Served with Andy Roddick
Novak, Murray, Nadal Updates & What makes Wimbledon special? Plus Federer: Twelve Final Days review
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Hey everybody, welcome to another week of served grass court edition. After having watched the tournaments this week in Halle in Queens, the women in Berlin, birmingham and elsewhere, I'm going to say something really controversial. Guys, straight off the top, we are so stupid for not having a longer grass court season. We are absolute morons in our sport for not having a lead in a service that lends itself to playing different styles, not the same monotony, where we just run side to side for hours upon hours, upon hours. Um, there's nuance to it. There is, uh, many. So we the fact that we don't have a masters 1000 in the lead in to Wimbledon and we have three leading into Roland Garros and we have an eight week clay court season. You could literally play seven events on clay before you get to Roland Garros. Um, and it's just not the case, and it puts a huge premium on um having to play well and get matches right. Like, like, let's use, and we're going to get into the racket rundown brought to you by Wilson. Um, right now. Obviously, center looked fantastic, uh in Holly, but let's, let's put this scenario here. Right now we're going to get to the part where we all agree with each other and not around, uh, in a circle to the room of sinner. Best preparation he could possibly have in wimbledon and now is probably co-favorite uh, depending on what news we get from novak jokovic, uh, this week, right, but sinner also lost the first set of the tournament seven, six. That could go sideways and then we would be like, oh, the hip, I don't know. So there's just such a premium on grass court tennis and we'll take a deeper dive.
Speaker 1:But first I mentioned Novak. I want to get into two icons of our sport, and time is seemingly coming for both. For both of them, uh, novak and Andy Murray. Um, I was very concerned, uh about Novak's knee a couple of weeks ago when you heard that he had surgery post uh Roland Garros after his round of 16 match, which was a long five setter, uh, any operation at that age. I was super concerned about. Uh, I was, uh, I didn't think Wimbledon was was a possibility based on history of earth and the operations two weeks before Wimbledon.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, and and and and obviously those reports kind of got taken sideways and I'm just getting smoked by by Novak fans everywhere and just I'm just going to say this very here and then I won't give it any more attention. You can say anything you want about me and my opinions and whatever. I've ignored it for a long time online from this certain sect of Novak fans. So I understand there are many great, great, great Novak fans. Unfortunately, they don't dominate Twitter the way that the shitheads do. When you say things personally about my children, about me, about anything else, I just decided to fucking end this person online and if you're a clown who doesn't know anything about tennis but yet you act as if you have the tennis IQ of Andy Murray, I'm going to basically point out that you don't know shit and that your place comes from an extreme bias. I won't get personal. I hadn't been personal this week. I basically just said you don't know what you're talking about and there's just no reason for you to be angry about me basically saying I'm concerned about Novak and if he'll be ready for Wimbledon. I think that's a very rational thing to say for a 37 year old who had surgery two weeks before a major event I hope he plays.
Speaker 1:I was the first media personality that felt comfortable saying out loud that Novak is the greatest of all time. I was early, early adopter. People are still mad at me for some history I have with Novak. Novak and I were fine that night a long time ago. We left fine that night a long time ago. Every interaction we've had since has been more than cordial, friendly. Even we don't have contact I have contact with some other former players, but that's great.
Speaker 1:I will always deal from a place of respect with Novak because he has more than earned it. He is the greatest that our game has seen. He is phenomenal. I want him to play Wimbledon. I hope he plays Wimbledon. The fact that he is there now is fantastic. I think he's maybe I think he's probably second best grass quarter of all time. Maybe he definitely top three in the conversation for two and he wins one more. He's right there at number one. So that's how highly I think of him and I think, if he's healthy, he's the favorite at Wimbledon, even with what happened with Alcaraz last year.
Speaker 1:I don't know that he has the fitness. I don't know how you build up fitness. The fact that he can do movements is not the same as as moving and doing movements for five sets, and I'm sure that's going to piss everyone off, the fact that I said something so irrational. Uh, like you have to be able to train to have fitness in tennis. I'm sure that's offensive to all you. Little minion fucks. Um, so that's that. Uh, I hope Nova. I'm. I'm stunned by JW. Have you seen any of the the the videos that he's been putting out as far asa recovery? I'm stunned. It's just like it's the most Novak thing I've ever seen. Where we're doubting him? It's him against the world and all of a sudden he's doing one legged hops on a knee that he just had surgery on. I mean, I am, I am, I, I'm, I'm like crazy impressed. Is that, is that normal to you after having been around him forever or for a bunch of stories?
Speaker 2:You, uh, underestimate this guy at your peril. No, I got a step, I got a text Sunday saying Novak's going to use Monday as his day to see if he's fit for Wimbledon, and I didn't put it out there. I didn't retweet, you know I didn't. It seems so preposterous, given what at least our dinosaur brains know about what knee injuries tended to be like. And then all of a sudden, you see him Monday and he's on the grass. And if you did not know that this person had surgery within the last three weeks, you never would have known it from this video. I do wonder if social Sophie can just show you how to use the block button, which would prevent you from a lot of agitation. But your point is valid and I mean, I don't know, it sounds crazy.
Speaker 2:We sort of laid this out and gave it out. You say 37 years old. At his last event he literally got surgery in the middle of the tournament on a knee. We're talking about him at Wimbledon. Are you crazy? And I don't know. I mean, I think as we record this, he probably plays, and as long as he plays he's a contender. So we've gone from. We've gone from surgery in Paris, you know, the first week of June to July 1st, this guy will be a contender at the next major. You know, you know, just sidebar. This is why it's also silly to compare eras. I mean this, this would be a ridiculous conversation, and I mean we talk about strings, we talk about rackets and technology. You know what Medical science has also made it pretty silly to compare Andre and Pete to Rod and Novak. But anyway, I'm agree with you. If he's in the draw, he's a contender and if he wins this event, I think you could very well make a credible case. This is the greatest male grass court player of all time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's spot on. The point about surgery and comparing generations is not something I have thought of. And you're absolutely right. You know, when you used to have a knee operation, you had a six inch scar running down the front of your body and you might be cooked forever. And you're definitely cooked for six to nine months, um, and you're losing range of motion, everything else. So, uh, this is, this is fantastic. And also, showing up on Monday at I'm going to say another crazy thing you ready, you ready for this? This is just gonna, this is just gonna make my life living hell. Just going to make my life living hell.
Speaker 1:Showing up on a Monday and hopping around and maybe on Tuesday goes and hit some balls and maybe on Wednesday, come Thursday, the reality of five sets and sprinting, hopping is different than sprinting side to side and having a 22 ball rally on a slippery surface. So hopping and showing up is not the same as playing the highest level tennis, you know, in the hardest sport in the world and its biggest venue. Crazy, right? Isn't that nuts? Isn't that nuts? Isn't that just wow, crazy, I'm really. I'm really. I'm firing on all cylinders today. I hope Novak plays.
Speaker 1:I am amazed that we're seeing what he, what we're seeing and I also got in trouble for saying, basically saying it's his choice to put out videos, which obviously brings attention, brings speculation. We talk about it more based on the information we have. He is providing a lot of information right now. Is that crazy? There is a world where he would have wanted to be secretive about it. He's showing us, he's wanting to present an image of strength and health going into this off week. That is a choice. If there are no videos and no commentary, we don't know anything and maybe our conversations are the same as they were two weeks ago. He is inviting us in for a look into his recovery through putting out content. Isn't that crazy for me to say?
Speaker 2:One minor pushback. Okay, great, he's practicing at Wimbledon. So in theory, anyone with a media credential, anyone could in theory, sure, still photos video.
Speaker 1:The videos were coming out five days before he arrived at Wimbledon.
Speaker 2:Right, no, I mean. One thing that's weird about this whole story is that I was I mean, he said this to my face. I mean this is, this is not just gossip. The Olympics were the priority this year. He hasn't won that gold medal that he wanted to. This was to be.
Speaker 2:I don't think it was at all a given that he was going to play Wimbledon, even at peak health. Oh, I disagree, play Roland Garros. I, you know he's, he's going. I mean, I know there are there are financial reasons or legacy reasons, but if you are hell bent on winning an Olympic gold and it's a clay tournament Anyway, I think it's extraordinary that he's back. I think you, you raise a good point too, though. I mean best of five tennis going backwards and forwards. We saw all week players slipping around on the grass, as one tends to do. Those videos were a great source of encouragement and I think not that anyone doubted Novak and his resilience. You know, five years ago, much less two weeks ago, I mean it's not surprising at all, but I do think that you know when he takes that first slip going side to side on wet grass, it makes you a little.
Speaker 1:It's a cringe moment 100%. There's not even like. All I want is to be wrong with my concern about his knee. I would love that. I would honestly love that, because the tournament is better when our greatest champion is participating in it in any tournament. I want to see his brilliance on grass. I think he is so, uh, so much further along IQ wise on grass than all but three people in the entire tournament and he has the skillset to turn that IQ into results, right, I want to see that 1000%. I cheer for health with every single player on tour, especially people that move the needle and make the interest in tennis greater. People that move the needle and make the interest in tennis greater. End of story.
