Nurse Maureen‘s Health Show Podcast

The Teladoc Health Balancing Act: Women’s Health and Career Success

Maureen McGrath Season 1 Episode 53

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Balancing work and home life is a challenge many women know all too well. Discover the eye-opening findings of the Teladoc Health Canada-sponsored study that sheds light on the healthcare gaps in the workplace. With 60% of women struggling to access essential healthcare services, our discussion with Dr. Karolina Filipowska, Deputy Medical Director of Teladoc Health Canada, reveals the critical need for better support. From preventive health to mental health and chronic disease management, we explore why nearly 75% of women are more likely to remain with employers who prioritize their health.

In an engaging conversation, we unpack the results of a 2024 online survey conducted by Teladoc Health Canada in collaboration with Modus Canada. The survey highlights the desire for more personalized care, with a staggering 87% of women expressing this need. We delve into how inadequate healthcare can severely impact work life, causing decreased focus and productivity. Dr. Filipowska shares valuable insights on creating a supportive work environment that acknowledges these healthcare needs, emphasizing the importance of comprehensive health benefits in making women feel valued and productive.

Workplace health isn't just about reducing absenteeism; it's about fostering a culture of well-being and empowerment. This episode discusses how investing in women's health can significantly boost morale and productivity. Preventative care, mental health support, and addressing specific health needs like menopause are vital. Learn how virtual healthcare services can be seamlessly integrated into employee benefits to enhance overall well-being. Tune in for an empowering discussion on accessible healthcare solutions, including the innovative Moxie Patch for stress urinary incontinence, that can transform the lives of women in the workplace.

Speaker 1:

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Speaker 1:

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Speaker 1:

Good evening and welcome to another episode of my little Health Show podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in. I really appreciate it. I really appreciate a follow as well. As you know, the podcast is growing. We've had over 5,000 downloads. I'm so proud of that and so happy, and thank you for all your emails requesting information on particular subjects.

Speaker 1:

Looks like we have the summer planned, but right now I want to talk to you about a subject that is near and dear to my heart as a woman, a mother who has worked inside and outside of the home. This touches my heart so deeply because I've certainly had the struggle, my friends have had the struggle, my colleagues have had the struggle, and so I wanted to talk about a Teladoc Health Canada-sponsored study on the unique workplace health gaps based by women. It is going to be very sobering and very shocking information that you're going to hear, and this particular study was conducted by Modus Research Group and the research took a deep dive into the unique challenges and opportunities faced by working women across different age ranges, which is so important about maintaining their physical and mental well-being. If you've worked inside and outside of the home as a mom, you know it's tough to keep it all together. You may have limited vacation time, You're exhausted. You just think how can I do this? And you know more, so how is it that other people are doing it and maybe I'm not doing it that well? We've all had these thoughts and we're going to dive deep into it right now.

Speaker 1:

There were some key highlights of the study which we're going to focus on. And you know, about 77% of women work inside and outside of the home these days, so it's a significant amount of women. Some of the key highlights were 60% of respondents struggle with access to health care. The top issues for women include preventive health care, mental health and chronic disease management, and I see this in my clinical practice on the daily. And almost 75% of respondents say that they would be more likely to stay with an employer who better supports their health care needs. Companies need to pay attention to that. Well, joining me on the line, I'm delighted to have the Deputy Medical Director of Teladoc Health Canada, Dr Carolina Filipowska. Good evening, Dr Carolina, and how are you.

Speaker 2:

Oh hi, Maureen, Thank you so much for having me here on your podcast. I'm a huge fan. One of my recent favorites of yours is that it was the menopause special expose, and I'm just so honored to get to spend this time with you, and I'm well. Thank you for asking.

Speaker 1:

That is so sweet of you to say, but honestly, you know, the honor is mine and thank you so much for joining me. First and foremost, before we dive into the survey, can you tell us a little bit about Teladoc Health Canada?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. As you've mentioned, I am our Deputy Medical Director here at Teladoc Health Canada and my title, doctor, comes from PhD studies and, in addition to that, medical training, and so my home used to be in the emergency department full time, and there was a point in my career where I said I was going to pivot, and I think an important question is always where am I going to? And that makes sense to me, and so I considered, with time and information, what was a good choice for me, and the reason that I chose Teladoc Health Canada is that it is a global firm with over two decades of experience delivering virtual health care to patients in all areas, and so this is a sustainable company with proven experience with different health populations, which I thought was really important for my area and one of the pillars that really speaks to me. Two of Teladoc Health Canada, with my colleagues delivering health care coast to coast to coast with benefits groups, with individuals and with governments as well. So that's a little broad breaststroke on Teladoc Health Canada.

