Raw Minds Ep. 26 - Anger Exposed: Men's Mental Health and the 5 Stages of Grief

In this powerful episode of Raw Minds, hosts Erick and Joey delve into the intricate web of emotions surrounding anger, men's mental health, and the 5 stages of grief. Titled "Anger Exposed," the conversation is raw, honest, and deeply personal.

Erick bravely shares his experience of grappling with anger not only from his own grief but also from the unjust blame he faced from the family members of his late fiancée, Jules. The weight of their accusations added layers of complexity to his mourning process, highlighting the challenges men often face in processing and expressing their emotions during times of loss.

Joey opens up about the profound pain he endured after discovering the truth about a child he thought was his own. Betrayal, deceit, and heartbreak intertwined as he navigated the aftermath of his ex-partner's lies and infidelity. His journey through grief sheds light on the vulnerabilities that men encounter in moments of profound emotional upheaval.

Through their candid discussions, Erick and Joey aim to break down stereotypes, challenge societal expectations, and encourage a deeper understanding of men's mental health struggles. "Anger Exposed" is a poignant exploration of the complexities of grief, loss, and betrayal, offering a beacon of empathy and solidarity for listeners navigating their own emotional landscapes.

Join Erick and Joey on Raw Minds Ep. 26 as they unravel the tangled threads of anger, men's mental health, and the 5 stages of grief with unflinching honesty and compassion. 

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:10

Welcome back everybody. It is a brand new night and a brand new show. We're doing something a little different. We're hitting you guys up with a little mini-series On the five stages of grief and, as always, we are unedited, unfiltered and we are going raw.

Speaker 1: 0:30

My name is joey and I'm eric and we're your hosts. And welcome to raw minds boom stage two, stage two of grief.

Speaker 1: 0:43

Yeah, buddy that's uh anger man it's a touchy one, man, it's a touchy one yeah, anger, um, I have to say, you know, I mean, like, I know there's like the stages, you know, like denial, anger, bargaining and so on, um, but they don't always come right after each other. You know, everybody's a little bit different. Denial is usually first, though, you know, and then anger usually follows, like normally, but in some instance, you know, it goes straight to anger, right, or even bargain.

Speaker 2: 1:28

Well, you know, like you you said, everyone's different, right? Some people don't even get out of denial. They live their rest of their life in denial and some people live their life angry. Yeah, you know, so it's it's. You know, when you look at the five stages, as they say, like it definitely makes a lot of sense through. You know, when you look back at a lot of the traumas and heartbreaks and all that that we've all been through, you know you go through those emotions and motions, you know. So when you read it and you look back, you're like, yeah, that makes a little sense that we go through all that. But again, like I said, some people will never accept and the acceptance and no, and some people will deny it for the rest of their life. Or some people will be angry for the rest of their life because I, we, we know a lot of people like that. I've grown up with a lot of people like that and I even I was like that for a long time.

Speaker 2: 2:31

And you know, with with things that people have done to you and the grudges that you hold and the anger that you just can't let go, and you just especially with with the anger right, because you go through not only when things are done to you that wasn't your fault. You, you know you really hold that against people and you live every day angry, know you're up, you're hurt, but at the same time, especially to the people that you thought were your friends and the people that you thought loved you and had your back. And you know you see some people that show their true colors way later in life and and it's really hurtful. But then it also makes you very angry because you know that you would never do that to them, or how could they do this to me. And it's a it's a real hard emotion to try to navigate through when, when you're angry and and hurting from the things that's happened to you. So it's a tough one, man.

Speaker 2: 3:49

But you know the definition of anger is emotional punishment that you give yourself for other people's bad behaviors. Right, you're punishing yourself by staying angry, by being angry, and they always say, like you know, forgiveness is for you by being angry, and they always say, like you know, forgiveness is for you, not for them. Well, it's, it's kind of true, because if you can learn to let it go, regardless of what has happened to you, your life would be, will be and will be a lot more peaceful. And because, regardless of how you feel, whatever it is that's happened to you or to anybody else, it's happened. You can't change it, so your feeling is not going to change anything on that person or whoever did you wrong or whatever the situation may be. So you have to be able to learn to let that go in order to move forward in your life and live a more peaceful life.

Speaker 2: 4:54

Because, like I said, I held on to anger towards a few people in my life for the hurts and wrongs and it really it ruined me for a long and I couldn't get over it. But in that you know you're not growing, you're stuck. It's a negative energy that you carry every day because of how you feel towards somebody else or something. That's happened, but you can't change it. There's nothing you or anybody can do to change that. So what you have to be able to learn to try to let that anger go.

Speaker 1: 5:33

Well, on that note too, man, it's. It's not your typical anger too it's. It's confusing. Confusing, I can't even speak right now. Confusing anger. You know what I mean. Because at one hand, you know, say, like someone that you care about or a loved one is gone, you know you're dealing with loss, you know you're not going to see this person, you know in denial person, you know and denial, but at the other hand, you're angry at them because they're gone and they did something stupid to make that happen. So you're confused back and forth, right, and a lot of times when people go through that stuff, it's hard because you're angry and that person isn't physically here. So how can you be angry with that person and tell them how you feel when that person's not here? So it's kind of like I don't know, man, it's a different type of anger, oh for sure, If that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 6:43

Oh, a million percent, it does right, like being angry and hurt from a friend stabbing you in the back or your girl cheating on you or whatever the case may be, compared to, like you said, losing a loved one or your best friend actually, which I've been through, you know, my high school friend committed suicide, you know, and you sit with this anger of how could they do that?

