Market Research, Effective Management, Emerging Trends and Tech Innovation

In Episode 10, we discuss the latest insights on property marketing and student housing.

Here's a snapshot of our conversation in this episode:

- On-Site Market Research: Discover how hands-on market research is uncovering new opportunities in shared living spaces.
- Effective Management: Learn how bridging the gap between investors and operators can optimise property performance.
- Emerging Trends: Discussing the expectations of Gen Alpha and the impact of technology on future accommodations.
- Tech Innovation: The need for better system integration to meet the fast-changing demands of modern residents.
- Blended Communities: Exploring the benefits of multi-functional living spaces for diverse groups.

Listen now for a fresh perspective on understanding the challenges and opportunities in shared living.

Housed: The Shared Living Podcast aims to bring the latest news, views and insights to the shared living sector.

Each week, Sarah Canning, Deenie Lee of The Property Marketing Strategists and Daniel Smith of Student Housing Consultancy will be delving into a wide variety of subjects and asking the questions that aren't often asked. This podcast is for anyone who works in Student Accommodation, BTR, Co-living, Operational Real Estate or Shared Living.

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are the personal views of the individual hosts.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome to what is the 10th episode of House and we're now in double digits.

UNKNOWN: 0:05

Many thanks to everyone for listening over those 10 episodes. We've had some great feedback and really pleased that everyone's enjoying it.

SPEAKER_01: 0:13

For those that haven't listened, we'll introduce ourselves. So I'm Deanie Lee from the Property Marketing Strategists.

SPEAKER_02: 0:19

I'm Dan Smith from Student Housing Consultancy.

SPEAKER_01: 0:22

And I'm Sarah Canning from the Property Marketing Strategists. Great, so to kick off as per normal, what's everyone been up to? What we've been working on? What what's on our minds this week well we've been out of the office a lot we've been doing a lot of market research and marketing deep dives with clients we always prefer to do these in situ and we always think it's better that the marketing teams get out of the office in their kind of natural environment i don't know that marketing teams natural environment is particularly corporate offices so we try and get them out where they feel more comfortable and we've been really going to our different clients different operators within the shared living space, identifying their challenge properties and doing a deep dive on site and out and about in the city, identifying some of their sales challenges and finding marketing opportunities. It's literally my favourite thing to do. I love it. And I think quite often clients just need someone from outside looking in. I think quite often, you know, the marketing teams, the operators, the sales teams, they're just in it. And quite often you just need someone from outside of that organisation to identify identify some blind spots really and that's what we do is we troubleshoot we question things we challenge things we pull off all the data we look at exactly what's going on what's gone on previously we've also you know I guess the benefit is that because we're part of the sector and we're nosy we kind of know what else is going on in that market as well which which sometimes the the teams internally don't know that so yeah so we've been kind of counting up the steps haven't we walking around some very very rainy horrible cold windy cities I have to say why we're not doing this in July and August is well it's pretty obvious but yeah I prefer a bit more sunshine. No agreed and yeah it's it is just really the opportunity to take a fresh look with someone who's outside and I think it is a realisation that you can learn so much just by being in a city being in a property and walking around it with those fresh pair of eyes so no it's been a really good useful couple of weeks. Dan what have you been up to?

SPEAKER_02: 2:24

It's been Easter holiday so I've done whatever the hell I can to keep a five-year-old and an eight-year-old and entertained um so plenty of football in the garden as and when i can and a couple of trips to cornwall built a fantastic cardboard skate park for their little finger skateboards i don't know whatever what the kids are into these days we try and keep them away from screens in particular but that had a very nice reasonably relaxed easter i am very much back at it though most of the work that i'm doing at the operators on behalf of investors. So I kind of sit between the third party operator or a joint venture operator and the investor. And I want to say manage the shouting up and down. The relationship is normally very positive. And my role is really sort of doing a bit of a gap analysis, as you just talked about, and looking at where things could be streamlined or if there are certain things that I think the operator may not be looking at or if the operator mainly a bit more of a focus on revenue management, a slightly different structure. That's where I can come in and have a look at that and see if there are ways that the investor can work better with the operator and vice versa as well. So I've taken on a couple more clients that want me to do that over the course of the next six to 12 months, which is always good to really start to get under the hood of that specific operator and that investor in particular. So just finding my feet with those new clients and keeping my existing existing clients as happy as I possibly can. So yeah, it's been good. It's been busy, but pleased to be back at this and back on the podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 4:07