Speaker 1:

That is fantastic. We think of virtual health care as something that came out of the pandemic, but Teladoc Health Canada has been around for a while, which is awesome. Well, thank you so much for that explanation. In a 2024 online survey that was conducted to find out about what women wanted in the workplace with regard to their health, what were some of the key findings there?

Speaker 2:

So, maureen, just as a background to why has this study come to place? As I said, teladoc Healthcare was founded with the vision to create a world where great healthcare is always in reach and, as you pointed out, this company is not kind of one of those mushrooms after the rain during a pandemic. And so, when we look at expanding our services, we think with deliberation what do we need to do? And we realized we do not know enough about women's health, and so, for that reason, this study was a priority of ours. Now, your statistics suggested that somewhere in the 70s, I have numbers that say that women make up 85% of the workplace. I think either number, what we're saying is we're the majority of the workplace and, gosh almighty, we really need to know about our workplace if we're going to make it thrive. And so, as you mentioned again, in terms of good research quality, we partnered with Modus Canada and we surveyed over 400 women in the workforce across Canada, so coast to coast to coast, with an in-depth look at their health care needs and their priorities in order to serve them better. And what you mentioned as well is that you know, if we think about women in their career phases are you early career? Are you mid-career, are you experienced career? It's likely that you as a human have different needs and also your health care needs are different, and the news is unfortunately troubling.

Speaker 2:

The findings are troubling. We saw significant gaps in access to care and personalization of care to women's needs. Specifically, 60% of women say they struggle to access pardon me, they struggle with access to health care. That word is so worrying to me. Struggle, can you imagine? Just as you've said, I'm also a mom. I'm also, you know, cooking dinner with one hand, doing laundry with the third, the second, and speaking on a business call, and then can I have now energy to struggle to go and get my health care? That doesn't sound right.

Speaker 2:

87% of women surveyed said they need more personalized care to address women's unique needs. You know, when I was in medical school I'm not sure if this was the same in nursing they always said to us children are not little adults, this is not a smaller version of a bigger body, and I think we need to take on that same viewpoint about women. Women are not little adults, this is not a smaller version of a bigger body, and I think we need to take on that same viewpoint about women. Women are not the opposite of men or the, you know, a different version of men.

Speaker 2:

Women are women and you know, within our category of women, we're such a diverse group. We have people who identify as women, we have trans women, we have such a colorful fabric of who we represent that it's important to identify and respect unique needs. And my third thing that I want to share you know, a takeaway point from this is that this is highly concerning. Sixty-eight percent of younger women in the emerging workforce report difficulties in accessing health care and 33 percent of those need support with fertility and family planning.

Speaker 1:

It just really crosses so many areas of health care and it's just so shocking and difficult and so difficult for women in the workforce to navigate their health. And who comes last when women are raising families? It's the woman, you know, she puts everybody else's needs ahead of hers and it makes it that much more challenging. So how does the lack of access to health care which seems pretty poignant affect the work life of Canadian women?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Maureen, I love the word that you've used, that navigate piece and I would think if we take away a couple of points from this podcast, one of them might be the idea of navigation. How do we navigate the system as a user? How do we navigate the system as someone who gives care to people who need it access to health care services? Let's think about a woman going to work and not having health care needs met. I can take it on as an individual person. So if I'm feeling unwell and yet I'm going to my job, I personally am going to have decreased focus, I'm going to have lack of concentration and I'm probably also going to be negatively thinking about the experience. And if you look at it from the lens of an employer, you might see that the productivity of that employee and the satisfaction with the work they're doing is decreased. I don't think you'd be surprised to kind of draw that conclusion. So maybe, if we look at it at a personal level, this is actually reflected in our data, maureen.

