First Time Laid Off: Navigating Emotions and Lessons Learned

When it's your first layoff, and you are left without a job and a mountain of emotions to work through, what's next?

In this episode, I spoke with Bryan Schmanske, a Logistics Analyst who's looking for his next opportunity.  Bryan gives a glimpse into what it's like being laid off for the first time, and we discuss how many emotions come with processing the mental impact of a lay off.  Bryan also gives some great advice from the lessons he's learned on his journey after being laid off.

                                                               
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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanschmanske

Transcript

00:04
Hi, welcome to the Reboot Loading Podcast. I'm your host Stephanie. Hello everyone. On today's episode, I am speaking with Brian Schmansky. He is a native of Ann Arbor, Michigan, a former logistics analyst who is looking for his next opportunity. He's an identical twin and in his spare time, he spends time with his wife, pets, and he likes snowboarding and playing golf. I'm excited to talk to him.

00:33
So welcome Brian to the Reboot Learning Podcast. Thanks Stephanie. Appreciate you having me on here. I've been looking forward to this. Yeah, and as you said, you know, I'm Brian Schmansky. Currently have been laid off for about three months and this is my first experience going through this. So yeah, it's been a lot of ups and downs, but it's definitely been a learning experience. So I'm looking forward to chatting with you about it today. Brian, I'm excited to talk to you and hear about your experiences so far within looking for a job, being laid off.

01:02
the job market as a whole, kind of what you've gone through and talk about what you're really looking forward to in your next opportunity. Yeah, so, you know, as you mentioned, and as I mentioned, you know, to start, it's my first time going through a layoff and it's been a lot of ups and downs. Never really had to look for work before. I've always been fully employed since I graduated from school. So yeah, it's just a lot of new territory for me and my family.

01:30
But most of my experience previously was in the automotive manufacturing space. I worked for a couple tier one suppliers to the automotive company. As you know, the big three's pretty big up here in Detroit. There was a lot of opportunity out of school for that. So yeah, I spent a lot of time in the operational space for those companies and then COVID hit and everything changed. Obviously looking for my next opportunity in I don't know what kind of space I'm looking for right now.

02:00
probably staying away from the automotive industry. It's very chaotic and I've been there, done that. Don't know if I wanna go back there. But yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. Yeah, it's hard to figure out what direction to go to. I think after a layoff, at least this has been my case of not understanding really what I wanna be when I grow up. I mean, it's as simple as that. I'm like, I have so much under my belt. I have so many different...

02:27
hats I've worn throughout my career. And I'm just like, what's next? You know, there's there's another adventure out there. So let's figure it out. Like you said, you know, you've worn many hats. I've worn many hats too. And I think my goal is to not start over in a new industry. I would kind of like to try to make a lateral move, something that's easy to get into something that I already have knowledge with. And I don't have to like, start building up from the ground up again within a company.

02:55
The way that the job market's been and the horror stories and the various ups and downs that I've heard from so many people. How has your experience been with applying for jobs? Have you been primarily looking for remote positions or hybrid or a little bit of everything? So the job search, it's been a roller coaster. Lately, I've been relating it to like a bad video game where you make it through.

03:20
all of the levels and then you get to the final boss and you can't meet, you can't beat the final boss. And then you start back at level one. So that's kind of like how I've been feeling lately. It's been a roller coaster. You know, I'll have good weeks where I'm feeling really positive. I got some stuff in the pipeline and then I'll have other weeks. Like this week I woke up on Monday. I was feeling really positive about a position that I, you know, had a final interview with the hiring managers and they decided to go another direction. That's actually my third instance of that happening.

03:49
Since I've been laid off, I've been lucky enough to have interviews for some really good positions and you know, making it, making it to the final rounds, it just makes you feel good that, you know, you still have some like valuable skills to bring, but ultimately I've been turned away to those jobs because they've gone with other people who have in industry experience that's kind of a hard pill to swallow because like, I know what kind of person I am.

