How Can Green Startups Make Money?

Superstar climber Sasha DiGiulian and Ethiopian technologist Kidus Asfaw have one big thing in common: both are entrepreneurs with a focus on sustainability and ethical products. Every day they face the challenge of making money with their green startups, while also helping to solve some of the big environmental issues of our time. 

In this episode of On Thin Ice, a podcast by Iceworm Media in partnership with the Bally Peak Outlook Foundation, they share their respective experiences and tips for aspiring founders and pioneers who want to create companies with a purpose.

Sasha is a climbing world champion, a professional first-ascender holding a series of records, book author, influencer and the founder of SEND bars, a vegan food company based in Colorado. Kidus is a Time Climate 100 entrepreneur who won many awards, helped UNICEF build schools from trash, and founded Kubik, a startup that turns plastic waste from Ethiopia’s high-altitude cities into low-carbon buildings. 

In North America, Africa and elsewhere, Sasha and Kidus have witnessed dramatic changes in the environment and the impact of pollution and urbanization on mountain landscapes. After explaining what prompted them to launch their ventures, the guests offer valuable insights into their industries.

Kidus talks about plastic waste–a hot topic also for the Bally Peak Outlook Foundation–the challenges of decarbonizing real-estate by moving away from cement, the crucial importance of factoring sustainability into the conceptual phase of your startup, and a key issue with the mindset of venture capitalists.

Sasha explains why natural, healthy foods are more expensive than highly processed, conventional ones, and how she developed her own vision for developing nutritional bars made with locally farmed ingredients, including adaptogens, benefitting health and athletic performance. She also looks back at her expedition to Alaska with a microplastics scientist, and updates us on her lobbying efforts in Washington, D.C., with the Explore Act and her other climate-related initiatives.

Join host Paolo Bosonin for an action-focused conversation about what it means to be a green entrepreneur, and some of the realities of launching and running a green business today.

On Thin Ice is produced in partnership with the Bally Peak Outlook Foundation.

Head to ballypeakoutlook.org/  to learn more about the foundation, which is on a mission to safeguard the world's fragile mountain habitats from the adverse effects of global warming and excessive tourism. 

Production credits: 

Original Music: Nadir Cassim

Editorial advisor: Dave Vetter

Graphic Design: Guillaume Ory

Video editing: Iceworm team

Would you like to suggest guests and projects that we should cover? Do you have feedback or questions? Email paolo@iceworm.media

Transcript

Speakers Paolo Bosonin Sasha DiGiulian Kidus Asfaw

00:00:05:23 - 00:00:08:06
You have both created businesses

00:00:08:06 - 00:00:12:21
that want to make our lives more sustainable and healthier.

00:00:12:23 - 00:00:15:20
So let me ask, are your respective companies

00:00:15:20 - 00:00:18:20
profitable right now?

00:00:18:20 - 00:00:19:14
No. 

00:00:19:14 - 00:00:20:08
Yes.

00:00:20:08 - 00:00:23:18
And are you confident that they will remain

00:00:23:18 - 00:00:27:12
or become profitable one day? Yes.

00:00:27:14 - 00:00:29:09
No.

00:00:32:04 - 00:00:35:00
Just come over to my company.

00:00:39:18 - 00:00:40:09
Welcome.

00:00:40:09 - 00:00:43:17
This is On Thin Ice, a podcast by Iceworm Media

00:00:43:17 - 00:00:46:13
in partnership with the Bally Peak Outlook Foundation.

00:00:47:12 - 00:00:51:11
We bring together the best athletes, scientists and innovators

00:00:51:13 - 00:00:54:19
to discuss concrete solutions for accelerating the transition

00:00:54:19 - 00:00:58:03
to a more sustainable way of living.

00:00:58:05 - 00:01:02:22
I'm Paolo Bosonin, and I'm just humbled to welcome our very impressive guests today.

00:01:03:00 - 00:01:05:00
Joining us from Boulder, Colorado

00:01:05:00 - 00:01:09:06
Sasha DiGiulian is one of the most recognizable names in climbing.

00:01:09:07 - 00:01:13:02
She first became a world champion at only 18 years old

00:01:13:04 - 00:01:17:14
and she has since collected a long list of first ascents and achievements.

00:01:17:16 - 00:01:19:00
Welcome to On Thin Ice, Sasha.

00:01:19:00 - 00:01:21:21
Thanks so much for having me today.

00:01:21:23 - 00:01:23:01
I saw you’re now

00:01:23:01 - 00:01:25:09
also competing in triathlon races.

00:01:25:10 - 00:01:28:18
But would you still introduce yourself as a climber?

00:01:28:19 - 00:01:29:18
Definitely.

00:01:29:18 - 00:01:33:22
I have not earned my pedigree as a triathlete yet.

00:01:34:00 - 00:01:38:00
Well, in any case, sports is just one of the many things you do.

00:01:38:02 - 00:01:41:22
You are a businesswoman, a writer, a film producer.

00:01:42:00 - 00:01:45:00
You've lobbied for climate action in Washington, D.C.

00:01:45:03 - 00:01:46:19
And I read that a few years ago,

00:01:46:19 - 00:01:51:00
you even designed the first climbing emoji.

00:01:51:02 - 00:01:52:13
Is that right?

00:01:52:13 - 00:01:55:08
Yeah, highlight of my career.

00:01:55:08 - 00:01:58:20
When you use an emoji and you put in Climber,

00:01:58:22 - 00:02:00:12
it's based off of my design.

00:02:00:12 - 00:02:03:20
So I'm happy that we can be recognized

00:02:04:01 - 00:02:07:23
by the emoji library as a sport as well.

00:02:08:00 - 00:02:09:12
That's quite an achievement.

00:02:09:12 - 00:02:13:14
And we have another multitalented entrepreneur on the podcast today:

00:02:13:15 - 00:02:16:22
Kidus Asfaw, calling in from Nairobi, Kenya, who has won

00:02:16:22 - 00:02:21:14
a number of awards with his startup Kubik. Kidus and his teams

00:02:21:14 - 00:02:26:19
transform plastic waste into bricks for building houses.

00:02:26:21 - 00:02:29:11
He had previously worked for UNICEF and the World Bank,

00:02:29:11 - 00:02:32:11
and he's a software engineer by training.

00:02:32:12 - 00:02:34:06
Thanks for joining us, Kidus.

00:02:34:06 - 00:02:36:05
Thanks for having me.

00:02:36:07 - 00:02:39:16
Let's jump straight into our Big question.

00:02:43:00 - 00:02:44:03
In today's economy,

00:02:44:03 - 00:02:48:08
many companies that want to produce and sell things in a more sustainable way

00:02:48:10 - 00:02:52:01
face higher costs than their conventional competitors.

00:02:52:03 - 00:02:56:06
As a result, the cost of greener goods is also higher for consumers.

00:02:56:08 - 00:02:59:15
Take electric cars that are more expensive than diesel ones.

00:02:59:17 - 00:03:03:16
Renewable energy that sells at a premium or, in the case of groceries,

00:03:03:22 - 00:03:07:04
foods labeled organic are more expensive

00:03:07:04 - 00:03:10:16
than intensively farmed or highly processed foods.

00:03:10:18 - 00:03:15:08
And those more conventional products often still dominate the market.

00:03:15:10 - 00:03:19:04
Sasha, you know this firsthand because among all your projects,

00:03:19:04 - 00:03:22:12
you are also the founder of SEND Bars,

00:03:22:14 - 00:03:25:14
a vegan food company based in Colorado.

00:03:25:17 - 00:03:30:06
Can you tell us about your company's philosophy and why is it so much harder

00:03:30:10 - 00:03:34:17
and more expensive to produce natural, healthy foods?

00:03:34:19 - 00:03:36:02
Yeah, absolutely.

00:03:36:02 - 00:03:39:12
As a company, one of our philosophies is

00:03:39:12 - 00:03:42:12
be good for you and be good for the planet

00:03:42:15 - 00:03:47:09
and finding our ingredients and sourcing them from farmers

00:03:47:11 - 00:03:51:18
from as local as we can is really important to us

00:03:51:18 - 00:03:55:19
because we want you to feel good with real food,

00:03:55:19 - 00:03:58:23
no preservatives, no natural flavorings,

00:03:58:23 - 00:04:04:03
which are just artificial additives that are unregulated and no refined sugar.

