MIPIM, The COM1 Marketing Conference and legislative measures around student tenancy lengths

This Week on Our Podcast: Sustainability, Legislation and Property Insights

What's in store for you in this episode?

- Exclusive insights from our firsthand experiences at the MIPIM event
- Key takeaways from the COM1 marketing conference focused on sustainability
- A discussion around the latest legislative changes impacting student tenancy lengths and what it spells for the future of shared living

Don't miss out on this episode packed with valuable information for everyone in the real estate and shared housing sector. Whether you're just starting out or have been in the industry for a while, we've got something for you.

Housed: The Shared Living Podcast aims to bring the latest news, views and insights to the shared living sector.

Each week, Sarah Canning, Deenie Lee of The Property Marketing Strategists and Daniel Smith of Student Housing Consultancy will be delving into a wide variety of subjects and asking the questions that aren't often asked. This podcast is for anyone who works in Student Accommodation, BTR, Co-living, Operational Real Estate or Shared Living.

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are the personal views of the individual hosts.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Hello and welcome to the eighth episode of House, the shared living podcast. I'm Deena Lee from the Property Marketing Strategists.

SPEAKER_00: 0:08

I'm Dan Smith from Student Housing Consultancy.

SPEAKER_01: 0:12

And I'm Sarah Canning from the Property Marketing Strategists. So firstly, we want

SPEAKER_02: 0:17

to wish a very happy Easter to all those observe and we hope everyone enjoys the weekend. So to keep the theme of Easter, why don't we find out what your favourite Easter egg is? Come on, Sarah, you must have one. I'm sure

SPEAKER_01: 0:30

well I was thinking about this and I don't eat dairy and quite frankly dairy-free easter eggs are quite rubbish and they taste quite plastically quite synthetic so I go for the really posh dark chocolate ones um ideally something like hotel chocolat that's really rich and lovely but yeah gone are the days when I remember I used to get like you remember those smarties eggs where they have the smarties in the middle of the egg and then I used to like break it up and then I'll keep it in my fridge for ages and just like nibble at it no that doesn't happen anymore it won't last not more than two or three days but yeah that's what I like posh ones

SPEAKER_00: 1:10

the wonders of intolerances as you get older eh mine would be your bog standard Cadbury cream egg but yeah I'm quite lucky my mum always sends me a little she sends me a Cadbury advent calendar or a Cadbury easter egg or whatever it might be so yeah I'll go with standard yeah no she's she's always done that and then there's there's the odd year that she forgets and there's absolute uproar in our family if mum forgets the advent calendars or the easter eggs so bless her she she does tend to remember now

SPEAKER_02: 1:37

I don't think I've had one for the very reason that you just said Sarah that if you're vegan and you don't have dairy they're pretty rubbish really and that's coupled with the fact that I actually my dad was a market trader who sold sweets so Easter was a really really really busy time and our garage was full to the brim of sweets and chocolates and I was never allowed to eat any because it was profit margin So I didn't really have, we didn't have chocolate in the house apart from the garage being full of it. And when I did get Easter eggs, I'd make them last till Christmas because then I could have some chocolates. And I still try and make my kids do that. They hate me for it. Yeah, I tried not to make them eat it all on day one.

SPEAKER_00: 2:16

We made gratification. It's impossible to teach kids that, to be honest with you. But yeah, good stuff. What have you both been up to this week?

SPEAKER_01: 2:25

I think the highlights for me, I don't know, Dini, if you would agree, is that we attended the COM1 conference which was hosted by Michelle Carville and Gemma Butler who are behind Can Marketing Save the Planet podcast and they've also written two wonderful books about marketing with sustainable messages and it was the first one hence it was called COM1 and it's kind of a bit of a take on COP28 or wherever we are so it's intended to be the first of a series of conferences and it was nice not being around real estate property people because it really gave us a breadth of different industries and different

SPEAKER_02: 3:06

learnings. It was a really really good event and I think it was just really inspiring that it was a small amount of marketers but it was a good room of marketers that were focused on trying to make businesses sustainable and profitable and I think that is the key thing is that actually you can do both and there is ways to do both so it was a really great place to be really I think and quite inspiring to go.

SPEAKER_00: 3:27

I've read Michelle's books and I think there's so much potential there in terms of marketing, not just in terms of how we talk about sustainability, but the role that marketing can actually play in positively impacting environmental, social and governance areas of running a business. What were the sort of main takeouts?