Speaker 2: 7:10

Why would you do that? You have children over this. This is what you do, and then you hold this anger towards them but they're not here. So how? So that's where you have to learn to be able to break that and not hold on to that because they are no longer here and there's nothing you can do. Learn to be able to break that and not hold on to that Because they are no longer here and there's nothing you can do. Or, as much as you wish that they were here, they're not coming back. So that's definitely, like you said, it's a whole different anger, because you're hurting and mad that they would leave you, whether, if it was, you know, a choice that they made on their own, you know, and then even if it was well, that's, you know, like, look at with you right, like for anyone that's listening and just tuning in and never heard the show is.

Speaker 2: 8:02

You know, my co--host, eric here, lost his fiance on Father's Day last year due to not so great choices, you know, and it's truly heartbreaking, especially when it's someone like the kind of person that she was. And you know, now that we've actually kind of brought this up a little bit, let me ask you a question, eric. You know, when you you know I've been through loss of family and friends, but this, for you, is a different loss that I've never had to go through. So I can't fully say Because of the relationship that you had with her. But you know, after that happened and your fiance passed away, you know, there's obviously like the denial, and Did you feel In your, I would say, and did you feel in your, I would say, in your healing journey and trying to get through what has happened, did you find yourself to be, you know, very angry?

Speaker 1: 9:22

It's kind of a kind of a tough question there for me because, um, you know the situation, um that everything was happening. I didn't really get a chance to fully grieve because of everything that was going on in the background. Um, did I feel angry at one point? Yeah, definitely, definitely, I was angry that this person that was supposed to be my person, my twin flame, as I put it picked what she picked instead of me and my daughter. So, yeah, I was definitely angry at one point. I just couldn't see how you would rather do that than mess up an amazing life that it was starting off to be. It was truly the white picket fence, everything like that. It was awesome. So, yeah, I definitely was angry, angry.

Speaker 1: 10:36

But I dealt with other people's grieving where they were angry at me. I was at home with my daughter when she passed away, and my daughter's best friend, she passed away at her mom's house, but yet I got blamed for her death, you know, and the decisions that she made. She's a big girl, she made those decisions, but yet I got blamed for those, you know. So that just shows you that other people were dealing with their grieving different way and everybody grieves differently. Don't get me wrong? There's no. I mean you could be at a funeral and like, oh my God, why is that person not grieving? They just lost their loved one. Well, who knows, they're grieving in a different way. Mentally, inside, definitely, that person is grieving. Maybe they're just trying to hold it together for everybody else in the family to be strong, or whatnot. I mean, everybody grieves differently. We're not the same.

Speaker 1: 11:28

So I mean these people were attacking me. Really, you know, they were angry, they needed someone to blame. So, yeah, they picked that guy. He's the outsider, right. So I mean, you saw all this stuff that was happening. You heard it, you've seen it. You know what? I mean it was people's grieves and how they grieve. Definitely Do I think it was right what they did? No, definitely not. But I understand people grieve, like I said, differently. So I mean, yeah, that's just how they affected them, which then stunted my growth of grieving, really because of the hurdles that I had to go through in order for me to keep pushing forward, because of what I had to go through.

Speaker 2: 12:23

Yeah, you weren't able to actually sit in it and feel your feelings, to try to figure out how to deal with that. Yeah, definitely, which makes it more difficult, right.

Speaker 1: 12:39

Yeah, I mean you came over and you saw me, man, I would just sit there, you know, and I didn't even know what to do. But I appreciate you coming there and you saw me, man, I would just sit there and I didn't even know what to do, but I appreciate you coming there and just sitting quiet with me, because I was so in my head, I mean, even though we weren't talking, I mean like there was so much stuff going on in my head it was flooded, right obviously, and it was just trying to compartment everything, you know, trying to be like okay. Well, I have to put my grieving on hold right now because the next day after my girl dies, my fiance dies. Their family told me that I had two months to move out of their house.

Speaker 2: 13:20

Yeah, before the funeral even.

Speaker 1: 13:23

Yeah, before the funeral yeah, that's a tough one man.

Speaker 2: 13:26

It was crazy even, yeah, before the funeral.

Speaker 1: 13:28

That's a tough one man. It was crazy man. It was crazy dude. The night that she passed away they were already looking for caskets To buy caskets. They never did. She actually got cremated, but they were looking to buy caskets. Why not let her rest, you know? So I mean, like they told me I had two months to move. The next day, literally the next day, I went to her mom's house. They said, yeah, you have too much to move to move out of the house. So, yeah, I really I had to put that shit on hold. I had to put grieving on hold and deal with what I needed to do to move forward, because I need a place. I need a place to lay my head, I need a place safe for my daughter.

Speaker 1: 14:17

It was kind of rough man, to be honest with you. I didn't have a chance to sit back and really feel all the emotions at that time. Did it hit me after a little bit? Yeah, I mean, it comes in waves, right, and that's what grief is. Right, it comes in waves, but even now I'm still go through a little bit of it. Am I over her death? I wouldn't say that anybody's really over anybody's death, but I'm content of understanding what happened. I will never see her again and I understand that and that's the reality of it, right, that's science, so I understand that. But I mean it just comes in waves and it will for probably the rest of my life, because she was a beacon in my life.

