Navigating the Afterlife: A Divine Tapestry of Hell, Choice, and Redemption

Embark with us as we navigate the intricate landscapes of Hell and the afterlife, illuminated through the lens of evangelical Christianity. Unravel the nuances of "Four Views on Hell," where theologians debate the destinies awaiting us beyond life's veil. With each perspective — from the traditional fire-and-brimstone to the merciful annihilation or the hope of universal salvation — our conversation probes deeper into the theological underpinnings that have both comforted and confounded believers through the ages. As your host, I open up about my own gravitation toward universalism combined with temporal purification and cleansing and invite you to weigh its compassionate rationale against the backdrop of eternal suffering.

Our journey doesn't shy away from the pivotal moments that define our spiritual trajectory. Imagine standing before a manifestation of pure love and mercy, tasked with a choice that echoes into eternity. Through scriptural passages, we confront the beauty and the dread of this decision, juxtaposing the embrace of divine love with the abyss of its rejection. We consider the transformative encounter with the divine, embodied by Jesus, and how one's response could seal their fate, as I share my conviction in the overwhelming allure of such love.

Finally, we turn inward, contemplating the assurance that faith in Jesus provides, despite our imperfect understanding. Reflecting on the nature of faith and the character of God as revealed in scripture, we touch upon the comfort and promise of Revelation's vision of a pain-free existence under God's loving gaze. As we wrap up this episode, I encourage you to mull over these profound concepts and join the conversation, sharing how your own reflections on faith and afterlife resonate with the ideas we've traversed together.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Welcome and greetings to you. Okay, so here we are, finally and at last, to the place. I promised that we would go Hell. Okay, maybe not literally, but maybe more as a topic for us to talk about, and that would be the big topic of today's evangelical evangelism. I want to first point out briefly and I'll touch upon this again later that we cannot possibly know with 100% certainty what will happen when we quote-unquote die. This is one of the reasons why faith is so important. Since we can't and won't know for sure in this lifetime. We have to have something to hold on to right. We have to have something to hold on to right. So keep in mind, although I will be giving an overview of a book I'm currently reading on the topic, and I have my own opinions that I will share towards the end, none of us can know for certain what will happen.

Speaker 1: 1:23

The book that I'm currently reading is called the Four Views on Hell. There's one contributor for each viewpoint and I'll share who wrote each section a little later when I outline the four views. This book identifies four views that can be backed up based on one's interpretation of Scripture. We need to interpret Scripture with the help of the Holy Spirit and the lens or ontology, as I said last week, of Jesus that we talked about in the last episode, in order to come to a relatively solid viewpoint. In order to come to a relatively solid viewpoint, but in the meantime, here's what I found from reading this book.

Speaker 1: 2:15

Starting off, here's the four views that are mentioned. The first one is unending eternal conscious torment, torment and Punishment it's also known as ECT. That is written by Denny Burke. The second is Annihilationism, or what they call in the book Terminal Punishment, and that's written by John G Stackhouse Jr. Universalism is the third, and that is basically salvation for all not that all roads lead to salvation and that's written by a gentleman named Robin A Perry, who also writes under the pseudonym of Gregory MacDonald. And then there's the purgatorial view. This is the last one, which is basically hell and purgatory, and that's written by Jerry L Walls. All right, let's talk about number one.

Speaker 1: 3:17

The most widely held view in Western Christianity and evangelicalism is the idea of unending eternal conscious torment and punishment. This view holds that each person is an eternal being, a spirit that will never die, never cease to exist, etc. However, this position holds that if one does not believe in Jesus while in this lifetime, that when they die in this world, they will exist in hell in the next, hell being a place of eternal, never-ending and infinite torment and punishment. It is depicted in movies and books as a place in a pit that is fiery and exorbitantly hot, with a lake that burns with fire, and a place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. If any of you have seen the show Stranger Things and watched the last season, you'll know what I'm referring to. The weeping and gnashing of teeth and the horrendous abyss that one will live in for eternity requires that they exist in some sort of body that can endure worms eating the flesh flesh that, apparently, can regenerate as fast as the worms can eat it. By the way, as a side note, how do the worms not die either? That's a question for another day. And hell is also a place where the fire consumes the body again, where the flesh can regenerate as quickly as the fire consumes it, the alternative being that if you do believe in Jesus in this lifetime, whatever that actually means, you will be raised to an unending life in paradise, or what we would call heaven. This view prescribes that there is a finality to our choices and that these choices in the here and now will determine what happens in the afterlife. Basically, the idea is that once you die, wherever your dice landed meaning whatever you chose before death, that's where you stay Either heaven or hell Forever.

