing off of the court. But that is not what it looks like when you are on the court. It is very intense. Is that an accurate portrayal of the two? Are they opposites?

Speaker 4: 44:53

Yeah, I mean I feel like I'm totally opposite on the court versus away from the court, I mean, and a lot of times when I'm away from the court I'm like, wow, I really don't know how I'm cut out to do this, because I think sometimes I'm too laid back.

Speaker 4: 45:09

But then when I get on the court I really channel like the physicality and the emotional energy that I need to play with, and I think it takes a lot of people by surprise because I mean I'm definitely not like a stereotypical tennis personality, especially like on the women's side, and certainly not Miss Goody Two Shoes and nor do I try to be that. I have a big personality and I feel like growing up as a kid I was always in different like clinics and groups and playing at the park against like the 4.5, 5.0 men and a lot of that is like banter and even though I don't get to do that, like when I'm playing professional matches, I feel like a lot of times I'm certainly thinking it and I think that comes out on court. You know, I even banter with myself or banter with like people on the crowd and for me it's all fun and games.

Speaker 4: 46:09

I mean I think, for sometimes people watching they're very offended wow, I mean um, I think everyone's offended about everything like it's understand like me and they don't really like know me away from the courts to know that, like most of the time, I'm just joking.

Speaker 1: 46:27

It is interesting because you say it's different and it's so funny how people can consume people's on court behavior, Right? So I think of Andy Murray, who's like on the court. He is all of those things yelling at his box, doing all these things. Then off the court is one of the most intelligent. Laid back kind of calm, you don't see him get worked up about anything. Laid back kind of calm, you don't see him get worked up about anything, and it's just this.

Speaker 1: 46:56

You know, I'm kind of easier off the court than I was on the court, I had a little bit of Danimo, where I would just like to yell at random Spanish fans when I was playing in Madrid. But it is interesting kind of how that manifests in the way people view you, even if it's just not the way you live 97% of your life.

Speaker 4: 47:13

Yeah, you know, and that's the thing is like you can do the right thing 99.9% of the time, but whenever there is that 0.1% where you're a little fiery or a little spicy, or you stick up for yourself when it's warranted, you're a little fiery or a little spicy, or you stick up for yourself when it's warranted, um, you know, people love to, you know, give you a hard time for it, and I think that's part of like being a successful person, being a successful athlete. Of course, like if you're not getting criticized, you're, you're not doing something right. So I think the criticism speaks to the success and to all of the hard work you put into your career, because you wouldn't be getting criticized if you weren't doing good. So I try to tell myself that. But, yeah, it's like you said, like Andy, I totally get what you're saying about Andy and I think, too, people have to remember, with Andy, I mean he's in a lot of physical agony out there sometimes.

Speaker 4: 48:13

I mean, especially in the men's matches, these, you know, five setters that go for hours and hours and hours, and when you have a couple of injuries that you've been dealing with and chronic health stuff, like it's not easy, it's not easy. And, of course, like you're not going to be going out there with a big grin on your face and, and you know, just going. Oh, thank you, and I'm just so grateful. You're going to have moments where you're mopey and things don't feel good and you might be griping a little bit. That's just part of it. It's like that in any profession, but I think in our lives we have the cameras on us and then you have the people sitting in their basement judging I want to give Marie all the credit in the world.

Speaker 1: 48:48

I'm effusive. I think he's probably the highest IQ guy that I ever played Um, which in that generation is certainly saying something. But uh, he was just as mopey when he was 20 and healthy. I'll tell you that much right now, like I'll just we're putting on the table. But I love Murray, I think he's, I think he's the best, but he's the example I use as someone who is just very, very different than the way you would think he is based on the way he presents on the court in all the best ways, considerate, aware, all of those things in your storyline is is so interesting because in the history of time I don't know that I can remember someone saying, okay, this is it, this is my last year, and then playing the best they've potentially ever played, like I think that is the the hook.

