Welcome to "Raw Minds: Men's Mental Health," the podcast where hosts Erick and Joey delve into the heart of male emotional wellbeing. In this powerful 25th episode titled "Denial Exposed: Men's Mental Health and the 5 Stages of Grief," we embark on the first chapter of a five-part series examining the stages of grief through the personal experiences and insights of our hosts.
**Denial** looms large as the initial stage that many confront following a profound loss. For Erick, it has been a harrowing 9 months since the loss of his fiancée—an event that plunged him into the depths of denial. Through his journey, Erick reveals the coping mechanisms that eventually led him to face his reality and the strategies he used to navigate past this stage.
Joey shares the agony of losing a son, an experience that no parent should ever have to endure. He discusses how he confronted the denial that followed and the steps he took to begin the healing process. Both hosts lay bare the emotional fortitude it takes to move through denial and reach for acceptance.
In this episode, we dissect:- **The Role of Denial in Men's Mental Health**: We explore denial as a common reaction to loss and its complex role in the grieving process, particularly for men who may have been conditioned to suppress their emotions.- **Societal Pressures and Emotional Pain**: Erick and Joey discuss how society often expects men to be stoic in the face of adversity, leading to a tendency to ignore or minimize their emotional pain. This conversation aims to dismantle harmful stereotypes and encourage open dialogue about men's mental health.- **Strategies for Acknowledging Loss**: The hosts offer insights into the crucial steps toward acknowledging and validating loss. They discuss the importance of recognizing grief's impact on mental health and the power of validation in the healing journey.
Join Erick and Joey as they courageously tackle these topics, offering hope, understanding, and a sense of camaraderie to those who walk a similar path. "Denial Exposed" is not just an episode; it's a lifeline to any man wrestling with the silent echoes of grief. Tune in to "Raw Minds" and take the first step toward healing with us.
Welcome to "Raw Minds: Men's Mental Health," the podcast where hosts Erick and Joey delve into the heart of male emotional wellbeing. In this powerful 25th episode titled "Denial Exposed: Men's Mental Health and the 5 Stages of Grief," we embark on the first chapter of a five-part series examining the stages of grief through the personal experiences and insights of our hosts.
**Denial** looms large as the initial stage that many confront following a profound loss. For Erick, it has been a harrowing 9 months since the loss of his fiancée—an event that plunged him into the depths of denial. Through his journey, Erick reveals the coping mechanisms that eventually led him to face his reality and the strategies he used to navigate past this stage.
Joey shares the agony of losing a son, an experience that no parent should ever have to endure. He discusses how he confronted the denial that followed and the steps he took to begin the healing process. Both hosts lay bare the emotional fortitude it takes to move through denial and reach for acceptance.
In this episode, we dissect:- **The Role of Denial in Men's Mental Health**: We explore denial as a common reaction to loss and its complex role in the grieving process, particularly for men who may have been conditioned to suppress their emotions.- **Societal Pressures and Emotional Pain**: Erick and Joey discuss how society often expects men to be stoic in the face of adversity, leading to a tendency to ignore or minimize their emotional pain. This conversation aims to dismantle harmful stereotypes and encourage open dialogue about men's mental health.- **Strategies for Acknowledging Loss**: The hosts offer insights into the crucial steps toward acknowledging and validating loss. They discuss the importance of recognizing grief's impact on mental health and the power of validation in the healing journey.
Join Erick and Joey as they courageously tackle these topics, offering hope, understanding, and a sense of camaraderie to those who walk a similar path. "Denial Exposed" is not just an episode; it's a lifeline to any man wrestling with the silent echoes of grief. Tune in to "Raw Minds" and take the first step toward healing with us.
yeah, yeah, yeah, welcome back everybody. Thanks for tuning in. As always, it is great to be back. We are unedited, unfiltered, and always we are going raw. My name is Joey.
Speaker 2:And I'm Eric and we're your hosts. And welcome to Raw Mind. Whoa man Doing a big episode 2-5. Yeah, buddy, I think this is going to be a very interesting one for us, definitely Starting something a little different here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm actually excited about it. I think it's definitely something that we need to talk about, definitely, I think, especially in tonight's episode on this topic. I think majority of the people out there live in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Definitely it's a big one, for sure. I lived in it for years, and so have you. It's a tough one to get through, you know, and all these things that happen to us in our lives and these traumas, and, yeah, we don't want to believe half of it or accept it. Yeah, you know. So we're in denial, you know, with all these things that happen, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what we're going to speak on is the role of denial in men's mental health. Pretty much that's what we're going to start this off with. We're going to do the next couple episodes. We're going to touch on the different stages of grief. Obviously, like we said, we're going to deal with denial first. It's the very first stage that anybody goes through Grief, and we're not just talking about death too. Man, you can grieve a job, your favorite sport. Something happens and you can't play it anymore. You know there's all different types of grief relationships.
Speaker 1:Yeah, loss of a loved one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and then obviously death too, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, friendships, you name it. There's all different levels and we, we all deal with it or have had to deal with it in some form or another. Yeah, especially when things that happen to you that are extremely painful or hurtful, or you don't want to accept it, so you're in denial of it, you don't want to believe it, you don't want to believe that this has happened to you, you don't want to believe that that person's gone. Yeah, you know what?
Speaker 2:I mean, that's not your reality anymore. You know what I mean. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's definitely not your reality and it's a tough pill to swallow, especially when you go through loss of loved ones and breakups. It's extremely difficult, yeah, and because you feel that way, you don't want to accept it and you just you're in total denial of you can't believe that person would do that to you. You can't believe that. I was talking to that person yesterday and now they're gone yeah right.
Speaker 1:So it's. It's a. It's definitely a hard pill to swallow and to get through is the denial stage of that first stage. You know me reading back of what these five stages were and me thinking back to when I was in the time of my life where I was dealing with a lot of grief. I'm like, yep, I definitely went through every one of those plus more. Right, yeah, so.
