Jessica Holmes: The Path to Thriving Mental Health in the Workplace

Could humor be the secret to a fulfilling professional life? Comedian Jessica Holmes joins us to explore how humor can enhance mental well-being, workplace satisfaction, and align personal values with work.

Jessica Holmes is renowned for her performances alongside Ellen DeGeneres, Russell Peters, Jerry Seinfeld, and Oprah Winfrey. She has graced stages at Just For Laughs and The Second City, starring in comedy series like The Holmes Show and Royal Canadian Air Farce, where her comedic insights into life's challenges and celebrity impersonations leave audiences in stitches.

Today, Holmes’ greatest joy is working as an advocate for mental health and helping people take simple, sustainable steps towards fulfillment and well-being, one laugh at a time.

Key Takeaways:

1. Humor at Work: Discover how laughter can enhance mental well-being and job satisfaction.
2. Mental Health Tips: Learn simple practices such as gratitude lists and self-care for better mental health.
3. Empathetic Workplace: Understand how empathy and active listening can create a supportive work environment.

Jessica's links:

• Website: https://www.jessicaholmes.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-holmes-50ab90202/ 
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/happyfunholmes/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@jessicaholmes9872
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HappyFunHolmes/ 
• X (Twitter): https://x.com/happyfunholmes 

Hi, I'm your podcast host Keita Demming: Author, Advisor, Thought Partner & Coach.

I'm an award-winning educator and coach with a PhD in Adult Education and Workplace Learning who works to transform companies into places that are idea-driven and people-centered.

At The Covenant Group, I design training programs and coach entrepreneurs and business leaders to meet their strategic goals and build their businesses.

In my book, Strategy to Action: Run Your Business Without It Running You, I introduce an effective and straightforward tool to elevate your skills as a business professional and navigate the corporate world. The book offers practical insights on transforming strategies into tangible results.

Follow me on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, and subscribe to my Newsletter.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

To me, empathy means, even if you can't understand what I'm going through, even if you think it's weird, you want for me to be well and you want for me to be heard. So with any form of mental illness it's the same as with an invisible illness. Oftentimes we don't feel believed that we're struggling, that we're struggling.

Speaker 2: 0:29

Welcome to another episode of Conversations with Keita Deming, where we explore two questions how do we become better people in business and how do we become better business people? Today I'm going to be in conversation with Jessica Holmes, and she's a comedian who takes on the topic of mental health in life and in the workplace, and one of the things I really admired about this conversation was that when I asked her what advice would you give to your younger self, she quite candidly said my younger self would not have listened. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. It's on a very, very important topic and one that's near and dear to my heart, which is mental health. But for Jessica, she talks about how she brings comedy and adds a little bit of fun and humor into everything she does. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. All right, Jessica. Welcome to Conversations with Keita Deming.

Speaker 1: 1:24

Keita, I am very happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me and my apologies. My cat's joining me for this. I know it seems a little unprofessional, but it's comforting, it's relaxing. I recommend everyone have a podcast cat that just sits there A podcast cat.

Speaker 2: 1:39

I think he'll be the first cat on this podcast, so let's see if we can capture some recording of him, Awesome. So the purpose of my podcast is that we explore two questions. Question number one is how do we become better people in business? And how do we become better business people? And your topic, the things you speak on, all of those things I think fits into that in a very interesting way. So I'm going to put it to you first. How do you think your work connects to the question of how do we become better people in business?

Speaker 1: 2:18

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 2:19

I've been doing a lot of work lately trying to help people connect with their purpose, and we are at a time where people have come out of the pandemic and people are generally feeling a little more optimistic than they were.

Speaker 1: 2:35

But some people just don't have the drive or energy or commitment level that they might have had pre-pandemic. So my goal these days is to help people reignite that spark and feel that joy again when they go into their job. So for me, it comes very much back to purpose tying into your personal purpose, not just the purpose of your work, but what do you as an individual feel best at when you put a value into what you do? So, for example, for me I like putting fun and kindness into whatever I do, and that just energizes me. Whether I'm taking out the garbage or I'm giving a keynote, it's the same thing. I know what gives me meaning and fulfillment and I bring that in, and so I think people can find the best fulfillment and companies can get the most out of their team when they create a space where you can shine, you can have a bit of autonomy to be your best and bring your values to the workplace.

