Struggling with Relationship Conflicts? Discover Proven Solutions Now

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In this episode, we’re addressing a common and challenging issue: relationship conflicts. Our special guest, Jim Marshall, author of "Septemics," shares his insights and proven solutions to help us navigate and resolve conflicts in our relationships. He has created a unifying principle that allows us to understand the people we interact with, and ourselves, in a different way.

Episode Highlights:

[00:00] Introduction to Jim Marshall:

• Jim Marshall is a seasoned scholar with over 50,000 hours of study in human development. He created Septemics, a system designed to analyze, predict, and manage human behavior through seven-level scales.

[05:00] Understanding Relationship Conflicts:

• We dive into the root causes of relationship conflicts and how Septemics can provide clarity and solutions. Jim explains how identifying our levels on the Scale of Relationships can help us understand and resolve issues more effectively.

[12:00] The Scale of Relationships:

• Jim introduces us to the Scale of Relationships, one of the many scales in Septemics. This scale helps us understand where we and our partners stand, providing a roadmap for moving from conflict to connection.

[20:00] Self-Awareness and Conflict Resolution:

• A significant part of resolving conflicts is understanding ourselves. Jim discusses how increasing self-awareness can lead to better decision-making and improved relationships. He emphasizes the importance of knowing our motivations and behaviors.

[28:00] Practical Solutions and Real-Life Examples:

• Jim shares practical tips and real-life examples of how people have used Septemics to overcome relationship challenges. These stories highlight the effectiveness of understanding and applying the scales to real-world situations.

[35:00] Eddie’s Reflections:

• I share some personal insights and experiences from our conversation. Learning about Septemics has been a game-changer for me, and I hope it will be for you too.

Memorable Quotes:

• Jim Marshall: "By using the Scale of Relationships, you can diagnose and address issues in personal relationships, moving from conflict to connection."
• Eddie Isin: "Understanding the scales in Septemics has given me a new perspective on resolving conflicts and improving my relationships."

Why You Should Tune In:

• Expert Advice: Gain insights from Jim Marshall, an expert in human behavior and relationships.
• Practical Tips: Learn actionable strategies for resolving relationship conflicts.
• Real-Life Examples: Hear stories of how Septemics has helped others improve their relationships.
• Personal Growth: Discover how increasing self-awareness can lead to better decision-making and happier relationships.

Read Septemics: Hierarchies of Human Phenomena 

Subscribe to Transform Your Future Newsletter Where Eddie writes about personal development, reinvent & identity: http://transformyourfuture.com