SPEAKER_02: 3:46

One thing that

SPEAKER_00: 3:47

was

SPEAKER_01: 3:48

a bit of a light bulb moment for me was we talk a lot about saving the planet and net zero and carbon reduction, but that's really intangible. You know, what do all of those statements actually mean? And the general thought of the room is that consumers don't believe them with statements such as those. So you really need to boil it down to what matters to the consumer in almost like the lowest denomination. You know, what matters to them locally? What matters to them to their demographic rather than these big, big messages?

SPEAKER_02: 4:22

So I think for me, it was the collaboration piece that I think marketing is a central part of that communication piece and that way to move forward. But I think there's also an element that actually you can't do it as a silo department. You've got to engage with everyone. You've got to make sure that there is that that wider vision that everyone's aligning to and everyone's doing their bit and trying to do that bit. And I think the other thing that I was going to say is that I think from a real estate perspective, there wasn't lots of real estate there. It was a lot of already organisations that have been developed as a B Corp or very much trying to do. I think there's one or two industrial makers, manufacturers there that are trying to be more sustainable. But I guess ultimately to have that impact, you need to get people who haven't really started that journey don't know where to start that journey to inspire them to do more and i think that hopefully is as the kind of the trend and ethos grows and develops that that we'll see more of that that people go there on a fact-finding mission not just because they're already doing great things and on that journey

SPEAKER_00: 5:23

i think there's a real misconception on what you know esg or sustainability really means and who we should be talking to and i don't think enough operators are actually talking to their residents about sustainability or communicating you know what that what that should mean to them or how they can have a positive impact on their residents' lifestyles. I think there's a real focus on the B2B side, and in particular, the investor side of sustainability. And that's borne out in Gresp scores and, you know, CREM and Fitwell and BREEAM and all of the usual certifications. And there's a few ESG reports being put out there. I've commented on LinkedIn about UPP and Unite and Empiric and a few others. But what's been really good for me to see more recently is that there are more operators starting to just talk about the B2C impact of sustainability and ultimately how they can talk to their residents. So just look at what they're doing at Mies Student Living, which is backed by Aberdeen, a huge, huge firm. But they've gone for B Corp. B Corp pending at the moment should be through, I would have thought their certification will be through any day now, actually, because it was about a year ago that they put their application in, you know, they're really starting to think outside the box. Their website is, you know, very much designed to use the minimum amount of energy and electricity possible, both in terms of where it's hosted, how it's displayed, the technology that it's using, even down to the colours of their branding. And I think that's something that we do need to push a lot harder, you know, because the reason that I got into sustainability and set up Good Management Crew was because I wanted to have an impact on as many people as possible a positive impact on as many people as possible so chose professional sport and real estate as the two areas to go into because there's so many end users that you can have a positive impact on and really change their life lifestyle to be more sustainable more ethical so it's been good to see the likes of me and several others as well I think homes for students are also be caught pending but you know I think it's about time that we started talking about it more in the work that we've done with the likes of Downing and Project Student and a few other clients, we've worked on signage, we've worked on communication, we've really tried to make sure that they can display and explain the impacts and what that actually means to their residents and how they can change their behaviours to not just save the operator money, that messaging is definitely not going to land well, but to reduce energy usage or water usage or reduce waste to landfill, whatever it might be. So lots of potential there I think we're just scratching the surface, but the more we can see those sort of initiatives go out there, the better. And I think that's something that will start to come about more now.

SPEAKER_01: 8:19

That comes back to sort of my earlier point, Dan, really, is if you want to communicate successfully to the consumer, you've got to give them a why and a belief that they can make a difference. You know, I think we're probably all guilty of just telling people to use less water to help save the planet. Okay, but what does that mean? You know, how is it helping to save the planet? And can you communicate that in a better way? But also, you know, to Dini's point about collaboration, we talked a lot in Con1 about the fact that a sustainability strategy is your business strategy. It's not a separate strategy. And marketeers need to be involved in those conversations. They need to know exactly what's going on, when, by who, how, so that they can communicate it internally and externally, and they need to be empowered as well. We talked, didn't we, Dini, about the power of the consumer and encouraging people to challenge. Well, if the consumers are challenging, the marketeers have got to be ready to challenge back and accept the challenge because otherwise, The consumers are challenging a brick wall and we need to open up this two-way conversation. We need to be allowed to be criticised. We need consumers to push and champion, but also to challenge when it's not right and something better can be done. So as you said, scratching the surface, there's lots more to do. Deanie, what else did you take from the event?