Speaker 2: 3:43

So I have a couple. I want to double click on that a bit. So the first piece I want to double click on is what's your sort of advice around how people find their purpose on a personal level?

Speaker 1: 3:57

All right, okay, I will do this with you right now and for anyone else who's listening along, I hope that they will try this out. Are you ready, kita?

Speaker 2: 4:06

I am ready, as ready as I'll ever be.

Speaker 1: 4:09

Off the top of your head, can you tell me two people that you admire? And off the top of your head with those two people, can you tell me one virtue or value that you admire about that person?

Speaker 2: 4:23

Yeah, so that's yes and yes. Do you want me to name the two people?

Speaker 1: 4:27

I just want you to name the two values or virtues.

Speaker 2: 4:30

Two values or virtues. One is stick-to-it-ness, is kind of the thing that I really admire about that person, and the second one is thoughtfulness thoughtfulness and stick-to-itiveness I don't know how to describe that, because it's very persistent. They're like, oh my god, they are, they're, and I admire they. They run marathons and I feel like their marathon running applies to a whole bunch of other aspects of their life.

Speaker 1: 5:08

So they will set a goal and then they will just go for it.

Speaker 2: 5:11

Perceive it. Until they reach it, they will persist.

Speaker 1: 5:15

And then the thoughtfulness. Can you tell me a little more about that?

Speaker 2: 5:19

There's somebody in my world who I really admire that almost everything that comes out of their mouth or their right or whatever, is very thoughtful and very well curated from an ideas perspective, and they have no problem telling you hey, let me think about that and come back to you. And what I really admire about this person is that they actually come back to you and they can come back to you like a month later.

Speaker 1: 5:48

That's wonderful. So, instead of just giving you whatever answer pops off the top of their head, they are thoughtful, they are patient, but they also follow up. So that's beautiful. Those two qualities. According to Dr Deepak Chopra, those two qualities are ones that you are looking to express more in your life, and the only way that you can be attracted to those qualities in someone else is because they exist in you and you admire them. So that's one exercise that I do where people can identify these two qualities. And if you were to try having a little more stick-to-itiveness and thoughtfulness in your life for the next 30 days, just tape those words up somewhere or make them the screensaver on your phone. According to that theory, your fulfillment would go up a little bit. Your life is still going to look the same, but your fulfillment might go up.

Speaker 2: 6:47

That's so interesting. I got to think about that for a moment, like I'm going to sit with that one. So thank you, jessica, that's a great exercise.

Speaker 1: 6:55

My pleasure. So I did that years and years ago and the people I thought of were my grandparents, and they are fun and they are kind, and those are the two things that I most admired about them. So I have been wearing it on this bracelet for many years and when I'm in a situation whether it's I'm about to do some public speaking, whether I'm at a crossroads in my life and I don't know which one to pick, or even just if I'm nervous about a situation I have imposter syndrome. I sort of feel like I look at this bracelet and I go.

Speaker 1: 7:31

All I can do is put fun and kindness into it, and then that takes away the pressure for me to be anything other than the best that I can be. I can't be you and I can't be you, but I can be me at my very best, shining the qualities that fulfill me and are most meaningful to me. And it's great because it takes away that imposter syndrome. It takes away my stage fright um, to just go after those things in life. So for me it has increased my fulfillment but also just made decisions easier. Is it fun? Is it? Is it kind?

Speaker 2: 8:04

Yes, If not.

Speaker 1: 8:05

I'm good.

Speaker 2: 8:07

So the second question I wanted to ask was how do people? So? One of the struggles that I have in my own work is how do people connect to the purpose of the organization they work for? You know what I mean. So, like they say, a lot of companies are trying to do purpose and it's performative, so it's more performance than it's actual purpose work. And then people are going into these organizations and then and you may not have an answer to this, and if you don't, that's perfectly fine but how do people connect to that purpose? Would it be places they work or the spaces they spend their time? They're not exactly in their control on that personal level.