Speaker 1:A weird story around one of my favorite players to watch. My respect for this player is endless. Andy Murray played a great first round match and then he came out against Jordan Thompson and Queens and it just didn't look right. Like his body looked like it looked like he had just discovered feet, like it just didn't. It didn't look normal. Um, he came off and said like I just didn't really have control to me as I was digesting what he was saying, the symptoms, where I'm going oh, that's a, it's probably a nerve issue, right, shooting pains, numbness like, but that can be worked out, um, in a pretty short amount of time adjustments, treatment, everything else.
Speaker 1:Uh, he ended up having a surgical procedure to remove a cyst from his back. Um, so tread cautiously here. Uh, after the last week of my life and um, but I just that's concerning, and all I wanted was all I want continue to want, is for Murray to have the send-off at Wimbledon, because I don't think people understand even casual tennis fans how monumental him winning Wimbledon in that country was at the time that he won it. And all I want is for this extended, uh, extended respect to have that moment to say goodbye on his terms, and as of now, it doesn't look like it's going to happen based on this procedure on his back that he had this week. The timeline, I'll say this the timeline seems very short for him to be able to participate in.
Speaker 1:Wimbledon and I know he'll do everything he possibly can. Unlike Novak, I don't think he needs to be perfect to have a send-off. I don't think it's like I need to feel like I can win the tournament or I'm not participating. I don't think that would be his mindset. It's purely projection. I don't know. He's earned the goodbye. He's earned every possible advantage. Scheduling anything that they can do to accommodate him, I think should happen.
Speaker 1:Judy Murray sent out an interesting tweet and I won't read it verbatim, but the gist of it was um, they didn't want the news of Murray's injury getting out. That was not by design. Um, apparently the way she said it was. It sucks when someone's private medical information gets leaked by someone that we trusted. I don't know who that is, I don't know what that is. Uh, I do know that you have to be pretty pissed off too, and rightfully so, by the way. If that's, if that's information that is in house on your team and all of a sudden it's for consumption for any and also people listening, you don't understand the microscope he is under at that tournament.
Speaker 1:As a brit, I remember I played him in the semis in 09. Um, the first six pages of the sports section were all about murray what he ate. He had a banana 37 minutes into his practice. Uh, his miss lippy's car is green. He likes to drink milk at any anyways, there's like four people out there that love billy madison that are laughing their asses off at that reference um yeah, uh, anyways.
Speaker 1:So that's that sucks, and I hope whoever leaked that information gets called out in a very, very public manner, because that's just frankly, kind of fucked up. My, am I missing anything with on that JW? Did you hear anything differently?
Speaker 2:No, I couldn't tell if she was upset with the journalist or somebody within the camp for betraying a confidence. Judy Murray, we should also point out, is this force of good in tennis. This is not some hothead tennis parent. This is someone who's very informed, very well regarded. She clearly was upset to have written that.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think you really have to be careful with injuries. A it's personal, it's personal autonomy. We have laws in this country about revealing information about medical health. The flip side is, if you're the journalist and Andy Murray's body is preventing him from playing Wimbledon, that's newsworthy. So I'm not sure where the sort of breach of confidence came.
Speaker 2:The whole thing is just really unfortunate. I mean, if anyone deserves to go out, and go out on his terms and it you know. I think this is one. I think this is sort of one consequence of players playing older right that Roger beats Pete Sampras at Wimbledon and it's a passing of the torch moment moment and Andy Roddick wins the US Open the same year that Pete Sampras doesn't play and sort of. We have these natural sort of lineages and I think that when you play to your late 30s you don't have these torch passing moments so much as you have players saying my body's preventing me from defending my title, my body's preventing me from entering the draw, which is unfortunate. I you know, if Andy Murray deserves anything, it's a grand ceremony. I think we're all sort of working under the assumption this is his last Wimbledon, so if in fact he's not able to play, it's quadruply unfortunate.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I just think we all need sometimes to be a little more graceful A with retirements, which you and I have spoken about a lot, and B be with health and physical injuries. It's, it's deeply personal. A lot of times the athlete themselves doesn't know I'm not sure why a member of his team would have sort of leaked something of this nature. But you know, again, like like you said about Novak, I mean, you can have your favorite player, you can root for player X and against player Y, but I think we all ought to be in agreement that we should all root for optimal health. And in this case, um, you, you hope. I mean it does seem like she left the door open that andy might in fact play and that the the information wasn't accurate. So maybe that's what we should, uh, hang on to. This seems like there is still a chance he'll be out there yeah, she said.
Speaker 4:She said, fyi, not ruled out yet at the end of the tweet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they came out after this news broke and the way I read it was that it wasn't going to happen, and they came out and released from her side, his side, basically saying he has not pulled out of the event yet, so he is not officially out, but it seems as if it's a toss-up seemingly at. It's a toss up, it's seemingly at best. Uh, right now. For that I hope Murray gets his moment. Um, you know, if you have any, if we have some American sports fans and we're talking about, like the Red Sox finally winning, the Cubs finally winning, this is that times 20, as far as the way that the, this country digested his win when he finally broke through for the first time since the 20s and won that tournament. We're talking about Trafalgar Square full of people, public viewing areas, hyde Park, screens up, hundreds of thousands or millions of fans showing up to watch huge screens around the country, and this guy delivers against Novak Djokovic and delivers the Wimbledon title that they haven't had. On the men's side, obviously, virginia Wade has won and is a great champion, but the seismic moment when he won cannot be understated. He deserves the farewell, the thank you, the respect, and another thing that's worth noting. Right is.
Speaker 1:We think we always make up our minds very early about people based on their encore.
Speaker 1:Personas Early on in Andy Murray's career curmudgeon, argue with the umpire, yell at the box, break stuff, he would win and he was British and he would lose and he's Scottish, depending on the tone.
Speaker 1:And now I think we forget that there was like this polarizing five years for Andy Murray before he became the statesman of sanity in our sport, whether it's a social justice issue or he's not scared to give his opinion and whether or not you agree with it, it's an informed opinion and it's based on some collection of facts and it's not just emotion and you know, bullshit. So the fact that he has changed into this person who's universally respected and we've gotten to know him past his petulance on court I want that moment for him too, right, because maybe we didn't like him when we had to celebrate his winning Wimbledon, you know, especially in his own country, and now he's adored and rightfully so, knighted. Sir Andy Murray, we hope that you have health and that you get your moment. I'm sure you're very, very appreciative because you're 100% not listening to this right now, but we respect you and anything else there, John.
Speaker 2:That's very well said. Sometimes the media and public perception get it right, and sometimes they whiff. And the Andy Murray we all knew from the start was nothing like the perception. Do you want to do? You want to make it a trifecta If? If Murray and Djokovic do not post and of course we hope they do it will mean there will be one one former Wimbledon men's champion in the draw, and it's the guy who won it last year and is still quite young champion in the draw, and it's the guy who won it last year and uh is still quite young. Um, but we haven't talked about rafa, who announced his uh. He probably wasn't playing wimbledon. That means he probably will never play again, and yet he is playing a clay event in sweden in a lead up to the olympics. Um, are you? Uh? What? What do we make of his absence, especially if he now knows he wouldn't have to go through Novak if he were going to win a third title?
Speaker 1:I do want to tell you, john, to just you're insane for even for even bringing up the hypothetical that two players, 37 years old, who have had surgery within the last two weeks, might not play a three out of five set two week tennis tournament. That's in. That's insane and disrespectful for you to even mention that.
Speaker 2:Okay, just so you know social sophie is going to help me with the black button yeah, just just just know that that's, that's absolutely insane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and and, as far as. As far as Rafa goes, I mean, I didn't have Bo Stott on my bingo card, you know, you rewind to where we're talking about him three months ago and I'm like, okay, he's probably going to wrap it up at Roland Garros, the Olympics. I get Bo Stott because he needs some match play between first round at Roland Garros and the Olympics and the Olympics. So in a micro decision it makes a lot of sense. Where I can't say I'm frustrated, but where I'm like, oh man, like opportunity missed for us, like I'm super selfish as a fan right here, because this is going to get clicks and it's going to. And this, his fluency and his IQ on grass.
Speaker 1:We quickly forget that two years ago a lot of people had him penciled in the final. He was supposed to play a semifinal against Nick Kyrgios. He tore an ab muscle against Taylor Fritz, still gutted through two sets to grind out that match against Taylor Fritz. Kyrgios gets the walkover and plays that final that we remember him playing against Novak. What's often forgot is that he didn't win a match in the semis and Rafa was rolling people that tournament. He had won the first two slams of the year was in the semis of the third one, going for like the calendar year slam.
Speaker 1:There was conversations of that, of that Wimbledon with the way that he knows how to play on it and with the lack of expertise because it is such a short timeline for surface and nobody grows up on it, right, no one has been playing on grass since they were five. You don't learn on grass because the ball doesn't bounce. So, like I think Rafa's like possibly his best shot to get to a semi or final or have a day could be Wimbledon. His backhand, he can just rip. He doesn't play those extended points on grass. He can control the middle of the court more. He forces himself to step in on returns. All of the things that he has to do by virtue of, by virtue of his body not working as much anymore, shortening points, points and all that those are all the adjustments he already made on grass. So I hate it that it looks like he's not going to be a part of it. He hasn't officially pulled out. He will um, go ahead, mike.
