GRETCHEN SCHREIBER: Disability representation in books & working for Reese Witherspoon

This author interview is SO MUCH FUN. Like, I literally hit my head on a wall while filming because I was laughing so hard (and I left it in, for your entertainment, obviously). Gretchen Schreiber is the author of "Ellie Haycock is Totally Normal", which is a YA novel about a teenager with VACTERLs. It's a condition Gretchen knows about well because she has it too. In this conversation, we talk about disability representation, mining your own story for the sake of fiction, working for Reese Witherspoon at Hello Sunshine, and BTS, as we often do. I hope you love Gretchen as much as I do after this conversation!

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Transcript

00;00;00;04 - 00;00;07;12
Speaker 1
It's a little like when you have it on your book. How are people going to ask things? She's like kind of a big deal in the book. Just a little bit. A little bit.

00;00;08;08 - 00;00;32;24
Speaker 2
Oh, this is going to be the best Hi, and welcome to Literary Hype. I am Stephanie here, literary hype woman. And today's author conversation was an absolute tres like I don't say that lightly. A lot of these authors that I get to talk to are super fun, but it doesn't always happen that before you can even start asking questions, you've already feel like you've made a best friend.

00;00;32;24 - 00;01;08;29
Speaker 2
And that is for sure. Gretchen. Trevor. Before we even started filming, I complimented her eye shadow and she brought up Tia, so I knew for sure she was my people and that we were about to have a really great time. And we did. Gretchen Schreiber is the author of Ellie Haycock Is Totally Normal, which is a wonderful wonderful book about a teenager and her dealing with disabilities and romance and kind of coming of age and dealing with her parents and it's a lot of very teenage emotions, but also through the lens of someone with a disability and who's spending a lot of time in a hospital, which we honestly need more books like this so

00;01;08;29 - 00;01;28;19
Speaker 2
reading Gretchen has a really cool job, which we do get into, but it might have something to do with a little blurb on the corner. So definitely stay tuned and check out this conversation with Gretchen Schreiber welcome to Literary Hype. It is so exciting to have you on it for so many reasons. I feel like we're going to be besties in like the next 30 minutes.

00;01;28;19 - 00;01;29;13
Speaker 1
It's already started.

00;01;29;13 - 00;01;39;24
Speaker 2
It's already started. Because you are also a Beats fan. If you thought well scrolling and saw that you had Micro Cosmos, what is your favorite Beats song and who's your bias.

00;01;40;19 - 00;01;54;03
Speaker 1
Oh my God, that's a me. And I feel like the correct answer and the only answer for this. Well, there are two, but the song that got me into beats was my friend to drag me along to Beats concert. So like, yeah, I know. It's like it was a great.

00;01;54;03 - 00;01;54;27
Speaker 3
Way to be introduced.

00;01;54;27 - 00;01;58;12
Speaker 1
Honestly. So Spring Day is my favorite.

00;01;59;09 - 00;02;00;11
Speaker 2
You just like to cry.

00;02;00;12 - 00;02;28;01
Speaker 1
I just like to cry. But also like because I saw the music video at the concert and I was like, you know, I think it's spelled differently, but that's like just like the idea, the ones who walk away from homeless, which is this very famous sci fi short story. And my friend, like, I will never forget, she like sitting here watching, like, you know, enjoying the show, and she, like, pauses and, like, turns and is like, how do you know that short story?

00;02;28;12 - 00;02;43;08
Speaker 1
Well, I was like, doesn't everybody know the ones who look like from us? And she was like, because the video is based on that short. So I was like, I'm in, I'm in you got a literary connection. So that's like my favorite.

00;02;43;19 - 00;02;46;14
Speaker 3
Idol, however, is probably like my most.

00;02;46;14 - 00;02;47;13
Speaker 1
Like, jam.

00;02;47;19 - 00;02;51;02
Speaker 3
I play it all. It's my, like, hype song. Any time I have to go do an interview, I'm.

00;02;51;02 - 00;02;55;22
Speaker 1
Like, Idol, come on. My bias is Djimon Pucky mean.

00;02;56;05 - 00;03;03;01
Speaker 2
Gypsy because he's one of my two biases. I mean, are there the two sides of my person?

00;03;03;01 - 00;03;07;12
Speaker 1
I want him like, I feel like R.E.M. is like just a gateway bias. And then the people who stick with.

00;03;07;12 - 00;03;09;03
Speaker 3
Him, like, it's it's deep.