Speaker 1: 8:55

Yes. So in that space, I would say the responsibility lies very much with leadership. I like the acronym ARE Is leadership available, responsive and engaged? And sometimes what that means is maybe someone's job isn't the greatest job in the world, but they feel seen and valued and heard by leadership. And so, for example, there are Olympics for housekeepers it happens down in the States every year where they have competitions for who's the best vacuumer, they have competitions for who makes the bed the fastest. So these are all just people who work in housekeeping at various hotels and they compete against each other and they have awards. And the hotels that encourage and pay for their teams to go be a part of this like.

Speaker 1: 9:43

Can you picture how valued and seen and more proud you would feel of the work that you do if you knew that your company saw you that way and recognized you that way? And that is what I feel like leadership can do. What can an individual do? Again, I feel like it comes back to you getting excited about the values that you bring to your job.

Speaker 1: 10:09

So one of my favorite jobs ever was doing data entry down at the CBC, and it was just me typing away every single day. Did I really love putting information in, not so much. But what I liked was I got to be friendly with everyone who came by. I liked that I had a bit of autonomy to daydream, so it was attaching my goals and what meant something to me onto the job. The job itself didn't really matter. It wasn't of any consequence in my life. It wasn't something I was like, yeah'm gonna punch numbers today, but I got excited about going to work because I liked making that job what I wanted, which was a chance to engage people, a chance to be friendly and to have a little space to be creative yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:01

So I think in my world we call that job crafting. So you, you crafted your job so that it became fun for you. I want to apologize to the listeners. I made a misstep. I usually start my podcast by asking people to share a little bit about themselves. Tell us a little bit about who you are and the kind of work you do. I just kind of jumped in and I didn't do that. I skipped that. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: 11:25

I love that. I love getting right to the questions. I also don't mind talking about myself. I will share. I'm Jessica Holmes.

Speaker 1: 11:34

I am a comedian turned mental health advocate and motivator. And the way that that journey went. I did comedy for 15 years exclusively and I was on TV shows like Royal Canadian Air Force. I opened for Oprah Winfrey, I opened for Jerry Seinfeld and then I went through a depression and it lasted about two years and when I came out the other side of the depression I just felt like how can I just get on stage and tell jokes? What I really want to do is make people feel good in a slightly deeper way. And so now I still get on stage and I tell jokes, but I also share mental health tips. I share my journey through depression. And then I also show up with these pom-poms and I cheerlead for people. I um, I try and help people attach to their purpose through these keynotes that I give. So it's it's really been a fun journey. I consider myself first and foremost a motivator and mental health advocate, but I my delivery system is comedy.

Speaker 2: 12:46

Now, that's amazing. I have a question for you and you. You say you, when you came through the other side of depression. Do you? Do you ever really come through the other side of depression, or is that something that? Where's your stance on that?

Speaker 1: 13:02

that's a wonderful question and there are, percentage wise, there are some people who will go in depression and then remain in a certain state of depression. That's very, very hard. Uh, those people are in the minority. Uh, for me, I went through a moderate depression and I would say that even after I came out of the depression, I was feeling quote healthy, but I didn't want to rock the boat. I didn't feel like I had a solid foundation and I always felt like I had to be on the lookout for depression peeking its head over my shoulder, and what I have found is that it's almost like a spectrum Depressed is over here, middle ground is over here and wonderful is over here.

Speaker 1: 13:55

And even though I have been recovered from depression for nine or 10 years, I've only been wonderful for about a year or two, and the years in between were me trying to figure out how do I get from just being okay to thriving? And for me, the thing that I did was to just make tiny, sustainable changes. Nothing big, nothing huge that I would give up on or fail at, just little things that I thought I can commit to, that and I can absolutely do it. So they would be things like joining team sports that I have to show up. My team needs me Starting to do some sun salutations a couple of times a week, getting out in nature every day, making a gratitude list before I go to bed each night.