Speaker 1: 6:07

Prohibitionism or terminal punishment is similar to the eternal torment and punishment view in the sense that sinners have a destination other than heaven and that it happens that your choice in this lifetime will determine that destination. And in this case, instead of the destination being that of hell, as defined as a place of eternal conscious torment and punishment, hell in this case is defined as non-existence, or termination, if you will. If you're a sinner, when you die, meaning that you don't believe in Jesus, at the moment of your earthly death, you will be set aside and ultimately destroyed to the point that you never even existed. There is literally nothing left of you, not your body, your soul, not your spirit or your mind, not your memories, nothing. You just lapse into nothingness. You just lapse into nothingness, non-existence, which I guess, if you hold this view, that's better and more merciful than being eternally tormented and tortured and punished and living an eternal life in some fiery pit where all you experience is terror. Isn't that the ultimate version of terrorism. Anyway, I know personally, if I had to choose between eternal torment and punishment and a life of non-existence, I would choose non-existence because at least then I wouldn't know anything. I wouldn't know about my life, I wouldn't know about my family, my son, my spouse, nothing. I would rather that than to have all those memories and be eternally tormented in some terrorist's dungeon.

Speaker 1: 8:03

The third view is the universal salvation view. This is not the view that all religious roads lead to salvation. This view does still require Jesus to be the conduit, the glue that holds it all together, but it does mean that all human beings ultimately are saved in the end. Ultimately are saved in the end. Why? Because of what Jesus did, not because of what we believe. This view includes the possibility of repentance after death, unlike the first two views. So there may be those who end up in hell, however you define it, but it does mean that they will ultimately be saved at the end of time because of what Jesus did. But what of free, will you ask? How does that play into universal salvation if Jesus did all the work and ultimately saved everyone in the end, with or without their consent? Robin Perry, also known as Gregory MacDonald states in this book.

Speaker 1: 9:18

Many will claim that, while I may be correct in much of what I have said, I have forgotten something critical Human freedom, although God desires to redeem all people, he does not wish to do so in such a way that violates their free will. And free will, by its very nature, cannot be controlled by God. Consequently, god cannot guarantee that all people will freely choose to accept salvation. Those in hell are there not because God wants them to be there, but because of choices freely made. Now, what's interesting about that statement is that we all think that God is always in control right, but according to him, he says, free will, by its very nature, cannot be controlled. Another topic for another day. He goes on to say that universalists are not suggesting that God saves anyone against their will, and he continues that God works in differing ways so as to solicit a free response.

Speaker 1: 10:34

Robin later reflects on Thomas Talbot's argument that genuine free will and action requires a basic level of rationality. Is that really true, though? Robin gives an example of an extreme situation where, when someone performs an action, when they have, a no motive for doing so and B a very strong motive for not doing so that we would tend to consider their actions utterly irrational and not genuinely free. And he gives this example a boy who thrusts his hand into a fire, even though he has no reason for wanting to put his hand into the fire, and a very good reason for not wanting to. Would we not celebrate his freedom? He says no, we would call a psychiatrist, and that may be true, but for me personally, I think this is a weak case for how free will and choice works.

Speaker 1: 11:42

As a society. Do we not hold accountable those who are not, in their quote unquote right minds for actions that cause harm to others? Of course we do. The schizophrenic who hears a voice that tells him to kill his neighbor in the name of Jesus is still held accountable for his actions, assuming he actually carried out those instructions. Of course, actions assuming he actually carried out those instructions, of course he's still held accountable, even if his destination is a psychiatric hospital rather than a prison. He's been deemed unsafe for society and so therefore, he's put into protective custody one way or another, so that he no longer can harm himself or others. So I think there is more to this than what meets the eye when it comes to just believing a straight universal salvation viewpoint, although I do lean towards universalism. Free will and choice have to be taken way more seriously for this view to be established as the norm, all right.