Speaker 2:But when you're in that sorry, I'm just saying when you're in that though it's like you know it's it, everything piles on even more and more, so it's even more. A hundred percent. You know what I mean. You just you're fighting your, your own mental health, like that's why I was just trying to touch on that. Like what you said is you know and more I mean it's it's, it's you're fighting your own self in your head. Really Right, you know you're, you're you're own worst enemy. At that point, you know, like you said, denial man, you can't believe it's real.
Speaker 1:Yep, sorry, I didn't mean it, I just wanted to touch on that because no, no, oh, a hundred percent and you're a million percent correct, right, yeah, a million percent correct, right, yeah, because you're battling yourself right. You're having conversations with yourself daily and you're creating. Well, even for me, I created my own anxiety, sometimes fighting myself, having conversations with myself, telling stories in my head, literally one person talking to another. But it's myself battling and it was a constant, you know. It weighed me down, it caused my anxiety, it pushed me into farther depression. So it's denial. It's a heavy weight to carry, for sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know well it's the start to, to the, to the fucking, everything else that falls behind it. Right, you know, that's the. It leads the charge. I guess you could say Million percent.
Speaker 1:And that's why they made that as your first stage, because everyone goes through that. When these things happen, you know, especially when you're that hurt, you don't want to believe it. You know there's like there's no way that they could do that to me, there's no way that they're gone, there's no way that this is over even sobriety too, right, denial.
Speaker 2:You know that's the first two you got to get. You know, I do have a problem. You got to get past that. Right, it's denial. No, I don't, no, I don't really you do. I mean even sobriety.
Speaker 1:It it's the first thing well, especially with people who who have addiction problems and alcoholics and etc. Etc. As you know, they don't want the help because they don't think they need it, because they're in denial, I don't have a problem. I only do this on the weekend. So like, yeah, but even if it is the weekend because I know a lot of people who grew up with who do to only do that stuff on the weekends, but they're weekend warriors Like that's still a problem.
Speaker 1:You're a binge drinker problem, you're a binge, you're a binge drinker, you're a binge addict. Basically, on the weekends, like that's still, you don't have to do it every day is whether it's drugs or alcohol, for it to be a problem, yeah, right, but when you're because I knew people that before they got paid, I'm buying a fucking eight ball, I'm buying this and I'm fucking partying all week, every, every single time, that's a fucking problem. You know, and if you're, if you're going broke doing these things, like that's a problem, and then like, well, you know, you look out for your friends or you see that like, hey, man, like I think you really need to slow it down. Well, no, I don't, I don't have a problem, I go to work, you know. You know, and there's different levels right of the denial.
Speaker 2:So I, I was there, man, I would fucking go out party next morning. I would wake up and like holy, fuck my wallet, man, it's gone, all my money's gone, you know and just, and it's a waste really at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:You know, it's a big waste of money, man well, you know, that's, that's just thing, but it's, you know. And then some people refuse to look at their own lives in general and they're not happy, but they're in denial because they don't want to believe that. Even denial, like with self-doubt, you don't want to believe in yourself that you can do better, you can get a better job. You're in denial and telling yourself you can't do this and you can't do that because of this. Well, you know, when you live in that denial, how do you expect to change as well? Right so, but a lot of people they uh, it's a, it's a, it's a tough, it's definitely a heavy weight to carry, you know yeah but, well before we start, man.
Speaker 2:I have to say, though, like this is okay, you know these, what you feel and what you go through in these things is normal though you know it's. It's normal to fee feel denial, you know, and the depression and the anger, you know, and everything else that follows behind that. Like it's normal, like you do have to go through these things, especially in grief. You know, like when someone passes away, you have to go through these stages. You can't go around them, you have to go through them. You know it's just part of the, the whole healing journey, right? So, like, don't feel excluded, like, oh, why am I going through this? Like it happens, I went through it when Jules passed away, you know.
Speaker 2:So it's like you have to do it. You can't go around it. There's no hiding from it. You can't go over it. You know. You got to go through it. You got to feel it and then you got to go through it. You got to feel it and then you got to move on. Like I said, if you you just wait around and oh, poor me and all this and play victim, you're gonna get left behind. Like I said, the world keeps on moving, man, and if you don't move with it, you're gonna get left behind. So it's okay to feel these things and that's why we're bringing them up and we're talking about this is because these are. These are normal things that we go through, that we as human beings well, of course, but, just like you said, we're human beings.
Speaker 1:We have emotions. Doesn't matter if you're the biggest tatted up jack dude, to whoever, it doesn't matter where. We have emotions. We have, you know, feelings, whether.
Speaker 1:And the reason we talk about this and do this show as well is because most people won't talk about their feelings and won't talk about their what's going on with them, and and because they're in denial, right, they don't want to believe that this happened to them when they were a child, they don't want to believe that they lost their mother. They don't want to believe these things and they're in denial. And Then they become more in denial with themselves because they don't want to reach out and get that help, because they're oh, I'm okay, I'll just go to work, I'm fine. But you're in denial in yourself on how you're truly feeling and what you're struggling with, right? So there's all different levels to it, right.
Speaker 1:So it's a tough one, man, it's definitely a tough one, but, like you said, we're human beings and it is normal, especially in those kind of situations, because you don't want to believe that You're hurting, you're in pain, you're crying every day, you're sad and you don't want to feel that way.
Speaker 1:So you try to push that down and that's where the denial comes from, because you don't want to believe that. You don't want to believe that you're hurting like that, you don't want to believe that they're gone when we're in. But in it you also can make yourself worse because now you're not trying to get that help, you're not reaching out, and that's what with most people is they stay in denial for so long that they live in a constant state of depression, because that's where some of that victim mentality comes out and because they don't want to believe that they're messed up or they need help and they just stay in denial. No, I don't have problems, I'm fine, I'm good, I take care of my kids, I go to work, but man, they're the ones that's struggling the most. But they're into now.
