Meet Brooke Roberts, the dynamic co-founder and co-CEO of Sharesies, who joins us to share her journey from a curious child to a fintech innovator. Her story is a vibrant illustration of breaking the norms with her cofounders and crafting a platform that's reshaping how we approach investing and wealth protection.
Brooke discusses the emotional landscape of helming a startup, from the thrill of innovation to the stark realities of corporate restructuring. She opens up about the delicate balance founders must maintain between fostering personal well-being and pursuing professional growth.
One takeaway here is that sometimes, the most impactful business moves are made when we give ourselves permission to step back and recharge.
You can connect with Brooke via LinkedIn and check out Sharesies.
Meet Brooke Roberts, the dynamic co-founder and co-CEO of Sharesies, who joins us to share her journey from a curious child to a fintech innovator. Her story is a vibrant illustration of breaking the norms with her cofounders and crafting a platform that's reshaping how we approach investing and wealth protection.
Brooke discusses the emotional landscape of helming a startup, from the thrill of innovation to the stark realities of corporate restructuring. She opens up about the delicate balance founders must maintain between fostering personal well-being and pursuing professional growth.
One takeaway here is that sometimes, the most impactful business moves are made when we give ourselves permission to step back and recharge.
You can connect with Brooke via LinkedIn and check out Sharesies.
If there's a will, there's a way, and I always think that way and I think we're just lucky to be alive. So making the most of that, I think, is quite important.
Speaker 2:Brooke is the co-founder, co-CEO and director of Sharesies.
Speaker 1:We're a place where you can develop wealth through investing. Creating wealth is also having access and opportunities to develop wealth, but also making sure you can protect that wealth too, and so we're starting to go into that space. Health is such wealth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great.
Speaker 1:Most important in a lot of ways and I think if you're well, your business will be well. I used to think business was like an ultra marathon, but now I look at it more as like a series of sprints. There's got to be space for breast recovery to then go boom, you know, and sprint fit again.
Speaker 2:Hey everybody, it's Greg Sheehan. Welcome to my podcast, where you will hear from a range of guests, including those from the startup world and those that have had incredibly interesting lives and some stories to tell. I would really appreciate it if you could hit the follow button and share this amongst your friends, but, as you know, time is limited, so let's get on with it and hear from our next guest. My guest today is Brooke Roberts. Brooke is the co-founder, co-ceo and director of Sharesies. I've known Brooke for a few years now and, in fact, I remember when her and her co-founding team were in the very earliest stages. She won't remember this, but we had a bit of a meeting up in the back of, I think, te Arawa or somewhere like that, just as these guys were getting started and I think they were looking for directors, and I don't think I made the cut, which was good for Sharesies, because they have done so so well. Hey, brooke, welcome to the show. It is so cool to have you.
Speaker 1:Oh hey, thank you so much for having us. Yeah, sorry about that Interesting start, but I think I knew you, maybe from zero days too, like you're in the ecosystem?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and look, I think that's probably a good place to start. I'd love to understand a little bit about your origin story Not so much Shazzy's at this stage, but you Did you grow up always wanting to be an entrepreneur and getting involved in tech and being a founder. What was that early origin story for you?
Speaker 1:I always arched to my own drumbeat, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:It's so funny the amount of people who have this stereotype of the type of person I was and I tell them who I really was as a child and they're're like what? Like I was on Daily Report as a kid, you know I'd had to go home with my little 3B1 notebook and have a ranking out of one to five on how well I was that day, with a comment and you know from the teacher, and then my parents had to sign it. Like I was just and it wasn't that I was naughty, I just was super hyperactive that I found it really hard to kind of sit still and I found repetitive learning really boring. I was like we learned it yesterday next. So I think I was kind of hard to tame but I always, like, marched my own drumbeat. I guess I always kind of like to try things out and experiment and I was always intrigued on how value was created and so, yeah, started businesses when I was young and loved it, learned heaps and continue to today what was fashion avenue?