00:04:04:04 - 00:04:08:21
So for instance, our dates are sourced from a local farm that we work with

00:04:08:21 - 00:04:12:18
and have a great relationship with, and our fulfillment center,

00:04:12:18 - 00:04:18:08
our co-packer and our sustainable packaging solution company

00:04:18:08 - 00:04:22:04
are all within the radius of our Boulder, Colorado location.

00:04:22:04 - 00:04:24:00
But it is hard.

00:04:24:00 - 00:04:28:08
I mean, you definitely pay a premium for quality ingredients

00:04:28:08 - 00:04:31:19
and therefore with our margins, we

00:04:31:19 - 00:04:37:20
we have to be a sustainable, viable company, charge a little bit more

00:04:37:20 - 00:04:43:13
than what you may see of the preservative packed shelf,

00:04:43:13 - 00:04:46:21
stable food that you see on like

00:04:46:21 - 00:04:50:05
some of the other brands on the market.

00:04:50:07 - 00:04:53:03
But our goal is really to just make

00:04:53:03 - 00:04:57:09
eating healthy, clean food available and easy.

00:04:57:11 - 00:05:02:04
And why do you think there was a need today to create,

00:05:02:04 - 00:05:04:20
because you created this company just a couple of years ago,

00:05:04:20 - 00:05:05:21
if I'm not mistaken.

00:05:05:21 - 00:05:10:09
Why was there a need for healthier, better

00:05:10:09 - 00:05:14:17
nutritional bars for athletes in this case?

00:05:14:19 - 00:05:19:12
Yeah, we're just over a year old, so it's been an exciting time for us

00:05:19:14 - 00:05:22:21
and I always made my own bars in my blender

00:05:22:21 - 00:05:28:06
because there was nothing on the market that I could find, that if it was healthy.

00:05:28:08 - 00:05:29:23
tasted good.

00:05:29:23 - 00:05:35:22
And if it tasted good, it was just packed full of brown rice sirup

00:05:35:22 - 00:05:39:00
and different forms of refined sugar, packed

00:05:39:00 - 00:05:42:00
full of natural flavorings and preservatives.

00:05:42:00 - 00:05:46:23
And so I also wanted to have dark, leafy greens that I couldn't taste

00:05:47:00 - 00:05:51:02
but available in my bars for my big expeditions around the world

00:05:51:02 - 00:05:54:06
and adaptogens, which have really helped me

00:05:54:08 - 00:05:57:08
with my recovery, with my sport performance.

00:05:57:12 - 00:06:01:12
They're really incredible superfoods that we incorporate into our bars.

00:06:01:12 - 00:06:06:20
So after trying basically everything on the market, I'm pretty hard-pressed

00:06:06:20 - 00:06:08:18
not to find a bar that I haven't tried,

00:06:08:18 - 00:06:13:11
I decided to start my own company

00:06:13:13 - 00:06:20:03
and the idea is really to have real wholefood.

00:06:20:05 - 00:06:23:15
And I'm curious, Sasha, what made you decide

00:06:23:15 - 00:06:28:02
to become a food entrepreneur at this point in your career?

00:06:28:04 - 00:06:33:05
I've always been a health food knight since I was a teenager.

00:06:33:07 - 00:06:36:07
I was making my own bars, I actually registered our name

00:06:36:08 - 00:06:40:22
SEND Bars in 2012 when I was at my dorm at Columbia University

00:06:40:22 - 00:06:45:02
and making my bars and sending them out to my different professional

00:06:45:02 - 00:06:47:21
athlete friends and bringing them on my trips.

00:06:47:21 - 00:06:50:18
And it was something that I always wanted to do.

00:06:50:18 - 00:06:54:20
Then a couple of years ago, I had double hip reconstruction surgery.

00:06:54:20 - 00:06:58:01
I was out for my sport for nine months

00:06:58:01 - 00:07:01:13
and I had a lot of time to refine my purpose.

00:07:01:15 - 00:07:05:10
And this was just kind of something that was in my calling that I was like,

00:07:05:12 - 00:07:08:07
I feel too passionate about it

00:07:08:07 - 00:07:12:08
not to do it because it stayed with me for the last decade.

00:07:12:10 - 00:07:16:14
So I don't know anything about the CPG world,

00:07:16:14 - 00:07:20:19
and there's a lot that I'm going to have to learn along the way.

00:07:20:21 - 00:07:22:23
But let me just dive in and go for it

00:07:22:23 - 00:07:26:19
because it feels like something that I can't quiet.

00:07:26:21 - 00:07:30:06
And I think that when you have anything in life

00:07:30:06 - 00:07:34:23
that's like that very fervor of a passion that's like

00:07:35:00 - 00:07:40:03
you can't get rid of it, I think that you need to act on it.

00:07:40:08 - 00:07:43:06
Kidus, that's probably something you can relate with, right?

00:07:43:06 - 00:07:46:16
Before we look more into what your startup's doing,

00:07:46:18 - 00:07:50:00
basically I'd like to ask you the same question: on a personal level,

00:07:50:00 - 00:07:54:01
why did you decide to invest and dedicate so much of your time

00:07:54:03 - 00:07:59:02
to this huge, daunting task of building a green business?

00:07:59:04 - 00:08:00:08
So I grew up in a city.

00:08:00:08 - 00:08:03:21
I grew up in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia,

00:08:03:23 - 00:08:06:07
and I remember growing up it

00:08:06:07 - 00:08:11:03
being a fairly small city where everyone knew everyone

00:08:11:03 - 00:08:14:13
and I could walk outside and see mountains

00:08:14:13 - 00:08:17:13
all over me or all around me.

00:08:17:13 - 00:08:22:06
And over time, skyscrapers started to block that.

00:08:22:08 - 00:08:26:06
But the part that actually made it even daunting for me was the smog

00:08:26:06 - 00:08:31:04
that was covering this landscape and no longer for it to be seen.

00:08:31:06 - 00:08:34:08
And while on pictures, the skyscrapers

00:08:34:08 - 00:08:38:01
and the hustle and bustle looked really exciting,

00:08:38:03 - 00:08:39:07
being on the ground showed

00:08:39:07 - 00:08:43:22
how the effects of pollution, lack of waste management,

00:08:44:00 - 00:08:48:02
the unaffordability that comes with a densely

00:08:48:04 - 00:08:52:23
populated and urbanized city brings with it.

00:08:53:01 - 00:08:56:22
And later on in life, when I was working in the U.N.,

00:08:57:00 - 00:09:00:16
I had the opportunity of traveling to many other cities,

00:09:00:16 - 00:09:05:07
just like Addis Ababa, everywhere from Santiago to Yangon.

00:09:05:11 - 00:09:08:00
And that story continued to stick with me.

00:09:08:00 - 00:09:12:10
You know, low income countries aren't rural anymore.

00:09:12:11 - 00:09:15:07
They're actually metropolises.

00:09:15:07 - 00:09:18:07
And the plight of people

00:09:18:07 - 00:09:24:09
that can't afford a decent living involves having to face waste

00:09:24:11 - 00:09:27:20
and very meager types of living conditions.

00:09:27:22 - 00:09:31:01
So later on in my U.N.

00:09:31:01 - 00:09:34:22
career, I had an opportunity of being able to work on a project

00:09:35:00 - 00:09:39:01
that was able to convert plastic waste into bricks to make schools,

00:09:39:03 - 00:09:41:21
and my life turned into trash.

00:09:41:21 - 00:09:44:15
I became very fascinated by it.

00:09:44:15 - 00:09:48:00
And later on I started to really become fascinated

00:09:48:00 - 00:09:52:04
by the market of real estate and how to make affordable housing.

00:09:52:06 - 00:09:56:19
And that was the big pivot that I saw to later on start Kubik.

00:09:56:21 - 00:10:02:02
So the problem you're specifically taking on is a humongous one, plastic waste.

00:10:02:04 - 00:10:06:04
Nowadays, as you mentioned, whether you're in the middle of the Pacific Ocean

00:10:06:04 - 00:10:07:17
or at the top of Mt. Everest

00:10:07:17 - 00:10:10:21
you will find plastic trash everywhere.

00:10:10:23 - 00:10:14:09
Honestly, I find it terrible on many levels.

00:10:14:09 - 00:10:15:23
And by the way, that's a problem

00:10:15:23 - 00:10:20:08
that our partners at the Bally Peak Outlook Foundation have been trying to address.

