2024 US OPEN: Jannik Sinner controversy, bad calls in Cincy, and US Open Preview - LIVE from the Chase Lounge

LIVE FROM THE CHASE LOUNGE: Andy Roddick, Jon Wertheim, and Producer Mike sat down at the US Open for a live show talking through the Jannik Sinner doping controversy, the bad umpire call from Cincinnati, and then they preview who the ’24 US Open and talk the players to look out for.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Controversy Surrounding Yannick Sinner's Doping
• 14:30 Doping Controversies in Tennis
• 28:11 Common Sense Prevails in Tennis
• 34:06 US Open Storylines
• 47:36 US Open Women's Contenders Discussion
• 1:00:52 Davis Cup and American Tennis History
• 1:14:35 Ticket Accessibility and Doping Concerns
• 1:26:49 Engaging With Seal on Tennis

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

All right, hey everybody, I am Andy Roddick. Welcome to another edition of Served. This time we know we've made it, guys. We are here. Tell us where we are, Mike.

Speaker 2: 0:20

We are in the Chase Lounge at the US Open.

Speaker 3: 0:22

At the US Open, yeah, we are in the Chase Lounge at the US Open, at the US.

Speaker 1: 0:25

Open, and that's not just Wertheim's friends from the city.

Speaker 4: 0:34

We actually have people here, so thank you to everyone who came.

Speaker 1: 0:38

You know Chase has been such a great host Newly renovated Chase Lounge. At the US Open, the Chase customers have access to reservations throughout the tournament. Access includes complimentary merch refreshments and nightly happy hour but not just nightly, because I see the front row here has already started.

Speaker 3: 0:54

I see some honey deuces. I see some honey deuces 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.

Speaker 2: 0:59

That's great. You make me jealous. The great thing about a.

Speaker 1: 1:04

Honey Deuce is that the cups are nice, like they have the names on them and stuff. But I'll walk around this place and I'll see people that keep a Honey Deuce cup in their pocket for 12 hours. I'm like the cup's not that nice, but it's not like it's not that nice. Anyways, we thank you all for here. Thank that nice. Anyways, we thank you all for here. Thank you to Chase for having us. I've had a great relationship with Chase for a long time. I think it's 42 years that they've been involved in the US Open. So we obviously love our sponsors that invest in tennis and that are here for tennis, and Chase has become synonymous with the US Open. So it is humbling for us in our little podcast that we normally shoot in a garage to be here at the US Open JW. So John Wertheim does this pod, but he's also a 60 Minutes journalist.

Speaker 4: 1:56

Come on who cares.

Speaker 1: 1:57

That sounds boring. Any news? Has anything happened in the last 24 hours that we need to cover? We had a convention last oh, you mean tennis news. Has anything happened in the last 24 hours that?

Speaker 3: 2:08

we need to cover. Well, we had a convention last oh, you mean tennis news?

Speaker 1: 2:09

Yeah, any tennis news. I just got off of a plane. Has anything happened in the last 24 hours that we need to comment on?

Speaker 2: 2:14

Yeah, Andy was over in Europe and then the whole world fell apart for tennis, the whole tennis world fell apart.

Speaker 1: 2:18

Imagine my text when I landed at 3 o'clock yesterday.

Speaker 3: 2:20

So there was some qualifying results out here.

Speaker 1: 2:23

That's not what I'm talking about there was some sponsorship re ups.

Speaker 3: 2:26

The number one player in the world just was revealed to have two anti-doping tests, was exonerated, but now comes into this tournament as a top seed with this controversy swirling. Maybe that was it.

Speaker 1: 2:38

Has anyone else heard that?

Speaker 3: 2:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:40

Okay, I'll tell you. Of any story that we've covered since January this year, this is the one I'm getting the most texts about and the most impatience on Twitter with tell us what you think right now it's a bit of a moving target as information comes in.

Speaker 1: 3:00

I feel like we live in a culture where, if you don't respond in the first 45 seconds, people feel entitled to that opinion Again, john and I don't talk about things off air We'll send articles back and forth, but we don't send opinions back and forth until we get on Break down, where you sit, with the Yannick Center of Things and the doping test. What do you think should have happened? What did happen? What do you think should have happened? What did happen? What are you angry about? Because everyone seems to be angry about something in this story.

Speaker 3: 3:28

Yeah, the unfortunate part about. We all know what happened, right? I mean we're all tennis fans. Explain it to us.

Speaker 1: 3:35

Give us a quick rundown.

Speaker 3: 3:36

Yannick Sinner, number one player in the world, ascending talent. Not that this is relevant, but about as anti-controversial as you can find. I would say. He's like Mr Sunday Morning, like very measured and straight. So that's sort of it's not relevant to the facts but sort of an added layer to this culturally, indian Wells tournament in March.

Speaker 1: 3:56

he essentially fails a doping test for a microscopic bit of three syllables with a, c, a word that I didn't know yesterday. Clostable.

Speaker 3: 4:02

Which actually happens to be legal in Italy as native country, which is relevant to this. Anyway, there was a successful. It was basically in legal terms. It was almost sort of you know, it was sort of like a stay. It was a sort of a mini appeal which meant that he could continue playing and, I think, critically, there was no public revelation, there was no disclosure. So he's playing with this doping case hanging over him, but he's able to keep competing because he's had these successful appeals.

Speaker 3: 4:32

It's a very strange set of circumstances. It's easy to be angry, it's easy to have outrage comes cheap. It's easy to have strong opinions. I think, look, it goes both ways right. I mean, he had what later was judged to be a valid alibi. He was exonerated. There was no negligence, there was no guilt. If you say, listen, you can't play anymore, that's essentially guilt till proven innocent. That's flying in the face of these successful appeals. On the other hand, he continues playing and you say, well, that's a little strange, this guy has this doping violation hanging over him. It's strict liability, which essentially means it's in your body. Therefore you're guilty.

Speaker 3: 5:08

Imagine if he had not been exonerated and played all these events, gotten to number one in the world won big tournaments, including Cincinnati, like 72 hours ago. It's really doping's complicated, right? I mean, we all want level playing field, we all want the integrity of competition to be upheld, but the actual nitty gritty and the details are really complicated. So do you suspend him immediately, which then you run the risk of putting someone on the sidelines who ends up being exonerated, or do you let him continue playing, which is what happened, which is problematic also, both for reasons of transparency, and also imagine if he hadn't been exonerated. So anyway, here we are.

Speaker 3: 5:48

There's a lot of dissatisfaction, but I'm not sure. So like, remember what Churchill said about democracy, like it's the worst system, except for every other. If you look at this fact pattern, I'm not sure there's a better way to have played this. Necessarily, it's complicated and it comes. I mean, the headline is that he was exonerated, but I think there are a lot of questions about process and non-disclosure and it's rubbed a lot of players the wrong way, though I haven't really heard a cogent, coherent argument yeah, I mean there, there, there's, there's feelings, and so what I want to do at the beginning of this conversation is provide a little bit of context of what the reality of doping protocols are for a player.

Speaker 1: 6:30

So I can tell you at least my experience was that it was weighted back in the day, so the higher ranked you were, the more often that you got tested right. No one in baseball really said much about steroids until records started being broken, right, sosa McGuire. All of a sudden we're talking about Hank Aaron's records and Bonds comes in and then everyone gets really pissed off, right. But a guy who has 110 career homers and says that he did it, you don't spend a lot of time on that. So I think the weight of this story is the fact that it is the number one player in the world, one of the best players in the world. Since October of last year. I'm going to tell you things that I know as fact.

Speaker 1: 7:14

So I've heard a lot of people say, like well, there's been people suspended who have missed tests and not actually tested positive, and they've been suspended for 18 months. To me it's kind of a hollow argument. I played 12 years. The only reason that you would miss a test is because you have a reason to miss a test. So what I had to do during my career every day this is weird. I'm going to move like this Is that okay? That's fine. Every day of my career I had to provide an hour that I was available for out of competition testing. So what that looks like in actuality is that if my wife and I went away for a night, we drove three hours out of town, sit at a hotel you made out whatever. You know what I'm talking about. So if we did that, I had to provide that address for that hotel, an hour that I know I would be in that room right. So if I was home, I would normally do 5 to 6 in the morning, because that was the only time I would normally wake up at 6 and then get ready for my training day, and so, sure enough, 10 times a year I knew exactly what it was Like. That comes at like 5 am, doorbell's ringing, it's the doping man coming and I have to. You know it's a completely not awkward experience of a stranger walking in, goes to the restroom with you and watches you pee in a cup. You have to prove that it's completely locked. You're not a name, you are a number. Okay, so there's no, there's no, there's no favorites, you're just a. You're a series of nine numbers that gets sent off. If you never hear about it again, that's great. Luckily, I never heard about anything ever again.

Speaker 1: 9:00

There's an A sample and a B sample that gets sent to different places. The only time the B sample gets touched is if there's something wrong with the A sample, right. So the B sample can live on forever. There's a whole thing. So in baseball they started kind of testing later on the B sample once they knew what they were looking for. Right, the dopers were ahead of the testers for a long time.

Speaker 1: 9:23

Okay, so now let's level set. That's kind of the reality. Every single day you have to provide an hour of your whereabouts. If you don't do that and you miss three tests, that's a pretty big unforced error in my mind, maybe more forgivable than what Yannick is saying on contaminated substance that was rubbed into his skin shows up. So I do want to read you, just for context and because there's also a lot of noise online basically saying like well then, take the Australian Open away in January, take away his win. How could he do that. He beat my favorite player there. Stop, you get tested at every slam, so there's no chance he was not clean at Australian Open if he tested as much as he did. Tennis testing. Okay, to let you know what they picked up.

