What if the church, much like a family, could revolutionize our sense of unity and purpose? Join us as we navigate the profound relational structure of the church with Jesus at its helm, akin to the life-giving flow of water from Arctic glaciers. We unpack the symbolism of Ephesians 4:11, exploring how apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers are streams channeling this life-force into the body of Christ. Our discussion clearly distinguishes between the church's purpose—achieving unity and maturity in faith—and its mission of making disciples of all nations, emphasizing the crucial interplay between the two.
Next, we confront the staggering responsibilities shouldered by clergy worldwide. With approximately 838,000 Catholic priests and Protestant ministers tending to a global flock of 8.1 billion, each leader is effectively responsible for nearly 10,000 individuals. We spotlight the unique challenges faced by clergy in vastly different environments—from the congested streets of New York City to the tranquil corners of Butte, Montana. Our conversation sheds light on the immense pressure and logistical hurdles clergy encounter, providing a compelling look into the vital, often unseen, role they play in supporting their communities. Tune in for an insightful exploration of faith leadership and the incredible demands it entails.
What if the church, much like a family, could revolutionize our sense of unity and purpose? Join us as we navigate the profound relational structure of the church with Jesus at its helm, akin to the life-giving flow of water from Arctic glaciers. We unpack the symbolism of Ephesians 4:11, exploring how apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers are streams channeling this life-force into the body of Christ. Our discussion clearly distinguishes between the church's purpose—achieving unity and maturity in faith—and its mission of making disciples of all nations, emphasizing the crucial interplay between the two.
Next, we confront the staggering responsibilities shouldered by clergy worldwide. With approximately 838,000 Catholic priests and Protestant ministers tending to a global flock of 8.1 billion, each leader is effectively responsible for nearly 10,000 individuals. We spotlight the unique challenges faced by clergy in vastly different environments—from the congested streets of New York City to the tranquil corners of Butte, Montana. Our conversation sheds light on the immense pressure and logistical hurdles clergy encounter, providing a compelling look into the vital, often unseen, role they play in supporting their communities. Tune in for an insightful exploration of faith leadership and the incredible demands it entails.
Speaker 1:
Welcome and greetings to you. Last episode I talked about the basic construct of the church, which is nothing more than a group of people functioning as a family, living in such a way that, if any is in need, the others gather together and help. They meet regularly and eat meals together, they share life, they help each other out, they raise each other's children, etc. But let's take that a step further. There is a structure to this family, jesus being the head of the family. All others come after that. But it's not a hierarchical structure like in the mob. It's a relational structure.
Speaker 1:
We often think of head as the top of the pyramid, but that's not what it is at all. In fact, what head means is source. It means the place where everything else flows from. When you think of head in terms of waters, it's the head of a stream, which usually flows from some small break in a rock formation at the top of a hill. Well, technically it starts in the Arctic area, with the glaciers that melt over time and work their way south to the heads of all the streams and rivers and lakes, etc. That small stream from the Arctic that comes out of that broken rock formation flows down and becomes a stream, which becomes a river, which becomes a sea, which becomes an ocean or a lake. So head doesn't mean king of the hill, it means source of all life, where everything starts from. Think of it like the starting point. What does that mean for the church?
Speaker 1:
Paul in Ephesians 4.11, we get into what the church world calls the five-fold ministry. The verse says and he gave some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints, for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. I want to break that down into a simple explanation and relate it to the water symbolism I mentioned. But first I must pose this question what is the purpose of the church? What is the mission of the church? We often think that the purpose of the church is what Jesus said to his disciples in Matthew 28, verse 18. And that says baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you and, lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. But he didn't say that to the church. He said that to his disciples. He said that to his disciples. So the Great Commission, as we call it, is not the mission of the church. It's the mission of the disciples of Christ who are within the church.
Speaker 1:
Let me relate this to the water symbolism. You have Christ as the head of the church. He's the water that is melting from the Arctic glaciers. Within the church you have the fivefold ministers that are supposed to be leading and teaching the church. That's like the water coming forth that is breaking through the rocks in the high mountains. The apostles are the ones who are sent to plant the next church. The prophet is the one who gives specific direction to the apostles that are being sent, but also to the local congregation that they serve. There are evangelists who share the good news outside the church but also remind those inside the church the ultimate reason why they are doing what they are doing, lest we lose sight of that. Then you have the pastors and the teachers, who are the ones who are caring for and training the rest of the disciples within the church to go out and minister, as the five-fold ministry does what it's supposed to do in training the rest of the congregation and disciples. You have the watering going from the head, the Arctic glaciers, which is coming from Jesus, to the rocks in the mountain, which is the five-fold ministers, which filters down to the remainder of the disciples, which leads to the rivers and the seas and the lakes, and Can you see it?