Speaker 2:Autopilot, like you said, man, A lot of people in that fight or fight mode. You know what I mean. That's, when you kick into autopilot You're just moving forward or running away. You're not really dealing with the issue at hand.
Speaker 1:I guess you could say 100% is not dealing with it and then, like you said, I think, in the beginning, is like it just starts to pack on other things because you're not dealing with that now, because this is life, and no matter how good your life is, something's gonna be there around the corner to kick you in the head from time to time and all these other things that you push down and then you're in denial about.
Speaker 1:Well, now you've stacked this on top of that and this, just like I did for years, and then it blew up in my face and then that's when people hit that rock bottom and because they never dealt with them, they were in so much denial with that that happened, or this that happened to them or whatever it is, that ends up making themselves worse, because they sat in it for too long and they refused to believe that they are messed up or they do need help, or that did happen. So they just distract themselves like we do as humans, like, well, I just work more. Or some people, I just drink every day, and those temporary nights that's where that comes in, because they feel better about themselves when they do this, or they drink this or they smoke that. So they just keep doing it because they're living in denial every day and then they get complacent.
Speaker 2:Right then you just get complacent and then you just live in that because it's that's what you know, that's what's easy for you and you know you got to get uncomfortable. That's how you grow is getting uncomfortable, you know, test yourself. But let's get into a little bit here. So when would you say denial has affected you the most, like in a situation, and what did it do to you, like, how did it make you feel you?
Speaker 1:know, I was thinking about that before we started talking tonight about times in my life and the denial and that stage. And you know, like I, like we said earlier, is it comes in all different levels and things that happen to you and whatever it may be, and there's been a lot of things that has put me in that denial stage in my life, you know, and the hardest one for me was when I lost my son. You know, and the hardest one for me was when I lost my son. You know, I think we talked about it quite a few episodes ago. Briefly and basically, long story short. You know, when I was about 22 years old, so 20 years ago, I dated a girl. She had a kid and that was mine for two years, Called me dad, called my mom grandma, he was my whole world and I went away for work one time for a week, found out she was cheating In the argument. Of course, when I found out, because you're upset, you're pissed off. How could you do this? Whatever, by the way, that kid's not yours and after two years, hearing that all of a sudden that might not be my son was obviously devastating.
Speaker 1:And for my birthday my mom got me the DNA test and that was the letter I got on my birthday. My mom got me the DNA test and that was the letter I got on my birthday. And I see my mom and she gave me that letter and it turns out that he was not my son. So that day, in a blink of an eye, I lost my son. Now, even when I got that piece of paper, as hurt as I was, I didn't want to believe that he wasn't my son because he called me dad. That was my boy and I told her that I don't care what this piece of paper says, he's still my son and I still want to take him on the weekends whatever I can, because you know he knows me as dad.
Speaker 1:And that day I opened that piece of paper. I never seen him again because there was nothing I can do. She wouldn't let me see him because now she's with the guy she cheated on me with, you know, and it was interfering now with her new life. You know, and going through that, that denial stage, you know that denial stage, you know when you have a child and then all of a sudden you're told he's not yours, and the blink of an eye you can't see him anymore, literally overnight. It was like a death, you know, and I didn't want to believe that piece of paper. I couldn't believe I was in such denial that she could even do that to me, let alone to the kid. Yeah, I didn't want to believe that I'm not a dad anymore because of a piece of paper. And it was, obviously it was hard man and yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:I just couldn't accept. How did it make you feel, though, Like how did it make you like what were you going through, like?
Speaker 1:what were your emotions? Oh, I can recall, I think, the first day. I'm not proud, but you know, because I was so I was so angry and yet so broken at the same time. I had angry tears but I was shaking because I didn't know what to do with myself. I was just completely gone. But I was there and I remember and of course this is 20 years ago, so I'm a lot younger and not knowing how to deal with certain things and the tools that we've picked up along the way as we get older. But I went straight to the liquor store and of course, you know, I'm drinking and driving, I'm crying while I'm driving, I'm shaking violently, I'm gagging dry, heaving, you know, and yeah, your emotions and all are On shock pretty much.
Speaker 2:I'm like screaming in my car.
Speaker 1:In anger, trying to rip my steering Wheel off, to, half an hour later, balling In my car. So bad that I couldn't Even, like my eyes were just Filled with so much water that I couldn't Even see. You know what I mean. Like in front of me and it was literally like a back and forth of just screaming rage, like I just wanted to kill people. And then, literally a half an hour later, that rage just started breaking me down and I just fell, breaking me down and I just fell and I, I couldn't I it was I couldn't accept that. I didn't want to accept that. How can you accept that, like that was your son and he's gone and there's nothing I can do about it.
Speaker 2:So let me ask you a hard question here. It it's. Did you ever, in that moment, though, to feel like a bit of relief, you know, cause, like you know, this woman cheated on you. You found that it's not the kids, so I mean, you didn't have to deal with the back and forth of, like you know, the single parenthood and stuff. Was there any type of like like oh, thank god too at the same time, or was it just straight? Why?
Speaker 1:yeah, I don't for that. Back then I don't think there was a any sense of relief. Um, you know dealing like when, if you get cheated on in general, like that, that's a hard pill to swallow in its own you're, you're heartbroken. They cheated on you, you're for you're a disaster. Now throw this into the mix. And now, by the way, that's not your kid either. Holy shit, you know you're taking a baseball bat to the face from life. You know what I mean and it and that's a double whammy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. So there wasn't definitely a sense of relief and even when I read that piece of paper that day, as much as I was hurting just from her cheating, I still would have dealt with that pain and dealt with her for the rest of my life If I could keep him still be my son at that time. You know what I mean, Because that's your child and that little boy was my, was my, was my, everything man. And, like I said, he called my mom grandma and he was just yeah, it was just yeah, it was a hard one man.
