The Fennell Podcast with Jonny Carter - TGS Outdoors with an Announcement

Podcasts Premier on The Clay Lab YouTube Channel, then 2-4 days afterwards can be found on Apple Podcast, Spotify, iHeart Radio, and Amazon Music.

The First Fennell Shooting School Podcast Brought to you by The Clay Lab. You asked for more content and we are here to deliver! Welcome to the Fennell Shooting School Podcast, where host Will Fennell and special guest Jonny Carter from TGS Outdoors take you on a captivating journey through the world of shooting, hunting, and the great outdoors. Gain insights into what’s new in the world of TGS Outdoors. Join the charismatic Jonny Carter as he shares epic hunting stories and essential gear recommendations, providing valuable insights for hunters and outdoor enthusiasts alike. He even has an announcement you won’t want to miss! The duo also delves into the impact of technology on the outdoor community, reflecting on the role of social media in shaping perceptions of hunting and shooting sports. Whether you're a seasoned shooter or a nature lover, this podcast promises an educational and entertaining ride. Don't forget to subscribe, like, and hit the notification bell for updates, and follow Will Fennell and Jonny Carter on social media for exclusive content and behind-the-scenes glimpses. #TheClayLab #FennellShootingSchool #TGSOutdoors #sportingclays #FITASC #shotgunsports #Beretta#Hunting #podcast #Krieghoff 

Connect with Will Fennell
Instagram: @fennellshootingschool
Website: www.fennellshootingschool.com

Connect with Jonny Carter (TGS Outdoors)
YouTube: TGS Outdoors
Instagram: @tgs.outdoors

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Transcript

0:01

All right, everybody, here we are. This is the first, this is the inaugural Fennel Podcast, Fennel Shooting School Podcast. I think that's what we're calling it. And here in Sharon, South Carolina, and I am honored to call the person who's one of my inspirations in this endeavor, Mr. Johnny Carter from TGS Outdoors in lovely old England. He is the YouTuber. Extraordinaire what 160 something thousand subscribers? Yeah, baby former gunsmith Yeah Retired from gunsmithing at the age of 22 or something And now he's a professional shooter and professional shooting youtuber. How about that? saying professional shooter makes it sound like I have any level of talent will but I appreciate it Yeah uh, but you do get to go to shoots and you do get to go have a good time and you get to play with the coolest shotguns. That counts for a huge amount, Leo. I'm told that to be good, you need to shoot just one gun, a bit like you. And then you be like, good, that's the key to success is to not really enjoy guns that much. start, it's not a bad start. But sometimes you gotta shoot other guns. I probably shoot 10 or 15 different guns a week because I'm always having a demo with some student's gun or something. So I get it, when you play with a lot of different guns, sometimes you forget what old Betsy feels like. So. it's a difficulty, right? It's interesting. So you will pick up your students' gun just what? To see how they feel? No, they'll be struggling with the target. And it is surprising. There are some people that no matter what you do, they don't get it. But there's also a surprising number of people. If you demonstrate what the shot should look like, they pick up on it and it helps a lot. So I'll take their gun and it might be a left-handed, youth model, 26 inch barrel, 20 gauge semi-auto or something. I mounted once or twice, I kind of figure out how to make it work and I could break a target. Some, like I said, you can instantly tell from the look on their face, whether that helps them or not. If it doesn't help them, don't do it anymore. But if they go, oh, you mean move the same speed as the bird, even though you just said move 26 times, move the same speed as bird, they get it. It's helpful. So yeah, I probably shoot anywhere from 10 to 20 different guns a week. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. skill. There should be like sporting clays variety. So, you know, they do the skeet, the four cowliders. Yeah, they're different going to every station. Suddenly that's really good for sponsorship because suddenly all the sponsors will be wanting to buy the stations. We've just revolutionized the sports, mate. I did shoot a five-stand one time at a charity event that Holland and Holland sponsored. And they had everything from a 410 Cybicide to a Paradox gun, to all this stuff in there. And they had a different one in every booth and you had to shoot them. I broke two of guns. I have nothing to say about Holland and Holland. Okay, so I'll keep everything to myself. fair, they'd been shot all day by a bunch of different people. Yeah, those it's it'll be like taking a brand new Lamborghini and letting 50 people rag it around the track and expecting it not to be shagged kids to rag it around the track. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, you're famous over here much more than you realize. Your name comes up in conversation a lot during lessons. Yeah, yeah. know we've we'll I mean we did a bit together at Nationals this year but before that we weren't on camera together that's interesting. no, it's not me. It's you. You do good videos. You do good YouTubes. And people are hungry for information out there. And they find you. That's why you've got so many gazillion followers. Do you have a kind of breakdown on how many of your subscribers are domestic to you and how many are different countries? I say, well, I'm going to do that right now whilst we talk. I, um, I views changes video to video. I don't actually have a subscriber count for what or where people are from. We're going to have a quick look now. I know for a fact that video to videos on average, you're looking at 40% American market now, which is crazy. Absolutely crazy. Um, This is interesting videos bang yeah so yeah 40% America 25% UK I remember when those stats were the other way around. Canada 5% who knew there's actually people in Canada who were guns? That must mean the entire population of Canada watches TGS and the entire population of Australia because that's 5% as well. But I can't subscribers where is there is there a button for seeing where subscribers are from? No. Just that 40% number is pretty amazing. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Um, you see, I think that is true. I don't disagree with you. The problem is America is really far away. I don't know if you know that. It's not like a convenient flight. you get on a plane over there, it lands over here. All you gotta do is one walkway. to go to the West Coast. That's like, that is, I'm, that's a long way away. The West Coast is a long way. The East Coast, I can get to New York in seven and a bit hours. New York is good. You start, Texas Nationals has 12 hours on a plane. That's only a long old stint. Yeah, why don't you just fly to Charlotte or Atlanta and get in the car and ride around? Yeah, or just ride around? Yeah, absolutely. If your country was friendlier to immigrants like me. I just come, this is border, you just walk across. So what do you feel like coming over to the States is kind of, do you think that 40% has grown because you've been coming to the States or do you think, I think it's just because people in the States are hungry for more shooting info. I mean, from what we've seen, we've only been coming there for a year and a bit. The... nearly two years now actually. American sporting clay market is growing massively. And the appreciation of fine shotguns is growing massively. More importantly, there isn't that much content out there. We've now produced our stuff to a level that I think Americans will tolerate me being British. I think that's the truth of it. Like the quality of the videos is now good enough for people to go, it's okay, he's British, but we're going to watch because... This is a pretty film. This is it. Sasha basically saved the day. tried to get Sasha tonight, but he was busy so anyway mean, I am a happily second-rate TGS member next to Sasha. That man is hands down the hardest working, most talented dude out there. He is worthy of having on your podcast. I will, I'm a good stand-in. Yeah, no, I, that's a good question. Since our first visit, I was so amazed by how much effort you guys put into the events. That US Open was so wild. And then come into nationals and seeing that was off the chain as well. Like year on year, the two years we went, that was even better the second year. We don't do that over here. And I think the professionalism and the quality that you guys put out, obviously kind of inspires more people to get into it and to get better because there's a point in getting better. And I don't expect it will be long until there's an American channel that comes up and bites us in the ass and puts us back in our place, and I look forward to that day for sure. Jeremy just perked up on the couch over there. I mean, he needs to, that boy needs to quit his job, stop saving the world, stop being a hero, stop hitting the gym and, you know, being a hunky model calendar soldier. Yeah. No, it's, the sport is growing crazy over here. I mean, we had at my home club, Rocky Creek Sporting Clays the other day, three weeks ago or something, they had 760 school kids for a one-day tournament. They had eight something pre-registered, but it was 38 degrees Fahrenheit and raining. So a few didn't show up. They still had 760 or 790 kids. So another thing to remember, Johnny, when we have a youth tournament, it's not 760 people because mama comes, daddy comes, Uncle Joey comes, baby sister comes. They had over 3000 people on the property for a one day, 100 bird event. Is that kids trying to get scholarships? Is that the po- is that why youth shooting is so popular over there? you know, you get a, I got kids that get scholarships, but it's not, they get their shooting free. It's not like they're getting their education free. The scholarships aren't that big for it. But no, the high schools have teams, the fricking churches have teams, the private schools have teams, the clubs have teams. Yeah. I could definitely get into Churchmore if there was a shooting team. If you, you know, when you come over again next time, if we can target one of those shoots for you to see, you'll be blown away. I mean, they have, we have the youth shoots that are over a thousand kids. That is crazy to me. from about eight, nine, 10 years old to 17, 18. So they. is a nation of sportsmen? Like you guys take sports so seriously. We like shooting. It's a nation of shooting shit, for sure. Yeah. The nation of shooting shit. What a tagline for the USA. Should have that on the border control when you come in. putting it on my vest or something. If I ever wore a vest, I'd put that on my vest. Maraca, shooting shit. That's right. Well, I mean, you know what? I will say this, flipping it back on you. I have always been amazed when I come to the UK. You know, there's a lot more shooting in the UK than most Americans realize. Yeah, we get a lot of comments like that and it's always funny. I didn't think you'd own guns in the UK. Well, evidently you can. Yeah. so. There's this channel called TGS. But no, there's a lot of people that think you can't. And a lot of people think you can't because they're thinking in terms of handguns. You can't obviously can't have handguns. over here, obviously, but it's a lot of paperwork. And there's a lot more rifles than most people realize. And fairly easy to own a shotgun. Extremely easy to own a shotgun. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, of course. Not as easy as it is over there, like, you just need to have a pulse. of game shooting, and pigeons, and rabbits, and you know. we are a, we're not a country of gun lovers by any standard, but we have a good corner of gun loving more so than many European countries, which is nice. And you know, our sporting clays as much as I'd dog on it, our events might be less grand, but I think within a two hour drive of my house on a Sunday, I could go to 10 different registered events. And so on the micro scale, nothing to complain about shooting clays in the UK. From our point of view, from my point of view, going to the UK to shoot clays is being a golfer and going to Scotland. OK, I mean, it's the pilgrimage, just the motherland. It's where you go to do it the way it's been done. And I love the way tournaments run there. Yeah, we have bigger events and more vendors and. bag of glitter and tinsel and fireworks on it. that weekend, you know, where y'all just typically have the main event or maybe you have sport trap on the side. Um, but there's a lot of pros, man. The target quality I feel like, uh, is a different challenge. Um, yeah, it's very different challenge. Uh, I love basically as much as I love my can am, uh, side by side shooting without golf carts all over the range is a pleasure, uh, as long as It's a quainter event for sure. I do also love your Can-Am. Yeah, sure. But you know, you couldn't have an event like our US Open if everybody walked. You couldn't get from FITAS to the sub gauge fast enough. It might be two miles. the world English did a great job with ferrying and bugging people around or mini busing people around, but there's something about the self-reliance of a buggy that's pretty cool for sure. Plus you get the cooler, which means you can have adult beverages at the end of the event, only at the end. Yeah, only at the end. That's right. So I think coming to the States has been good for TGS. Yeah, for sure, man. Just a quick question. How do you see that target difference? I mean, I know what my thoughts are from my experiences. How do you see the target difference between the UK and US? had this talk, it's a different set of skills. And a lot of it goes all the way back to hunting traditions. We shoot a lot of flushed game. So we shoot a lot of quartering away birds, right? You shoot driven birds and big crossing birds. Y'all generally throw targets faster because you can, because the clays over there are substantially stiffer. so you can put more spring on it without having the breakage. Watch as the glaze. And we throw a lot more curl, a lot more curvature, a lot more Shondell-y looking, a lot more, you know, things with no line that drives the average Englishman betcha crazy, er. Oh yeah. But you know, you take an average American and you throw an all black crosser in the sky off a tower or off a ridge at 50 yards and they completely freak out. Cause they immediately think it's 80 yards and it's black and oh my God, Will is black. How do I shoot it? It's black. I can't, you know, it's racist. Um, but. I mean, you know what? Orange dome shit can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, well, but if you throw it in a thicket, orange is pretty good. Oh yeah, but it just looks like a MIDI, because you can't see the black ring. It's a pain in the ass. Yeah. I know. So it's a challenge both ways. And I've literally come to the UK and shot for a month and come home and be flustered because I'd kind of forgot what I was supposed to do over here and then I, you know, and I don't go to the UK for a year or so and I go back over and it takes me two or three days of warming up to get used to bigger lead and black edgy targets in the sky and all the things. So it's just a different set of challenges. And I think to be... No stand on the world stage. You got to be able to handle both. I think that's fair. That's a really fair shout, right? Given the world English bounces back and forth, you do need your game. Although like, like any sport playing on your home ground and your home stadium, it should be an advantage and that's fine. but not always, not always. Cause then the target setters go, oh, we need to do this because they're here. And you know, it just gets all lost in the middle. And you know, Jamie Peckham's targets were awesome. I felt like last year at Churchill's, I think Matt Reese's targets this year are going to be awesome at M&M. And I just. he's importing a little bit of English help to help him set up? Or is that just a rumour? Okay. bringing Jamie over to help with the world fit test, which I think will be excellent. Jamie's a one of my favorite target centers in the world. I mean, I think he does an amazing job. His dad, I kind of came up in the game every time Dave Peckham would come to the U S to set targets. I would drive to wherever