Speaker 2: 15:10

You know, she was a pillar to my daughter yeah I mean it was hard to anyone who loses any family or wives and husbands and children. It's, it's the the worst thing to happen to you on the planet. Basically, when you lose the people that you love, it changes you forever. Anyone that.

Speaker 1: 15:39

I'm not the same person. I'll tell you this. I am not the same person I was when I was with her. I feel like a piece of me is gone, you know, and I mean she was something special. Definitely she was. This chick was an angel, she was, I mean, and I mean it. So I mean it's, it's just that's another thing is like, will I ever find someone like that?

Speaker 2: 16:08

you know, I mean, and that's just even a different type of of journey, you know well, I mean you don't want to look too far ahead on when it comes to that.

Speaker 1: 16:16

I mean no, I'm talking about anger and stuff. You know, like you left me, so like now, like getting kind of angry like you, you just messed everything up. You know, will I ever find someone again? You know like it just, it's just like a snowball. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2: 16:31

yeah, it's just like a snowball especially when someone makes, you know, the wrong choices and, you know, leaves the ones that they love and just like people that are. You know the families and loved ones that are dealing with you know whoever that they're close to with addiction and alcoholism and all these other things is. You know, for example, my son. He's almost 14 now in a couple weeks and for the last four years his mom's been living on the street in a tent because her and her boyfriend decided to make poor choices. And the anger that I held for a long, long time to look at my son and see the hurt. You know my son. He was born with club feet and two years ago he had to have double leg surgery three, two and a half years anyways and I was there every day, stayed beside him in his bed, and his mom didn't even come to see him. And it's truly sad because before she took that downhill turn with her boyfriend, she was an amazing mom. She was almost annoying because every time I had him I'm like can I talk to him again? Can I talk to him? I miss him and I wish I could have that back. But the anger that I held, you know, seeing him laying in a hospital bed with full-legged casts on and the only person that came to see him or was there was me. And my dad obviously came and he lives out of town, but he was there and he made the trip. But you know, like his mother and I don't think his mother even seen him for three weeks after and it was truly heartbreaking.

Speaker 2: 18:18

But at that moment I was mad, you know, I was so angry and I and I held onto that for a long time. I'm like how could you do this to your son? How could you give up? And when she lost my son, she was also pregnant at that time with her boyfriend's kid and as soon as that baby was born, her mom got custody of the baby. So grandma now has custody Of her other kid and I just these poor kids, man, and I just look and I'm just like how the fuck can you do this to your kids? Anybody, anybody, and the anger that these families hold Watching their loved ones Throw their lives away, the hurt and the anger, man.

Speaker 2: 19:09

But I came to the realization and I held on to this and it killed me for a long time. It broke me, anxiety. Every day I'm overworking myself trying to make up for her downfall. And just I was burying myself into the ground and but I came to the realization is that it doesn't matter how I feel or what I do, if she doesn't want to change, she's not going to change. If she's not going to be there for my son and her other kid, she's not going to be there. She might not be acting like it, but she's a grown adult and if that's the choices that she makes, then that's a choice that she makes and there's nothing I can do about that.

Speaker 2: 19:54

And I held on to that for a long time, like a couple years, and then I got to the point I'm like you know what?

Speaker 2: 20:00

I can't feel like this anymore and I can't try to take on something I have no control over.

Speaker 2: 20:11

And when I started to learn in my own therapy to let that go and, as anyone listening is, regardless of what has happened to you, you have to learn to let it go, no matter how traumatizing it is to you, no matter the pain and suffering that you had to go through.

Speaker 2: 20:31

I don't wish it on anybody, but regardless, it's happened and in order to move forward in your life, the best that you can is you have to learn to let that go and when I started to learn to realize that I had no control over what my kid's mom does, and just do the best that I can as a father.

Speaker 2: 20:56

That's all I can do and it's heartbreaking sometimes and the things that I see and it breaks my heart, but there's nothing I can do about it. So I can't hold on to that anymore. So all I can do is be the best dad possible, be there for my son and try to raise him the best that I can, because his mom is no longer in the picture. She's and it's truly sad to say, because we were friends and she was a good mom before this and I don't wish bad on her because it's my son's mother, but I'm waiting every day. She's so bad that I'm waiting every day to get that phone call that she's gone, because she's literally sleeping in a tent and she's 70 pounds, lost her teeth, and she used to be a beautiful girl.

Speaker 1: 21:49

And the diseases you don't even know. You know what I mean and everything they're doing. Whatever sharing things, man, it's a dangerous game.

Speaker 2: 21:59

Not only that you're playing with the chemicals, but then also you don't know what other people got around you right, but that anger that I held man, you man, it killed me. But, like I said once I started going therapy and whatever it is you guys are going through, it doesn't matter is you have to learn to let it go, because now I have way less anxiety. I don't let that be the first thought every morning and the last thought before I go to sleep and I don't let it take over my days anymore, because I got to do the best that I can for my son. Now that's all I can do, you know, and with what happened with you, even is that happened and you can't change that. You wish you could. I wish my son's mom was around. You wish that your fiance was still here.