04:15
I'm a quick learner, I'm easy to adapt to things. And, um, you know, I know a lot of companies, you know, they look at the onboarding process, how much it's going to cost, you know, and they can see possibly me being more of a higher cost of onboarding because I might not know some of the systems, but what they don't know about me though, is that I'm a quick learner and I'm really motivated to get that done. So yeah, it's just like I said, it's been a struggle. Some of the good that's come out of it. You know, I've been able to network with some people that.

04:43
I made connections with, which has been really good. And they've been trying to help me give me leads on positions. They think I'd be a good fit for himself. So that's been good, but you know, some of the bad, like the relationships that I had. You know, a lot of those relationships were personal relationships. And then, you know, when the layoff happened, it's like, those relationships just got cut off. And to me personally, that hurts. And I'm just being real about that because just because you get laid off from somewhere, it doesn't mean you're still not that same person. You're, you're still that same person. You just need a job.

05:12
Like navigating like all of those emotions and stuff on top of like having to think about my family's financial situation and getting back into the workforce so I can support them battling those two things have been, it's been, it's been challenging, but keeping myself busy. That's what I've been doing. You know, I have a great chart that I keep with all the jobs I apply to what I've followed up with. Do I have an in there? Have I met with any of the employees? So it's a good tracker that I have going, but it's getting, it's becoming very overwhelming.

05:41
because the tracker is just sitting there not making any progress. We're just adding more opportunities to it. Yeah. If that makes sense. It makes perfect sense. I have a similar, I have an Excel spreadsheet that has multiple tabs on there.

05:57
positions I've applied for, places I've applied to, recruiters I've talked to. I mean, it has everything. It's like the craziest spreadsheet I think I've ever done in my life. And I love Excel and spreadsheets. So it's color coded and it's crazy. The job search today is so tailored around that resume and keywords in the resume. And is it going to make it through the AI screening for the keywords? I understand why companies are doing it because they get

06:26
so many applicants for one position. You know, that's another point. Everyone says the economy and the job market is great. It may be great for some sectors and for some occupations, but for people that are in the supply chain and the tech world, it is not great right now. There are layouts happening every day, every week. So it does get frustrating being in this position and then having people tell me like, oh, there's tons of jobs out there. There may be, but there's not tons of jobs for me. You know, if I want to completely take

06:55
a 180 from where I'm at right now and go be a police officer. Sure. I'm sure I could get hired on right away, but that's not my passion. That's not what I want to do. So that's been really difficult picking and choosing which job you should apply for. It also becomes very daunting. You see a job that's been posted for like one day and there's already a hundred or 200 applicants, you know, that's very discouraging. And it's like, what can I do to make myself stand out from that? Do you reach out to the recruiter?

07:21
you know, if you know that recruiter or if you see who the recruiter is, I mean, yeah, we can do that. But I feel like there's so many people out there that are just inundating these recruiters with messages, try to introduce themselves that it may not come off in a good way, just because they get so many. So I'm just trying to learn how to navigate that and really just, just to kind of understand where I'm going. It's tough to

07:45
Do all the things that you're talking about, keeping track of things, networking, knowing what to do. There's so much advice out there from all different directions, career coaches, resume writers, consulting firms, and all of the above. And some of them are telling you all the right things, but it feels like even if we follow their advice, or even if we're looking to what they're saying to do, add consultations with career coach, right?

08:15
he gave very good advice in different things. And then I would go take to LinkedIn articles, social media, talking to other people, and everyone else has different pieces of information that they'll give you and say, oh no, you should be doing this. And it's really a matter of like, who's telling me the right thing? And is it, maybe it's all right. And it's just, we have to have it fall in front of the right people. But it is a lot to take on, especially when you're juggling the emotional aspect

08:44
being unemployed. And that was something I wanted to kind of talk about a little more is just the emotional piece and what are some of the things that you've done to help you process and deal with those feelings of being laid off? So yeah, the emotional part of it has been really big for me. Because like I said, at the beginning of this, this is my first layoff I've ever had to go through. One, how the layoff happened, you know, just a blind zoom meeting kind of a thing, you know.