I've just thought of something else. You just mentioned screens with your kids, Dan. I was on a guest panelist on a webinar last week, which was Gen Alpha could be your customers in five years. Will you be ready? That was hosted by the Urban Living webinar series. So yeah, your kids are Gen Alpha as is one third of my kids. And it was really, really interesting. The recording will be available And they actually had some Gen Alphas that were interviewed. Super, super smart kids talking about all things hospitality, accommodation, marketing screens. I was on with Stuart Henderson, who's the Director of Operations at MIS. And there was Lucy Green, who is the founder of Light Years Consulting. So we were really just looking at what the difference between Gen Alpha and Gen Z is and what impact that will have to the shared living sectors and hospitality in the future. I think where we got to was we're not entirely sure that the product will necessarily change very much but we felt the technology and the service offering will and you know these gen alpha young people will just not have the patience to be filling in forms and doing lengthy application processes so I guess what's coming out the ground now the first gen alphas are going to be coming through in five years so anybody that's building developing investing in future shared living and hospitality spaces needs to really be thinking ahead now and getting ahead of the game. The young people that were interviewed were talking about their experiences in hotels and Airbnbs. They're super, super aware and they're seeing it all on TikTok. So they know, I guess, for the first generation, what other people are experiencing before they've experienced it themselves. There's very little research into Gen Alpha because they're so young. If you asked my son, who's 12, what he wants from student accommodation, he'll tell you he wants a football pitch on the roof and you know a playstation kind of frenzy room for him and all his mates you know it'd be complete nonsense so yeah that's why you can't really ask what they want but i think we know enough about their technological behavior to understand kind of where they're going and it's not going to go backwards so we really really need to up our game particularly with booking systems and social media

SPEAKER_02: 6:21

without doubt and i think this goes back to the podcast last week where we were talking about flexible spaces and the co-working impact i think we we need to be building flexible spaces because the PBSA that's popping up out the ground now will be around for 50 to 100 years. So it's going to need to cope with all kinds of different generations and very changing, really changeable specifics in terms of what these students actually want. I think, you know, they're going to want one click booking. It's got to be super simple in terms of the process for them to book. Will they want specific sales help or will they just be happy to take it as gospel as to what they see and read on line so that there's going to be things that operators will need to change there in terms of their structure and the way that they sell and how they close a property and and then i think they're going to need it personalized as well this is one of the key things that that we're already seeing but that element of personalization really will need to come through and i think if you can nail those with your booking system in particular and then pull that through into the operational management and the room management that's the holy grail now we could lead in to systems talk here, but there's no one absolutely nailing that as yet. Do feel free to write in if you feel that that's the wrong opinion, but realistically, there's no one nailing it yet.

SPEAKER_01: 7:41

I was going to say the same thing, Dan. I think that on flexibility, I think we can get there, but technology, we're still such a long way away, and we've been saying it for years, and it doesn't feel that it's moved on, really. Yeah, I think a lot is said about AI, and my understanding is very, very basic, but if you think about... are Gen Alphas, they're using apps all the time for everything and they auto-fill everything. If you get them to fill out a new form on a website, it really throws them. I actually doubt whether my kids know their postcode because they're so used to it being auto-populated into whatever form they're doing. And, you know, that's the level that we need to get to is that systems need to speak to each other. You know, once a student has signed up, say, to student accommodation or a resident has signed in to a new co-living space. You know, when they're signing up to their internet provider, when they're registering with their laundry provider, it needs to be integrated. They will not have the patience to be filling in form after form and page after page. And that's kind of what I understand about AI, that it needs to be connected to the systems that they're already using.

SPEAKER_02: 8:50

We could definitely do an episode on AI in PBSA, but the PMS out there at the in the world I think you know that's not necessarily a bad thing sometimes because you want to make sure that you've got a credible system that will do the job that you need it to do in its simplest form which is book a student into a room and then help them manage that room AI coming on board and the importance of apps etc my worry is that a lot of these systems teams and these systems companies will be quite slow to react to that and you know as they have been previously now there are some brilliant systems out there but we are still struggling internally of having a one-size-fits-all approach. And that ultimately, I think, is what the students of the next five to 20 years are going to want. Give it to me in one app and keep it nice and simple. And I don't think we're there yet. So there's definitely food for thought and a lot of work that we need to do to make sure that the technology is streamlined in first and foremost. It's easy and simple to use.