Speaker 1: 10:21

Okay, so this is from Darren Cahill, who I was on text with this morning, who is Yannick Sinner's coach. Um, the facts are really clear. Uh, we'll be challenging a couple of weeks with every player being asked about it, but that's normal. Um, expected, I would say that's expected. Um, the amount in his system, uh, is one billionth of a gram, or 58,000 times smaller than a grain of salt, which is completely consistent with the explanation. The explanation is a trainer body guy had a cut, tried to heal it with some cream that is legal where he's from. It's not legal here Then massages Yannick. Yannick apparently has psoriasis. It rubs into the wound and that's the way they think that it came up on a test. Okay, so simple enough, but imperfect, imperfect. I'm going to read you another text from someone I will not name who said no, this is about something completely different.

Speaker 1: 11:36

A question that I, along with others, initially had, and this is after reading the 33-page document Are we all still interested or is this completely boring? Yeah, exactly. Okay, I care, because I think facts matter more than feelings in this scenario, and I'm not going to tell you the way to feel. I'm going to tell you as much information and then judge away, but at least judge away knowing processes, et cetera, et cetera. A question that I had, along with others initially, was how did this not become public before now? March test we found out yesterday.

Speaker 1: 12:05

I was under the impression that once you test positive, you are notified. Uh, it is to be made public. That's false, which was my ignorance. It it only goes public once the final tribunal decision is handed down, which, in sinners case, was yesterday. So all this talk of sinister things and preferential treatment you're a number on a bottle. You're allowed to appeal during the appeal process until you're guilty. So innocence until proven guilty is something we hear a lot. It didn't come out until yesterday and then became a complete I see children firestorm. Thoughts on any of that?

Speaker 3: 12:49

Yeah, it's really tricky, right. I mean, calling someone a doper is like a plagiarist, if you're right. It's like the worst thing you can say about an athlete. Yes, so you really have to tread carefully. The flip side is we want rigorous anti-doping enforcement. We don't want people cheating, especially in a sport, a one-on-one sport. There are no teams, so inevitably you're going to have these complicated sets of circumstances.

Speaker 3: 13:13

It's a little weird to me that for the last five and a half months hey, yannick, how are you feeling? Oh, pretty good. You know, I went parasailing in my confidences. Meanwhile he knows that there's this potentially reputation-damaging doping case swirling around him, but I think sort of, given the balance of factors and given balance of interest, I'm not sure how else you handle this. It does seem as though his explanation is A plausible and B was accepted. To me, sort of the disclosure is a little strange. He also has very good counsel and I think one thing that we've seen in all this is that the top players I don't, I think it's a stretch to say they balance from some sort of that, they benefit from some favoritism, and that the, the ATP, is sort of turning a blind eye because he's this ascending star. I don't think that's the case. What I do think the advantage is is this is a guy who can afford six and seven figures worth of legal representation.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:07

I think that to me, you know, I'm not sure it's so different from society at large. I mean, I'm not sure that isn't anything.

Speaker 2: 14:13

His coach said as much this morning in an interview.

Speaker 3: 14:15

Yeah, I think that's sort of where some of the discrepancies come in, but it's a really tricky set of circumstances and if this test comes out I mean again, I don't know if you picked that up His trainer had a cut, His trainer's Italian. His trainer used some sort of ointment. It contained trace amounts of this and everyone's like okay, and the other thing is like well, he did the massages with no gloves.

Speaker 1: 14:39

I, for one, have never had a massage with gloves in my entire life. Right, raise your hand if you've had a massage with gloves rubber gloves before.

Speaker 2: 14:47

There's one, there's one Back there.

Speaker 4: 14:49

No, there's not one, he was lying and he got caught he put his hand down in shame.

Speaker 1: 14:53

So let's not act like that's a normal thing to have done. That would be a psychotic, sorry yeah, during a global pandemic there you go, your point stands. It would be normal if they had been following COVID protocols in March of this year with his team. So yes, but also this won't make the show. Did you get it with gloves? I got the mask, I got a massage where the person had glass and they're over, and it was really awkward.

Speaker 1: 15:34

I don't know that I had gloves, but I understand your point, point being people like he had a massage with no gloves. I'm like who has massages with gloves? That's not a normal, that's not actually a real thing.

Speaker 2: 15:48

What is his body work person or what is his medical staff person doing?

Speaker 1: 15:50

even with that. This is a problem, right? This is a problem. That's a fair question. This is a problem, so I'll tell you. So tennis has, uh, probably the largest list of banned substances, comparatively speaking to every other sport. Like, I can buy stuff that you've had, athlete's foot stuff that we can't use, sudafed. We can't use Anything in a CVS that you walk in and get for any cold 80% of it. We would probably test positive if we took it. So two things One, very stringent, something you have to think about. Two, not sure how the substance got anywhere near him, right, if there was any question about anything, it was like no aspirin, like and the tricky thing is like, aspirin on the list of banned substances is like it's like it's medical name, so it's. It has like three X's, a couple of cues and like 17 vowels Like that's what, what, what we're dealing with.

Speaker 2: 16:43

Wait, aspirin's on the list. Sorry, you said aspirin. No, it's not, but I'm saying the way it's listed on substances you can take.

Speaker 1: 16:49

Yeah, is chlorophyll.

Speaker 4: 16:51

It's more like boraphyll, I don't know it's a the five people who got that thought it was hilarious thank you um, but that's kind of where we're at.

Speaker 1: 16:59

So I think that I started the day going and we were always told and it was just kind of a general ethos we are responsible for what goes into our bodies. End of story. Okay, do we generally agree with that? Yes, everyone's saying yes. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3: 17:18

Yeah, I mean it's strict liability for the lawyers here. So if you test positive, sorry, we'll see you the next time.

Speaker 1: 17:26

But you should have to pay some sort of not financial penalty, but a penalty. Yes, A lot of yeses.

Speaker 4: 17:30

Okay, so about half the room?

Speaker 1: 17:32

yeses, something like that for those who can't see us. What's your take on that?

Speaker 3: 17:35

Yeah, no, and I think that's fair. I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 17:40

We can talk about. We're going to do it all. It's going to be great.

Speaker 3: 17:42

I mean, to me it's kind of fascinating on all sorts of levels. One of them is in sports, all sports. Nobody fails a drug test and say, oh, you got me, did the crime now tell me what I owe you.

Speaker 4: 17:52

Yeah, there is always an alibi.

Speaker 3: 17:55

Some of them are implausible. They're conjoined twins and ringworm. I mean, it's just, you can go through the list. The flip side is there are trace amounts of banned substances that turn up, and sometimes athletes genuinely have no idea. Other times they can show lists, as this was for some mislabeled jet lag medication. I think we all ought to be Otherwise known as coffee.

Speaker 3: 18:20

Well, we ought to be skeptical, but not too cynical, because there are cases when there's either a chain of custody problem or there is a genuine, or a case like this, where there's no fault assigned to the athlete. So I you know it's really tricky business. It's a little unfortunate that the number one player in the world has this. This is what everyone's talking. I mean, I pick up my phone in the morning and 72 hours ago it was is Sabalenka going to be the favorite? And now it's all about this case and all about this set of circumstances. But to your question yeah, in sports there's a strict liability standard. As long as it's on you, you tested positive game over. That's guilt.

Speaker 1: 19:02

Okay so.

Speaker 1: 19:04

We had a bunch of yeses no matter what sucks. Maybe I have some sympathy for what's happening, but generally you are responsible. Okay, I think I entered this today. I woke up and I think I was on your side. I think it was on the yes side. That sucks. I don't personally think.

Speaker 1: 19:23

Imagine if he was actually trying to dope and he had something that was, it's the worst doping job of all time. If he's doing it because he's getting no benefit, it's literally less than a grain grain of salt, like he's the best in the world at tennis and the worst at doping. If he was actually trying to do it, right, okay, so I start the day probably saying I don't think he intentionally tried to do anything, okay, and also I probably would have said that's probably worth three months, because you gotta have you hired your team and a lot of times the CEO is responsible for what happens on their team, right, like it goes upwards, and I'm seeing some nods here Now. Opinions are easy and they're hard to convert people off of their opinions, so I'm going to give you a real life story that I didn't know about until today. I'm literally texting with a player who is a current player, who I will not name, and they told a story of and this is someone that's highly respected, uh, in the game. Um, he basically uh, texted me and said um, you know, I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this and I'm sure you have to talk about it in the episode. And you know I said I want to do that, like I want someone to kick me in the head, um, but we have to right. Uh.

Speaker 1: 20:45

So he told me a story. He goes well, I actually got one of the emails one time of you are under investigation because a sample came back from X tournament. And he's going oh, I haven't done literally nothing. I haven't done literally nothing, zero. So those against the zero fault, zero negligence policy, which is what they're running off of, why some people get off and some people don't alibis circumstantial eventually goes to a tribunal, not dissimilar than a jury right In any other case. Okay, so he has to write out. He has five days. Was it five days, mike? It was five days. Is there anything? Uh, get in, he, he has. We actually have the letter, the actual letter from the doping agency that was sent to said person.

Speaker 2: 21:35

I mean the letterheads ATP, itf, wta, AO, roland Garros. So it's it's. You know, the letterhead is hey, we are the ones in charge of tennis. Yeah, by the way, we're putting it on notice and you're screwy magooed right now. And you now have five days to give us a detailed written explanation for how you violated all of these different clauses. I think there's like 12 of them heading into an event.

Speaker 1: 22:01

He goes, literally my soul dropped down through my socks and my shoes. You know that cold feeling you get when news comes and it's not great. He goes. I feel that all over and also I have no idea, like I don't know he goes. So I write through my truths from that time period as well as I can. And this was a story I never heard about, and tennis is a small world and you kind of hear about stuff a lot. Some of it's true, some of it's not. You know, time tells and five years later you're proven right or wrong, I don't know. So he goes through. We didn't leave the hotel, only ate at the hotel treatment. So he goes. All I could do is just write my truths. Didn't make up anything, didn't do anything else. So then we have a copy that mike's looking at uh, right now. Uh, end of the investigation. So all of the uh, zero space. Right, you're, you're responsible for what's in your body.