09:14
seven minutes being told like, it's nothing done on your part. We just need to make, you know, better decisions kind of a thing. That was just cold to me. I would have rather heard it coming from my direct manager, something like that. Somebody who I had daily contact with to communicate those messages to me, um, that would have been better. So like, that's been really hard for me. And I still feel that very strongly, but some of the things that I've been trying to do to

09:38
you know, help myself. Got a couple of friends that were laid off as well that I'm still close to. And, you know, we vent to each other and, you know, anytime I'm having a hard time, I'll, I'll shoot him a text message and, you know, we just kind of shit chat about things and stuff. So that's been helping, but I'm also, I take comfort in knowing that like, I'm not the only one going through this. You know, there's a lot of people that are going through this, but in addition to that as well, you know, I also take comfort in knowing that some of the people that I might've been slated by in the past or.

10:07
some of my, what I thought, some of my strong connections were there, but maybe bridges were burned. You know, I'm not like sinking a lot of my feelings into that anymore, because there's nothing that I can do. I can't really control what I do. Like I said, I'm taking comfort in knowing that like, you know, today's employees and or managers, they're gonna be tomorrow's candidates as well. Eventually, like some of us will probably be in this position again. And a lot of what I'm taking from this is, I'm gonna remember how I felt going through this.

10:35
And if I'm ever in a position of power in the future, I want to make sure that people that I oversee or manage or lead never feel this way. I have my hobbies and stuff. I keep myself busy. I don't get too caught up in the job search because there's only so many applications I can put in during the day. Yeah. That's kind of where I'm at with that. Yeah. It's a tough road to navigate. And like you said, that.

11:01
you know, the managers will be a candidate one day. And that's so true because we've seen that happen too within just our own layoffs. And I totally get what you're saying as far as you wish that. And this happens in a lot of companies and I've seen this repeatedly happening where, you know, when they do have these mass layoffs, you're not hearing it from the...

11:27
person that you've made more of a personal connection with. You're hearing it from somebody who's farther up the ladder that you probably have never met in person or met at all, spoken to one-on-one. And it seems very impersonal at that point, which companies will argue and say, hey, yeah, we're doing it this way because of whatever reasons. But at the same time, we're humans and...

11:53
we strive for having some of that closure, some of that personal interaction. Unless you're completely antisocial and don't want any of that, I mean, that's okay too. But a lot of people do need to have that closure from their immediate manager or someone that they've worked closer with. So I can definitely relate there in understanding. I've heard so many stories and I've also experienced it myself with the number of interviews that a lot of companies are

12:22
having these multiple rounds, sometimes five, six rounds, I think the most I've heard of is like nine rounds. So it seems like the process has been more elaborate these days as far as what they're looking for in candidates and kind of all those hoops that we're having to jump through to get to the end goal, which is to get hired. Have you experienced any of these type of situations where you've had...

12:50
more than one or two rounds of an interview or had to do some crazy things like, I don't know, write an essay or anything along those lines. Yeah. So I can definitely touch on a few of those. I've been applying for jobs since the day I got laid off started that afternoon, pretty much. And I've been fortunate enough to land a few interviews. So going through the phone screen with the initial recruiter and then

13:15
onto, you know, usually the hiring manager. That's where the next step, at least what I found, that's where it's been going. And those interviews with the recruiter, it's just a basic phone screen asking about your qualifications, and then they tell you more about the job. But when you get to the hiring manager, it's a more technical interview and they're asking those situational questions to see, you know, how you're going to react and how you carry yourself. And I feel at least in that.