Speaker 1: 49:44

I told producer Mike that my family, my kids, my wife, wife, aren't really that knowledgeable about tennis. My wife barely liked watching when I was playing Um, but we were. It was uh, when you were playing the final of Miami um, we have like a Sunday dinner where my wife's parents come over and we all kind of go out and I was like, hang on, I want to watch, I want to watch the end of this match. I have to watch this. It's such a cool story and I started kind of explaining. You know that you had said this was your last year and then you got on this run and this was like a huge tournament and would be the biggest title you had won.

Speaker 1: 50:16

And then we talked about the way that you kind of play. It draws people in the emotion that you use. It's digestible for not just tennis fans but just humans, right, people that maybe like sports, and I have an eight-year-old and a six-year-old. They sat down and were dialed in. They could kind of feel your emotion each time. My in-laws were there, my wife was there and it was just. I think the story is so unique. Walk us through how it's been from your perspective, from saying this is it to the whirlwind that was Miami, charleston and the level that you've reached kind of since that announcement was made in January.

Speaker 4: 50:59

Yeah, well, I mean, following up my retirement announcement with two titles definitely has felt good, and I mean I think everyone has a different way they envision going out with their career, but I want to go out playing my best tennis. Obviously, I've spoken about my goals outside of the court and want to start a family and have kids, and that process starts a little bit earlier for me because of some of the health challenges that I've had and, and you know, I I feel like, in a lot of ways, um, I've been on tour forever. I I'm like wow, I really feel like I've been out here for ages. And then, in other ways, I'm like wow, back in 2017, I wasn't even in like main draws of slams, like I was just getting out of college, just getting my pro career started, playing a lot of ITF tournaments and building my ranking. So, you know, I look at some of the girls that are a lot younger than me and they have a lot more experience, some of them, than I do because they have been playing longer. But at the same time, I'm just kind of at that period of my life where I'm ready for the next chapter and you know, I think a lot of um, people have been really taken back by the level that I've played at the last couple of months.

Speaker 4: 52:16

But I really think, um, a lot of times, when you make little improvements here and there and then you start to piece it all together, it makes all of the difference in the world. And I think that that's kind of what happened is, I lost some close matches at the end of last year and the beginning of this year against IGA in Australia, matches coming down to just a few points, a few games, a few shots that I missed by this much, and a few shots that my opponents may have made by this shot, this much. So, you know, I just kind of feel like at this point I've been working so hard at improving little areas of my game, just by like 2%, 5%, like just little by little, and I think it's just all come together for me. And finally, I felt like some of the things that I've struggled with on court with my tactics and technically, I've been able to figure out. And I think part of figuring out some of this later in my career is because, you know, I do travel by myself a lot. I do get to have the help of lots of people that I'm close to, but I don't always have a consistent team around me, and so a lot of the evolution of my game has been figuring things out on my own.

Speaker 4: 53:40

I haven't, you know, had like the same consistent voices and messaging over the years and have worked with different people at different times, and I feel like I've had to kind of figure out, okay, like how can I, you know, start making some of these shots and high pressure moments and how can I get more consistent at hitting it, like this close to the baseline or this close to the side of the singles line, and hitting those shots accurately in big moments and having the confidence to do it. That's been the biggest game changer, I think, for me is those shots that I used to miss. I've been hitting more consistently, and in the days that don't go my way, like my last match against Irina in Madrid I was missing some of those shots and she was also making some of those shots in those small margins. So it just came down to a few points here and there. But you know, the thing with women's tennis too is we have such strong depth across the board. It's like every week you play you have to really show up mentally and physically, and I think that's been a challenge. If I'm being honest, I think over the years, with my health challenges, I've had to become more creative in how to work around those challenges.

Speaker 4: 54:54

I think there's been times where I have overtrained. I think there's times where, you know, I wasn't probably doing the right things taking care of my body and I just wasn't aware of, like, what are the things that work for me and what are the things that don't work for me, and it's been a bit of a learning curve. I haven't, like I said, I haven't been on tour that long compared to a lot of the other players my age, and so it's finally, I'm finally clicking for me, and it's pretty late in my career for this to be happening. I wish, you know, in some ways, that would have happened a little bit earlier, but at least when I'm all done at the end of the year, I can look back and say, wow, you know, I I really, like you know, put my best effort to try to figure these things out and and get the most out of myself as an athlete. So I'm I'm really proud of the improvements I've made, even though I would have liked them to happen a little earlier.