Speaker 4: 23:00

Yes, remember we were I was one of you this morning um. I was one of you this morning.

Speaker 1: 23:08

I was one of you this morning 40 players. There was a contaminated substance in the spaghetti bolognese at the hotel that week. So if it's zero tolerance you are. You quite literally are what you eat. We would have lost like 20% of the top 300 players by virtue of this challenger, through no fault of their own. That story seems rough to me. So think what you want, suspect what you want. Also, put yourself in the shoes of anyone who gets terrible reputational news. I would just say allow for grace to have the story come out. Yannick, I tried to get him here today, obviously he wasn't going to.

Speaker 2: 24:02

What's the temperature like?

Speaker 1: 24:03

His press conference is Friday and, as far as I understand it, he's going to talk about it once and try to get on with his life.

Speaker 2: 24:08

So what's the odds that I mean this was a long time coming right. This process was long. What's the odds that no one else on the tour? He had not confided in anyone else, because obviously other people have had problems just like this?

Speaker 3: 24:26

I mean, what's it like in the locker room? Whatever you say about their massage techniques, this team keeps it locked pretty tight because this tennis world gets very small, very quickly and nobody not a whisper nothing.

Speaker 2: 24:38

That's to go very isolated.

Speaker 3: 24:39

He pulled out of the Olympics with tuberculosis. I mean it just nobody said anything before 24 hours ago.

Speaker 1: 24:48

Yeah, um, so I listen, the the judgment becomes intent. They ruled there was zero intent. I tend to think like I don't know why you would risk everything on something that they said actually enhanced his performance at that level zero clean tests up until that date. Uh, he tested. They said he tested positive twice. Little deceiving. You get tested at each tournament. He could have played indian wells lost. They've been tested against second round of miami. Those are the last two tests. It was eight days apart. Eight days apart.

Speaker 1: 25:23

So it's not as if he tested positive in nove and then tested positive, you know, the next April, which is kind of intentional continuity. So, listen, I don't know what, I don't know. I can't for the life of me think that he would do it. He would dope that badly to risk everything, because this is the shittiest doping effort that I've ever seen in my life, if that's actually what it is. But I'm not mad at people who say like, listen, I'm not mad at people who say it's in your body, you're responsible for it, maybe it's a three-month suspension. I'm not mad at you.

Speaker 1: 25:56

After the story that I just shared from a challenger in Mexico, where there would have been 40 guys popped through no fault of their own. I probably have a little more time for a case-by-case basis. I think what this proves and I think that we have continually proven as a general society recently is that nuance we're not really great at nuance at scale right, we're good at headlines, and then we're good at reacting off of headlines. This stinks because instead of breaking down players, we've now wasted 25 minutes of your time explaining the process of peeing in a cup. But that's where I'm at. I don't know if that's much of an opinion, I just have grace.

Speaker 1: 26:41

I also don't like the argument of well, he's a good guy, it's balls and strikes. Right the fact, the fact pattern is this possible, you know? Will we find out? I think it's negligence by members of his team. I think it's a gross mistake. I don't know how you can have anything like that near someone without having checked it out. The other thing not to throw. Well, no, I'm going to Throw his trainer completely under the bus. He was in the Italian basketball leagues before he took the job with Yannick. Someone got suspended for a year in that league because their wife was using this spray and it got onto them.

Speaker 3: 27:18

With that substance.

Speaker 1: 27:19

With the exact substance. So if you're in orbit and know that that happened and it's an easily detectable substance, and yet you still have it on your finger listen, I don't, I don't know what that situation is. Uh, maybe Yannick is more forgiving than I would have been Headed to the U S open this year. Be sure to ace the U S open with chase. As proud sponsor of the U S open, chase helps tennis fans make the most of their grand slam tournament experience with exclusive benefits. We'll be right back Head to Chasecom slash US Open for more info.

Speaker 2: 27:59

Do you want to talk about something you really like, which is umpires? Oh.

Speaker 3: 28:03

I was going to say when you guys signed up for this and we appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 28:08

It's like a little bit of news happened or something.

Speaker 1: 28:11

I had this idea of this show. I'm like, oh yes, US Open preview, fun topics, party time, live audience, Wah, wah.

Speaker 1: 28:20

This still has to go out to other people who view it and I don't know that I could have gotten away with doing this show and not actually providing some context for the biggest news story in tennis. So thank you for sitting through that. Hopefully you learned something. I'm not in the business of changing minds. I'm in the business of providing facts and letting your minds go where they want. I would just say have some grace. Imagine if it was your worst day ever, through no fault of your own, unless we just want to call him a liar, which I'm not ready to do at this point. So, anyways, should we do?

Speaker 3: 28:57

more fun stuff. How about non-, about non pee in the cup division? Let's pivot. All right, we're done. We're done with all that.

Speaker 1: 29:03

Uh, another thing that we haven't talked about, cause, so, like I, I went away for like days, uh, with my wife, and the tennis world just went nuts Like I can't, I can't malfunctioned.

Speaker 1: 29:14

malfunction Like refs are making the wrong calls. Everyone's up in arms this instant. Okay, so can you imagine being at your job right, whatever it is maybe it's maybe, or dealing with kids, or whatever and then having the ability to get the answer right, knowing the information, having that information affect someone's livelihood and not using it? Can you imagine that? Or is this just the crazy dumb tennis world that we live in, where we actually have replay, we have access to it and, because some committee hasn't met or have made dumb decisions, all of a sudden OJ Aliassime loses to Jack Draper because Jack Draper sends one into the ground before it goes?

Speaker 3: 30:00

over the net.

Speaker 1: 30:02

We know what Andy's talking about, right Do you know what happened here last week and then. So over the last couple weeks, taylor Fritz got screwed on a call, was it Francis? Francis got screwed on a call, and so we have this replay. But if you play three or four balls past it and then the point ends they're like no, you can't ask for it. Then We'd rather just run the chance of getting it wrong. We have to stop shooting ourselves in the foot with dumb stuff.

Speaker 2: 30:28

By a round of applause. Who's in favor of replay, Right? Okay, there we go. We've solved the problem.

Speaker 1: 30:34

Is anyone not? Yeah, yeah, who's not? You guys were also in support of zero tolerance. We figured out the law and order crowd. So I'm getting this grief on Twitter because I didn't respond in the first 24 hours to the center thing and someone's going oh well, you were chirping about the rules right away because that's the same and I'm like okay, you want the?

Speaker 1: 31:00

I take pride in a couple of things. One is being able to write a show. Okay, so you want the Jack Draper 47 second show, and why we didn't talk about it, or why I can, that's worth a tweet and nothing more. Yeah, okay, how fun is it when everyone agrees on everything within 20 seconds of a conversation? Okay, the Jack Draper, show you ready. How fun is it when everyone agrees on everything within 20 seconds of a conversation? Okay, the Jack Draper, show you ready.

Speaker 1: 31:23

Jack Draper comes in. He hits a grounds volley straight into the ground. Never once will you hit a volley cleanly that goes 12 feet straight up in the air. Doesn't happen, obviously. Grounds it into the ground, goes off, the frame, goes over OJL. You see him going what? And we're all like what. And then the commentator's like what we should use replay. Jack Draper could have replayed the point. He didn't. He didn't cheat, he didn't break any rules. He would have gotten props for years had he replayed it. He didn't. We should use replay. Great show guys. It's over. We wouldn't have made our mid-roll.

Speaker 1: 32:03

Yes, eric Buderak, star of this week's episode of Served Podcast. We have the AR here If that happens on our app.

Speaker 2: 32:12

We have the technology. Look at this guy Look at this guy, eric Buderak, from the wings. Eric Buderak.

Speaker 1: 32:19

Eric Buderak from the wings. Eric Buderak Breaking news. That will not be a problem at the US Open because apparently they don't have their heads up their buttholes. We actually had it last year, but of all the matches that happened, there was not really an incident that ever made it to air. There was one or two doubles players reaching over the net situations, but there was never a jet paper, but we were armed and ready last year.

Speaker 2: 32:41

Good.

Speaker 1: 32:41

Common sense prevails. If you have the answer, use the answer. If you have the information, use the information. Let's not take away paychecks from people who might not otherwise have to give up that paycheck. So round of applause for Common Sense.

Speaker 2: 32:56

We didn't plant him, by the way, that was great Good to was great Look at this. Good to see you Look at this.

Speaker 1: 33:01

Look at this. He's everywhere, everywhere at the US Open. If you have not listened to our episode which dropped yesterday. Eric runs Player Services has a long, storied career, won 18 times and doubles on tour. Started off at a Division III school, then played money tournaments in Europe for ham sandwiches eventually is an executive at the US. Open and is now apparently in charge of the Common Sense Olympics.

Speaker 2: 33:26

Way to go, and he breaks international laws, which is my favorite part about him Do what. He breaks international laws.

Speaker 1: 33:31

Oh yeah, and you snuck across a border. One time he will bribe you. That's on this week's episode.

Speaker 2: 33:38

He won't admit felonies in front of you but we have it on tape, it's on the record so go back and listen to that.

Speaker 1: 33:43

Thank you for that update. Let's talk some tennis. Mr Eric Budak, should we just get to the US Open now?

Speaker 3: 33:46

Please. Now we're done with all the housekeeping, please.

Speaker 1: 33:52

Now we've warmed them up, or read John Worthen's column 15 Parting Thoughts SIML Bag. For my money it's the best Read in tennis has been, even before. I had to say it because I sit next to him and do shows with him every week. But I always like to ask you what are the storylines that you are most into going into the US Open this year?