Speaker 1:
Is there a difference between the church and the disciples? I think so. Is there a difference between purpose and mission? I also think so. In this regard For the difference between the church and the disciples, the church is made up of the disciples, yes, but there are some gifts that are specific to just the church and not to all the disciples, and that's the five-fold ministry that I mentioned. As for the difference between purpose and mission, purpose is defined as the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists, and the mission is defined as an important assignment carried out for political, religious or commercial purposes, typically involving travel, political, religious or commercial purposes, typically involving travel. Purpose has to do with the reason. Basically, it's the why behind what you do, and mission is the what you do. So how does this relate to the church, the why or the purpose behind what the church does.
Speaker 1:
The why or the purpose behind what the church does, and more specifically, the five-fold ministry within the church, is found in Ephesians 4.11. It's to equip the saints the saints are the remaining disciples for the work of service and to the building up of the body of Christ. For what goal? To reach the unity of faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, so that we can become the mature body to meet the standard of Christ. That's what Ephesians 4.11 says. The mission of the church is for all the saints to go out and make the disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Spirit, teaching them who the nations to observe all that Jesus commanded the disciples. That's a huge thing. So you have purpose, the why, which is to equip the saints for the work of service, to reach the goal of building up the body so that we can become the mature body to meet the standard of Christ, in order to fulfill the mission of making disciples of all nations.
Speaker 1:
The church can't fulfill its mission until it first fulfills its purpose. Purpose is inward facing, mission is outward facing the purpose that the church must first fulfill is for the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and the teachers to equip the saints that would be the remainder of the disciples to minister to the rest of the world. Until that happens, trying to fulfill the mission of making disciples of people, let alone nations, is like putting the cart before the horse. We, the church, must first clean our own house, and that's a reference to 1 Peter, 4, verse 17. Once we have our house clean, then we must start working to fulfill our purpose, which is to teach our people how to minister to the outside world, which would include how to minister all the signs and wonders we hear about in Scripture, all the signs and wonders we hear about in scripture. Signs and wonders such as healing the blind, making the deaf hear, healing disabled persons so that they can walk again, exercising demons from people, healing the sick and the infirmed and those who are tormented by their own internal mental health, and a lot of other signs and wonders that we're supposed to be teaching our people how to do when the church can get itself clean, which requires that the church body that's, you and me and all the rest of us who are followers of Jesus and everyone we know to go through inner healing with Jesus. Then we can turn outwards and start healing the rest of the world. And keep in mind this is not a once and done. This is an ongoing person-by-person effort.
Speaker 1:
We often do with our definition of the church what we do with our definition of God. We depersonalize it, we put it out there. The church is the pastor, the church are the people who get paid to run the church. The church is a building, it's a location. That's who we've said the church is. And I'm just a participant, right, I'm just a member. Whether we consciously think of it that way or not, that's the reality that we put on display.
Speaker 1:
The church focuses too much on preaching messages to its congregation and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, by the way, but from my experience, the messages that I typically hear does little to equip the congregation to minister to the rest of the world around them. The people who stand at the front of the church are not to be put on a pedestal. They are the people who are supposed to be teaching and equipping the rest of the congregation on how to minister Jesus to others. Yes, the pastors are supposed to take care of the flock that they are in charge of. But more than that, there are people within the congregation who are called as apostles and prophets and evangelists, and pastors and teachers, who are supposed to be equipping the rest of the disciples within the congregation to go out and do the ministering. The pastor of a church isn't supposed to do that alone or to just the congregation. The whole of the body is supposed to be involved.
Speaker 1:
Wow, do we have this backwards, or what? Wow, do we have this backwards, or what? We look at our pastors and our preachers, our teachers and our ministers and our priests as the ones who are supposed to minister to all the world. Excuse me, but how in the hell is such a small portion of our population supposed to do that much ministering when there are 8.1 billion people and counting on this earth today? Let's break this down into some numbers just to give some perspective here. And you tell me if our Western churches are set up to handle the work of Jesus' ministry, let alone Christian?
Speaker 1:
Christian churches around the world, there are approximately 415,656 Catholic priests and there are approximately 422,000 Protestant ministers today. That's just in the Christian realms. That's 838,000 ministers who are supposed to minister to 8.1 billion people on this planet as of today. Keep in mind, these are just estimates, but even the estimates are astronomical.
Speaker 1:
To put this in perspective, that means for every priest minister, reverend pastor, preacher means for every priest minister, reverend pastor, preacher, etc. They have to intimately minister to 9,546 people every day. Now imagine you were a priest or a minister or a pastor and now think about the makeup of the US and I realize that there are populated places like New York City and Miami and San Diego, san Francisco and Los Angeles, and then there are more rural areas like Butte, montana, destin, florida, port Clinton, ohio, bel Air, michigan, etc. So I understand that the population is not equally distributed, but still look at the overall numbers. If you spread this out evenly, could you imagine if you were a pastor who had to intimately be involved in the lives of 9,546 people every day? How would that work? Right?
