This week's episode celebrates the late, great actor Donald Sutherland.
Apologies to all the Bella Efstratis superfans; Bella is absent this week. However, we are joined by the spectacular PGA producer, Gimme Three producer, and wife of host Nicholas Ybarra: Sonja Mereu.
Nick & Sonja discuss three of Donald Sutherland's prominent performances: the 1973 Horror classic Don't Look Now, the biting satire M*A*S*H*, and the emotionally rich Six Degrees Of Separation.
Please let us know what your favorite Donald Sutherland performance is!
Sign up for our Patreon for exclusive Bonus Content.
Follow the podcast on Instagram @gimmethreepodcast
You can keep up with Bella on Instagram @portraitofacinephile or Letterboxd
You can keep up with Nick: on Instagram @nicholasybarra, on Twitter (X) @nicholaspybarra, or on Letterboxd
Shout out to contributor and producer Sonja Mereu. A special thanks to Anselm Kennedy for creating Gimme Three's theme music. And another special thanks to Zoe Baumann for creating our exceptional cover art.
This week's episode celebrates the late, great actor Donald Sutherland.
Apologies to all the Bella Efstratis superfans; Bella is absent this week. However, we are joined by the spectacular PGA producer, Gimme Three producer, and wife of host Nicholas Ybarra: Sonja Mereu.
Nick & Sonja discuss three of Donald Sutherland's prominent performances: the 1973 Horror classic Don't Look Now, the biting satire M*A*S*H*, and the emotionally rich Six Degrees Of Separation.
Please let us know what your favorite Donald Sutherland performance is!
Sign up for our Patreon for exclusive Bonus Content.
Follow the podcast on Instagram @gimmethreepodcast
You can keep up with Bella on Instagram @portraitofacinephile or Letterboxd
You can keep up with Nick: on Instagram @nicholasybarra, on Twitter (X) @nicholaspybarra, or on Letterboxd
Shout out to contributor and producer Sonja Mereu. A special thanks to Anselm Kennedy for creating Gimme Three's theme music. And another special thanks to Zoe Baumann for creating our exceptional cover art.
From the beautiful city of Los Angeles, california, we bring you the Gimme 3 Podcast. Hello and welcome cinephiles, cinema lovers, movie appreciators, friends and family to the Gimme Three podcast, a series for cinephiles, the show where we pick three films based on one theme. I'm your host, nicholas Ibarra. Sad to report that our esteemed co-host, bella F Stratus has the week off, but she is making big moves. Stratus has the week off, but she is making big moves. She is in fact moving this weekend, so she needed some time away to get her new place situated and whatnot. But I'm very happy to report that this week I am joined by the one, the only Gimme Three producer, pga producer and my wife, one Minute Maru, herself Sonia Maru.
Speaker 2:I guess it's not so bad to have that nickname if you're a woman, but I wouldn't go around calling me that too much.
Speaker 1:What is going on, Sonia?
Speaker 2:Not much. I'm excited to talk for a couple more than one minute today and, yeah, I'm just pleased to be on the show.
Speaker 1:Yes, I appreciate you stepping up, stepping up, and this theme was picked by you and you know, happy to have you on this special episode. This theme was picked by you and you know, happy to have you on this special episode. And we are going to be celebrating the life and the work of a damn fine actor, donald Sutherland, and I just want to also. We're honoring Donald Sutherland. I also want to give a shout out to Bill Cobbs, who we also lost in the last few days here, so we didn't have time to prep an episode for him, but another great character actor that we lost recently, two greats gone on to greener pastures. But today we are exploring the incredible work of Donald Sutherland's career. And before we get into the films, sonia, I was curious do you remember A, either your first Sutherland movie, or B? If you don't remember your first Sutherland movie, what's the movie for you personally? Not what the grand world thinks of when they think of Sutherland. When you think of Donald Sutherland, what movie do you cling to?
Speaker 2:Well, you know what I'm going to answer both those questions actually.
Speaker 1:Extra credit.
Speaker 2:Answer. The movie that I will always associate with him first is Don't Look Now, which I had been wanting to rewatch for a long time and, spoiler alert, we get to talk about it today. Yes, that's what I'll always think of him first, because that movie stayed with me like in a deep, dark place since I saw it in high school. But the first movie that I saw with him probably Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:Um, I mean, I don't think I knew who he was and obviously he's not the uh, the star of the movie or the one that, like a 10 year old girl, would be the most interested in.
Speaker 1:Right, you're like get this old guy out of here. Give me some more Luke Perry.
Speaker 2:But I did remember the character and even his name. So that says something about, about um donald for sure, yeah, but yeah he's, I'm sorry he's no. Luke perry, yeah, and then I actually realized that he is a voice on one of my favorite episode of the Simpsons. Ah.
Speaker 1:Which episode is that?
Speaker 2:It's Lisa the Iconoclast, which is season 7, episode 16. He plays the guy who's the Jebediah Springfield expert, who Lisa exposes that Jebediah Springfield was really like a pirate with a silver tongue, who fought. George Washington.
Speaker 1:Right, that's a great episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, super great classic episode. Season seven might be the best episode of the Simpsons. They were just firing on all the cylinders and definitely turned up to 11 on that season. Yeah, so what I was like reading about his life and his career, I came across that and I was like, oh, that's really cool. I love that character.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. That's great. Yeah, I think like you, you know, I kind of growing up in the nineties I think I was privy to his later career work. I didn't see Don't Look Now until last week. So I was introduced to Mr Sutherland as a great supporting character because he was doing a lot of supporting roles in the 90s, Not the leading man, so A Time to Kill Fallen Instinct. Those were like my introductions to Donald Sutherland. You ever seen Instinct?
Speaker 2:I don't think so.
Speaker 1:It's got Cuba Gooding Jr and Anthony Hopkins. I haven't seen it in years. I wonder if that holds up, but I used to love that movie.
Speaker 2:I've definitely seen Fallen, but now I don't remember who he plays in Fallen In a lot of these movies he must be like a cop or something, yeah he was like the captain or like the guy behind the desk.
Speaker 1:He was either like the doctor who was like training the psychiatrist, or he's like the captain in the police force who's like God damn it, do what. I tell you. He got kind of typecast as the magician character and that's who he is. Also in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Speaker 2:Right yeah.
Speaker 1:So we're going to get into Mr Sutherland's work, three of his more famous pieces, but before we do I want to give a little bit of a background on the incredible Donald Sutherland, which I learned a lot doing some research on this guy. Despite starting his career in all of these American war movies, this dude's Canadian no, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:I feel like everyone who's really good is not American. When you find, like when you trace back their origins Sorry Americans.
Speaker 1:Well.
Speaker 2:Sorry, john C Reilly, I know you're American. I love you.
Speaker 1:On the week of 4th of July. Jeez, I'm a crow. So yeah, he was born in St John, new Brunswick, canada, in 1935. John, new Brunswick, canada, 1935. Rose to fame, as I mentioned, with three prominent war films the Dirty Dozen, which came out in 1967. Mash and Kelly's Heroes Both of those came out in 1970. And from there he went on to an incredible run of films as a leading and supporting actor, including Clute Don't Look Now, which we'll talk about later, animal House, invasion of the Body Snatchers, ordinary People, jfk, pride and Prejudice and, of course, most recently, the Hunger Games franchise, which I have seen none of those Hunger Games movies, so I can't speak to those too much.