SPEAKER_01: 9:53

Is this partly, and I think we discussed this briefly when we were talking about Unipol last week, is this partly the relationship between operations and investors. And actually, there needs to be an investment in tech. And the problem that we have is a lot of operators aren't making that investment, but investors don't see it as their investment because it's the operator's toolkit, I guess. And is this stifling our ability to move this forward? I know when we speak to systems people, we're always talking exactly what you just said, Dan, is that we need it to do more. But there is a requirement from customers to want to invest in that and want to build that more to make it happen? And is this partly one of the discussions that operators and investors need to be having about this need for upgrading our technology now?

SPEAKER_02: 10:37

Well, without a doubt, I'm doing a few systems reviews at the moment for operators and investors that are just wanting to understand what's out there in terms of new PMS that have popped up out of the woodwork or the incumbents and the legacy systems, are they actually able to deliver? And it's becoming very apparent to me in that work that there's no silver bullet out there. And I think that that's where we almost need to lose that idea of what that should look like and think about everything as a systems architecture. So plugging in a certain CRM or a certain finance system compared to a residence app or a PMS and what's your backbone? There are so many questions that I think operators need answering in particular. There are quite a few incredibly good sales teams selling some of these PMS and then maybe they get let down on the actual customer service side or the integration side or the mobilization of those systems. So my advice is to not chuck the baby out with the bathwater. It's not going to be a quick process to switch your systems. And I know that operators and investors do panic about when should we do that? What should we look at? And how should we make sure that there is a bit of a gentle integration period or a transition period? That is the most important thing that I could say. Take your time over it. do the research and really have a look at what else is out there. But it has to be future proof for the next 20, ideally 30 years. You don't want to switch systems every couple of years, but maybe it will get to the point where that's what can happen. People can switch systems in and out and it becomes a lot simpler. And maybe AI is playing a bit of a part in that. Who knows? But it's a bit of a murky world at the moment. Very, very complicated. And I'm very much in the weeds on it. So painful as that may be at times, it's certainly something that I enjoy doing because I can see that there is definitely a way to get the best out of the systems that are out there at the moment it's just a case of being brave enough to actually put some money behind it

