Charlotta Segerlund-Darnell Psychological Strength for Independent Professionals

Charlotta Segerlund-Darnell helps experienced professionals treat psychological wellbeing as something to maintain, not something to fix after it breaks.

Based in Stockholm and working with clients worldwide, she is a CBT therapist, behavioural scientist, and mindfulness instructor who calls herself a psychological strength trainer because she wants seeking help for mental health to feel like going to the gym rather than going to hospital.

Charlotta covers managing stress as an independent professional, why digital distractions erode the cognitive capacity that solopreneurs depend on, the significance of self-leadership when nobody else is setting boundaries for you, and how proactive mental health care differs from crisis intervention.

She combines coaching and therapy to build the kind of mental resilience that sustains a practice over decades rather than burning through people in years.

Wisepreneurs explores how women over 50 monetize expertise and build sustainable solopreneur practice.

Book discussed: Dopamine Nation by Anna Lembke

Connect with Charlotta
Website: charlottasegerlunddarnell.se
LinkedIn: Charlotta Segerlund-Darnell

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Building Resilience and Mental Wellbeing

Nigel Rawlins 0:36

Hello and welcome to the Wisspreneur's podcast . My name is Nigel Roulans and I work with a range of women who are professionals in their field . They're often 50 to 60 years old who want to start their own business . In this podcast , I'll be interviewing a range of guests who will be able to tell you how they've done it themselves , and others who will give you hints and ideas and tips and maybe the confidence you need to go out and start your own business .

Nigel Rawlins 1:06

I'd like to introduce you to Charlotte Darnell , a cognitive behavioural therapist CBT for short , a behavioural scientist , mindfulness instructor and addiction therapist . However , charlotte identifies more closely as a psychological strength trainer , taking a unique stance on mental health that mirrors physical fitness , blending coaching with therapy . Charlotte helps clients to fortify their mental resilience . Charlotte shares her insights on coping with stress , making healthier life choices and maintaining focus , positivity and self-leadership , especially for those navigating the challenges of self-employment . Join me and Charlotte to explore these themes , aiming to provide you with the tools you need to look after your mental wellbeing . Charlotte , welcome to the Wise Pannerz podcast . Could you tell us something about yourself and where you're from ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 2:01

Hello , nigel , and thank you for inviting me . I'm based in Stockholm , but I accept clients worldwide , of course , because I work digitally . I'm a CBT therapist , a behavioural scientist , mindfulness instructor and also a CBT addiction therapist . I call myself a psychological strength trainer and I use a mix of coaching and therapy in my sessions .

Nigel Rawlins 2:37

Tell me what you mean by a psychological strength trainer .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 2:41

Well , I wanted another title than a therapist or coach , and I've been very interested in the field of resilience how do you stay resilient , which people are more resilient than others , and what do they do . So I use knowledge and experience from that field , but through the word resilience , I just use strength trainer instead , and I also want to de-dramatise seeking help for mental issues . So I wanted to sound a bit like going to the gym , really .

Nigel Rawlins 3:23

I think that's a good approach . So let's talk a little bit about that . What are you coming across in terms of mental health and you work with women or men ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 3:32

I work with both . I actually have more men than women , and I think that's a bit unusual , but it just has ended up like that .

Nigel Rawlins 3:42

Well , sometimes it's not , because sometimes the opposite sex can actually have a different approach . I prefer to work with women .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 3:50

Do you prefer , or has it just happened for you that way ?

Nigel Rawlins 3:54

It's always actually happened , that's interesting .

Nigel Rawlins 3:57

The way it came about is that most of the clients I have and I basically running a marketing services company for about 25 years , most of the people I interact with are women . They might work in a big organisation , but it's the women that I work with . One of my biggest clients is a construction company . The husband runs it , but the wife is the one who works with me . And then I work with some professional women and it works well because women , I think , are very good working cooperatively , so I don't have to do all the work , whereas I think often men expect me to do all the work and the thought's not always there , so I have a preference for working with women and I work well with women .

Nigel Rawlins 4:41

I think I'm gentle , I'm not pushy .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 4:44

Yeah , I feel listening to your podcast and I can understand that now because you're a good listener as well . Not all men are there . I wasn't always a good listener .