Speaker 2: 22:58

But this is life and these things happen, whether it's people's poor choices or not. You know, sometimes we lose people and things happen that is completely out of your control and it's truly heartbreaking and sad Innocent people and bad accidents and whatever it is. But we can't do anything in the past. It doesn't matter what it is, it's in the past. There's nothing any of us can do about any situation. We play the stories in our head and I wish I said that and I wish I didn't leave that day and I wish I picked up the phone and told him I loved him before I left the house. And we hold on to this guilt and this, all these things that happened to us, and I wish I didn't live with my stepfather because he did this to me and you and we do this. You know we're we're humans and these are painful, traumatic events and things that happened to us, but it's in the past and there's nothing any of us can do anything about. So, like when I said is you know forgiveness is for you, not for them, or whatever, is that that said, is you know forgiveness is for you, not for them, or whatever? Is that that part of that is learning to let go and you have to, because if you hold on to that and we're talking about anger is man?

Speaker 2: 24:17

I know a lot of people that are sitting in that anger man for 10 plus years and their life and because of that, that's what you're putting out to the universe, that's the energy you're putting out. That's what trick. That's the energy you're putting out. That's what trickles into your job. You're never happy, you're miserable. You know you're not. You don't have clarity in your mind to be present. Like we've talked about this, a lot is. You don't have that clarity to be present in the day that you're in. You know, if you're angry all the time for one, no one's going to want to be around you. No one's going to want to date you. You know. And if you're angry all the time, your kid if you have kids they're going to feel it, they're going to see it. Your relationships will fail you know, and then anger.

Speaker 1: 25:12

Yeah, that was me man, that was me bro, you know what I mean From God like as a kid, you know, after my dad left, definitely, and I just had this anger. You know, I didn't get rid of the anger until maybe mid to late 20s. I just was mad angry. All the time I had a violent, very violent anger issues. I was punching holes in my wall, my door. I went through like six doors, man, my mom got tired of buying doors that she got a piece of plywood and she screwed it to the door and I would punch that shit.

Speaker 1: 25:59

You know it was, it was crazy, it was just full of anger and as a kid I never really dealt with it. You know, I went to I've been in and out of counseling my entire life but I just I wasn't comprehending, or whatever comprehending, what they were trying to teach me. It would just go in one ear and come out the other. Because I'm a little punk man. I, straight up, I was a little punk. I don't want to hear what some stranger's telling me. I'm not crazy, but at the end of the day I was, I was messed up mentally in my head, you know, and I just, I was a firecracker, I was just ready to go. Any small little thing, you know, and I would explode.

Speaker 1: 26:41

But I mean, as time goes on, you actually learn how to deal with it. I make well, I hope I make smart choices. You know, I think before I lash out with my tongue. Definitely, you know. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm only human. I mean sometimes, yeah, I will lash out, especially when driving. You know what I mean. It's always, I don't know why, but it's always I don't know why, but it's always driving that makes us the angriest. Where are we going? We're in a, we're in a rush to go, nowhere, you know, really, at the end of the day, but I mean angry, angry is a hard one, man, like it's, it's what is it? The second, second emotion, or second stage, or motion, or something it's called motion, or second stage or motion, or something it's called.

Speaker 1: 27:33

And I mean, you know, you lose a loved one, you start getting angry and then you're gonna do stupid things and then you're gonna regret it later. You know, or my, my friend, died. I'm gonna go out and get hammered, I'm so, so mad. And then you go get drunk and then you act belligerent and start fights, you know. Next thing, you know, you're waking up in the jail cell with, like a broken collarbone, you know. So it's like when you start feeling these.

Speaker 1: 27:58

I mean, deal with it in a healthy way. Go in your car, scream as loud as you can, you know. Scream into a pillow, punch a pillow, write it down. Write how you're feeling. You know. Scream into a pillow, punch a pillow, write it down. Write how you're feeling. You know, don't go out and take it out on someone, cause at the end of the day you're just going to end up regretting it. You know you're going to hurt someone or hurt yourself or jeopardize, like, your future. Yeah Well, and that's what you just got to deal with these things, healthy and it's okay, it's ready to cut, just real quick. It's okay to feel anger, it's okay to feel these things. We're not saying that it's not okay. It's definitely okay to feel these, but, like joey always says, man, it's. It's not okay to sit in it forever. You, you know, feel it and then move on. You got three more grief stages to go through, so buckle up right, don't just sit in that one. You got to get through it all.

Speaker 2: 28:58

Well for sure you got to be able to hit that head on and deal with that. Because if you are angry all the time like most people know that they're angry all the time they know that they're angry all the time because they're not happy. If you were happy, you wouldn't be so angry all the time. There's something going on. You know, and like I mentioned this a long time ago about this book I read, and you know, when you see these people act crazy and angry and smash things and punch walls, and the first thing that everyone says when they look at these people is like what the fuck is wrong with that guy? Right, but nobody asked the question. And in this book and it makes a lot of sense, but nobody will ask that but it's what happened to him. Why is he acting like that? Why is she acting like that? Why are they so acting like that? Why are they so angry? And if they're angry all the time, if you're angry all the time, that means there's something going on inside that you haven't fixed. There's something going on that you haven't Talked about or you haven't Seeked help To deal with it and you're holding on to it and it just, and you're just letting it all out in the wrong way. And then that's when you start doing stupid things and your anger comes out and nobody wants to hang around with you anymore. Then you become more miserable than your wife left you and your girlfriend left you because you're not a happy person and you're breaking things or whatever. Everyone acts out different when they're angry. Some people are able to hold it inside, you know, screaming in the car and into your pillow, and some people lash out on other people with abuse and you're trash your house, whatever. But that is a serious indication that there's something going on deep inside that you really need to fix, you know, and there's holding on to anger that you really need to tackle. And why someone's angry all the time. And then, like you said, being angry is normal. That's an emotion Like you get. Like you said, being angry is normal. That's an emotion Like you get angry. You know you get angry. You know it's not severe, but you get angry because your kids aren't listening and they're not cleaning up their room. Or you get angry because a guy cut you off or rear-ended you and now your day's screwed for the next two hours and you're late to work. Like these are normal stages of things in life. But you know you're angry, you get over it, you move on Right. But those big things and someone that holds onto these because of things that's happened to them in the past is something that you really need to tackle and deal with.