Speaker 1:So I lived in denial for a long time. I couldn't accept it, I didn't want to accept it. But that denial because it went for so long, like we were just talking about tonight, is I started stacking up everything else with it, because in that denial comes with that sadness and depressions and the rest of that and these five stages you know, as we'll talk about is the weeks to come. But just in that denial stage, you know, I was so hurting too that I didn't want to believe that I was as bad as I was. So I never got the help to deal with that. You know what I mean yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, what about the kid? Was the kid old enough to somewhat?
Speaker 1:understand. No, he was three at the time. And you know, three years later, after that letter because, like literally that day, I'd never seen him again I tried, but she just wouldn't allow it. And three years later I went to the water park with my cousin and I was standing at the water park with my cousin's kids and all of a sudden I got a tug on the back of my shirt and I turn around that's him and I, and that was the only time in my entire life. I was speechless. I knew exactly who it was and he looked up at me and he's like I know you, you're daddy Joe, and I just I couldn't even say a word. And I looked up and she was walking away in the parking lot from a distance and that was the last time I seen him. It was just that one time.
Speaker 1:And he remembered me and uh, yeah, it was definitely a tough one man, but uh, you know, I lived in that, like I said, in that denial, for so long that I refused to get the help. I didn't want to believe I was as messed up as I was, as hurting as I was. You know, I try to distract myself, like we all do, like we just said, with the booze and the work, and you know I was getting into fights and I was just just, I was not good man, and right, rightably so.
Speaker 1:Like we said, we're human beings. Man like that's your little, that's your boy, that's your kid, that's that's your whole life, and overnight it's gone. And I understand, and you know that, that feeling too, in a different way, and your life can change in a blank way ever man.
Speaker 1:And yeah, so the denial man that that's you really, I know, because we are human and we have emotions and it is normal to go through those stages is you got to really try to be self-aware of that stage, I believe, in order to try it so you can heal and start getting through the steps to get to, you know, the end of the five stages, which is acceptance, but you have to go through, we have to go through these, and that's why this is actually a thing of the five stages, because we all go through it, but but, a lot of people I think most people they haven't got past the first stage Because they live in denial.
Speaker 1:They refuse to get the help Because they don't want to believe this, they don't want to believe that and they never get to the point Of acceptance to make their lives better and to deal with the things that has happened or that they even that they've done because they're living in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what, though, man? It's hard. It's hard, you know, and what I can't understand is not only did this woman hurt you and your feelings and mess up everything about you that's going on in your head, but also it's playing games with this kid into this world. Lie to your partner, say that it's his kid well, your kid, in this case, you know and then the kid grows up calling you dad, and all this, and then all of a sudden, boom, you're gone. Like talking about setting that kid up for trauma you know, what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like this kid at the time, he doesn't know, like where's dad, all of a sudden, literally overnight. He doesn't get to see his dad ever again. That's all he. That's all he would see or feel. Exactly Now my dad's not around. He left me, exactly yeah, Dad is gone. Where's dad? And who knows what she's telling the kid afterwards because she's with this new guy, not to mention the new guy that she left me for back then did drugs. She didn't do drugs when I was with her and she ended up having another kid with this guy, a daughter. And three years later, after I told you that, he pulled my shirt at the park I think it was two months after that, it was Valentine's Day and she overdosed in her living room in front of those two kids and died Because he got her on the drugs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Isn't that always the case, man? You know, girls with a good guy cheats on that guy with some fucking dirt bag, leaves the good guy for some guy that does drugs, ends up that girl starts doing drugs and then either both of them are gonna od or usually one of them ods and that's. It's really sad, man, but I've heard this story over and over.
Speaker 1:You know my son now, so many times living proof right there, like my, my son now today he's almost 14. Now his mother is a homeless drug addict, on the street sleeping in a tent with her boyfriend. So it's yeah, it's not easy, man, but that denial though and that's another thing, bro, that's another thing you're.
Speaker 2:you know your son's gonna have to deny this. He'll be in denial. No, no, you know what I mean Growing up. That's just another form.
Speaker 1:My son's mom has now been on the street, if you will, for at least four years. My son's almost 14, so when he's nine years old, he's old enough to see that I lived with mom Literally overnight. I don't live with mom anymore. Where's mom? And she shows up literally once every two months, maybe three, for half an hour. Like you want to talk about abandonment issues, he's. You know, my son back then was three, he was nine, like oh, he's where's my mom. My son had double leg surgery and his mom didn't even come to the hospital To see him. It's heartbreaking, you know, but yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It's the power of drugs, though, man, and it's sad.
Speaker 1:Well, there you go. My son's mom was a very good mom. At one point like almost annoyed the hell out of me. She'd always call when I had can I talk to him again? And I talked like a great mother very loved him to death, was her whole world. And then she just started going down. And then you know, just as we're talking about the denial, I even tried to help her. At one point Her parents offered to pay for the biggest, best rehabs around to help her, but she constantly lived in denial that she didn't have a problem and till this day is still using and a lot of people are doing this is they're in denial. They don't want to believe that they screwed up. They don't want to believe that they screwed up. They don't want to believe that they have problems. They don't want to believe that they're hurting because they're you or that person's never coming back again.