Nigel Rawlins 4:54

I think it must be an age thing . Let's go back to some of the mental health issues . What are you seeing out there ? What are the mental health issues that maybe people don't recognise is a mental health issue and that they may not want to seek help ? And is it different between the men and the women ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 5:13

Or ? This is a very interesting question , and I would start with explaining my own perspective on this question , because I think it's important to separate mental sickness with mental health , and I would like more people to be more proactive and interested in being healthy than just searching help when they are sick or feeling really bad or depressed or have anxiety . So in a perfect world , I would like people to seek help early when they recognise I use wine as stress management , I'm not feeling happy , I don't have energy . That's not being mentally healthy . That's when you're going to do something about your mental health . The question is if women and men seek help for different issues . I would say women seek help earlier than men . When men contact me and say they have some problem with stress , it's often very much severe problems than when a woman says it's a test . That's my experience .

Nigel Rawlins 6:32

That is my concern too . The thought that popped into my head as you were saying . That is , we go out and we do all our exercise to get nice and fit , but we don't practise looking after our mental health as we do after our exercising . So , unfortunately , I'm assuming that when somebody is deeply under stress , it's very difficult to counteract that . What do you do in that situation ? And then I'd like to go back and talk about how do we actually build resilience ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 7:00

So if someone is very stressed or , so to speak , always look at how do you sleep , how are your days , what stress management do you use already ? And it's super important to see where they are . How close are they to a burnout ? Because if they are very , very close , you shouldn't give them advice , as you should exercise intensively . This is a problem with some coaches that use the same model on every client . They maybe don't have the academic background , so they can't really see where they are , but it's super important to get this straight , because if you are not sleeping well , if you have a lot of symptoms , you should just calm down the system for a while . You shouldn't do extensive work with anything really . So that's super important to look at .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 8:00

Many people search in an earlier stage . When they are , they are feeling I don't have the energy levels that I used to have , I don't feel motivated for almost anything or so , and then I always look at what kind of things are they using ? Are they using a lot of wits ? Are they binge watching Netflix ? Are they scrolling on social media ? And all those things can lower our baseline of dopamine . And I think it's a great book . Amna Lemken , dopamine Nation is a book that I think many modern people would benefit from reading , because we are all in this modern world and we have these triggers everywhere around us . So if someone comes in and just have low energy and not feeling motivated as they used to be , I would look at things like that as well .

Nigel Rawlins 9:03

That's critical because they've got to start somewhere . But the first thing they've got to do is recognize that they're having a problem . One of the things I'm noticing a lot and I have three children , they're all grown up one of them particularly is just quit work because he was suffering a lot of anxiety . But he's in a very good position because he owns his house and he's young . But his anxiety got to the point where he stopped work and he's decided to travel around Australia for a couple of years . But because he's a trades person or tradesman , he can work anywhere and he's got three trades so he's not worried about money , he's well off .

Nigel Rawlins 9:43

But the anxiety was so bad that he just had to quit work and he's been unwell and he knows he's just got to get out there and I think it'll disappear when he starts moving forward . But Are you noticing there's more anxiety in the world today ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 9:58

It's more anxiety , it's more depression , it's more feeling just not happy . And it's a complex question to answer , but I'm quite sure and I don't want to sound like a boomer hating the internet , but I mean , we are constantly interrupted by things . Really , our brain aren't made to be like this and you and I , before we started recording , we were just talking about books and how we love to read , and I can see people in middle age or younger who has been big readers , who have loved reading books , but they say I just can't find the peace to sit with a book and read . And that's also a warning sign because then I would guess , you have lowered your baseline of a dopamine . You need stronger stimuli to get motivated . So sometimes it's something like that that can make people feel depressed and anxious because they are stressed .

Nigel Rawlins 11:08

Really , I see the world is just full of distractions now and , as we know , with the algorithms , devices are designed to keep us scrolling .