Speaker 1: 55:46

Well, mean, you say earlier, but obviously you went to college and I want to, I want to talk through that process as well. But you kind of started playing on. You mentioned 2017 in the minors and you kind of skipped the part where, early in 2018, you make a semi quality and semi in miami and then all of a sudden you're in a slam final not too many years later. A slam semi and then, and then followed up with a slam final.

Speaker 4: 56:07

So it was like semifinals, quarterfinals, finals, so yeah I mean it's building, hopefully building to the next one.

Speaker 1: 56:13

So that's it. Yeah, yeah, exactly that would be. That'd be a hell of a send-off. Uh, I'll tell you that now. But, um, yeah, talk, talk us through kind of the decision, uh, to go to college first and then to win the NCAAs and then stay right. Is that something that took up a lot of your thoughts. Should I stay? Should I go? How hard was it to know? Kind of the right time to make the next step and take a swing at professional tennis.

Speaker 4: 56:45

Yeah, well, it's really interesting. I look back on so much of my collegiate career and say, wow, like so many like crazy turns and different events. And I mean I have to start off by saying you know, I went to University of Florida my freshman year and I joined a team that had won a lot of national championships. They had won a national championship the year before. I think they were adding me and another freshman onto the team and I think they were only losing one senior, so they basically had the same team that they had from the year before and I played some of the individual tournaments in the fall and then in the spring I was playing, I think, six in the lineup and only played a few matches. I played maybe like two or three matches, I think, and then I wasn't playing in the lineup, and so at the time it honestly didn't feel that shocking because our team was so good and a lot of the you know, aside from the other freshmen, I was on the team with.

Speaker 4: 57:51

It was a lot of juniors and seniors that had the experience of winning a national championship and I was like, okay, like I get it seniority, like they've already won the national championship, like we have such a great team and we almost won the national championship that year. We lost to Stanford in the semis in a really close match, but it kind of like wasn't all that surprising that I that I wasn't playing in the lineup, but I obviously had some motivation and desire to kind of build a good career for myself and I kind of felt like, okay, if I stay here, it's gonna be like 5050 on whether I'm going to be able to play in the lineup or not, because like that's a crazy thing to hear.

Speaker 1: 58:29

That's so strong and like it's a crazy thing to hear you say.

Speaker 4: 58:33

It's a crazy thing to hear you say like I don't know if I'll play in the lineup on a on a college team yeah, and I think you know, I think it's safe to probably say that the coach at that time you, you know I was definitely not the favorite and like that plays into stuff as well.

Speaker 4: 58:51

And um, and like, yeah, I'm not for everyone, so like I totally get it. But um, yeah, I wanted to go somewhere that I knew I could play in the lineup or like have a shot. And, um, I decided after a year I was like, okay, I think I need to make a switch, and it ended up being the best thing for me. I got to, you know, go out of state, go to University of Virginia, one of the best schools in the country, not just in sports, but academics as well, which is huge for me, because I wasn't always like the greatest student in high school, middle school, I wasn't like super high achiever in the classroom and for me to be able to get into a school like UVA and and then eventually graduate from a school that's so prestigious, it really helped my self confidence. I don't think that everyone has to go to college. I certainly think it helps you by getting to have, like, different experiences and it gives you time to grow up, gives you time to make mistakes, it gives you, um, the environment of being on a team, especially when you play sports, and having teammates and coaches that are supportive of you. But, um, yeah, for me it was the best thing because I wasn't physically or emotionally like mature enough and evolved enough to be a professional tennis player. I didn't have like the self-confidence in myself to be like, okay, I can really do well and and make a living playing professional tennis. Like I kind of thought, okay, maybe I could get to like 300 or 400 in the world, like I think that that would be feasible, but you're not making a living doing that. And I was thinking I'm like, well, yeah, if I'm gonna do this, I want to be able to, you know, not making a living doing that. And I was thinking I'm like, well, yeah, if I'm going to do this, I want to be able to, you know, not go into debt over it.