00:10:20:10 - 00:10:21:20
That's how I discovered their work.

00:10:21:20 - 00:10:26:12
They have developed a program to retrieve plastic waste from Himalayan villages

00:10:26:12 - 00:10:31:00
and from the Everest Valley so it can be processed and recycled.

00:10:31:02 - 00:10:33:10
Kidus you’re also in this field.

00:10:33:10 - 00:10:37:00
Can you tell us exactly what you're doing with your startup?

00:10:37:01 - 00:10:43:01
So just to give you some context, the world has about 360 to 400 million

00:10:43:01 - 00:10:47:19
tons of plastic that it throws away and does not recycle.

00:10:47:21 - 00:10:49:10
The major culprit is the US.

00:10:49:10 - 00:10:53:17
I think it accounts for about 60 to 70 million tons of that.

00:10:53:19 - 00:10:57:08
Now I've lived in San Francisco and New York

00:10:57:10 - 00:11:01:00
and I haven't really seen that plastic being thrown away.

00:11:01:01 - 00:11:03:10
And that's because

00:11:03:10 - 00:11:05:14
America is really great at hiding it.

00:11:05:14 - 00:11:08:03
Europe is really great at hiding it.

00:11:08:03 - 00:11:11:05
But if you come to Ethiopia, the number is about

00:11:11:05 - 00:11:14:17
300,000 tons a year.

00:11:14:18 - 00:11:18:20
But it's in your face because it is not as managed

00:11:18:22 - 00:11:21:22
and people actually face it day in and day out.

00:11:21:23 - 00:11:25:20
So what we wanted to do at Kubik was take that plastic

00:11:25:20 - 00:11:29:15
that has very little value in the recycling value chain

00:11:29:17 - 00:11:34:04
and give it another chance for life that could add value to something else.

00:11:34:04 - 00:11:36:20
And in our case, that's real estate.

00:11:36:20 - 00:11:39:13
Real estate is also an interesting thing.

00:11:39:13 - 00:11:44:13
You know, all of us live in a home and we call it a home

00:11:44:13 - 00:11:48:00
because we find some dignity in the way that it was built.

00:11:48:02 - 00:11:50:06
We seek comfort in it.

00:11:50:06 - 00:11:52:13
Over 300 million families

00:11:52:13 - 00:11:55:12
around the world don't have that luxury.

00:11:55:12 - 00:11:58:12
About a hundred million of that is in Africa.

00:11:58:14 - 00:12:01:09
So we wanted to make Kubik our home

00:12:01:09 - 00:12:04:09
because we knew that trash

00:12:04:11 - 00:12:08:04
can actually be removed from people's faces

00:12:08:06 - 00:12:13:15
and we can create a very beautiful product that is very affordable,

00:12:13:17 - 00:12:19:02
that can be used to make one of those 100 million families call home.

00:12:19:04 - 00:12:22:04
And if we can actually prove this as a concept,

00:12:22:04 - 00:12:25:14
we're actually having a much broader vision of giving

00:12:25:14 - 00:12:30:00
Africa that name of being the launching pad of innovation

00:12:30:00 - 00:12:35:09
that is eliminating plastic waste, driving affordability in housing,

00:12:35:11 - 00:12:38:09
but even more importantly, around how we can

00:12:38:09 - 00:12:42:03
decarbonize a very polluting sector, which is real estate.

00:12:42:05 - 00:12:45:20
So we make bricks, we make columns and beams,

00:12:45:22 - 00:12:50:03
we have an interlocking system that then makes a wall.

00:12:50:05 - 00:12:53:05
The very basic component of any building is a wall,

00:12:53:05 - 00:12:56:12
and that wall has a lot of things going into it

00:12:56:14 - 00:13:00:03
from the brick to the cement that holds that brick

00:13:00:05 - 00:13:02:22
to the rebar and the aggregates

00:13:02:22 - 00:13:07:10
that have to be brought in and the sand that has to be excavated,

00:13:07:12 - 00:13:10:20
all of that extracted material

00:13:10:22 - 00:13:14:03
is required to make this really simple thing.

00:13:14:05 - 00:13:18:06
What we said to ourself is how do we

00:13:18:07 - 00:13:19:11
remove all of that

00:13:19:11 - 00:13:23:09
bad stuff to make this really necessary part of a home

00:13:23:11 - 00:13:25:17
and actually use something like

00:13:25:17 - 00:13:29:04
plastic waste in a way that is still as safe

00:13:29:06 - 00:13:34:08
it is as structurally sound, but really importantly, very boring looking

00:13:34:11 - 00:13:40:00
so that people don't need to even know that it is made out of plastic waste.

00:13:40:02 - 00:13:42:23
So key question there, You mentioned safety.

00:13:42:23 - 00:13:46:09
Of course, we know that plastic waste can break down

00:13:46:09 - 00:13:49:14
into microplastics which can enter the food chain.

00:13:49:14 - 00:13:51:15
They can be found in the water,

00:13:51:15 - 00:13:54:21
including in our bloodstream, where we're finding it.

00:13:54:21 - 00:13:57:06
And it can cause serious health problems.

00:13:57:06 - 00:14:00:00
How do you prevent your bricks from

00:14:00:00 - 00:14:03:13
creating and adding to that microplastics issue?

00:14:03:15 - 00:14:06:21
So safety has been one of the most important parts of our business.

00:14:06:21 - 00:14:09:04
And even before starting Kubik,

00:14:09:04 - 00:14:11:21
a lot of our deliberation was, what are we going to make?

00:14:11:21 - 00:14:15:23
Because we knew we can take plastic waste, mix our magic sauce

00:14:15:23 - 00:14:19:02
and make anything, including paving material.

00:14:19:06 - 00:14:20:14
Right?

00:14:20:16 - 00:14:21:20
But we decided

00:14:21:20 - 00:14:24:20
that we're going to focus on the walls for two reasons.

00:14:24:21 - 00:14:28:11
One, this is the least impact

00:14:28:13 - 00:14:32:03
material that you would have if you made a pavement block.

00:14:32:05 - 00:14:33:16
You have things being thrown at it.

00:14:33:16 - 00:14:35:06
You have cars running over it,

00:14:35:06 - 00:14:38:06
and that introduces microplastics into the environment.

00:14:38:11 - 00:14:43:01
But we knew that if we were able to make a wall, that is not really an issue.

00:14:43:03 - 00:14:45:03
So then the second issue we had to think about is

00:14:45:03 - 00:14:48:03
how does it environmentally not degrade as well?

00:14:48:07 - 00:14:53:13
And the two culprits for this is water and sunlight, because it's exposed to it.

00:14:53:15 - 00:14:57:04
So part of the formulation that we have ensures that that plastic

00:14:57:04 - 00:15:02:05
does not leach and that it keeps that integrity for hundreds of years.

00:15:02:07 - 00:15:04:02
Do you think one day you

00:15:04:02 - 00:15:09:16
could compete with the big brick making companies of today, whoever they are?

00:15:09:16 - 00:15:13:02
And what are the biggest obstacles to achieving that?

00:15:13:04 - 00:15:17:17
As a matter of fact, our bricks, our walls are 40% cheaper

00:15:17:19 - 00:15:20:16
than using cement based walls.

00:15:20:16 - 00:15:24:00
There is a really important reason that we have to start with this.

00:15:24:02 - 00:15:28:15
If we ever wanted to see the light of day in commercializing our product,

00:15:28:17 - 00:15:32:02
we knew that we had to tackle the biggest incentive

00:15:32:04 - 00:15:35:02
for a builder, which is cost.

00:15:35:02 - 00:15:38:16
Outside of cement being a very polluting product,

00:15:38:18 - 00:15:41:12
it's also a very expensive

00:15:41:12 - 00:15:44:12
and volatile product to buy.

00:15:44:15 - 00:15:50:06
In Ethiopia alone, the price of cement has tripled in the last two years.

00:15:50:08 - 00:15:55:01
So we knew that if we can get this cost significantly down

00:15:55:03 - 00:15:58:03
and market it to builders that can buy it at scale.

00:15:58:07 - 00:16:02:06
Now we're on to something where we're not only making sure it's commercialized,

00:16:02:08 - 00:16:05:02
but we’ve literally created this value chain

00:16:05:02 - 00:16:09:08
of an environmentally friendly product that can now compete

00:16:09:10 - 00:16:12:10
with something that's commercially available already.