Speaker 2:I think he's a bad guy in it. Good, I think he's a bad guy in it Good. I think he's like the president or something. I only saw the first one, cool.
Speaker 1:But 1995, he won an Emmy Award for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Limited Series or Movie for Citizen X, which he's incredible and I haven't seen that in a couple decades also, but good movie, Donald's great in it. The man never won an Academy Award, but he was given the Honorary Academy Award in 2017. They recognized the error of their ways, as they often do too late ways, as they often do too late. And, of course, I think it's worth mentioning that the acting bug caught on to the family because you know, obviously his son, Kiefer Sutherland, had a great career in television and film as well, and something that I learned, Sonia. Right now we are in the middle of watching the show Veep, which we thought would be a fun thing to watch during an election year. It's turning out to be both hilarious and depressing. Show's excellent. But Sarah Sutherland, who plays Catherine Selina Meyer's daughter in that show that is Kiefer's daughter, Donald's granddaughter Didn't know that. That was a learn something new every day moment.
Speaker 2:That's cool. She's so funny. She's like one of those characters that I feel like they weren't going to give her such a big role initially on the show and they just were like, wait, we have to keep like writing more stuff for her because she's so funny.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. I agree she's. She is got a got a subtle way about her that, just like always, always works in that show and so that was very cool to see Sonia. Any any thoughts on Sutherland career and life as a whole before we dive into these, these three films?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well or well. No, I mean I think we can cover it during the film discussion, but I did pull what Kiefer Sutherland posted on social media after he died so I thought it was really nice and worth reading. So if you don't mind, I will read that Please. So yeah, this is from his son, kiefer Sutherland, great actor in his own right. Love flatliners he wrote. I personally think he is one of the most important actors in the history of film, never daunted by a role good, bad or ugly. He loved what he did and he did what he loved. And one can never ask for more than that A life well lived. And one can never ask for more than that A life well lived.
Speaker 1:Hear, hear, that's beautifully written, kiefer, beautifully written and I agree wholeheartedly. I think he is a very important actor in the history of film. As we are going to explore, as we talk about these three films, which we are going to start with, the film that haunted Sonia for 25 years Don't Look. Now is the name of the film 1973, directed by Nicholas Roeg.
Speaker 2:It's Roeg.
Speaker 1:Nicholas Roeg, based on the short story by Daphne Desmouilliers, who she wrote about the film after she saw it. This film added more depth to the unconscious thoughts that might have been my own, so she was a very big fan of this film, which is not always the case when you're talking about the source material writer. So don't look. Now we got a very handsome Donald Sutherland with an excellent mustache. We've got a very gorgeous Julie Christie with a hell of a fine hairdo herself in this movie. And the film opens with John Baxter, who's Donald Sutherland, and his wife Laura, who is Julie Christie. They're chilling at home, they're doing some work. It looks like one of those lovely lazy Saturdays or something. And then the unthinkable, the most nightmarish scenario happens, and that is their daughter falls into a pond or a lake or something, some body of water, water and drowns.
Speaker 1:We pick back up with the parents some some period of time later. It's. It's a little unclear, but the parents are now grief stricken. They're in Venice, italy, and Baxter is there working as an architect on a new massive church, while Laura, his wife, is working on herself finding new ways to deal with the death of their daughter, which includes meeting and seeing a psychic who, despite being blind, has third sight. And this blind woman tells the Baxters they need to GTFO, they need to get out of Venice Because if they stay, bad things are going to happen. And the psychic claims that this is a posthumous message from their daughter. Loaded with creepy camera work, hitchcockian storytelling, tense, world building, shots of Venice that would just make you go ew, like you've never seen Venice shot like this. It is absolutely disgusting. And two banger performances by Sutherland and Julie Christie, sonia, your thoughts on Don't Look Now, and the film that haunted your dreams for 25 years.
Speaker 2:When you said two banger performances, it immediately made me think about the sex scene in this movie which is admittedly not my takeaway from the film, by the way, but there is a pretty epic and pretty awesome sex scene between these two bangers of a performance.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And when I was watching it the other day Julie Christie is my dad's favorite actress of all time and I think this might be one one of his favorite movies and I was like, oh, I get it now.
Speaker 1:I see why he loves this movie.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:You got to see a lot of uh Julie Christie breasts and Donald Sutherland ass. So if you are a fan of uh, tits and or ass, don't look now as the movie for you.
Speaker 2:Yes, and curly 70s hair everywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, curly 70s, hair everywhere.
Speaker 2:So, sex scene aside, which maybe will come up later in the conversation in some more thoughtful and analytic way, I don't know. Well, I mean, I think this is an incredible film from a filmmaking standpoint. You know the, like you said, very Hitchcockian, lots of like cool visual motifs and match cuts, so it's it's really like. It's really deep from a filmmaking standpoint and deep from a, you know, emotional exploration of humanity standpoint. So, yeah, I was, I was blown away. It didn't disappoint, it did not scare me as much as it did when I was like 16. But I also did close my eyes during the end part to not to not be like retraumatized.
Speaker 1:I knew I had to stay at home alone that night in the afternoon, per your request, and, uh, I did look over towards the climax of the film and saw that you had your hands covering your eyes and I was like, oh snap, sonia's going through it right now it's just just a precaution.
Speaker 2:yeah, I just remember like after I saw this, we had like a German shepherd and when I was in high school named Heidi. She was wonderful and I never closed the door of my bedroom all the way because we had to be able to let the cats and dogs like freely roam through the house. That was like an understood rule. So I was sleeping and in the night Heidi came up like into my room and like put her face in my face, like on my bed, like she was like you know the height of the bed and I woke up and like screamed because I thought it was the like little person from the end of the movie.
Speaker 2:The murderer was like like eye to eye with me on my bed.
Speaker 1:She does have dog-like features.
Speaker 2:Less hairy. But yes, so seriously like, yeah, it scared me, but I do think that if I went back to like Venice which I do hope we go to Venice at some point.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to Venice after watching this movie. Are you kidding me? Bad things happen there.
Speaker 2:Aw, well, you know, that was 50 years ago.
Speaker 1:It's fine now, I guess that's true.
Speaker 2:But I would love to, because I have been to Venice, italy, but I'd like to go back because I don't know if I've been, since I've seen this and yeah, it just seems so creepy. And I've never been to Venice at night, I've never spent the night there. So I was like, oh, I want to go spend the night and see if it's as eerie as this movie makes it seem.
Speaker 1:Well, this film also takes place in the winter, and most films that take place in Venice they always are shot in the spring or the summer and it's bright, blue skies and the water's all blue. And this one is intentionally shot in the winter, where it looks frigid. You can see everybody's breath walking around. You see everybody like bundled up. It just looks bleak and gray and the city looks like it's deteriorating because you know all these old, hundreds and hundreds of year old buildings who are, you know, getting splashed with salty water all the time. In the bright sunlight it's like oh, look at that, that looks vintage, look at the colors. But in the summer, when it's all gray and cloudy, it looks like shit.