Speaker 2:I saw that on your LinkedIn profile from about 20 years ago aside from a terrible name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that in a la mode. No great great work there, brooke. I was at school and I saw this really interesting opportunity, actually after a discussion with my mum but I got a scholarship to go to this boarding school and it was in quite a wealthy area and I was on an academic scholarship there. Life changed a bit in terms of being naughty, I guess, and I noticed there was like heaps of wealth, heaps of women that really prided themselves on their appearance, and there's all these retailers that you know had designer clothing and I was like I wonder if there's a way to pull this together.
Speaker 1:I started to get insights a little bit into the community and how these like retailers were competitive and stuff. And so I went to my teacher and I was like, hey, I want to start a business. I think running fashion events I wanted to be in fashion at this time could be really cool. And she's like oh yeah, well, there's this thing called Young Enterprise. So I signed up to that, got some mates in, we ran these fashion shows, made sweet profit and learned a bunch too, and then did it again the next year. So that was really cool in terms of collaborating and bringing these people that were naturally competitors together for a bigger cause and then, yeah, having people on their fashion journey. But yeah, that was one random thing I did.
Speaker 2:Young Enterprise. Big shout out to you guys, because Brooke is not the first person who I have had on the show who has basically touted the Young Enterprise scheme as being a key part of their early founder journey. So really interesting that even when we're talking to high school kids around enterprise and founding companies that they go on and start companies like Sharesies, which is a really nice way of kind of segwaying across to that founding story. So I know you've told the story a few times so we won't sort of dwell on those earliest days too much. But what is the starting story for Sharesies?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's six of us that co-founded Sharesies. So there's so many different stories, in a way of like how that kind of came to be from different people's perspectives, but from mine, I knew I wanted to start a business. I knew I wanted to be in the financial services fintech space. I knew there was heaps of opportunity here and I was toying with an idea with Leighton, richard and Martin, who are also co-founders of Sharesies. And then we got connected with Sonia and Ben, who had an idea too, and we decided, hey, let's come together. And their idea was about making investing more accessible and we could invest $50 over, you know, at a time.
Speaker 1:And Leighton, who was in our team, he started an investment club when he was 17, putting 50 bucks away each week with a bunch of his mates 13 of them and it was like, well, you can, but it's like, how do we make that on scale? How do we make investing more accessible with, you know, millennials spending all their money on smash avocado and that's why they couldn't get into houses? That was what we were told at the time, you know, seeing if people wanted to be an investor, if they thought they were, and how Kiwis ever played into that and really those conversations have founded the vision that we have for Sharesies. That you know, literally it feels like we're still on day one on seven years in we're still creating that. You know there's still so much ahead of us to be able to fulfill the vision that we have.
Speaker 2:And we'll get into some of the stories, no doubt along the way. But what is Sharesies now Like? What would you describe Sharesies to be for people out there, because I know it's so much more than what it was when you first started.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, when we first started, it was six investment options, and then we you know that ballooned out when we provided access to the New Zealand Stock Exchange and the Australian Stock Exchange and the US Exchanges, to over 8,000 options, and really what we are now is we're a wealth app. We're a place where you can develop wealth through investing. We've got savings accounts too Uncle Save and then also KiwiSaver, and we'll be soon offering protecting your investment. So creating wealth is also having, you know, having access and opportunities to develop wealth, but also making sure you can protect that wealth too, and so we're starting to go into that space. So we're really building out a full wealth app. You can get us in the app stores now. You know we started just with a web app that we're really building out that full wealth app experience for people. So people can you know when they come to Sharesies, we want them to be growing wealth and protecting it too.
Speaker 1:And then we also have this other part of Sharesies is as we grew, we started to notice heaps of areas where, you know, everyday investors were locked out of or didn't have the same opportunity as big institutional investors. You know that don't get to go and sit in boardrooms and hear the CEO and the directors speak about their company and things like that we're like. We want to change that. We want to make sure, you know, that everyday investors or retail investors get access to those same opportunities. So we've started partnering closer with companies, helping companies, whether they're listed or not, helping them manage their shareholder communications and communicating better with their shareholders and understanding their shareholders more, and also helping those companies share the value that they create by giving their staff shares in the company and having that as part of, you know, an employee's remuneration. So we partner with companies to support them and make that a really great experience too.