SPEAKER_01: 12:40

yeah I think one of the things that we always say about websites is you don't build a website and then think that your investment is done you need to make sure that there's money for that development year on year and it's the same with systems you don't put a new system in and then don't put any money behind it it needs constant development to make sure it's fit for the new purpose I think one of the things that that is a challenge with any innovation in a buoyant market is why spend money on innovating when what you've got is kind of doing the job. A, it misses the point on future proofing and B, it negates that customer service side of things that, you know, why would you do an okay job when you could be doing an exceptional job and amazing and astounding your customers and your potential customers and I'm not seeing anything that that's really leaping ahead like that at the moment. And that's just because nobody's really needed to. Nobody's really needed to challenge and nobody's needed to stamp their feet hard enough because people are booking anyway. We've worked with clients before who just say, well, we're full, so it must be working. And what they don't necessarily know is how many people are dropping out in the process because it's too hard, too annoying, too cumbersome, too difficult to understand. But if they're full anyway, do they really care? And I think I was thinking about this over the weekend because EasyJet really annoy me. And part of the reason is, is because they make it so confusing about whether you've bought checked in luggage or you've haven't and i'm talking about personal experience here because i ended up having to pay twice for a flicking tiny half empty suitcase last week but the point is is from their point of view they're maximizing their revenue because at every opportunity they're trying to get more money from you for something that you probably don't need so from their commercial point of view they're probably rubbing their hands together because stupid fools like me pay for their baggage twice but from a customer experience it's terrible and i've ranted and every that I know knows how disgruntled I am with EasyJet by now. So I booked anyway because that was the airport that I needed to fly from. It went to the destination I needed to get to at the times that I needed to get to them. So I didn't really have a choice to go anywhere else. But was I happy about it? Absolutely not. And that's where we probably are with certain parts of the shared living sector at the moment. People are doing it because it's a great product at a great price in the right location. But if their experiences of booking it is so terrible and they're going to tell everyone how terrible it is but they're booking anyway I just don't feel that that's good enough that we should be you know we should be stamping our feet and we shouldn't be accepting it but like I said it's the cost of investment and our operators expecting their investors to put the bill is it going to is it cross charge an investment like that to individual property budgets because it'll never stack up you can't do it that way it has to be kind of like a wholesale investment into the few Yeah, and it only takes one person to do it and that person is going to win and, yeah, be above everyone else and then everyone has to follow suit. So who's going to jump first? Anyway, I'm sure we could talk about systems all the time because I know it's a bugbear of ours, but we will park it for this week. So next top topic we wanted to just have a quick discussion on was around multi-tenanted communities. How do we work? What do we think about them? What are we seeing? We were super excited, weren't we, Deanie, that we got to see the new social hub in Glasgow last week. So And that really got us thinking because their model is they've got some student accommodation. They can do it for different tendencies. They've got some longer term, almost like a part hotel rooms. And then they've got hotel stays. They've also got co-working. They've also got event space. So they've got all of this going on at the same time. And if their rooms don't still fit, for students and they can pivot to make them hotel stays and vice versa because the product is basically the same it's just the service that's slightly different whether you're a longer term guest or a shorter term guest and what that building has done differently from a planning point of view versus other buildings that are so restricted that they can only take full-time students and then we started thinking about the product and the social hub I mean we could talk probably for a We love the social hub. But one thing that we thought was quite interesting is in some of their large flats, 10 to 12 bed flats, their kitchens felt really quite small compared to what we see normally. Well, that can't meet regulations because you can't see that every student would have their set amount of worktop space. There wasn't enough seating for everybody to sit at the same time. So how are they going about it? And you know, it's probably because they're not ANUC accredited. And do they need to be? And do they care? Because they don't need to fill all of their rooms with students, they can pivot to hotels. So it was really like, I don't know, it's a head scratching moment, really, is that that is a different way of doing things. And it might mean that you have to move away from the red tape, the regulation that the sector is used to. And it doesn't mean it's a worse product. It just means it doesn't have a particular stamp on it. And because of that, it can be more flexible and i guess you know when we talk about multi-tenanted communities we're talking about the future we're talking about gen alpha can the the model of these massive high-rise single tenure kind of buildings carry on really and i think that was the most striking thing for us areas that we've been told so many times that it can't be done in the uk the regulations don't work and that's why going to see the social hub in glasgow and seeing that it looks like every other social hub around the world that we've been into it can be done And obviously, you know, the proof will be in the pudding, but I've no doubt that it will be a massive success. And students, co-workers, hotel guests, event people will all love the space and use the space. And I know that I can't wait to go back to Glasgow to go and use the space myself. So, yeah, it's just that that question of why do we put so many restrictions on ourselves when it's clearly possible and it can be delivered?

SPEAKER_02: 18:59

Definitely possible. So I remember seeing the student hotel as it was. looking for investment actually, probably five years ago or so when I was at Neato. It came across the desk as a bit of an investment pitch and they were looking to raise money. And I couldn't get any investors to bite because of the fact that they didn't really understand the concept of blended living. They were like, well, it's either PBSA or it's a hotel, so why would you try and blend the two? And I think, obviously, that was going out to investors that weren't particularly forward-thinking. because Social Hub is a massive success and fair play to Charlie McGregor and Frank and the team because it's done things totally differently at a time when everybody has just been doing what's working and not necessarily really trying a huge amount different apart from, you know, a few different social spaces and maybe some flexibility over the summer and with term sessions, but not really seen a huge amount of blended living as it were. And the social hub has really helped to pioneer that. And I think it's, it's great to have travelers living, living alongside, you know, travelers and tourists living alongside students. I think the majority of that cohort will still be of student age, but it's a really inspiring space to be in. I haven't been to Glasgow yet. I've been to several of the others across Europe, but it's certainly a concept that I'd like to see more of in the UK because I think that both of those communities can borrow so much from each other and learn so much from each other. And I think that that's ultimately going to benefit in terms of occupancy from what I can see. So yeah, long may that continue that they are growing that brand. And I think that PBSA in particular, and you're traditional pbsa operators i think have quite a lot to learn in blending those different sectors

SPEAKER_01: 20:48

i think that ultimately you know it's a much more mature pbsa market than some of the other social hub outlets that are in so it'll be really interesting to see how it fares but from our visit i think pbsa are going to have to take a good look because it it just it feels different it still feels like home it still feels like a great vibrant place to live and i just think it it could really shake the market up here, which won't necessarily be a bad thing, but I do urge people to kind of have a look and see what's doing and see what is possible.