Speaker 4:Well, I was just going to say after Roland Garros, after his loss from Roland Garros, he had talked about how it'd be hard, given what's been going on with his body, to transition from clay to grass but then to make the transition back. Can you kind of give some insight into that, especially going through what he's going through physically?
Speaker 1:So here's the thing With him his hip, everything else, confidence and movement. People are like clay is softer on your body, you know you're going to get less injured. For all of us chuckers, right. For me that's not the case, because I don't slide well, I'm not a natural mover on clay. Maybe it's softer, but like I can predict what's going to happen when I move on a hard court or a grass court, I just it makes sense to me, my body works, the instincts are there. So I don't know if it's just a matter of Rafa feeling completely confident with movement on a surface versus obviously the most unsure surface is grass. So maybe it's just I'm not going to give up a look to play on my beloved surface, which is totally understandable.
Speaker 1:None of my opinions about Rafa still being great on grass mean that I disagree with his decision. I can't speak to his body, right, I can't do that. I'm just saying I think he could win matches and make a run at Wimbledon if he chose to play. But I get it Like switching surfaces sucks in the body, right. All of a sudden you go from building up, uh, reserves on on clay, uh, grinding out matches, your body work, and then all of a sudden you're dealing with like lower back issues on grass Cause you're bending and it's twisting and that's not native to him. So, listen, he made the right decision. But in my mind I'm going.
Speaker 1:I have had the thought I don't know if I fully believe it, but like that might be his best bet to like win a slam or get to like a last four right now, even including clay, you know. So it's based on what his body's capable of doing in the movement. Speed gets a little help on a serve. All the adjustments that he has to make for his body now are kind of adjustments he has to make on grass anyway. So we'll see him in Bostroth. I'm just happy we're going to get to see him again. I'm going to enjoy that. That'll be great. I hope we see Novak at Wimbledon. I hope we see Murray. I hope he gets to say goodbye. At this point nobody's worried about saying goodbye to Novak. We're going to see him play more and it looks like he's on his way to health quicker than I could have ever anticipated and that is just. That's great. Um, any more parting thoughts as far as those three JW.
Speaker 2:Uh, no, that was great.
Speaker 1:It's getting around racket rundown racket rundown brought to you by Wilson, our friends uh at Wilson. Um, listen, it was. It was an exciting week. I love the grass court season. Um, I request Tennis Channel to cover Queens just because I love talking about grass court tennis. I love the changes, I love the adjustments you have to make. It's fun watching people learn in real time, which is what you feel like.
Speaker 1:You watched Yannick Sinner do this week in Halle in in holly uh, three setters first, three matches, then uh rolled the last two bejang in the in the semis and then a very, very capable probably like. I don't think it's hyperbolic to say hercotch is top five or six grass quarters in the world. Um beats him in the final and straight sets uh as well. How he is moving aggressively. And holly is the slipperiest grass court there is because it's half indoors, it's it's like a, it's like a domed roof where they, you, you have to have direct sunlight for a grass court to be perfect. Holly doesn't have that benefit. Right, it rains. They have to protect, they have to put an event on. So the back of holly is is is a slip and slide. And how hard center was moving in the corners, sliding into shots and then turning on a dime. Like we all know, he was a former skier when he was young and I was actually uh playing golf with Kevin Anderson this morning and he goes. That ski thing has to matter on grass when you're kind of getting in and out of cuts, he goes. That's just like a natural thing for him.
Speaker 1:Um, he looked great. He's holding at an insane clip to serve wide, like even if you know he's serving wide on the deuce side. What do you do? You cover it. You firm it up. If you're not going line, which is like a low percentage shot, he's in the middle and he's taking you the other way and he can square it up. Couldn't have been more impressed with, uh, the run that center put together in holly. Uh, tommy paul was fantastic in queens. Well deserved uh, us number one now. Um, winning that final against lorenzo musetti, who everyone predicted was going to be in that final. Am I right, john?
Speaker 2:uh, because of that italian tennis run we're on, um, interesting, I mean, you know, and tommy paul really earned that. There was some interesting results. He lost a quarter last week. Then he comes back and beat quarter. That's, that's a nice title for tommy paul, I think musetti's, I don't think that's a crazy. Uh, I don't think that's a crazy finalist. But, um, no, I think you know just one other, you know, do you think so?
Speaker 2:On grass, sort of a slick, not the worst, over one-handed backhand, no, you know what else. There's some years where the number of tiebreak sets played on grass is 30% higher than other surfaces either win tiebreak sets or to lose a tiebreak set and then reset, which is what uh center especially, did really well. I, I think some of these are about, you know, tommy paul, great athlete, not, not, not a big surprise that tommy paul's performed well in grass, um, but I also think, uh, I think there's more, mentally, that goes into winning grass court match. I mean, you know this yourself. I mean you, you stand up there and it's, it's six games all, and the next four minutes is going to determine whether what we did for the previous 70 minutes was a positive or a negative. Tommy Paul, some nice tennis. I saw some nice. You know I watched the. You know I saw Draper. But what I also saw was a lot of some nice mental toughness which we haven't always seen from him at majors especially.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and tommy paul deserves so much credit okay, the book on tommy five years ago.
Speaker 2:Frankly, I'll say it yeah was.
Speaker 1:He was full of talent and didn't treat this like a job. You know was was was tommy good time, right like that, that and then brad stein I mean knucklehead is the way they called him yeah so but like, let's give credit.
Speaker 1:And that's not the. The only reason I would mention the negative is to point out the progress. Right, he is such a pro now you never worry about him being tired in matches. His body holds that. Your body doesn't hold up. When all of a sudden, you're winning more matches than you ever have because it's unprepared, your body holds up switching surfaces semi in Indian Wells, semi in Rome, winning Queens.
Speaker 1:This is a well-rounded player. This is someone who can play defense. This is someone who can transition forward. This is someone who doesn't. He's not Tyson from the late 80s. He doesn't just walk up and start throwing haymakers. He has learned this nuance, how to deal with his own game, how to be the most effective version of himself, and he is an absolute professional.
Speaker 1:Now, not a lot of guys figure that out midstream. A lot of guys have regrets when they start out the way that Tommy Paul did. A lot of guys look back and say, gosh, you know what I should have done. X, y and Z Credit to him. Huge props to Brad Stein for not even just like saying it's easy to tell someone work hard. It's harder to do it in a way that is communicative and to get buy-in and to get buy-in over an extended period of time. Right, this wasn't like they started. Tommy was, you know. I don't know, he's around 180. I don't know what it was, but certainly not someone you looked at and go. Yeah, he has the discipline to be top 10. And now it looks like he is going to be top 10 because of that discipline.
Speaker 2:Jw yeah, brad, brad stein's track record speaks for itself. Uh, you do the the correlation causation. But I think that's a really good point you raised, which is credit to the player too. Um, part of part of it, the player is the one who's got to execute. But also credit tommy paul. I'm sure there were a lot of mornings with brad stein that weren't nearly as much fun as he had had six months, 18 months prior. I'm sure there were a lot of things Brad Stein said that weren't as nice to hear as other people you could surround yourself with. When there is a coaching relationship like that, you credit the coach there was. You know Darren, you sort of do the math graph it out on you know Darren Cahill's center, you can sort of just look at the results. But I also think the players ought to get a lot of credit, especially young ones, for sticking with coaches that are hard asses and don't always tell them what they want to hear.
Speaker 2:And this is yeah, it's really. This is really sort of an unsung run for Tommy Paul. You know, made the semis in Australia a year and a half ago, but he hasn't had that one crazy result, hasn't won Indian Wells the way Taylor Fritz has hasn't had the Francis run at the open where he sort of hijacks the place for a few days. He's done this steadily. He's done this with really sort of versatile tennis on a variety of surfaces. He's done this sometimes after really bad losses. This is really an underrated American tennis story.
Speaker 1:And not to mention he busted his ankle in Miami. He had a speed bump in the middle of his year. So to come back and it just I'm going to be effusive with praise for Tommy Paul right now because there was definitely a time in his career where I would have gone. This guy is just never going to get it. Hashtag invoke Mike you're the only one that got it. But there was a time where definitely I was like this is going to be a fun time guy.
Speaker 1:I've always liked Tommy. I've known him since he was a kid Great guy, even when I was disagreeing with his decision-making for being the best tennis player he could possibly be. I've always liked Tommy. He's the nice one, of the nicest guys, easiest guys. You won't hear anyone say like he, oh he, well, he's like kind of an you know an ass in the locker room. He's just a great guy. He's just a nice laid back guy, good sense of humor, um. But now he's put the pieces together and I'm really happy for him. I really am. I'm really really happy for Tommy Paul. I'm glad he got that American number one. I hope he gets to the top 10. I hope that the next step is developing into someone where it's not even a pleasant surprise when he's in the semis of a major event, and I think that's a reality. I love what they've done. Props to uh. Props to brad stein. Uh, you mentioned jack draper. He was a huge story, obviously in london. Um, before I mention him because I also want to get to alcaraz and how I don't care that he lost in queens, that affects my, my, uh, wimbledon, I guess. Predictive thing for him zero. Um.