Speaker 2:And you mean in the winter, sorry yeah.
Speaker 1:In the winter, when it's all gray and cloud, it looks like shit.
Speaker 2:So excellent choice by by Nicholas Rogue. To set this in the wintertime? Yeah for sure, it definitely is not sunny and cheerful. Plus, the winter lends itself to some really great costume choices, which was something I definitely noticed in this movie, like the textures and the colors of the clothes were kind of dark and you know the couple's not very happy, obviously because their daughter has passed away. But yeah, the the clothing and the fabrics were like really fantastic in this movie.
Speaker 1:And, and there's a nice touch for both of the lead characters' costumes their daughter who passed away, when we see her drown, she's wearing this bright red raincoat boots that kind of like mimic the jacket of their daughter old hint of red on it, that's kind of like kind of shows like both parents trying to cling to, you know, their daughter in in any way they can. Uh, so those nice little touches. The film is loaded with all kinds of little touches and symbolism and all that kind of stuff that, like, I'm sure you have some thoughts, sonia, but it for me, being this is this is the first time I've seen it. Like the first thing I thought when the movie was done was like my god, I gotta watch it again, just because it is so dense and so loaded with so much visual storytelling and symbolism that I couldn't even we're not gonna be able to scratch the surface here in this discussion right, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Well, that was part of why I think I've been trying to get us to watch this for a long time. Like it'll periodically be at a, at the new Bev or at some theater and I'm always like we should go and then, for one reason or another, we can't. And I think it's because I was like this time I'm going to, I'm going to crack it, I'm going to understand all the symbols in this movie, because I remembered how dense it was and it's really a testament to how really excellent the film is, that 25 years later, however long it's been since I've seen it, that I remembered so many details, even before rewatching it. It just stays with you because it's just so, it's just so well made.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and it make even though I don't think I understand the movie fully, which we'll talk about in a second like it, it, it makes sense in like a, a guttural, visceral way that stays with you even if you don't like intellectually comprehend every detail yeah, you don't.
Speaker 1:You don't necessarily need to understand all of the symbolism, of which there's like symbolism, a plenty with like religion and and all this kind of stuff, but but at the heart of it it is a story about these two grieving parents, one of them dealing with it one way, another one dealing with it a very another way, and the horrors that come with just trauma and like losing somebody you love. And it is not a traditional horror sense in the fact that there's no like you know quote unquote monster. You're not like running from Freddy Krueger or something like that, there's no ghosts coming at you, but the horrors of grief and life and how to, how we internalize it and deal with it. That can be incredibly scary also, and they pull that off well.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean probably scarier in a way since Freddy's not real, I hope. Yeah, I mean, I think the first like so as I was, was watching it. I'm like getting in like film school mode and like writing down all this stuff and then, of course, like as the third act of the film is going, I'm like not writing down anything. So I'm just like completely absorbed, um, and what's happening?
Speaker 2:yeah but, um, but I think like there's a few motifs that are are worth acknowledging, if not totally understanding, and like water is definitely a primary one. I mean the their daughter, christine, drowns in a pond, and Venice is, you know, famously the city that's built on the water. You know the way you get around there's like no, I don't even think there's cars in Venice Like I think you get around on boats.
Speaker 2:Like that's the streets where you walk, and then there's all of these like image, this like imagery in the canals, like they are walking down the street and then all of a sudden the street just like dead ends into this little tiny staircase that goes into the canal, which is like absolutely horrifying, especially considering one of the characters in the movie's like blind yeah god, that seems very dangerous or could you imagine that today, with everybody on there, you know all these zombies on their cell phones and you're just like scrolling Tinder or whatever, and then you're plop, you're in the, you're in the canal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, serves you right.
Speaker 2:They're like turn right here. Yeah, exactly, there's a part where you see like rats swimming in the canal. There's a part where they pull a woman who'd been drowned out of the canal, which is a really kind of disturbing image. There's like a part where Donald Sutherland's character finds like this little baby doll that's like floating face down in the canal, which is, you know, obviously very related to their daughter and how she died. So there's like all of that. And then there's even like a scene where julie christie faints, um, while they're having lunch, and like all the liquids from the like the wine and the salad dressing and different things are like all just dripping on her while she's unconscious on the floor that scene made me really uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Like it wasn't like necessarily a scary scene, but that scene where she faints after meeting the blind psychic for the first time and her sister, that whole sequence just really set the tone. For good God, I am uncomfortable.
Speaker 3:You're so sad and there's no need to be my sister's psychic. She wants you to know I've seen her and she wants you to know that she's happy. I've seen your little girl sitting between you and your husband and she was laughing. Yes, oh yes, she's with you. She's with you, my dear, and she's laughing. I'm sorry if we're stirred. She's wearing a shiny little map, christine, oh, but she's laughing.
Speaker 2:She's laughing, she's happy as can be, oh, but she's laughing.
Speaker 1:She's laughing, she's happy as can be. I am uncomfortable with this whole situation.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, it's super creepy and I think the women, the psychic and her sister actually have good intentions, yeah, but I think classically you meet these like spinster old lady sisters, and one of them's like blind and they're like telling this young woman like information, that's like upsetting her, yeah, and you're kind of like, oh, this is bad, this is going to be really bad, but it ends up not really being so bad for her, maybe for other characters in the movie, yeah, so, so, yeah, there's all this like liquid and water stuff happening which, like then made me be like, oh, it's also like very religious, because he's there to, um, restore a cathedral and when the daughter drowns he's looking at a slide of a cathedral. And you know, italy is such a religious country or known for being such a religious country. And there's like this bishop who's like a central character, or I guess I should say like a peripheral character. So I was like, is there like a baptism theme? I don't have an answer to that, but these were thoughts that I was having.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, like I think I told you and I'm not going to get into the details of it because I am not an expert on Catholicism but I read a lot of theories. I read some theories that, like this, there's a lot of like Adam and Eve symbolism in this, and I read why and I was like, oh man, look at this Adam and Eve. I'm going to be so smart on the podcast, but then I forgot it all because I'm not like super privy on on the religious stuff. The only thing I know really about Catholicism is that if you start putting Catholicism in your movie, it's going to get creepy. Have you ever seen a movie about Catholicism that is not weird and creepy? The Catholics are just fucking creepy, man, even the ones that are made by Catholics, that are for Catholics, like Passion of the Christ creepy as shit. That movie, know, it's like, uh, why? Why the creepy?
Speaker 2:yeah, I guess that's true. I mean, maybe it's because it's so ancient and it's so, like you know, the main character in catholicism was like crucified and stuff. So you know, you drink blood, eat body, things like that. Clearly I'm also an expert on Catholicism here, but yeah, it certainly lends itself to all kinds of intense imagery and messages.
Speaker 1:And I apologize to our Catholic listeners. You're all right. I don't care what they say. Yeah, sorry, lynch family.