00;03;09;12 - 00;03;19;26
Speaker 2
He's it's the two sides of my personality, the bossy book nerd who doesn't like seafood and kind of accidentally breaks stuff all the time, but also love who falls down all the time and is really sassy and.

00;03;20;04 - 00;03;23;07
Speaker 1
Just loves crabs. Like, not that weird crap.

00;03;26;18 - 00;03;28;23
Speaker 1
Hates seafood, loves crabs.

00;03;29;09 - 00;03;30;28
Speaker 2
He's just such an enigma.

00;03;31;14 - 00;03;34;00
Speaker 1
It really is. He's so I don't know.

00;03;34;09 - 00;03;35;13
Speaker 2
Like, what about my chef?

00;03;36;03 - 00;03;39;18
Speaker 1
Yeah, I would I would watch that that that would be.

00;03;39;18 - 00;03;40;05
Speaker 3
An episode.

00;03;40;05 - 00;03;46;10
Speaker 2
Like just I did a display at my bookstore of books that he recommends and they sell so fast with his picture, you.

00;03;46;28 - 00;03;55;08
Speaker 1
Know? So I think my, my biased, my record would be sugar. Meaning that me, I feel like those are my two sides of myself of.

00;03;55;08 - 00;03;57;21
Speaker 3
Like, I mean, they're like tortured artists just continually.

00;03;57;21 - 00;04;01;08
Speaker 1
Creating or I'm just like, Hey, everybody, I'm here to make you smile.

00;04;03;01 - 00;04;12;04
Speaker 2
See, there's so much connection between K-pop and beats and books and authors. We all are obsessed with fictional or with men that will never know we exist.

00;04;12;09 - 00;04;15;07
Speaker 1
Correct? I mean, my group my.

00;04;15;07 - 00;04;17;02
Speaker 3
Writer group chat of, you know.

00;04;17;12 - 00;04;22;15
Speaker 1
Of every Internet person's fame right now is all people.

00;04;22;28 - 00;04;24;01
Speaker 3
And so are.

00;04;24;01 - 00;04;29;14
Speaker 1
We talking about beats? Are we talking about writing? Are we talking about both? Probably. Probably.

00;04;29;14 - 00;04;34;29
Speaker 2
That's why there are so many books that have K-pop stars in them now. Yeah. We need more conversations about this or.

00;04;34;29 - 00;04;37;20
Speaker 1
The number of people who think beats and their acknowledgment of.

00;04;37;22 - 00;04;38;06
Speaker 2
Christina.

00;04;38;06 - 00;04;47;23
Speaker 1
Lauren. Because, you know, Lauren, my friend Rebecca Fabian has her mind does not necessarily have beats in the acknowledgments, but the first line.

00;04;47;23 - 00;04;47;28
Speaker 3
Of the.

00;04;47;28 - 00;04;51;28
Speaker 1
Acknowledgments has like two beats shout outs.

00;04;52;18 - 00;04;53;05
Speaker 2
I mean, I have to go.

00;04;53;13 - 00;05;01;24
Speaker 1
You should you should look at it because, like, it's a deep cut. It's like a it's a strong power thank you moment. And and then in that two day moment.

00;05;01;28 - 00;05;03;29
Speaker 2
Oh, like, oh, not today's my channel.

00;05;04;00 - 00;05;06;23
Speaker 1
I mean, also great. Like, oh, sister, you know.

00;05;06;24 - 00;05;08;00
Speaker 2
Natalie, I don't.

00;05;08;00 - 00;05;12;13
Speaker 1
Know anyway, the perfect books.

00;05;12;18 - 00;05;14;08
Speaker 2
Books? You have a book?

00;05;14;19 - 00;05;15;22
Speaker 1
Mm. I do.

00;05;15;29 - 00;05;16;21
Speaker 2
Anyways.

00;05;17;07 - 00;05;18;04
Speaker 1
And back.

00;05;18;22 - 00;05;24;02
Speaker 2
So for anybody who hasn't already seen Ali Haycock is totally normal. Just a little bit about what this book is about.

00;05;24;12 - 00;05;26;09
Speaker 1
Yeah. So easiest way to say is.

00;05;26;09 - 00;05;30;07
Speaker 3
That is Breakfast Club and hospital would not know. I've never watched the Breakfast Club.

00;05;31;21 - 00;05;41;10
Speaker 1
The longer way to say is it about as a girl who obviously is named Ellie, who keeps her high school life and her hospital life very, very separate. And what happens.