Nigel Rawlins 11:18

I go on Twitter and I can disappear in there for half an hour . There's so much good stuff in there . But I find wonderful articles and some wonderful information and some great books . But also you get a skewed idea of what's happening in certain countries , and that's a problem too . You think , oh , they're all demonstrating in London or something like that , and it's just a snippet . I mean , news has always been like that to grab your attention . But nowadays there's so much attention grabbing out there , just like when we look on LinkedIn and we scroll down and everyone's got something to say , so it could be a bit overwhelming . So what are some steps that people can do to start building their resilience ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 12:40

When you look at people who are more resilient than the average person I mean , bad things happen to them as well , but they bounce back more easily . So when you look at them , you see that they have on a group level , of course more optimistic mindsets . They see themselves and others in the world in a more optimistic way , and optimistic doesn't have to be . They are happy all the time , but they are constructive thinkers . They also have good cognitive skills . That's a big area in itself . They have good stress management . They have strong social bonds . They also don't have many bad social relationships . They end them or whatever . They also have a sense of purpose . They are also value driven . So it's a big , big field and I don't know if you're interested in this with the blue zones on the planet , have you ?

Nigel Rawlins 13:47

All the blue zones .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 13:48

Yeah , because I can't help making the parallel with the blue zones , because , when you look at , the blue zones are some areas in the world where people live long and happy and healthy lives and they don't need me , they don't need therapists and coaches , they just seem to have a good lives and they , too , have this good physical health . I didn't mention that . That's super important as well . They move all the time , they have strong connection in the community , they have strong social bonds , they eat healthy food , so I would say they are also resilient . They are also recovering quickly from setbacks .

Nigel Rawlins 14:34

I think that's important . What you're saying is about the movement , but it also makes me think that they do get outside a lot more ,

Sedentary Health and Wellness Tips

Nigel Rawlins 14:42

because I think a lot of us , if we're working in the knowledge economy , we're sitting at a desk in front of a computer and I know myself now that , especially when you have to think and the world is more complex now and with all the disruptions , if you're trying to do something , it's mentally difficult and your brain gets to a point where gee and that's an issue , because I think in past times when we worked in factories or we produced things , you could see that you created something and finished it . Like if you work in a car plant , the car , you do your bit and the car gets built . But when you work in knowledge work , it's in our heads and you wonder at the end of the day , what did I do ? And the end of a week Plus you were sitting down all day . I mean , do you think that that's got patterned with what's going ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 15:31

on . So glad that you brought that up because I forgot to say about that . But many people sit down eight or nine or 13 hours a day . It's not healthy . It's not healthy for your body , it affects your longevity , it affects your psychological strengths or resilience . And then the sun exposure early in the morning . Many people don't get that and many freelancers who have had works before have been to an office before . Maybe they did get the sunlight in the morning then , but now they're working from home and choose their hours and it's easy to forget importance of early sunlight exposure because that affects how you sleep in the night and so on .

Nigel Rawlins 16:19

Totally agree with that . That's part of my routine is to get out and walk in the morning , and I'm very lucky because I live in a small country town and I can walk down to a bay , and so hello to all the dogs who come running up to me .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 16:33

Oh , lovely yeah .

Nigel Rawlins 16:36

But yes , you're right . I now spend most of my time sitting down in front of computer screens and writing and occasionally do some quiet work . But I've noticed , especially at my age , I'm starting to get fat around the middle and I'm thinking well , it could be an age thing , but I've realized it's because I'm sitting a lot . So , you know , one of the things I do is try and set my timer for 25 minutes and get up .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 17:01

Yes and move .

Nigel Rawlins 17:04

I'll go outside because we've got a lovely garden with vegetables and fruit trees . I'll go and dig up some weeds or mow the lawn .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 17:12

Yeah , you're blue-sowning your life , Nigel .

Nigel Rawlins 17:17

Yeah , but I have to force myself to do it but sometimes I won't . I'm intensely working it and I feel the strain in the middle of my back and I'm thinking that must be the life for an awful lot of people .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 17:28

Oh yes , oh yes . I always recommend people to do this breathing exercise in the flow of work , and also the progressive . How do you say that ? It's a stress management tool where you contract your muscles in all your muscle groups , from the toes to your neck . The relaxation , because the tensions builds up in our bodies .