the hell it was in the U S to go shoot them. And I'd go to the UK to shoot South down in the old days. And I, you know, I've studied his, I, I would know. If there was a shoot coming up, the Dave Peckham set, I could give lessons on the kind of targets he was going to set. I knew them inside and out. And literally I have people going to take lessons just for that reason. Interesting. So you could take his targets and replicate them and that's. the best I could, I could replicate the style. I couldn't always replicate the speed. But yeah, a lot of that, whole lot of that. I was coming to the UK quite a bit in the early 2000s. Just had good opportunities to do it. And would come over sometimes. I stayed, Corey Cruz and I stayed like a month and a half, one time shooting and teaching. And just had a ball, had an absolute ball. Got to go on my first driven bird shoot while I was doing that. Got to come over a couple other times to shoot some driven birds. driven bird shoot in the UK? it. I told somebody the other day. So obviously American clients said, you know, I got, I got invited to go, uh, to go to England and shoot driven birds. Is it really, is it, is it really that fun? Is it worth it? I said, dude, if I hit the lottery, I would be in England every day of the driven season. I went the first time fully prepared to be underwhelmed that it was going to be like put out birds, you know, it's going to be like preserve hunting over here. Oh, yeah, I can imagine. Man, that's some challenging stuff and it's a beautiful scenery and it's great camaraderie and it's, you know, it's just not somebody up on the hillside throwing them up out of a box. They might drive 25, 30 acres up there to run the birds up. Yeah, the whole enchilada. Yeah. And it's, it could be as pretentious as the hunt wants to be, and it could be as low key as the hunt wants to be. pretentious as the gang of guns, right? That's the best bit about it. But I suppose that's the same in America, right? You get a bunch of assholes, it's gonna be an asshole hunt. You get a bunch of friends, it's gonna be a friendly hunt. exactly, exactly. So you think US has been good for TGS, huh? 100% man, 100%. If I could come back there like two or three months of the year and just hunt and shoot glaze and tour around and actually have that as a reality, 100% it would be. But you know, I'm a young man with a young family and. Hey. here at the school and there's a guest house across the yard. You can come stay whenever you want. There you go. The Will Fennell Johnny Carter Clay Tour of Georgia. That would be something right there. So, yes, well, you know, heat, it did kill you, you know? I mean, you're there saying it was 38 Fahrenheit and everyone found that cold. It was 38 Fahrenheit today. I was walking around in a shirt. A couple of it was a little cold. I definitely had some nipple erection issues, but it was okay. Okay. We're going to redact any nipple comments from here on in. Okay. Alright, so one of the things I've noticed after your last trip to the US, listening to you on your infamous tubes, you're talking about your shooting goals now. You are more serious than ever about your own personal shooting, aren't you? I got bitten shooting that green course. I'm really good. I shot it and I shot some of the stands. Well, I shot some of them average, but I shot every one. And I was like, I could do this. I could straight every one of these except the last one with that MIDI. I'm not sure if I could straight that. second barrel of that thing. I hit it on the second barrel, it was so freaking far, I can't name sure how I saw it. Yeah, I, it's just a big target, right? Yeah, we have those here too, you know. That was one of the first, it was funny shooting it with Neil, you know, he's basically American at this point. He's like, yeah, have a look at this one. I'm like, it's a big dog. It proper. He set that course like an English course and I really like huge loopers, huge crosses, but that's the sort of stuff I'm comfortable with. You should, I can't remember it was on red course. There was that nasty midi shooting up the bank, like a head height. I couldn't hit that for shit. Like that kind of stuff. As you said, there's certain things Americans can hit that I just can't and vice versa. But yeah, I shot that green course and I just thought, you know what, I reckon it would be interesting to see how far I could push it. I'm definitely not world champion material, but I just caught the bug. I've had my day. thing about our nationals. And I'll segue real quick, come back. But the nationals themselves aren't that hard. It's the four days of the nationals. 40 stations, four 10-station courses. It just gives you a lot of opportunity to screw up. And they don't have to make it super hard. They just make a lot of it. And you need to do is bin one stand and you're out of the running, right? Yeah, yeah, it's not missing out. It's not quite that bad. But if you mess up one stand, of course, you're damn sure out, you know? So anyway, cool, man. So you're gonna push it. You're gonna work with Ed, or you're just gonna try to figure it all out, or? I mean, I am not capable of figuring out my own issues. There is way too many, as you have seen. I think Mr. Solomon is kind of on your own. You two are on the same wavelength. It might work out. Stay out of the hot tub. never. So, oh no, definitely not. See me and that man speak best when we're hot and wet. So I had, I had fairly big plans. I'm changing