Speaker 2:yes, and andy barra family yeah, so the other symbol that I noticed a lot um, and this kind of relate this will bring me to like one of the craziest scenes I think in the whole movie is like eyes and looking and windows and mirrors are like really big, like the first shot of the movie is actually like a reflection of the um pond where the daughter ends up drowning, I'm pretty sure yeah but you know, obviously there's like a blind character they call being psychic second sight so second sight.
Speaker 1:I said third sight earlier, but you're right.
Speaker 2:Second sight, my bad yeah, I don't know what if. If that's third sight, what's your second sight?
Speaker 1:well, I was thinking third eye open. That was what my where my brain went.
Speaker 2:But you're right, second sight okay second either way, uh, but yeah, it's like another form of sight.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right yeah, looking at slides, looking in mirrors A lot of there's a lot of really great scenes that take place in, like the bathroom of their hotel, which has a big mirror in it. But also there's like a scene where John is in the cathedral. He's about to or that he's restoring, or that he's restoring, and he's trying to like see if this new piece of a mosaic is going to fit in with like the old mosaic that they're trying to restore and he's like trying to find where it'll match. And he goes like near the eye of this person that's in the mosaic and then all of a sudden, this like janky ass horrifying scaffolding that he's on. That was already like freaking me out.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like breaks Right horrifying scaffolding that he's on. That was already like freaking me out. Yeah, like breaks right and he just is like a he's gonna, like free, fall into the ground and die, like you know, fall several feet from like the roof of this cathedral, but um, he grabs a rope and it's very stressful and, um, yeah, I thought that was like a really intense scene I think I was I think I was like yelling at the tv. I was like why don't you grab him?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah it was, it was intense. It was intense. And then other shit's falling from the everybody's getting pieces of plywood are falling on other workers as they're trying to save them. It's, it's a gripping scene yeah, very grippy.
Speaker 2:Yes, the asbestos is just out of control.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought that was like it's funny because it's like probably the most like action packed scene in the movie and it ends up being fine when I saw that scene.
Speaker 1:I said you know what they need on this job Some Mexicans. This would never happen. Yeah, the Italian people, they don't build like they used to no no um, but yeah, the, the, the vision, the sight, the, the mirrors, the reflections, all again. I'm not quite sure what it all means, but it's fun to look at. And yeah, there's a lot of scenes of julie christie with like we're looking at her through like three different mirrors and you see her from like three different angles at the same time. You're just like man.
Speaker 1:She looks great from every single angle damn you, julie christie but I mean, and of course the film is called don't look now. So. So so the, the, the sight and and reflection, uh, motif is definitely strong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah. I mean I I honestly like want to just watch it again. Um, maybe I'll even keep my eyes open for the end. I don't know Probably not, but Maybe I'll even keep my eyes open for the end. I don't know Probably not, but it's like. Again, I think that there's so much meaning and there's so much happening in this movie and it's not essential to understand it, because you do understand it just by watching it.
Speaker 1:Like your body, your like deeper sense, your your second sight your second understands and as, as the writer of the original short story said oh, I'll say the quote again the film added more depth and unconscious thoughts that might have been my own. So, on an unconscious or subconscious level, you get it. Um, even if you don't understand every one of these, like masterful shots, your guts are telling you what's happening and what you're supposed to be feeling, and uh, and it all works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, by the way, the author of the novel also wrote the um novel, rebecca, that the is based on no shit, wow, that's cool yeah wow, daphne dumar. Yay, we're gonna have to check you out yeah, it sounds like she writes some dark books yeah, um.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, we could dive into this movie for ages, probably, but it must be seen to be believed and once you see it, nothing is as it seems. Don't Look Now. From 1973, starring the late great Donald Sutherland. An incredible film. I think he won or was nominated for a BAFTA for this, and it is available at your local video stores. I highly recommend checking it out. As Sonia mentioned, it pops up in repertory screenings frequently. So if you ever see it, pop up, check it out on the big screen. Now that I've seen it once, I definitely want to check it out on the big screen and if you want to be demanding, you can rent it on demand. All right.
Speaker 1:The second film that we are going to be discussing is we're going back in time. We're going backwards three years. This is perhaps the film that Donald Sutherland is most famous for, or at least was most famous for Um, and that film is mash, directed by Robert Altman, written by ring Lardner, based on Richard hookers 1968 novel. All the films we're discussing today based on, uh, previous written work, other source material. That's just something I just picked up on, as in the moment, right now yeah, I noticed that too actually, uh.
Speaker 1:So mash is an acronym for mobile army surgical hospital and it follows three doctors, uh, a mere three miles. This is the gimme three podcast. Three doctors, three miles from the front lines of the korean war. We got hawkeye pierce, who's played by donald sutherland, we got duke forrest, who's played by tom scarrett, and we got Trapper John, played by Elliot Gould. And these doctors are wild and crazy guys. They are getting into hijinks and they play some pranks and they love women or hate women, depending on how you want to look at it and they have got issues with rules and authority and authority figures, especially their female superior, who they coin hot lips.
Speaker 1:The film unfolds, uh, kind of like an anthology film of sorts. It's very episodic, which, uh, as you pointed out to me, babe, that this is, uh, it's no wonder that this kind of sparked one of the most successful sitcoms ever produced. Uh, in fact, there's actual numbers to show that this was the most successful sitcom ever produced. The film won the Palme d'Or at the 1970 Cannes Film Festival and was nominated for five Academy Awards and took home the Best Adapted Screenplay Oscar, sonia Maru. Your thoughts on MASH MASH? Can I say something real quick? Actually, I got some fun stories about growing up with the show. But when I was a kid I did not realize that MASH was an acronym, so I just thought they all. They capitalized all the letters just for like effect, so I used to call the show MASH.
Speaker 2:Anytime the show would be on'd be like let's watch mash um, well, I never, I've never seen this show, which is, I insane, I I realize, being that it's the like longest running show, or whatever. Um, although my childhood association with MASH was this game that we would play called Mansion Apartment, shack House, and it was like all the girls we would have like all these lists of like different like things like that, or like different categories of things in your like future life, your life, and then you know you would pick like a number and like you would go through and like cross out things until you ended up with like one thing per category and you'd end up being like, oh well, you're gonna live in a shack, oh, and your job is gonna be like a social worker oh my and you're, you know, gonna be married to bud bundy.
Speaker 2:You know it would always be like boys that you went to school with Right. Yeah, so that's what I always thought of as MASH as a kid.
Speaker 1:That sounds like more fun.
Speaker 2:It's a fun game. We can play it sometime We'll see what your future life holds. Yeah, so yeah, the movie I had wanted to see for a long time because I love Robert Altman, love shortcuts, nashville, ready to wear three women, so like so many of his movies. But I'd never seen mash, which is, you know, kind of like the most famous, considered one of the greatest of all time. So I'd really really high expectations and I have to say, as a a film it did not live up to my expectations. Um, but I I of course think donald sutherland was, you know, like fantastic in it. I mean, I think the whole cast and that's one of altman's biggest strengths is like he can just pull together these insane ensemble casts yeah and give like.