00:16:12:15 - 00:16:15:08
Question for both of you, as a consumer,

00:16:15:08 - 00:16:19:09
when should I expect to find those organic foods,

00:16:19:09 - 00:16:23:22
those nutrition bars, and Kidus your low carbon bricks,

00:16:24:00 - 00:16:27:13
when should I expect them to become more easily available

00:16:27:15 - 00:16:30:15
and cheaper through the normal retail channels?

00:16:30:20 - 00:16:31:22
Yeah, sure.

00:16:31:22 - 00:16:35:04
I think that from our company’s

00:16:35:04 - 00:16:38:04
stance, as we grow,

00:16:38:06 - 00:16:43:18
then we continue to develop our relationships

00:16:43:20 - 00:16:48:00
with our farms that we work with and with our suppliers.

00:16:48:02 - 00:16:52:04
And I think that

00:16:52:06 - 00:16:57:10
with food in general, it's tough to predict the costs

00:16:57:12 - 00:17:02:19
and the cost savings that you'll have because at the end of the day,

00:17:02:21 - 00:17:06:08
our prices are quite competitive with our competitors.

00:17:06:08 - 00:17:12:14
But in order to have sustainable, well sourced food

00:17:12:16 - 00:17:17:13
that doesn't have fillers or other non-food items involved

00:17:17:13 - 00:17:22:13
in the ingredients, it's I think that's more of

00:17:22:14 - 00:17:28:02
what you want to look for because a dollar difference, for instance,

00:17:28:04 - 00:17:31:17
it is something that we should all be aware of and

00:17:31:19 - 00:17:36:10
I don't want to discount that certain products are cheaper than others

00:17:36:10 - 00:17:41:10
and certain people may want to spend, you know, save a dollar here and there.

00:17:41:10 - 00:17:44:10
But when I think about our health

00:17:44:10 - 00:17:48:22
and the longevity and the way in which

00:17:48:23 - 00:17:53:13
if you fuel yourself properly and you're aware of what you put into your body,

00:17:53:15 - 00:17:59:12
then that can eliminate a lot of big costs down the line

00:17:59:14 - 00:18:03:00
and I was in Alaska actually

00:18:03:00 - 00:18:06:13
with a microplastics scientist on an expedition,

00:18:06:15 - 00:18:11:21
and we were collecting samples in this pristine area in Alaska.

00:18:11:23 - 00:18:15:23
And in every single one of our samples there was microplastics.

00:18:16:01 - 00:18:20:03
And so microplastics are leaching into the food

00:18:20:05 - 00:18:25:00
that we eat and the products that we put onto our bodies

00:18:25:01 - 00:18:26:18
the so many

00:18:26:18 - 00:18:30:02
different things are contributing to our bloodstream.

00:18:30:02 - 00:18:33:19
And so I think that it's just really important to monitor

00:18:33:21 - 00:18:38:11
what you put into your body, try and be aware as much as possible

00:18:38:11 - 00:18:43:23
of what companies’ ethics are, what they're doing for sustainability as well.

00:18:43:23 - 00:18:48:09
We contribute 1% of our gross profit,

00:18:48:09 - 00:18:52:19
1% for the planet, and as a small startup company,

00:18:52:19 - 00:18:57:18
we can be a little bit more nimble and very like environmentally forward.

00:18:57:20 - 00:19:00:18
We're also vegan products, so that comes

00:19:00:18 - 00:19:03:18
with some benefits towards the planet.

00:19:03:18 - 00:19:07:13
But it's constantly an evolving question and it's constantly

00:19:07:13 - 00:19:12:03
like as technology gets better, we can improve our own practices too.

00:19:12:05 - 00:19:15:19
It would be my goal that we can be a compostable wrapper,

00:19:15:21 - 00:19:19:05
but right now our product is too fresh

00:19:19:06 - 00:19:23:00
and we trialed the top technology out there

00:19:23:02 - 00:19:27:03
for bar wrappers that could be compostable and the shelf

00:19:27:03 - 00:19:31:20
life viability just isn't there for foods that don't have preservatives yet.

00:19:31:22 - 00:19:36:07
So I think that as we continue to grow in the technological space,

00:19:36:09 - 00:19:40:15
more options for companies like mine will continue to emerge where

00:19:40:15 - 00:19:45:16
we can continue to sharpen our practices and get better and better.

00:19:45:18 - 00:19:48:20
Would it be interesting for a company like yours to lead

00:19:48:23 - 00:19:52:15
the research and develop your own wrappers?

00:19:52:19 - 00:19:53:20
Absolutely.

00:19:53:20 - 00:19:57:22
I think we'd need a little bit of investment for that, but it would absolutely

00:19:57:22 - 00:20:03:15
be a really effective thing to do and something that I'd love to lead

00:20:03:15 - 00:20:07:22
the charge alongside of what we're doing already for the environment of

00:20:07:23 - 00:20:11:18
just being as sustainable of a business as we can be,

00:20:11:20 - 00:20:15:02
while also being viable and surviving

00:20:15:07 - 00:20:21:05
and reaching our goal of providing clean, healthy food to people,

00:20:21:05 - 00:20:27:06
because that's a big prerogative of ours is being available.

00:20:27:08 - 00:20:28:07
Kidus,

00:20:28:07 - 00:20:33:17
what needs to happen for your project to scale up and for that kind of material,

00:20:33:17 - 00:20:37:12
for those kinds of materials to be available for everyone?

00:20:37:14 - 00:20:40:09
So the urgency that we feel has a lot

00:20:40:09 - 00:20:44:02
to do with climate change more than plastic pollution.

00:20:44:04 - 00:20:46:17
Just to give you an idea,

00:20:46:17 - 00:20:47:22
the built environment,

00:20:47:22 - 00:20:50:00
so the real estate sector can,

00:20:50:00 - 00:20:53:12
you know, contributes 42% to greenhouse gas emissions.

00:20:53:13 - 00:20:56:21
If cement was a country, it would be the third largest

00:20:56:21 - 00:20:59:21
greenhouse gas emitter in the world.

00:20:59:21 - 00:21:03:09
So the urgency that we've actually seen is

00:21:03:09 - 00:21:07:03
how do we build scalable products

00:21:07:05 - 00:21:09:14
that can replace this really awful thing?

00:21:09:14 - 00:21:14:14
Because if we don't do that, there's a lot more existential questions

00:21:14:14 - 00:21:17:17
that we're going to be forced to answer very soon.

00:21:17:18 - 00:21:19:04
But we need

00:21:19:04 - 00:21:22:21
to convince building materials manufacturers

00:21:22:23 - 00:21:26:07
that there are alternatives that are a lot cleaner,

00:21:26:09 - 00:21:29:14
a lot more environmentally friendly and also

00:21:29:16 - 00:21:32:13
commercially viable, that they can be using.

00:21:32:13 - 00:21:35:13
The way that we see ourselves doing that first is proving out

00:21:35:13 - 00:21:38:14
that this first product that we have is

00:21:38:14 - 00:21:42:00
something that is commercially viable

00:21:42:02 - 00:21:46:18
and then also do more R&D to see if there are other ways that we can do this.

00:21:46:21 - 00:21:50:20
To your question of when are you going to be able to buy our product one day?

00:21:50:22 - 00:21:53:18
Our target is in five years, and it's not because you're going

00:21:53:18 - 00:21:57:13
to see a Kubik label on it, but because you have

00:21:57:15 - 00:22:01:22
those who supply your Home Depot licensing technology

00:22:01:22 - 00:22:06:11
that we've developed that they can now do because they see it to be greener

00:22:06:13 - 00:22:10:06
but also profitable to market out in your market.

00:22:10:08 - 00:22:13:04
Let us know when we will find them at

00:22:13:04 - 00:22:17:11
the local stores in London and elsewhere.

00:22:17:12 - 00:22:21:23
Sasha, as you and Kidus exemplify very well,

00:22:22:01 - 00:22:25:17
building more sustainable business models for consumers is challenging,

00:22:25:17 - 00:22:29:16
but at the same time, things are moving now and there has never been

00:22:29:16 - 00:22:33:21
so much investment in the so-called green economy.

00:22:33:23 - 00:22:38:19
You have been an outspoken climate advocate for years, and today,

00:22:38:21 - 00:22:43:01
on a macro level, do you think the tide has shifted

00:22:43:01 - 00:22:46:18
and we are on the cusp of this big transition

00:22:46:19 - 00:22:51:19
or is there still too much talk and not enough action?