13:44
In that interview, you can get a really good idea of if you want to hire that person or not. I think anything more than three interviews, including that one with the recruiter, I think that's a little much, especially for positions that aren't for a senior level or above. And when I say senior level or above, I mean, management position, C level people, stuff like that, it's just becoming very cumbersome. And preparing for the interviews also has become very daunting.

14:12
because you know, you kind of have to tailor your message to each position. You know, one interview that comes to mind, you know, it was more of an entry-level position. The recruiter really liked me and, you know, I got to the second round of interview and it was with the gentleman I was going to be replacing and then the hiring manager. And, you know, we had a good conversation, felt like all my skills were up to snuff with what they were asking for. I think I waited four or five weeks.

14:41
with multiple follow-ups to the recruiter. And the recruiter's response was always, the hiring team is still making a decision, hiring team is still making a decision, we're hoping to get back to you soon. And I ended up getting the response five weeks later, letting me know that they went with another person that had some industry experience. To me, we didn't need to wait a whole month and a half to do that. I thought that was not really fair to me. Like if you were really that much on the fence about hiring me,

15:11
Probably could have told me a little bit sooner. The other frustrating thing about that job posting was after I got the rejection phone call from the recruiter, I ended up logging onto their website and that job had been reposted a couple of weeks prior. And I kind of wish I would have caught it at that point, because then I could have reached out the record to the recruiter and been like, Hey, I noticed that this got reposted. Is there anything I can try to clarify? Unfortunately, I didn't do that. So that was a long run.

15:38
for one position that I ended up not getting. It was very frustrating. Yeah. That was one of the things I was going to talk about is that I feel like, and I've experienced this as well, that a lot of the process, even if you're not having multiple rounds, it's just taking a lot longer in between your rounds of interviews or in between your first contact, your conversations and all of that to get any sort of responses or traction. And...

16:06
I know I've heard from others saying like, yes, it's because they have so many to weed through. But from the candidate's perspective, you know, you're looking at, let's say even if they have like 20 people that they're narrowing it down to, I mean, they're not interviewing all thousands of people that are applying to certain jobs. They're not even looking at that many, it's significantly less that they're even looking at and then pushing them through after those initial screens. So

16:34
From the candidate side, it's hard to understand why there's such a lag in communication and the timing there. And it's just another thing that's adding on to the stress of going through the process of being unemployed after a layoff. Doesn't do well for the mental health, I'll tell you that. Yeah, for sure. And I don't know if you experienced this or where you've made it with your interviews and stuff, but at least for me personally,

17:01
When I invest all that time into an interview and then make it to the final round and feel really good about it. And then I get that rejection, at least for me, that hits really hard. Um, it's hard for me not to feel those emotions because I get my hopes up. And I finally think like, all right, this is going to be the breakthrough. But like I said, you know, at the beginning, I'm relating this to a bad video game at this point. It's like you make it through all the levels you're doing well, and then you get to the final boss and you just have to start over.

17:29
I think the timing is one very frustrating thing. I also think some of the asks during the interviews are becoming a little much. I was gonna say, what's the craziest thing that you've been asked to do, where it just doesn't match up with what the job was? Yeah, sure thing. So I applied for a entry-level position, had the first phone screen, things went great, had the second interview with the hiring manager, things went, I felt pretty well. When I got to the,

17:58
To the end of that second interview, I asked, you know, what the next steps were going to be, and she went on to tell me that, um, there was going to be a case study and then there would be a panel interview with three or four other people. And remind you, it's for a entry level position. Now, ultimately I didn't get called back to proceed on to the next, um, steps for that, I'm kind of thankful for that, but that's probably the craziest one that I've heard to be honest with you. The other one though, that I've had that was.

18:27
kind of off the wall and I actually kind of liked it. When applying for one of the jobs, when applying just for one job I found, they didn't want my resume, they didn't want me to fill out an application, they literally just wanted me to write an essay on what I found interesting about the company, what value could I bring to it and why I was interested in it. And I still haven't heard anything back from those guys, but I just thought it was a very interesting interview process. Instead of putting it through the...