SPEAKER_02: 9:44

Well, I was just following on from your point there, Sarah, is I think there, and I think we spoke about this at the event, about the education piece. And actually, I think there's an education piece about educating people in sustainable practices and how to be sustainable and also a kind of critical thinking piece in the next generation to actually question what they're being told by businesses you know question the facts and the figures in the sense that well is this green or are you taking one stat and shift it around the other way so it's just asking more of the businesses that we're consuming and and actually I think I've said in a previous episode I've recently worked on the new marketing apprenticeship for entry-level marketeers and one of the key things elements in that in that qualification was around sustainable marketing and how to be sustainable marketing and that was a request by the government so all credit to the to the department that actually they kind of we had to put it in already but they wanted to make sure it was beefed up enough to to make sure that that that was a key part of it and I think as this there's more education in this area and hopefully that is filtering through all subjects not just marketing but you are going to have a bunch of consumers that are questioning more asking more and expecting more and we need to make sure that we can to delivered to do that and, as you say, challenge them. and move the dial forward.

SPEAKER_00: 10:59

All credit to the government. That is not a phrase that we're used to hearing very often.

SPEAKER_01: 11:03

So Dan, you were at MIPIM recently. Was sustainability on the agenda there at all? What vibes were you getting from the audience and the organisers there?

SPEAKER_00: 11:13

Yes, I was at MIPIM, but let me just caveat that in that I didn't go into the event. Ultimately, I decided quite last minute that I should be there to really sort of get a bit closer to the money. Now, Mipium is a huge real estate investment event, and there are investors from all over the world there who are looking, they're looking for innovation, they're looking for deals, they are looking for the next location that will be, you know, primed and ready for, you know, for them to deploy capital ultimately. It's full of blue suits and gilets, and it was probably 95% male, I would say, although there's, you know, Apparently, there's an increasing contingent of women there. And there's a lot of agencies. So the likes of Colliers or Knight Frank or Savills will send their teams en masse down to Cannes. And I decided to go out there because I thought I would get a bit closer to the money, find out what they're looking for and where they're looking to buy and build. Because student housing consultancy pretty much sits between investors and operators in a bit of a sweet spot, helping them with asset management. and operational best practice. So for me, I set up six different meetings before I went and then had about six or so while I was out there, just sort of impromptu meetings and didn't get close to the bunker, as they call it, which is the Pelé. It was initiation by fire. I had sort of 24 hours to have my meetings, get in, get out. And I loved it because it was all about the networking for me. From a sustainability standpoint, I do think that there are good sessions within the bunker, within the actual event. I'd missed most of them. By the time I'd got there on the Thursday, I'd missed most of the good events. And also the tickets are pretty pricey. So if you're going for 24 hours, you might as well just be in Cannes. If you're going for the whole week, I think it's definitely worth getting a ticket. And so that's something that I will probably do next time around. But this was more about the networking for me.

SPEAKER_01: 13:19

And would you say that you look back on it that your 24 hours was worth it the financial commitment the time out of the office the richness of the conversations that you were able to have there or did it feel very rushed that's the kind of impression that I get kind of from social media is that everyone's rushing from place to place and it's you're having quick chats rather than meaningful conversations I think it's

SPEAKER_00: 13:42

it's introductions a lot of it is introductions or knowing that people will be in the same place at the same time as you and that you want

SPEAKER_01: 13:49

to

SPEAKER_00: 13:49

put a face to the name and actually meet someone. For me, it was pretty hectic. I was in and out relatively quickly. but had enough time to socialize as well. And I think that's when the real business gets done. But I set up my meetings deliberately in the same kind of place where I knew everyone would be. And there's effectively a square called La Croisette and a sort of long promenade that you can walk along. And people will just come and say, hey, I've seen you on LinkedIn or we've been meaning to catch up for ages. Let's just have a quick chat. And then you can take things forward from there. So for me, it was about showing my face. and making sure that a student housing consultancy and good management group were was represented and And ultimately that I was able to say, yes, I've been to Mipim. I've had a good, good look around in Cannes. I've met enough people that it made it worthwhile. And I don't know if it's my previous background as a sports travel agent, but I managed to get a pretty good deal all in and out for about 370 something pounds. Yes, that was only for one night, but there are people spending thousands to be there. I just don't think you need to do that. You know, I stayed on a boat in Cannes right next to the venue near Cafe Rome or Mar Nolan's which is the Irish bar where everybody seems to end up and that worked perfectly for me so I was able to conduct some good business meet some really good people have some good food and a few drinks nothing major and then get out of there that worked really nicely for me but like I said next year I think I'll extend my stay a bit.