00:22:51:21 - 00:22:54:00
I think there's both.

00:22:54:00 - 00:22:56:19
I think that we need to be

00:22:56:19 - 00:23:02:05
using our voices as people with platforms, and at any audience,

00:23:02:07 - 00:23:05:05
and to continue to advocate

00:23:05:05 - 00:23:08:17
for the things that matter, our planet.

00:23:08:18 - 00:23:13:12
We need to be electing the right people to office

00:23:13:14 - 00:23:18:23
that understand that climate action is necessary.

00:23:19:01 - 00:23:21:07
It's not a luxury.

00:23:21:07 - 00:23:25:12
It's happening and I also have optimism.

00:23:25:13 - 00:23:29:01
I think that it's front of mind for a lot of companies,

00:23:29:03 - 00:23:32:00
and we're seeing a lot of growth

00:23:32:00 - 00:23:35:17
within the green economy sector

00:23:36:06 - 00:23:40:12
And I also think

00:23:40:12 - 00:23:46:08
that as people continue to enjoy the outdoors,

00:23:46:10 - 00:23:51:00
to do things that they love, that you see the effects,

00:23:51:02 - 00:23:53:21
that the changes in the environment

00:23:53:21 - 00:23:56:21
are taking place in real time.

00:23:56:21 - 00:23:59:05
And as people

00:23:59:05 - 00:24:02:13
experience that, I think that there is like

00:24:02:15 - 00:24:06:09
this inevitable way in which people

00:24:06:11 - 00:24:11:17
hopefully want to get more involved and see that it's necessary.

00:24:11:19 - 00:24:17:06
So I do think that there's a lot that we still need to do,

00:24:17:08 - 00:24:19:22
but I think that there's a lot of innovation

00:24:19:22 - 00:24:25:00
that's existing and growing within the space.

00:24:25:02 - 00:24:26:13
And at an individual level

00:24:26:13 - 00:24:29:00
we've talked about the macro picture,

00:24:29:00 - 00:24:32:22
but at an individual level, do you see the effects of climate change

00:24:32:22 - 00:24:37:12
when you travel, when you go climbing and you're out on the trail?

00:24:37:12 - 00:24:40:09
Of course, you've been advocating for conservation for a long time,

00:24:40:09 - 00:24:43:03
but have you seen an improvement culturally?

00:24:43:03 - 00:24:46:20
And when you go out, are those trails

00:24:46:22 - 00:24:49:14
cleaner today than they were 20 years ago?

00:24:49:14 - 00:24:54:05
Do you feel like there is more awareness and more engagement and that

00:24:54:07 - 00:24:59:12
this ambassadorial work you've been doing finally is working, right?

00:24:59:12 - 00:25:01:16
You and others, of course.

00:25:01:16 - 00:25:05:16
I see more awareness, but I also see more wear and tear

00:25:05:16 - 00:25:10:16
on our environment and on climbing crags.

00:25:10:18 - 00:25:16:21
I see that there is a lot more use because climbing is a growing sport

00:25:16:23 - 00:25:21:09
where you see more impact on the trails, more impact on the climbing areas.

00:25:21:09 - 00:25:27:00
I think that Leave No Trace is something that organizations like Access Fund

00:25:27:02 - 00:25:30:17
do a really great job of educating people around, but

00:25:30:19 - 00:25:34:07
still with more people comes more room for error.

00:25:34:09 - 00:25:38:11
And so now more than ever, it's extremely important.

00:25:38:13 - 00:25:42:21
I work with an organization called Players for the Planet,

00:25:42:23 - 00:25:45:22
and we did a beach clean up in the Dominican Republic,

00:25:45:22 - 00:25:49:23
and that was just after the Ironman 70.3 in Panama.

00:25:49:23 - 00:25:54:09
I went to a local beach and it was low tide and it was littered

00:25:54:11 - 00:25:57:01
with plastic and trash.

00:25:57:01 - 00:25:59:21
And it's very prevalent.

00:25:59:21 - 00:26:02:15
It's something that we're seeing more and more

00:26:02:15 - 00:26:06:01
at our beaches, at our mountain ranges,

00:26:06:05 - 00:26:09:05
and with the fluctuations, extreme

00:26:09:05 - 00:26:12:05
fluctuations in weather, temperatures

00:26:12:06 - 00:26:15:17
that I've experienced firsthand on climbing expeditions.

00:26:15:19 - 00:26:18:15
So I wish I could say like

00:26:18:15 - 00:26:21:07
the planet looks better than 20 years ago.

00:26:21:07 - 00:26:22:15
It doesn't.

00:26:22:15 - 00:26:25:09
But I think that there's more awareness now that hopefully

00:26:25:09 - 00:26:29:09
we can start becoming better stewards and start

00:26:29:11 - 00:26:33:07
maybe it's not reversing, but having a better track forward.

00:26:33:09 - 00:26:37:17
How do you see your impact as an athlete and as an advocate?

00:26:37:17 - 00:26:39:20
Where do you see encouraging results?

00:26:39:20 - 00:26:42:06
I think that there's always this give and take.

00:26:42:06 - 00:26:49:01
My job requires travel, which is inarguably

00:26:49:03 - 00:26:52:12
an impact on my carbon emissions.

00:26:52:14 - 00:26:55:22
And so I try to be as aware as possible

00:26:55:22 - 00:27:00:21
over my overall footprint on the environment.

00:27:00:23 - 00:27:05:01
I eat probably 80/20 plant based diet,

00:27:05:03 - 00:27:08:02
which isn't a solution to everything.

00:27:08:02 - 00:27:14:00
But when I eat meat, I try and make sure that it's as well sourced as possible.

00:27:14:00 - 00:27:19:05
But to your earlier point that does come with a cost and eating

00:27:19:05 - 00:27:22:05
well sourced food is more expensive

00:27:22:05 - 00:27:25:05
and paying for offsets when I travel

00:27:25:06 - 00:27:29:14
is one thing, but it still doesn't

00:27:29:16 - 00:27:32:18
It's not like a 0 to 1 equation.

00:27:32:18 - 00:27:36:02
And so I think

00:27:36:02 - 00:27:41:19
just being aware of when I travel is it for a good purpose,

00:27:41:21 - 00:27:45:06
and also using my voice and my platform.

00:27:45:06 - 00:27:48:11
I was recently in D.C.,

00:27:48:11 - 00:27:54:00
testifying to Congress around policy that pertains to our outdoor spaces,

00:27:54:00 - 00:27:57:15
we’ve been climbing and advocating for the Explore Act.

00:27:57:15 - 00:28:04:02
But there's a lot that legislatively is moving in a positive direction

00:28:04:05 - 00:28:07:19
The Explore Act is about protecting wilderness areas.

00:28:07:21 - 00:28:10:19
And so that pertains to hiking

00:28:10:19 - 00:28:14:07
trails, climbing, locations,

00:28:14:07 - 00:28:18:03
different clean environmental spaces around the US.

00:28:18:05 - 00:28:21:03
But I think that as people

00:28:21:03 - 00:28:25:12
with voices, at least for me, I've always seen that it's great

00:28:25:12 - 00:28:30:14
that I got to do my sport, that I love for a living, but

00:28:30:16 - 00:28:32:11
what's the point of having a platform

00:28:32:11 - 00:28:36:05
if I don't try to use my voice for greater causes?

00:28:36:07 - 00:28:39:07
And so I try and do the best I can.

00:28:39:08 - 00:28:42:06
I think that I am an imperfect

00:28:42:06 - 00:28:45:14
advocate and I have a lot of room for growth.

00:28:45:16 - 00:28:48:07
But through corporations and through government

00:28:48:07 - 00:28:51:16
advocacy work, I think that we're making strides.

00:28:51:21 - 00:28:55:05
I think that there's just strides still to be made.

00:28:55:06 - 00:29:00:04
So you mentioned Sasha, there is more legislation around climate.

00:29:00:04 - 00:29:02:18
We've seen in the US, the Inflation Reduction Act

00:29:02:18 - 00:29:07:11
and a lot of other initiatives such as the one you are participating in

00:29:07:13 - 00:29:09:10
and Kidus

00:29:09:10 - 00:29:14:14
There is also, as I mentioned earlier, more investment than ever before.