Transcript

0:00

I was very careful to write this book in a way that once you have the book, you don't need anything else in order to use it. You don't need to hire a facilitator, you don't need to go to a therapist, you don't need to take a class, you don't need to join a church, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's just you and the book. The only thing you might need is a dictionary, but I would say that for every book on earth, I've been involved in education from the age of three to this very day. I would never teach anyone anything without having a dictionary. But everybody has a dictionary now in his pocket. So you say permeation, huh? What's that? Well, I give the definition right before the chapter I give it. There is a glossary, not only in front of every chapter, but even in front of the introduction. There's a glossary. I'm telling you with specificity what these words mean. Papaya. Hello all, and welcome to another episode of Transform Your Future with me, Eddie Isin, where I sit down with entrepreneurs, thought leaders, and high achievers as they identify areas I can improve on and guide me to further my self-improvement practice. For more information and insights, join the newsletter@transformyourfuture.com, where I write about reinvention, personal growth, identity, and my relationship with technology. Today's guest is Jim Marshall. He is a polymathic scholar and autodidact who has devoted over 50,000 hours to the study and practice of multiple dimensions of human development. He received a classical education as an honor student at a Jesuit military prep school, was accepted into engineering school while still a junior in prep and attended college on an academic scholarship. He graduated college with a bachelor's of science cum laude while still an undergraduate, he began the study of alternative arts and sciences, which today would be described as transformational and holistic. Eventually, he became a professional practitioner, and after 28 years of formal education, had a long career as a human development engineer. Jim has integrated the best aspects of the most advanced techniques on the planet and has expanded their limits by his own research and discovery. He has successfully treated and are trained hundreds of clients over a 40 year career, and is the inventor of sems and several conscious expanding systems, including multidimensional processing, conflict matrix processing, and the tripartite path to human development. His areas of expertise include psychology, philosophy, theology, parapsychology, science, engineering, mathematics, law, literature, history, metaphysics, military science, political science, physical culture, and music. Over 40 years experience as a successful personal counselor facilitator, utilizing biofeedback and Socratic dialogue to bring ethics, self-realization, and enlightenment to hundreds of clients of every description. Welcome, Jim. Thank you, Eddie. Good to see you. Yes, sir. So let's just jump right in and talk about your book, Ste, and let's talk a little bit about what the theme is. I know that I'm very interested to find out more about that. Okay. Well, lemme just say one sentence to bridge from who I am into the book. I'm the discoverer of hither two unknown natural phenomena, which greatly aid in the understanding of people from which I constructed a revolutionary, practical philosophic system called Ste and published it in the book, Ste. Hierarchies of Human Phenomena. Septe is a philosophical science based on the fact that many phenomena related to humans occur in a sequence of seven levels. Literally the word septe means all or pertaining to seven. Septe comprises a collection of scales for sequences, each of which breaks down very human phenomena into a hierarchy of seven steps. There are 35 such scales, each of which is unique, and together they span the spectrum of human experience, by which I mean any problem, dilemma, situation, difficulty, et cetera, that any person has, can successfully be analyzed by one or more of these scales, usually more than one. That's very interesting. I just have to get personal and funny for a, I'm born September 7th and I always felt that there was a connection between the month I was born and the day I was born. And why seven's my lucky number? And you just explained it so well to me. So tell me a little bit about how I can better understand these philosophical natures and the seven levels to look at things so that I can better myself in my life and live a more fulfilling life. Okay, lemme tell you in a general way how semex is beneficial. I wrote this book to help people. I've had a lifetime of helping people. Each of these 35 skills provides the user with an infallible way of determining the salut or beneficial of any group, individual or activity. If the group individual or activity moves persons up, these scales is beneficial or positive, if it moves them down, it's detrimental or negative. So I'm giving you a yardstick by which to measure human affairs, which is an entirely new concept. More importantly, just finding out your level or someone else's level on any scale is by itself enlightening and beneficial. Every time you correctly spot either yourself or another on any scale, you have an epiphany. You go, oh, now I understand why my mother and father can't get along, or something like that. And finally, once you know the actual level of any person on any scale, you can improve that person by moving them up one level at a time. All of these advantages represent major steps forward for society. And each of these scales is an axis against which to evaluate human behavior combined the empower one to understand, predict and manage human affairs to a degree hither to unattainable by most. What is the first level, so to speak? Well, you have to understand there are 35 scale, each of which has seven levels, and the scales are unique. Now, the fact that the scales are unique is of benefit because since each scale is unique, they span the spectrum of human experience. If you permit me, I'll tell you the names of the 35 scales. Sure, sure. And then