Nigel Rawlins 17:53

We are supposed to move Well one of the concerns I get because you know I'll go to the supermarket and shop is the posture that people have . I'm seeing a lot of neck's forward , bent backs and , unfortunately , a lot of overweight people which I think when you're sedentary and you're not exercising a lot and , believe it or not , I exercise an awful lot and it doesn't do much . I guess people don't realize this exercise might use up 600 calories or killer calories , but a doughnut is the same .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 18:25

Yeah , yeah , you can eat one doughnut and you have just Exactly when you have put on weight and I have clients now who I work with who are also going to lose weight I think you have to realize that for a while in your life you have to be on a diet in some form , because it will not be enough to just move and eat better for a while . And I say this because often when people start to diet after a couple of weeks they get a small depression and are like am I going to live like this forever ? I can't stand this , but it's not forever . You just have to do this because it's impossible to move as much so you lose weight . It's not possible when you have extra kilos on your body , I mean , just a few is possible , but if you have a lot it's not possible . You have to have a diet for a while .

Nigel Rawlins 19:22

So let's just talk about that for a moment . When we talk about diet , you do have to cut your calories back , but you cut them back by avoiding chocolates and things with lots of sugar , processed foods , white bread All of those are incredible . When you use a calorie counter and you click it in , a couple of slices of beautiful bread is a lot of calories . It's quite astounding . I do count my calories now . I notice if I have some alcohol , how many calories are in there . I know that you've got to be careful about saying calories in and calories out , but it is about a better food .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 19:58

It's not really the truth that it's a calorie in and a calorie out , because the calorie in could be something healthy with high fibers and good nutrition , and or it can be . Just how do you say empty calories ?

Nigel Rawlins 20:16

when we're talking about the blue zones . Most of their food would be unprocessed .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 20:21

Sad about the blue zone in Japan , the Okinawa . I heard something about that . Mcdonald's came to town and they're not the blue zone anymore , but I don't know if it's true . I hope .

Nigel Rawlins 20:35

Sometimes we see photographs from people on the beach from the 1970s and they're all lean . And I remember

Health, Longevity, and Self-Leadership

Nigel Rawlins 20:42

myself . I was very skinny 1970 and I remember the food . It was just basic food . We did have supermarkets with lots of stuff , but we just had steak and vegetables .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 20:54

Yeah , I ate my first burger . When I was , I think , 11 or so , they opened a Fast-food restaurant in the town I live , but I think it's so important . Now we're talking about weight and it's a lot of shame around the subject , so I think it's so important . Why am I talking about weight ? And that is because it's about health , and it's Both about cardiovascular health and how long you're gonna live . But it's also about psychological health and mental well-being . It affects those areas to High degree . It also affects the brain . So we want to be this lifelong learners and if we are overweight , it will affect our brains as well . So it's from the health perspective . It's not from any shaming perspective or how we look , how the parents are , or something like that . That's important to say .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 21:59

And I have had one client . She first came in and she wanted to work with her self-esteem and so on , and After some sessions , we we just worked around food , because food is something that we we do several times a day and if every time we eat , something can connect it . It is this good for me ? Is this beneficial for my mental and physical health ? Does it provide me with the nutrition that is important for me ? It also is connected to how you feel about yourself . How do I to take care of myself ? How important do I think my health is psychological health and Physiological health . That is connected .

Nigel Rawlins 22:45

I read an awful lot about longevity and I think things that are coming through loud and clear to me at the moment , especially as we get older , is our bodies do deteriorate after a period of time if we let them go , and Strength training is one of those . I think flexibility is another area , and distress reduction as we get old , because if we let those go , they're the things that are going to reduce our life spans .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 23:11

So they are some of those with the longevity .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 23:14

The thing I like the most with a Perspective is that it's a perspective that doesn't just accept that we get sick and all . It has an completely another mindset around aging and For me , it's not that I want to live a till I'm 120 even if I think we will maybe do that Some of us but it's about having a healthy lifespan . So where were I ? Longevity Movement , where were we ? Were at food , strength exercise ? Yeah , the body ages , not your whole body . Are the same age . You can measure the brain , you can measure the skin . You can measure all that and the way I see it , I can do what I can do .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 24:11

I know I lose muscles with a high percentage every year . I'm 52 now . Since I was 30 something . My muscles are declining if I don't do something about it and I don't want to To get weak and sick , fall and stuff like that , if I can prevent that . But then I had to go to the gym , really have to go and lift heavy weights and the flexibility as well it . If I don't do my yoga . I go to a big room yoga , I get super stiff . I have morning stiff for it . That's everyone else . So I do the yoga and I don't have that . So , some longevity nerds they are , they are really into this , this famous millionaire guy who spends two billion dollars or whatever it is . But I think it's a fun experiment because this experiment we have when we eat with Western world . We eat Processed food , we don't get sunlight with it 10 hours a day . So I think it's fun that is experimenting in that way and we can learn something from that .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 25:24

I'm not going to eat hundreds supplements , but I Can follow him and see what's happening when he does and you know it sounds very much like what we're talking about getting sunlight moving more , eating Unprocessed foods .