Speaker 1:I'm fine. And then they just overwork themselves or they over drink themselves or whatever the case may be, or they're always, or even other things like gambling or constantly. What is it? Retail therapy? They're going broke, feeding their anxiety and denial because I feel better if I just keep going on these trips and I keep buying these cars. Fuck, I was one of those guys, man buying a car, flipping it. You know what I mean. There's different levels to it, but it's all denial. Fuck, I was one of those guys, man buying a car, flipping like. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:There's different levels to it, but it's all denial because you don't want to feel the way you're feeling and you don't want to believe it well, you're masking, right, that's what it is you're masking and then it's just a type of coping mechanism mechanism right at the end of the day, right. I mean, we all have some kind of coping mechanism. You know, dealing with different things day to day. You know some people they need to read a book before they go to sleep. It's still a type of coping mechanism, you know what I mean, to calm down or whatever. But there's healthy ones, ones, and then obviously there's ones that are definitely not healthy.
Speaker 1:Well, that's kind of good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you know, like I was just going to say, I was going to touch on a little bit of a different type of denial.
Speaker 1:What happened to me Okay well for anyone that's new listening. My co-host here, eric. He can talk, obviously, more on it, but part of the reason why we're doing this show on his end is that he lost his fiancée last Father's Day, literally overnight, and it changed his whole world and she was a very good friend of mine. But when that happened for you, I can't imagine. We've all lost family, but in your case, this is your fiance, this is the person you were going to spend it with.
Speaker 1:That was your person 100 in that, you know what was you know, kind of in the beginning of that, obviously being distraught on the initial news, but in the days and weeks following, like how are you what was going through your mind? Like, what were you thinking? Like how are you what was going through your mind? Like, what were you thinking?
Speaker 2:Like, how did you take this in? Well, let's just go right to the day of you know, because that's where it kind of all stemmed from, you know. So she passed away at her mom's house and I called her phone in the morning. She didn't pick up. So then I called her mom and her mom was just screaming on the phone. Bro, just screaming, bring her back, she's gone, Bring her back, she's gone, bring her back, eric, bring her back.
Speaker 2:And I was almost like is she laughing? You know what I mean? Like it's not, like it wasn't fully cluing in, because I didn't want it to be reality. I guess you could say, you know, and that was, I swear to god, that was the start of the whole denial. In. There is that phone call where it it almost sounded like she was laughing, because she was screaming hysterically, right, obviously with good reason. But, um, just in those like seconds it made me like, is she laughing? Like no, this can't be real, you know, you would never think. You know your person, you just saw her and then all of a sudden they're gone, right, so definitely like denial kicked in right away. And then I'm like no, no, no, I just woke up. I literally just woke up, first thing I did was call and it just didn't fully click in man.
Speaker 2:And then I drove to her house, which was a block away, and then, as soon as I walked in that door, reality kicked in. When I walked in, there was a cop standing at the bottom of the staircase not letting anybody go upstairs because she was deceased on the ground. Her mom found her in the morning at 8.30, and she was laying on the floor. She already had liquids coming out of her. It's post Morgum or whatever it's called all that stuff that starts flying out of their bodies when you die. You like shit yourself. All your, all the holes in your body's liquid start like coming out. So she was already like that. So she was.
Speaker 2:They said she passed away between was it 10 and 12 o'clock on father's day. It's like fuck, was this some kind of joke? You know so, definitely you know it. Just it didn't feel real. You know I couldn't fully accept it at that moment, even though I saw her body leave the house on the gurney or whatever the hell it's called. Yeah, it just didn't feel real. And they asked if I wanted to come up and see her one last time. I said no, there's no way I'm going to go and see the person that I loved. Look like that you. You know, I mean there's like. The last memory I had of her was, um, she hugged me, gave me a big kiss, told me she loved me on Father's Day, before right. So I'm happy to keep that memory.
Speaker 2:But for for weeks, months, it didn't feel real. It felt like she was going to come home, you know, like the door was going to open and it was a big joke, or she's coming back from vacation or something like that. It just it did not feel real, even though I know she was gone and she was dead, and I mean when you die it's forever, right, like nothing is forever except for death, like that shit's forever. You know it was. I still, to this day, sometimes think, oh, she's going to call me or she's going to walk through my door. You know it's hard.
Speaker 2:I know she's gone, I'm okay with her gone. I mean I'm okay as best as I can be in death with someone gone, you know. But yeah, I mean, even now, even though I know she's gone, she's never coming back, I still feel like she's going to walk through that door, which, I mean it's been almost 10 months now and it just it's. It still feels like that. Do I know she's not going to walk down? I hope to be honest with you, I don't. I don't want no zombie jewels walking through my door. You know what I mean. Like I hope she would walk through like a hundred percent beautiful, back to normal, but that's never going to happen. And that's kind of when I I realized that she's not coming back, she's dead and forever. Death is forever.
Speaker 2:So that's when the denial started kind of spinning into, I would say, anger and depression. I mean those two just kind of intertwined right. But I mean I will always feel like she's going to walk in on that door. It's weird, it's a weird feeling. It's just a weird feeling because the way that I saw her, she was full of life. You know she gave me a big hug. She was full of life. You know she gave me a big hug, told me she loved me, told me happy Father's Day and she's going to go back to her mom's house and she'll see me when the kids go home, and never saw her again.
Speaker 2:So I mean it's, it's yeah, it's hard, man, but hate to say it, I'm going to probably sound like an asshole here, but I hate to say it. I'm going to probably sound like an asshole here, but people die. It's really shitty that people die sooner than they should, but it's part of life and a lot of times if you play with fire, you're going to get burnt and as shitty as that sounds, it's the truth. I've lost way too many friends out there and family members to shit, you know, because you're playing with fire and it's it sucks. And on the other turn of that is the people that are still breathing and walking. We have to live with that.
Speaker 1:That, like we say in another, and then those are the family and friends of our lives are now in denial because you're gone, because of some choices that people make, like playing with fire, you know, with the drugs and the drinking and some other things that you know it's not natural causes, if you will, and yeah, it's extremely selfish and that causes that snowball effect of denial within your circle of friends and family and the people that love you.