Speaker 1: 12:42

The fourth view is that of purgatory. Purgatory is basically the idea that there's an outer room to heaven where those who died under grace meaning believing in Jesus will be purified and cleansed before entering into heaven. It's sort of like getting the chemical shower after being exposed to toxins before you can come into the presence of other people so that you don't infect them. This is not seen as a place of a second chance for those who denied Christ while they lived in this time. Those people will spend their lives in hell. Their lives in hell. Now, whether the purgatorial view sees hell as eternal, conscious torment or terminal, the book really didn't say. What it does say, though, is for those who did believe in Christ before they died and accepted in him, confessed him before or at the point of death, they will be cleansed or made holy, and then will enter into heaven to be with God. Of course, this raises the poignant question of isn't what Jesus did on the cross by pouring out his blood enough to cleanse them? Why would they need to go through any additional cleansing.

Speaker 1: 14:04

By the blood of Christ, we are cleansed of all unrighteousness. 1 John 1, verses 7-9 in the English Standard Version states but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another. And the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from all sin. And the verse continues and says If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Something to think about, anyway. Now, those are the four views that are depicted in the book that I'm reading, but in my personal opinion, I think there's a fifth possibility, and that is a combination of what I call temporal purification and cleansing in hell quote-unquote combined with the majority of the universalistic view.

Speaker 1: 15:10

Let me elaborate. We already know that free will and choice have a part to play in this. What if? Where you land is based on your choice, but you always, always, always have the ability to choose differently, no matter whether you're in this life or the next one. Let's say, while you lived on this earth you were a horrible human being. I mean wretched evil. Can we think of anyone that might be like that? Some would say, yeah, I can think of at least one person Hitler. But let's say you were worse than Hitler, and let's say that your life was so bad that you turned your back completely on God. Believe that nothing existed beyond what you experience in the here and now. There is no higher power. There is nothing but you and your life and your experiences.

Speaker 1: 16:19

You come to the end of your life and you're on your deathbed and you know, if you don't make a choice now, you're going to be stuck with. Whatever the consequences for your actions will be, you will have to pay for them and that is all that will be left. But you wait, you hold off, you contemplate and you finally decide that there is nothing else and you die. You made your bed and you'll lie in it. You decided a long time ago that there is no God, that heaven and hell only exist here on earth, and you've lived in hell and will continue to do so. And when you die, knowing that you're going to hell, because that's all you've known, so why not just continue it and expand it to eternity? And unbelievable torture and torment and unending punishment, as if your life hasn't been all that and more. Let's take that a step further, though, and you die.

Speaker 1: 17:25

But all of a sudden, you find yourself on a chair in a room, a room full of light and heat. Light beyond anything you've seen or imagined. It's blinding, more blinding than a full solar eclipse, okay. And heat that is so hot that you feel as though you will melt into nothing, like the man in the movie the Raiders of the Lost Ark. But there stands Jesus, the one you've denied your whole life, the one you've said never existed. And even if he did exist, you don't believe he was sent by God and did all the things that were said about him. What if you met Jesus, for who he is?

Speaker 1: 18:19

In that room, you meet this one who you've heard claimed was love, who was compassionate, merciful, forgiving, and he stands before you. He plays back the tape of your whole life, every single bad, good or indifferent thing that you have ever done, and he says to you I forgive you anyway and, yes, maybe you didn't accept that when you were in human form, but you have a chance now. What do you say? Choice is at the very essence of everything human. Again, you're faced with continuing in the delusion you lived your whole human existence in, or you can choose differently. This isn't about belief or even acceptance. It's about truth. Are you going to hear the truth and respond accordingly? The truth is standing before you, telling you who he is and who you are. Remember Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life. So what do you do? Let's play this out with both possibilities. First, choosing life.

Speaker 1: 19:54

The Bible says in Philippians 2.4, do not merely look out for your own personal interest, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves, which was also in Christ Jesus who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a bondservant and being made in the likeness of men, being found in appearance as a man. He humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, god highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus and here's my emphasis every knee will bow of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth. Pause for a second. This would imply those who are dead, right, okay, continuing on. And that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Speaker 1: 21:06

What if, at this point, you're physically dead? You're standing before Jesus, the Lord of King and all, and his position towards you is one of love, compassion, forgiveness, mercy and grace, and not one of anger and wrath. You look into his fiery, piercing eyes and with those eyes you see everything about yourself the good, the bad, the ugly, and you see him for who he is total and pure love and compassion. How do you respond? At this point, you're still a person, still a created being with the ability to choose. You can still choose to deny Christ, in which case, according to Revelations 21.8, you can choose to go to the place where the lake that burns with fire and brimstone exists, and you can stay there for however long you choose. But Revelation 21.25 says that the gates of God's residence will never be shut or closed. And later, in Revelation 22, verse 17, it says the spirit and the bride say come and let the one who hears say come and let the one who is thirsty come and let the one who wishes to take the water of life without cost.