Speaker 1:So you mentioned like there are going to be some listeners. You're like, wait, players don't like it when their coaches are hard ass. No one's like that. I literally had. So my old coach was, uh, my last coach was Larry Stefanky. I had, uh, a woman player who was at the time maybe had had like a run where there was a lot of successful majors, and then I want to say she was still top 10 or thereabouts, but like a big star, and called and was like I texted and said, hey, I'd like to talk to you about about Larry, and Larry ended up going for a day. But I want to talk to you about Larry and the question was I was like, oh yeah, larry's great and she got. And the question was yeah, but is he like, is he like super hard Cause I don't know that? Like, that's not really what I like and I'm going well, what are your goals Like? What do you, what do you want? And they're like oh no, some of the like bad, I don't want to like. If I, if I don't really want to practice for a couple of days, I don't want someone who's being a hard ass about it, I'm like okay, well, I think differently. After this conversation I said I don't know, you give him a try, but he might not be the guy for you because, yeah, he's coached for former number one, so he's going to expect a certain level of give a shittedness there's a T-shirt for you, mike certain level of give a shittedness. There's a t-shirt for you, mike. Um, so, moving off the guys and we'll get to the.
Speaker 1:Uh, the women's draw. Um, berlin was was strange. Um, a lot of stops and starts in the matches. Um, you know I? Uh, sabalenka played one match against kazakina, looked great and then was in the middle of a match, said nope, I'm done. Rabakina um, I don't know if it was. She said abdominal pain, I don't know if it was stomach issue. Uh, three, one ripcord. Uh, jabour lose the first set to coco says nope, um, so all of a sudden, the final we have uh, jessula beats Coco.
Speaker 1:Pagula obviously has had a rough start to the year. She told me when we were chatting earlier in the year when she had a lot of things going on as far as switching coaches, everything else. She was asking my opinion on things and basically, what mistakes have you made, which I thought was a really great question and I was happy to share, but kind of has had a bunch of stops and starts, found some momentum and Charleston played pretty well, uh, but it was still searching, I think. Just Pagula, the fit for her game on grass is phenomenal and I said it five days ago on on tennis channel before she won Berlin. I'm like she is going to be tough to deal with. She can control the middle of the court, ball flight can distribute both ways. Props to her for getting back winning. This is a big title Beating Coco, beating Kalinskaya, who was frankly on one this week, like just crushing the ball, saving four match points in that final.
Speaker 1:This was the exact type of week that Jess Pagula needed to get through to feel like she was a part of the tour again. Right, like I am in it, there are rain delays. I have to come out, sleep on a three, one lead in a breaker, or four, one lead in a breaker against Coco. Come back, finish that off. Start the final 25 minutes later. Like it was random, lots of questions asked.
Speaker 1:I thought I thought Jess was great. I love the way that her game fits on grass. Uh, we conveniently forget that she was up for one in the third set last year in the quarters against the person who ended up winning the tournament. Um, I love, I love Jess. I hope that you know she feels great going into Wimbledon. I think she could be a real threat uh on the surface and uh on another.
Speaker 1:Another cool story Isla Tomjanovich has also been hurt a bunch. Um played a challenger uh last week. Um, something that Sophie knows something about cause she's watched the movie challengers so she's uh an expert um in it. But it but comes back uh makes final after a bunch of stops and starts. Uh, she has battled injuries uh through her career, but especially the last year. Great story makes the final can't quite get over the hump was oh and five and finals. Going in is probably the best player that hasn't won a title on either tour. Um, hopefully she gets it. But props to putin seva who, uh said before this week she didn't really like grass. I think she likes it a little bit more now with that title in hand.
Speaker 2:Uh, in birmingham, uh jw it's interesting to me what sort of has predictive value and what doesn't, right? So I'm with you. Like carlos alcaraz loses to draper talented lefty, I don't care, don't care, right? No, but there are other grass events where you look at context and you look at where a player's been or what this has done or what they've shown you in a match. Uh, you know jesse pagula beating. Actually she beat the both the doubles team right, did she beat? Uh?
Speaker 2:she beat sinia kava too yeah, and then she beats coco. Um, that has more predictive value. I think it's interesting there that some of these results in tune-ups and also, I mean I think, as these majors get more and more important it means that the tune-ups have much. You know, there's a variety of meetings for different players. Some players just want matches, some players don't want to get dinged up before the big show. But it's interesting to me what you just said, because what you're saying and I think it's really valued but it's really nuanced is that different results have different significance for different players. So, carlos Alcaraz, you're not going to rip up your draw because he lost to Jack Draper. But Jesse Pagula, all of a sudden someone in need of wins and got a bunch of good ones. Hey, maybe we should look at her as the top 10 seed. She's going to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally Alcaraz. He needed Queens. Last year I watched his first round and then I watched his third round at Queens a year ago when I watched his first round, I'm going this guy doesn't. He doesn't know how to play on grass yet, and this phenom, by third round, I'm going.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, well, that was easy for him to figure out, right, he needed that last year going into Wimbledon. Because there is this aha moment Pete Sampras talks about it. He's like I thought I hated grass and then it clicked and I got it. I understood it. I wasn't frustrated by it Bad bounces, I knew how to play, I knew what to do, I knew how to move, I knew when to press, I knew when to not, and it all clicked very quickly. Sinner made the semis last year, so it's not as act as if he didn't know how to do it. But this week was different. Like I, you saw him problem solving for grass uh, in real time. Carlos Alcaraz played a great first round against Sarandolo. Looked amazing, floating around the court doing all of the Alcaraz things goes up against Draper, who had won the week before. Draper served him off the court, right, carlos, still finding his footing Like he should have. He went to Ibiza after Roland Garros and hopefully partied his ass off.
Speaker 1:Don't worry about that Good, because he deserved it Because he deserved it and he didn't need the grass preparation like he did last year. He knows how to play on the surface. He is the defending Wimbledon champion. He needed to go get a couple of matches. I'm not saying like if he wins Queens, fantastic, even better. I'm just saying that tournament is not nearly to John's point. That tournament is not nearly as important to him as it is to Jess Pagula, who knows she can play well on the surface. She knows the same things we do. But you need to create that confidence. Confidence is king, Confidence is queen. She needed that tournament more than someone like Alcaraz needed Queens this time. Simple as that. So props to our winners.
Speaker 1:This has been a racket rundown brought to you by Wilson. Uh, we are going to take a quick break and on the other side of this, we are going to get into Wimbledon. I'm going to tell you why. It is probably my favorite place on planet earth and I still get sick to my stomach when I walk through the gates. Uh, but we're going to get to that. Afterwards, we're going to tell you all the greatest things which makes it, uh, which make it in my mind, uh, the greatest sporting venue. Uh, on in the history of the world. Um, I just love it that much. Uh, JW would tell you what it's like from his perspective. I'll tell you what it's like, uh, from mine. And uh, we'll get to that after the break. Thanks for listening to serve.
Speaker 1:And now we get to the part of the show where we discuss Wimbledon and kind of. I guess the best way to describe the way I'm thinking about this is why it gives us the feels that it gives us. It's just, it's so perfect. Everything about it in my mind, is perfect. The courts, when you walk in and they haven't been played on, they're mowed a certain way, they smell a certain way. You see the same people working at the tournament because they're members of the club. You feel that, and not in a stuffy way, in like a welcome to our home, welcome to our living room type of way. And oh, by the way, we're going to play the biggest tournament in tennis also.
Speaker 1:I just fell in love with it very, very quickly. I absolutely love it there. I think my favorite day of the year would be the first day that you get to Wimbledon, and I always kind of played pretty well at Queens, and so I would always consciously stay in central London for Queens because I wanted them to feel like separate events. Most players, when they get to Wimbledon, they rent houses and you're all around Wimbledon Village and I could do 30 minutes only on Wimbledon Village being the best place on earth. I wanted it to feel separate and I wanted to feel like moving day on that Monday where we're going to Wimbledon, that excitement, that buzz. I didn't want to burn those feelings during Queens. I wanted them to feel like a very, very distinct change.
Speaker 1:Other people did it differently. Leighton Hewitt would also. He also won Queens four times. He would rent the house out of Wimbledon and drive back and forth to to Queens. So from central London, um, with no traffic. I don't even want to know why people say that, because there's always traffic there, uh, but a half hour, 45 minutes outside of London with traffic, who knows, it could be an hour and a half Um, just take the tube, it's easier. Um, but it's, it's just. It's just, it's just magic. Um, the traditions, the players, the winners, the rules they have.
Speaker 1:But then someone telling you a rule in a very friendly tone, Like I got called in to the I used to call it the principal's office. It was Alan Mills uh, God rest his soul One of my favorite people, who was the tournament referee forever. I, Reebok had made me some shoes. There was too much black on them and I was like I got nothing. Like I can, I can put white out on them and I can adjust it. That probably won't look as good and he goes, he goes. What did he say? He always had the amazing way of putting stuff and he would call me in and like he kind of had this, you know, smirk that you know, I think he knew that I could take a joke.