SPEAKER_02: 21:22

You know, going in for those, going into your planning applications and putting in for different schemes, I think that's one of the things you would need to be forward thinking on, but there's no reason why you can't do that retrospectively in certain areas. It's just a case of having a real thought out, proof of concept, social hub is pretty much that and is a great case study for anyone looking to blend their cohorts?

SPEAKER_01: 21:45

I think the space in itself, I love that open plan, flexible space, and it sort of talks back to what we were talking about last week in the shared co-working spaces, that the spaces all feel very open and that you can see who's there, you can see spaces, but they feel zoned, they feel cosy. And I just think that what an inspiring space place that would be to live in when you've got all of those different people that you can talk to that you can grab a coffee with that you might end up going to an event with they're all welcome it's all open and you know if we compare it again to co-working you don't get like we work for marketeers we work for tech companies we work for creative agencies they're all together in one building I think we talked about this in another podcast that is it weird that like we try and set segment people so that they only live with one type of person. That does feel really, really odd when you think about all of the other ways that you live kind of beyond the ages of 21, 23, that everybody's mixed together. But for students, we really kind of segment it. And I guess that comes from universities because university accommodation does, obviously, because they're housing students from one university. But even then, they rarely house students, you know, from one course altogether or something. So and then I think PBSA has kind of kept that model of keeping kind of students all together. And it is to do with planning. And, you know, I also think that, you know, restricting planning to only having full time students living together is going to become more and more restrictive. We've discussed it before on the podcast because it excludes part time students and it excludes PBSA. who are part-time students because they're apprentices. It excludes language students and you think, oh my word, like as a student, as a young person, I'd have loved to have lived in a place that mixes all of those people together. I wouldn't want to just live with people who are from my socioeconomic background, from, you know, studying what I'm studying in the way that I study. It does feel weird. And I think that Social Hub and other blended communities do it much better, bringing all of those people together. It would be great if there were more of them. And then there was some kind of study that could prove, I don't know, the potential of people that come out of a space like that. You know, do They come out of a space like that with great connections that gives them a foot up with employment. The more entrepreneurs come out of living in an environment like that rather than a traditional kind of segmented one. This would be fascinating if there was more a study could be based on.

SPEAKER_02: 24:32

Yeah, I mean, Vita are a really good example of that. I was on a panel at Vita for the class conference last year and touring one of their assets in Barcelona. They have such good alumni and I scheme that they pretty much track the graduate outcomes and the networks and the friendships that all of their ex-Vita residents have today. And that's data going back quite a while now. And so I think there's, you know, there is a real sort of understanding of the power of the network and the power of the communities that are being built. Conversely, though, Vita have also just launched a product which is focused on sort of returners and they've also got a real co-living product as well. So they're kind of creating separate brands, I think, you know, one for students or undergrads, typically obviously going to be focused on internationals because it's Vita, but increasingly doing more domestic too. Then one on the second year, third year types. Then obviously you can move move on to your postgrad. So they have created separate brands for them. I would expect there to be quite a bit of blending between each of those brands. And it may be a bit more property specific, but I've not really seen anyone who is actively encouraging. I mean, you could talk about Hyber and their later living concept. That is pretty extreme with students living alongside ultimately older people who are in a retirement home, effectively. That is quite an extreme version of what we're talking about. But I do think there is scope for much more blended living. And some of the work that I do with BTR and co-living operators is them asking me, OK, talk to me about the PBSA industry. What does students want? And can you give us a bit of an intro to it and help us with a bit of strategic advisory? Well, actually, 60% at least of those co-living or BTR residents are typically students in what I'm finding so far. So there's already quite a few blended communities out there. Yes, we are very hampered by the planning restrictions. And to get your big scheme off the ground, if you want 400 beds, do you worry whether it's co-living or student? Well, student is probably more likely to get off the ground unless you're in a certain area where there's considered something of a student ghetto, in which case you'll probably apply for more general planning permission, in which case you'll end up with a BTR or or a co-living product. I think there's a real difficulty there that the planning regime is so restrictive that it just means that people either think, right, I've only got PBSA or I've got co-living stroke BTR. That's all I can do. I think actually there's a real opportunity to be a bit more pragmatic about it. I mean, I know that the planning regimes and the local authorities aren't typically known for being pragmatic, but if we can start to steer that ship and get some more of these blended communities, I think personally everybody benefits You know, there's a real opportunity for collaboration and for learning and that building a real sense of community that doesn't just last for one year and then moves on as student does. I think there's a real opportunity to create a long term community that people can benefit from for years.