00:29:14:19 - 00:29:18:21
Do you see a momentum in the global startup scene

00:29:18:23 - 00:29:21:20
in terms of consumers wanting greener

00:29:21:20 - 00:29:24:20
choices and investment,

00:29:24:21 - 00:29:29:21
meeting those aspirations and that demand

00:29:29:23 - 00:29:32:21
The numbers are mind blowing.

00:29:32:21 - 00:29:36:20
There's over $1 trillion in VC

00:29:36:22 - 00:29:40:07
funding just for climate tech right now.

00:29:40:12 - 00:29:41:17
Globally.

00:29:41:17 - 00:29:47:14
I was just at COP 28 in in Dubai and

00:29:47:16 - 00:29:50:07
the number of investors that were out there

00:29:50:07 - 00:29:53:07
just looking for opportunities

00:29:53:12 - 00:29:55:14
was overwhelming.

00:29:55:14 - 00:29:58:04
Now that's the positive part.

00:29:58:04 - 00:30:01:23
I think when you look at where that money is concentrated,

00:30:02:01 - 00:30:03:07
some of it makes sense.

00:30:03:07 - 00:30:07:23
It is around R&D because there is still a lot of work

00:30:07:23 - 00:30:13:12
to be done to understand how to mitigate or remove greenhouse gas emissions.

00:30:13:14 - 00:30:16:20
So clearly understand that.

00:30:16:22 - 00:30:22:00
But it's also concentrated on things that are not physical.

00:30:22:01 - 00:30:25:01
What I mean by that is

00:30:25:02 - 00:30:27:23
if you're going to be removing greenhouse gas emissions,

00:30:27:23 - 00:30:30:23
you're not going to do that through software.

00:30:31:04 - 00:30:35:11
You're going to do that by having actual physical stuff

00:30:35:11 - 00:30:38:11
that you need to build to make that happen.

00:30:38:15 - 00:30:42:01
And you are a software engineer.

00:30:42:05 - 00:30:46:22
Now the reason for it kind of makes sense when you are a venture

00:30:46:22 - 00:30:51:05
capitalist, you are looking for really, really high returns.

00:30:51:07 - 00:30:52:19
That is what you're used to.

00:30:52:19 - 00:30:59:04
You are an investor who made a thousand X because you invested in Facebook.

00:30:59:06 - 00:31:03:08
Right? Now, if you're going out and saying, I want to find the next Facebook

00:31:03:08 - 00:31:04:17
in climate,

00:31:04:17 - 00:31:07:20
it's going to be really difficult for you to find that in a hardware company

00:31:07:20 - 00:31:09:16
like Kubik.

00:31:09:18 - 00:31:11:14
So you end up

00:31:11:14 - 00:31:15:20
investing in something that is more software in nature

00:31:15:22 - 00:31:18:02
that needs to change.

00:31:18:02 - 00:31:21:00
We need to be looking at

00:31:21:00 - 00:31:25:17
returns not just from financial but also from impact.

00:31:25:19 - 00:31:29:06
And there needs to be more incentives placed by limited partners

00:31:29:06 - 00:31:33:06
who are investing in these venture capitals to do that as well.

00:31:33:08 - 00:31:38:05
I think that pression will then allow more practical,

00:31:38:07 - 00:31:42:12
applicable solutions to be coming into the market faster

00:31:42:14 - 00:31:47:05
so that we can actually solve the physical real world problem.

00:31:47:07 - 00:31:50:05
Now, the last part is

00:31:50:05 - 00:31:54:05
most of that money does not see Africa.

00:31:54:07 - 00:31:57:00
What I find fascinating about that, it's

00:31:57:00 - 00:32:00:14
there's so many solutions here on the continent,

00:32:00:16 - 00:32:02:01
incredible solutions.

00:32:02:01 - 00:32:05:11
And I think Africans are the best innovators

00:32:05:11 - 00:32:09:23
because we're the ones who are seeing these challenges firsthand.

00:32:10:01 - 00:32:11:00
We are the ones who are

00:32:11:00 - 00:32:14:20
actually seeing coastal communities flood all the time.

00:32:14:22 - 00:32:18:16
We're the ones who have over 60% of our economy

00:32:18:18 - 00:32:20:07
that is agricultural.

00:32:20:07 - 00:32:25:15
So we're seeing crops fail and understand that is because the weather is changing.

00:32:25:17 - 00:32:28:17
So we are trying to do something about it.

00:32:28:20 - 00:32:33:00
What I would like to see is that recognition that the solutions

00:32:33:02 - 00:32:36:12
exist already on the continent and there can be more capital

00:32:36:12 - 00:32:38:07
that's deployed here,

00:32:38:07 - 00:32:43:06
but also understanding that Africa is a great place to stress

00:32:43:06 - 00:32:46:21
test a lot of these new innovations that are coming out.

00:32:46:23 - 00:32:49:22
Half of us are under 25 years old.

00:32:49:22 - 00:32:52:19
In less than ten years, our population

00:32:52:19 - 00:32:55:19
is going to be bigger than China and India combined.

00:32:55:22 - 00:32:58:22
We already has over a hundred cities

00:32:59:00 - 00:33:02:09
that are over a million people in size

00:33:02:18 - 00:33:06:18
Across all continents and across all sectors

00:33:06:18 - 00:33:11:17
software, hardware, US, Africa, everywhere

00:33:11:18 - 00:33:17:16
it's certainly been a bumpy road for green startups and even startups in general.

00:33:17:16 - 00:33:22:03
As many as 90% of startups fail

00:33:22:05 - 00:33:25:13
globally, according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.

00:33:25:15 - 00:33:31:00
Sasha, you've written about the challenges, ups and downs of life.

00:33:31:01 - 00:33:35:06
You have been through serious injury, you've experienced social media attention

00:33:35:06 - 00:33:38:19
and the pressure of fame since you were a teenager and the pressure

00:33:38:19 - 00:33:43:20
of continuing to perform at an incredibly high level.

00:33:43:20 - 00:33:48:02
And you wrote a book called Take the Lead, which is about reaching

00:33:48:04 - 00:33:49:09
ambitious summits in life.

00:33:49:09 - 00:33:51:22
Despite those challenges.

00:33:51:22 - 00:33:55:15
So I just wanted to ask you, what would you tell

00:33:55:15 - 00:33:58:22
to startup founders and entrepreneurs?

00:33:58:22 - 00:34:02:14
Do you have any advice for anyone who would like to make a difference

00:34:02:14 - 00:34:05:14
and start a meaningful venture in this space?

00:34:05:18 - 00:34:07:18
Yeah, absolutely.

00:34:07:18 - 00:34:11:15
I would say, first of all,

00:34:11:17 - 00:34:13:11
anything that

00:34:13:11 - 00:34:19:03
is going to be exciting and something that you're passionate about,

00:34:19:05 - 00:34:22:00
that's a great for a start

00:34:22:00 - 00:34:24:15
and knowing it's going to always

00:34:24:15 - 00:34:30:02
come with challenges and you can plan and be aware

00:34:30:02 - 00:34:34:05
of the inevitable risks and how to mitigate them.

00:34:34:06 - 00:34:38:08
Have strategies in place for when things go wrong.

00:34:38:13 - 00:34:39:20
What will you do?

00:34:39:20 - 00:34:44:17
Because if my experience in the mountain has been anything, it's

00:34:44:17 - 00:34:49:05
that things always do go wrong and not according to plan.

00:34:49:07 - 00:34:52:20
But you have contingency plans in place.

00:34:52:22 - 00:34:56:17
And then there's also a discussion over what you do

00:34:56:17 - 00:35:01:12
when you can't control that and what risk is worth taking.

00:35:01:14 - 00:35:05:08
And I think that building the right team

00:35:05:10 - 00:35:08:05
and place with your company is very important.

00:35:08:05 - 00:35:12:11
Having transparency and communication

00:35:12:13 - 00:35:16:22
and core principles that you wear every day on your sleeve

00:35:17:00 - 00:35:20:19
is incredibly important for both teamwork,

00:35:20:20 - 00:35:26:05
collaboration and the success of the overall mission.

00:35:26:07 - 00:35:27:15
But I think that

00:35:27:15 - 00:35:32:09
also with my journey, it's come with so many ups and downs,

00:35:32:11 - 00:35:35:19
and sometimes when you're in that valley,

00:35:35:21 - 00:35:38:21
it's hard to see that you'll ever be at that peak again.