Speaker 2:And you've just recently made an announcement that you've partnered with Fonterra and to give listeners who are outside of New Zealand's bubble a little bit of context, fonterra is is our large dairy cooperative. Dairy in New Zealand is a big part of our export industry earnings, and is Fonterra a part of what you just sort of described in that sense, or is that something a little different?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's a bit of both actually. So, yeah, it's fantastic to be partnered with New Zealand's largest company. The interesting thing about Fonterra is that their shareholders are the farmers, the dairy farmers, and so now or soon, in a couple of months, all the dairy farmers in New Zealand that are part of the Fonterra cooperative. They will be using Sharesies to manage and view the shares that they have in Fonterra. So that's really exciting in terms of making sure that they have, yeah, that better communication and better access to and more, you know, digital access to being able to manage their holdings in that company. But we also do do staff share schemes and things like that with Fonterra too.
Speaker 2:So it's a super big company and to give people a sense of size and scale and to the extent that you feel comfortable sharing, just take us through some of the sort of metrics, like in terms of staff numbers and things like that, or things that you're prepared to share around, how big Sharesies is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so with Sharesies, we currently support around 20% of the New Zealand stock exchange with Sharesies Open and Staff Share schemes and we also support over 500 companies that aren't listed on the stock exchange across New Zealand and Australia and in terms of number of employees, it's around probably around 20,000 employees across Australia and New Zealand we're supporting with managing their staff shares and the shares that they own and the companies that they work in and create value in and, yeah, around 650 to 700,000 investors and kind of stakeholders in that too.
Speaker 2:So that's a huge number and that's a really impressive result. In seven years you jumped across and set up operations in Australia I think sort of 2020, something like that so you're operating both sides of the Tasman. Now what have you discovered about doing business in Australia versus doing business in New Zealand? In and around financial markets? What are the key things that you find are different or more challenging or easier that maybe you didn't necessarily expect?
Speaker 1:I think, on the similarities at a really high level the barriers that we saw here that were preventing people from being able to develop wealth or grow wealth, and the barriers that companies had in terms of communicating with their shareholders and sharing the value with staff. They are there and they're quite similar. Even though the economy has a few different levers or situations, it's in there's still quite a lot of similarity, which is really interesting and we we find that. But there are a lot of nuance too, which we've learned, and I think for us, we know it's quite important to be on the ground so that we have a team there, and when we first set up, leighton and I moved our family there and we were locked down in Australia while we were getting off the ground, and next month Sonia will be moving over there for a couple of months and then Leighton and I will.
Speaker 1:Being on the ground is really important, and we've just had a key change there too, where we've just migrated onto our own Australian financial services license and this enables us to do a lot more than what we were doing when we were operating under somebody else's, from a marketing perspective and a bunch of things. So that's quite exciting to now go over there, now that we've got this license, and make the most of it. So, yeah, keep learning really. I mean, as we learn about the market here in Aotearoa continuously, we do in Australia too.
Speaker 2:It's super interesting, isn't it? There was an investment banker was telling me in Sydney three or four months back now, and this really blew me away that Australia is the third largest and not on a per capita base, just third largest financial market in the world, now behind number one being the US. And then he made me guess who number two was and I won't put you on the spot. But number two blew me out of the water. Apparently it's Lichtenstein, but who knew? And then Australia is number three. So it's a big market and with what you've done in New Zealand, I'm excited to see what Cheezys can offer in Australia Now these days. You've got an ownership, you've got TradeMe on the cap table and you form that partnership and I don't want to get you into trouble with the TradeMe bosses. But how does that work and what could people expect from doing similar sorts of partnerships with larger organisations? Let's say they're running a startup and they get involved with a larger corporate business. How does that?
Speaker 2:shape up for you guys.
Speaker 1:So, as Jesus has scaled, we've needed capital, you know, money invested in us so that we could grow, and that's really important. And when we early on we knew that trust is going to be crucial for us success, you know, for people to we're the place where the majority of people's wealth will be how do we make sure that they know that they can trust us and that we've got the right systems in place? And obviously there's a lot in terms of being a highly regulated business and financial services. There's great regulation there and oversight and auditing and all of that. But Trade Me, when they invested in us, was, and likely still is, the most loved and trusted brand in Aotearoa, high up there. So having them invest was a real validator in terms of well, if they've looked into us you know this is early on they came in right. Then that's got to be, there's got to be something there in terms of that credibility side and also that trust factor kind of being shared. So that was really valuable.