SPEAKER_01: 27:44

And let's let's watch this space and see what happens to our planning post election, post anything, because we obviously know it does need some shake up. And I guess the final thing to talk a little bit about today is mystery shopping. which is kind of very much a standard thing that we're seeing in Built to Rent, in VTR. They kind of are proud about the services they're offering. They want to prove that they're doing good. But what about PBSA? Are people kind of assessing their services enough, their kind of sales leads generation? And should we be doing more? You know, I think to be open and honest and transparent, the property marketing strategist together with hearsay, we do run a mystery shopping service. And the reason that we launched Thank you. taken it up. But I think what we're really seeing is with the same product in BTR, there's awards, there's actual kind of league tables. There's so much going on that we're really not seeing this in PBSA. We're really surprised at some of the operators who aren't doing mystery shopping. And we're surprised that some of the proposals that we've sent out, people are not taking up and yet it costs quite a bit because it's completely bespoke and it's not an off-the-shelf product but what the clients that have taken it up have learned is where their staff need support and help and development and where they might be losing sales and if they're losing sales it means they're not getting ROI on their marketing investment now this isn't just a vanity a vanity service it can be and I think that people that do well can really pat themselves on the back and also reward their staff for performing well. But it's so, so important to find out what's going on at property level versus what's going on at head office and from a beta analytics point of view. But it seems a bit like a dirty secret. I don't know. Are you both hearing? I don't know. Has mystery shopping got such a bad reputation that people either don't want to do it or they certainly don't want to talk about it? Are they performing so badly that they're embarrassed and don't want to talk about it? And is that the difference between PBSA and BTR mystery shopping?

SPEAKER_02: 30:28

I think sales in PBSA is generally pretty crap, if I'm being honest. And it was when I first came into the sector back in 2015 or so. And the first thing I did at Neato was hire a salesperson and then a sales team and then try and build that out, give them all the tools they need, really invested in that. Because I can see the marketing is great. And I think across the board, everyone's focused on brands and customer acquisition. That's great. But then once that customer has put that inquiry through, I think it falls down a lot of the time. And that is either because we've been shooting fish in a barrel as a PBSA industry for a long time with very high occupancy. You don't really have to work too hard to get the bookings in. That's not saying that there aren't great sales teams and great processes and great systems out there. It's just that from my perspective... I've seen a lot of really good marketing and a lot of really poor sales. And it's something that I do with a lot of my clients at the moment, sales reviews and looking at making sure that their teams and the structure are right, the processes, the systems, and ultimately that they are closing. This is one of the things, it's not just enough to say, we've got a gym, a cinema room, it will cost you this much. sign on the dotted line, you've really got to go the extra mile now, especially in some of these locations where it is pretty flooded. So the likes of Coventry and Sheffield and more recently Leeds and Nottingham and various other places too across the UK, it's going to get harder to get to 100% occupancy. And I think the best way that you can actually get there is by a combined sort of sales and marketing effort to make sure that you are closing those And so it's about getting out in front of that customer and making sure that you're marketing to them in the way that they would want to, and then being able to really close the deal. Now, how are you going to close someone if you don't know exactly, you know, how your properties perform and how your team are performing? What are the USPs? Who are you talking to? Where are they from? What do they want? Like all of those key questions. I don't think it's as simple as just having a script for an international student where you know that the family, the parents, are the ones making all of the decisions. I think you've got to go through the full sales review process. And so the starting point for that is typically a mystery shop to know what the benchmark is on a local level or a national level against your own team. And so, yeah, mystery shopping is absolutely vital. I used to do that pretty consistently at Neato. I know you guys have been doing it for various different clients. I think that should form the first part of a of a proper sales review before you really start getting any sales trainers or anyone like that in. You've got to make sure that you know exactly where you stand, what's your benchmark, what do other people do, and then you're able to make a good decision moving forward as to how you can close more students better. I