Speaker 1:Because now you know, and even when it comes to people committing suicide, definitely Fuck. We were there. I tried twice, but if I actually did it at the time that I tried to do it and I succeeded, you know, I just passed on all my traumas and bullshit that I was failing to struggle with and deal with. I just passed it on to my son. I passed it on to my mother, my father, my sisters, my friends, and now look at the denial that they would have to live with because I'm gone. They didn't want to believe that their son is gone. My son doesn't want to believe that his son is gone. My son doesn't want to believe that his dad is gone.
Speaker 2:It's yeah, mate, I'll tell you that was one of the biggest wake-up calls ever. Man, I was in a fucking coma for two days, you know, and then waking up in the hospital alive, thinking like you know. And I'm waking up in the hospital alive, thinking like you know, you do what you do, thinking you're never going to wake up again. And then two days later I wake up in the hospital. You know, I'm glad I did, because that I said I'm never going to do this to my daughter. I will never leave her and do this to my daughter again. You know, like you said, it's, it's. You don't want them to go through that shit. Not only does it affect them and your family and everything, but when they get older, you know, it's how they deal with that. That's going to affect the relationships that they're going to have either with their partner or friendships or even their own family.
Speaker 2:See, when I tried, it was because my kid's mom ran away with my daughter for three months. I couldn't find her. You know, I was super depressed. I took a whole shitload bunch of pills and fucking. I was unconscious in my bedroom. Luckily, my buddy came in and found me. So imagine I die Now, when my daughter gets older, may she hold a grudge now against her mom, because her mom kept her away from me for three months and that's why I took my life. So it's a snowball effect. You know what I'm saying. Not only is it going to affect me, her family, but it's going to affect generation and generation and then, if she doesn't deal with that, she's going to pass that on or maybe even follow suit. When the snowball starts rolling, man, it'll roll and it'll roll hard and it's going to pick up everything around it.
Speaker 1:Pass down generational trauma, you know so. Thank God that we're still here. Pass down generational trauma and people don thank god that we're still here. Generational trauma and people don't realize that, yeah, everything that you choose not to, even if you're alive today, still here, and you're not dealing with all these traumas and issues that you've had to deal with in your life you are passing that down for your children to deal with. You are passing that on for your family to deal with.
Speaker 1:You definitely, man, getting to that point and I understand that more than anybody where I just could not, it was I thought it was easier for me to not wake up than it is to wake up and I tried to take my life. But if I did that, I just passed on all that trauma to my kids and my family and I just added to theirs. And, like you said, and when your daughter gets older, if you did take your life, not only now you just create abandonment issues just in your daughter, because what my dad doesn't love me, he can stay around for me. Now my daddy's gone and that the amount of trauma that that would cause that little girl and causes your children to anyone listening, because you choose and it's hard and I get it.
Speaker 1:It is so hard when you're in that place. I sympathize with that one million percent. But it is also up to you, and you only, to get out of that and to deal with that so your children don't have to deal with that, so your mom doesn't have to deal with that. And break that generational curse, you know. And then so many people act certain ways because this happened to me 20 years ago. My dad treated me like that. So I'm like that. That's bullshit. Don't be like these people that did to you, don't you know what I mean? Like, break that, be who you want, who you wanted them to be, to your kids, to your family. And it's a massive snowball, like you said, and it'll carry over and it'll carry over and it'll carry over.
Speaker 1:And as your daughter gets older and gets married one day, hopefully, and has children, what do you think she's passing to her kids if she doesn't deal with it? Because you've just put the weight of your shit on your daughter's shoulders by doing that. And now she's carrying not only the things that she deals with in her life because everyone's gonna, you know, get kicked in life but not only is whatever happens in her life that she's gonna have to deal with. She's also carrying the weight of your shit, or of their shit, onto your kids because you chose not to deal with your shit and you're living in denial and you choose not to face whatever it is that it is. You're living in denial and you choose not to face whatever it is that you're struggling with and you're masking it and you're avoiding it at all costs because you just can't deal with it. Well, guess what? They're going to deal with it. So remember that your children and your family and your friends are going to deal with it. Don't worry about it, don't deal with it.
Speaker 1:But the amount of damage that you're causing and you have no idea that you're causing, and if you are here and you don't choose that and that's why we're doing what we do with the show is hopefully that you don't get to the point where you pick that route because you are loved and you're not alone and we're here for you, whether you got nobody or not. But while you're here, even when you're struggling, you have to fight through that. Get through that denial, reach out, ask for help, say I got you know, admit that you have problems, whatever it is, and hit it face on problems, whatever it is, and hit it face on. Otherwise, you're just leaving it for the rest of your family and friends to deal with, because that's exactly what you're going to do. And not only that. If you do that, like for me, I was in denial for 20 years with all my shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to ask how did you get out of it? Like what, what changed you, what? What sparked that spark in you? To, to you know?
Speaker 1:get out of my life, because I, finally, I finally got to the next episode.
Speaker 1:I finally got to a point and I was so broken that I looked at myself in the mirror one day and I said I refuse to feel like this ever again. And I was having flashbacks of my whole life and the fact that I wasn't present for half of my life. I was there but I wasn't present. You know what I mean. But I wasn't present. You know what I mean Because I was so lost and I was so messed up and I was on the autopilot.
Speaker 2:Was it like how, when you would come and sit with me after Jules died and I'd just be staring into the abyss? Was it like that? It was like a functioning addict, without the jumps.
Speaker 1:Like I was just gone every day, but I was there and I could talk to you, but I wasn't registering half of what you were saying or retaining it, because I'm so focused on my anxiety and my depression and you know what I mean and you're obviously fighting yourself too, right?
Speaker 1:In your own head in my own healing and and all that too is, I realized that when, when I was in that autopilot stage in my own thoughts is I would come across as like almost self-centered, that it was always about me. And the reason I would come across is because I was so clouded in my own mind and thinking that I wasn't able to think about other people, and not intentionally because you know what I mean, or take time out of my day to see how you're doing, or even the little things. And then, even in my previous relationships, like, well, you don't even ask this or you don't even ask that, and I didn't mean to, it's just.