SPEAKER_02: 15:27

Did you get a sense that to be completely frank when you said you're going to Cairns I think my response was love to go to Cairns hate to go to Miffin and I was hoping you were going to come back and say to me no no it's really changing it's really you know it is inclusive and actually kind of all the posts I've seen on LinkedIn is not really telling me that and actually is is informing what my initial thought was is actually truth so is there any sense that there is a way to try and change that image or people want to change that image and I guess the one the one sad thing that I've seen in that is that Lots of women have talked about how they felt it and how there needs to be change, but I haven't seen as many men doing that. And I guess that's where the change is going to come from. And yeah, it's just interesting to see whether you got a sense that any men felt that actually this needs to shift.

SPEAKER_00: 16:14

I think the event are really trying to do their best in terms of the female contingent of panellists or speakers. And Sanna Marin, the ex-Finnish PM, she was the keynote speaker. And that really, I think, set the tone for the way that MIPIM were organising the event itself doesn't change the fact that there were tens of thousands of real estate bros there in their blue suits, gilets and Ray-Bans. And that was, it was pretty shocking, actually. I know that we are stereotyping here, but that's what it was. If you just had a look in Cafe Roma, everyone was in a blue suit, all male, a few women here and there. But It very much felt like a representation, unfortunately, of the agency and investment world. And, you know, we all know that that is a struggle to get to really make sure that there is more representation, more female representation and more gender equality across the board within investment and the sort of commercial agency space. I do think that, you know, some of the commercial agents are doing better there and that will continue to change the more that we talk about it. The more that everyone flags it, the more that people will think, OK, we don't need another blue suit going to Mipim. Why don't we change things up and take a different team, different genders, different whatever? I think that's the key thing that we've got this opportunity to change the industry for the better. But it was very, very investment heavy, very, very male dominated. I just think that's a reflection of where the industry is at.

SPEAKER_01: 17:46

I think I saw some really, really great female led events. There were lots of women in property events and they organised a big conference kind of photo call, which was bright-coloured people not in blue suits. And I think that's wonderful. From what I've seen, those events were really, really well welcomed and really well attended. But it's a shame that they have to be there. It's a shame that there have to be female-only events just to make women feel that they found their people, that they found their tribe, to try and take away some of that intimidation away, because those events are intimidating, they're big. And I think to your point, Dan, if the industry isn't reflective of an equal and diverse society, then... It's hard for those businesses to push women into that situation because they're just not there. There's the senior leadership. It just seems like there's still so much more to do. It's great that the organisers were trying to develop it, though. But I think for Dini and I, there are other events that we feel we would benefit from more. Because, and I wonder if you to agree with this, is there a tendency with events to gravitate towards the people you already know? Because that's your safe space. And I feel like if we were to go to Mipin, we would probably gravitate towards our safe space, the people that we already know, and it would be lovely to see them and catch up with them. But we don't have to go to Mipin to do that.