Speaker 4: 1:00:34

I didn't come from financial opportunity. My mom was a preschool teacher and my dad had a small landscaping business and you know, I did not grow up with much and I think in order to have a tennis career, you have to have some type of financial support and not coming from financial opportunity, I think college gave me a great um. They were able to kind of help me um with the resources that I needed to start my um career and I had some great mentorship through that and, um. You know, if I hadn't gone to college I wouldn't have connected with with those people.

Speaker 4: 1:01:21

So it w it ended up really working out for me, um, in the best way possible and it really gave me time, like I said, to evolve and mature physically and emotionally, because I was not ready at like 16, 17 years old. I don't think tennis players get enough credit for how hard this environment can be and the challenges that come along with one running a business but also managing the pressures not only from yourself but your family, those around you, the world right and living your life in the public eye is also not always an easy thing to navigate through, especially as a young, young kid. So I'm really grateful that I had those years to kind of mature and develop like a strong resilience, because you have to have a thick skin in this sport You're not going to make it very far. So I needed those years to become tougher.

Speaker 1: 1:02:21

Yeah, no-transcript, top hundred right, which is essentially what you need to make a living right. Um on on tour. You need to get into the slams to to end up. You know cashing paychecks a little bit. And now I mean, you saw my good friend James Blake goes to four in the world, isn't? Her goes to I forget what eight or nine in the world wins a master's 1000. Ben Shelton comes out and he's already top 15. Even Peyton Stearns turns it around quickly to where she's somewhere around the top 50 right now. Danimal comes out and all of a sudden, hey.

Speaker 4: 1:03:28

Emma Navarro too. Emma Navarro gosh.

Speaker 2: 1:03:31

I can't get in trouble with her again.

Speaker 1: 1:03:33

Yeah, so Emma Navarro also. But it just seems like you're in a weird way and I promise this has a point in a weird way, the progress that you all have created and I think it basically gives, gives, it has the potential to give someone the confidence that maybe you were lacking when you were first in college. It's like, okay, wait a minute, like I can do this college. If I'm successful here, I can be a top 10 player right, whereas when I was first on tour, I didn't view anyone who was a a junior or senior in college as good enough to to that. Is that something you ever think about? Where, like, maybe I can change the mind of someone who is, you know, going to follow in my footsteps of going to college, or is that? Is that too macro?

Speaker 4: 1:04:20

Yeah, I mean I hope that I've offered some level of inspiration, but I mean, I just think it goes to show like anyone, no matter if they're playing professional tennis, tennis or really in any industry industry standard sometimes isn't like the best thing. Sometimes it can be a great standard to set, but I think this industry standard of where, oh, like, you need to turn pro at 13, 14, 15 years old and you need to have a Nike contract, or you need to have a racket contract, it by the time you're 18 and you need to have an agent, and all these things, I just, um, I feel like when you're that young, you're, it's so hard to make those decisions for yourself. Um, and unless you have a really great support system around you, you're putting in so much hard work, so much effort. You're getting compensated very well at the highest level, at the you know, middle of the road. Like you know, these people that are outside of the top 100 are also at a very playing at a very, very high level. They're not getting compensated very well and barely able to make a living, which is a whole nother discussion and issue. But that's a lot of pressure to have on yourself and if you don't have the right support system to be able to help you navigate through that, good luck. It's a lot of stress and anxiety and I think, if you're on the fence of, okay, should I go to college or should I turn pro? I don't think going to college is ever a bad thing and I think certainly when you have the opportunity, like I did. I earned a scholarship and was able to have it all paid for and had great coaches that you know pushed me and challenged me and helped me evolve as a player so that I could have a better career once I got out there and have the confidence, because it also helps when you know, okay, if this doesn't work out, I can go and I have the capability to do something else.