Speaker 2:Any character can become like the star for a moment or a scene, with these like great casts that he has. And I think there's, like you know, the theme song is incredible. As you said, it's the same as the one from the show. I guess I've never seen the show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you know, if you've watched the show and you know, the theme song, which I'm sure a lot of people have.
Speaker 1:I'll stop there so we don't get sued. But in the film, the movie opens with the lyrics and it's kind of similar to the opening credit crawl of the show, only this one's got lyrics Lyrics on this one and the lyrics of the song. The song is called Suicide is Painless by Johnny Mandel, and you're just like, whoa, okay, we've got some lyrics to this tune. Huh, and the lyrics set you up for something kind of heavy that the film doesn't really deliver. But continue, sonia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I thought the opening scene was like incredible. I was like I am all in on this movie. I have had the song stuck in my head all week. It's a great song.
Speaker 2:Another thing Altman does really well songs in his films, yeah, but I would actually say that suicide is painless might actually describe the like vibe of the film more than you would think because, it's like they're going, they're in this crazy, horrible place, they're at war um, which I know is Korea, but, as Altman has said, it was shot during Vietnam and released during Vietnam and in his mind it was always Vietnam but the studio and. But the book was based in Korea and the studio was like this is absolutely not a Vietnam movie, we don't want to touch that. So they have, they have, you know, they make a point to tell you it's korea.
Speaker 2:but it's in altman's mind and in the actor's minds I'm sure it's vietnam, although it's really shot in southern california, neither here nor there. But yeah, it's like this very horrible situation. They're like near the front line of the war. They're like literally trying to save lives with like Tampax and dental floss, you know, like this is not a proper hospital. The main characters, at least, are drafted, so it's not like they want to be there. So they're trying to do everything they can to make this like horrible experience, as painless as possible for them, to make this like horrible experience as painless as possible for them. And in some ways I don't agree with how they act because I do think they're very like like sexist and borderline, like misogynist behavior and like there's other things I don't love about them. But I do kind of understand like that. This is like about coping mechanisms for like a horrific situation totally, yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I, I agree.
Speaker 1:And um, the film you know, like, at the time I we talked about this because you've had to hear me I agree with you. I was my, I had high expectations and for me the expectations were not met. Um, I think I was perhaps even lower on this film than you were, but there were, there were things that I appreciated about it. Um, and you know, at the time that this came out, 1970, it was very, very boundary pushing. The filmmaking approach especially was like very fresh. The like laid-back conversational approach was very fresh. The overlapping dialogue of having like actors talk over each other was like pretty radical at the time. Altman's like always placing his camera you know, seemingly like a hundred yards, and then he'll like crash, zoom into you know a two shot or something which is like you know a unique way to shoot a scene. There are a lot of sound issues in the film and I think that might be part of the reason why it's because, like, if you're starting with a super wide and then crash, zooming into a closeup, there's no real place for you to put the boom. So that might explain some of the sound issues. And then the structure, as we talked about a little bit. You know was was very fresh and surprising in a sense. The film is kind of like uh, anarchist, rule breaking and and and much like the characters in in the film are, and I can appreciate and respect all of those accolades and touchstones. But, as you know, because you've had to hear me bitch about it for the last three days, the film was not for me. In my opinion doesn't quite hold up, and not for the reasons you think, not for the misogyny or the racist jokes of which there is like a lot, and you know, if you're gonna be triggered by that stuff, I'd just say probably avoid the film just because it's like constant the misogynist and sexist jokes. But I think, uh, there are films of that era that wouldn't make you, that wouldn't get made today, that still hold up, you know, like blazing saddles or something like that.
Speaker 1:Um, but yeah, like you said, it is uh, donald sutherland, I think, and elliot gould, I are as harsh a characters as they were. The performances were awesome, oozing with charisma, oozing with swagger. Uh, despite winning best of adaptive screenplay, I thought there was a some clunky dialogue on the page, but Sutherland and ghoul just make everything feel so freaking natural and they're like they're bastards. But you're just like God damn, those guys are kind of cool. Those guys are kind of cool, um, freaking natural and they're like they're bastards. But you're just like god damn, those guys are kind of cool. Those guys are kind of cool, um, and so do you have some 60 year old tea to dish out too, don't you about donald sutherland and elliot gould?
Speaker 2:they do. I mean, I think it's been dished because, like, I read it on the internet. But yeah, I mean they both had iconic performances for sure. I mean, I think, even though Alan Alda played Hawkeye on the TV show, I think that Donald Sutherland is like just as inextricably linked to that character, and he only played him for two hours.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:And you know, elliot Gould is, just like always, the best yeah even when he's on friends, you're just like, yeah, I love this guy, but yeah, supposedly um. Both elliot gould and donald sutherland spent a good chunk of the filmmaking trying to get robert altman fired. Unclear on exactly why, but I do know that robert altman, especially in his earlier career, wasn't known to be like the easiest person to work with. Probably something related to that and maybe something to do with the kind of unconventional aspects of of the film you know yeah how it was filmed and and stuff like that, or people talking over each other.
Speaker 1:You know like if you're, if you're being like, oh well, he's gonna talk over my lines. Well, that's my goddamn line, you know yeah you know how actors are. Well, I'm going after everybody today. What is up with that? Sorry actors, I love you guys you.
Speaker 2:Just you feel too comfortable around me, obviously. Apparently donald sutherland and altman like never made peace on this fact and you know that's like never worked together again. But supposedly elliot gould did write a letter of apology, maybe after mash became like the smashing success that it was and he was like oh you know, I don't know what his motivation was um, but they collaborated again several times, including on the Long Goodbye, which is another like amazing Altman movie.
Speaker 1:Great movie yeah.
Speaker 2:An amazing Elliot Gould movie. Yeah, but you know I think Altman had the last laugh there because I think you know this movie was like a massive hit. I think you know this movie was like a massive hit, like I think it cost $3 million to make and made like 80 something million domestically and obviously won the Palme d'Or, won Best Adapted Screenplay, became a TV show which you know I'm sure made someone money, maybe not Robert Altman. Yeah, so it clearly, and it's considered one of the greatest films of all time. We have 100 essential films poster on our wall and MASH is one of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, whatever you know, we personally think as viewers, clearly it is like an adored film.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah. I think it's on AFI's top 100, I'm sure. And yeah, I'm sure, Altman did get a piece of that MASH sitcom money. So did you know that MASH, the finale of that show, is the most watched episode of television ever?
Speaker 2:More than the finale of Lost.
Speaker 1:Just kidding, believe it or not, more than the finale lost and uh, and I think to this day that record holds and, considering that people are watching less and less tv, that pro, that record will probably never be broken. So that is uh. That just says something about how the longevity of this, this enterprise, mash was, because it was uh that that show was a banger of a hit. And the thing I wanted to mention about the show, the fun story I had which we were at dinner with my mom and my aunt the other day talking about. Uh, my first memory ever that I can remember is waking up like in the middle of the night or late at night, waking up in my room with my mom sleeping and the TV on and mash being on the television and that theme song and the end credits going. That's like the first memory that I have of my, of my life, is mash.
Speaker 2:Wow, that is significant MASH. Maybe that's why you went into the film industry.