Speaker 2:Every day was a constant battle for me and every and you're too busy, probably talking to yourself, right that you're. You're having a conversation that you're not even you know you're, you're dealing with your own mental shit and because of it I could know that you can't.
Speaker 1:You're not there their needs, to meet their needs, and it was the simplest little things like well, you don't do this, I'm sorry, but and then I get so caught up in my own thinking and my own conversations in my head that I forget to ask about your day, or I forget, and it was never intentional. I was just struggling so bad every day, 24 7, that the only thing I could focus on is what, what's wrong with me, and not anybody else. So I came across a lot of self-centered and and I never meant that, and part of my healing was, you know that taking acceptance and accountability when you finally look in the mirror and for me, I had to look in the mirror and be like I don't want to feel like this ever again, you know, and, like you said, obsessing.
Speaker 2:Would you say obsessing you know, yeah. Would you say you were obsessing as well, like in your head, like, oh, dude, I ran the same scenario like all day, run a scenario like 40 different times and create scenarios.
Speaker 1:And then my overthinking. And then now I added, because I found the worst case scenario in every situation, even in the positive ones, like ones where something came up that you're supposed to and most people would be so excited oh, I get to do this. And then in my head I'm like, oh shit, what if this happens? And then boom, boom, boom and I wouldn't be excited about it. And they're like what's wrong with you? Why can't you? You know, it's like even the small things, like someone giving you a compliment. A lot of people can't take a compliment because they don't believe that in themselves. Right, you can say well, you're doing well, joey and Eric, you're doing such great things with this podcast and I'm not going to lie. Some days when we get told this, I appreciate it and you appreciate it, but it's hard for me to take in because I'm hard on myself still. You know what I mean, like dude, for what the thing is, that and what other people are doing in their life.
Speaker 2:It's the same thing.
Speaker 1:It's definitely when we're hard on ourselves, it's hard to take the compliments and the appreciation Like it means a lot, but it's hard to really some days just actually be like wow. Instead I'm like, well, I'm not where I want to be in life yet and I'm just fucking go, go, go and thank you. But I don't believe that. But thanks anyways. It's kind of like that right, you're always in your head when you're hard on yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anyways, and it's kind of like that, right, so you're just, you're always in your head when you're hard on yourself. Yeah, definitely, man. Yeah, it's weird, it's. I mean I, I, I feel the same way. It's like it's I feel like I'm not doing enough, like good enough.
Speaker 2:You know, you know, like I know, our goal is just, uh, I would say, put this content out there to you know, change people, you know, and show them that, um, they're not alone. You know, everybody is hurting some way somehow. But to build a community as well, right, and to show each other, you know, we got to stand together and help each other, especially in men's mental health. It's one of the things that's never talked about and that's why we're kicking down these barriers, man, you know, with a wrecking ball, with Miley Cyrus riding that shit. You know, like that's what we're trying to do here. We understand, and that's why I said, like it's, it's okay to feel these things. It's okay to feel the, the denial, it's okay to feel depressed, it's okay to feel these things, but, like Joey says, all the time, don't sit in it, man. It's not okay to sit in it forever. It's okay to feel it.
Speaker 2:Go through that shit, you know and find the lesson you know, figure it out. Find the lesson, you know. It could be a small lesson, a big lesson, but you need to learn what it's trying to teach you, because everything in life teaches you something, no matter what, and that lesson puts you right where you are at this moment. You could be, you know, you took a left instead of a right. Now you're sitting here listening to us talk. If you took a right, then maybe you wouldn't, you'd be listening to, I don't know, joe Rogan or someone. You know what I mean. I mean, like every little thing that you do in life gets you to the point you are at right now and now and now and now and so on. So it's okay to feel these things, it's okay to go through this shit, but like we said, it's not okay to sit there and just play victim and we get it exactly, and we get it, like me personally.
Speaker 2:You know a lot of people say, oh, suicide is the bitch way out, it's for blah, blah, blah. But I know, I know how a lot of these people feel that think about it or try to do it. I know this. You know what I mean. I don't know, you know. It's just, I know, but it's hard. It's hard because the decision to go ahead and do it is like it's like this, Like it's a tiny little. You know what I mean. And as soon as you cross that line, man, there's no turning back, you know. So it's like so thin, it's like like a hair thin. That's how close that line is. You know, and I get it because you don't want to feel that pain anymore. You know you don't want to feel that. You don't want to feel that pain anymore. You know you don't want to feel that. You don't want to.
Speaker 2:You know, feel depressed or feel alone, I get it. If anybody gets it, I get it. But it's way better to live, it's better to see the sun come up, it's better to see if you have kids grow their grandchildren. You know, make relationships with people, friendships, lovers, business, travel the world. I mean there's so much to do.
Speaker 2:It's just a matter of trying to get past that thin line of should I do it or not? And don't do it Because, like we said, it's going to affect everybody, not just yourself, it's going to affect everybody and then they're going to have to go through these stages. And if you really care about the people around you, you wouldn't put them through these grief stages and you would go and get some help, because that's true strength and that's what we preach here is reaching out, getting a counselor talking to a friend, whatever it may be. That's true strength right there. So I mean fight. Don't put other people through these stages of grief because they fucking suck your traumas and your stresses and your pains to your children and to the family around you.