you'll know exactly what subject matter gets covered in those 35 scales. Okay? 24 of the scales are what I call individual scales, meaning they apply primarily to an individual. Okay? These are the individual scales. The scale of basic purposes, the scale of personal influence, the scale of choice, the scale of permeation, the scale of thought, the scale of identity, the scale of evaluation, the scale of motivation, the scale of control, the scale of stopping, the scale of scholarship, the scale of literacy, the scale of human ability, the scale of memory, the scale of spiritual identity, the scale of mental deletion, the scale of aberration, the scale of physical fitness, the scale of justification, the scale of belief, the scale of equanimity, the scale of attack, the scale of conflict, and the scale of reaction. And these are the group scales, the scale of relationships, the scale of life spheres, the scale of government, the scale of civilization, the scale of survival, the scale of management, the scale of exchange, the scale of communication, the scale of sexuality, and the scale of politics. I missed one in there because it's deleted from my list. I don't know why. But anyway, those are the scales. Lemme see if I can remember what that is. No, I can't remember what it's, so anyway. That's okay. But I want to say that as I listened to you and you talk about the different dimensions and the different levels, one of the things that strikes me is I feel like you have found a unifying principle that would so many things that you talked about, I have in my life that I'm working on different levels to move to different places. And I feel like there wasn't something that was missed out about who I am, my identity, the things that I'm interested in, and the things that I'm moving forward. So it's very interesting. I really feel like it's a unifying principle here. Yes. And the 11th group scale that I neglected to mention not on my list is the scale of allegiance. Now, I can tell you from my long experience, any one of these scales by itself can dramatically improve the life of the user. And I'll give you an example right now, the scale of motivation. Motivation is a very important thing to know all for yourself and for others. And that's how the police solve crimes. If you don't have a motive for the crime, you are not a suspect. That's the first thing they look for to eliminate people and cast their net. So this is very important to know. So for example, you could ask, what is my motive toward my mother? What is my motive toward my father? What is my motive toward my next door neighbor? What is my motive toward my boss? What is my motive toward my employee? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You could use this hundreds of ways, and you can use the reverse factor, what is my cousin's motivation toward me? What is my uncle's motivation toward me? What is my girlfriend's motivation toward me? So you see it's both ways. So just using this one scale, you could dramatically clarify all of your relationships in your life. Yeah, I hear that. And so just to stop there for one second. So what about, one thing that I'm interested in that I always talk about is I'm working with individuals. I work primarily with people who want to achieve higher levels in sales, commission only people, entrepreneurs. And one thing that I'm interested in is the different areas that I identify with, different areas that I can tap into that motivate. There are certain things that motivate me, like I like competition, and if I have somebody to compete against steel, sharpen steel, and it helps me become better and better as I compete with this other person. Is this scale of motivation, does that include any kind of internal motivation then? And understanding motivation and what motivates me. Absolutely. What this scale per pounds is that there are seven basic human motivations. All the others are subsets of these. So if I were to go out here on the street and stop some guy and say, what's your wife's motivation toward you? He would look at me like I'm from Mars. He would say something like, how can I know that there are thousands of motivations? No, there are only seven basic motivations. And that is one of the reasons that this works because you are always selecting from a menu of seven. And I can tell you from 28 years of watching this work on people, that what typically happens when a person tries to assess either himself or another on a scale is in a matter of seconds, he finds a bracket, he looks at the scale and let's say 10, 15, 20, 30 seconds, something like that, he'll say, well, I can see right away that one, two, and three don't have anything to do with me. They're way over my head. So it's got to be 4, 5, 6, or seven. See? So he's got it down to four now. So then you just say to him, okay, go ahead and read the text and then you can get it exactly. He's going to want to do that because you're opening a door for him. He reads it, he comes back and says, well, now that I read it, I can see that I'm at level four. That explains bop, bop, bop, bop. Now that works like that for all of the scales. Interesting. Now you have to realize that every person is at some level on every scale. So this is like blood type. Everybody has a blood type. You may not know what the person's blood type is, but you can find that out if you go to a doctor and have the one and they, well, this allows you to find out where you are. Now, of course, you can ignore this data, but it's much smarter to use it. And here's why. If you take your car out on the road, there's all kinds of signage, stop sign, no left, turn, speed limit, double yellow line, et cetera, et cetera. If you do not comply with that signage, you're going to get in big trouble. There's a thousand bad things that can happen. You can kill yourself, you can kill somebody else, you can wreck your car, you can have your insurance canceled, you can have your license taken away, et cetera, right? This book is like the signage on the road. I'm telling you where the edge of the road is. And you have to realize this is an entirely empirical, there is no theory of ste. And if I may, I'd like to tell you how I discovered this, because that really gets you to understand how this works and why it works, please. So the story starts really when I was accepted into engineering school at the age of 16. Now, of course, at the time I thought I was going to be engineering physical things like air foils, motors, electrons, chemicals. But by the time I had my bachelor's degree, it was clear to me that I wanted to engineer the human psyche because is the area of greatest unknown. The areas, area of greatest mystery. And more importantly, is the area in which we as a race are failing miserably. 