Speaker 2:

We found approximately two-thirds of women said that comprehensive health care benefits make them feel more valued and productive at their work and 84% said that they have a positive impact the benefits on their overall well-being, and that's not surprising, because if I feel like I'm going to work, I'm going to work with a group of people, and that group of people cares about me. If they know that I'm Karolina Filipovska, my daughter's Maya and she's nine and today I'm sick, I'm going to feel like I'm in a team that cares about me, and if, on top of that, that team offers me benefits, I'm going to really feel like my overall well-being is taken care of, and so I think that's pretty impactful the positive impact that knowing your work team has on the health. Business leaders have known this for a long time, maureen, that investment in employee health has proven to be crucial to areas like productivity and morale. And, just to kind of close off, our findings definitely support this key message.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. And you know I'm thinking the whole time. You're talking bottom line, bottom line. If companies understand this that the more productive their employees were, the more money they are going to make, it's better for their economy, you know, but I don't think companies, I don't know. I think sometimes they forget this or they just think you know, but I don't think companies, I don't know, I think sometimes they forget this or they just think, you know, push, push, push, expect people, women, to work after hours. You know, um, when you were talking about cooking dinner and holding a child, and you know I'm thinking answering emails, you know I mean, and people are calling there. There's, there's no um filter anymore, there's no um gatekeeper. You know it's people. We can access people all the time. And you know, if women don't have healthy boundaries, uh, and nothing against women for that, but to think I might lose my job if I don't take the boss's call at eight o'clock at night after I've had, you know, a full day of working for 12 hours. You know, we have all these thoughts and and fears and and the economy and um I, there's just so much.

Speaker 1:

But interesting that preventive health care emerged as a top concern, with 62 percent of women identifying it as their most critical health care need. Women are smart. They know we need to prevent this from happening. Mental health care follows closely behind, with 52 percent of respondents expressing its importance. Interestingly, an age effect for mental health care was present, where the need for mental health support decreased progressively by age, from as many as 69% of those 18 to 34 to just 8% of women over the age of 65. What does this say?

Speaker 2:

So, excuse me, I think we have three major things that we can focus on here. And the first thing is, just like you said, us women are smart. We know that preventative care is really important and I'm proud of us. I'm proud of us for recognizing it and naming it, because that means we can now start working on it. So this is a great step forward. There's much more awareness and lessen stigma about some ailments which can be prevented or treated if caught early. Some examples, just for the team listening in conditions like breast cancer, hugely important to have awareness and screening Osteoporosis the majority of patients with osteoporosis are women and autoimmune diseases, and these can all be mitigated or managed with regular screening and early detection. So focusing on that preventative care ultimately leads to overall better health outcomes for women.

Speaker 1:

I'm sure I'd love to. I would add menopause in there perimenopause and menopause and postmenopause care for women.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Like you said in your menopause podcast, this is such a trendy topic right now and thank goodness it's about time. It's about time that we have that focus on a beautiful, natural part of a woman's progression through her health journey have awareness. You and I were kind of chatting a little bit in the green room. We'll call it about you know just a simple thing, like having a fan on a desk that awareness of what women need is so key.

Speaker 1:

And acceptance and destigmatizing it.

Speaker 2:

Yes, thank you for saying that.

Speaker 1:

Well there's an association that women who are perimenopausal or menopausal are old and done. But you know, if a woman lives to the age of 51, 52, she's going to go through menopause and likely at the peak of her career.

Speaker 2:

Well, and that's the thing you know. I think there's kind of a biphasal point in a woman's career where we as leaders, where companies, can be empowered to support women through a time where they could feel fragile or vulnerable and be empowered to know that their career is on a good trajectory, and the first be a time for maternity leave. I heard a really wonderful saying. Someone said let's not make it a maternity punishment, let's make it a parental bonus, and I thought that was beautiful.

Speaker 2:

The idea of I'm not going to be worried, that I'm taking maternity leave and my job is is in hanging in the balance. I'm going to enjoy my maternity leave because my company has me covered. I need the same in that potentially vulnerable period of menopause. I'm going through change. Right now. I'm at the peak of my career. I have decades of experience behind me. I'm the person to come to. I'm not feeling my best today, but if my company recognizes that, then again I'm not going to feel at risk. I'm going to feel empowered to share my decades of knowledge as an experienced person rather than in a vulnerable position.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely A menopause bonus there as well.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, Maureen. Can I touch on the age difference in that last?