Speaker 1: 14:55

So these are just little things that positive psychology tells us. They work. They help you feel healthier. They help you feel part of community. The more that I build on those things and the longer I stay true to them, consistent with them, the more solid my foundation feels.

Speaker 1: 15:16

So when I was in that in-between space, if I didn't take care of my mental health every single day, within a couple of days I'd feel like I was slipping back toward depression. But I've been doing it so long now and so consistently now that were I to stop taking care of myself for a couple of days, I would say I'm okay. My foundation is so rock solid and I'm so used to doing the little things to treat myself well, to cut out negative self-talk, to not beat myself up over things. I don't feel I'm not afraid of depression like I used to be, and I've also accepted that if depression were to come back and statistically speaking it could come back if you've been depressed more than once, you have a higher rate of recidivism of it coming back, and I've just accepted it could come back. What got me through it once could get me through it again, and all I can do is put my fun and kindness into the world and cross my fingers.

Speaker 2: 16:24

And keep doing the small things.

Speaker 1: 16:27

Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 16:29

I want to stick with this a little bit because I think it's a taboo topic that so few people talk about, which is why I appreciate your work. The first time I saw you was on stage doing a talk and talk about mental health and using comedy, and you took this very serious topic and made it approachable, so I really appreciate that. My question for you is if you were to go back and give yourself advice while you were in that state of depression, what's the advice you'd give yourself there in that time?

Speaker 1: 17:06

I would not have listened to any advice. Wait a minute.

Speaker 2: 17:11

Let's just pause. Let's just pause at how amazing that is fantastic acknowledgement there. That is so amazing that you just said that, that the awareness that you have, that at the time you would not have listened to the advice, anyway, yeah, anyway, thank you, that was great.

Speaker 1: 17:26

Yeah, Well, no, and that's one of the things. I'm happy that you asked it, because that's what's so hard for people to understand. When they see someone going through depression, they think, but can't you just, but couldn't you just have you tried? And each of those questions just adds to the shame and weight that a person with depression carries. One of the symptoms of depression is you cannot imagine life ever feeling easier than it feels today. So it's really hard to cling to hope or try something new when you're like but it'll never work. I'm a pile of misery. I don't deserve good things, I can't.

Speaker 1: 18:02

But if I could wave a magic wand and if I could make myself believe something when I was in depression, I would have wanted to believe that I'm already enough as I am, wanted to believe that I'm already enough as I am. I think that was the one fundamental belief that followed me through depression was that I'm worthless. I'm not worth saving. I'm incredibly ashamed of myself. Probably other people are ashamed of me and and in the last year or two when specifically mid-pandemic a lot of people who have mental health issues can attest to that we were terrified.

Speaker 1: 18:44

Anyone who's had mental health issues, this pandemic rolls along and you're like this is the big one, what are we going to do? And so I had tried meditating many times years earlier. Didn't work, didn't work. I was like time is money, Isn't it working yet?

Speaker 1: 19:02

And when I tried it again, in total desperation a couple of years ago, because I thought I just can't keep going back to this, I wanted to meditate because I wanted to know that when I go deep enough, I truly feel like I'm enough exactly as I am. I could be enough without this home. I could be enough without my job. I don't need circumstances to tell me whether I'm enough or not. So that is something again, like when I do these gratitude lists or when I go to my breath or when I meditate. That's the love that I am having for myself, of just sinking into the feeling that I'm enough and I'm okay exactly as I am. And that thought I had the opposite of that feeling when I was in depression. So if you could go back and tell me you're enough as you are, I think those words might have been comforting, but I don't know that I could have believed those words at the time.