95% of the problems in industrialized society are because people don't understand, people don't understand themselves, don't understand the wife, don't understand the husband, don't understand the boss, et cetera, et cetera. And this book solves that problem across 35 axes. So what often happens is aga, let's say he's looking at a scale, and he'll get down, for example, say at a level four and say, wait a minute, this is my mother-in-law. She's exactly like this. I don't know this. I probably don't even know the guy. He's reading the book somewhere. See? But it's so precise that he's going to spot her. And at that moment, his relationship with her just got better. He understands her better. So let me finish the story. So to make a long story short, you referenced it a little bit. I had a long career as human development engineer working one-on-one with hundreds of clients of every description. All of my clients improved over cumulatively many thousands of hours. And I came to realize as fairly early on, little by little, that I could predict the outcome of the session. Now, I never told this to anyone because the whole point of Socratic dialogues, you don't tell the person, you let him figure it out himself. But I made notes. And as the decades roll by, I came to be aware that the client would be at a specific level on a specific scale that I had previously observed. And as a result of our interaction, he would go up to the next level. This happened thousands and thousands of times. And each time it did, it verified my hypothesis, which was only in my mind, I hadn't discussed it with anybody, but I was using the scientific method to verify my hypothesis through all of this. So by 1995, I had about 32 scales of varying lengths, which I knew from direct observation were correct. You have to realize, after I would see it in session, I would go outside the session and it would be right in front of my face. I'd go to Walmart, and there's a guy, he's at that level. You see, it's right there. So I had this one difficult client, and I was pondering this client one day, and I realized this client was at a level on one of the scales that I had not previously observed. In other words, this was a sixth level scale that I knew was correct so far as I had it. And when I spotted that seventh level scale, seventh level of the scale was obvious to me where to insert it because of its content. And when I inserted that level into the scale, making it a seven level scale, the whole scale manifested mathematically. So it went from being aligned, which is what a scale is to a plane of data. So I was looking suddenly at something comparable to the periodic table of elements, but for the corresponding area, because if you understand mathematics, the whole point of mathematics is you start with an equation or a formula and you coax data out of it. That's how Einstein found E equals mc square. Everybody in physics and math knows exactly how he found it. It's no mystery. So when I saw this, I said, whoa, I don't know what this is, but whatever it is, it has to be natural law because it has mathematics embedded in it, like the Fibonacci sequence. So then I thought, huh, I wonder how many of these other scales that I have are actually seven level scales that had not been developed all the way because I wasn't developing anything. I was just helping my clients and making notes, knowing what I was looking for. I observed and studied these other skills, and in a short period of time, each of them went to seven levels. And as it did, it manifested mathematically. The math jumped right out at me. And if you get the book and look at these scales, you see it's a plane of data on the corresponding subject that I just read out a few minutes ago, 35 subjects. So for example, all of the key relevant data about relationships, about evaluation, about control, about aberration, about spiritual identity, are right there in that table. Just like with the periodic table of elements, the whole nature of matter is in that one table. And the more you study physics and chemistry, the more real it gets to you and the more it becomes like a skeletal framework that you can always rely on. Now, of course, before Dmitri Mendeleev created the periodic table, there was chemistry, but he revolutionized it by making it easier to understand, easier to teach, and easier to learn. That's exactly what the subject does in the subject of human affairs. So I can give you one sentence that explains how this works and why it's valuable. The data in this book are vital for every person and can help you to achieve your goals faster and easier by explaining what might otherwise seem to be inexplicable or random. You talk to the average guy about women, they'll say, I don't understand women. I get along with them the best I can, but I don't understand them. Well, if this guy studies this book, he can analyze a specific woman against all 35 scales, and by the time he does, he's going to understand her better than she understands herself. So this is really useful. I crafted this to wrap around the reader. The scales were designed to wrap around the reader. So it's very user-friendly. So let me finish what I was saying before about explaining what might otherwise seem to be inexplicable or random. Give you an analogy. If someone were to invite you to a rendezvous, you would certainly expect them to tell you the exact time, date, location, and perhaps how to get there. Needless to say, it's difficult