Speaker 1:Um, and he goes. Well, you know, contrary to popular belief, we're not completely irrational. Just don't do it next year. I was like I love you so much, you're the best, like it's just, it's that type of thing, and I think people view it as this. Like you know, stuffy place, it's just, they have these traditions and I never felt intimidated by them. I. It felt like a warm hug to me. I always thought it was cool. Uh, how do you, how do you feel when you, when you walk through the? Uh, jw.
Speaker 2:Did you just say this was the greatest sports venue in the world? Yeah, I said that very cavalierly. Um no, I but you said you said that and I'm like, oh shit, well what, what could top that?
Speaker 1:and I'm like you know what, I don't know if you, uh, I think that's a defensible position yeah, and maybe you like maybe you like the masters, or maybe you like lambeau field, or maybe you like wrigley field, or maybe you like you know a soccer stadium that I've never been to but there's no way you can definitively think what I'm saying is nuts In a world where apparently everything I say can be considered nuts. That can't be considered nuts. Even if you don't agree with me, I fully believe it.
Speaker 2:I'm tired of your Churchill Downs disparagement.
Speaker 3:No, I think you're totally right.
Speaker 2:One of my hot takes on Wimbledon is that I mean it's tremendous. Again nobody goes to Wimbledon and says, eh, people go to the Indy 500 and they say, okay, I checked that off my list and now my ears are ringing and I smell like smoke and I don't need to do that again. Nobody goes to Wimbledon and says, nah, didn't live up to the hype, but I always what can you name me another property that passes up more money in revenue? Right? So there's no naming rights. There's no McLaren on center court, there's no crazy secondary ticketing market where I mean they pass up so much revenue, prioritizing tradition, and I feel like that makes it more valuable. So the fact that it is not the Barclays Bank Center Court, I'm sure they could get $25 million a year if Center Court were sponsored. Easy, I'm sure, courtside signage, I'm sure, letting you wear your black shoes because of the money they pass up, and it's also.
Speaker 2:It also sort of weirdly you mentioned the masters or we talk about some of these sort of elegant events and it's weirdly populist Like you can wait in line in a queue and spend 29 pounds, which is way over 40 bucks, and sit two rows back of Roger Federer. I mean it's not it's. It's very elegant and tasteful, but there's also this kind of rowdy open to the public. You know, everyone that wants to watch tennis should be able to. They have a great program where you can leave your ticket on the way out so somebody that waits in line can then take it and take your spot.
Speaker 2:It's sort of it's weirdly not elitist. It's in the old version of populist, in the pre-2016 version of populist. It's weirdly a people's event for all the elegance. I also love the three. At one point I think there were three signs and it was, uh, it was the brand of the tennis ball. It was, uh, rolex had some deal and they had the official clock and it was something called robinson's barley water. I, I don't know what barley water quite is it's it's.
Speaker 1:We finally got to one of the parts of wimbledon. That isn't great.
Speaker 2:Robinson sucks all right, but uh, so they're not, mike, I'm sorry, I just they're not going to sponsor like I would.
Speaker 1:I would rather I. I mean the fact that, like, if you gave me uh, if you gave me like olipop is obviously fantastic. If you gave me an olipop and you put it outside and filled half of it with lake water, I would still drink it over robinson's it's uh, someone said it was like what you take before your.
Speaker 2:Have you had a colonoscopy? Have you had a colonoscopy yet?
Speaker 1:no, I was hoping I was actually gonna make that the next episode so uh no.
Speaker 2:But you go, you look at the us open right, and you get these emails sometimes and they say you know, we have, you know, non-alcoholic craft beer sponsorship category. It's the official tequila of the US Open. You know the players, it's hot and all of a sudden out come the Continental Airlines umbrellas and there are about 80,000 pieces of signage and brands. It's just a different way to run an event. But Wimbledon, for all its sort of, you know, everyone thinks it's snooty and it's elegant, it's tradition. It's actually a really cool people's event, it's no, I think the grass is part of it.
Speaker 2:I think the fact that I think what you said is really interesting. There are a lot of rules but they're not obnoxious, they're just sort of you sort of go with the tradition, but you're not considered like a Philistine if you, if you run afoul of something, it's. It's sort of the perfect distance from London, where it feels like you're in the English countryside, but you say it's 25 minutes on the tube if you have to get to Hyde Park. The fact that I mean, I'm curious. Just talk more about your experience as a player, because you're not there as someone who's made a bucket list trip. You're there to do work. What do you think differentiates it most from your run-of-the-mill event? As someone who's actually there to work and not there?
Speaker 1:because they're a fan. For me it was like so some of this is based in nostalgia and memory for me. I remember for me it was a tradition watching stateside. It was breakfast at Wimbledon and it was always a massive deal in our house. It was even seven years old. I understood it, I got the gravity of it, I knew the champions that had won it. You know, I completely bought in on the history of it. And it's a weird thing because my relationship with Wimbledon ended up being a fantastic one, like I think I probably got along more with the fans there than I did in New York sometimes Right, like I, you know, um it, it, it, and on paper it shouldn't have worked right. You got the brash American who breaks stuff and yells at people and it, you know, wears his hat backwards sometimes, and it was an unlikely uh, you know, unlikely relationship that ended up being so positive and all I wanted you know was that.
Speaker 2:But for me. Can I ask you a question before we go further, and you can confirm or deny this or cut it out? Sure, were you invited to be a member despite not having won the title?
Speaker 1:Yes, did I hear that right? Yeah, yes, I was. Yeah, shockingly. So the rule is for those if you win Wimbledon, you become a member of the All England Club. So people think, like you know, wimbledon is the tournament and that's how it exists. The All England Lawn and Tennis Club is a year round club that people use like a, like a sports club, and it just happens to, you know, you play Wimbledon there. Um, so, like, similar to, the masters is the tournament and Augusta national is the club. Wimbledon is the tournament and, uh, all England club, uh is the event, is the is the host, they host Wimbledon.
Speaker 1:Um, if you win, you become a member um, forever. Um, and so that's that's kind of the way it works. Um, you win, you're in, you don't, you're not Um, and so you know, I, I lifelong dream, I would have loved to have been a member there. You know, obviously you win the tournament, you come close and it doesn't quite happen, and um, so I got a call in um, I remember I was staying at fish's house in LA. Actually, I don't know why we were out there, but, um, we were out there and I had a call. Uh, I think Tim Henman texted me and said Phil Brooks would like to talk to you. Who was the chairman of of uh, the all-in club at the time? Um, and said he'd like to talk to you. You know just tournament and whatever. And so in my mind I'm like, oh, okay, this is cool because I'm now close enough to the game I think I had been out of it a year and a half maybe, I think it was about then it was early 2014. And so I was like, oh, he's probably going to ask me surfaces, locker rooms, player experience. I'm not biased anymore. He knows that I absolutely love this tournament and this venue. I was certainly never shy about telling that to anyone.
Speaker 1:And so I get on the phone. I was like, okay, random phone call, but I think I could probably add value. It wasn't crazy to think that he would call and want some time. And he asked if I would like to be. No, he asked what was it? Would you be offended? He was sensitive to the fact that I hadn't won it.
Speaker 1:Obviously and he's basically in spite of tradition, um, would you consider being a member of the all england club and you know all along long times club um, and I was stunned, one of the happiest moments of my life, like I was absolutely stunned. It's not something I use enough, it's not. It still hurts to go there sometimes. Um, I'm going to go there casually, just as a member, to hit some balls, um, in late August, which will be great, um. But yeah, and and I I started learning that I I developed a really good friendship with uh, so, like the locker room, the head locker room attendant during Wimbledon and the champions locker room which the seated players can use, um, there's a friend of mine named Doug, and you know he was always.
Speaker 1:He's this English guy who was into baseball scores, and so we'd come in, I'd talk about my fantasy team. We'd, you know bullshit, I'd hit putts, rain delays, uh, you know, for three weeks every year, you know we would, we would ham it up, and I just really enjoyed him. He became a good friend of mine, um, and I learned after the fact that he really pushed uh, that for me, um, kind of from the inside, and so you never know who's watching, you never think that. You know Doug is, is, is going to be able to push you, you know, in that direction, um, and so I was pretty humbled.
Speaker 1:I was even more humbled when I found out it was from not from him, because I don't think he had the decision-making power, but apparently he had a, you know, voiced his support, which was, which was, which was really nice for me, you know, because he's the one who's looking at players when, when there are no cameras right, and he kind of sees the balls and strikes of it. So I was, I was pretty honored, um, you know, I don't know that my life would be much different if I wasn't, frankly, but I sure as hell I'm happy and honored that that I am, um, you know, and it's it's still weird to me that I could get jump on a plane and go there and hit balls anytime, um, but certainly a place that it's pretty nice to walk through. If you see any of your analysts when you're watching, with a pin on their jacket like a Wimbledon pin, that's a member's pin, so they are members, so it's a pretty cool thing.
Speaker 2:That's a great story, and just how cool is it but also how nicely does it speak of Wimbledon that the fact that the locker room attendant lobbied for you clearly had some heft and some weight. Great story. I hope you make more use of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too. And also I got to say someone else who was like the ultimate gentleman throughout that whole process was Tim Henman. Gentleman throughout that whole process was Tim Henman. Um, obviously, a member has a big, you know voice in the room there. Um, you know however many times semifinalists um, he was great about walking me through you know the protocols and I knew it for a long time.