Speaker 1: 22:35

How do you respond? You are probably going to respond exactly how Philippians says, but it's going to be a willing bowing of the knee and a willing confession that Christ is Lord, not a forced one. I want you to understand that what I'm saying is my opinion only based upon my studies, but I believe in that situation you're going to meet the truest, most beautiful human being there ever was, and that person loves you to the core, was, and that person loves you to the core, and you're going to experience the greatest, most truest and unconditional love you've ever had. In my opinion, you aren't going to be able to help yourself from acknowledging who he is and the love that is being exchanged between the two of you, and it's going to be a willing, almost automatic falling to your knees in appreciation and adoration. Why? Because Jesus is pure love. But then again, this is just my conjecture.

Speaker 1: 23:48

Listen to Mercy Me's song. I Can Only Imagine and then ask yourselves just exactly how will you respond when you meet Jesus, no matter where you are in life at that point, whether it's in rejection or acceptance, people are going to fall to their knees in appreciation and adoration, not because they are forced to by an overlord, but because the radiance and the impact that true love has on you won't allow for anything else, in my opinion, you will willingly choose acceptance. Now, of course, you can choose not to accept that, and that's your prerogative as a human being who has been given free will. But if you met love, true, pure love, how could you not willingly and readily bow and confess really, okay, what about the other option? What if you say, in the face of all that love, that, nope, you're not going to accept it anyway?

Speaker 1: 24:57

Well, revelation 21, verse 8, says but for the cowardly and the unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone. Note that this says nothing about your duration there. All right, so that's the destination for rejecting Jesus, whether in this life or the next An eternally burning fire, the hottest you've ever experienced and, by the way, the adjective eternally is in relation to the burning fire, not to you In a lake which, by the way, would be water that burns. So it's a tease, it's a temptation of sorts, where you are fooled into believing that you have the ability to quench your thirst, but the waters are full of hot coals and sediment. So there is no refreshment, there is no relief in sight, there is nothing but pure and unadulterated torture. Basically, this is the equivalent of Jesus saying on the cross I thirst, and the Roman guards giving him a sip of vinegar.

Speaker 1: 26:20

So there you are in an unbelievably uncomfortable, torturous place with absolutely zero relief, except for one, and the one relief you think you're going to get is sour the water in the lake. Well, that should supply some sort of relief, right? Nope, it's like the Dead Sea full of saline, sour to the taste and depletes the body of all the nutrients it needs to stay alive, but yet it gives just enough to keep the taste and depletes the body of all the nutrients it needs to stay alive, but yet it gives just enough to keep the flames and the torture going on. What's the point of being in this lake of fire? What kind of God do we serve if he's the infinite terrorist, infinite terrorist? What if, however, this fire that you chose to go into isn't for torture and punishment, but rather is a fire like a blacksmith uses to purify gold and silver, to take out the impurities? In other words, it's not retributive, but rather restorative, that it's for reconciliation and not for some debt payment for some ogre who is angry and wrathful.

Speaker 1: 27:47

1 Corinthians 3, verses 12-15. Now, if any man builds upon the foundation the foundation being Jesus, by the way, but even if it's not Jesus, any man builds upon the foundation, with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw each man's work will become evident, for the day will show it, because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work, which he's has built upon it, remains, he shall receive a reward. If Eddie Brown's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss, but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire, yet so as through fire. So wait, someone is in the flames and is burning in hell, yet once the works of that person are burned up, but the person themselves shall be saved, yet as though through fire. Hmm, that speaks to the idea that a person's experience in hell might be temporal, don't you think? Let's continue.

Speaker 1: 29:20

Colossians 1, verse 20,. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in him, jesus, and through him, jesus to reconcile all things to himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross. Through him I say whether things on earth or things in heaven, and although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet he has now reconciled you in his fleshly body through death, in order to present you before him. That would be the Father, holy and blameless and beyond reproach, if indeed you continue in the faith, firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was and here's my emphasis proclaimed in all of creation under heaven and of which I, paul, was made a minister. That speaks a lot to reconciliation, does it not? I think in that verse it was either two or three times that word was stated that speaks to not only jesus reconciling us, but also, through the death of his own body, he has presented us already before God as wholly blameless and beyond reproach. Think about that for a while. All right.