Speaker 2: 20:08

So one of the things in my own research is we say you want to act before you believe it, so you got to take an action, and then it's the action that then gets you to that belief and forget what the research says. But in your own thinking about how you navigated through that space, do you think just deciding to take the action first, before the belief, would have been helpful? Or do you think the belief coming first and then the action, and it doesn't matter what research says, but yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:40

Yeah, I am a big believer in doing the action first. I think it has a beautiful snowball effect. And, keita, you will love the incredible therapist that I had because she kept telling me the way out. You know, the research says if you do meditation and I was like, well, I'm not doing it, I'll never do it. And so she said okay, then let me ask you this what would get you off your sofa?

Speaker 1: 21:09

And again I was in this sad state where I said nothing and she said well, do you think that a dog would get you off the sofa? And I said, well, maybe, like if it was a really sad dog. And she said well, I'm going to write you a prescription for a sad dog. And she wrote it on the prescription pad, tore it off and handed it to me and said go get a sad dog. And so I came home, my partner and I went out and visited some different shelters and we found a rescue dog who indeed was sad, and I fell in love right away. We brought her home, I looked at her sad and she looked at me sad, and the only thing that made her feel better is if I got up and took her around the block and I had not been around the block in a very long time and I wanted her to be happy. So I would take her around the block more and more and before I knew it, I was running a 5k with that dog every morning.

Speaker 1: 22:16

I had never been a jogger in my life. I am not saying dogs cure depression, but I love that the therapist, instead of telling me what I had to do, I love that she said to me what would get you up, what would get you going? And I like asking audiences that when I talk to them, I like saying what is something that would energize you, something that does get you up and get you moving. So for me it ended up being a dog and I ran a 10K a few years later, which I never in my life thought that I would do. That.

Speaker 1: 22:51

I joined team sports because I knew I'm never going to go do a big workout, but if I know my team is counting on me, I will show up. And I'm a terrible player, but people welcome me with open arms. So I love the idea that these little actions that I took started to have a snowball effect and motivate me and then I started to see myself as a bit more capable. So for me the action came first. I don't know, what has your research told you? Which one do you like?

Speaker 2: 23:25

better. The research says the action comes first. You have to act and then belief. Like waiting for the belief takes longer, but that's what the research says. But I find that a very tricky thing to coach and work with people on, because if you don't believe it, how do you then go and act it? But anyway. So I and sometimes lived experience is different from recent so I believe in acting first and you're demonstrating that. But you also demonstrate something else that I want to double click on as well. I also believe if people believe that other people are counting on them, they do more than they're capable of doing. So in your case it was a puppy and in some case instances it was your teammates. But I honestly believe that if you create a scenario where people believe, hey, I'm counting on you, I'm depending on you to do this thing, people outperform themselves more than they thought they could.

Speaker 1: 24:27

Oh, for sure.

Speaker 2: 24:29

Yeah. What's your thoughts on that?

Speaker 1: 24:31

Yeah, at the time I did not believe I was worth putting the effort in. But I'm not going to let this poor dog sit there and not go for walks. So I would get up and take her for walks. And even in my depression I hid my depression from my kids. So they were out with childcare from, let's say, 8.30 till 5 every day and that was my time to just sit on the sofa and bawl and feel terrible ruminate. But when they came home I would suck it up and try to be present for them. It was very superficial, I'm sure that they saw through it, but I tried to give them my very best, and so I absolutely see where your motivation can come from an outside source.

Speaker 1: 25:26

Another thing that was interesting my mom spent her whole career as a therapist and I said to her that I feel very judged by people that I don't meditate. If people find out I have mental health issues and the first thing they ask is do you meditate? And I said I feel so judged but meditation doesn't work for me. I sit there for two minutes and I feel so uncomfortable and upset that it agitates me, it makes me angry. And my mom said you know, when you're in a state where your feelings are so painful. It's not healthy to be with your feelings in that moment. And I was happy that she said that because A I felt vindicated. It's a meditation crowd, but also meditation crowd.

Speaker 1: 26:20

But also we have to listen to ourselves. We have to be able to trust our own instincts. Is something good for me or bad for me, regardless of what anyone else thinks? Depression is so personal.