Speaker 1:Who knows? Who knows, I should have been a doctor.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I don't know. I don't know if this movie makes a good argument for being a doctor.
Speaker 3:It certainly doesn't know, I don't know if this I don't know if this movie makes a good argument for being a doctor, it certainly
Speaker 2:doesn't. But I have to say, before we move on to the next uh movie, that there's a few scenes that I did really think were just great. Um again, like, like. I I think that this was a movie that was of its time. And if this movie, if I was of that time, I think I would was a movie that was of its time. And if this movie, if I was of that time, I think I would love this movie the way that audiences clearly loved it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think you know we're desensitized by certain things like the violence of the surgery scenes.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Like it just doesn't hit the same way when you've seen all of the insane violence that we've seen in movies or characters talking over each other.
Speaker 1:It's like oh, you're just like. Okay, well, it's a normal scene, we're used to that. But that was like. That was like cutting edge shit when that came out exactly, you're like rude yeah, um interrupting each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean like all of the things that made it cutting edge.
Speaker 2:I mean even like the satire of something that was like happening at that time.
Speaker 2:Right, there's a scene where, um, hot lips, oh, hula hand and robert duvall's character are having sex in the tent and they send one of the guys who's actually played by bud court, um, who's harold from harold and maude, they send him in to like plant a microphone under the bed while they're having sex and then they play the sounds to like the entire army camp over the loudspeaker, right, and like that's just, it's just good hijinks, it's just good wild and crazy guys. I also like thought it was funny because like they don't really play it, like you don't feel like you're supposed to laugh, like you know it's funny, but like you don't laugh, I don't know. I thought it was like interesting, like how robert altman did these scenes that were quite like zany but they weren't like slapsticky the way that other comedies are. There's also this whole like football sequence at the end, which is like pretty absurd and just kind of frivolous and like a silly way to end the movie. But I enjoyed it, especially because Fred Williamson is in it, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I love him.
Speaker 1:Yeah so that was.
Speaker 2:it was fun to see him and also just to think like, yeah, we're in the midst of war but like the head people of these like battalions or whatever they're called in the army, just want to like play football and gamble on it right that really does not feel far off, no like, even if that's not like literally what's happening, like it feels very at like real absolutely, absolutely, yeah, no, I agree, there there are.
Speaker 1:You know, like I said, it's it. It's kind of an anthology piece and some of the little pieces, some of the little episodes are great and get you cracking up and laughing. And then, yeah, some just didn't work for me, minority, because it is considered one of the all-time greats. So don't listen to old Nick, listen to yourself, listen to your heart. Mash, it's available on demand. I think you can rent it on wherever you rent your movies, and that includes renting them at your local video store. If you live in LA, vidiot's recommend it, cinephile Video recommend it, videotech recommend it, check it out. Which brings us to our last film of the day, celebrating the life of old Mr Donald Sutherland, a film I had not seen. I hadn't seen any of these movies. How often does that happen on the Gimme Three podcast? I hadn't seen a single one of these Six Degrees of Separation from 1993, directed by Fred Schapissi I'm not sure if that's how you pronounce his name, but I hope it is because it sounds cool.
Speaker 1:That is I don't think that's his name fred skapisky I thought it was skapisi fred skapisi either way directed by fred. Written by john guar from the famous band Guar.
Speaker 2:That is how you pronounce his name.
Speaker 1:Okay, there you go. Written by John Guar, based on his Pulitzer Prize nominated play, and the cast is as stacked as a Fifth Avenue apartment complex. You got Donald Sutherland, you got Stalker Channing, you got Will Smith, you got ian mckellen, anthony michael hall, heather graham and that's just scratching the surface, really. Uh. And we've got another movie that toys with structure and subverting expectations, expectations.
Speaker 1:This film, six Degrees of Separation, follows these Fifth Avenue elite socialites. Wesa, short for Louisa, is played by Stockard Channing and Flan is played by Donald Sutherland. Flan is an art dealer and he is dealing mainly in high-end pieces that are going for millions. So, needless to say, they are rich. And one day this young, well-mannered, well-dressed young man comes in, knocks on their door and he says I know your kid's at Harvard and he's looking for help. He's been stabbed and indeed he has been stabbed. He's looking for help, he's been stabbed and indeed he has been stabbed.
Speaker 1:So this young man, paul, who's played by a very young Will Smith, he's charming. He's a charming motherfucker, let me tell you. He knows exactly how to swoon these rich folk, and they are drooling all over him. And even more so they're drooling all over him when he drops that he is the son of Sidney Poitier. Now listen, everybody loves Sidney Poitier, everybody loves Sidney Poitier. But you know who especially loves Sidney Poitier? White people. White people love Sidney Poitier because they're like're, like, hey, there's a black man that I can get down with I feel comfortable about that man yes, exactly, uh, so brilliant play by paul and the.
Speaker 1:it's just, it's just all gonna make for great conversation, right? These socialites can be like oh, my kids know the son of sydney Poitier and they're going to Harvard together. So any who? Paul is just wowing them with his mind and his existential analysis of man and imagination. He's just wowing them left and right. He's wowing them so much that they offer for him to stay at their places one night, because the next day he's going to go visit his pop. His pop's coming to New York City.
Speaker 2:He's going to go start working on making the film Cats.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, they're going to. Sidney Poitier is going to be directing the film adaptation of Cats. That's why he's coming to new york city and these, these socialites are like fascinating. Oh man, what a setup. And then we asked him what his thesis was on the one that was step.
Speaker 3:Well, a substitute teacher out on long Island was dropped from his job for fighting with a student. A few weeks later he returned to the classroom, shot the student unsuccessfully, held the class hostage and then shot himself successfully. This fact caught my eye. Last sentence times A neighbor described the teacher as a nice boy, always reading Catcher in the Rye. This nitwit Chapman who shot John Lennon said he did it because he wanted to draw the attention of the world to Catcher in the Rye and the reading of this book would be his defense. Young Hinckley, the whiz kid who shot Reagan and his press secretary, said if you want my defense, all you have to do is read Catcher in the Rye.
Speaker 3:I haven't read it in years. Well, I borrowed a copy from a young friend of mine because I wanted to see what she had underlined, and I read this book to find out why this touching, beautiful, sensitive story published in July 1951 had turned into this manifesto of hate. I started reading. It's exactly as I remembered Everybody's a phony. Page two my brother's in Hollywood being a prostitute. Page three what a phony slob his father was. Page nine people never notice anything. Then, on page 22, my hair stood up. Well, remember holden caulfield, the definitive, sensitive youth wearing his red hunter's cap a deer hunter's cap, like hell it is. I sort of closed one eye like I was taking aim at it. This is a people shooting hat.
Speaker 1:I shoot people in this hat he stays at the house and early in the morning, when Weiss is going to wake him up to go meet his father, she finds Paul getting freaky with another man in the guest room and they're shocked and it's a buzz kill and you know. End of story. But they start going to all these events a wedding here, an art show here. They're telling the story of their encounter with Sidney Poitier's wild and gay son to all their friends. As they're telling the story to all their friends, they discover that Paul's been making the rounds in this Fifth Avenue socialite scene. He ain't the only home that he's made a stop to, or they're not the only home he's made a stop to. So he's charmed his way through multiple homes. He never steals, he never hurts them, he just charms them and mind fucks them into submission, runs his game on him and from time to time gets his nut in the process. Six degrees of separation. Sonia, what did you think of? Six degrees of separation?