Speaker 2: 31:55

But that also, I think, with the people that are angry all the time, like that is the first stage and second stage of grief is hand in hand with them, because they're still in denial. They're still in denial, they're angry, they don't want to admit, because they're in denial, that they have problems. They have issues and they don't want to talk about it because they don't believe that they have problems. So that denial and anger they're, they're sitting on both of them. They haven't even got through the denial yet because now they're in the angry stage without even getting through the denial stage. Now they have, now they have both right. So they're even more angry and that's why they're angry all the time and that's why they're not dealing with their shit, because they're still in denial.

Speaker 2: 32:36

So how can you move forward to heal yourself if you don't think you have a problem? You don't want to talk about shit, you say you're fine, but you're not just like a lot of people do, and they just go to work and overwork and bury themselves in the bar, gambling and whatever it is that they do because they don't want to talk. Well, they don't want to deal with it because they're in denial and they don't want to admit it. Or, as a man, whatever it may be, even from their childhood, they don't want to tell somebody that this happened to me when I was a kid or whatever it might be. Or I'm struggling financially, I don't want to tell my wife, and then it's killing them.

Speaker 2: 33:16

But they're into now, but now they're angry at themselves because they don't know how to fix it, they don't know how to get out of it. So it's either they're angry because of what's happened to them or they're angry at themselves because life is not going the way they thought it would at that moment. Because I was like that too, man, I was just getting so upset at myself because, you know, we all want these certain things, but then, when it doesn't happen, we have these expectations and then you just get so pissed off Like I had a fucking breakdown a couple weeks ago, man. I was so mad that everything, all the positive things that I was doing. I was just hitting wall after wall after wall and I broke and I literally like I haven't felt like that in a long time. But it's all the different levels of it, of course we're only human, though, but that's the big one, man.

Speaker 2: 34:08

If you're angry all the time and you know, then you're miserable all the time. Why do you want to be like that? And that's the whole reason. What, yeah?

Speaker 1: 34:19

yeah, I think it's more work to be miserable, you know I mean it's more, it's more challenging, more work to put in to be miserable.

Speaker 2: 34:27

Back and when I was mad and upset and angry and and miserable man, my days were fucking shit. Every day was shit. I wasn't present in the day. You know I'm here, but my head's not, because I'm just sitting in anger the whole time and mad, mad at myself, mad at the world. I used to be like fuck this. And that's where the victim mentality used to come in.

Speaker 2: 34:52

And a lot of people, most people, still have that, because they're in denial, they're blaming everybody else. They don't want to look in the mirror, they don't want to take accountability. But those are the people that are just going to exist in life. They're not going to live. They're not going to live, you're existing. You know what I mean. Why do you want to live like that?

Speaker 2: 35:12

When you get to a point where you wake up one day and you're like man, I don't want to feel like this anymore. Just like me, just like you, it's like a lot of people. That's when your life will start to change, is when you learn to let go. Stop being angry all the time, accept it, talk about it, deal with it, because once you start to learn to let that go, whatever it is that you're holding on to that just makes you mad every day and lash out on the people that didn't do nothing to you, and you're taking it out on your kids and your wife and your mom and your brothers and sisters and friends. Man, you guys really need to just reach out, man, and it takes a bigger man to admit that they have issues, you know, but most people don't change like we've talked about too, until the people hit the rock bottom. Either either the person will get even worse or that's when there'll be like when they lose their wife, they take the kids away. You know they're getting a divorce, they lost their job. Well, now you feel like you have nothing, okay, well, which way do you take now? You know we've all made mistakes, we've all fucked up, we've all been there.

Speaker 2: 36:34

But when you're in that, whether it was your fault or not, you only have two ways you can go. You want to go and feel sorry for yourself and play the victim and point your fingers why your wife left you and you got fired, or life's not going the way you want it to. Or do you look in the mirror and be like that was my fault? How do I fix that so that doesn't happen again. How do I, how, how do I be better so that doesn't happen again? How do I be better so I can move forward in my life and not have to deal with and go through any of that again is accountability. But most people can't even look themselves in the mirror and take accountability Because majority of the time it's their own fault. It is you are because you are where you are in your life, because of you, not because of what's happened to you. That's true.