Speaker 1:I think when you're looking at going into, you know, a strategic partnership or strategic investor, really being clear on what you're wanting out of that relationship and what you're not Like, it was really clear for us that they would be as supportive as needed, but leave us to do our own thing too.
Speaker 1:You know, and that's honestly how the relationship has been they're really supportive. You know, early on I'd get so much email templates and all this stuff that's just so helpful for us from recruiting and as we're scaling. You know, they just had all of this stuff that we could lift and shift and it was fantastic to have that insight. And then now, you know, just to have conversations around business and how things are going and get, you know, leverage their experience is awesome, but really they leave us to run this ship, which is awesome too. You know that we're and we have John McDonald, who is an independent director, on the Sharesies board, who was the CEO at Trade Me for years. So, yeah, we get to leverage a lot of their insights. As you know, an incredible tech story here in Aotearoa. So, yeah, it's been a fantastic relationship to have.
Speaker 2:And just for a bit of context for those listening outside of New Zealand. So Trade Me is essentially the eBay equivalent here in New Zealand and, as Brooke perfectly put it, we call in New Zealand. We call New Zealand Aotearoa, which is the Maori word for the country that we live in, which is pretty cool. So startups are hard, brooke. They're really, really tough. What's the toughest thing that you think you've had to endure in this sharesies journey so far that you're willing to share?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think this one's obvious but also super difficult, because I'm not the most vulnerable person in the situation, or the one that actually is the most impacted, you know, which is when you get into that position where you need to make redundancies and that was over a year ago there's a change in the economy. There was longer lag in terms of things that we thought we'd be able to deliver or get licenses for than it took and that really put an impact on our business at that time, and so we needed to restructure Sharesies and that was, yeah, definitely the most difficult time. And that's, yeah, a year and a half-ish ago now just over a year. And, yeah, we've had a massive turnaround and really want to make sure that everybody that was here that isn't now gets a lot of that benefit through being a shareholder in time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an interesting one, I think, for people that have been through a restructuring but they've never necessarily been the people making the decisions.
Speaker 2:To have to take your headcount out or people that are not necessarily the ones actually doing the work, to, you know, tell people that they're not going to have a role after a certain time.
Speaker 2:I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding as to what it's like. It's incredibly tough for those making the decisions and, obviously, the people that are impacted directly as well. And I remember, actually I was at Nike years ago and we had to make a ton of people redundant and it was really really tough and the people making the decisions and those that were affecting the change were crying and, you know, had to do it privately because they didn't want the rest of the team to see it. So it was really really tough. So, yeah, thank you for sharing that, because I think it is it's hard on everybody and actually testament to you and the team and the way you handled it, because feedback from those that did happen to to lose their role through the restructuring just speaks so highly of Sharesies. So, and that's a testament to you guys as leaders and the culture that you've built.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a different. You know, at that time there were a lot of everybody got placed into roles pretty quickly. I had CEOs calling me up saying how can I, you know, take those people, you know, and we would do what we could to make sure that they, you know, were streamlined and got straight to interviews with other companies. We, you know, did it as much as we could at that time and some people are really flourishing now too, which is cool.
Speaker 2:Absolutely and equally. On the flip side, there's been some things that you've experienced in the last seven years. We've made a decision and it's worked out really really well. Can you sort of identify something that you've done in the last few years where you think that was such a good decision and it's just served Sharesies really really well?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think actually when we were doing that restructure stuff, we weren't going we need to get this headcount out of whatever, like how does Sharesies need to be structured for us to to grow from here too? And something that I think a decision we made in terms of how Sharesies is organized has been really, really beneficial, and that is we now have four businesses within Sharesies. So you've got Invest and Save, subvention and Funds, australia and Company Partnerships, and then they've got the teams and the resources, I guess, too, that they need in order to make their businesses hum. And just the reason why I think that's working so well is because people now are way closer to the context. You know, you've got design, tech, marketing, the team's like really clear on the context that drives that business and closer to the P&Ls of it too, so really being able to make purpose and profit decisions a lot closer to the context and also closer to the customer, and I think that has been really powerful.