Speaker 3: 34:17

We are going to get some sort of resolution on how important momentum is in tennis, because a few players have it and a lot don't, and to me it's going to be really intriguing to see we can go through the list right. I mean, carlos Alcaraz won the French Open, he won Wimbledon. He's now trying to win the US Open. That is something that Roger Federer never did. That's something Novak Djokovic never did Winning all three events back to back to back.

Speaker 4: 34:41

Remember that guy who didn't do it, Federer.

Speaker 3: 34:42

Swiss guy yeah, exactly, add it to the list.

Speaker 3: 34:47

So Carlos Acara is trying to become the first player to win all three. I mean, that's just an incredible achievement, right? It's not just three different surfaces, but it's best of five tennis. Think of all that can go wrong. It's crossing oceans. However, he comes in on a two-match losing streak. We all know what happened at the Olympics. We can talk about that later. To me, that was one of the more remarkable tennis matches I've ever seen. Novak beats Carlos Alcaraz. He goes to Cincinnati and then promptly loses to another 37-year-old. So maybe the model of the story is just don't pit young Carlos Alcaraz against 37-year-olds. But you know, carlos Alcaraz in theory guys won the previous two majors, ought to be a favorite, won this event two years ago, but two-match losing streak.

Speaker 1: 35:29

Well, okay, so let's yeah. Do you guys remember way back when, before the French Open happened, when Carlos Alcaraz had played exactly one event on clay and we were all worried about it? How'd that go? Pretty good, pretty good for him. Do you guys remember after Roland Garros this year, when he lost to the aforementioned Jack Draper at Queens Club.

Speaker 1: 35:54

So he only had one win on grass going into Wimbledon. How'd that work out for him? All right, not worried about him Next, no, no. But honestly, he only had one win on grass going into Wimbledon. How'd that work out for him? All right, not worried about him Next, yeah, no no, but honestly, that's my point, right?

Speaker 3: 36:05

So he has very little momentum going into Roland Garros. And oh, have we overhyped this kid? Oh wait, he's really good and he wins Roland Garros.

Speaker 1: 36:12

Yeah, he's like for context right, Just so we like I don't want, I just feel the need to say this every time that we talk about Carlos Alcaraz. So let's get rid of the big three who just put up video game numbers. Let's roll it back one generation. So Carlos Alcaraz currently has four Grand Slams Names like Edberg Becker, six McEnroe, seven, Agassi, eight. That's the company he's quickly going towards, Like the absolute icons of our sport, Sir Andy Murray. Eight. Like that's the company he's quickly going towards, Like the absolute icons of our sport, Sir Andy Murray. Three Carlos Alcaraz currently has four. Let's not wait until we want people not to retire to really start digging in and appreciating everything they're about. This kid is dynamite. He's my favorite player to watch. He's great for the game. He's smiling every time. He's not fresh off the Olympics at Cincinnati, breaking stuff.

Speaker 3: 37:05

There's a defending champion who has won only one tournament this year and he's 37 years old. However, he's won 24 majors and just came good at the Olympics. So I think it's going to be really interesting to see. Novak did not play these two events in Canada and Cincinnati, which traditionally are warm-ups, but he's at a point in his career where and he's very open about this at this point it's about the big events. So how's Novak going to do?

Speaker 3: 37:32

He hadn't had a great first six months of the year but then suddenly injures his knee. That may have been who knows, that may have been the secret to his year. He's been a better player post meniscus injury than he has in the six months prior. But he comes in as a defending champ, as the guy who won gold, beat Alcaraz and, one way to look at it, he hasn't had a lot of match preparation. The flip side is great. He's rested, hasn't played in a month. Um, I think sounds crazy. I mean, I would say, 35 years old used to be the eligibility mark for senior tennis tour, so novak djokovic is, you know, two and a half years into senior tennis eligibility, and he may well be I think I think he would do well on the senior tour.

Speaker 1: 38:14

I think he'd win a lot. Yeah, I think he would win. I think he'd win. I think he would win a lot he let the ball kids handle the racket.

Speaker 1: 38:21

One of the other things that we need to mention. So the early feedback is that the courts are playing pretty quick this year. They're fast in Cincinnati. You normally get a read it's rare that it's super fast in Cincinnati and you come here and it's a complete shock of a slow court. Eric Buderak, can you? No, can you no, he's gone. Okay, good, um, can't confirm uh court speed, but the general feedback is that it's a fast court. Uh, alcaraz obviously has played very well on fast courts.

Speaker 1: 38:42

Novak, if he can get the ball to go through the court, it's just really hard to attack him because he hits it so deep through the court right, he keeps you at bay. It's tough to attack off of a ball that comes low and flat through the back of the court, especially when you have the court coverage of a novak jokovic I will say, just based on what's on Twitter, I think he went out more times after the Olympics than he's ever been out in the last 20 years, by the way, and well-deserved His Olympic match, I think, something that gets used too often. Like we like to deal in cliches, they step up when it matters. And I'm going well, if we could choose, we would just play well all the time Wild and it matters and I'm going well. If we could choose, we would just play well all the time, willed his way to victory, I'm like, but also played great. I think Novak absolutely willed himself to that Olympics win. I think it's impossible to say and listen the greats, the greats for these types of reasons.

Speaker 1: 39:36

But John has had access to Novak over the last couple of years, did 60 minutes and then did an article for sports, illustrated where novak was on the cover earlier this year and, uh, without hesitation, said circle one tournament, I want to win the olympic gold. This is, this is my major uh. I honestly believe if he had to choose one tournament to win this year, it would have been that. That. That's Babe Ruth. That's calling your shot and then hitting the homer, like that is. I think he willed himself to that win at 37 years old, not dropping a set on your least favorite service and beating the current best player in the world for the summer, carlos Alcaraz Lights out. It's just a matter of if you can get up again after using that emotional energy. At this point, novak is chasing ghosts. There's not a record that he doesn't really have, maybe total tour titles, but beyond that, as far as like a paper resume goes, he's chasing ghosts.

Speaker 3: 40:31

Which is relevant right. First of all, we haven't had I mean name me another athlete where they haven't had any sort of concrete. They've had to create their own goals and their own motivation because, they've, they've, that's about it.

Speaker 1: 40:41

Yeah, michael phelps, after like two olympics exactly, um, so uh, and then let's, let's, let's get into, obviously, uh, center, like how do we? We, we've gone through the whole thing, his, his, like, whereas novak, I almost think if the situation was reversed, he would like lean into this friction, right, he wants that, he's combative, he wants to get into it with the card, he wants a reason to kind of motivate, he draws energy, you know, kind of from that place. We're about to see like a different type, different side of center and what he actually has to deal with there's going to be. Can you imagine someone in that stadium actually mentioning it out loud? I think that'll happen over the course of the next two weeks in new york.

Speaker 3: 41:19

Put it behind you no, I mean, that's whether whether he's a nice guy or not, or whether he's a measured guy or not. That is obviously completely irrelevant to the fact pattern. Yeah, but it's really relevant to the tennis. I mean, how will this guy, who is really sort of shies away from controversy and he's very much like in in my bubble I mean he's he's very professional and buttoned up how will he respond to suddenly being this lightning rod for controversy? He's not immune to other players or on social media. I'm sure he's going to be asked about it in press conferences.

Speaker 1: 41:54

We can imagine what Novak would do in this position. He would lean into it and everyone would be in trouble. Exactly.

Speaker 3: 41:59

We have no idea how this I certainly don't In no uncertain terms, right.

Speaker 1: 42:03

And then I mean, listen, another story. Like we get so cured away with the headlines, you guys remember a guy named Daniil Medvedev oh, by the way, one of the best hardcore players for the last five years, former champion here beat a guy named Novak Djokovic in straight sets he's lost a couple of. He's lost like three hardcore matches in a row, which you don't say about him ever Zverev. And the weird thing about an Olympic summer is that your schedule gets forced right. You're not deciding oh, I'm going to get at least three tournaments in before the open on hard, I'm going to play one, take a week off, play the two 1000s and then come in. You're going from grass to clay a week later and then straight to hard courts where you have to play a tournament match two days later. And someone who relies on rhythm, relies on long rallies, didn't get those reps.

Speaker 1: 42:54

Medvedev, I don't think this Olympic summer has been great for his scheduling. He's normally someone that you put in the middle of those conversations on a hard court, maybe not on grass, definitely not on clay, but on a hard. He deserves to be in that conversation, not in that conversation as it currently stands, and I also don't think it's coincidence that the two people, sabalenka and Sinner, who both won in Cincinnati, which is the biggest lead-up it's the biggest tell A lot of the favorites. Guess, who won Cincinnati last year. Novak. Guess, who won the Open last year, novak Okay, that happens a lot. That happens a lot of the time.

Speaker 3: 43:32

Yeah, Coco too, yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:32

Yeah, that happens a lot of the time. I don't think it's coincidental that Sabalenka and Sinner, both people who won the biggest lead-up tournament, didn't play in the Olympics.

Speaker 3: 43:42

And Francis, who reached the final as well.

Speaker 1: 43:48

Francis found something. This segues nicely into kind of we want to cover Americans because we're in America. Last year, obviously, ben Sheldon makes semis, had like an okay summer, skipped the Olympics played fine. Is winning matches every week. Taylor Fritz, you know fast courts ball striker, took a loss to Nakashima. Did not play great in Canada. Is finding trying to find something. Tommy Paul same off of the Olympics. They win bronze. They grind to get that bronze medal in doubles with which they don't play that often, and all of a sudden they're trying to find form going into the US Open. Seb Korda doesn't play and finds something. Wins the 500 in Washington. Makes the semis in Canada. Might be the most in-form American and maybe the least talked about coming into this tournament. So keep an eye on Seb Korda for my money.