Nigel Rawlins 25:39

It sounds like early human , because early humans in In the nomadic lifestyle that's what they do and then we have the microbiomes in our stomachs , the guttel .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 25:53

Have you been rabbit-holing in that area as well ? Yeah , yes , me too for a couple of years now .

Nigel Rawlins 26:02

We should explain it a bit more .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 26:04

Yeah , and that's not easy to explain because this popular popular rise version that it's that we have good bacterias and bad bacterias in our gut . That's not really true but I'm not going in there really that deep . But but the bacteria is in our stomach and our whole body , that they affect our health . Their effect are all over physiological health and they also affect our , our psychological , our mental health . When you have a good balance very simplified you feel better and you all also live better life , better health span and you feel happier .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 26:52

Because it affects our brain and I mean dopamine and serotonin , especially serotonin . That affects our moods and motivation and everything it produces in the stomach , not in our brain . So it's a proven connection to get in the brain and when we process food , for example , that Does nothing good for our gut health . And when we eat in a lot of the greens and the different kinds of greens and so on , it's good for our gut health . But it's much more complicated than this and there are so many interesting experiments . When you transplant one mice Bacterias to another mice and the mice get the same . If the fat mice get the thin mice Bacteria , that might get thin and we have actually done experience in humans , with this as well , and with the same results in those .

Nigel Rawlins 27:54

It's fascinating , isn't it ? So we were speaking about mental health and building resilience , and it's not as simple as it sounds , doesn't it's ? You know , we have to work on our bodies and that's on our minds , on our Food , on our strength , so we're a bit more complicated . The interesting thing about bacteria is Mm-hmm . Bacteria is like a time traveler with us . Yeah , really not part of being human , it's , it's in there .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 28:23

Yeah , it's so fascinating , but I heard someone say a thing that I think it's Corrected when you eat healthy Nutrition , dense food with high fibers , you are feeding yourself . But when you eat high in sugars and fast food and everything , you're feeding your bacteria . But the bad ones .

Nigel Rawlins 28:45

Yeah , that's important to realize too . But one of the concerns I have is I don't drink a lot of alkan anymore . I still enjoy a glass of wine occasionally , but not a lot anymore . So sometimes I can go for a week . A lot of people come home from work and they will drink what they call a glass of wine , but it's actually probably two glasses , one or more or the whole bottle , sometimes too , every night . What do you think that's doing to them ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 29:12

Yeah , they help them to fall asleep , but 100% Ruin their deep sleep . So someone said something and it's just funny , it's not an advice but drink your alcohol in the morning so it doesn't ruin your sleep , for one , it affects their deep sleep tonight , that night . So that will be a problem in the long run . Just after a couple of weeks doing that , you will Experience high level of stress and low levels of motivation and stuff like that because you haven't got enough deep sleep . So that will happen . And of course , as we were talking about before the dope I mean when we are sometimes eating a bit of chocolate , some sometimes having a glass of wine , sometimes been watching netflix , sometimes scrolling on the internet it's not a problem . The baseline of the main will Remain the same . But when we start doing things like that alcohol , chocolate , shopping online , whatever , to often we are experimenting with a baseline of the open . So if the baseline of the main is lowering , we will experience less motivation and feeling less happy and experience more depression and exited .

Nigel Rawlins 30:38

Yes , I think so . I find that too , and I guess a lot of people nowadays have smartwatches that they can measure these sorts of things and they're asleep apps . I do notice . I keep an eye on my sleep .