Speaker 2:So implementing that type of matrix structure, and you're somebody who really is and I hate this phrase, but I can't think of a better one You're the poster child for so many founders. Yeah, you might not like it, it's that you are held up and you are esteemed as somebody who is on is on the founder journey. You're building an iconic company and we all know how tough that is, and possibly also for females as well, and for women to look at and go hey, look at what brooke's doing. I want to be like brooke. Do you feel the pressure of that? Is that something that sits easily with you? Or you know how does that feel for you?
Speaker 1:uh, yeah, it's weird. I don't think that's like. I'm like, nah, you nah, you know, like I mean I look at my co-founders and I hold them in esteem.
Speaker 1:You know there's, you know, sonia and Aidan and Martin and Richard and all the people we work with, and there's so many incredible entrepreneurs out there I've met on my journey that I learned from, and incredible peers and support. So so, you know, I'm really stoked that there is more founder representation and that we are all supporting each other and, you know, doing as much as we can to pull down that tool poppy kind of old school mentality. But I don't ever think that way of this. I'm a human, I'm flawed, you know.
Speaker 2:And do people. So people automatically assume that you never feel you know vulnerable, that you never feel like an imposter. Do you ever feel you know vulnerable, that you never feel like an imposter? Do you ever feel vulnerable? Do you ever have that sort of 2am 3am wake up, not driven by children, but that just keeps you awake and you feel kind of nervous and vulnerable about something.
Speaker 1:I heard this interesting saying and I so believe it, like an entrepreneur is someone with innate confidence, with perpetual belief that they may be wrong, and that is fascinating to me, like, yeah, or you're like what you know, like you've got a belief and you're strong and you have, like, well, the information I've got today, this is the right way, but there might be information I don't know. You know, and I think that is like a really cool way of thinking in a way too, and I do really resonate with that because I think you're able to see a vision and create a future and plow that, but also being really receptive to the environment you're in at the moment, new information coming in and how that needs to pivot, how you approach something or the speed of it. So, yeah, that's interesting and I think every founder I've ever met has is just authentic, typically, and means you know they.
Speaker 1:There's times where everything is humming and there's times when it's not. And, yeah, like I sometimes sleep really well and sometimes I don't. And often and sometimes the times when I don't sleep well, it's either two-folded one. There's something that I haven't been able to articulate yet, but it's like a feeling and I'm trying to figure out how to articulate or what's kind of why you know and if that is important or if I've got the right information. And another is when something feels massive and you're like okay, have I you know? Have I really thought this through? Is this the right decision, you know? And yeah, I percolate and I've got two children too, so my life's a complete blur in that regard also.
Speaker 2:Exactly, hence the sleep deprivation.
Speaker 2:It's interesting that you sort of sense, something, but you haven't necessarily been able to articulate in your own mind. But you just know there's something not quite right. There's like a gentle hum in the background. That's not quite right and, as a founder, your intuition is leading you to think what is it that's troubling me? And therefore go on and kind of sniff that out.
Speaker 2:We talk often as people in commercial worlds about, you know, strengths and weaknesses and those sorts of things, and I was actually having a discussion with somebody on here the other day about whether you should work on your weaknesses or just absolutely you know, screw, that you should double down on your weaknesses. Or just absolutely you know, screw, that you should double down on your strengths. You're a Kiwi, so I know you're going to be sort of naturally a little bit coy about this, but what would you think would be your key superpower and strength? That makes a difference to how you go about doing what you do at Sharesies. For those who can't see Brooke, she's really scratching her head, wondering what that might be, which is, I guess, a testament to it's interesting. She's certainly not jumping with. You know.