Speaker 3: 44:44

You had one American to predict, you know, the last few years. Right Francis reached the semifinals last year, two years ago I mean two years ago, and had that great match against Carlos Alcaraz. Yes, last year Shelton was sort of the revelation who is your pick, one American, to be here, say, two weeks from today?

Speaker 1: 45:02

I hate it. I hate it. I hate doing this when I don't have a draw. I think the player that's most informed like I'm obviously not going to pick Korda if he has to play Alcaraz in the round of 16, right and someone else has an opening in the draw. But I think Korda's playing the best. He's the most informed coming in with any of the Americans and if it's a fast court, has that flat ball flight returns well, will get a little love on a serve getting through the court a little bit quicker, surface having the hot hand. I like Korda going in, but I almost refuse to make predictions without a draw. We should also point out.

Speaker 3: 45:48

I just saw this. I'm going to botch this. You can see the copious notes we bring with us to these podcasts. I think this is the first time since 1996 that you've had at least five Americans seated, both male and female. Did I get that right? Yeah, all right. So a lot of Americans to root for, yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:10

And also I have someone underlined as American on my sleeper list is watch out for Brandon Nakashima. Canada beat. The number one American at that time was Tommy Paul. Those rankings flipped the next week so he beat the number one American who were two different people back-to-back weeks in the Masters 1000 coming in Tommy Paul in Canada, taylor Fritz in Cincinnati I think he lost to Rublev both weeks. So watch out for him. And then the other sleeper you know who I'm going to say.

Speaker 3: 46:39

Not American? Was there a guest at our last podcast?

Speaker 1: 46:41

Yeah, super good looking guy Like unbelievably good looking. It was intimidating Baratini. They're like yeah, he's good looking.

Speaker 2: 46:53

It's shocking.

Speaker 1: 46:54

I heard like five women, boys go, oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 46:58

One of them was social. Sophie.

Speaker 1: 47:00

Can't get enough. Okay, I think 40 in the World won a couple titles. Obviously plays great on fast surfaces. Watch out for him. Not sure the draw comes out. I won't pick him to make the second week because he could play Alcaraz first round and I wouldn't choose him straight up against Carlos Alcaraz, but one to watch. Anyways, we'll do a quick ladies rundown real quick and then we're going to get to some Q&A where you can ask John Wertheim anything that you've ever wondered about him?

Speaker 3: 47:26

Absolutely anything. Why am I so overdressed? I can tell you let's keep going with the women, yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:32

Why are you so overdressed? What's going?

Speaker 2: 47:34

on. I think he looks good.

Speaker 3: 47:36

Novak Djokovic will be featured on 60 Minutes Sunday night. I'll have you know, so I had to freshen up. I had to talk about his Olympics, so I'm coming right from a studio. Otherwise I'd be dressed like you guys. Forgive me, let's talk about the women, what he means is.

Speaker 1: 47:51

You all are dressed great.

Speaker 3: 47:53

Appropriately Exactly, it's a sporting event. He said it wrong, but that was what he meant. It's a sporting event.

Speaker 1: 48:00

He said it wrong, but that was what he meant.

Speaker 1: 48:02

I think there's a clear favorite on the women's side, cincinnati winner, and I don't often say that I think Sabalenka is the clear favorite. I picked her on our. So the way we do our draw shows, so the draw will come out tomorrow. That's right. I'm flying home from here. I have to do something here in the morning. Fly home, we'll get straight into the home studio and these two look at the draws and I do our draw show, where I'm seeing the draw for the first time live on air and so you're seeing matchups, and so imagine we had this moment where they know that Zverev plays Nadal first round at Roland Garros and I don't, and so I see it and have this massive reaction and probably say some stuff that I won't say now. But that's the way we do our draw shows, so we're doing that tomorrow. But I chose it came out on a Thursday. I chose Sabalenka to win Wimbledon and then she pulled out the next day.

Speaker 2: 48:57

So maybe you shouldn't. So that sucks, but I'm doubling down.

Speaker 1: 49:00

I think she is the clear favorite on the women's side. John Wertheim, do you think differently, or are we in?

Speaker 3: 49:08

agreement. I wish we argued more. We need to argue more. But at this point I think you sort of look at what she does on a fast court, you look at what she did in Cincinnati and, again in keeping with our theme, you look at who would you pick over her? That, to me, is sort of the issue. That's the question. Anybody who would you pick over her Coco?

Speaker 1: 49:29

Coco, coco, coco, coco, coco. Okay, okay, why, right now, would you pick Coco over her? She has won here before. She does have a crowd behind her and she has not played well this summer. I love Coco. She's one of my favorite people searching for something. Expectations are fine when you're full of confidence. They become tougher when you're not. So I hope you're right. Coco is my favorite. I hope you're right and also, uh, I'm happy to bet 20 with you, it'll be fine. The coaches have to keep her calm.

Speaker 1: 50:06

Yeah, you've obviously never been around.

Speaker 3: 50:07

I was going to say you guys got the wrong uh wrong coaches. For that. I hope you're right.

Speaker 1: 50:11

Cause last year was electric. Uh, I think we all. We all love Coco. Um, I don't think she would be in my top three or four right now for this tournament.

Speaker 1: 50:21

Jessie Pagula has played unbelievably well the last couple weeks, winning in Canada and then following up. It's not easy to win both or make finals in Canada in Cincinnati, back-to-back weeks. She's gotten exactly what she needed out of this summer lead-up. I do think there's a little bit of a thing she's never been past the quarters of a Grand Slam. I do think there's a little bit of a thing she's never been past the quarters of a Grand Slam. That is a question that she will hear about a lot if she wants to make it past the quarters of a Slam. So we will see how that plays out. Iga Sviatek is always in the conversation. She is the best player in the world. It's just a matter of is she the best fast court player in the world? I think that is still up for debate. She's the most dominant player on clay, One of the most dominant players ever on clay, but I do think Sabalenka's game translates better to fast court surfaces. I just want to say Paolini.

Speaker 3: 51:13

I want to say the name. Finally, the summer of Paol.

Speaker 2: 51:16

We just get roasted on the internet over the pronunciation.

Speaker 1: 51:19

Third straight major final and winning a gold in doubles at the Olympics.

Speaker 1: 51:25

So she's great. Mira Andreeva, she's a name that will win a slam. I don't know if it's going to be the next two weeks, but it wouldn't stun me if she made a run to the finals. One thing that's not being talked about at all the most informed player on hard this spring on the women's side was anyone Bueller, daniel Collins. Daniel Collins Wins. Miami plays great. She's still saying she's done. This is her last Grand Slam. This is her last Grand Slam. This is a service she loves. So that can go either way. Right, when you haven't dealt with something before. I retired at this tournament Not an easy thing.

Speaker 1: 52:08

I wouldn't be surprised if emotions got a hold of her and you all of a sudden think back over your entire life and think I don't get to do this again on this stage. She's going to play out the rest of the year or it's like let's let her rip. Tater Chip, we're here, let's let it go. She has been in form. I love that story, especially if she starts progressing quarter semis finals, which I think is a realistic scenario.

Speaker 1: 52:31

Amanda Anisimova Sleeper no one wants to see her first round Ranked 49 in the world currently Was ranked outside of the top 100, like 10 days ago. Ball Striker has made the semis of a Grand Slam before Took some time away to deal with some mental anxiety things. Props to her. She's back playing well again. Listen, if your ankle hurts and you treat it, no one says anything. If your brain hurts, I think you should treat it too. So props to her for getting that. We're happy to see her back. I think she is on the short list of people that no one wants to see. Watch Taylor Townsend career high 47 in the world.

Speaker 4: 53:12

She is just kind of awesome. Just watch her play. She's so fun If she doesn't play a seat.

Speaker 1: 53:15

I don't think she'll be on stadium court. If you have tickets Monday, tuesday and you want to be entertained, you want to see a variety of games, you want to see one of the most magnetic smiles in the entire game, go watch Taylor Townsend. She is awesome. Cindy Akava, fresh off of gold medal with her boyfriend or ex-boyfriend, we don't know.

Speaker 2: 53:31

We don't know.

Speaker 1: 53:32

We thought they were broken up and then they made out when they won the gold. But I guess you would do that, right? I was going to say you'd do that with anyone, right? Yeah, it's like we've done it before. It's fine, elise.

Speaker 3: 53:44

Mertens, 34 in the world a veteran.

Speaker 1: 53:45

You also don't want to see her first round. What did I miss?

Speaker 3: 53:50

No notes, so I don't know if this is true, but we'll say it is. I'll give you a name of someone who I don't has won a single match ever in her career at the US Open Emma Navarro.

Speaker 1: 54:00

Young American. She's played it like twice or three times. No, I'm not saying she's had this? I think she's played it twice.

Speaker 3: 54:05

I don't think she's ever won a match here, but she's so put together and we talk about tennis players and you can see a big serve and you can see someone you know Paolini's great footwork and around the court, oh no, oh party foul, did I have that napkin?

Speaker 2: 54:21

So for those that just heard it?

Speaker 1: 54:23

I just popped an lollipop and it fell on my shorts, and so when I stand up it's going to look like I peed my pants.

Speaker 2: 54:31

Producer Sean shook that one up for you, strawberry vanilla for the record.

Speaker 1: 54:35

That's all right, you've all done it.

Speaker 2: 54:38

Do you remember the scene in Billy?

Speaker 1: 54:39

Madison, do you remember that you ain't cool?

Speaker 2: 54:44

Unless you pee your pants.

Speaker 1: 54:46

Anyways, a lot of pee jokes. Sorry to interrupt with my spill. Go ahead. But Olipop's great, everyone should have one.