Speaker 1:And then I played an event at Royal Albert hall where all of a sudden it was made public, uh, later that year, um, in the fall, while I was over there, and so I got to take Brooke, my wife, there to you know, have a meal with the chairman and walk her.
Speaker 1:So the walk that I had made a million times from the locker room to center court, where you're walking through a club it's not like an arena like the US Open, where you're underneath, kind of you know the underbelly of the stadium and concrete and this and that. And she got to see like I got to walk that, like the walk that you do when you play in a final, where you know the famous quote the door's open. We got to make that walk together, which was really cool and I think it was a cool experience for her to see as well. I love that day. I hope to you know to do it more. I think as hopefully, as as my kids start understanding it a little bit more, you know they'll think it's as cool as as I do.
Speaker 2:Do you pay dues? I don't know, All right. So so the reason I don't want to, I don't know no, but in keeping with our theme about how cool this place is, the dudes are like less than my ymca. I mean the dude yeah I mean.
Speaker 2:The fact that I don't know means that if I am paying, and that it's not really causing me much stress um, I and I love I think people don't realize that that you're right they use this as a club year round. So the interview room, which is quite nice, you know, in november that's where they're going to show whatever billy madison, you know that's that's like the movie night for the club. Um, you sort of forget that, like, mrs nussbaum plays doubles on court 18 a few days after the tournament's over. Um, it's a. That's a great story. I'd never heard that.
Speaker 1:Uh, yeah, yeah, it was, uh I listen, I feel I think there's two other, two other if I'm in gosh. I hope I don't get this wrong, but I I'm 99 sure I'm right and we can edit it if not. So you'll never hear it. If I'm wrong, two other players, ken Rosewall and Lendl, were invited to join the club even though they didn't win the singles. I think that's right. Anyways, so that's Wimbledon. I think I kind of flirted with it and then didn't do it.
Speaker 1:My single favorite day of the year is the first practice day. So as the tournament's going on, the grounds are heaving. There's Henman Hill. You walk through the outer courts. You can just walk up to most of them, like there's a side with stands, and then there's like between courts. You can walk between them and just kind of hang out between and check out the matches. It's like equal parts, the most perfect place you've ever seen. And then it's like a tennis festival in some parts where you can hang out on the hill and watch the big screen and the way that they are able to balance tradition with I don't know experience, where you don't feel uptight when you're there and maybe my experience isn't everyone's experience, but that's always the way I felt like you can buy a grounds pass, go to Henman Hill, have a day at Wimbledon, see the entire venue, like you're watching the screen outside of court one, you look, you know 45 degrees to your right and you see the, the, the, the shape of center court. It's just so cool, um. And so the first day you get there for practice, uh, you normally get an hour, if you're a seated player, to hit on site and then over at a rangy park, which, by the way, another nice touch to hit at a rangy park you don't have to wear all whites. So all of your warmups, all your practice sessions, it's not as if you're, you know, taking your starchy whites out to, you know to, to go warm up for a match.
Speaker 1:Um, so, again, a touch that they get perfectly right, um, orangi Park is, you know, basically a big row of grass and they're all together. There's no space between them and that's where the players want to practice everything else. But during the tournament, to get from, our locker rooms are kind of in center court, right. So, like second level center court, um, you walk down this long staircase, a couple of flights and all of a sudden you walk underneath all of Wimbledon. So there's 30,000 people up above you, uh, a floor above you. You're walking underneath them to Orangi Park, through. You know, the kitchen doors open up when you're walking, like it's where all the you know deliveries are, the infrastructure 18 wheelers park down there. That's how they get the whole thing.
Speaker 1:And there's, you know, you, the players can walk down below there and then you walk up the stairs and there's tons of fans hanging over the entrance to Aranguay Park when you're coming from underground and it's so much fun because you'll be practicing on like court one right there, one of the first couple of courts where the public can watch practice. It's so cool. But then you'll hear the fans just start going nuts, like it's like the Beatles and you're like Serena and that first fan who sees the person who's walking up, and then all the fans just start going crazy. It's like this, tell, because all of a sudden you're underground and you peek up and all of a sudden your face is showing and you just see. You look up and you just see the sea of people kind of leaning over the railings, just going crazy. So it's weird because you have this like the traditional space of center court, where there's decorum, tradition, and then you go to Aranguay Park and it's the Beatles, right, it is the, the, the, the, seeing your favorite players up close. You have to walk directly in between all of the fans, like you're on a staircase and they're on both sides and you're walking right through high-fiving doing the whole thing. Um, so that's during the tournament.
Speaker 1:Before the tournament, I took the.
Speaker 1:I'm a pretty quick Walker, I'm a fidgety person. I can focus on something for about four seconds. The walk from outside of center court where you walk down, where the public will be five or six days from then, the slowest walk through Wimbledon when there's not anyone on site, there's not a person there besides the players, and players alone can't fill that place, it can't make it feel full. That slow walk through Wimbledon, past Henman Hill, past the video board, over to Orangi Park, just casually walking into Orangi Park and you know that that feeling is going to go away and be replaced by something that's magic also, five or six days later, is just maybe the best walk in all of tennis. And I say that with respect to walking out through the clubhouse for the finals, which is also. I could talk for a half hour about how special that is. Um, but it's just amazing, they get so many of the notes right. Um, it's the, the place of my biggest heartbreak in this sport, and it simultaneously makes my heart full every time I think about it.
Speaker 2:So I think I think we have to do a special episode on more behind the scenes. This is great. We've been there a million times. I haven't heard half this. It's like half you're describing like half, half opera, half minor league baseball game.
Speaker 1:I guess that's right. Producer Mike a half minor league baseball game.
Speaker 4:I guess that's right. Producer. Mike, I was going to ask about the dress code, do you? Do you? Can you talk about the history behind the kind of all whites Like why, I don't know, it's been that way, huh.
Speaker 1:It never bothered me so never really thought to ask why, like I just kind of liked it. I know there was some. You know Andre didn't like like it at first and I'm sure he came around after he won in 92, he literally wouldn't go play there a couple of times because he was anti-dress code and he was the rebel. And they even won. You know he won them over and you know Wimbledon won him over. I know he speaks with reverence about it. Now I just most of the time and I've said it on this podcast before doing something, just because that's the way it always been done, I think is is is normally dumb and in Wimbledon it's just perfect to me it's just I don't know why.
Speaker 2:What did Alan Mills say to you, though? Cause I think there's something there too. They're they're not unreasonable. So there was a tradition of having that open Sunday, and now there no longer is, and they've made some concessions, especially, understandably, to female players, about all white. They've bent a little bit on that, and I think the players you know, the players wear different shoes, and the players give a little, and I think the club gives a little too, and it's actually a very nice kind of meeting of reasonable people. I've got wait, shit, I've got to I got to bounce. You know what this means? It, um, I've got wait, shit, I've got to. Uh, I gotta bounce. You know what this means? It means I'm gonna have to wait till next time to congratulate you on the serving up dreams award. You're gonna get the first night of the us open. Uh, I gotta jump on this other call sounds like a good time for you.
Speaker 1:Just sign off like are we, do we run a? Do we run a show now?
Speaker 4:producer mike where people just just just fucking leave whenever they want. See you later, guys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right cool big gulps, huh. Well, see you later. And there he goes, geez, and then he's gone. Like I mean, this question is a work ethic. If he didn't work 16 hours a day, you know to button up the white thing.
Speaker 4:I just googled it real quick. I, a lot of people allude to the fact that in the 1880s, when the rules were written you know it was a, because it was so people didn't sweat to death. You know, because it was unseemly to see the sweat stains. But also I, I can't. They were probably playing in like wool, you know it's probably yeah the cooler way to play it's horrible it was all whites, but yeah, I think it looks pretty good. I like it too I think it's awesome.
Speaker 1:And over time, to john's point, like it used to be all white, white, white and now and now. Then they were like allow a little stripe and then they would allow a little, so it's almost like a bend. Don't break defense on everything. Anyways, I love Wimbledon. Someone else who loved Wimbledon right in my face Oftentimes one, roger Federer, lost to him in three finals. He won it a million times.
Speaker 1:Something that's interesting about this podcast and I'll say this and then we'll go to break is that producer Mike social Sophie, before this podcast. It's funny because we're watching like tennis fandom expand in real time right To where, like you know, mike now knows how to say labor cup, which is cool, maybe, which is well. He, whether or not he does it, he knows the right way to say it. Uh, now, uh. But social sophie, on the other side of this break back with another movie review. She did challengers. She watched the rogererer documentary. We have not talked about it. We don't. Actually, we kind of have the framework and skeleton of a show when we write it, but we always want the first conversation to actually be when we've pressed record. So 99% of the things you hear are the first time that we have talked about it with the group Social Sophie back on the other side to review the roger federer documentary. We'll be right back, all right. Welcome back to served. Uh, it's like she's siskel and she's ebert dated reference for anyone under 30. But mike understands I'm sure Shots fired.