Speaker 1:Here's 10 of my key strengths yeah, I don't know what that, what that says about me, but there's a few founders that get together every Friday online and we've done it ever since, during COVID actually, when we're in lockdowns, and we get together every Friday and discuss things and Claudia Baden helps run it. And the last one, which is super uncomfortable, when you're in the hot seat there's about 10 or so of us on the call. We went around and talked about everybody's superpower, so love sharing everybody else's superpower. And it came to me. I was like sweaty palm, like I'm just going to either laugh or cry through this. You know like it's so awkward, but so I guess I could like reason, you know, share the types of things they were saying. Please, one thing I I have a lot of energy, and I don't know why, and I I never knew it was so unique until everyone keeps like spitting that back at me.
Speaker 1:But I I have a lot of energy and I always have, but, and when it's channeled in the right direction, it can be quite powerful, I think. So that's one. I love thinking slow and fast, okay, I love deep think and I love fast action too. So I think that's something that makes me, you know, like an okay operator and I've I've learned a lot around the importance of communication too and keeping people in the loop and making sure. That kind of EQ side of things is something I've learned, I'd say, and that's something that people think I'm pretty good at too. I'm quite analytical, but I don't come across that way sometimes. But I, like you know, I studied finance. I just love getting right into things and I, yeah, I just have fun, I have just so much fun Like there's into things and I, yeah, I just have fun, I have so much fun like this. It's such a privilege to be able to create shares and work with the people I get to on a daily basis, like I'm just so lucky and I just love.
Speaker 2:It feels really purpose aligned it's really interesting because I think if, if the company's success was some sort of mathematical algorithm or calculus and you're able to look at founder energy as a factor and you've got strong energy, it's a big factor and then make effective decisions by using data and your ability to kind of analyze things you can see why?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's right, it's just simply maths, it's just maths.
Speaker 2:no, I think I thank you for sharing that, because I think I think those are really cool and I think energy is just absolutely critical for founders. If they're not feeling it, they need to work on what it is that's draining it and be able to bring the energy back into the mix. What about things that inspire you, whether they are resources, things you read, whether it's music or going for a you mentioned going for a surf before we jumped on the podcast what is it that inspires you and that kind of refills your tank?
Speaker 1:yeah, I've got a six and a four year old and they are just so fun and inspiring and the questions they ask me make me realize I've got so much to learn still, you know, like really detailed, interesting, intrinsic questions about the world around us and I just so that's really inspiring and and it's really fun, um, playing with them and surfing is something that's new to me since, yeah, like last year I really got into it and now I'm addicted. I was out there this morning and you know I'll probably go out after this because it's a good day. That's an also an interesting, you know, kind of love, because it's surfs there sometimes. Sometimes it's not, you know, and I think you know being able to make the most of that and I love spontaneous, being spontaneous, so it kind of plays into that quite well.
Speaker 1:I just came back from Kurereo Pakehi 2024, which was a te reo kind of immersion a few days, and I'm really inspired by the people there and the people I get to connect with and being on this thrill journey and learning more about Te Ao Māori. It is very inspiring and, especially as you think, through business and the impact of it and, yeah, the people I get to work with every day, just challenge my thinking or, yeah, just really fun to be creating shizzies with. So, yeah, there's heaps of places to get inspiration.
Speaker 2:I love that, and it's weird that there's so much of a correlation, a strong correlation, between founders and surfers.
Speaker 2:Now, I don't know whether it's because surfing is a complete antidote, you know, to startup life, because when you're on the waves and you're on the water, you can't really think about much else than the next wave, and you're either going to get smashed by it or you're going to ride it. So, yeah, it's super interesting to kind of see that, and it's super interesting to kind of see that, and it's beautiful getting out into nature, right, so it's, it's so cool. And what about a mantra or a philosophy? Is there something that you either you were taught as a kid or something that you really live by? That kind of propels you?
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure my poppy used to say this, but if he didn't say it, it's the way that I felt like he lived, which is like if there's a will, there's a way, and I always think that way and I think we're just lucky to be alive. So making the most of that, I think, is quite important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if there is something and there's something that needs to be done, you'll find out how to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's pretty powerful. And what would you say you've learned as you've gone through this journey over the last seven years, and that you would consider things that certainly were learnings for you and, no doubt, as you share them, other founders listening will think oh, that's so cool, it's actually a really good idea, it's a good tip. As a founder, are there key things that maybe you've kind of picked up along the way and you impart to others?