gun this year, but I'm not going to get that till May. The competition that I'd like my. Yeah. So I am moving over to bread. big announcement. is a genuinely big announcement. I am moving to a Beretta DT 11 L. Uh, but because I wanted a couple of custom options, custom stock, a little bit custom engraving, cause I am a massive tart, as you probably realize. I'm a tart, tart. I don't know if it's tart's not probably an American word. Would you call the woman a tart? So what kind of custom engraving did you get? I wanted a Rose on the trigger guard. I had a young family member pass away a couple of years ago called Rose and that was a, I don't know, something I've wanted on a gun ever since. I was like, this is the gun. Like the DT11 will be good for me. I think I've shot one fairly extensively and it's, I mean, it's a sick gun, as you know. gun, for sure. I mean, I shot one for about three seasons. It's very soft-shooting, typically very good patterning. Just got to watch the barrel weight. You know, just don't let the barrels get too hefty. I mean, I'm a big boy and I'm going to have a fairly large, I'm going to have half a tree on the back of it. So having a few extra grams in the barrels might not be too bad. I am denied about the carbon fiber rib and going for the DLC because it's, you know, it's black and it's cool and it's bad-ass young, which I still think I am. But yeah, I, I'm, I'm a top. I want engraving. Yeah, I don't blame you. I got a new gun and I love it. Yeah, I mean, I think you can be fairly frank, there's only, well, there's probably five guns out there that are worth owning forever. And through the lens of a Chloe target competitor. Oh yeah, game shooting is, is a very different thing, but as a clay target, certainly sporting clay's competitor, there's five makers worth going to. And well, you've got one, I've got one. And about, I'd say realistically they're the best two. Yep. I think that's a fair one to say, I don't think anyone can argue that out. There's a couple others that are good, that have got some fatal flaws. And if you manage those fatal flaw kind of issues, I mean, all of them, we can break all of them. And I've had all of them fail. Um, absolutely. Well the quantity of shells you put through it and generally speaking sporting clay shooters, most ones I know, aren't very good at looking after their guns. Especially the way, in fact, generally the more shells you shoot the less you give a shit, that seems to be like the metric, doesn't it? busy. The more shells you shoot, the more weekends you're shooting. So it's just like kind of one event to the next, to the next, to the next. You don't, you don't go home and take the damn thing apart and clean it every night because you got to get some sleep because you're back out there again tomorrow, you know. Do you think there'll be a point in the future where like, uh, there's a pit crew, like in Formula One or NASCAR, like you get the professional teams and they just, they get to the end of the shoot and the pit crew takes the gun, scrubs it between the stands and gives it back. Oh yeah, but like I'm talking about just at every single shoot, who are you saying that you've actually, you've seen, you've got Ed Solomon's in a box at every shoot and you just let him out and he comes out, scrubs your gun, Ed's never cleaned a gun in his life, I'm saying that's a terrible thing. You have a little Ralph in your gun. one day and I swear I thought I saw tomato plants coming up out of the rib. I can imagine it. I can imagine it. It was with Josh Brown. He shoots Pirahtsy. And you know, he shoots a hell of a lot on the GB FITAS squad. Such a lovely guy. I'm looking at his gun and the face of the barrels of ejector sight is black with tarnished rust. It barely... The only reason it's tight is because that rust has closed the gap on the face. He's chudded so much. You know, what is wrong with these professional shooters? Yeah, I saw Anthony one time back when I was still at Beretta. He was having problems for his bread automatic and he's, you know, we're there and the gun spits are there and he hands it off for them to clean it. And it took a rubber mallet to get the barrel off the 391. Wasn't the, it wasn't the gun's problem. The gun had done great. He had shot it so much. We couldn't get it apart. Had to soak parts before we could bust the carbon loose to get the gun apart. So I am guilty of something similar. When I was a gamekeeper out in Morocco, I had an AL-391 that sat across the dash of my truck, as you do, because you're cool. And that thing sat there day in and day out. I took it out to kill some stuff occasionally, of course, but it went straight back in the dash, sitting there in 40, yeah, 100, 120 Fahrenheit heat. And one day they said, you need to strip it and service it so we can take pictures for the record book. This is like a year and a bit into my tenure there. And I said, okay. Um, I luckily at the time there was a couple of older lads there. I was not 20 then I gave it to one of those. I can't, I can't do it. And I come out and he's got a wrench on it, beating it with a sledgehammer to try and get that front off. I wish when he says, if you don't clean this daily boy, I'm going to beat the shit out of you. I'm like, okay, fair enough. You know, I treat you like I'm treating this gun. I'm like, okay, fair enough. Well, um, I'll, I'll be good. I'll be good. But yeah, you do need to look after these things. It's a pain in the ass, isn't it? So yeah, especially