SPEAKER_00: 19:09

Yeah, I totally, I appreciate that. I made a conscious decision to meet new people. So I made sure that each of the, don't get me wrong, there were a couple of meetings where I already knew them but equally there was more to talk about and I made sure to turn it to business reasonably quickly and then do the social thing as well and make sure I'm finding out a bit more about them doing the usual networking. But yeah, there can be a bit of a tendency to do that. And that can lead us to be in a bit of an echo chamber. And I, yeah, roughly half of my meetings were actually with women. And the three people that I didn't manage to catch up with were all women as well. That wasn't a conscious decision. I'm literally realizing that as I'm talking. But I was sat talking to, I was sat talking to a bartender actually, waiting for someone to arrive and they were just trying to understand exactly what Miffin was. They were relatively new to the area. And in my pigeon French, I was trying to translate in my head that it's very male dominated. And obviously, I suppose that the term for that is sausage fest. So it ended up, you know, me explaining a fete de saucisson to this French bartender. And it just, that's exactly what it was still like. It was, the events seem to be focused on that. And I think consequently, you're not going to get much change as well. Yeah, there was a whiskey and real estate event and things like that. That's not saying that women can't be involved in whiskey tasting. I know plenty that would enjoy that, but it definitely needs to become a bit more accessible. But back to your point on the speaking to people that you already know, I think there's always a tendency to do that. But if you're really out there for business development, then you have to put yourself out there and kind of get out of your comfort zone. speak to people that you don't already know. But it's like in my year abroad in France, I lived in Bordeaux. taught English in a French school, had English friends and, you know, played a bit of football with a French football team. But typically I was speaking to people that I knew every weekend rather than really challenging myself. That was fine because I didn't need to earn money out of the back of that. I was grossly overpaid and underworked on that year, which was wonderful. The same can't be said for now being a consultant. I actually have to do that business development work. So whilst it's nice being in Cannes speaking to people that I already know, like Paddy Allens and Kevin Redmond And it was really important to me to speak to new people and drum up more business and managed to do that. Closed one contract and I've got sort of three different contracts that I'll probably follow up on or that I am following up on and hopefully should sign fairly soon. So definitely productive from my point of view. It's about what you do with it once you get back. That's the most important thing. I've shown my face. I've turned up. Next year, I'd definitely get a ticket. But this year, it just felt like I needed to do a bit of a smash and grab.

SPEAKER_02: 22:01

Well, let's watch this space and see whether we do end up there. Sarah, I'm not feeling it at the moment, but maybe I'll change my mind.

SPEAKER_00: 22:08

You would add some colour, certainly add some colour to it. Yeah, so it's worth considering.

SPEAKER_02: 22:14

That's great. And I think that just to bring it back a bit into kind of the shared living and PBSA is there was news in Ireland a few weeks ago around the lease lengths and actually making it compulsory for a 40 week lease for student accommodation in the planning constraint. And I thought it might be good to have a quick chat about our viewpoints on that and what we think the impact I think from my point of view, alarm bells

SPEAKER_01: 22:38

rang when I heard that because surely it's just going to push the price up. Well, they're still going to have to make the same amount of money. And yeah, and it's an option. It doesn't mean that all students will take up the shorter contract, then they will still have the option to take the longer one. But there has to be an option. But I fear that those shorter contracts will just be more expensive than the longer contracts.

SPEAKER_00: 23:00

It's a really tricky one, this. Now, this was flagged to me before it became a bit of a thing in that there were a couple of operators that were saying, look, we think this is going to blow up in the press. We're just a bit of a heads up. They have been caught between doing what's right for the investor and doing what's right for the student. Most students want complete flexibility so that they can move out as and when they finish their courses, if that's what they want to do. But some of them may want to stay for the 51 weeks and stay over the summer. That's fine. The investors in Ireland want simplicity and think that they can maximize their returns by having those 51-week term sessions and tenancy lengths. And again, I totally get that as well. I think... It's just a really difficult place to be in because the operators obviously want to please the students and their investors at the same time. And what's given here is the students and their satisfaction because it came out in the Irish Times. They were all completely up in arms. And to name them, it's... Aparto and Hugo have gone for 51-week contracts across the board. I've seen some others as well, but they also... They haven't changed that, even though there's been uproar and the government has come out and said, if you won't do this voluntarily, we will come and mandate that you have to put 40, 41, 43 week term sessions and tenancy length in. And they still haven't changed anything. away from 51-week term sessions. I've checked that this morning, so I know that that's all that's available. Maybe they did sell a few. Maybe they've shut them down now. I just don't know. But the government in Ireland are due to come back fairly soon with a new policy that may well ban pure 51 weeks. They may have to have the option of a 40-week-odd tenancy or a 51-week tenancy. But will they hike the rates on the 43-week tenancy so it's sort of equivalent? I don't think they need to. Dublin in particular, Dublin pork limerick there's several other places that would that would be pretty good in terms of summer revenue. The likes of Lavender will be rubbing their hands if they can get, you know, if it's mandated that there's 40 week tenancy lengths rather than the 51 weeks, because obviously in 51 weeks, Lavender or the short term operators can't get in there or the language schools, they can't get in there and get the PBSA beds over the summer. So I do think there's something, you know, I think there's a lot to play out here, but it does seem like the government's going to enforce it and mandate it at some point soon.