to get somewhere if you don't know where you are, don't know where you're going and don't know how to get there. Now, this sounds idiotic, but most people do this regularly. In fact, many people do this continuously. They just go in circles. They don't know where they are, they don't know where they're going, and they certainly don't know how to get there because they don't even know where they are. So this solves that problem because it takes these 35 subjects and it gets you to look at it and say, oh, I see where I am on the scale of equanimity. You see? And then you can move yourself up to the next level, and then you have more equanimity, so you have improved yourself. So this is all about insight. Now, it requires some insight. To use this, you have to be able to look at yourself honestly and say, who am I? What do I really think? What do I do? How do I behave? You have to have some self-knowledge canor about yourself or about the other person. And then you have to spot the level. When you spot the level, you'll have an epiphany, and then you can move up to the next level. Now, moving up to the next level is fairly easy if you know the correct level, and I'll tell you why. There is a principle in engineering that says 90% of finding the correct answer is asking the right question. That is why Einstein found the theory of relativity when nobody else did. He asked the right question. That is why Newton found the three laws of motion. When he did, he asked the right question. Okay? So when you have the correct level, the next level up is in a sense, the right question. So you see, okay, I see where I am, and then you look at say, oh, yeah, that's the next level. Yeah. So it's not hard to get to the next level if you know the correct level. Now, finding your own level is just about self-inspection. Now, there are people who can't do that. There are people who are unable to inspect themselves, but somebody like you, I can tell just from meeting you today, you're not going to have that problem with another person. Again, sometimes people cannot be objective. A person says, oh, she's my mother and I love her. She can't possibly be at this level. So you have to be able to look at it objectively and see what's there. Now, the good news is people tell you their levels. It's no secret, and I'll give you a perfect example. When Obama ran for president, most of us had no idea who he was. Now, the people from Illinois knew who he was because they had sent him to the Senate, but he had only been in the Senate for two years. So those of us in the other four of the United States were saying, who's this guy with a funny name? He's running for president. So when I saw that he was running for president, I said, wait a minute, I'm going to have to find out about this guy. So I conducted a study of him. I listened to his speeches, I watched him carefully, and I was able to divine his basic purpose. Now, nothing is more important to know about a person than his basic purpose, because that's what he's trying to do all the time. And further, I can tell you that most people spent an entire lifetime with one basic purpose. It's quite rare for a person to change level on this scale. So once you know somebody's basic purpose, most of the time you've got him nailed. Unless something big happens, if he has some spectacular transformational experience, Or if you have some horrible traumatic experience, he could go down a level. For example, if you have somebody who's in a Nazi death camp and he lives through it, he's probably going to come out at a lower level. He's going to be changed. People say, yeah, Joe's not the same as he was before. See, he's now at level, or the most famous example. This is St. Paul, who was known as Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus that tells the story about it. There was a voice that said, Saul, why do he persecute me? And he was knocked off a source, and he went from being Saul, the persecuted of Christians to St. Paul, the person who proselytized it to the Gentiles. So he went from being a leader, which is level two to a saint level one. That's a famous example, but most people don't change on that. But if you find your basic purpose, it's a life-changing experience, because you know what you are about. You say, ah, this is for me. Yes, now I understand everything that I've been trying to do and hoping to do. And you throw out the other six levels. They're not for you, the other people. So you are really clear about your purpose in life, and that's very helpful and stabilizing because it keeps you from going down a lot of dead ends. And S, So this is something that anybody can use if he can read English reasonably well and he wants to improve himself or others. Now you might say, well, everybody wants to improve himself or others, and I beg to differ. There are many people who have no interest in proving themselves or others. These would include psychopaths, sociopaths, war criminals, corrupt politicians, professional criminals, serial murderers, insane people, et cetera, mentally retarded people, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? There's lots of categories of people. I mean, if you find some thug in organized crime and give them this book, he's going to say, get the hell out of here. What do I put this mumbo jumbo? Even if he did read it, he wouldn't understand it. And even if he did understand it, he wouldn't use it because it's contrary to his way of life. He doesn't want to make you better. He wants to clean out your bank account and steal your wife. So I've actually calculated about half the human race wants to improve oneself or others, and so this book is for them. So let me give you an example of how to use this in a very practical way. Let's say you have a buddy and he's having romance problems. Your friend thread, every time you see me says, oh, I don't know what I'm going to do about Gertrude. She got drunk, she passed out, she crashed the car, she didn't come home one night, she wants a divorce, blah, blah, blah, right? This guy's been complaining to you about this for a year, right? Different stories, at