Speaker 3: 54:51

Pee joke to Emma Navarro. Segue Keep an eye on Emma Navarro. No, I don't. I mean, this is what's so fun about this tournament, right? I mean, think back to three years ago with Emma Raducani. That's like Isner's match. We're never going to see anything like that again. Someone comes from the qualifying draw to win the title. I don't know if we'll ever see that again, but whoever would have thought Barbara Krujicova would be your Wimbledon champion? We sit here and we make predictions and we look silly but everyone does because what you realize very quickly is we are leaving this era. When Serena played, it was really easy.

Speaker 3: 55:22

And when we had the big three at full peak, at full form, it was really easy. And now you just sort of throw up your hands and there's some players who you'd like to keep an eye on. I like Emma Navarro, andy likes several, I mean, but who knows? I mean they're literally on the women's side. What would you say? Madison Keyes, exactly, madison Keyes is great, great pick.

Speaker 1: 55:43

She's in every tournament. But the point is, we did the Wimbledon preview show and we said I think there are 35 people that could win this tournament. Now maybe it's less on this surface but, point being, it's kind of open. It's not like when Serena was winning and basically the question was Serena versus the field, who are you taking? And that was the realistic conversation Outside of Iga at the French Open, which I would take Iga versus the field. I think it's open, but I do feel like Sabalenka is the favorite and I think then you're kind, then you're kind of tearing into into different areas.

Speaker 1: 56:21

We will do the full draw show where we break down. We'll have a better grasp. Anyone who does like. I hate like when I read these predictions of who's going to make final and who's going to make semis on a Tuesday before the draws out from any analyst. They're lying to you, they're guessing and we, we all guess, but at least we should be informed when we make those guesses. Do not listen to any predictions that happen before the draw is out is my advice for tennis fans, because all they're trying to do is kill 10 minutes on a segment, like we just did.

Speaker 2: 56:49

Yay us and the draw show will be out T2 Friday night and it'll be out on our channels Saturday morning.

Speaker 1: 56:57

So our show will be out yeah, T2 Friday night, and then check it out on YouTube audio you guys ready to do some Q&A Spotify?

Speaker 2: 57:03

Should we do some Q&A Social? Sophie, back there is going to walk around. Just raise your hand if you have a question and Social Sophie will bring you the mic. You want to start with the one near you. Three or four of them.

Speaker 4: 57:18

That is a sweet stache.

Speaker 2: 57:19

That is awesome.

Speaker 1: 57:20

That's a Comey situation right.

Speaker 4: 57:21

Can you guys cut the audio a little bit.

Speaker 1: 57:23

Yeah, that takes maintenance. This guy has a beautiful mustache, fantastic, yeah, all right.

Speaker 3: 57:30

can you guys hear me? Yeah, If you're facing Carlos Alcaraz in the first round, what?

Speaker 1: 57:32

are the keys to the match.

Speaker 3: 57:33

Well, if you're facing Carlos Alcaraz in the first round, what are the keys to the match?

Speaker 1: 57:38

Well, if you're facing Carlos Alcaraz, what are the keys to the match? Prayer, your relationships, well, yeah, listen. So I actually think if you're going to play someone like an Alcaraz or any great player, I think it's in your I don't know, you're not seated, so you're not, you know, most likely not top 50 in the world. I think it's better to play in first round than it is third round when they have a couple of matches underneath them. I think what the great players force you to do and I kind of lived my career having to make these choices, none of which were a good one is they make you up your risk profile over and, over and over again. If I'm playing someone 20 in the world, I can hold, serve, put balls in play. I'm going to get some errors At 30 all. There's going to be a pressure situation where I've been there more than they have. So therefore, you know, I can kind of rely on the tension of the moment and serve my way through it. I can't do that against Roger, right? I can't do that against Rafa. I have to up my risk profile Against Roger. I have to come in on shots that I wouldn't normally come in on, because a neutral rally means I'm losing it, you know, 47% of the time, which manifests in having a 3-21 record, lifetime right. So you have to up your risk profile. And the thing that drives me crazy is when I'm watching these matches and listening to commentary. They'll say, oh, they're missing their backhand tonight. They're missing it over and over and over. What a dummy and I'm going. What's the other option? Staying in long, extended rallies with Alcaraz? It's basically like the lesser of evils.

Speaker 1: 59:11

So what you have to do if I'm coaching someone who's 50, I'm not going to lie to my player and say you, I'm not going to lie to my player and say you're better than Alcaraz. What I will say is you only have to be better than him for three hours. That's it. You don't have to have a better career than him. And to do that, you're going to have to go big on second serves. You're going to have to run traffic through the forehand side to gain access to the backhand side. If you just play to the backhand side, he will run around and we've seen how that ends. You have to make the decision between covering the full one, which will blow your head off, or the soft one when he drops the racket. So I would basically have to play uber aggressively to have any chance, hope that you can sneak it for a set, and then all of a sudden it becomes a battle of nerves and what ifs.

Speaker 1: 59:54

But the greats consistently make you overplay right, and oftentimes in the way that you're not comfortable playing right. Novak, are you going to stay in extended rallies with him, even if it's what you like to do? Nope, you got to risk it line a lot more often. You have to go bigger on second serves because oftentimes that's your best chance to win the point right. The goal is to win the point, so you're gonna have to do uncomfortable things to win the point right. The goal is to win the point, so you're going to have to do uncomfortable things to win the point. Come in at weird times. Make sure if they know what's coming. Like if you gave the best hitters in baseball if they knew what pitch was coming, it would be painful. You have to mix it up on these guys and you're literally on a razor's edge of risk the entire time, and that's their special sauce.

Speaker 2: 1:00:39

Who else you want to?

Speaker 1: 1:00:43

go in the back there, give it up for Social Sophie.

Speaker 2: 1:00:46

Way to go. Yeah, social Sophie, can you stand up?

Speaker 4: 1:00:50

Oh, yeah, sure, Thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:00:52

Andy, how important was Davis Cup to your career and what was your favorite off-court moment memory at Davis Cup?

Speaker 1: 1:00:58

Oh, at Davis Cup.

Speaker 2: 1:01:00

PG, please.

Speaker 1: 1:01:00

For the kid. Yeah, the children Davis Cup was massively important to me as someone who didn't participate in college. Tennis wasn't really a part of any sort of team. I loved that atmosphere. It created some of the best relationships of my life. I could not see Bob and Mike Bryan for a year, and if I see them on the walk back over to the stadium, uh, we would just fall into a conversation instantly Like no time had passed. Same with James, same with Marty Robbie, et cetera, et cetera. Um, we won in Portland in in 2007. Um, uh, and I vomited in a staircase that night Next.

Speaker 2: 1:01:47

So who you got next? A few people up here in the front.

Speaker 3: 1:01:51

It was bad pasta bolognese.

Speaker 2: 1:01:54

Yeah right.

Speaker 1: 1:01:55

It was contaminated. It was a contaminated bolognese. It had some picograms in it, yep.

Speaker 5: 1:01:59

I just want to get back before you're talking about the American men.

Speaker 1: 1:02:02

Yep.

Speaker 5: 1:02:03

Years ago, america was the best in tennis, but when I look at this cup, the last American man to win, it was 2003. What's going on with the training? We're developing very good players, but not great players. How come?

Speaker 1: 1:02:19

Well, we have to specify. The women have never stopped winning, by the way, from the States, right, we have a lot of them. But specifically on the men's side, it's cyclical and I know that's, and everyone wants like a quick answer. I think, on a macro level, the most obvious solution to that question is that, as, uh, tennis has gained popularity everywhere else. I think it went from being the second most popular sport in the 80s to the fourth to the seventh, as everywhere else it's gone to one or just behind soccer. Um, I also think there's a. There's a real, you know, people like we're the biggest country, we had the most, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:03:09

I think training at scale is really hard. It's not as simple Like you go to France and it's like, okay, we all go to Paris and we're most likely two hours away from where we live, right, and that's where we train. Now, do we take a 13 year old kid from Seattle and move them to Florida? There are a lot of life things that could go wrong in there. So I don't think it's as easy as we should just fix it at scale. I think what we should do is give more power if someone is in, if a junior is in a good situation at home. Instead of making it our situation where we're removing them from something. I think we should fund that situation right. I think we should give them all of the tools, all of the resources If we think they're in a great situation and if they want to come in time to time. Second set of eyeballs I think that's great. Um, I think we became too obsessed with boiling the ocean right.

Speaker 1: 1:04:00

Players aren't made the same way. There's no chance that anything that Agassi did with his game style and McEnroe did with his game style would have worked the same when you're training those two guys. It's just different Pete's demeanor versus my demeanor, where Pete had this otherworldly confidence that he could play terribly on a Saturday, going into a Grand Slam, and he just knew that it would be there when he took the racket back on a Monday. I needed to play well on Saturday. I needed to play well on Sunday to play well on Monday. I don't know that you can apply the same strategies to all sorts of different types of games and all sorts of different types of brains. I am a firm believer that when you get a lot of guys bunched together and they start inching, that's what we want.

Speaker 1: 1:04:51

We currently have five guys that are pretty much all on top of each other in ranking, all pushing each other. I hope more than anything, one of them breaks out and makes a final, one of them breaks out and wins a slam and I think an avalanche happens. I think if Korda makes a final, tommy Paul's going wait a minute, I was the guy and then Fritz goes I was the guy and Foe goes well, I was the guy before you guys. I think there's a healthy jealousy that's building. I avoided this question for a long time and I actually think we're gaining on it now. So I think it's kind of the best we've been in a while and I hope that Ben Shelton's jealous of the next person that makes a semi and I hope that they all continue to get along and also a healthy jealousy exists. That is a very realistic scenario in my mind.

Speaker 3: 1:05:39

Do you know how? The Miami Dolphins, the undefeated team from the 70s they have a champagne toast every time a team loses, because they want to stay For the record. I'll say this for you because you're too modest you would like nothing more than to cease being the last American to have won a male's title, right, yeah?