Speaker 1:

question Is that okay?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and so this was actually super interesting to me that that distribution of need or maybe it's not need, maybe it's the perceived need to access formal mental health care and I did a little digging just to kind of get to the bottom of this and a systematic review in 2023. So just last year looked at eight cross sectional studies from five countries so really spreading across the globe. Australia, the just last year looked at eight cross-sectional studies from five countries so really spreading across the globe Australia, the US, mexico, the Netherlands and Malaysia and what was super interesting here was that they reported that the majority of their participants among older adults age 65 and up had anxiety or depression, yet they exhibited a preference for informal mental health care, care help over professional health, and so it's interesting. Is that a generational stigma? Is that an awareness or an expectation? I'm just going to carry my load.

Speaker 1:

Right, absolutely. Just tough it out, because also, you know if I'm, if I have mental health care needs, you know, maybe somebody is going to consider me weak or old or done or not able to perform my job.

Speaker 2:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

Very interesting. Yeah, we do have to dive deeper into some of these things. What role can employers play in addressing the health care needs of their female employees?

Speaker 2:

Oh, my goodness, I'm so excited about this question. Truly, I think the employers are holding the golden key to upcycling all of the negativity into this positive spin. That's how I see it. Really, employers hold a key role in addressing the health care needs of their women employees, and this past two weeks I've been traveling with work and it's been really, really eye opening. It's been fun to meet other people and I've been learning from benefit groups what they're doing for and with their female employees, and there's a myriad of options of how you can empower your female employees. Pads and tampons in the male bathroom, so that a trans person is not feeling stigmatized if they need to get access. Um, um, menstrual uh products, um, another company has taken a pledge, uh, with their senior leadership for um, menopause canada.

Speaker 2:

I have the idea, I am aware, I know who my team is and I know how to support so, so there's really really amazing things that employers can do.

Speaker 2:

The takeaway, maureen, from all of the things that I've learned in this little travel period of mine was it has to be unique.

Speaker 2:

There's not one size fits all.

Speaker 2:

Each group will have a different set of needs, given the fabric of who's working there, so employers really have to recognize and address the unique health care challenges faced by women and how much women in the workplace really rely on employee benefits due to their many responsibilities, like you've mentioned, both professionally and personally, and recognizing these needs is critical, as almost 75% of women said that they would be more likely to stay with an employer who is better supporting their healthcare needs. So this shows that there's a need for employers to tailor their benefits offerings to better cater to women in the workplace, and I mean I think you and I as clinicians know, historically, medical research has predominantly focused on male subjects and male specific health issues, and this bias extends into the understanding and treatment of diseases. We're now starting to see that shift, that the male centric view is no longer how we learn and ask good questions, and so hopefully, what can happen now is the next shift will be that workplace health programs mirror the new take on healthcare rather than this historical medical research bias.

Speaker 1:

You know I hear what you're saying so much and you know I speak to women all day long, whether it be colleagues or and we're multidisciplinary, so people that I work with work for different companies, and then the patients as well, and I often say you know, do you have benefits to cover that? And it'll be like no, our benefits are terrible and therefore they don't take the healthcare because they say I don't have the money to pay for it. You know, it's it's so important that employers support women and really take a look at what it is they need to support women with the kinds of health care that women need. And also education. I think is critical for employers to deliver to their employees, male and female, about you know, different health care subjects so that women can learn, especially about perimenopause and menopause.

Speaker 1:

I mean, social media is taking it off by storm and sometimes the answers aren't correct on social media is taking it off by storm and sometimes the answers aren't correct on social media. But patients come in and say well, on TikTok I saw this woman say blah, blah, blah and they take it as bona fide healthcare information when employers really have an opportunity to do this. I wanna talk about virtual healthcare, because I think that is a tremendous benefit, and the report mentions a significant demand for virtual care services among Canadian women. And how can these services specifically address women's health care needs?