00:35:39:03 - 00:35:41:18
And I think that that's where you have to be resilient

00:35:41:18 - 00:35:45:00
and you have to keep pushing and you have to keep showing up.

00:35:45:02 - 00:35:49:22
And so in the startup world, in the business world and everyday life

00:35:50:00 - 00:35:56:01
and injury in coming back from massive blows to achieve highs again,

00:35:56:03 - 00:36:00:05
I think that it's about the day to day and it's about the grind.

00:36:00:08 - 00:36:05:02
And I'd love to say I have like a very great balance,

00:36:05:04 - 00:36:09:21
but I think that it's more like managing chaos sometimes 

00:36:09:23 - 00:36:12:00
I'm sure Kidus, you can speak to this too.

00:36:12:00 - 00:36:15:13
It's like with a startup, there is no balance.

00:36:15:15 - 00:36:21:02
It's full on every day, but it's what you love to do.

00:36:21:04 - 00:36:24:18
And so I think that that's one of the one of the biggest things

00:36:24:18 - 00:36:29:09
that I've learned in balancing everything or not balancing everything

00:36:29:11 - 00:36:32:19
and also going for it in the different specters

00:36:32:21 - 00:36:37:05
and the different aspects of like what excites me.

00:36:37:07 - 00:36:39:13
Kidus what do you think?

00:36:39:13 - 00:36:44:01
You have to do something that you care about, otherwise you'll give up at some point.

00:36:44:03 - 00:36:47:14
I think one thing that I can already see that Sasha and I

00:36:47:16 - 00:36:51:15
would have in common is that we're doing something that we care about.

00:36:51:15 - 00:36:56:15
So even if things failed, we don't see it as the end point,

00:36:56:18 - 00:36:59:17
actually see it as the process to then do it

00:36:59:17 - 00:37:03:03
differently or do it bigger, right?

00:37:03:05 - 00:37:06:20
And there's so many entrepreneurs, especially within the climate tech

00:37:06:22 - 00:37:10:13
environmental space, that are doing

00:37:10:15 - 00:37:12:18
this for the right reasons.

00:37:12:18 - 00:37:15:09
They care and they're not going to stop.

00:37:15:09 - 00:37:20:17
And I think that's where I find radical optimism that we are going to be

00:37:20:18 - 00:37:27:07
the ones that come up with that solution or series of solutions that will savour.

00:37:27:09 - 00:37:29:03
Now, one of

00:37:29:03 - 00:37:32:06
the advice that I've always given fellow founders

00:37:32:06 - 00:37:37:20
that are just starting their company or even my team is

00:37:37:22 - 00:37:41:03
you always have to have a North Star and be very stubborn

00:37:41:03 - 00:37:45:01
about staying sticking to that North Star.

00:37:45:03 - 00:37:48:11
But you have to be super flexible on how you get there.

00:37:48:12 - 00:37:53:01
There's so little that you know about the journey.

00:37:53:03 - 00:37:55:23
Founders I think are crazy, foolish

00:37:55:23 - 00:37:58:23
and optimistic all at once, right?

00:37:59:04 - 00:38:01:18
Like if I knew this is what it takes to

00:38:01:18 - 00:38:05:10
have a startup, I don't know if I would do it.

00:38:05:11 - 00:38:08:07
So there is a bit of foolishness in there.

00:38:08:07 - 00:38:11:11
So the moment that we are locked into that

00:38:11:11 - 00:38:14:11
North Star, there's going to be so many hurdles.

00:38:14:11 - 00:38:18:08
Like Sasha said, there's going to be many massive epic failures, right?

00:38:18:08 - 00:38:21:14
There's going to be a lot of moments where you will feel humiliated

00:38:21:14 - 00:38:26:12
because you would feel that you made the dumbest decision and everyone saw it.

00:38:26:13 - 00:38:31:15
But getting back up, seeing that as a process and figuring out

00:38:31:17 - 00:38:35:22
how you can find a different way of still reaching that North Star,

00:38:36:00 - 00:38:38:08
what I believe is the magic sauce

00:38:38:08 - 00:38:41:08
for becoming a successful entrepreneur.

00:38:41:12 - 00:38:49:08
I'd like to ask both of you what's been your hardest failure in life?

00:38:49:10 - 00:38:50:16
I have so many.

00:38:50:16 - 00:38:53:06
I don't even know.

00:38:53:06 - 00:38:57:16
I've learned a lot along the way, and I’ve

00:38:57:18 - 00:39:02:04
in my climbing career matured from being a young kid

00:39:02:04 - 00:39:07:20
and having my first sponsor at 12 and being in the limelight

00:39:07:22 - 00:39:13:21
as a teenager to having different actions of mine be judged and scrutinized.

00:39:13:22 - 00:39:20:01
And you put on this this lens of just light, what did I do right?

00:39:20:01 - 00:39:21:09
What did I do wrong?

00:39:21:09 - 00:39:25:01
And I think that as a company, too,

00:39:25:01 - 00:39:29:00
like we want to start our our packaging.

00:39:29:00 - 00:39:33:02
We need to figure out our different trials and errors, our recipe,

00:39:33:02 - 00:39:36:16
and just getting to a product that looks good

00:39:36:19 - 00:39:39:03
tastes good, all these different things.

00:39:39:03 - 00:39:41:20
I guess I don't have a single answer for that.

00:39:41:20 - 00:39:46:20
It's just been a lot of falling down.

00:39:46:22 - 00:39:49:13
Feeling so flattened.

00:39:49:15 - 00:39:53:03
And maybe my hip surgeries are one example.

00:39:53:03 - 00:39:58:15
Like I couldn’t, I had to relearn how to walk three times over the course

00:39:58:15 - 00:40:04:05
of six months and I couldn't sit up at 90 degrees for three months

00:40:04:07 - 00:40:09:05
and then again for three months later, after the second side my pelvic bone was

00:40:09:05 - 00:40:12:17
broken into four pieces and then held back together by screws.

00:40:12:17 - 00:40:17:09
But then I went on to achieve one of my hardest climbs in  my career yet

00:40:17:09 - 00:40:20:09
after being told that I might never climb again.

00:40:20:13 - 00:40:25:17
So I think it's a lot about putting those blinders on

00:40:25:17 - 00:40:30:03
in the direction of where you want to go to

00:40:30:05 - 00:40:33:07
because, yeah, I've had too many, too many failures.

00:40:33:07 - 00:40:37:05
But with that, you know, some success.

00:40:37:06 - 00:40:39:18
Some success is definitely an understatement.

00:40:39:18 - 00:40:40:05
Kidus,

00:40:40:05 - 00:40:45:05
do you have any one story that comes to mind when you think about failure?

00:40:45:07 - 00:40:46:17
What I'm always thinking about is

00:40:46:17 - 00:40:51:01
how do I not let down those I really care about, right?

00:40:51:03 - 00:40:54:18
I got into this business because I did not want to let down my kids

00:40:54:18 - 00:40:59:23
for not trying to do something about how their future could be.

00:41:00:01 - 00:41:03:02
I've always

00:41:03:02 - 00:41:06:14
we went through this exercise once at work

00:41:06:16 - 00:41:09:23
where someone asked, what would you want your tombstone to read?

00:41:10:01 - 00:41:13:05
And you know, the more I thought about it, I just said

00:41:13:07 - 00:41:16:07
He tried. Right?

00:41:16:13 - 00:41:17:03
Right.

00:41:17:03 - 00:41:19:15
Like I felt that was good enough.

00:41:19:15 - 00:41:21:12
He tried, right?

00:41:21:12 - 00:41:24:06
And I really don't want to let down people.

00:41:24:06 - 00:41:27:16
Even when I think about, you know, those who have believed in me

00:41:27:18 - 00:41:30:15
to start Kubik and invested in this company.

00:41:30:15 - 00:41:34:05
When I think about the 50 people that have believed

00:41:34:05 - 00:41:37:21
in this mission and vision that I've set out

00:41:37:23 - 00:41:42:08
and left whatever they were doing to come join this journey,

00:41:42:10 - 00:41:45:03
I'm always thinking about those low moments that, you know,

00:41:45:03 - 00:41:47:19
you just say man I really want to give up,

00:41:47:19 - 00:41:50:04
but I know I don't want to let them down

00:41:50:04 - 00:41:53:00
and I don't want to let my kids down for not trying.