Speaker 4: 1:06:17

My first year that I was traveling on tour, I said to myself you know, if I'm not, if I'm not in the top 150 after a year, I need to really reconsider this. I was about 150. And like, if I'm not top 100 in the next six months, yeah, I'm going to law school and I was traveling around with my LSAT book and I remember, after I made qualifying at Indian Wells, I went through qualifying, won a few rounds there, had a win over Madison Keys LLs. I went through qualifying, won a few rounds there, had a win over Madison Keys, one of my biggest wins in the beginning of my career. I threw the book out. I'm like I think I can make a living doing this. I'm pretty confident now, but it's hard in the beginning and if you're a young kid and you don't, like I said, have the resources around you, it just makes I couldn't deal with that type of anxiety.

Speaker 1: 1:07:10

So I'm, I'm, I'm gathering Cause you said if I'm not one, 50, then I'm going to stop, and you're one 50. Uh, if I'm not 100, I'm going to stop, and you get to a hundred, and then you say you're retiring and then start playing. Great, I just think you need to set deadlines for everything.

Speaker 4: 1:07:24

I know, yeah, it's a good point you make. Maybe I should start setting some deadlines, you know, maybe I'll have to push my retirement even sooner.

Speaker 1: 1:07:33

If I don't win a major by mid-June, I'm going to stop. I think you work well under a deadline. Are we out? Sorry, mike's showing that. Okay, I just got a little flash. We can. We can edit that out. Um, one of the other things that I I find like fascinating, and that is that you do that is uh kind of weird. Uh, by by tour standards, is you travel alone like a lot right, like you go and you kind of just do what you're that. That is like how does that come about, or is it just the way to? Is there a reason for it? You just don't like anyone, or what, what, how, why, what's? What's the reason for that?

Speaker 4: 1:08:11

Um, I definitely think I am an introverted extrovert. Um, I think I'm an introvert in a lot of ways. I can be outgoing and talk to people, but, um, if it comes down to like how I recharge and reset after long days at the courts and long matches and a long season, I think I do my best, having like my space, and you know how it is when you're traveling with people and traveling with a big team, and traveling with a big team, it's not they're there to support you, yes, but you're also there to support them in a lot of ways, and I don't think people understand that us, as tennis players, are also running a small business and that can be. It's a lot, and for me, I feel like I, in the beginning of my career, I traveled a little bit by myself and kind of. And for me, I feel like I, in the beginning of my career, I traveled a little bit by myself and kind of got used to it.

Speaker 4: 1:09:12

I do like having people on the road. I think the biggest challenge, um, in addition to all this, has been that oftentimes it's hard to get one person to make like a 30 week commitment, and so then you have to get creative and okay, I can have this person for five weeks. I can have this person for 10 weeks, I can have this person. But that becomes logistically challenging and then a lot of times I'm just like I can't deal with any of this.

Speaker 2: 1:09:42

I can only deal with me, right now, I am dealing with enough, just as myself.

Speaker 4: 1:09:48

So I think I'm just okay. Like they have practice desk, they have string, they have hitting partners All my friends on tour here, physios are here, Like I've got everything I need and if there is like a week that's unique, I can try to find somebody that can come support me. But you know, only if, like you know, I'm not.

Speaker 4: 1:10:07

I'm not just like having a coach for the sake of having a coach or having a physio for the sake of having a physio it all has to serve a purpose and I've been really lucky over the years, like I have had, um, some consistent people that I have worked with, but obviously, like they're not with me 365 days out of the year, um. So, yeah, it's just finding the balance and I think with me I I don't like the feeling of having an entourage around me. I had times where I did have like a whole team with me and there were some great memories and I enjoyed parts of it. It's a lot easier when you just have to worry about yourself.

Speaker 1: 1:10:44

It's a lot easier when you just have to worry about I was talking versus like a whole team, especially when you're like the logistical planner we were, we were talking about it last week, uh, and we, we just thought it was hilarious. It's like you're in madrid, like they flash to you know someone else's box and it's like full of people, and then you don't really have anyone and it's just you out there, solo, fighting with Spanish, and Bouska's dad was there, christy Bouska's dad came to every single match.