Nigel Rawlins 30:52

I'm happy if I get some nice deep sleep yeah but if I've had a couple of glasses of wine , the deep sleep is gone and does affect my heart rate and all that . Yeah , but I'm probably more aware because I don't drink as much anymore . Like I might go for a week or two without drinking and now I prefer , if I'm going to have a drink , it's social when I go out and only one glass and really enjoy that glass , yeah , rather than chug it down . Let's talk a little bit about self leadership . What does that mean to you and how do we do that ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 31:26

It has become a popular word or concept and it's science from the 1980s , but it's become popular after the pandemic . Really , I think that because people are working from home and they had to lead themselves in a new way . So the way I see it , the way I use self leadership is it's a lot of a mindset thing who is who's leading me ? Am I reacting to the world ? Or can I be proactive with certain areas ? And for people who run their own business or our freelance or whatever ? Self leadership , whatever you fill it with , is something that your CIO of your own life ,

Maintaining Self-Leadership for Freelancers

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 32:14

your health is your problem and needs your solutions . Your finances , your marketing , everything is in that self leadership , but it's different from for person to person . What we fill it with , the mindset this is me , the business is you . As I said , no one is coming .

Nigel Rawlins 32:36

That's an interesting point because , for example , if you are a freelancer or yourself employed and decided to move out of work , you do have to manage yourself . And the interesting thing about working for yourself is your brain is what we call your capital . I mean you can have money in the bank . The brain is how you're going to earn your living nowadays , unless , of course , you're using your hands and you'll still use your brain , then most of us don't tend to use our hands so much anymore , apart from typing and picking up things . That's the whole point about our conversation is how do we maintain that ability to keep working ? What are your thoughts on that ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 33:14

I think it's important to realize that we are at least the one I've been working with so far our knowledge workers . So we are using our brain as a tool . That is our tool , and we have to find ways so that the brain can rest . Because we can't be on all the time , we will not do a good job , we will not Be able to learn new things , for example , if we are on all the time . We have to find ways to rest from what we're doing , and the way people do it are diverse . Of course , some people like to block time for focus time or Try to get in a flow state , and there are many different tools and they are suitable for different personality , really but the brain has to rest between the reps , so to speak yes , that's an important concept .

Nigel Rawlins 34:16

What I realize and I've been working for myself probably 25 years now- is that In an hour I can often do an awful lot .

Nigel Rawlins 34:24

Now I do marketing services . That means I find somebody to do this and do that and do this , or I can do it , and I can do it fairly fast in an hour because I'm used to doing that . Now , where's I think if I worked in an office might take me all day or a week ? Yes , something done . Yes , and that's what I think the people working from home for themselves don't realize Is that I don't have all those distractions . So an hour of their time can be quite intense mentally and that is where you need the break some people have this natural In them .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 34:58

They just work and they go and do something else clean up the apartment , go to gym and whatever . If you don't have that , that , your days look like you totally exhausted in the end of the day . Or Then you can put an alarm like I work for 90 minutes and then I have a 15 minutes break . The way you feel , are you feeling happy or are you feeling sad and exhausted and stressed ? All the time has to be the guide , for if you're going to change anything so you're saying you really gotta listen to yourself .

Nigel Rawlins 35:32

Have Google and Siri and I just say , look , time me for 25 minutes . Get an alarm and off I go . Yeah a lot of people who work from home sort of feel guilty about being distracted and going off and do the dishes or hanging out the washing , and I think that's all good , as long as they figured out that they need to do these tasks . But I sometimes think we try and do too many things in a day some , some people do too much in a day and the others procrastinate .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 36:00

A lot is so individual , but running your own business you are never done .

Nigel Rawlins 36:07

You have always things to do and that you have to accept that somehow that's one of my concerns at the moment is in my marketing services work . I sometimes work with trades people or tradesmen mostly men . What they find is , once their business gets very busy and they've got a number of people working for them , they get so bound up in there that they lose their relationship . And I've been hearing very wealthy trades people just building houses and I've got a whole big team and they're turning over lots of money but their relationship at home is gone to the dogs , they come home and they will drink heavily .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 36:47

Yeah , that's my clients . You know I have clients like that and I have a still have , because I was more into leadership coaching before , so I still have more see I go than I have freelancers and I have more entrepreneurs and I have freelancers . Yes , but I'm going to the freelancer side more and more . But it's so sad when you meet this man it's often man that they are in their 60s and they have this amazing careers , they have all the money they need and so on , but they have missed the relationships in their lives and they often drink a lot . It's sad , but you can really strengthen relationships , even if it has been 40 years of this .