18:54
AI reader for the resume to see if there's any keywords in there. You know, I don't think the resume really tells the true story because as you mentioned before, there's so many suggestions on what to do with each resume. It definitely highlights, you know, career achievement skills and you know, what kind of value you can bring to it, to a organization. But I think you actually need to like sit down and talk with a person to get to know who they are and will they fit with the culture and the team relating back to that bad video game, the first level is the resume and.

19:23
getting it through some kind of screener to make sure there's enough keywords in there. But one thing, one other thing I wanted to mention though, I have come across some really good ones, at least in the job search. I was on a company's website yesterday and in the career section, they actually had a section where you could upload your resume and their AI would read it and it would pop out the most relevant jobs that they had available. And I thought that was one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

19:52
to be able to kind of filter based on what your resume says for the right opportunities for you. That was really cool and it made it a lot easier and I wish a lot of other companies would go that way. Yeah, versus the new login and there's, or each one that you apply to, you have to create a login and then you get sent to some, I don't know, I think workday is probably the most common one and you have to create a new login every time and that's always fun.

20:22
And honestly, like, when I see that the application process is just like ridiculously long, sometimes I even shy away from just applying for it. Like, that's just kind of where I'm at with it. Like I look at it and I'm like, oh, you pretty much just want me to write my whole resume in here kind of a thing. And at that point, I don't, I don't even want to do it. I lose interest. Yeah, I did the same with cover letters. So if a cover letter is mandatory, I'm just like, nah, moving on.

20:51
Because I already know at this point, it's probably not worth my time going through all of that. Just to apply here where my chances are pretty slim. And so yeah, I just move on. But I want to ask you, like, if you could do anything, didn't have to worry about money or anything at all, like what would be your absolute dream job? Something outside, to be honest with you, just something I honestly

21:19
Like I've always told my wife this, if we live close to like a mountain town, I would just go be a snowboarding instructor to be honest with you. I would just go live in the mountains and just shred all day. That's what I would do. Like that's, that's what I do to kind of like relieve my stress when I'm snowboarding. I don't think about anything else. It's just me out there in my own little head. And that's, I actually did a lot of that when I got laid off. It gave me the time to be able to go do that. So I spent a lot of time up North.

21:49
Michigan during the last couple months. Just working on myself, knowing that the stress of having to find a job is still there, but also enjoying this time that I have off, you know, this situation doesn't all have to be negative. And that's kind of how I'm taking it. You know, I've talked to a couple people and you know, they asked me how I'm doing and honestly I'm doing okay. Um, I, I wake up every day, try to have a good attitude. I know that the next great opportunity is right around the corner. So.

22:16
I'm taking this time to enjoy my hobbies when I can, because when I'm fully engulfed in work, I don't have a lot of that time. So yeah, I've just been enjoying it, enjoying time with my wife and my family, my animals mean the world to me. So I have an older senior dog, so I'm spending a lot of time with him. Like I said, this doesn't have to be a negative experience. I'm not taking it as a negative experience, just the opportunity for a new door to open. Yeah, and it's hard to see the positive in things like this though.

22:46
It's definitely a learning process. For me, I have had the ups and downs, the highs and lows, ran the whole gamut of all the emotions. And at the end of the day, I feel like it's a lot like the reviews that you read online. You know, when you go out to, let's say, Amazon and you're looking to buy a product and you've got, let's say the...

23:12
thing averages out to be like four stars, right? But you've got some two stars in there and you've got some one stars in there, but you've got some five stars, right? That's kind of how my days are. So some days are two star days, some days are five star days, but they all average out to be, I would say a solid four. It is important, like you said, to have something that you can just take your mind off of things. Go out, do your snowboarding.