Speaker 1: 26:28

I meet a lot of people who come up to me after the show and they say I'm struggling with this thing or that, what can I do? And I always ask them what do you think you could do? What is something that would feel maybe a little good to you? What has energized you in the past? Because there isn't just one cookie cutter set of things that's going to work for everybody across the board. Some depressions are so severe people can't get out of bed for years. Some depressions come and go and people feel always at the mercy of their feelings. And so and I do like the idea of us encouraging people to listen to their own bodies and hearts and minds, to know when something is healthy for them or not healthy for them. And, like I said, I got into meditating a couple of years ago and it has been life-changing for me. But at the start, no, I wasn't having it.

Speaker 2: 27:24

So what's the difference you're hoping to make in the world? So you've embarked on this speaking journey where you're talking about mental health and you're on stages and you're doing comedy, and that, what's the difference you're hoping to make in the world?

Speaker 1: 27:39

My number one thing I want to do is to validate people with the struggles that they have, to just say I see you, I know it's incredibly hard, you're doing amazing, you're doing the best you can do under the circumstances. And I think part of why I want to put that message out is that is the message that made me feel so comforted when I have been at my lowest, whether I'm in depression or not in depression. For example, I just had a family doctor. When my kids were little babies I'd bring them in to see the pediatrician and the pediatrician would end every single meeting with mom you're doing great, great. And he looked like the Quaker Oats guy from when I was a kid. He had this very paternal thing about him. And to have someone tell me you're doing great. Or in another circumstance, there was a friend who would always say oh, I know it's hard, I know it's hard, hang in there.

Speaker 1: 28:41

I think to be validated and to be encouraged feels really good for certain personalities, and I'm one of them. It meant a lot to me, and so that's the number one thing that I want to do. And then the second thing is I have seen the difference in my life that these little baby steps, tiny, sustainable changes make, and so I am a work in progress at figuring out how do I share those in a way that is most palatable to people. So how do I find a comedic way of reminding people get moving? What's a way that you can get moving, because that is a sure energy booster? What is a tiny, sustainable way that you can go a little easier on yourself? That you can go a little easier on yourself. So, creatively speaking, I feel like I have years of work ahead of me in terms of, like, figuring out how to get my message across, but I know what the message is.

Speaker 2: 29:38

Amazing. So let's apply a lot of what you've talked about into how to become better people in business, keeping a mental health kind of lens on that. I don't know if I asked the question, but let's see how that was. How did that work for you?

Speaker 1: 30:04

So we're going again to the question of within the mental health umbrella how do people bring their best selves to work?

Speaker 2: 30:12

Yeah, how do we become better people in business when we start to think about the way mental health influences us and the way we show up in the world?

Speaker 1: 30:31

um, the way we show up in the world. The number one way, I would say, is with empathy, because who knows what people are going through on any given day? Who knows if someone messed up here or there, is it because they're bad at their job or being careless, or is it because they are struggling with something? So when companies create a culture of being okay with bringing the whole self to work a lot of companies I work with that's a motto that they have lately is we want you to bring your whole self to work, and what that means is if you're having a bad day, it's okay. You can scale back on your work a little bit and then you can show up twice as strong when someone else on your team is having their time in a slump. So it's empathy, it's making sure that you have programs in place for if someone is struggling usually an EAP or family plan.

Speaker 1: 31:26

And if you don't have that, if you can just be someone in leadership who listens and validates when someone has shared something and that's something I share with all teams is it is not your job to fix someone. It is not your job to cure anybody. You cannot fix or cure another person's depression. All you can do in your role, in your job, is listen to what the person shares. You can say I'm sorry you're going through that, please tell me about it. They share with you, and then you validate what they have shared by repeating what they say back to them and then adding whatever genuine, authentic sentence you have, whether it's that must be really hard or thank you so much. I can't imagine how difficult that is and I appreciate you trusting me with that. So listening and validating are the two things that are going to go the farthest to make that person feel safe in order for them to start on the path to their own recovery.

Speaker 2: 32:32

I have a question that might sound trite or silly, but when people say to me, hey, start with empathy, I used to get a very blank space because I have no idea what they mean by that. So when you say, hey, empathy, what do we mean by that?