Speaker 1: 1:05:55

I'm done with being a Jeopardy answer.

Speaker 3: 1:05:58

He's rooting hard for.

Speaker 1: 1:06:00

I don't yeah, I have no attachment to it. All I want is to see. I'm not those dolphins. I guarantee you, if there is an American in the final, I will be front and center, not front and center. I will be somewhere hidden and cheering my ass off for whoever is in the final, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 1:06:20

Sophie, we'll do him, and then we'll do these two after that.

Speaker 8: 1:06:24

Hi, so a quick personal note it's my wife's birthday on Friday and it's someone else's birthday on Friday.

Speaker 1: 1:06:32

Oh, is our birthday Friday yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:06:36

You still have time. Wait, are you this Friday?

Speaker 1: 1:06:39

A week from Friday. Got it Sorry. Oh yeah, Sorry, sorry yeah. Good thing you pinned it. Happy birthday to Andy. Now, what? What's your name? What. Spell it for me. O-r-l-i. Orly, are you ready, orly? Early birthday, andy. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear Orly. Happy birthday to you. Was there a question or was that it?

Speaker 8: 1:07:26

And now to the question. Okay, so we've seen a lot of cattiness on the women's side Emma Navarro telling Kinwin what she thinks of Earth and Net. Danielle Collins telling Iga what she thinks of Earth and Net Seems like something new in the tour. What do you guys think of that?

Speaker 1: 1:07:45

I don't think it's new, no, and also I speak from experience Like there are plenty of times where imagine the worst day at your job and all of a sudden there's a personality mix that's like oil and water on that day, except there's cameras everywhere. I've gotten into it with many people. Some are well-documented and a lot of times you would get into it and it would be very emotional. You would say things that you regret and oftentimes, like it was squashed that night, like my most famous one, it was like Novak here and we, we got over it that night. Like we had a conversation as adults that night and we haven't. We, we we've never had a bad interaction since. Now.

Speaker 1: 1:08:35

His fans don't believe us Um but we've, we, we we've never had a bad interaction since, right I've, I've gotten into it with guys that are lifelong friends. Marty and I have gotten into it, we live together. So maybe they think that and people are also allowed, like you can, like two people that disagree with each other on something I don't know. Like I think the Olympics is a specific type of thing where you're playing for your country and there are different pressures, and obviously it manifests itself in kind of weird interactions sometimes. But I don't think it's new. I kind of just think there's a camera everywhere now.

Speaker 3: 1:09:12

Yeah, Three quick points. A I think we sometimes interpret some friction among men different from friction among female players. The Emma Navarro thing, what was interesting to me, you know what she said Like you make the locker room I'm paraphrasing, but not by much. It was sort of you make the locker room less collegial. So it was this confrontation, but it was all in service of having.

Speaker 1: 1:09:34

It's like the adult version of calling someone like a poo-poo head. It's not a big deal. You're less collegial.

Speaker 3: 1:09:40

It was this friction, but it was all in service of sort of making the locker room more hospitable. So it sort of was a strange circular argument and I don't know. I mean some of it too. I think people compete and they're in this aroused state and sometimes if everyone just took 10 minutes to calm down, these emotions wouldn't get publicized. But I also think, don't we kind of like this as fans? I mean, I don't want lack of sportsmanship, I don't want bitterness, but sometimes it's okay if the players don't necessarily, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:10:10

I fully agree with you.

Speaker 3: 1:10:12

Roger's a great guy. Roger's amazing and he was amazing. But you know what, every once in a while, it would have been nice if one person had said you know what? I'm taking you down today, buddy. This is competition. I think a certain, without trespassing into lack of sportsmanship, I think a certain amount of friction is okay.

Speaker 1: 1:10:32

The next time that you change the channel when two people are getting into it, I'll believe that you don't like it. Down here in front, if you can.

Speaker 2: 1:10:43

Oh this little guy right here. Here we go. I have a question.

Speaker 6: 1:10:49

Sure Tokovic, he's a really good player and all, but he's an older one, right? So when do you think he's going to retire?

Speaker 1: 1:10:57

Okay. He is a really good player.

Speaker 2: 1:11:03

The best.

Speaker 1: 1:11:05

I don't know. So there's two factors of which I would be guessing. On right His game, I think he can stay near the top for years. But that's assuming a couple of things, assuming health, which you probably never had a hurt body part in your entire life. That wasn't caused by concrete, right.

Speaker 1: 1:11:27

Your body will get worse from where it is right now. Um so, predicting health, which at 37 normally goes the wrong way, right, I don't think he's going to get healthier. I don't think he's gonna be healthier at 40 than he is at 37, and I don't feel like that's controversial. I cannot wait for novex fans to go. You know you suck, you suck. Controversial statement and two, I think. What's your favorite sport? What's your favorite thing to do? What's the thing you're most passionate about?

Speaker 6: 1:11:59

Well, I play tennis and all, so I think that's my favorite sport.

Speaker 1: 1:12:00

Okay, so Novak is in a place where no other human has been before, at least on the men's side, where there's not a single person on earth who has ever won more Grand Slams than he's won. So I mentioned earlier, he's chasing ghosts. He has been so disciplined for so long to where I think he had one piece of chocolate for like 20 years, because he is just this hyper, focused, intense, great, you know, and John can speak to this after me. But so there's two things. There's one can his body stay healthy? Two can he keep the motivation up?

Speaker 1: 1:12:32

And I don't think it would be controversial to say over the first six months of this year I think it was hard for him to manifest the mental energy needed to kind of claw and dig and be up for every match. And then the Olympics come and all of a sudden he reverts to greatness because it meant that much to him. So I think, physically it wouldn't surprise me if he was still competing for slams in a couple, three years. But it also wouldn't surprise me if he woke up one day and said you know what I've accomplished, every single thing I ever wanted to do, and then some, and I'm going to have some chocolate.

Speaker 3: 1:13:08

A. That's an awesome shirt you're wearing. Did everyone see that? What a great New York tennis shirt you win.

Speaker 3: 1:13:15

Honestly, I don't think Novak knows. I don't think he knows. I mean, I think these athletes genuinely don't have much of a. I think it changes based on results. It changes based on life circumstances.

Speaker 3: 1:13:26

We were talking before what do you do for motivation when you've won the most majors? You've made a big deal out of this Olympic medal. Oh, you won that too, you've. You know it's.

Speaker 3: 1:13:35

If you said to him you know Los Angeles Olympics, four years from now you'll be in your 40s how amazing would it be to compete from there? I don't know, maybe longevity is the kind of thing that gets him motivation to continue playing. I also could see him say you know what? I'm 37 years old, I've done this. My kids aren't getting any younger. I'm missing back to school night again. It's been a great show. I honestly. I mean it's. We can speculate. It seems natural to speculate, right when we do this all the time, like will Biden run for reelection? We do this all the time. It's natural. But I don't think Novak Djokovic honestly knows, and I think if he loses in the first round, it's a different calculus than if he wins this event again. But I think the same thing with Nadal. I think the athletes themselves genuinely don't know and they're kind of riding it with the rest of us.

Speaker 1: 1:14:24

I'll say this I don't think he's on the front side of his career.

Speaker 3: 1:14:26

No, any more.

Speaker 1: 1:14:28

Go out on a limb. Thank you for your question. Thank you for coming.

Speaker 3: 1:14:30

Great question, great story.

Speaker 1: 1:14:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:14:32

Go ahead yeah. So I come all the way from Bangalore, India.

Speaker 4: 1:14:37

And I kind of timed my coming here for the US.

Speaker 1: 1:14:40

Welcome Wow.

Speaker 7: 1:14:48

Yeah, I've been coming here for many years. Great, and this is a topic which most might agree. Why are the tickets so hard to get and why are the shows so expensive? And I've been to more than like 18 tournaments and they're all masters and ATP finals, but I hate going to the Grand Slams because it's just not possible. It's not, or why would you buy the tickets? And especially if you do a multi-day event or say one week, if you're living close by, it's feasible.

Speaker 1: 1:15:12

Hey, mike, mike. Second, are you giving away any free tickets? Who just won the account? Pass Mike, google supply and demand Google supply and demand Google, google supply. I've done economics, yeah Good, because I didn't Tell you what. Leave your info with Sophie and we'll try to get you Grounds passes for one day. But also Also, also, nobody else ask Because we're not doing this again.

Speaker 5: 1:15:45

I admire someone who can get up and shoot their shots.

Speaker 2: 1:15:46

We'll figure it out for one day Also also also nobody else asked, because we're not doing this again. I admire someone who can get up and shoot their shots.

Speaker 1: 1:15:49

I will say this We'll figure it out for one day.

Speaker 2: 1:15:51

Cincinnati just sent a record 200,000 people through the gate. I mean I can't imagine what's going to happen here with great weather that it's going to have.

Speaker 1: 1:15:57

Hey, I'll tell you on this podcast, and that's a great point. I'll tell you. Oh sorry, excuse me, it's just a person. I have four people I wanted to meet. It's.

Speaker 3: 1:16:03

Roger Federer who I had up close.

Speaker 7: 1:16:08

And then Andy Roddick, john Merton and I have one more guy who I wanted to meet. It's Robbie, who I need to meet myself and hopefully I will do that. Oh well, good, I thought she was going to say me.

Speaker 3: 1:16:17

We'll make that happen for you.

Speaker 1: 1:16:26

So, when I heard.

Speaker 1: 1:16:28

Roger Federer, John Wirth, I'm me and not producer Mike, not producer Mike Nice, to meet you. We'll try to get you figured out. I think I know someone who can get tickets, but one of the things on the point so I'll tell you when I think I'm right and I'll also tell you when I'm dead wrong. Right, I thought, in kind of common knowledge was that once people named Roger Serena, I'm sad to say, I think Rafa's close to potentially shutting it down.