least a year, right? You want to help him, right? Because your friend say, Fred, come here. Lemme show you something. And you open the book to the scale of relationships, and you put it in front of him. So he looks at it and he's going to say something like, you mean there's a scale of relationships? And you say, yes, this relationship that you have been complaining to me about for a year, where is it on this scale? He's going to want to know that because he's having trouble. So he looks at it in a matter of seconds. He'll find a bracket, he'll say something like, well, it's definitely not seven. We're not that bad. It's definitely not one or two. I don't even understand those. It's got to be like 3, 4, 5, 6. See, you got it down to four in seconds. And he said, okay, why don't you read the text and then you can nail this? Exactly. So he reads the text, and you got to realize, he knows this relationship. He's been living in it for a year or two, and the material is very clear. It's expressed in a way, it's not difficult to grasp. So he reads it and remember, it's a natural law. So it's like you're looking at the Pythagorean theorem. ah, yeah, I get this. So he looks at it and he comes back and you say, now tell me. Well, I can see now this relationship is at level five. No wonder we're having a lot of trouble that's near the bottom. He could go a couple of ways with this. He might say, you know what? I'm going to get this book and I'm going to use it with Gertrude and get it up to level four. Or he might say, I'm not wasting my time on this anymore. This is a waste of my time To hell with Gertrude. See, that's up to him. We don't decide that. But let me tell you, either way, he will be happy because he's having a realization. He's saying, oh, now see, while he was trying to figure this out, it's going to his head. Oh yeah, that's why she did that. That's why. See, it's clarifying itself. So now he has a much better understanding of this relationship, and whether he wants to go forward with it or not is up to him. There is a path forward because there's a whole section in the introduction about how to use this to improve yourself, and another whole section on how to use to improve another. So I give you specific instructions on how to use this to get the person up to the next level, but he may not want to do. What's an example of level five and level six in the relationship scales? Well, I would have to look at the scale to tell you what they are. Okay? So level six is enmity, which is the same thing as hatred. See, that's a relationship of hatred. So you see these Islamic terrorists who want to kill the Jews. This guy meets a Jew. That's his relationship with them. Now, five is disassociation, which is dislike. You disassociate yourself from someone who you dislike, see? Interesting. So Each scale is unique. As I said, that's a benefit because the way you use this is, I just showed you an example. You know this guy's having trouble with his relationship. You show him the scale of relationships, right? Then you say to him, lemme show you something else, Fred, and you open up the book to the scale of sexuality. He says, you mean there's a scale of sexuality? You say, yeah, you don't have to tell me if you don't want, but for your own illumination, where are you on the scalp? He's going to want to know that because he's having trouble with this. You see? And he'll find a bracket, he will say, well, definitely it's not six or seven. That's got nothing to do with me. And I can see it's not one or two. I don't even understand those. That's got to be like 3, 4, 5. So you got it down to three. So he's only got a select from among three. He said, okay, read it and then you can nail it. Exactly. So he reads it, he comes back, he says, well, I can see I'm at level four. And he might also say, and I can see that Gertrude is at level five. No wonder we're having so much trouble. I already know on that scale, you must be compatible, get compatible levels in order to have a workable romantic relationship. Some of these are patently conflicting. I mean, a level four is can have sex, and level five is can't have sex. Well, duh. If one person is at five, more level is a four, it's not going to happen. So again, he could do a couple of things. You can say, well, I'm going to use this and see if I can get her up to level four, and then we'll be at the same level and that'll solve the problem. Now, we don't know if she's going to want to do that because you can lead a horse to water, but you can't let him make him drink. She might say, oh no, that has nothing to do with me. See, maybe she's not honest enough to see it. And I'll tell you something else that I insist upon. Never tell anyone the level of any living person on any scale, it's counterproductive and unethical. You know how the wife goes to the husband and says, you know what your problem is? You need to get a better job. You need to make more money. That doesn't help him. He resists that. He doesn't want to hear that. It doesn't matter if you know it or not, maybe you've got it exactly right. What he should do is show the person the book, say, tell me where are you on this scale? This is not hard to get, especially if you have somebody helping you as a tutor would. So then the next thing is you say, okay, Fred, lemme show you this. You show 'em the scale of allegiance. I already know whenever a relationship deteriorates, it's always because allegiance deteriorates. So there was a point when they fell in love and they loved one another. Maybe they love honor and cherish and all that stuff. So now it's not so good. So one or both of descended the scale of allegiance. So think about this, right? He's going out with Gertrude, but he goes behind his back and goes out with Betty Lou. See, that's kind of a betrayal. That is a lowering of allegiance. Now, maybe she didn't find out about it, but still it affects him. See? So he can look at this and say, well, yeah, I can see, yeah, I'm down at level three. That's not so good. I'm going to move myself back up to level two. You see? And then the relationship is better. And he