Nigel Rawlins 37:35

Well , the point I try and make to them is okay , you need to figure out how you're managing this business so you actually have time where you don't go home stressed and tired and neglect your relationship and just do the routine . But it'll be a tough call .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 37:50

The sort of way I would do is I grab them by the ears and say , buddy , but you can't do that , but I probably can physically the sad part is that they often come when , when things have gone so far , when their divorce is a fact or when they are drinking so heavily that they really have an addiction . So please come earlier . It just feels like a big step . Come just a little bit earlier , please , because it's not that big step as they think in their head that they are , because they don't want to acknowledge weakness . Often it's been their life goal to appear strong every day and every second .

Nigel Rawlins 38:34

Guys probably left school young and worked hard and most of the big businesses around my town are trade space businesses because they've been working 20 or 30 years . But I am hearing that story and it worries me because I had that same issue when I first started out . I lost the plot and men do what you've said to me , and it's very clear , is those people are working home , probably the freelancers , mostly the freelancers I probably not sure about how to actually structure their lives and keep on top of it because they're probably working away and they're neglecting the health , neglecting their mental health . What are some takeaways that you would suggest to the freelancers right now to reflect on ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 39:19

well if they can see themselves as the leader they would like to have . I think it's sometimes easier because we are so hard on ourselves . So if they sit down and just say if I was another person leading myself , what would I like that person to do ? Maybe I would like to celebrate my wins , reflect on a project that went well , or give me some time off when I have been working hard , and just be that kind of person to yourself .

Nigel Rawlins 39:55

I think maybe we'll end up with some AI that's going to do that .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 39:59

You can actually start right now . This is my day , this is my work task . Can you be a coaching leader for me ? It can be that . Of course , you can use AI already for that .

Nigel Rawlins 40:11

I can see the value of having a coach like you , just to keep balanced , to reflect on what they're doing , even if it's once a month that you talk to somebody , if you are self-employed , to just check on things . Okay , how's your health , how's your diet going ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 40:28

Yeah , and you have accountability partners .

Nigel Rawlins 40:30

I was very lucky I had a mentor for maybe 20 years until he passed away

Growth Mindset and Lifelong Learning

Nigel Rawlins 40:37

as you get older , unfortunately , this is what happens .

Nigel Rawlins 40:39

People do start passing away . We would talk every day and we would talk through issues . It was at a fairly high level , a very strategic level , but it really did help me . Now I've been without him for a couple of years and suddenly I'm doing podcasting and talking to people all over the world like yourself , which has been wonderful . Well , at this point , is there something else you would like to raise that we haven't spoken about ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 41:06

Oh God , it's so much I like to speak about . What have we missed ? What have we talked about ?

Nigel Rawlins 41:14

I think we've spoken about lots of things . We've talked about stress management , self-leadership .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 41:18

We haven't talked about growth mindset and learning new stuff .

Nigel Rawlins 41:23

Okay , let's do that , Charlotte . What are your thoughts on that ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 41:26

I'm also so interested in your thoughts about that because we have to be in lifelong learning . That's a fact . I think we also have to embrace that Carol Dweck researched about different mindsets . I think that's a very genuine work and she had studied a really large group because she studied students and so Really simplified . We have these two mindsets , but we can have them in ourselves .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 41:58

I can have a fixed mindset in one area and a growth mindset in another area . You don't get one mindset or stuck with that mindset for life . But in the fixed mindset your goal is to show others that you are knowledgeable , that you are an expert . Your biggest fear is to be exposed as a failure , impostor or so . And in the growth mindset you want to be in new learning all the time . You want to feel like the dumbest person in the room because you know that then I'm learning new stuff . You want to learn To be in lifelong learning .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 42:40

It's very beneficial of course everyone gets that to have a growth mindset and you can test yourself and you can add some words . And this sounds very pop psychology , but it actually works when you say I'm not good at X , y , something and then you add yet it's a different perspective . I'm not good at social media or marketing yet , so you always open up to you . But I can learn with effort and so on . I can learn , as everyone can learn . If I don't have a talent in that field . It may take a longer time , but I can always learn . But you have to get rid of that fear of being exposed as a failure . You have to get rid of that . You have to start enjoying being bad first .