Speaker 4: 1:11:17

She's one of my good friends, and her dad knows that I'm solo most of the week, so he comes to a lot of matches when. Christy's not playing.

Speaker 1: 1:11:26

And he was there.

Speaker 4: 1:11:26

apologize, and he was there, even against savalinka, when that match like finished at like one in the morning. So, um, yeah, unbelievable. But yeah, I feel like I always have people there supporting me, um, partly because they see me and they're like hey, like, do you need like?

Speaker 1: 1:11:40

some support, because you're by yourself then, they want to support me anyways, which is really nice.

Speaker 4: 1:11:47

So it's a lot easier. I feel like to be social too when you are alone, because when you're in your team you're kind of focused on the team and just socializing with your team, doing stuff with them, going to dinners. But then when you're by yourself, you I don't know you go to dinner with people more often. You go shopping with a friend like you're starting to convince me.

Speaker 1: 1:12:12

I'm starting to come around. Yeah, I'm starting to get it.

Speaker 4: 1:12:14

Yeah, Like what? What did you do when you were traveling?

Speaker 1: 1:12:16

Well, so I had a coach and a trainer, um, you know. But to to your point, uh, there is, you know, I'd go to the U S open and you know parents and cousins and so basically even, uh, my agent, can I? I? I wouldn't let them stay. I had to stay at a different hotel so I would have my coach, my trainer, so it was just the three of us for for most of my career and it was like we had to kind of be siloed off. Uh, you know.

Speaker 4: 1:12:43

So I traveled with a small team, um, for for most of my I wish earlier in my career I would have done a better job of not staying at the player hotels.

Speaker 1: 1:13:00

Yes, never, I never did it.

Speaker 4: 1:13:01

Because it is just, it's like not a great like work-life balance. When you go to like your space and then like you're in the elevator at like 11.30 pm or 12 pm and you're with so-and-so's mom or dad, that might be a little bonkers also and um, yeah, and so like that's just like. Yeah, I think you need to look forward to like going home at the end of the day, and I think if you're, you spend 24, 7, like with it the work life thing going on like it's too much um.

Speaker 1: 1:13:38

I always, I always said I always said I didn't want to live my career at breakfast, like I didn't want to have to, like, talk to someone who I was going to have to play in two days and try to remember the name of their trainer who I've met. Like, cause you have a million like on tour, you have a million acquaintances, right, but you don't know, you don't know anyone's middle name, like you don't know anyone's middle name, Like you know, like there's a lot of acquaintances, there's a lot of hey, how are you Great, how are you Great?

Speaker 1: 1:14:01

And then it kind of passed two questions. It's like I don't know.

Speaker 4: 1:14:05

We share space. Often I feel like whenever I'm at like the player hotel too, like I, if I go down to breakfast, I'm going to have like 15 different conversations going on at once, and it's like it's all the same conversation in the morning. I, like I need time to wake up and have time, me time I'm with you.

Speaker 1: 1:14:21

I'm with you, uh, so, because obviously this is your last year, um, how much are we going to see you play this year, are you have you? Have you thought about schedule? Is it kind of? Is the schedule the same? Uh, is it a foot, or do you just not know yet?

Speaker 4: 1:14:38

Well in years past, like balancing the work life thing component. I mean the travel schedule that we have is incredibly challenging for me physically, mentally, emotionally. Being someone that's an introvert and loving being at home and being with my dog and not doing a whole lot Like being on the road. Doing this tennis thing is definitely. It definitely pushes me hard, and there's been years where I haven't played more than like eight or nine tournaments I think. This year I've played, I think, more tournaments than I normally would like an entire season.

Speaker 4: 1:15:16

But we have Olympics coming up so I wanted to kind of prioritize playing as many tournaments as I could to see, you know, where I would end up with that. I'm in the race right now and doing well. So, who knows, I might be able to go to Saudi Arabia at the end of the year, which would be so awesome. I've never been to that part of the world. I've been to, of course, like Abu Dhabi, doha, dubai, but haven't made it to Saudi Arabia. I think it would be really cool to get to experience it and see it and to make your end for the first time. So they're big goals and I'll definitely have to keep up this excellent tennis that I've been playing, but I think it's worth. You's worth trying to squeeze out a lot of these tournaments even though it is a lot, but it's nice being like okay, well, next year I'm not going to be traveling, I'm going to be at home. I don't have any tournaments next year, so I can play as many tournaments as I want right now.