autos. So goals? Don't give me some kind of namby-pamby. Oh, I just want to be better. That ain't a goal. I, um, so there's a shoot every year called the pro one challenge. It's a Barbary, it's sponsored by Hull cartridge, a sponsor of mine. It, I've shot it every year for the last four years. It's a, well, other than when it wasn't on in COVID, but yeah, it's a fantastic event. I is 120 birds, no rules, no, it's not registered with the CPSA. So it's, there's a little bit of sporting. There's some fit ask style singles and there's a little bit of super sporting. So every stance different. I mean, there's 13, 14, 15 stance. I'm like. It's all set by Josh. He's one core setter of the year over here, two years in a row. And it's, it's tasty. He's a great guy. He really looked out to me last time over there. Great, love Barbary. Shout out to Barbary. he's, it's my favorite ground in the UK. You know, it might not be the most like stunning with mountains or anything, but the targets are always solid and everyone there is always welcoming and lovely. And you cannot ask for more than that. You can't. I remember the first year we filmed it properly. He said, I bet you a fiver, you can't break an 80. And I think I shot an 89. Next year he said, I bet you can't break a 90. This year I want to break 100. broke I think I shot a 97 or something last year I've 120 which I was happy with say again 120 and it's a no joke event right like you the super final will be you'll be in it on a 113 112 113 yeah so you know you have to be pretty good uh august uh yeah I don't get my gun Between now and then, I mean, a bit like you, I shoot three or four different guns a week. I get something that proximate, approximates the weight, get to work. Yeah, you know, I think, I don't know, do you think that technique is technique is technique or does it, is it really that gun specific? Um, I don't think you need to have a different technique for a different gun, but I think your muscles get used to moving a certain amount of weight in a certain technique. You know, if you're used to, if you're shooting swing through, okay, and you're used to a real heavy gun and then you pick up my parkour, your timing's gonna be a little off for a while. And you know, if you're used to shooting pull away, and you're used to my little parkour and then you pick up a nine pound DT11, you know, your muscles are going to work different. I'm just thinking, it's not exact, but you ought to be in the ballpark. So how long before a competition where you actually want to do some damage, how long will you not touch another gun for? Like nationals for instance, I went to Texas about two weeks before the event to teach and I would practice in the afternoons and stuff and I only I put my gun in the buggy during the lesson. If I had a demo I used my gun two three weeks. And that's enough for you to just feel it. but that's enough for me to just stay with old Betsy with my gun and wean yourself off of shooting every other brand, every other make, every other gun fit. rib, every other glow worm front side, every other action type, you know, you demo with side by side. gun you've ever shot along the course of this mission? Well, not the worst, what's the hardest? What's the one that you struggled with the most? Yeah. Interesting. anything with a high rib is a struggle for me. And then you add the extra weight, bulk of a collar. I mean, some people thrive on that, which is not my cup of tea. I like flat rib and I like a very dynamic gun. Interesting. Mm-hmm matter of fact in my Baretta days. I liked the DT 10 Much better than I like the DT 11 The first 11 were really porky. They had barrels in the 168 range You know stuff like that and then they kind of lightened them up back up to closer to the old DT 10 weights Yeah, yeah, even some 157s and stuff like that So yeah, heavy and high ribs, that's the biggest problem. That's always been the case for you, just like a fast handling gun. I like a easy handling gun. I don't move it so fast, but I love the ability to change directions, to transition from one target to the other better. I like a neutral balance. I feel like my mount is better when each hand is holding an equal amount of weight, and I love a flat rib. If you think about it, you're the student of the gun that I love to talk to. You know, field guns evolved over the decades to have a flat rib and a bit of drop to the comb. Mm-hmm. Flat shoot and see no rear point where you shoot, kill what you're looking at. It's a simple recipe for sure. you know, in Sporty Plays is just a trap gun being adapted to Sporty Plays. Now, you know, absolutely, I'm not saying it can't be done. And if it looks like a trap shot, it's like cheating, you know, it's easy. They just don't all look like trap shots. Yeah, it's an interesting one. an arching or curving line, that higher rib, canting of the gun gets to be a bigger and bigger problem. Yeah, so I mean, I am denied about moving to a high rib for a while. I say a high rib, a medium rib, a step up rib, whatever you call it. What a sporting shoot would call a high rib, 10 mil step. It's tough, right? I shoot one really well. I mean, I shot a 62X trap for years when I was younger. I really love that. It's a great gun. Again, it's a trap gun, but you can adapt it nicely. When I was at the Krieger factory last year, I shot the pro rib that big beast and I remember thinking this is this is not my cup of tea. I shot it better than I've ever shot anything else. I, I