Speaker 2:I loved it. I think that this is an incredible movie yeah I had seen it, uh, in 1993. I, I guess I saw it when it came out, um, because I was a fan of will smith and french, uh, the fresh prince of bel-air. I clearly like did not understand this movie. Like re-watching it now, I was like how did I even like begin to comprehend this film, um, but goes to show, will smith's star power yeah yeah, you know, 10 year olds were like I have to see six degrees of separation.
Speaker 2:Did it probably help that I was from new york, so I did have like a leg up on some of the background knowledge? So yeah, rewatching it Now, I was just like blown away by the complexity of the emotions and the story and why Paul would go through everything that he's going through to be part of this world. You know, if it isn't for financial gain, like he doesn't want money, he doesn't want to become an art dealer, like he doesn't have any specific goal, he just wants to I guess you know to be part of it, to be, to be accepted.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I thought it was a great movie and I mean the three central performances are just incredible. I think I texted you when I was watching it and I was like young Will Smith is glorious. It was just so wonderful to watch him at that point in his career and so open and taking on a role that, like I don't think he's done anything similar, um no, it felt it felt like a a real risk and yeah, it wasn't you know I'm I'm a big will smith fan, uh, and you know, like recently, the last 20 years or so, it's mostly Will Smith movies, you know where it's like Will Smith as Will Smith.
Speaker 1:so it was fun to see him kind of do something that he was able to stretch his, his acting chops, which I'm sure he was excited to do, being in the midst of, you know, doing a weekly sitcom my favorite sitcom of all time, by the way Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. So yeah, it was, it was really fun to to watch him in this role, just because he is great in it. But he also gets to do a little performance within a performance and that's, you know, I love a performance within a performance.
Speaker 2:I think it's great and he did a good job of doing it yeah, no, I mean, this was like a huge career turning point for him, um, I mean, and he did some other like very stellar, like less will smithy roles um, yeah, I mean he's great and all the yeah I think he might have been nominated for an oscar for this movie I don't think he was for this movie.
Speaker 1:He might've been nominated for something, but I think the only Academy award nomination for this uh film was stalker. Channing was nominated for uh best supporting actress.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean, and well-deserved, I think she might've also played the same character in the play.
Speaker 1:Oh cool.
Speaker 2:Originally.
Speaker 1:Cool, cool.
Speaker 2:Um play oh cool, originally cool, cool. Um, don't quote me on that, yeah, and then something I noticed, because this was like the fourth donald sutherland movie I watched this week. I watched buffy, just you know because why not?
Speaker 2:um, I think one of his biggest strengths is that he is not a scene scenery tour yeah he probably could be if he wanted to be, but like I think that he can be like the low-key grounding element for other actors to go big. Um, because you know, like his, his performance is great, but he's like so understated compared to like stalker channing right or even will smith. I mean, will smith is like trying to act, understated because he's trying to act proper, but he's also like stealing every scene and like acting his ass off yeah in a very like like forward way he's mr charisma in this movie yeah, um, so I think that that's probably like what you know keifer sutherland is talking about.
Speaker 2:Like that, donald approached, you know, every role with like a respect, no matter what it was, because he wasn't always going to be like the guy that was like getting all the attention absolutely yeah and and and yeah, as you talked about Buffy, he definitely does that in Buffy, which is essentially a schlocky B film.
Speaker 1:It's a B movie in a very intentional way Bite your tongue movie and it's intended to be. You mentioned it also is like he takes it seriously, he grounds it and in doing so, he elevates the film, and that's what some of my favorite actors of all time do. I've mentioned it on this podcast before but, like I cling to the Pam Greers, I cling to the Robert Forrester's, I cling to the Pam Greers, I cling to the Robert Forsters, I cling to the Michael Parks' of the world's Donald Sutherland because, yes, they are incredible, incredible actors and they can deliver incredible performances, but they also can be in bad movies and make those bad movies kind of good, or at least they are good in them, and you're just like my God, that is the mark of an actor. He turned that line into a good line. My God, this film is filled with great lines. It's one of the one of the. I I'm excited to actually try and find the screenplay of this and read it, because this is a really incredibly written film.
Speaker 2:Incredibly. I think the first part of the movie that you talked about like at length at the beginning, which is like kind of the setup of like his whole first night with the Kittredges, is so incredible that in my memory from 20, years ago no, god, really 30 years ago when I saw this movie, was that that was the whole movie. Right, I forgot not to say that the rest of the movie is not well written, because it really is like it's fantastic and it becomes like a different movie. It becomes kind of like a suspenseful, like like not a whodunit, but like it changes tone after that first like section yeah but the first section is so well written that I thought that was the whole movie and I was like cool with that.
Speaker 2:I was like I'm gonna totally spend two hours in this apartment with these people like talking as he unravels this. You know this lie on them and I was like completely into it absolutely, yeah, the.
Speaker 1:The. I really, I really really loved this movie. I never knew where it was going, as you. You say like there's definitely a mystery element to it. But what I enjoyed about it so much and I can compare it to a more recent movie that I did not like so much is that there were as many emotional surprises and emotional twists as there were plot twists, like when you start to understand what's going inside Lisa's heart and her yearning for like connection and humanity and you start to feel for this, you know, rich socialite, and you start to empathize with with her a little bit more rich socialite and you start to empathize with with her a little bit more Um, when you see that Paul isn't above targeting poor people even, and you're just like what is this guy's game? He's not a one trick pony who's just, you know, coming con in the rich. Um, that was interesting to me.
Speaker 1:And then there is this emotional wallop of a dinner scene at the end of the film where Donald Sutherland and Stalker Channing just deliver the goods man. Spoiler alert, spoiler alert. So at the end of the film here's a big spoiler Paul has gone to jail, playtime's over and Lisa is kind of shook because she's kind of still enamored with him and she wants to connect to him because he was just so goddamn convincing and so charming. As they're still telling the story of how this has all gone down, she explains you know, like hey, you know like this prisoner. I just read that this prisoner just killed himself and I I wonder if it's him and she's shook by it. Clearly she's like not in a good place and Fran Sutherland's character chimes in and oh man, you talk about like a grounding performance.
Speaker 2:This. His delivery of this line almost made me cry, because it is a masterclass in subtext he says we haven't seen the last of him.
Speaker 3:believe me, he'll be back he'll find a way.
Speaker 1:The imagination, oh, you know, and he's like all kind of like trying to shake it off and laugh it off, but the delivery and the look on his face is so clear that he wants him to come back, you know he wants him to be, he wants this kid to be okay.
Speaker 1:You know, I was like my god, what a what a performance. And then, following that, like stalker, channing just delivers this incredible, incredible monologue which I'm sure earned her the oscar nomination. So that that scene was just incredible and it was a great button. Lots of layers, lots of layers in this movie and lots to love. Uh really was a surprise for me and I'm I'm excited to uh to revisit it. And, uh, I'm just surprised. I hadn't, like, really heard of it.