Nigel Rawlins 43:34

Really , I totally agree with that , because you've got to try to figure it out , but I guess a lot of people give it up too early . I'm a bit of a junkie with online courses . I paid for lots of them but I haven't even started half of them . I try and use a Thursday . It's Thursday today for me that's good .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 43:51

That's good to have one day of learning .

Nigel Rawlins 43:54

I do try . I realize , and I guess everyone needs to realize , they can't be an expert at everything , but they do need to try and continue finding out new stuff . And that's the danger is , there is so much out there that you can be overly curious . And so sometimes you need to manage that . One of the concerns I do have is that I find I have been working with some very intelligent women . They underestimate how smart they are . That's a worry .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 44:23

Sometimes they can have a bit of an imposter syndrome or a fixed mindset , because often when you have been very talented in one field or area , you get a lot of compliments and you get to hear a lot of how great you are at something and that can become connected to your self esteem that I have to be good , I have to , I have to be perfect , I have to be good , otherwise I'm bad . I'm bad at everything I'm exposed . So sometimes it's about having a talent , getting a lot of compliment for that and then starting to incorporate that into your self esteem that this is my worth . I'm a good person . I'm always great at what I do .

Nigel Rawlins 45:11

That's great . Now we were also talking about reading before that . Not a lot of people read anymore .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 45:16

No , why do you think that is ?

Nigel Rawlins 45:18

I think there's so much distraction and there's YouTube and to this podcast . I know that my three children one has a sociology degree . She hasn't read much anymore . My two boys one's an electrician , one's a carpenter they don't read much but when they're seeking information they seek it on YouTube or they seek it from their friends if they need some advice . I just get that feeling that there's not a lot going on there .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 45:46

No , I know I'm a big reader and I have been since I was a child . I have four children from the age of 12 to 26 . I thought that would come naturally because I read a lot for them and we have a lot of books and everything . But that hasn't happened . I have forced them sometimes , but we live in a world where information is all over the place and it doesn't have to be a bad thing that I don't read . It's just a different world . We couldn't do so much . We had to read .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 46:21

But my concern is that I can see that many people they don't have the stress levels right . I think they have a low baseline of dopamine . I think they have too strong exposure to fast digested foods and the algorithm on YouTube and social media platforms . It lowers our attention span really and I don't think that's good . And a lot of people they seem to not think they see them because they go on retreats a couple of times a year , so they have a feeling . I have to reset my brain . I have to just do nothing in a quiet room for a while . I have a dream I would love to , in a couple of years , do only retreats all over the world . So I love retreats , but it's something wrong with the world when we have this . I live this life . It's too much , all the time and two times a year . I just shut everything down for a week .

Nigel Rawlins 47:27

The concentration span is reflected in a lot of the popular movies . Now I'm understanding that each scene is about two seconds long , the cuts are two seconds . So you're right , being able to sit down and read for , say , 20 minutes , that would take a lot of concentration . I try and do that a couple of sessions a day , about 50 minutes to 70 minutes of reading , but then again I've got the luxury of being able to do that . I don't have to go to a job apart from my own , and people have to figure out how that can fit into their day , maybe watch less .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 47:59

TV and figure out . Is it that I don't want to read ? I mean , that's okay , I guess or is it that I can't find the peace in my body and mind to sit down and read ? I would say that's a warning sign of high stress levels and maybe a lower baseline of dopamine .

Nigel Rawlins 48:20

Yes , now that sounds great . All right , we're probably coming to the end . Now what ways would you like people to connect with you ?

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 48:27

Or they can connect on LinkedIn . So I think you have the

Ways to Connect With Charlotte

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 48:31

link in your podcast .

Nigel Rawlins 48:32

I'll put that in the show notes .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 48:34

Yeah , and of course I have my homepage and just an email away if you want to connect like that .

Nigel Rawlins 48:42

I'll put all of those in the show notes . So , charlotte , thank you very much for joining me on the podcast today . You've been a wonderful guest and I'm hoping people are realizing that a coach like yourself would be very , very helpful to get them focused on what they need , especially if they're procrastinating . So thank you again for joining me .

Charlotta (Segerlund) Darnell 49:03

Yeah , thank you so much for having me . It was nice talking to you today Lovely , thank you .

Nigel Rawlins 49:09

I'm looking forward to continuing to provide you with engaging and informative episodes to help you level up in your entrepreneurial journey . Thank you for joining me on the Vice Penors podcast .