felt weird about that, but I've shot a step up ribs for. Good portions of my life. So it came very naturally. I'm struggling. I took a, we got a video coming out in a couple of weeks time of it's called high rib versus flat rib. And I took a Browning high rib and a Browning flat rib, my Browning flat rib out to stick them both against each other, just to see if I could figure out which was better for me. and they are so good at different things. Exactly as you said, there was on the last station I shot, there was a big crosser, well, it was a little trap bird followed by a big left to right crosser. And the trap bird, I mean, I could kill it five yards off the arm, and it didn't feel like I had to work hard to do that. And the crosser broke well, but I struggled to see what the real benefit of Viva was. They both won for different things, right? They both felt good for different things. I struggled with that. because I really thought one would come out on top and the different studios would be massive and they're not as big as some people would make out. Yeah, it's always, it's hard to do what you're talking about, trying to say, well, this is better for this, for the same shooter, because the shooter is gonna have a background of a flat rib or a background of a high rib. So, you know, in the big scheme of things, is it the end of the world? Just shoot the same thing all the time, you'll be okay. I think that's probably the reality, is they're both great, I just need to stick with one for at least two or three weeks before a competition and go get some shells through the damn thing. Yeah, absolutely. Well, man, congrats on going to a new gun. Is this kind of a new relationship with Beretta kind of thing or? Yeah, so after we did their factory tour a couple of years ago, I honestly up until that point, I kind of just viewed Beretta as just, it's Beretta in it. They're just the big dog, blah, blah. There's just a big company. And actually when you go there, all of the people who are there are really lovely. They are individually passionate. And it was a very different thing to what I imagined. And then we went back and we filmed the the film on the steeling barrels because I made a comment in a video a little while ago saying I just thought it was trash, I thought it was marketing bullshit and they invited me out and said no come we'll show you, we'll show you that it's not, we'll put you on the test, we'll let you shoot the gun, we'll strap you up to the pads and they really did prove that there was a difference, certainly with Steel Shot it was a remarkable difference. yeah, well think about it. Have to. That longer taper would have to favor a steel shot. Yeah, right. But to an extent that I... Wow. Yeah. Just genuinely, I was like, they really should tell more people about the stuff that we weren't allowed to tell people about. I'm like, I don't understand. I think it was because it devalues their standard barrels. It doesn't devalue them. It would just make people want the higher ones. But to an extent that I would probably prefer a higher one if the option was there, hands down. And then we... came on the market for, not came on the market for new gun sponsors, but really looking for one. I was quite enjoying being a free agent and I had a phone call when we chatted about a couple of things and a few things that we wanted to film next year with them, a couple of gun releases they have coming out. And I'm like, Hey, what gun you shooting? I was like, whatever the fuck I want. They said, would you? I'm like, yeah, I really would actually. Like, well, it's one of the best guns ever made. And if I was going to move to something and promote it, it's one of the few that I would. So, and now DT11 boy, how I feel like a real adult. I never forget, I only ever had, I shot DTs for 16 years, DT 10s and 11s. And I only ever had triggers go down twice. And over the course of that time, you did what? Nearly half a million rounds? Wow. Oh my god. that was in my formative years. I was shooting a lot more shells. But both times, I was in shoot-offs in FITAS events, big FITAS World Cup events. And both times, I carried my spare trigger. I would get a spare trigger, put it in the gun, make sure it worked, then take it out, oil it up, and take the vacuum seal, the food saver, and vacuum seal it. and throw that in my range bag. That way it kept moisture out and dust out and stuff. So both times I had a failure, I just reached out to my bag, took the pocket knife, slid open the vacuum seal, plugged it in the gun and won the shoot off. That is sick. How does that work in a shoot-off when you have a mechanical failure? You're allowed to do over? just any, you know, you ask for a chance to check your gun. I mean, I lost the target. I had a gun malfunction, so you get a gun malfunction. So get it over there. So when you get a gun malfunction in FITASC, you are allowed to sort your gun and have another go at the target. you can do it right then on the spot, yes. Yeah. And you know better than anybody else, we need dropout triggers and guns that have flat springs. You shoot a Kreg off, runs on coil springs. You don't need a dropout trigger because the coil springs don't break. But they lose tension in a micro amount every time it cycles. So once every year or so, you put fresh springs in. So pick your poison. For the cost of a coil spring, I mean a flat spring costs a bit more to make, but for the cost of a coil spring, it always bizarre to me when I