Speaker 1:I don't even know the name of this documentary, I just call it the Roger Federer documentary. I know it's the last 12 days leading into Lover Cup, otherwise known as Lever Cup, and when he retired and my memories of that going in before Social Sophie goes into it. One of the moments that caused me actual human tears was just Rafa flying in for a doubles match to play with Roger to be a part of the goodbye. Them literally sitting on a bench, the whole world watching it's as if no one was there, just crying out of respect for each other and out of respect for kind of their outsized presence in each other's lives. Um, that meant so much to me.
Speaker 1:I had to go on air on TC live right after that and I almost didn't make it through the show Like it was. It was. It was very hard and uh, I think they're both gems of humans. Um, as I kind of joke about Roger him kicking my ass lighthearted. We have a friendship that will live on forever. We still text, we check in.
Speaker 1:He has, you know, different things here and there, just always an extremely thoughtful present person, um, who I imagine it would be very easy to get lost in the tornado of being Federer. Right, I've seen it, I've had a first row seat to it. I can imagine what his reality is like. But Social Sophie watched it and I'm curious because I know, like all of our history, sophie doesn't. She's heard, I think she's heard about our history, but wasn't therefore it wasn't a tennis fan during. It Is probably too young to have given a shit about it in real time. But I'm curious, social Sophie, what did you think of it? Not having kind of knowing, I guess, federer's reputation, having seen him, not having been a real-time fan of his when he was playing?
Speaker 3:Well, they really set the scene when it opens with a shot of him right in front of his trophies and you're like, okay, he's probably really good at this thing that this documentary is about. It's just him standing in front of them. That's the opening shot. After the shot of him like destroying you at Wimbledon, like they kind of open it with oh, they open with that, is that true?
Speaker 1:Oh great, I didn't even know that I made an appearance.
Speaker 3:Great, that's fantastic, you are kind of like maybe he's good at this thing, um, so so you get that right away and, like you said, it's a lot less about his career and more about his retirement, like they're counting down those final 12 days until, um, the labor cup and it kind of just takes you through this like agony that he's going through of like I really don't technically a have to retire.
Speaker 3:It's a choice, but I know it's the best thing. I really don't want to do it, but it's like what's best for me, um, and you really see him kind of like bear the weight of he. He knows his role in tennis as this sort of like I don't even know what the word is Like he's the biggest, yeah, he's the biggest guy. He knows it, but he also carries it really humbly, but he's very aware and so he knows. I need to make this statement, um, in a way that respects my fans, respects the sport, respects all the people that I played, and he does that really really well, and like his announcement that he makes and then every move that he makes until the labor cup and then beyond, um, and so watching anyone love something that much like it could have been about river dancing for all I care like watching someone love anything that much is so interesting and I feel, I feel I feel like a reach.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying maybe it's maybe a little reach, like maybe it is big, big, flat river.
Speaker 4:Why river dancing?
Speaker 3:big, flatly guys here. But you know river dancing. I'm gonna watch like if it was like the best guy in Riverdancing. I'm going to watch Like if it was someone who loved it that much.
Speaker 1:That's the shit that.
Speaker 4:I know that's the doc, by the way 100% true.
Speaker 1:The lead Riverdance guy, the best Riverdance, the Federer of Riverdancing, the Novak of Riverdancing is Michael Flatley.
Speaker 3:How do you know?
Speaker 1:that I don't know it goes in and it doesn't go out. I'm so glad I said that that was insane. That's crazy. I'm so glad I said that it's Michael Flatley.
Speaker 3:I don't have to because Immediate believe you.
Speaker 1:Anyway, sorry.
Speaker 3:But no, if the guy's that good at it and they love it that much, it was addicting to watch. I watched it twice you guys give the best homework. I watched it Friday night and last night again. Um, and then it it takes you through. What I thought was really interesting was that his kids were also touring with him through maybe like the last half of his career, I guess, um which which just all I really know about tennis is you, and that wasn't the case with you and so it was interesting to see like his kids really go through the process as well. They were bawling, crying, blubbering at the labor cup and it's because they were so much a part of it and I thought that was really really nice to see.
Speaker 3:And he honored his wife so well, just kind of saying, you know, she, she really could have stopped me and probably wanted to stop me years and years ago, but she didn't, because I love this thing and we both love this thing and it's been the center of our whole lives. And then obviously, there's the Rafa angle, where they're just again blubbering the entire time. I really wanted them to show the shot where they're like holding hands and crying, but they never did. That's like. My one qualm with the whole thing is that I never got the shot of them holding hands and crying. But beyond Rafa, like he also does the same thing with Novak and Andy Murray and even the players that are coming in behind them all like he really pays so much respect a lot of the times it like wasn't about him. The documentary that was about him, um, which is probably just a testament to who he is yeah, I read.
Speaker 1:I read a quote from them from documentary, and it's probably something that we all are guilty of in that generation. He said something along the lines of I didn't give Novak the respect he deserved when he was younger. I don't think I did either. When he came in, he was the guy breaking up the Beatles, right, he was this new guy who didn't care that these guys were great, so he wanted to take their lunch, like he was there to steal titles from them, and I liked that. Roger said it out loud. You know I, I, I made the same mistake. You know, it's just. You know someone comes in, I.
Speaker 1:I probably, early in my career, presented badly to some people too, like I just did. Like I probably piss some people off. I probably, early in my career, presented badly to some people too. Like I just did. Like I probably pissed some people off. I probably got in the faces of veterans of tour during matches and did things that I wouldn't have done or didn't do six years later. I like that he showed the humility in even a documentary about him. These are all the things that I got right. They're very obvious, but also we're all flawed. This is what I got wrong and I like that he said it out loud.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he pretty much said exactly that. And then they show him having kind of this moment with Novak at the end, where you don't know what he told him, but Novak kind of breaks down crying and it's really, it's really sweet. He he's, you know, kind of whispers in Andy Murray's ear, whispers in Rob's ear, whispers in Novak's ear, and then, um, he sort of breaks down and I think he probably said exactly, maybe, exactly that like he kind of proved him wrong in the end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that, sorry, go ahead where the word fanatic exists for a reason and I hate it. My number one thing that I hate online about tennis is that because you like someone better, you feel the need to drag down others when the players don't view it that way. Obviously there are peaks and valleys, the intensity involved. I've had run-ins with people that have involved. I've had run-ins with people that have. I've had run-ins on the court with marty fish, who's like a brother to me, like you need to understand as fans that there is a certain, there's a silo of people on earth who fully understand what you do, what you're going through through, how you go about it and how hard it is to be elite at a worldwide, global sport. So you can not like someone's entourage, you can not like people in the orbit of these insane rivalries.
Speaker 1:Respect wins, it always wins. You can disagree with someone, you can yell at someone, you can say things that you mean in the moment that you get over later. The fact that the moment you're describing of Roger saying something to Novak and Novak having the respect for Roger and they've had bumpy moments they're well documented those get. If, if those two can push everything aside and say you were great, you're a reason why I was great, why the fuck can't fans do it too? If you want to support your guy, support the things that your guy respects, support the people that he respects, you don't have to like them.
Speaker 1:Respect needs to be a baseline. You cannot say you know, I like this person, this, so this person's a piece of shit loser, like that's just not true. It's not true. It's not true. I know these people. It's not true. Not true, it's not true. I know these people. It's not true. Save the shit. It's not me against you, it's us, and we are all better for it. Go ahead, sophie. How does this end? How do his kids go through it? What are his takeaways post-Labor Cup? I'm sure they had like an exit interview and then I'll kind of just give a couple of my thoughts.
Speaker 3:They say in the beginning, or he says when he's about to make this announcement, that he wants to make it really clear that he's not saying I'm retiring and I have no idea what's next, I'm retiring and maybe you'll see me again, maybe you won't. He wants to make it really clear that he wants his role in tennis, whatever that means, to continue on and he wants to stay so involved. And so they do leave it pretty unknown, to be fair, other than what I just said, that he wants to stay in the sport in whatever capacity he possibly can. But I mean, they did leave it kind of open-ended.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean he's part of the ownership group.
Speaker 3:He created Labor Cup with his agency that was really interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he's part of the ownership group. He created labor cup, um, with his agency. That was so he's there. Yeah, so he's there forever and props to like. But tony godzik, who's also a friend of mine, who's roger's agent? Uh, life lifelong agent.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, they created a really special entity and like the fact this documentary that's almost the perfect venue for this documentary to follow, because they started labor cup literally, and I don't. This isn't their opinion, this isn't their thesis, this is my opinion of what I've seen from the event. Um, it feels like they started with what will be the best possible tv product that doesn't need to chew up three weeks of the season, three days. All the superstars played around the globe inside access, listening to Rafa, coach Novak on a switch over Like it doesn't get better than that and vice versa, it just doesn't get better than that. Um, the game will forever need Roger. They just will. Um, he's.