SPEAKER_01: 33:34

think the thing that often gets talked about at conferences or when you speak to people in the sector is the last bastion of difference is customer service. But if you're not assessing what your customer service is from the moment moment that your customer engages with you then your customer service is going to fall down and I think that's the bit that everyone can talk about customer service but if they're not monitoring it and they don't have the data to see where those gaps are or where they're failing or where they're not where they're losing their customers they're not delivering on their brand promise then you're not assessing it and you're not able to change it or adjust it or amend it well I think the classic example of this is your data analytics will tell you how many inquiries you're getting great well done marketing's done its job what your analytics won't be showing generally unless you're fully integrated and into a CRM system is how they're being responded to when they're being responded to how quickly they're being responded to and you know some I guess some free advice from what we've seen from our mystery shops that we've been doing with clients that's where they're falling down the most is just not being responsive we know the property teams have got 300 tasks to do every single day But getting back to potential customers should be pretty much number one. And that's just not what we're seeing. So you can't learn everything from analytics alone. And that might, you know, that might show a very, very false outcome. rosy image of what's actually going on on site. The inquiries might be coming in, marketing might be generating loads of leads, but if they're not converting, then you need to be looking with a bit more of a magnifying glass at your property and your staff.

SPEAKER_02: 35:13

The focus is still very much on ops, on running the buildings. And yes, of course, you need to sell them, but because it's been easier to sell them than most residential industries, I think that there's been less of a focus on sales. There are some big clients that I work with, You know, you're talking between 10 and 20,000 beds these guys have got, these operators have got. And they don't have a commercial sales manager. They don't have a commercial director. They don't have a revenue manager. And that was a bit of a shock to me, you know, working with various different clients of those kinds of levels where, you you know that that's what they need because the focus has to be on marginal gains, on getting the extra 5, 10% in terms of extra revenue or that extra 2% of occupancy, whatever it might be. And I think there's also a real disconnect between general managers and the property teams and the HQ level teams as well. It might be that the HQ team have a large sales team, great, but they need to be working hand in glove with the general managers. And the general managers, like you said, they've got 300 other tasks to do. They don't necessarily have enough of a focus on sales and it is a different skill set. Operations and sales is a different skill set. I've seen it a couple of times now. There are sales and operations managers or they've rolled sales into the ops teams. They are very different skill sets and that's a bit of a concern when I see that because I do feel that there should be either separate people or certainly separate parts of those roles carved out because sales is totally different to ops and it's very difficult to get a general manager who is so adept at selling that they don't you know they can do it in their sleep but can also then keep the residents happy when they're there and make sure that you know the fire safety certificate is up to date and that you know everything is taken care of from an ops perspective so I've seen it in novel student more recently they've got sales and leasing specialists at each building. And now they've staffed up their buildings pretty heavily. And that's the sort of American way, I think. And they've brought that over. CA Ventures have brought that over through Novel Student. So that leasing side of things is a real focus for a certain specific person within that property. That's something with margins and the right price point that I can see more of happening. But I think the difficulty is that lot of these operators are trying to run these buildings on as efficiently as possible and so they would rather instead of hiring someone specifically to do that leasing in the marketing they will have a general manager or an assistant manager do something and then it becomes about being a generalist with sales experience ops experience marketing experience whatever else it might be but then you don't want to be a jack of all trades master of none so There are some operators where that will be a real difficulty, the mid-range and affordable price points. You will need a real generalist doing your general management. But I do think that sales is a bit of a lost art within PBSA at the moment. There are some good operators out there doing really good things on the sales front, both training and hiring the right people and looking more commercially at it and really trying to drive the revenue. But I think for the most part, the majority of the sector has just sort of lagged behind on sales in favour of focusing on the operations that's been understandable to date but as it gets tougher out there which I think this year will be I think the focus is going to have to turn towards sales so yeah important to get a good sales review and do some mystery shopping that's for sure

SPEAKER_01: 39:00

that's great and we'll watch this space but I'm conscious that we have talked a lot we've gone through lots of stuff and our time is up I'm afraid but thanks guys for a great conversation and thank you as ever to our wonderful audience for downloading and listening we do appreciate you doing so we appreciate your feedback please like subscribe share let us know what you want to talk about what we're not covering we should be covering we're all ears and want to make this as relevant to everyone as possible so for now we do hope you have a lovely week and we will be back next week thank you