Speaker 1: 1:16:13

Yeah, we'll wrap up to this. Give me one thing you think you'll miss about being on tour and one thing that you won't miss at all oh, it's hard to narrow it down to one thing well, don't, don't let me stop you.

Speaker 4: 1:16:29

You set your own parameters for the question um, one thing that I will miss about playing professional tennis, I mean, I have to say I will miss the travel, I think at some point, because the experiences that I've gotten to have through playing professional tennis I've gone to parts of the world I could have never dreamed of going to, and that's because of tennis and it has opened up my eyes to so many things. I didn't have a passport until I was like 22 years old. Never had been out of the country, and to have traveled most of the world and to be introduced to different cultures and experiences, I mean it's been the greatest thing. And I do love traveling, definitely more on leisurely time than work, but yeah, so that'll be in the future. But I will miss the travel, I think. But on leisurely time than work, but yeah, so that'll be in the future.

Speaker 4: 1:17:19

But I will miss the travel, I think. But at the same time I also feel like there's going to be weeks where I'm like, wow, I really don't miss the travel, because it's hard going from continent to continent and like never being on a normal sleep schedule and having a hard time, you know, getting prepared in the best way possible, with getting enough rest when your clock is just so all over the place with all the moving around that we do, yeah. So it's weird, like I feel like there'll be times that I really miss the travel and then there's maybe times where I'm like I think I'm good, just like being at home, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:17:56

Well, good, listen, I will miss most about the continuity of the relationships that I care about, right, so, like, why, my best friends on tour I just don't see as often now, right Like so, we have kids and I have my home life and I don't see Marty Fish as much as I'd want to. I don't see my trainer, who I was with forever, as often as I'd want to, um, I don't see, uh, my trainer, who I was with forever, uh, as often as I'd want to. And you see, kind of, as time passes and you'll see, as you get to the next steps of life, kind of that becomes like your orbit and your gravitational pull, and so I think I miss the people. I don't miss traveling. I don't miss, uh, I don't miss, uh, the anxiety of having to play a match at all.

Speaker 1: 1:18:38

Uh, I said I don't know if I retired from tennis or I retired from waiting around. Um, you know when you're fifth on and you have to. That, that part I don't miss at all. Um, I've started hitting tennis balls again, so I still kind of I think I have the innocent part of tennis back, which is nice, because you know every ball you hit for so long is, is has an element of pressure to it, um, and so I like that being gone and I just like playing the game now. Um, but I miss.

Speaker 4: 1:19:04

one other thing I won't miss I definitely won't miss the people that have stopped me throughout my career.

Speaker 1: 1:19:08

Oh, you don't miss. Oh, so you're difficult for me at times.

Speaker 4: 1:19:11

Oh, that's weird, you're anti-stalker dark turn, but that's something I definitely won't miss from a safety standpoint. I feel like maybe being at home. Hopefully those people don't show up as often.

Speaker 1: 1:19:23

Well, just make sure that your home address is hidden, I guess. But yeah, I could see where I could see where, like, I feel like anti-stalking is a pretty pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty pretty.

Speaker 2: 1:19:36

It's a pretty understandable stance, it's a universal one. Yeah, I think it's pretty universal, except for, I guess, the stalker.

Speaker 1: 1:19:41

but yeah, yeah. Well, you know what I say. I say fuck those stalkers, get away um it. Anyways. Uh, daniel, you've, you've, uh, I think you've been one of the biggest stories in tennis. Uh, this year. It has been uh so much fun to watch. You have uh checked a box and box in producer Mike's bucket list. Yeah, okay, wait.

Speaker 4: 1:20:03

I've got one last question, Andy. Do you got any tips for me on court?