Speaker 1: 31:06

Going back to what I emphasized in terms of proclaimed in all of creation under heaven, let me ask you a question Is heaven and hell part of creation or not? Is there any scripture that proves that heaven and hell existed before creation was made? If heaven and hell are then part of creation, then guess what? The gospel must be able to be preached in hell. If the gospel has been proclaimed in all of creation, under heaven, right? And if the gospel can be preached in hell, what does that mean for the people that are there? It means they must have a choice, right, and what if? What if you can choose to change your mind, also known as repenting after death and after being in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone for your purification, by the way, and still come into the place where God dwells forever? If that's true, that means that, yes, you can choose to reject Jesus, go to hell, a place where you will pay for your own sins by sitting in the flames of purification until that's done, or you can choose to repent and exit that place. What if? Well, let's look at what John the Revelator says about it.

Speaker 1: 32:46

Revelation 21, verses 3 through 7. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying behold, the tabernacle of God is among men and he will dwell among them and they shall be his people, and God himself will be among them and he will wipe away every tear from their eyes and there will no longer be any death, there will no longer be any mourning or crying or pain. The first things have passed away. And he who sits on the throne said behold, I am making all things new. And he said to me right, for these words are faithful and true. Then he said to me it is done. I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end, and here's my emphasis. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life, without cost. He who overcomes will inherit these things and I, I will be his God and he will be my son.

Speaker 1: 33:56

What, if?

Speaker 1: 33:58

Really? There are no qualifications on timing or decisions in that verse, only that whoever thirsts can be quenched without cost. And I imagine that those who are in hell would be very thirsty. Now understand, we're not talking about a literal lake that burns. We are not talking about a literal thirst for water. We are talking about the purification that we go through in that place, the cleansing of our life, our bodies, our souls, our minds, our spirit, our works. It's a spiritual thirst. You can choose to stay in that thirsty place and continue to pay for your own sins being purified in the flames. Sure, you can certainly choose that. But what if, at some point, during that purification process, you decide that Jesus really is who he says he is and you willingly bow the knee and confess him as Lord and you are able to walk out of that place.

Speaker 1: 35:07

And what if Jesus who, according to the book of Revelation, is always standing at the door knocking Revelations 3, 7-8 and Revelations 3, 18-21. That Jesus comes to you wiping away your tears, hugging you and comforting you in your pain, and he cleans you off from all the ash and dust and gives you clean clothes to put on, and he gives you a big cup of water from that spring, of the water of life. And you're quenched, you're filled. And guess what, when you come out of those flames, there is no payment for getting all that relief. All that is needed is to overcome. Verse 7 says, revelation 3.21 states he who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Speaker 1: 36:10

Basically, stay in the flames until the work of the flames is done and has purified you, or choose Jesus. Either way you're going to end up at the same destination. That's what it means to overcome. I think the easier way is to choose Jesus, but you can go either way. I think the easier way is to choose Jesus, but you can go either way.

Speaker 1: 36:40

Besides, who says that overcoming has to happen in this lifetime anyway? There are no qualifications in scripture that says so. So why not in the afterlife? In my opinion, our ability to choose as human beings does not go away after we die, and once we get a true taste of the goodness of God in that afterlife, who would ever choose to go back to anything less? Or even in this lifetime for that matter? I know I wouldn't. And understand this, and understand this. This is going to blow your minds.

Speaker 1: 37:25

The flames of that burning lake of fire are really and truly the glory and magnificence of God themselves. God appeared to Israel during the exodus from Egypt as a flame at night to guide them. Isaiah, chapter 10, verse 17, says and the light of Israel that would be Jesus will become a fire and his holy one a flame, and it will burn and devour his thorns and his briars in a single day. What are thorns and briars? Bad works? And Hebrews 12, chapter 28, verse 29 says Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude. That would be kind of like I don't know willingly bowing the knee and confessing Jesus as Lord. Anyway, let us show gratitude by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe. That's the fear of the Lord, and the last thing it says is for our God is a consuming fire. Now ask yourself, after all that, wouldn't you willingly bow the knee and confess the glorious one?