00;05;41;10 - 00;05;46;02
Speaker 3
When a new illness and her back to the hospital and it takes a new group of friends and a new love interest.

00;05;46;13 - 00;05;54;02
Speaker 1
To help her convince herself that it's not only possible to mix both of your lives, but also totally normal. Can you tell I wrote that for marketing?

00;05;55;08 - 00;05;56;17
Speaker 2
What gives you that idea?

00;05;57;04 - 00;06;01;04
Speaker 1
But I guess, no, that's what it's about. It's it's the girl trying to figure.

00;06;01;04 - 00;06;04;11
Speaker 3
Out what it means to be normal in an abnormal situation.

00;06;04;11 - 00;06;13;06
Speaker 2
So something that I loved right off the get go as the Jack does stamp that. Did it stem?

00;06;13;12 - 00;06;21;27
Speaker 1
Oh, I'm sorry. I feel like I, like, throw Jack under the bus making it an accident, or is that like the little bit? Mostly because like my.

00;06;21;27 - 00;06;23;29
Speaker 3
Forensics coach read it and she was like.

00;06;24;00 - 00;06;27;21
Speaker 1
Who is Jack? And I was like, Jack is just an amalgamation.

00;06;27;21 - 00;06;29;17
Speaker 3
Of every speaker that I ever met.

00;06;30;08 - 00;06;31;02
Speaker 1
It was a boy.

00;06;31;08 - 00;06;32;16
Speaker 2
OK, there's a very big difference.

00;06;32;16 - 00;06;33;12
Speaker 1
A big difference.

00;06;33;12 - 00;06;34;25
Speaker 2
Boy and girl story speaker.

00;06;34;25 - 00;06;35;17
Speaker 1
Correct? Correct, correct.

00;06;35;17 - 00;06;40;18
Speaker 2
But I was very obsessed. It was in my username, OK? It was a queen was part of my username. In high school.

00;06;40;21 - 00;06;44;07
Speaker 1
And like and some like I mean, I had like the boys.

00;06;44;07 - 00;06;50;29
Speaker 3
Who I knew who did extend for like making up their sources and like, you know, quoting Doctor Gretchen Faber said blah, blah, blah.

00;06;50;29 - 00;06;55;18
Speaker 1
You know, like, I mean, like no nonsense. Yeah. Like doing nonsense and speaking.

00;06;55;19 - 00;06;57;27
Speaker 3
For however long they had to do it. So that was kind of I.

00;06;57;27 - 00;07;03;01
Speaker 1
Was like, that's like that's a Jack vibe. He's not a bad guy. He's just a guy guy.

00;07;03;06 - 00;07;08;00
Speaker 2
I it makes sense. But so few people know about STEM. Yeah. And so I get very excited.

00;07;08;05 - 00;07;12;28
Speaker 3
I feel like debate and speech is such like a big topic for way.

00;07;14;15 - 00;07;16;15
Speaker 1
And as somebody who was both a policy.

00;07;16;15 - 00;07;19;23
Speaker 3
Debater and a Lincoln-Douglas debater and did speech and did all of these.

00;07;19;23 - 00;07;21;20
Speaker 1
Things, so few people actually.

00;07;21;20 - 00;07;23;15
Speaker 3
Know what debate and speech.

00;07;23;19 - 00;07;30;20
Speaker 1
Programs actually are or how they function. And I'm just like, any time someone is like, I know what this says. And I was like, Oh my God, I'm so glad.

00;07;30;26 - 00;07;38;23
Speaker 2
It made me so happy. So Jack is her kind of boyfriend as she's going back to the hospital.

00;07;38;24 - 00;07;39;05
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;07;40;04 - 00;07;41;21
Speaker 2
But he doesn't really know what's going on.

00;07;42;00 - 00;07;44;19
Speaker 1
Yep. And she is 100% never going to tell him.

00;07;44;20 - 00;07;52;21
Speaker 2
Talk a little bit about the reality of trying to keep those two aspects of your life separate when you're going through these crazy medical situations.

00;07;52;27 - 00;07;53;10
Speaker 1
Well, one.

00;07;53;10 - 00;08;06;19
Speaker 3
For me, it was very easy because my hospital was 8 hours away from my hometown. So like there was no way that anyone from my high school was going to, like, show up randomly at the place where I was like having the surgery.

00;08;07;01 - 00;08;07;21
Speaker 1
But I think it was.