Speaker 1: 1:20:07

For on court? Not right now. I wouldn't tell you a damn thing right now with the way that you've been playing.

Speaker 1: 1:20:12

No, right now, no chance. No, set yourself up in the middle of the court and just distribute. The way you've been doing it I said we were talking about after Charleston. I said the way you're playing reminds me a little bit of my idol, andre Agassi, where he would set himself up right in the middle, can go line, can go cross, but it was always on you in a hurry. You always felt like you were rushed and it never stopped. It was like suffocating. So there is not a chance with the way that you've been playing that I would give you one piece of advice Keep doing it, keep enjoying it.

Speaker 1: 1:20:47

Uh, enjoy the rest of the year. Um, we, we've enjoyed watching you. Uh, this year it has been, uh, just phenomenal to see. Um, it has been just phenomenal to see I'm glad that people are kind of seeing, you know the post-match interviews in Miami and Charleston. I think you're really flashing the personality, maybe more than we've been able to see before, and it's just been great to watch. Nothing but success. And then, if you're bored in retirement, come and join us and we'll have longer conversations.

Speaker 4: 1:21:17

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for Do something with Tennis. Channel after I'm done. Well, awesome, yeah, maybe I'll see you on air.

Speaker 1: 1:21:25

We'll see you there. Thank you for making the time. I know you're busy playing in Rome right now, so good luck there. Good luck at Roland Garros, and for the rest of this year we'll be watching.

Speaker 4: 1:21:37

Yeah, thank you guys. It was nice to meet you too.

Speaker 1: 1:21:39

Mike.

Speaker 4: 1:21:41

So, nice when I hear that I'm someone's favorite player.

Speaker 1: 1:21:47

All right. Well, thank you to Danielle Collins for calling in from Rome, our first interview with an active player. It might as well be a person who's uh been putting up the best results on earth for the last uh couple of months. And, selfishly, now I don't have to get producer mike a birthday present for his upcoming birthday. I, we are settled. You had the danimal on uh, what were your takeaways, producer mike?

Speaker 2: 1:22:15

uh, I, I really like she seems just so like at peace with where she is in her career and the fact that you know some people would be like, wow, I'm playing my best tennis and I feel the most you know complete as a tennis player and I understand tennis the most. Maybe I won't hang it up and she's like, no, that's it. I feel great about it and I'm proud of the end of my career and it's the end of my career.

Speaker 1: 1:22:34

It's pretty awesome. I kind of was waiting for like an opening to say, well, you know, she's like, well, if I keep playing, well, and then I, you know it's like, but it was like, no, that's just the way it is, and I'm going to kind of run out the clock and I'm going to do as much as I can with this little, with the little time that's left. It's pretty cool. It's hard to look at her in the way she presents and think that there was ever a doubt had by her about her ability to play tennis at the highest level. Always surprising. I learn something every time with these interviews. A lot of fun for me and now I'm actually excited about this.

Speaker 1: 1:23:14

It's time to announce a fun new segment, interactive for all of you, and an opportunity to get featured on the show. A couple of weeks we're going to do a new segment called Get Served. Over the next couple of weeks we're going to take submissions from Swing Vision users via social media posts and we will pick four videos to feature on the show. Those we pick will get some swag and, most importantly, some on-air pointers from me. Here's how you do it Record your best serve or rally using the SwingVision app, If you don't already have it, right now would be the time to go download it.

Speaker 1: 1:23:46

Scan the QR code on screen if you're watching, or go to swingvision slash served Link also in the description of the show. Bonus you sign up for the Swing Vision Pro and get a free swing stick using our served link. Okay, then record your next session, earmark your best rally or serve right in the app and then post it to X or Instagram using hashtag GetServedByRoddick and tag at Swing Vision app while you're at it Vision app while you were at it. Then I'll be picking videos to show here in the show and give my constructive thoughts, or I might just rip on you for the enjoyment of others, I don't know. Again, go to swingvision slash serve, sign up for Swing Vision and get me your best of Remember to post with hashtag Get Served by Roddick and tag SwingVision app. We'll see you next time.