SPEAKER_02: 25:38

My question was, is what are those properties that have to do or are doing 51 week lease student only? So therefore, is there the same planning constraints that you can only put a student in that building? Because that's the thing that makes it more difficult to do that summer business. So it kind of feels if you're going to go down that route from a legislation point of view, you need to make sure that there's flexibility around that summer period that actually opens up the opportunity, because that's the way that you can protect the rent for students that actually then you can open up to the wider market. I just don't know if you're aware of what their thoughts are on that.

SPEAKER_00: 26:12

Well, it's all it's all PBSA that are being sort of being told off, as it were. Yeah, what you're saying would make complete sense. I don't think the government in Ireland would take that approach to adjust planning to allow for flexibility over the summer, but I may be wrong. And that's definitely will be playing into the decision not to have any 40 week term sessions and to only have 51 week tenancy lengths, because If you're an investor, you want the security of knowing exactly how many people you have in beds for a certain period of time. You want to maximise that occupancy. Ideally, if you can drive up the revenue, then great. But I think gone are the days where you can rely on the fact that if you have a 43-week term session, you can drive up the prices yield up over the summer. I think there's more complications there in Ireland. I don't think that they're going to be able to increase the rents either. It seems like... there would be the rental caps in place in those key locations where these PBSAs are located that would prohibit that, but I don't know exactly how that would work. I think the government have to get round the table with the likes of Heinz or with GSA or with anyone else who's the money behind the operators to say, right, this is what we're planning. Can you work with us on it? Because I've got no doubt that everybody at Arto, Ugo, Homes for Students, wherever else, wants to make sure that the students are happy. They also want to deliver for their investors. So there is a bit of a fine line to be trod here, but there's such a shortage of accommodation out there that you can get away with and I use that term carefully you can get away with just doing 51 weeks because it's simple it brings in you know maximum revenue I think there's an opportunity to do things slightly differently. I wouldn't want to see the government have to mandate it, but I'm pretty sure they will because the markets are currently self-governed and dictating that that's the way that they want to run.

SPEAKER_01: 28:11

I think the other debate about it, talking about the summer business as well, is that threat to tourism as well. And obviously in some cities, I don't know if that's really headed in Dublin specifically, but that's kind of where the planning permission has been so restrictive really is to not have loads more beds come into a city that maybe aren't needed in the summer that would then threat the kind of traditional tourism but I just can't see that as you said being an issue in Dublin really it feels like there's enough beds for everybody there's enough business opportunities for everybody and this has got to have been driven by students potentially student unions. I was involved at the very beginning, you know, more than 10 years ago, working for GSA, bringing kind of, actually before that, the student housing company bringing the first purpose-built student accommodation to Dublin. And it's amazing how the times have changed over the last decade or so. You know, it was so welcomed. It was so needed that nobody could believe that somebody was building purpose-built student accommodation in Ireland. And it turned very, very quickly when the prices got very, very high, very, very quickly because they could. And I think the developers in Ireland have struggled with that ever since, really. But that shift from the first couple of years of being welcomed with open arms, loads of positive PR. We had government ministers cutting red ribbons, opening buildings. It was incredible. It was a wonderful, wonderful market to be involved in. And then everyone got a little bit too greedy with the rent and it just turned. And I think ever since then, there's been a real, real challenge between all of those different sort of fighting fractions, really. So, well, let's keep an eye on that one and see if any other cities kind of adopt that view. Obviously, we've got rent caps in other cities, so there's definitely a lot more focus, I think, on the sector and that's probably set to grow.

SPEAKER_02: 30:07

Yeah, no,

SPEAKER_01: 30:08

let's watch this

SPEAKER_02: 30:08

space. So I think that's probably it for this episode. So thanks guys for a great chat as always thank you to all those that are listening we do appreciate your ongoing support and we're pleased that from the feedback we're getting that people are enjoying it so a big thank you as ever if there's anything that you want us to cover on any of the aspects of shared living then please do get in touch linkedin us message us whatever you want to contact us please do thanks again and we will see you soon episode nine and have a lovely easter