could also spot her on this. He can say, well, I can see that she's at level three also, so I can use this on her to help her. You see? And then you can say to him, let's look at the scale of permeation or permeation. Monitors love, meaning when people love one another, it's because they're permeating one another. Permeation is the basic action of a spiritual being. When there is love, there is permeation. It's because of the permeation. So level one on that scale is a very, very high level. It's complete permeation with the people are like in unity, very rare. So I could keep doing this. I could do another half dozen in this hypothetical. And the reason for that is in something like a romantic relationship, it's complicated. There's a lot going on. You're talking about two different people. They're at different levels on different scale. They have different values, different backgrounds. No matter how much they are compatible or get along in some way, there's always going to be a complexity. So he could go through and he could find Gertrude on all 35 scales. And by the time he finishes that, he understands her better than she understands himself. And I'm not exaggerating. I've been doing this for years with people. I do a complete analysis. I'll say, this person doesn't have a clue. They don't know where they are on this scale of this. They don't even know the scale exists. You could ask them and they don't know. And even if you show it to them, they might not be up to it. See, they might be in one of those categories. Maybe somebody with a personality disorder or somebody who has brain damage from drug use. There's a lot of reasons why a person might come up, not be able to use this, but any normal person who can read English is going to be able to use this. So that's how this works. So Jim, the audience that's listening to this, you've laid out a lot of information for them. What is it that they can do by the book? Well, the first thing read the book. The first thing I would say is I invite them to my website, sep temic.com, S-E-P-T-E-M-I-C-S, where you can see what many readers have said about it, what many journalists have written about it, what the reviews are. You can read sections of the book itself, and there's a prerecorded introduction to STE for new people. Just listen to it, and by it takes about 15, 16 minutes, and at the end it say, oh, okay, I see how this works. So if you do all that, you're probably going to buy the book because it's available. Hard balance. Softbound and ebook. ebook is very inexpensive. You can download it in one minute. Okay? So you could, for 10 bucks, you could download the ebook and completely change your life. Now, I was very careful to write this book in a way that once you have the book, you don't need anything else in order to use it. You don't need to hire a facilitator, you don't need to go to a therapist, you don't need to take a class, you don't need to join a church, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's just you and the book. The only thing you might need is a dictionary. But I would say that for every book on earth, I've been involved in education from the age of three to this very day. I would never teach anyone anything without having a dictionary. But everybody has a dictionary now in his pocket. So you say permeation, what's that? Well, I give the definition right before the chapter I give it. There is a glossary, not only in front of every chapter, but even in front of the introduction there glossary. I'm telling you with specificity words what these words, me. So for example, there's a scale of communication. Somebody can say, well, if you look up, the word communication has 30 or 35 definitions. Which one is he using? Well, I give you one specific short definition of communication right out of a dictionary. It's correct, and it is the one that fits the best. So he said, okay, I got it. It's that, see, there's no ambiguity. You have to understand. Engineers hate ambiguity. There's no ambiguity in the world of engineering. It has to be right. Now, before we talked about how I developed this, and I want to finish that because after I had these 32 scales, I said, wait a minute, this looks like a new subject to me. And then I thought this could help people. If I give this data to people, they could use this to straighten out their lives. So I'm going to have to write a book. So I spent the next 25 years working on this book, because you have to realize, first I had to discover the phenomena, and I already told you largely how that was done. Although I did discover three more scales as I was writing the book, then I had to take this data and I had to use it to craft a workable philosophical system. Now, you have to understand all engineers, I'm only interested in facts and results. Two, engineering opinions and beliefs are utterly irrelevant. So I had to craft something that would work all the time with every person who would be interested in this. That took 20 years. But the most time consuming part of this was expressing this in a way that would make sense to the average reader. See, every level on every scale has a name. So I had to get that name exactly, you see? So that not only did I had to get it exactly, but I had to express it in a way that a person would read it and say, oh, yeah, I see. I get it. So I give examples of famous people on certain levels who are deceased. For example, I say Abraham Lincoln, on the scale of basic purposes, was at level two, which is leader. And the purpose of the leader is to conquer. Well, he was determined to conquer the confederacy. He had very little help. His generals wouldn't fight his cabinet, gave him a hard time. And until he found an obscure general named Grant who was willing to fight the war did not go well. And Grant's friend Sherman, those two guys won the war, but he was down for that the whole time. He wanted to defeat the Confederacy. That's what a leader does for Winston Churchill. He also was a leader conquering the Nazis. He was saying, for 10 years before the war, we have to stop Hitler, because if we don't stop now, we're going to have