Speaker 1: 32:50

To me, empathy means, even if you can't understand what I'm going through, even if you think it's weird, you want for me to be well and you want for me to be heard. So with any form of mental illness it's the same as with an invisible illness. Oftentimes we don't feel believed that we're struggling and we feel very defensive about what we're struggling with, and that drives a person even further back into their cave of despair because they feel like, well, no one's going to believe me or understand what I'm saying anyway. So when I use the word empathy, what I want most, if I need empathy from someone, I just need them to listen and validate what I've shared. When someone just repeats back to you what you've said, suddenly you feel like, okay, so you don't think I'm making up that.

Speaker 1: 33:42

I have a 600 pound elephant sitting on my chest every day and that's how hard it is for me to get out of bed in the morning. Or to feel like you have an ally at work, simply because someone knows and they're going to keep your information private and they have validated what you've shared or just heard you out in a nonjudgmental way. So I guess the opposite of empathy would be if someone freaked out and got judgmental and blabbed to everyone. So that would be the opposite of empathy.

Speaker 2: 34:18

So let's switch to the second question. Thank you for that. First of all, that was probably one of the best explanations I've heard. I ended up reading like three books on empathy many years ago, because people always say give him an empathetic response and I'd be like, oh, I don't know what that means.

Speaker 1: 34:38

Yeah. And the reason that I don't tell people, oh, use this sentence is it has to come from you, it has to come from your heart. If you would never be someone who would say get well soon or hey, I feel for you, then don't use those words. But what words? What very human words would you find comforting for you to hear in a situation where you're struggling? And those are the words you should use with someone else.

Speaker 1: 35:07

But my number one thing is just don't give advice, because again that compounds the pressure or shame that a person might feel. But to ask, what can I do? That's my number one thing to say to parents whose teenagers are struggling. A lot of people have teenagers who are currently struggling with mental health issues. They don't want to hear your suggestion for what they should do. But if you ask them enough times, hey, I'm here, what can I do for you? You might get a lot of like nothing, but eventually one day, if they do think of something that would be of comfort, they will share it with you because you've been a safe person. You haven't shoveled advice at them, you haven't judged them. You have just said I'm here for you, I'm never leaving, I love you. Can you think of anything I can do for you?

Speaker 2: 36:03

yeah, but yeah. But that takes me full circle back to you're enough. Like that's, that's what I'm hearing. You say tell the person you're let out, the person recognize that they're enough. Or like, like that's, that's what I'm hearing. When you say those things especially like a teenager like you, you are amazing, just the way you are. That kind of thing is what I'm hearing.

Speaker 1: 36:27

Yeah, and especially like social media, is the number one culprit for this rise in depression and anxiety among teenagers, and it's giving people this. You go on it thinking I want connection, I want connection, and the connection is so false and it's so fleeting and it's just constant reminders of not being enough, because everyone's life is so curated and it looks so good and you're not a part of it. So, absolutely, I feel like you are enough, exactly as you are is a great message to be giving teenagers right now so let's switch to the second part.

Speaker 2: 37:04

So the two questions we ask are how do you become better people in business and how do you become better business people? Let's switch to the second part. So the two questions we ask are how do we become better people in business and how do we become better business people? What's your advice to people around how to become better business people?

Speaker 1: 37:18

So this may or may not make sense to you, but in my years of flux, when I wasn't feeling at my best, I felt like I was inconsistent. I felt like I was a candle in the wind. Some days I could show up to my job and be incredible at it, and some days I just had very little left to give, and whether it's replying to emails or writing an article for someone. And so what I learned to do was, on the days when I feel healthy, give everything, give 100%, and on the days when I just don't feel like I have enough to give myself the space to not put out bad work, like I used to feel like, well, I have to post, no matter what. I have to be a part of the machine. I have to keep posting on social media, and I would post stuff that I didn't feel proud of or good about, and it was, you know, I was phoning it in, and so eventually, on a healthy day, I'd have to go back over all of that and delete all of the stuff that was subpar them.