Speaker 1:And, like Eric said, I understand it too. I tried to kill myself twice, and one was standing on the edge of a hotel looking down, thinking that I couldn't take this anymore. So if it wasn't for a security guard that grabbed me, I wouldn't be sitting here. But I'm grateful for it, and so we understand it. That's why we're doing what we do, because we've been there. We've been there, we've been at the lowest headspace that you could be in, to the point where, even with kids and family around you, that you still couldn't get through another day or didn't think you could. But, like Eric said, it is so much better to be here and to be alive, and whether you believe it or not, when you're in that that headspace of brokenness and sadness, that it is temporary. It is and it doesn't feel like it, because sometimes that that shit can last for a long time, but it's still temporary. It is and it doesn't feel like it because that shit can last for a long time, but it's still temporary and it's only up to you on how long you're going to stay in it and how long that actually lasts. And it's not an easy journey and it's very hard. Probably one of the hardest things you can do, to be honest, is, while in that, that, finding somewhere up here that little voice telling you to get up and there's a reason why you need to get up and whatever reason that is, you find it and you get up and you push, because I promise you that there are better days on the other end, because we are living proof. And never in my whole entire life did I ever imagine, after 20 years of depression and anxiety and stress, that I could sit here today and I still have issues we all do but it's ongoing. But from that to the clarity that I have on how I can look at the world and be present in your day and be with that person and be with your children and actually be with them and not just be there but your head's way over here, because you're struggling, like we said earlier, and and and that's what, and that's that is really. What you want is the clarity in your mind to be present and live your life and enjoy your life, because I didn't know how to enjoy my life for 20 years because I wasn't present, my head was not with me every day. It was somewhere else and it was an ongoing daily battle, to the point where I almost took my life. But, like I said, it's a difficult road to get out of that. But you have to find that little why that little voice telling you that it's not worth it and you need to get up. So you know and that, and that's why we're doing what we do.
Speaker 1:So if you're listening and you are in any of these stages of grief, or you're dealing with a loss and you feel alone or you have nobody, you have us. So do not be afraid to reach out. We answer all your messages, myself or Eric. You don't want to use your real name. We understand. If you want to leave your phone number, we call you. If you don't know how to find resources in your town, even though we don't live there, we'll help you find them Because, like Eric said, it is so much better to be living than to not be here and leave your family and your children with what you can do with. Break that generational curse, don't pass it on to your children and your family and get up. It's okay to not be okay, but it is not okay to stay in it and it is temporary, so just know there are better days on the other side. And we got your back.
Speaker 2:Well said, buddy. Well, man, man, I think this will cap it off for the first installment of the different stages of grief. So, yeah, we, I think, hit denial pretty hard and you know it's like we said, it's the first. So, yeah, we, I think, hit denial pretty hard and you know, it's like we said, it's the first emotion. I don't even know if you would even call it an emotion, I don't even know what to call it. It's a worthless, it's worthless, really, it's I don't know, but we hit it and it's the first thing that you, you, you go through, um, in any grief situation is denial, um, and, like I said, like you got to figure out, you know, you got to go through it and then figure out how to pull yourself out of that and pretty much come down to earth.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean, for me, knowing that forever is forever is kind of woke. What woke me up, you know. So I mean it's just a matter of trying to find the tool and the lesson. I guess and that was my lesson that shit's forever never coming back, and it made me kind of open my eyes more about death and appreciate it and at the same time it's kind of beautiful, man it really is death and appreciate it and at the same time it's kind of beautiful man. You know it really is because you, when it's right, let's just say that when it's right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:You, you pass on, you've left this beautiful life and now you're leaving it to another, another generation. So at times it can be, you know, it's sad at times but beautiful at the same time, because you know you've paved your way for that generation and know it's sad at times but beautiful at the same time, because you know you've paved your way for that generation. And now it's time for you to step aside and let the your other family members come up. You know, but I mean, I look at death differently. Um, I've had it so much in my life that I understand it, I respect it. My mom's raised me to understand it and not be scared of it, because at the end of the day, two things in life are for certain Taxes and death. So that shit's forever. I forgot, taxes is forever too. No matter where you go, you're spending and paying taxes. But spending and paying taxes, but anyways, man.
Speaker 1:I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:This is great what we're doing here, this grief installment. I think I hope it helps. Mini-series there we. Yes, I think it's cool. So buckle up, sit down, grab your favorite popcorn and enjoy the weeks to come. Yeah. And then, on that note, I will say like I just anyways, we're just mumbling. Now.
Speaker 1:It's podcast at gmailcom. Hit us up on Tik TOK. Like I said, you guys are really having a hard time and just know that you're not alone. We're here. Ask us any questions. You know myself and Eric are no psychiatrists, but we have lived our entire lives in trauma and abuse and loss of children and family, and the list goes on, and that's why we sit here today and every other week is to try to help you guys and offer, uh, just some tips and some tools that we've used to to come out of that. So that's all of this. We're just two regular guys that care, that give a shit about other people, that's right. So rawmindspodcast at gmailcom. Tiktok. Rawmindpodcast, dash. Yeah, is that it for TikTok? Tiktok? Give a shit and shoot in the shit podcast dash TikTok dot so, that being said, hit us up dot dot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, rawmindspodcast whatever platform you listen to us on now. We are on every other platform so and we drop new episodes every Friday. If you can think of it, we're on it, so check us out every Friday and you'll see us live on TikTok here as well, every Monday and days to come during the week. We're here if you need us. If you can't find good people, be good people.
Speaker 2:And then, on that note, man, thank you, thank you always, always thank you for the friendship. Thank you, you know, and, like you said, like you know, we've been through so much and we still go through things. You know I mean it's a never ending battle. It really isn't. I mean, right now I'm dealing with my mom not doing so good, you know, know what I mean. I mean, it's just it's never going to end. It's just a matter of having a good support system around you and just reaching out. If you, if you don't feel okay reaching out and that's what we do so reach out to us. If there's any kind of topic you guys want us to talk about, feel free, hit us up on the email and we'll do a little research and slap that bad boy right on the podcast. So, yeah, man, let us know. Anyways, it's that time again be good or be good at it. Bye. And let us know, anyways, it's that time again, be good or be good at it. Bye.