Speaker 1: 38:46

In light of all of that, I have this picture in my mind. Close your eyes and kind of picture it with me, and that's that we're not standing in a lake of fire when we're standing in the midst of hell. I picture it more that you're in a room and you're standing before Jesus in the fiery presence of his being, and his light and his love and his passion is a flame that not only encompasses you all around, top, bottom, left, right forward, backwards, but is also consuming you from within, and you're right in the midst of it. You're in the middle of it, like in the book of Daniel. You're in the midst of a furnace, but really you're in the midst of God's utter and unimaginable glory, and all that is not of love is being burned away, and that will continue to happen until what is not of love is gone, unless you're willing to accept and confess Jesus, in which case the flames of God's glory will recede and all that is not of love at that point will just be wiped away. When he wipes your tears away. And there you stand, naked before God, and he smiles at you and he says to you well done, my good and faithful servant, enter into my kingdom.

Speaker 1: 40:42

What, if indeed so, if you can subscribe to this idea that it could be a potential combination of temporal purification and cleansing, along with eternal choice and universalism, does that mean that you should live your life in the here and now, however you want to, in debauchery and licentiousness? Of course not. And shouldn't you make the choice now, while you're living in your earthly body and living the human experience? Of course you should. The experience you have in this life will be totally different if you do. That's not to say that you won't struggle, but one thing is for certain In that struggle you will never be alone. You will always have a guide leading you through the gauntlet of life, avoiding as many pitfalls that you let him guide you past. But does that mean that, if you don't live rightly, that there is some finality to it all when your earthly body decays and goes away? I don't think so. I personally think what matches the character, nature, intention and motive, the ontology of God and my study of scripture most is this last option. But again, this is my personal opinion. You can choose to live apart from God in this life and the next, but God's nature and character tells me that there is always a way back to God in this life and the next.

Speaker 1: 42:26

How many places have we read or heard God allows U-turns? Is that really limited to this life only? I personally don't think so. But who am I to say for sure? I'm not saying that you need to believe what I believe. I have given you a summary of the book of the four views on hell. Each one has their own merits and I have given you what I believe is the closest to matching the nature of God and to what I have learned you. What I believe is the closest to matching the nature of God and to what I have learned.

Speaker 1: 42:56

Scripture teaches. But ultimately it's really all up to you and what you believe about God and His intentions towards you and your own study of the Scripture on the matter. But ponder it truly. This is why I laid out in the last episode the foundation that we should have when we approach deep and hard topics, because the only way to navigate those tumultuous waters is with Jesus at the helm. Like I said at the beginning of the episode, there is no possible way for us to know for sure what happens when we die. We have hints, we have people who've had near-death experiences, we have people who have had visions of both heaven and hell, and we have opinions based on scripture, but we will never be able to know with 100% certainty what it will be like until we pass from this time and place and walk through that veil to the next time and place. Isn't that why it's ultimately called faith? We walk by faith, not by sight. When we cross over, as it were, then we can be sure. And what we find on that side of the veil? Who really knows what that will look like for sure? While we're still on this side of it, the only thing I can do on this side of the veil is anchor my hope in Jesus and his character.

Speaker 1: 44:24

Hebrews, chapter 6, verses 17 through 19, says in the same way God desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of his purpose, interposed with an oath, in order that by two unchangeable things, the purpose and the oath, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we may have strong encouragement, we who have fled for refuge, in laying hold of the hope set before us. This hope in Jesus we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast, and one which enters within the veil of death, or also of the Holy of holies, in the temple where jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the accord. The order of melchizedek now, that says that having become uh sorry, it says says where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, not before us. Anyway, let's anchor our hope on the nature, character, intentions and motivations, the ontology of Jesus, who is our high priest, the one who intercedes for us night and day, and let's fasten our hope on him as to where we ultimately will end up. That's honestly really all we can do anyway without 100% assurance in this life, and that's why we must have faith.

Speaker 1: 46:13

Now, you know I've already covered how we get and grow our faith, so if you need to go back and listen to that episode, anyway, I hope in Christ that what I have stated today as my own personal belief is true, or at least close to true. At the very least. I'm sure that I have some things wrong in my belief, because as human beings, we only see in part. But since we only see in part and can't have assuredness of much in this life, one thing that I am sure of is Jesus, and I am sure that he is not only willing but capable of saving me and delivering me into God's kingdom, no matter how I get there or where I get there from. I hope you've enjoyed this. Have a blessed day and if you like this podcast, please go rate the show, leave some comments, thank you.