23:36
I think for my next opportunity, like the most important thing for me, like what I'm really looking for is I want to work for a company that's making an impact. That's something that I've kind of learned about myself. You know, I don't want to work for a company that's just, you know, worried about making money. I want to work for a company that is making an impact environmentally or in people's lives. So I've been looking, you know, at a lot of medical technology companies, renewable energy companies, things like that. Those are things that really interest me and what I'm looking for. So

24:04
hoping I can find an opportunity in that space at some point. If it doesn't come along right away, I'll just keep looking. Awesome. I foresee a good future for you as far as finding what you want. I've had a conversation recently with someone about finding a company that really aligns with what you're wanting. So finding something that gets you pumped for the day, gets you feeling energized, like you really just wanna go in and do your work, that makes you happy with what you're doing.

24:34
One of the last questions I have for you is just for someone who's in a similar situation as yourself and out looking and has maybe they've just recently been laid off, what type of advice would you give to them to like if you could do this all over again, and with the knowledge that you have now, what would you do differently? Yeah, so first would be you know, if you go through a layoff that isn't ideal, you know, you don't get to

25:01
talk to the people that you want to talk to, or you don't get that opportunity, I would say like, don't take it personal. It's really hard not to do that. But most of the people that you had a day to day connection with didn't have any decision in this. So try not to harbor like the bad feelings even though it is like don't take it personal. But second would be just give yourself the time. That's something I didn't really do the first couple days when I found out I was being laid off.

25:30
told my wife and we were immediately started applying for jobs. And I don't think that was necessarily the most healthy thing to do. And, you know, after about a couple of days of that, you know, we got to the weekend and I was like, I just need a break. I need to process this. And I did for a couple of weeks. I didn't get on LinkedIn. I didn't search for any kind of jobs. You know, I wasn't reading the news about the job outlook and stuff like that. I really just gave myself that time just to kind of process, re-center myself.

26:00
you know, just get my head straight before jumping in. So like I said, probably the two biggest things of advice would be, you know, don't take anything personally and also give yourself that time. It's really important. Yeah, that's good advice. The time piece right there, that is something I wish I would have done differently as well because I think once you're in that position that you want to jump in so quickly because it's just, it's a very uneasy position to be in and it's so...

26:29
you just feel like you're doing something if you're going, jumping head first back into applying for jobs. And that can lead to a lot of this delay in processing the emotions that come along with a layoff. And I kept saying, Oh yeah, I'm going to take some time for myself. And what that equated to was basically me applying for jobs and then sitting in watching something on

26:57
Netflix and then going and applying to more jobs. And so I never really took that time to just absorb everything. So that's definitely something I would have done differently. And I think also you touched on earlier, it's important to have a friend, a group, just some sort of confidant that you can go to when you're feeling stressed out. Someone that you can actually talk to and help you just work out what's happening.

27:26
Yeah, I mean, you don't even need them to give you the answers or anything, you know, just somebody to listen to just to somebody hear your thoughts and you know, not be judgmental back towards them and you know, somebody who will just really let you vet and just get out what you need to do. I think that's really, really important. I agree. Brian, I want to thank you so much for joining me and talking to me about some of the struggles that you've had your experiences so far. I do wish you all of the best of luck in your continued job search.

27:56
I will have your LinkedIn information down in the show notes. If anyone is interested in contacting Brian, networking with him via LinkedIn, reaching out for him for any open positions, please do so. And Brian, I wanted to ask you if you would be interested in coming back and talking with me once you've found your next opportunity and we can kind of talk about everything that had happened since and look at the things that are happening that are new for you.

28:24
Yeah, I would love to come back and chat with you after finding a position. I think this has been great and I look forward to it. Awesome. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. If you're interested in becoming a guest on my show, all the information on how to contact me is available in the show notes would love to speak with other laid off individuals, mental health professionals, recruiters, business and career coaches and resume writers. Also, if you're enjoying the content and would like a shout out in an upcoming episode.

28:52
A link in how you can support this podcast is available in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening and until next time.