to stop him later and it'll be worse. The Nazis wanted peace, wanted to make a treaty with the English. Churchill said, no way, we're going to defeat them. That's what a leader does. So you can say, well, gee, conquest, that's not a good thing. Oh, really? That is a matter of whose ox is being gored. Right? So if some guy comes in, my house breaks into my house in the middle of the night and I shoot him, that's justifiable homicide. It's called castle law. Right? You don't break into somebody's house in the middle of the night unless you want to get shot, at least in Arizona, because in Arizona, everybody has a gun. We have open carry. People walk around with guns. So I had to say, well, it took me a long time to settle on that word conquer, but that's the right word. You see? So the names of all of the scales have a synonym, and the names of every level has a synonym. So I'm giving you depth of understanding. There's a secondary word to explain. What do I mean by that? For example, you asked me about the scale of relationships. I said, enmity, hatred. So when you see hatred between people, that's enmity. That's level six. So this is really useful. And generally when people use this, the experience they have is it's like putting on eyeglasses and looking in the mirror. You see yourself better. So you can see, I wear glasses in order to see you on the screen, right? Yes. So if I want to get a good shave, I have to have my glasses. Otherwise, if I put 'em on later on, oh, I missed all these spots. That's what this book is like. It's like a lens that you hold up either to yourself or to another. So you look at your mother through this lens, let's say the scale of control. Where is my mother on the scale of control? Oh, I see where she is. That explains why she does this, this, this, and this. See, you have a realization. You nailed it. Now you know what she's doing. And when she pulls this on you, again, you understand it. You may not be able to do anything about it, but you understand it. So I'll give you a historical example. Bill Clinton, everybody knows Bill Clinton is a smart man. He was a Rhode Scholar, I haven't seen, and a great communicator. Yes, I've listened to him speak many times, okay? He is a smart guy. He listens, he thinks about it, and he gives you an intelligent answer. You might not agree with his answer, but he's cognitively coherent. Unlike the current president who is at the opposite extreme, blah, blah, blah, blah. So if you said to me, Jim, bill Clinton's coming over, why don't you come over and you can talk to him? I would be there in a New York minute because I would love to talk to him about politics and government. He knows a lot, right? However, if you've been paying attention in the last 30 years, you already know he's a serial abuser of women. He got into all kinds of trouble because of the way he treated women. So if I had a daughter or a sister, I'd say, don't go out with Bill Clinton. Now, isn't that, am I contradicting myself? No, because he's high on one scale and low on another. I'm not giving any levels. But you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that. So that's how most of us are. Now, I can tell you, there's only about 1% of the population that is at or near the top of all the scales. There is about 4% of the population that is at or near the bottom of all the scales. Those people cause a lot of trouble. Most of us are high on some scale and low on others. So you have some guy, he has a billion dollars. He's the head of a corporation. He lives in a $20 million condo, but he can't get anywhere with women. So you see high on one skill, low on another skill. So you can get that kind say, come over here. Let me help you with this. Look at this scale. See? So this is not about judgment. It's not about criticism. As I said, don't tell anybody anybody's level. Even if you know Joe's level, don't say to your wife, Joe's at this level on this. Don't do that. Say, here, look at this. What do you think? See, because when she gets it, she'll say, oh, now I see he's at this level on the scale of attack that explains why he does this, this, and this. See, so this is really useful. I can absolutely guarantee that if you use this book, it will prevent catastrophes, disasters, bankruptcies, indictments, lawsuits, divorces, fist fights, because you're forewarned. It happens to me all the time. I meet a lot of people, right? And I'll see somebody and I'll say, oh, this guy's at the bottom of the scale. No, thanks. Have a nice day. Goodbye. Exactly. Now, look, before when I was a young man, this data didn't exist. I hadn't figured it out yet. So I made the same stupid mistakes that everybody else makes, but now, for me, it cannot happen. Will not happen, does not happen. So I want everybody to be able to have that benefit because your success is my reward. That sounds really good. I'm looking forward to reading the book. I'm going to get myself a copy today. I appreciate your time in the show. I know I've asked you some questions and you've very well explained your philosophy. Is there anything else you want to say before we go? No, not really. That this is natural law. It's true. Whether you say it's true or not, the earth has been going around the sun for billions of years before Copernicus noted it and brought that idea into European society. These sales have been there all along, just like the Fibonacci numbers. You can look at all these living things. They construct themselves according to Fibonacci numbers. They don't even know what numbers are buying. Cone has Fibonacci numbers going one way, the other way. It's got another Fibonacci number. Well, Fibonacci came along and said, ah, there's something going on here. There's a pattern here. And he figured it out, and he gave it to us. So that's what this book is like. I figured this out. I'm giving it to you. It's easy to get to use, and I hope that it makes your life better. Thank you, Jim. I appreciate you, my friend. I will be in touch. Thank you, Eddie. For. More information and monthly topics of interest, please go to transform Your future.com and join our newsletter.