Speaker 1:He's the biggest crossover star that I've witnessed in tennis. He's like it's impossible for your Q rating to be as gigantic as his was and also not find anyone who dislikes him. You can find someone who dislikes everybody, and a lot of that's based on team sports. I like the Yankees. Therefore I hate any great Red Sox. I like this, so I hate that. Fine, at a certain moment in time, like my fans, didn't hate Roger and all he did was ruin my life for 10 years, like on court, like it's just I and I had this weird when, when he was made that announcement, I remember being on tennis channel and the one thing that I said and I still mean it to this day is I think the biggest compliment you can give someone after you've been a father is I hope my kids grow up and act like this person Not famous, not as successful, just treat people with the level of respect that he does, and I saw it. I mean a couple of examples.
Speaker 1:I watched him one year at Wimbledon before one of our finals, and I'm a nervous wreck. And he's playing fucking games on his phone couldn't be calmer, which was annoying in its own way. But you have a couple of players who aren't as good. Maybe they're in a mixed doubles final or they're not Federer at Wimbledon. Like they can go to Starbucks, right, they can go to Starbucks and Wimbledon village and probably be left alone.
Speaker 1:Regrip the rackets in the training room which everyone shares the same training room. When you're stretching and doing all that, a bunch of tables lined up um one entrance, one exit, uh, re-gripping rackets, and then they just drop their trash on the floor and walk out and I watch him having a conversation with someone, see that and just casually go over and pick up you know three old grips and a bunch of plastic and just throw them away, while maintaining his conversation, not saying like you know, I would have been, like I would have done it, but I would like these fucking pricks, like I, would have had some commentary about it, which was bitter casually did it, heually did it.
Speaker 1:He just did it. Put it away. I'm Roger Federer. I've won this tournament seven times already, six times already, whatever it is, and he consistently did stuff like that. He knew the name of the person who was looking after the tournament in the locker room each week, right, he, he, just he just carried himself with a certain grace and a certain that.
Speaker 1:I always get asked you know, are you jealous? I? I'm generally not really a jealous person, like I don't. I'm. I'm happy for people's successes. I wish I would have done things, but I don't look back and say I wish I would have won 10 grand slams, and maybe that's why I didn't. But I look back, I'm like I would have loved one more, right, I just.
Speaker 1:But in people said are you jealous of Roger?
Speaker 1:No, the only thing I'm jealous of in the history of our relationship and all the titles and the lopsidedness of our general being, was his ease of operation and how he could do these things and be in a good mood, and there's no chance he was in a good mood every day, but he faked it better than any person I've seen him and Rafa, frankly, um. But Roger had to carry more of the burden. He could give press conferences in like 18 languages, right, he was the first one, he was the greatest before the other two came and became the greatest and then the greatest Right, and so I think he had a lot of that and he was the guy that was immediately the Statesman after Pete and Andre, like he had to carry that, that burden, and he had other personalities and then the youngsters and Rafa comes along and you know I play a lane of this brash American but I'm nowhere near no one, no one's near him. No one, even for a moment in time, is near him, and I'll tell you this I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, please no.
Speaker 3:I can tell anecdotal stories all day. There's just a funny moment in the locker room where it's like Team Europe at the Labor Cup and it's Roger Rafa Berrettini I think Sitsapas is in there, all just kind of like chatting in the locker room and they get on the subject of that Rafa Sanago match where he calls him to the net about his kind of delayed grunting. Do you remember that surely? Um, and Berrettini is saying oh no, he doesn't do it on purpose, he doesn't do it on purpose, trust me. Like I've played with him since I was a kid, I know him really well. He doesn't do it on and he's sort of like arguing back and forth with Rafa and Rafa's like no, no for me, he did it on purpose, like I promised for me. And it was just a funny little glimpse into the locker room, like they're kind of going back and forth at it, but still being super respectful. It was just like a nice little glimpse into into that and that that those are the do it on purpose.
Speaker 1:Maybe it does a little on purpose you know a little on purpose.
Speaker 1:You know, and maybe it's a little on purpose, we'll do this and I could tell you know, nice gesture, roger stories for an entire episode. I'm I can't wait to watch it. I wanted to, you know, let you watch it and kind of just speak from my own personal experience. I'll tell you, I got inducted into the hall of fame in 2017. And, um, with our good friend Kim Kleisters, um, uh, amongst others, and the, I'll give you one guess when the first text message the day that I got inducted was waiting for me when I woke up and it was from.
Speaker 3:Roger.
Speaker 1:It was three paragraphs. Wasn't a have a fun day? It was three paragraphs Our history. I appreciate your friendship. This is well-deserved. You know, yada, yada, yada. First one out of the shooter. And like he shouldn't know the day that someone's getting inducted, he knows that in the morning it's not an accident. You start early, enjoy the day Like it was just, and there's a lot of examples of that. So I'll forever. You know, I can't even be a little bit bitter about Roger. I just can't. He's proven to me too many times uh, the person that he is. I'm happy that a lot of other people, including new fans like social Sophie, are getting a uh, a look behind uh the curtain, uh at at him and in the, in the way that he uh exists. Um, anyways, I can't wait to watch it now. Uh, uh, social Sophie, do you have any closing thoughts about it? What are your? What's your like biggest takeaway from this doc? Or, if you have a couple, shoot your shot.
Speaker 3:I mean, first of all, it really I don't know if this was their intention, but it really made me want a documentary docu-series on his career. Like it made you want more of him and so hopefully maybe they'll do something like that in the future of him and so hopefully maybe they'll do something like that in the future. Um takeaway is I mean he talks a lot about being a, a ball kid and and Basel and um and it just it's inspiring and you go like I mean I guess you really can do anything if you're extremely good at the thing that you love, um, and also work extremely hard, like you did, and it's, I mean it sort of leaves you with that sort of inspirational taste in your mouth of like wow, he really did just love this thing so much, work extremely hard, and now he's the face of tennis.
Speaker 4:So yeah, how many. How many stars, how many little Andy erotic faces. Do you give it out of five?
Speaker 3:There's no reason not to give it five, like there's nothing bad about it. There's nothing bad about it. Like they do that they call.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe the only reason is that you're going to get fired?
Speaker 3:No joking obviously I would give it 5.1.
Speaker 1:5.1? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Just like an earlobe. Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:We'll put that on the screen. The best moment truly is when they're about to make the announcement and, uh, his agent first calls anna to warn her that the announcement is going to go out and I just love that.
Speaker 1:She's, uh, it's, she's you know, rightfully so a massive roger fan. I got to see that whole vortex too. Like the roger hosted met gala last year and then again, a, a gracious thing, um invited Brooklyn and I, which, like, obviously we weren't you know, brooks been before, but I've obviously never been invited Um, uh, and, and we sat like he's hosting and we literally sat at the next table, but like our chairs backed up to each other, so inevitably we ended up leaning back and talking about you know, god knows what um it was, but it's just, it's just thoughtful, um, and, and so I've always, I've always certainly appreciated, uh, those gestures, um, and I can't wait to, can't wait to watch it. I love, I love that there were those moments between, uh, our greats, uh, including Andy Murray by the way, with Novak, we haven't even talked about him.
Speaker 3:There's so much great stuff. He's phenomenal. I mean it's just respect wins.
Speaker 1:There are moments we don't like each other, there are moments where we disagree. We play for some pretty big things, respect wins. At the end of the day you look backwards, respect wins. I'm glad they caught those moments because maybe people will believe us when we say things like respect wins and we make mistakes, we judge things the wrong way. We also extend grace to each other, uh, because we we realize we need each other and the, you know, the most important parts of our work lives involve those people and that should always, uh remain special.
Speaker 1:I was going to do a whole thing about sleepers on the men's side for Wimbledon, how I think we start with that for a quick conversation before we do our live draw show, which will be out on Saturday on T2. So I'm going to spend and you've been so nice and I don't. I think it feels wedged in because we've we've kind of gotten to this Wimbledon into Roger thing and there's a certain tone to it. To get back to balls and strikes feels a little weird. So I'm not going to do it but, with your permission, I think we start. Before I actually look at the draw, I think I'm going to tell you these are the names I'm looking for. I'm really interested where they're going to fall. And then we let a rip tater chip. What do you think? Producer Mike.
Speaker 4:I think it sounds like a great idea. Yeah, and so the the T2 show will be 52 minutes, you know, but then the full extended draw special, because we will go longer than 52 minutes. Uh, that'll, that'll be on youtube and and where you get your podcast yeah.
Speaker 1:So just for for those of you that didn't catch our roland garris preview show, uh, we do it a little bit differently. Most people digest the draw. Look at it, have a day with it. Uh, you're getting our first raw reaction. Look, so worth time to look at it. Uh, I'll look at it. Then we start filling in our winners and all of a sudden we're at the quarters and it's like, oh okay, well, all right, so these are my eight quarter and then we walk it through.
Speaker 1:So the first time that I'm looking at the draw, uh, you will have the ability to listen and then we will fill them out. Uh, to the best of our knowledge, I'll give a sounds like I'll do a quick little preview of these are the names. I want to know where Baratini is going to land in the draw. I want to know uh, you know X, y and Z. Uh, sini Akava is going to end up in the draw. Katie Bolter is going to end up in the draw. Who's going to play? So we'll go through all that stuff, I assure you. So, thank you so much. Social Sophie, great job. Thank you for watching. Appreciate you. Breaking it down for us Sounds like it's a rave review. Everyone should go watch the Roger doc and we will catch you next time on serve. Thanks for listening.