Speaker 2:Uh, being such a will smith fan, I had not heard of this film, but it is awesome yeah, that is surprising, especially since, like six degrees of separation is such a like known concept, you know, and there's even six degrees of kevin bacon I've heard of six degrees of kevin bacon. I've heard of that before. But yeah, I mean it goes to show if you're just like a rich, shallow person and you raise kids to be like you the way that Flan and Lisa did.
Speaker 2:Then you know, you meet somebody who's seems like they have depth and you're like oh, I love them more than I love my kids.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 2:Right? No, I don't know about that exactly, but but that's how it seemed. Is that like they had finally met somebody that felt real? You know, like their, their kids interaction and you know, with paul they felt like they got something real from him, right um, which is you know the irony, because he was lying because he was totally full of shit.
Speaker 2:Yeah but there was a few like just things that I had to like I want to point out about this movie that I wrote down that I appreciated. That are, um, maybe not as deep as what you just discussed, but, um, yeah, the the fact that city pottier is making a live action version of Cats Like I literally laughed out loud when they said that making it so much funnier that that film has actually been made. Yep, and we can think about that and compare it to what Sidney Poitier's version might have been, yep.
Speaker 1:So Dame Judi Dench. Hey, isn't Ian McKellen in Cats also, cats also? Oh my gosh, he is oh my god wow meta meta and not on a good way on another meta way.
Speaker 2:I like that he, uh will smith's Paul, references Lord of the Rings in talking to Ian McKellen's character, because Ian McKellen later plays Gandalf in one of my favorite movie trilogies, which we'll never discuss on this unless you're not on it.
Speaker 1:I'll be absent some weeks. Here and there you guys can discuss the Lord of the Rings trilogy Sweet.
Speaker 2:I also loved that a pot of jam is, like, known to be the best gift to give rich people Right. Like great tidbit and like so true, like not that I've ever given anyone a pot of jam, but next time that I'm like stuck on what to give someone a gift as a gift, it's not going to be a candle, it's going to be a pot of jam. So I might start making jam, nick. Just warning you now, it's going to be crazy in the kitchen. I mean, I don't even like jam.
Speaker 1:You don't even like candles, but you make candles.
Speaker 2:I don't even like cake and I made a cake yesterday. I like to make things to give them away, so jam is going to be the way I woo my rich, rich friends, Right, yeah. Another thing I just want to point out is that this movie would never work nowadays because of like social media, right? Like they. They can't like text their kids and be like I met Paul, or like go on Facebook or like you know any of that Right.
Speaker 2:They try to like start being like well, because they want to believe that Paul is maybe telling the truth. So they start like going to the library to like get books on Sidney Poitier to try to like find the name of his kid.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah. Well, there's a more modern version of this story that I did not like as much, uh, which is salt burn. You know it's kind of. This is um, which all that takes place in like what? The early 2000s, so also not fully in the modern social media world, but there are cell phones in that film.
Speaker 1:But where I thought that this movie succeeded and that movie failed was just the charm of the swooner by him and like he never did anything in the script. That made me be like okay, I can see why these people would just bend over backwards for this young man, whereas at this film we were talking about it earlier there were times towards the end of the movie where I still wanted to believe Paul and I still wanted Paul to like be good at the end. I wanted for this to work out and be like Paul's got his got, he should get his shot. You know, like he should be in this world and you don't get that with with Saltburn, where it pretty much every character in Saltburn is kind of like despicable and you want them all to suffer.
Speaker 1:This movie does the opposite where it's in a despicable world, but you have empathy for each and every single one of the characters Right, yeah, completely, except for those kids, like the rich kids don't really have empathy for each and every single one of the characters right yeah completely, except for those kids like the.
Speaker 2:The rich kids don't really have empathy for them they're kind of rats for sure. Did you notice the doctor?
Speaker 1:funny though do you notice the doctor's uh son who? Did you just recognize who that was? Uh, anthony rap oh the angry one yeah, yeah, the real angry uh doctor. No, that is uh jj abrams oh, that's so funny.
Speaker 2:I saw him on the cast list. Now that you mentioned it, I don't think I knew what he looked like. Yeah, he was. He's pretty funny he's pretty funny then yeah, um, he kind of was giving me like uh, what's his name from the Sopranos Meadows' boyfriend that gets killed.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He was giving me those vibes.
Speaker 1:Totally Pauly yeah.
Speaker 2:Pauly's a different character. You know who I'm talking about. Yeah, no, the yeah with Saltburn. The character that charms you is is the other guy, jacob Elordi's character.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:And, like Barry Keegan's, like like a, like a sad dog that they, you know, take in right exactly, um, who's just like very kind of conniving yeah manipulative. So, yeah, totally different dynamic. Yeah, six degrees of separation is a much more powerful film, because it's. It's cooler when you like people that are bad yeah you know, or not cool, it's more interesting. It it's challenges you to like. Think about yourself and why. Why, that would be absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a lot, of, a lot of heady, emotional, existential thoughts and themes in this that are definitely worth discussing and dissecting. So I recommend that y'all check it out. Six Degrees of Separation. It is streaming currently on Amazon Prime. Check it out, let us know what you think, and you can do that by messaging us on Instagram at gimme3podcast that's G-I-M-M-E. Spell out three podcast, gimme3podcast on Instagram. You can also send us a text message. You can do that by scrolling down to the episode description. At the very top of our episode description you're going to see a link that says send us a text message. Click that link and you can send us a text message.
Speaker 1:Please let us know what you think of Six Degrees of Separation. Let us know what you think of MASH, especially if you grew up in the era that MASH came out. I want to hear from you what worked about MASH. If you remember seeing it for the first time, how did it shake you move, you shake you. I want to hear from you. And then also let us know what you think of Don't Look Now. And if you haven't seen those movies, let us know your favorite Donald Sutherland movie. We want to know. Sonia, you are a wonderful, brilliant human being who is not on social media, and that's why I love you, but tell them do you want to let people know your Letterboxd handle? You are on Letterboxd.
Speaker 2:I am on Letterboxd, yeah, ever since I left social media. When I'm sitting alone trying to kill time, I just go on Letterboxd and see what my friends watched recently, or I just stare at the wall. Either works. Yes, my Letterboxd handle is SonjaM or Sonjam S-O-N-J-A-M. Nice, and my picture is of a cat nice.
Speaker 1:You can follow me on Letterboxd at Nicholas Ibarra, on Instagram at Nicholas Ibarra and on Twitter, also known as X, at Nicholas P Ibarra. And the P stands for Pottier. That's a wrap.
Speaker 2:Are you another relative of his?
Speaker 1:Well, hey, I never met my dad, so you never know.
Speaker 2:Oh my God.
Speaker 1:Boom. All right, everybody. That's a wrap on the Gimme Three podcast for today. We want to thank you all for listening to the show. Thank you, Sonia, for extending the Sonia's Movie Minute to Sonia's Hour Plus.
Speaker 2:You're welcome.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you all for listening to the Gimme me three podcast and we will see you at the movies.