Speaker 1:maybe you've kind of picked up along the way and you impart to others.
Speaker 1:I don't know if this is demotivating or not, but I think ever since I quit sports working full-time and went, you know, full into sharesies a few months later I was pregnant and so I've been raising a family while creating sharesies the last, you know, six, seven years.
Speaker 1:And I think I learned at a point, especially maybe after my second child too. Actually, the first was I actually to lower my expectations on myself and on, sometimes, others around me, like in a healthy way, you know, like not too much, like I think the standard you walk past is standard you accept still. So I think that's really important, but like, does it really matter? And then that helped me kind of prioritize and feel more spacious in time, in a way where you know it doesn't really matter if I don't reply to an email in a certain amount of time, you know, but it does matter that I'm like responsive and slack to our team. You know I don't want to be holding things up with them. So I think, and it doesn't really matter if I spend a couple of hours on it in the morning just playing with my children, but it does matter that I deliver, and if I say I'm going to do something, I do it.
Speaker 1:You know, and I think it's just like the fluidity in that and you know, again back to the joy, like really doing this too so that we can have a joyful life and, can you know, have times for things. And, yes, there'll be times where you're sprinting and things are all tricky and you're like, but you look back and that's where your biggest learnings and the coolest stories some ways come out of those really challenging times. So, yeah, being able to ride the waves and set healthy prioritizations, lowering expectations, can sometimes be part of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's interesting because I think a lot of founders sometimes feel guilty if they're not fully present in their startup and they're let's say, they are out for a surf, or they're out for a run, or they're walking, or they're just taking some time out to spend time with their kids or whatever and they feel a little bit guilty. They know they need to be putting some fuel back in their own tanks, but they feel guilty that they're not working on the business because it might be a Thursday afternoon at 3 o'clock or something like that. Yet the reality is, the best thing a founder can do is to make really good decisions, and it's those decisions that only come along once every month or so or every couple of months or even every year, those really big decisions that, when they're made well, they make a huge difference on the business. And to make them well, the founders need to be free, to be able to think, to be able to percolate on something, to ruminate, to dream.
Speaker 1:So it's sort of super interesting that we put pressure on ourselves as founders to keep working when, in actual fact, actually making the best decisions sometimes comes down to getting our head out of the game and going for a surf, or going for a run or whatever and we're making health is such well, yeah, yeah, most important a lot of ways and I think if you're well, you know your business will be well, and I think that I used to think business was like an ultra marathon, but now I look at it more as like a series of sprints. There's got to be space for rest, recovery, get that, you know, to then go boom and be, you know, sprint, fit again. So I think incorporating that into your habits and honestly I wasn't that good at it at the start, especially with young kids and the opportunity cost of time not spent with them felt hectic and hard. But ever since last year, I put in really good practices around exercise and, yeah, I make better decisions. I feel more space than time, somehow, you know, and I'm probably operating a lot better.
Speaker 2:Now, I know you have covered this off in other interviews, other podcasts, et cetera, but there will be people who haven't heard the story. So you co-share the CEO role and that is, I think, my understanding. You co-share it with two others, so there's three of you that share that role, three EOs the three EOs which I'd never seen until I was doing research. So it's actually pretty cool Tips for others that are thinking about this. Is it, you know? Is it something that you'd easily do again?
Speaker 1:It's super weird when you start up and if one of you, you know you've got multiple founders and one of you is a CEO and you notice the kind of opportunities that come to them or people who expect them to be in a room for the decisions, and things like that, and that it's just this like weird societal structure kind of put on that, where actually you're all in there doing the same amount of work, working really hard, you know, and so there's something kind of weird, and we've experienced both at she's Ears and I really love that 3EO model because it means that Leighton, sonia and I like we're interchangeable in some ways, which is great.