Speaker 1: 37:37

Yeah, definitely, definitely, man, go ahead, man. There's another oh sorry, go ahead, I didn't mean to. Well, I just. There's also another type of grief, um, and it's grieving someone that's alive, that is on their way, you know, to passing or close to it, you know. I mean, tell you the truth, my, my um counselor, um, made me aware of this two sessions ago that I'm in the middle of this and I was actually listening when I was doing a little bit more research on the five stages of grief, that, uh, they were talking about this and I think it's a good point to bring up because, I mean, a lot of people are going through this or will go through this or have gone through.

Speaker 1: 38:28

This is, for example, my situation my mom, you know she's not doing good. She was in the hospital and we don't fully know what's going on right now, because she did her nuclear test, she got cancer in the throat, but then they want to do another CT scan because they found something else. So they're not giving us full information. But as soon as you hear like cancer in someone, you're like, oh my God, they're going to die right. So automatically your brain starts going into like forward, grieving while they're still alive, into, like, forward grieving while they're still alive and it's. It's actually very, very shitty, because now, instead of your mind focusing on you know, your loved one that is going through, say, they got stage four terminal cancer but they're still alive right now with you. Now your mind is focused on death. Oh, are they going to be okay? You know, like we got to do all this and all this, or like you're thinking ahead of the game, when really you should be present in the moment with that person, because you don't know when that time is ending. So a lot of people you know that have family members or friends, you know, on their way out they don't realize that they're actually grieving in these moments.

Speaker 1: 39:58

And it's another way of grieving is you're grieving the person that's still alive, that's soon to be gone, which is kind of crazy, to be honest with you, because when you think grieving, you think that person is gone, but with in your mind it's already. You know you've tricked yourself that this is happening 100. And then, like, when we go into our next episode, which is um bargaining, then you start bargaining in your mind oh, maybe there's a way I could save them. You try to look for the best doctors you know, or just one hope. Oh, you know, this person said we had stage four cancer. This doctor said we had stage four cancer. Maybe if we go talk to this one and he says that we don't have stage four cancer, then there's hope. You know, instead of like worrying about all that and the hope and everything be in the moment with this person, I mean, yes, you know, work out, see what you can do, but don't get ahead of yourself definitely, because you're just going to drive yourself crazy.

Speaker 2: 41:08

Well, you have to when people are, you know, especially your loved ones that are in the position that your mom is, and you know I wish you and your mother nothing but the best man and I really hope she's okay and you know she's around as long as possible. Yeah, but no, I understand that she's around as long as possible, but no, I understand that, that grieving process when you know they're not going to make it no matter what, but they're still here and it's hard because you want to do everything you can and you know you ask whoever it is that you know whether it's a God or spiritual or nobody is. You know why is this happening? What can I do? You know you do anything to make them better if you could, and the reality is, in certain cases, like it's going to happen, whether you like it or not. So how do you deal with that? How do you, you know, get through that? You know.

Speaker 2: 42:22

I remember, you know, a few years ago, my three-year-old nephew. You know my sister took him to the hospital and they said he had a viral infection and he was really sick and they sent him home. Two days later he got even more sick and brought him back no-transcript and he's like well, we took him to that hospital and they rushed him into the emergency room because they found a tumor on his brain. It wasn't a viral infection and that other hospital completely missed it. And I remember that day as that nurse from that hospital I've never seen that before phoned the other hospital, screaming on the phone for us how stupid they were to miss this.

Speaker 2: 43:14

But again, that came out of nowhere and all of a sudden, boom. My little three-year-old nephew's got a tumor and he was brought into the hospital. Now he ended up staying in Children's Hospital for quite a few months, you know, and at one point they thought that he was going to make it, you know, which is a positive, and you know my sister was on welfare at that time and you know we threw fundraisers and tried to save money in case he needed extra things that weren't covered and wheelchairs, and that's what they thought he wouldn't be able to walk, or brain damage or all those kind of things. Right and then.

Speaker 2: 43:54

But over time he got worse and then we got told that he wasn't going to make it and to see not only see, but to hear that a three-year, that a three-year-old child, is going to die and there's nothing you can do about it. It is probably one of the hardest things you know to have to deal with to have to hear, especially if it's your own children and my heart goes out to anyone who's lost a child, you know, and this was my little nephew and to show up every day and look at someone or look at him in your mind, knowing that today could be your last day or their last day, because it is coming and there's nothing you can do about it. You just don't know when. And sure enough we all got the phone call saying that my nephew's not going to make it through the night. So you guys better rush down here when you can to say your goodbyes.

Speaker 2: 45:03

And the guy that my sister dated at the time the baby's dad, probably one of the biggest losers on the planet. Till this day he wouldn't let anybody in to see him and say goodbye because he was just a piece of shit and the family hated him. He was three years old. So the anger.

Speaker 1: 45:24

How old was your nephew?

Speaker 2: 45:26

And in that grieving process when it comes to the anger and in that grieving process with when it comes to the anger. You know, I was never really a religious person growing up. My dad went to church a lot. I went to church with my dad, you know, as a kid I went to some church camps and, you know, when I was young so I wasn't huge I believed in God then but the anger that I had after he died, it wasn't just thinking that it was God's fault, but in general is how can anybody bury a child when it's supposed to be them burying us? You know, three years old and you're watching him die us. You know, three years old and you're watching him die.

Speaker 2: 46:10

And the anger that I held for the situation, you know, and that's that was the day that I stopped believing in God, even though I wasn't a big religious person, but I believed in it. You know what I mean, because to me it's no child should ever die, especially from, from sickness or ever. No child should die, you know. But in the world that we live in, things happen, with accidents and this and that and they gotta live really heartbreaking yeah you know, no child should sit up in children's hospital for six months and die at three years old.