00:41:53:00 - 00:41:56:17
And I would say that's probably the one thing

00:41:56:17 - 00:42:00:14
that has really stuck with me over the years.

00:42:00:16 - 00:42:05:01
Well, today, I think it's fair to say that you're both very successful

00:42:05:02 - 00:42:09:14
individuals by all accounts, but you're also both very young.

00:42:09:15 - 00:42:15:06
And I would like to ask as a last question, what next?

00:42:15:08 - 00:42:19:00
I think of big picture

00:42:19:01 - 00:42:23:07
is really hard to say, like what's next in ten years?

00:42:23:09 - 00:42:26:22
I tend to like to break out my what’s next in two year increments

00:42:27:00 - 00:42:31:09
because it’s a little bit more palatable and tangible.

00:42:31:11 - 00:42:33:02
But I love that idea.

00:42:33:02 - 00:42:37:19
Like the North Star and guiding you along the way and being super stubborn

00:42:37:22 - 00:42:39:02
towards that.

00:42:39:02 - 00:42:42:20
And for me I have climbing goals, have a goal

00:42:42:20 - 00:42:46:04
in Yosemite that I'll be dedicating a lot of time towards.

00:42:46:06 - 00:42:49:17
But I also have aspirations with the company and growing

00:42:49:18 - 00:42:54:01
and being able to expand our product

00:42:54:01 - 00:42:57:09
line in what we offer and building our audience.

00:42:57:09 - 00:43:02:09
And I think that all of that is just one foot in front of the other.

00:43:02:11 - 00:43:04:06
I think that setting smart goals

00:43:04:06 - 00:43:07:14
is really important to stay on track at the bigger goals,

00:43:07:16 - 00:43:10:22
and those are smaller,

00:43:10:22 - 00:43:14:06
attainable goals in the near future

00:43:14:08 - 00:43:18:03
that keep you showing up and give,

00:43:18:03 - 00:43:22:20
you know that feedback, whether you're moving

00:43:22:20 - 00:43:25:20
in the right direction or your need to course-correct to get there.

00:43:25:22 - 00:43:30:03
And so I think that breaking the big picture down and whittling it down

00:43:30:03 - 00:43:35:06
to smaller steps along the way is really important, both for motivation,

00:43:35:08 - 00:43:41:06
for feedback and for sanity.

00:43:41:08 - 00:43:44:08
I honestly never thought I would be an entrepreneur.

00:43:44:08 - 00:43:48:13
I never saw that to be a calling or something that excites me.

00:43:48:15 - 00:43:54:00
I think just being an entrepreneur means that you get to absorb

00:43:54:00 - 00:43:59:01
a lot of information about things that you would not typically be absorbing.

00:43:59:03 - 00:44:03:07
And in my case, I feel like there's a lot around climate action

00:44:03:09 - 00:44:05:20
that I've started to understand

00:44:05:20 - 00:44:08:18
and feel very alarmed about

00:44:08:18 - 00:44:11:18
and also feel that I can't do alone,

00:44:11:23 - 00:44:14:16
or that my company can't do alone.

00:44:14:16 - 00:44:20:14
So I definitely want to reimagine what cities look like.

00:44:20:16 - 00:44:23:11
I want to find ways in

00:44:23:11 - 00:44:30:03
which people that are as motivated as I am and that my team is

00:44:30:05 - 00:44:33:17
can also get my support in different ways.

00:44:33:19 - 00:44:39:02
But we need more people that can do more of this stuff and try to do it bigger.

00:44:39:04 - 00:44:41:18
And agreed with Sasha

00:44:41:18 - 00:44:45:14
if I tried to figure out my 5 to 10 year goal, I would drive myself nuts.

00:44:45:14 - 00:44:47:09
I'm trying to get through today.

00:44:47:09 - 00:44:49:23
I'll try to remember that.

00:44:50:00 - 00:44:53:00
I'd say, Just

00:44:53:00 - 00:44:56:19
figure out what you feel really passionate about

00:44:56:21 - 00:44:59:21
and continue in that direction

00:45:00:00 - 00:45:02:16
and know that there's often

00:45:02:16 - 00:45:05:16
going to be noise and opinions

00:45:05:16 - 00:45:09:19
of other people and the internet can be a really harsh place.

00:45:09:21 - 00:45:13:23
But I think as long as you're doing what you love, you're surrounded

00:45:13:23 - 00:45:19:07
by the right people who believe in you, then you're on the right track.

00:45:19:09 - 00:45:21:23
I think one of the things we don't talk

00:45:21:23 - 00:45:25:01
enough about at Kubik and broadly beyond

00:45:25:01 - 00:45:29:19
that is the role women play around climate action.

00:45:29:21 - 00:45:33:00
There's this book called Project Drawdown

00:45:33:00 - 00:45:36:18
that most of us might have already seen

00:45:36:20 - 00:45:42:03
and read that quantifies solutions towards climate change

00:45:42:05 - 00:45:45:18
and empowering women is one of those top ten solutions.

00:45:45:20 - 00:45:49:14
Now, unless we bring them to that forefront of how they can make those

00:45:49:14 - 00:45:55:10
decisions on what our cities look like and what our world looks like,

00:45:55:12 - 00:45:56:12
no solution,

00:45:56:12 - 00:46:00:05
no Kubik is going to actually change these cities.

00:46:00:07 - 00:46:02:20
I really want to make that calling that

00:46:02:20 - 00:46:05:12
no, don't take it from me as like an inspirational thing.

00:46:05:12 - 00:46:08:21
Just read Project Drawdown, that is quantified

00:46:08:23 - 00:46:13:05
that empowering women is extremely important.

00:46:13:06 - 00:46:16:12
Yeah, empowering women is extremely important.

00:46:16:12 - 00:46:20:03
And from an equal access

00:46:20:08 - 00:46:24:11
playing field and pay and recognition and celebration

00:46:24:13 - 00:46:29:14
to also recognizing that we need to just in general

00:46:29:16 - 00:46:33:00
be more welcoming to everyone.

00:46:33:02 - 00:46:34:17
Well, that's all very inspiring

00:46:34:17 - 00:46:38:22
and we'll keep covering these topics on this podcast.

00:46:38:22 - 00:46:43:17
So maybe we'll invite you back in in a bit to see how things have evolved.

00:46:43:21 - 00:46:49:00
And I can't wait to see what other great things you will do next respectively.

00:46:49:02 - 00:46:50:10
Unfortunately, we have to wrap up.

00:46:50:10 - 00:46:52:14
Thanks for speaking with me today.

00:46:52:14 - 00:46:56:22
I'm sure our listeners will be just as inspired as I am by everything you

00:46:56:22 - 00:46:58:04
just shared.

00:46:58:04 - 00:47:03:08
Of course, this is a very vast topic, but I feel like we got to some key points,

00:47:03:10 - 00:47:06:21
especially about what it means to be a green entrepreneur.

00:47:06:23 - 00:47:09:10
So that's incredibly valuable.

00:47:09:10 - 00:47:13:00
Thanks for that.

00:47:13:02 - 00:47:13:12
I'd also

00:47:13:12 - 00:47:17:13
like to thank our great production team: On Thin Ice has Original Music

00:47:17:13 - 00:47:21:14
by Nadir Cassim, our script editor and editorial advisor is

00:47:21:16 - 00:47:25:14
Dave Vetter and crucially, credit goes to our partners

00:47:25:14 - 00:47:29:16
at the Bally Peak Outlook Foundation for supporting this podcast.

00:47:29:18 - 00:47:33:03
The foundation is very serious about defending mountains around the world

00:47:33:03 - 00:47:36:08
from the impact of climate change and excessive tourism.

00:47:36:10 - 00:47:37:21
Check out their website to see

00:47:37:21 - 00:47:41:21
what they're doing in the Himalayas, in the Alps, and other places.

00:47:41:21 - 00:47:48:07
That's ballypeakoutlook.org

00:47:48:11 - 00:47:50:17
On Thin Ice is a production by Iceworm Media

00:47:50:17 - 00:47:54:12
we have several other inspiring episodes lined up.

00:47:54:14 - 00:47:58:06
So make sure to hit the subscribe button and download our shows.

00:47:58:08 - 00:47:59:13
Please also give us a review

00:47:59:13 - 00:48:03:13
on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:48:03:15 - 00:48:04:21
See you next time. Goodbye.