Speaker 2:

So this is exactly what the research found. Women in the workplace find virtual care valuable, with three quarters of women surveyed agreeing that virtual care services can help increase health care support for women. We also found that two thirds 60 percent of women say they prefer virtual care when physical tests are unnecessary, necessary. And if you kind of think, maureen, okay, I've got my busy day today important podcast at 10am Then I've got to do the next thing. I'm going to pick up that laundry and you have this entire schedule packed to the hilt. And you know, like you said, we're caregivers, we're giving everybody else from ourselves. And now I'm sick, now I need to go and do something else in my day. If you have an option to say I'm going to have to cancel all of those things, I'm going to drive to the doctor, I'm going to sit. Unfortunately, there's been an emergency, so I'm going to now wait even longer. I'm going to see my doctor, then I'm going to drive to the farm.

Speaker 2:

Your whole day has been canceled, are you? Are you having to take a sick day? Are you now losing income? Again, back to that idea of the stability that you have at your work? Well, what about the idea of I can do all the things I need. I'm going to book a 15 minute appointment with Dr Smith at 1.45. She or she is going to be on time for me and I'm going to get everything I need in that 15 minute appointment. You are now looking at increased productivity and success in your day and your employer is going to notice I'm there. My days away from work are reduced. So it's really from the lens of the employer and the employee how convenient and wonderful that you could get everything you need within the convenience of your schedule.

Speaker 1:

It makes so much sense.

Speaker 2:

Right. What we do know is that studies show that women tend to put their health care needs last over the needs of families. You spoke to that earlier and definitely if you're a working mother of young children, you're taking care of elderly parents or a partner, virtual care is going to be that solution to allow you to seek medical attention in a timely fashion from the convenience of your own home and in your own time. It's fantastic, it is. It really is.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and it's such a great benefit for women. You know, one of the medical conditions that women suffer with for approximately seven years before they seek treatment, and is very common at midlife, at perimenopause, menopause and postmenopause is urinary incontinence. Right now, I want to take a moment to go to one of my sponsors to talk about a new revolutionary, non-invasive device called Moxie Patch that can help women who suffer with stressed urinary incontinence. It's incredible I don't leak urine anymore when I cough, sneeze or exercise. I have my life back. Hi, it's Maureen McGrath, registered nurse and nurse continence advisor, and that's typically what my patients say after discovering the Moxipatch, a revolutionary new device to treat stress urinary incontinence. Many of my patients are frustrated with bladder leaks and have tried everything from pads to Kegel exercises before finding Moxie Patch. Moxie Patch is a small external device that is ultra-discrete, effective, reusable and eco-friendly. It helps you to live life to the fullest, free from the worries and limitations of bladder leaks, from stressed urinary incontinence. For more information or to order your Moxie Patch, go to MoxiePatchcom today and discover a new level of confidence. That's MoxiePatchcom, because you deserve to feel secure. Moxie Patch is also available at select retailers and on Amazoncom.

Speaker 1:

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Speaker 1:

Okay, we're back now and we are talking with Dr Karolina Filipowska. She is with Teladoc Health Canada. We're talking about the unique healthcare needs for women in the workplace and we were just talking about virtual healthcare services, which I've utilized. It's amazing. You don't have to park your car. You know, some families may have one car and their partner may have taken that off to work that day. They might have to Uber to the doctors and maybe they can't get an Uber. I mean, there are just so many moving parts that occur when a woman has to leave her home to go and make a doctor's visit, even for a prescription refill, when you can do that in the comfort of your home. So we talked a little bit about work quality and productivity and overall wellbeing and this is like this perfect cake mix. If we can get all the parts right, we can get you know a thing of beauty. Really, how do we, you know, get? How do we go from the report to educating the employers to integrate virtual care into their benefits packages effectively?

Speaker 2:

So, maureen, I love that you've said education. One of my fellowships is in medical education and I have this true passion about the idea of educating medically both people who are clinicians like ourselves, and also the population, and truly the idea starts with knowledge. So that first idea is comprehensive benefits are foundational to success and engagement at work. I've lived a life where at some point in my life, I've had benefits, great benefits, and honestly, maureen, I felt like Oprah at home. I'm like and you get a massage and you can go to the dentist, and then I had some periods without it and I really felt like I was budgeting, I was looking at my wellness and I was calculating against money. How can you put a cost on your health? That's a little bit backwards. And so certainly I can tell you that comprehensive benefits are foundational to success and engagement at work. It is benefiting. The benefits don't just benefit the employee, the benefits benefit the employer. I promise you, more than half of the women we surveyed agreed that better health care services would lead to reduced absenteeism and I think we talked about that getting the virtual piece in place but also overall being well. If you have that package that allows you to access things you need. You're going to have a better immune system, you're going to have less sick days just because you're feeling good about yourself and therefore, from the work, the workplace lens, there's more work, continuous workflow, productivity, less stress.