Speaker 2: 46:55

So the anger that I held at the situation was a really hard one to let go To watch that little boy or any child, and that doesn't matter. So, yeah, it's a different level, like you said, of the grieving process looking at somebody, knowing that they're they're going to go and there's nothing we can do about it and the things that you know. We, any one of us out there, would do anything to keep the loved ones around, it turned back time to not let them get into the car that day, to not be at the bar that night, to not get sick. We, we, we would all do it with a push of a button, hands down. But this is the yeah, but this is the time machine we go back and do it.

Speaker 2: 48:01

You know what I mean regardless of how traumatic and heartbreaking and painful things that things happen to us in our lives is, we're still here and we still have people that count on us. We still have people that love us. We have, there's people that love you. Your children love you, you know, and so you have to be able to let go and accept, and nobody, especially when it comes to death, and especially of a three-year-old you don't accept that ever, but it's the reality, and once you can at least accept it, you will never forget it, just like you with your fiance man. That's a piece of you gone, but it's also a piece of you that will stay with you forever as well. You lost a piece, but you also gained a bigger piece, in a sense.

Speaker 1: 49:03

you know yeah, definitely, definitely well, and I learned, I learned my lesson from her, and the lesson that she taught me was true love. You know what I mean and that's what we speak about. All the time is as shitty and as dark and as hard as whatever you're going through at the time. There's a lesson in it, you know, and I thought my whole life I knew what love was, but I didn't. I'll tell you that I didn't until I met Jules, and now I know what true love is, and she made me want to feel what, what I mean that again, you know, I mean to like, have that, and I won't know when I when I look back for anything less to be honest with you know, when my nephew passed, you know, because of that, you know, for years me and my father would go on Christmas Eve every year and we'd buy presents for all the kids.

Speaker 2: 50:04

My son, or my nephew, sorry stayed in, obviously, the cancer ward for months and the way that he was treated was amazing the nurses, the doctors, the can. You know, the nhl hockey team came and visited him at one point he was on the tv and all this shit and it was all amazing stuff, you know. But you know, because of all that that that happened, we took that me and my father and we went to Children's Hospital every Christmas Eve, presents, and you know, we went every Christmas Eve night and we brought all these presents to all the kids in the cancer ward that couldn't go home for Christmas, you know, and to give to the parents and to give to these children that might not make it past Christmas, you know. So to be able to take from that a bit of a positive. And the positive was to put a smile on these children's faces, at least for a minute, those and those parents faces, because, man, to see any child like that or any child hurt, sick, anything is just. It's truly heartbreaking, you know so. Because of that, though, we were able to, you know, shine a little light on Some of these children that were sick, that couldn't go home for Christmas, and we did that for quite a few years, and then my dad moved away.

Speaker 2: 51:40

But so you know, regardless, like Eric said, whatever it is that you guys are Dealing with, whatever you guys are struggling with, is, even in that Pain or when you're going through that pain and that hurt, you'll never find the positive at that moment, or you'll never try to look for the positive, because you're so messed up and so you're broken, you can't possibly register that there's something positive going to come out of what has just happened to you, because it's that devastating, that hurtful, whatever it is, but that's normal, because of whatever the traumatic experience or the pain that is that has happened to you, yeah, you're going to feel that way. We're human beings. Every single one of us is going to be hurt, broken, alone, feel alone, whatever it is, in those times of, you know, painful situations, and you won't see it in the moment, but there will be and I promise you there will be positives that do come out of it Because, no matter what's happened to you, like like again, that was the past and there's nothing you can do to change it. All you can do is change what's to go forward and which way you're going to go forward.

Speaker 2: 53:05

But if you look back, even anyone listening right now stop for five minutes after and just sit back and think of some lot of shit that you guys have been through, and then you, and when you're at a more clear mind, and then you look forward and be like well, if that didn't happen, I wouldn't have done this and if that didn't happen, I wouldn't be here. And if I didn't, if that didn't happen, I would have met this person who is now my wife and now I have these children because I met this wife. Because of that, whatever it is, that's how it works. So there are positives in everything that happens.

Speaker 2: 53:45

There's a positive in every negative, but in the negative and when you're feeling these emotions and struggling the way that some emotions and struggling the way that some people are in the way that we did is, again, you have only two ways you can go is tackle the problems at hand, face them, turn around and face those demons, figure it out. Stop being so angry all the time. You know, and anything that you can control, that you need to change and you know you need to change. Change it Now, you know. Don't take the other path and feel sorry for yourself and play victim, because you're going to live in that victim mentality the rest of your life and again you're just going to be existing, you're not living and nobody's going to want to hang out with you, nobody's going to want to date you or marry you. Your kids probably won't even want to come to dad's house anymore because you're just miserable and angry all the time. And why do you want to live like that? Why does anybody? So, if you have control out of all these little things that are bothering you and you do have control over it, change it, fix it, work on it.