00;08;07;21 - 00;08;25;28
Speaker 3
Also just one of those things of like I mean, there's like a very popular saying in high school when you do like sports or you do like something that's like to those who never done it, there's like no explanation possible to those who've done it, like no explanation needed. And it's kind of like that in the hospital of like.

00;08;26;06 - 00;08;27;14
Speaker 1
To those who've done it, I don't need to.

00;08;27;14 - 00;08;28;26
Speaker 3
Explain this process to you.

00;08;29;02 - 00;08;30;16
Speaker 1
To those who've never done it, I.

00;08;30;16 - 00;08;38;09
Speaker 3
Don't even know where to start. Like, it is such and it's not that I don't know where to start, it's that I don't know where to start. And not.

00;08;38;09 - 00;08;40;22
Speaker 1
Have people.

00;08;40;22 - 00;08;53;17
Speaker 3
Start looking at me differently of like, Oh my gosh, that's so sad or That's so hard. Or I never would have been able to do that. I would have killed myself if I were you like. And so immediately you sort.

00;08;53;17 - 00;08;53;29
Speaker 1
Of.

00;08;54;08 - 00;09;17;12
Speaker 3
Once you start opening up about it, you sort of willingly. This sounds really gross. You willingly place yourself in a position to be made lower than your friends and to be like looked down on and pitied and all of these like moments that really, Ali has no desire to be. Like, she doesn't want to be seen as broken or needs to be fixed.

00;09;17;12 - 00;09;32;10
Speaker 3
Or pitied. Like, she just wants to be seen as like one of the guys. I mean, one of the people one of her friends was like somebody who's competent at what she does and is really great at speech and fits in at high school and has her friends and like.

00;09;32;20 - 00;09;33;26
Speaker 1
Yeah, I go to high school once a.

00;09;33;26 - 00;09;35;12
Speaker 3
Year and it's fine. Everybody, no one.

00;09;35;12 - 00;09;38;22
Speaker 1
Look over here and I was like, something really big for me.

00;09;38;22 - 00;09;54;19
Speaker 3
Too. I like that's really hard to talk about things that I don't know how to communicate that this was not quite the terrible pit of despair that people imagine it to be.

00;09;54;19 - 00;09;55;19
Speaker 1
Like, I have a.

00;09;55;19 - 00;10;01;14
Speaker 3
Very complex had a relationship with the hospital, mostly because of how I think people expect me to have.

00;10;01;14 - 00;10;02;28
Speaker 1
A relationship with the hospital.

00;10;03;08 - 00;10;17;22
Speaker 3
And that is not my relationship with the hospital. It's my relationship with certain procedures as but like I have very little fear of hospital or medical like procedures or being like, let's go. Like I'm often the person who I'm like, you.

00;10;17;22 - 00;10;20;02
Speaker 1
Have a medical crisis going on right now and you need to be.

00;10;20;02 - 00;10;34;27
Speaker 3
Comforted. Do not come to me because my first question is being me be like, OK, so what's going on? And like I'm going to get right, right down to business. Of like, was the doctor say, what's the prognosis? Do you need a second opinion? When are you having surgery? What's going to happen? Like what are the scans?

00;10;34;27 - 00;10;38;13
Speaker 1
What are the test like? Very clinical and people are like, oh.

00;10;38;26 - 00;10;45;04
Speaker 3
And I'm like, I'm sorry, this is just like, this is where I go because like, for me, this is just normal.

00;10;46;01 - 00;10;48;17
Speaker 1
That's so anyway, awesome. Ryan And you got some.

00;10;48;17 - 00;10;50;29
Speaker 3
Ryan in me sometimes.

00;10;52;19 - 00;10;54;05
Speaker 1
And my best day is I'm.

00;10;54;05 - 00;10;54;29
Speaker 3
Ryan.

00;10;54;29 - 00;11;12;07
Speaker 1
And my friend often will say like, Gretchen, why didn't you warn me that this was what this was like? This test was and I was like, I thought you knew what an MRI was. I thought you knew you were going to be going in a tube and lay in there for, like, 40 minutes while, like, things go on, you know?

00;11;12;10 - 00;11;13;21
Speaker 2
So it was so loud.

00;11;13;21 - 00;11;22;19
Speaker 1
They give you earplugs, but like, I thought you knew. Sorry. It would have told you. What have been your child life, your hospital adult life specialist.