Speaker 1:You know, if there's a media opportunity or if there's speaking opportunity or if there's you know somebody who needs something at Sharesies, pick one of us and you've got what you need, and then we can have lighter shoulders, we can share the load. You know, like I've got these shared consciousness to talk about Sharesies and our strategy and where we're going and the problems Like it's not all on my shoulders or all on theirs, like we've got that amongst ourselves, but also the wider other founders too, and that really enables you to be set up for the series of sprints and be in it for the long haul too. So I think you'll know if it'll work for you and your startup and if anybody wants to chat about it with me. You know, happy as heavy yarn, but for us, we implemented it as a trial for six months. It worked really well and we've been doing it for three and a half years now and, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2:And what about being married to one of your co-CEOs?
Speaker 1:as well.
Speaker 2:You probably at times feel like you're married to Sonia as well, but I actually had James Fuller on the show sometime back now and he was saying obviously his wife is the COO at Henry and he said I can't imagine doing it any other way. Like, start-ups are so hard that to be able to go home and share the burdens with somebody who's got contextual knowledge of exactly what you're talking about is the superpower. How do you view that? Is it easy? Are you able to switch off, switch on, et cetera?
Speaker 1:It's the exact same, like it's what he said. I was like I can't, even I can't. I don't know how it would have worked if we both weren't in it. You know Like it would have been quite it'd be harder. I would have thought, like that shared understanding, you know, helps us even with the care side of things, like, yep, cool, you need to be there for that, I'll get the kids or I need to be here. You know, like being able to kind of share that and understand what's more important is really helpful. Yeah, and that ability to have that shared consciousness on things is really great too. And, you know, challenge each other's thinking and I guess you're pretty, you know you can be pretty frank with each other, which is also great, you know, like just straight up feedback. We kind of both love that, so it's quite helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, as I said before, you've done a lot of media and you and you speak at events constantly, but is there a question that you haven't been asked that you would? You would love it if somebody would ask you that question or something that you would want to share if asked.
Speaker 1:I just think, like when you said something that founders might want to know is like sometimes, when you're starting a company, you feel like you're starting from square one, like you're creating it all, like you know like templates and where to go, and oh, you know, like just reach out to other founders honestly, like they will help you straight away or, you know, can help with the basic templates or whatever you know, like you don't have to go it alone, like there's definitely awesome support out there, and I think it's really important, if you don't have co-founders either, to build a bit of a support network, because it takes a lot of grit and resilience. You'll be doing really hard work and so having that support around you is really really crucial and, honestly, none of us, I don't think, could do what we're doing without really strong support.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thank you for saying that, because I often say that doing a startup is the hardest part of the commercial world. You know, it's like a different sport from standard commerce, like it's really, really, really challenging and in fact, it's really hard. So if anybody is considering doing a startup, really think about this, because fact it's really hard. So if anybody is considering doing a startup, really think about this, because it's going to be the toughest thing you'll probably ever do. So you obviously do catch up a lot with other founders. You've got this group on a Friday, do dinners and things like that. Do you find hanging out with founders fills your bucket or do you get drained by it because people have got other, you know other problems that they want shared, I mean. But net-net, it's a win for you.
Speaker 1:Oh, I think, yeah, I think it's fantastic, kind of normalises situations. We can support each other. It's great, I think you know, anyway, even if you're working in a company, having peer support is really important. Like I was speaking to this large company recently and it was like light bulbs for them, like, oh, I don't have to have all the answers, I could just ask other people here. I was like, of course you can. Like, you know, nobody expects you to have all the answers and there's this weird pressure I think we put on ourselves of being perfect or something. It's like actually perfect is getting it like done is better than perfect, you know.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, just no, it's very it's, it's super, super. Brooke, I will put connection links to you and Sharesies in the show notes so that if people do want to reach out to you or find out a little bit more about Sharesies, they can do so. I really, really want to thank you not only for the time you've given today, but just also the role that you play in the ecosystem at Aotearoa just around, the role you play for founders in general female founders, those people who are just starting out and also providing a bit of inspiration and impetus for those that have actually been doing it for a while. So you play a really key role there and you're super humble, you're super nice and kind, but you're just crazy smart. So well done to you and the broader Sharesies team for everything you do, and I'm so excited to see where you guys go in the coming years.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much. Appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so really appreciate your time. Thank you so much, Brooke.