Speaker 2: 54:55

You know and actually I just read this the other day that really struck something with me is we get so on things that we're trying to do, whether it's positive or whatever it is. We get so focused on the target and I'm super guilty for this, you know, and we all want it all to be done or we want this by tomorrow. Everyone wants it right away, right? You know you're so focused on the target, even if you set a goal which I've done for, say, next month, I want to have this done and this done, and then you get there and you're not even close and we just keep getting down on ourselves and angry. But when we stop focusing on the target and start focusing in on our own actions and the process right. So if there's things in your life right now that is that you have control over that is really affecting your life in a negative way and you know it is focus on your actions and the process of eliminating them one by one. Stop looking at the target of I want all of it to go away, because it's not going to work like that. So break it down. Figure out what is it like If you wake up every day and there's something that you think about and it weighs on you every day and you know you can fix it, even if it's financially, if you can change it.

Speaker 2: 56:18

But it costs a lot of money to change. Well, then you have to put in the work to start saving, to get that fixed, because that is killing you, is draining you every day. It bothers you and we're like, well, I only make this much and I can only save $20 a month. Okay, so maybe it takes you a year to get to it. Well, would you rather do it in a year? Would you rather never do it? Right, it's what? What's important to you? What are you going to put the effort in to change? What do you you know?

Speaker 2: 56:46

But again, people are just so stuck in this victim mentality and poor me and blame me and it's his fault and her fault that they're not even bothering to make the changes, except they just point fingers and then they feel a little bit better about themselves because they're telling themselves that it's their fault, but they won't even look in the mirror when it's your fault well, there's that, um, he's a, he's a trainer, um, fitness trainer, and he literally, like, will call up I forget his name and he'll call up his um, his people, he's training, and it'll be like, either show up or give up.

Speaker 1: 57:36

Those are the only two options show up or give up. You know you have to, you have no other option. And who the fuck wants to give up? You know what I mean. Show up and be better, grow. I mean I get it, it sucks, but at one point, yeah, okay, I get it, it sucks, but at one point, yeah okay, I did want to give up, but then I saw the bright side of everything. And you just got to find that bright side, man. You know, let that hit that light switch, bring in the light and keep on kicking on. Man, that's what's important. This world keeps on moving. Like I said many times and you'll hear it again, the world's moving forward. You got to roll with the times or you're going to get left behind and lost. You know, you just got to keep on pushing forward, man, no matter what, get up, wipe the dust off and move forward.

Speaker 2: 58:38

But, um, I think that's pretty close to uh no, I think we've nailed it on the head tonight and anchor unless you got anything else to throw in.

Speaker 1: 58:55

Yeah, man, we talked about a bunch of different things. You know Grief going through it while you lost someone. Grief as in relationships losing or anything like that. Also, grief as in you know, the person is still alive and you're grieving them while they're still alive. So I think we touched on some good points there. So hopefully, if you're listening to this, you know we resonated some way with you. You know that's what we're trying to do here. Just want to, you know, show that you're not alone At the end of the day. This is why we do this podcast to show that you know you're not alone At the end of the day. This is why we do this podcast to show that you're not alone, that other people, especially men, are hurting out there and that we can come together as a community. That's what we're trying to build here. Like we said before, we're not doctors, we're not shrinks, psychs, quacks, whatever you want to call them.

Speaker 1: 59:57

We're just two guys talking shit and wanting to change the world, one day at a time and one person at a time.

Speaker 2: 1:00:05

Don't be afraid to reach out.

Speaker 2: 1:00:07

Hit us up at rawmindspodcast at gmailcom. You can hit us up on the TikTok rawmindspodcast. Shoot us a message, leave your number. If you guys are feel alone, you're just all around not doing well, that's what we're here for and we will answer you pretty much almost immediately, whether it's me or Eric or both of us. You know anything you guys can do or anything that we can do to help you. That's why we're doing what we do.

Speaker 2: 1:00:44

You know and myself and Eric if you're just listening for the first time as we've lived our entire lives in pain, anxiety, trauma, abuse, suicide attempts you name it and for us to sit here now after going through all that is the reason why we're doing this is to help the men especially that's feeling that way and try to help them overcome that with. You know, like eric said, we ain't doctors, but man, we lived it more than most people you probably ever met. So don't be afraid to reach out. You know we drop episodes every friday on every platform you can think of. Yeah, buddy, and if you don't know us yet, we are Raw Minds, the first podcast on men's mental health, and as always, eric man, it's a pleasure to come on here. Every week we're hitting up the new miniseries. Right now five part on grief in the five stages. Next week will be Stage number three. So Tune in, tune in, check us out Raw Minds, and if you can't find good people, be good people.

Speaker 1: 1:02:19

Thank you, joey. Thank you again. Always a pleasure. Like we touched on before, I mean you know, grief could be a circle, it's not just a straight line where it's denial, anger and so on. I mean you could hit depression, anger, denial.

Speaker 1: 1:02:44

You know it doesn't work like that for everyone. So don't think that. You know what we're saying is exactly. Everybody's different and it's okay, like we said, it's okay to be angry, it's okay to feel all these feelings. You have to go through these stages In order to Come out. I wouldn't say better, but To come out okay. I guess. I mean because at the end of the day it sucks, but I mean it's okay to go through these and you have to go through them. You can't go around it, you can't hide from it, you can't run away from it, because eventually it's just going to catch up on you. So anyways, yeah, just reach out to us if you want to us to touch on something, if you're interested in a topic or anything like that, let us know and we'll be happy to hit that up as well. Well, on that note seems like I'm just running off here be good or be good at it.