Speaker 1: 38:52

On days when you're feeling off, I would not go in, because it takes a lot longer to undo a bad reputation based on having a bad day than to show up when you know it's bad, when it's unhealthy for you and when you're not going to give anything good anyway. I don't know if that's a helpful answer to give in a business setting because I don't think people want folks calling in sick, but if I'm looking at what is best for the person to give their best at work, I would say if you are struggling with your mental health, do consider taking a leave of absence, do consider taking a mental health day. I think you will give more to your company in the long run if you show up and give your best on your healthy days than if you try and always show up and always be everything to everyone and run yourself ragged trying to keep up when you're not even producing something good anyway.

Speaker 2: 39:53

So, as we close off the podcast, what is one thing you wish people understood? That would make your job a little bit easier.

Speaker 1: 40:02

I feel like I have the best job in the world, like I have the best job in the world. So there's nothing that I think people could do to make my job easier. I love my job so much. One thing that I try and encourage people to do for themselves is to know that you are enough exactly as you are, and to live your values and to treat yourself well and in a healthy way, and that is the thing that makes a person's career take off. My career was at such a standstill when I was just trying so hard to fit in, at a time when I absolutely couldn't. I was trying to be something that I wasn't and when I learned that I'm enough as I am, when I learned that I'm allowed to have boundaries and that being my authentic self is when my best work is produced. Now I would say I'm on a real roll, creatively speaking, with my career.

Speaker 2: 41:04

Do you have a favorite quote?

Speaker 1: 41:06

Yes, and it is about boundaries. It is by Iyanla Van Zandt, and she said my cup runneth over. What's in it belongs to me, what runneth over belongs to y'all.

Speaker 2: 41:20

Nice. And then, finally, one of the questions I like to ask all my guests is where are you seeking comfort when you should be seeking discomfort?

Speaker 1: 41:31

Ooh, I am a procrastinator, and so I often think I'm seeking comfort watching TV when I know what would really make me feel good is to read a book. So look, I get it, I'll go read a book, keita.

Speaker 2: 41:51

I want to thank you for being on today's conversations with Keita Deming is the podcast and being so open and sharing all that you've shared today.

Speaker 1: 42:00

It's my pleasure. Can I ask you what your favorite quote is?

Speaker 2: 42:03

is my. Well, my change is um, but it. The one that I like a lot is that I'm a man of and this is written by written many years ago, so it can be a man or woman, but but I'm a man of fixed and unbending principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times.

Speaker 1: 42:25

That's awesome. Flexibility is key.

Speaker 2: 42:29

Yeah, so that was my favorite quote. So, yeah, all right, any questions, anything you want to share with the audience before we sign off?

Speaker 1: 42:39

Oh, I just want to say hang in there for anyone who is going through a hard time. I'm sure I've talked about this in a way that is very personal to my journey. I hope that I have not offended anyone by not being able to discuss what other people are going through, but I always, always wish everyone the very best with their journey. I know it can be really hard and, and I'm sorry for anyone who is going through a hard time, please do hang in there. You never know if tomorrow is the day when things will turn around.

Speaker 2: 43:16

It's a hard one to follow. Jessica, thank you for all the work that you do. I've been a admirer of your work and thank you for sharing such an important message consistently. So, yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1: 43:30

Oh, my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me Kita.

Speaker 2: 43:32

No problem, and for all of you who joined us today, thank you for listening on another episode of Conversations with Kita Deming. See you next time, where I have another guest who will be exploring two questions how do we become better people in business and how do we become better business people. See you all next time. Thank you for listening to Conversations with Keita Deming. Over the years, I've learned that few things will impact or improve your life more than improving your strategies and having better conversations with the people you wish to serve. If you like today's guest and the idea is shared, please like follow and provide a review. Wherever you listen to podcasts, you can also visit my website, sign up for my newsletter and learn about the release of my upcoming book. I look forward to the next episode, where we'll be in conversation with someone who will help you become a better business person and a better person in business. See you next time.