was gunsmithing. The people were like, I was like, do you want new pins and springs? How much? What are the parts? Let's say on a... Yeah, you're in for like two hours of labour, three hours of labour. The pins on a Browning are £26 each and the springs are £16 each. This is going to guarantee you another year, two years, three, four years of hard work. Just yeah. Right. For the certainly with something like a Kreg off the guns, 20,000 bucks minimum. I let's just, yeah, what's the standard one? Probably. I mean, the exchange rate's not that bad now. It's probably 16,000. I would have thought basic one. Yeah. it's about 13 here. Street price, I mean, retail's like 14. That sounds about right. yeah, but that's pre-tax for you, mine's including. Yeah. Yeah, so you take 20% off of that. So it's probably, it's basically the same. Yeah, I, why would you not? Why would you? It's super exciting. and a and a you're going to build a custom stock for it or. Yes, it's gonna have a custom stock considering a long forend, but I don't mind having my hand over the end of the forend You know, there's something kind of I've got kind of used to feeling the end of the knob in my hands It sorry, this is a this is a family show But yeah, I'm I did a gun fitting video with The gun fit company a little while ago just to check all of my guns because probably the same as you You've had a lot of custom socks, they're all different, but you shoot them all well, providing you can shoot one guy I worked with, I worked with Jim Cringwood. I think he's the man. Yeah, so I just give myself up unto Jim. Jim, whatever you tell me to do, that's what I'm gonna do. Just build it and I'll shoot it. So he's the man. Anthony was just out at Jim's. Anthony's got the new SL2. That is such a cool gun. I can't wait to see it. Jim called me and told me all about it. But I can't wait to see it. But he said there's a new choke tube system and new bores. And that's right. So that's why I didn't say anything about it. it's up. Yeah, that is pretty sick. Pretty sick. It's next level. I've shot heavy. Jim said it was almost nine pounds. It's a little heavier than I thought it'd be. It's a lump. So I mean, I've not shot the pre the full production model yet. I've held the pre production and I held that launch edition. I shot the launch edition. I remember shooting it and thinking, yeah, this is a gun. And I spoke to them about that and they spoke to me about it. But. I shot a what? Thirty five thousand dollar gun for a few years. It would be nice to shoot one that's a little bit more accessible to people. And I know it probably sounds a bit weird. tart man. You need that. You need that. Yeah, I've still got like a few TIE guns. We're not worried too much. Yeah, there's some, I borrowed an SL3 for a game day the other day and I phoned GMK, the British reporter, the UK up and said, you ain't getting this back until you need it. This is so nice. It's pretty. It makes me feel. Yeah. Something like it. Yeah. That SL2 is sick. I look forward to seeing what Anthony can do with that. Right. But it's interesting with the DD and Beretta, Longthorn is a great gun. really enjoyable gun but there's not the pressure to sort of display what it can do like there is with a DT11. You see the top boys shooting them, suddenly a lot of the pressure this year is because that gun can do its stuff and I almost want to just for maybe this year and definitely next year just spend a couple of years and prove a point or two. why don't you like this year at nationals make that a little bit of a goal too and like shoot earlier in the week and go ahead and shoot the main event and then do more of the filming later in the week. I think that's on the cards. I might come out before the boys and actually just have a pop. I think that's going to be worth a go and see what we can do. you want to come a little early, I'll be in Westside Sporting Grounds by Texas Home. I'll be there for two weeks before. And they got a lovely, lovely place to warm up and get ready. I mean that does sound like a good idea. We'll come shoot a few targets and then go and um, not embarrass myself on the main event, but we'll see what we can do. But you know, you know as well as I do that there is gonna be some kind of mistake involving beers and barbecue in between one of those days. to get there two weeks early and get that out of the way. Yeah, that's probably right. And just scared like, uh, or maybe I'll be T total by that point. That's probably wise. I should point out guys, I'm not an alcoholic and a slayers, but when you catch up with friends, like once a year, accidents happen. And you wake up in the morning. Yeah, and you've got to be on peg in 30 minutes and get dressed, grab your gun, get there and hope. All right, buddy. Well, it's been great catching up with you. And if you don't mind, I'd love to do this periodically. Get the UK report for the final podcast. How about that? I like that idea, man. Please tell the crowd I said hello. Sasha, Mr. Solomons, Mr. Lyons, Josh, miss everybody. I'm gonna I'll just wear a little t-shirt says Will Fennel says hello like Frankie says, relax, relax. I do wear that hat. I look good in that hat. Alright buddy, well anything else? Anything else you need to tell America? I appreciate you guys. There you go. I even said y'all just for you. appreciate you, man. You are famous here in the States. All right, I'm going to hang it up for us, buddy. Take care. See you. There's a lot of people out there who