Speaker 2:

One thing I can say is you know, at Teladoc Health, we offer a comprehensive suite of mental health services. This includes access to mental health care with psychologists and therapists of your own choosing, a mental health navigator. So back to that idea we discussed earlier of navigating the system to help people find their way through the complex health health care system, a digital wellness app and an employee and family assistance program. I'm kind of proud of that suite of services and I'm more proud that last year we surveyed our team and said what do we all need? And guess what we weren't doing? We weren't doing it optimally last year.

Speaker 2:

We surveyed our team and said what do we all need? And guess what? We weren't doing it optimally last year. So we've had this opportunity to improve and give what people want. Employees with access to these kinds of services, maureen, will be able to easily get the care they need when they need it, and we know that that's going to improve their mental health and their overall well-being and, interestingly, more than half of the women surveyed also said that more comprehensive health care services through benefits simply helps them feel successful at work, and when women have access to adequate health care services, they are empowered to excel and make meaningful contributions to their work.

Speaker 1:

And I think it gives them peace of mind as well. Just before we wrap up, I just want to ask you and thank you for the description of Teladoc Health Canada how that all works, which is awesome. You know there's a hot subject which is approximately one in five Canadians lack access to a family doctor, particularly for women's health care. Can you discuss the implications of that? What does that mean?

Speaker 2:

So this is actually a heartbreaking statistic to hear. One of the things that I think about when I think about a family doctor is your safe haven. This person is experienced, they know you. You know we say in medicine from cradle to grave, so they know you through your entire healthcare journey. Hopefully, when you're speaking to your family doctor, they're talking to you about your sexual health, about how safe you are at home, about what's going on in your finances, in addition to we just heard your commercial about stressing continence very important topics.

Speaker 2:

So, in addition to all of those things, this safe haven person is your go-to when you're in need, and the fact that one in five Canadians do not have access to that fundamental cog is frightening, truly frightening. And the next thing is how do you therefore get access to other care? So if I need a dermatologist, if I need a gynecologist, how do I get to them when I haven't had the referral from my family doctor? So the idea that we don't have that in place is scary. And one of the things I'm allowed to share this Teladoc is actually partnered in a business to government partnership with Newfoundland and Labrador, and 65,000 unattached patients in that province have access to family doctors through Teladoc Health Canada and we're seeing huge changes in complex care, patients living healthier lives.

Speaker 1:

That's amazing. That is fantastic. We need to have that all across the country.

Speaker 2:

Agreed, totally agreed.

Speaker 1:

Dr Carolina, thank you so much. We've talked about so much, we've touched on so many different subjects and it's so important, but somebody may want to read the survey. Is there a way for people to access that?

Speaker 2:

There absolutely is. What I'll do is, if it's okay with you, I'll send that on to you by email and then we can share that in the podcast, the link. I am so appreciative of this time. I think you and I both connected on this true passion of empowering Canadians to live their healthiest lives and to be aware of women's needs, and I just, I just am so appreciative that we've had this opportunity to talk about educating people what women need and how employers can meet those needs.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and I think, navigating the system, personalized healthcare. You know we're at a pivotal time in healthcare, especially for women's healthcare, but you know the journey has begun. We have a long way to go but we can do it if we commit to it. And you know we have voices like yours that are willing to speak to it and dive into the research, and so I really appreciate you coming on the podcast.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, Maureen.

Speaker 1:

You are so welcome. That was Deputy Medical Director of Teladoc Health Canada, dr Karolina Filipowska. The website is teladochealthca and I'm Maureen McGrath and thank you so much for tuning in to my podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in. I'm Maureen McGrath and you have been listening to the Sunday Night Health Show podcast. If you want to hear this podcast or any other segment again, feel free to go to iTunes, spotify or Google Play or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. You can always email me, nursetalk at hotmailcom or text the show 604-765-9287. That's 604-765-9287. Or head on over to my website for more information. Maureenmcgrathcom, it's been my pleasure to spend this time with you.

Speaker 1:

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