Speaker 1: 1:16:55

I thought when these icons left the game, I didn't see demand and interest in the sport going through the roof. I think they laid the groundwork. I think unbelievable good fortune that we have people like Alcaraz and Coco and Sinner, who have just picked up right where the others left off. I didn't think that we'd be sitting here in 2024 with the interest level being what it's been at. I mean, we're talking documentaries made on Netflix following the tours, personal documentaries getting greenlit all the time. Tennis is having a very, very mainstream moment. Unfortunately, interest, you know you said you're an economics major, so I won't tell you your business, but it normally causes things to go up.

Speaker 2: 1:17:40

Down here in front.

Speaker 4: 1:17:44

Right here. Sophie don't listen to Mike, do whatever you want we started regarding sinner and doping, and I just want to go back to that for a second. You talked about things being nuanced and you said that the amount that they found was less than a grain of salt. Right?

Speaker 1: 1:18:06

58,000 times less, I think, per his coach.

Speaker 4: 1:18:11

So isn't it nuanced? How does that enhance performance?

Speaker 2: 1:18:15

It doesn't.

Speaker 4: 1:18:16

It doesn't so how is that not taken into consideration? I think it was. I think that's why he wasn't suspended.

Speaker 3: 1:18:22

Yeah, I mean, the flip side too is this anti-doping is sort of you know, it's whack-a-mole right. So one response to that would have been, yeah, if he was cycling off it and tried to time it to the detection, yeah, the amount would have gone down. I'd also think the gram thing was a little strange to see something measured as a function of a gram, which is not something we often find.

Speaker 1: 1:18:47

One is one billionth of a gram.

Speaker 3: 1:18:49

I mean no, the truth. I mean you sort of look at the. If anyone objectively looked at the fact pattern, it's really to me pretty clear what happened. It was an unforced error, but it was not bad intent. That said, I think the amount is a little misleading because what athletes try to do, they try to cycle off to coordinate it with the doping test. So it stands to reason you would have a microscopic amount in you when the test came. But I think you're right. I'm sure the trace amount was something that the panel took into account.

Speaker 1: 1:19:23

What it does is that the amount that was in his system made his story and his explanation feasible. I think so. Either he told a great story or that's what actually happened. But the thing that should they be testing? Should they up the minimums, I don't know, that's a question that maybe should be talked about. But then at what cost? Because as a player, you want to know that absolutely there was no impact on performance.

Speaker 1: 1:19:53

And the other example I always use and I used it earlier today, but I'm going to reiterate it is that Balco was the source of this designer steroid in baseball. In baseball, they didn't know how to test for it for a very long time, and still someone got sideways with the company and basically gave away the special sauce and ratted out Balco. And then they knew what they were testing for and all of a sudden started picking people off left and right. So were there trace elements of something they were testing for and baseball just is softer on it I don't know for. And baseball just is softer on it, I don't know. Sometimes those little details, given more research, can stop a problem at scale later on down the road.

Speaker 4: 1:20:40

And then just to follow up with that in terms of his performance here, based on all the questions that he's going to get from the press and I don't know what's going on in the locker room. Yeah, emotionally, tennis, we know, is a lot of mental fortitude. So you mentioned someone like jokovic with like yeah needle back, but yeah my, I just think that he's gonna. It's gonna be hard. I mean, it's not gonna be and it's something like it's.

Speaker 1: 1:21:01

it's weird to sit here and say, okay, you're number one in the world, you've won a grand slam, you've beaten everyone on earth, and yet you're in a completely new situation. And he's not thirsty for attention. He doesn't operate that way. He's not, you know, tweeting all the time. He doesn't promote attention to himself outside of his bank account if he agrees to do a campaign of some sort and or his job. So yeah, I'll be as curious as anyone else.

Speaker 3: 1:21:29

But here's just real quick. So this came out today's Wednesday, right, this came out Tuesday. Monday night he plays the final of Cincinnati Big event, you know, not a major but as close as you can get, and he knows this announcement is coming out and he's going to have to deal with this fallout? I think he did.

Speaker 3: 1:21:46

Yeah. So he goes out there knowing in 24 hours we've received it. It's good news, but it's going to be a little bit controversial. And he goes out and he plays a great match, wins the final, beats Francis in front of a partisan crowd. To me that's it's not quite analogous, but it's an indication that he has this ability to compartmentalize. So no, I mean, this will be one of the stories to watch Because, again, like Andy says, some players, you have a sense how they're going to respond. We've got nothing on this guy because it's so out of character.

Speaker 1: 1:22:15

And also I don't think he's ever been heckled because he's listen, say what you want, think what you want about the doping situation situation, but he has been a gentleman on the court his entire career. There's not a person in the locker room that has had much friction with him until now, to your point. So we'll see.

Speaker 2: 1:22:34

This is the last question, by the way, because Mr Roddick has to go play an event shortly so.

Speaker 1: 1:22:38

Last question I'll tell you the story about that.

Speaker 6: 1:22:40

What a nightmare that's going to be. I have a question. I appreciate your 47-second, very reasonable take on the Jack Draper attacking the ball and lack of replay From players' perspective. What is a good official like? There are lots of officials out there out in the center court with lots of personalities. What does a good one, a fair one, look like from your perspective, One that you don't even notice is there.

Speaker 1: 1:23:06

It's one of those jobs where if you're being noticed, you're most likely doing something wrong, and that's the life of a tennis referee. Also, players prefer different things, like if I asked a question, I want like a long-winded story. I wanted like facts to the point. If someone's like I heard you, andy, you're wrong, get on with it. I kind of responded okay to that, but I sure will Let me just finish answering the question, and then there's no chance that I leave this building without signing your tennis ball.

Speaker 3: 1:23:40

I mean a good it's a great question.

Speaker 4: 1:23:42

It's hard to Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:23:43

I'm going to say Okay, it's hard to be a bad referee right now because there's video cameras everywhere. All you have to do is just use common sense and call the score. You don't actually have to overrule anything. It's never been easier to be an umpire than it is at this very moment, and we're still finding a way to screw it up somehow. That'll be the headline, john. What's your thoughts? You?

Speaker 6: 1:24:03

talk to a lot of players. What's your thoughts? You talk to a lot of players. What's your thoughts, john? Sorry, what's your thoughts John?

Speaker 3: 1:24:08

Oh, I mean I think I mean I think first of all, it's a great question. I think different players expect different things, but I think consistency is important.

Speaker 1: 1:24:15

I think there is this attitude that some of the chairs grandstand too much and they like to make it a bit of a match, which is super annoying.

Speaker 3: 1:24:22

And I mean, I think, honestly, if you had, you saw what happened with Hawkeye, whatever 15 years ago, and there was just this certitude, like the players saw it right. There's the image the ball was out. I don't understand the physics and the AI, but you know what? I've got some sort of certitude. I'm going to go back to the baseline and play the point and I think if you had replay, I mean it was so absurd the other night. It was like the broadcasters knew what was going on. Everyone on Twitter knew what was going on, everyone that was watching could see the replay. The three people most intensely impacted both players in the chair were out there guessing. That is absurd. So I think consistency, but also if this element of common sense can enter the equation, that would be good.

Speaker 1: 1:25:03

That is our Serb show for tonight.

Speaker 5: 1:25:08

We are humbled you guys were great, thank you this is.

Speaker 1: 1:25:17

This has been really fun. I didn't, I didn't really know if there were any chapters left in tennis, and there seems to be kind of a new chapter. I'm loving it. I thank you all for listening. Thank you for coming as far as you've come to watch tennis and to participate in this. Thank you for bringing your kids. Sorry about my language Sick mustache. We appreciate you. Thank you, chase, for making this whole experience happen. We appreciate you. This beautiful Chase Lounge Wait.

Speaker 2: 1:25:46

Mike.

Speaker 1: 1:25:46

This isn't the last time this will happen, we have another show. We're doing a live show next Wednesday. Give us the details and then I'm going to break some news on our guest next week. It's someone who I think is super cool.

Speaker 2: 1:25:59

So it's going to be another live show. It's going to be the Rooftop at Pier 17, which is down near the it's no longer called the seaport. I at Pier 17, which is down near the, it's no longer called the seaport. I don't think rooftop at Pier 17.

Speaker 1: 1:26:09

And it'll be we definitely wouldn't call it South Street Seaport. Definitely wouldn't call it that. That is not that. Just in case there was confusion.

Speaker 2: 1:26:14

It is the rooftop at Pier 17. Our good friends at Chase have invited us over there to do another live show. In fact, it's exclusively for Chase Sapphire card members. Anybody in here have a Chase Sapphire card? Great, well, you guys can go on and you guys can get your tickets now, today.

Speaker 1: 1:26:30

Go to chasecom We'll sing again, Orly We'll do another song That'll be actually closer to your birthday. It won't be the eve of your birthday. Yeah, we'll just keep going.

Speaker 2: 1:26:37

Tickets are available at chasecom forward slash Sapphire Experiences.

Speaker 1: 1:26:48

And that's for everyone. Watching, listening anywhere else YouTube, apple, spotify please check it out, does anyone?

Speaker 5: 1:26:53

know the singer Seal yeah, he's going to come, he's going to talk about it.

Speaker 1: 1:26:56

He is our favorite podcast fan. I spent no less than three mornings this summer where we would do a show. He loves tennis. He sends me inspirational center yourself videos which I desperately need. He is a massive fan. He is going to come join our show. We got into the habit this summer where we'd do a show. He would listen to it From Europe. I'd get a text. Got to ask you a question about the show.

Speaker 1: 1:27:23

My wife would wake up she'd be like who are you talking to? I'm like Seal. She's like this isn't real life.

Speaker 4: 1:27:27

Thank you, you've been a great audience. Thank you so much.