00;11;22;26 - 00;11;35;21
Speaker 2
You talked about, like, you minding your own medical files for inspiration. Was that, like, cathartic for you? Like, what was the emotional process for you? Kind of putting your story into a fictional format in this way?

00;11;35;24 - 00;11;43;13
Speaker 1
I mean, I wish I could say it was good, but it's like weird, cathartic, but like it was mostly like, I know that I need a.

00;11;43;13 - 00;12;01;05
Speaker 3
Medical backbone for this story. And I kind of know that, like, the goal of the story isn't it's not necessarily about a happily ever after medically for either either character for well, for any of them. I mean, maybe Lewis as.

00;12;01;05 - 00;12;02;09
Speaker 1
A Lewis.

00;12;02;09 - 00;12;03;07
Speaker 3
Was always going to have a happily.

00;12;03;07 - 00;12;07;08
Speaker 1
Ever after. Like we love him. But that was always in his cards, you know?

00;12;07;08 - 00;12;34;16
Speaker 3
But like that it wasn't really about them getting cures or getting to the end of this. Procedure. It was really about them getting OK with the fact that this is where their lives are. And so and like getting OK with being at the hospital or like living this way was sort of the goal. And so I chose something like from my own medical file that had that sort of like moment of well, we.

00;12;34;16 - 00;12;43;26
Speaker 1
Have we did this thing and then we had the surgery and then it didn't work. And what now? And you're still sick and you know, you're sort of.

00;12;43;26 - 00;12;49;26
Speaker 3
Still sort of trying to triage it as best you can with like a medical high, the physical.

00;12;49;26 - 00;12;53;10
Speaker 2
And you touched on in the somewhere in this I'm.

00;12;53;10 - 00;12;53;27
Speaker 1
Probably.

00;12;54;11 - 00;13;13;25
Speaker 2
Somewhere somewhere I saw something about you talking about seeing yourself in a book. Talk a little bit about the importance of that for not just for you as an author and like putting your story out there like this. But for people who are also in medical situations that need a little bit of encouragement that they're not unusual.

00;13;13;25 - 00;13;16;21
Speaker 1
Yeah. OK, so I'm going to start this up big and we'll go small.

00;13;17;23 - 00;13;21;04
Speaker 3
And prove that I am once again just five tick tock sounds in a trenchcoat.

00;13;22;20 - 00;13;30;06
Speaker 1
You know, that tick tock that you know that tick tack sound that's like, oh, look, books that aren't written.

00;13;30;06 - 00;13;37;01
Speaker 3
By people like me and I still enjoy them. That is literally me walking into every bookstore and just holding my hands up and going, Here we go.

00;13;39;03 - 00;13;40;27
Speaker 1
You know, I didn't.

00;13;40;28 - 00;13;54;23
Speaker 3
Grow up with anyone in fiction who remotely looks like me and had a happy ending. And by happy ending, I mean, like, not even, like, fell in love, had an adventure. I mean, like.

00;13;54;23 - 00;13;55;04
Speaker 1
Just, like.

00;13;55;13 - 00;13;57;14
Speaker 3
Made it to the end of the page. Still breathing.

00;13;58;08 - 00;13;59;21
Speaker 1
My leg.

00;13;59;21 - 00;14;03;16
Speaker 3
That's like quite the reality of of like, the.

00;14;03;16 - 00;14;12;07
Speaker 1
Situation and so and the stuff that we have, like, it's changing.

00;14;12;07 - 00;14;13;00
Speaker 3
Slowly.

00;14;13;11 - 00;14;19;17
Speaker 1
As long as you're not visibly disabled, and in which case we're still walking backwards.

00;14;21;18 - 00;14;22;16
Speaker 3
I got a lot of feelings.

00;14;23;25 - 00;14;25;14
Speaker 1
And I am not great.

00;14;25;25 - 00;14;28;18
Speaker 2
Are you, are you that girl and mean girls? I just I.

00;14;28;18 - 00;14;31;09
Speaker 1
Just have a lot of feeling pleased that I could make.

00;14;31;09 - 00;14;33;10
Speaker 2
A cake with rain. Allison Butterfly.

00;14;33;18 - 00;14;40;03
Speaker 1
She doesn't even go here. But so when I sort of sat.

00;14;40;03 - 00;14;43;28
Speaker 3
Down, I I feel like most contemporary writers right now.

00;14;44;20 - 00;14;53;22
Speaker 1
Bazaar is a contemporary writer, and I was a fantasy writer first, and I was like, I will write a contemporary book Over My Dead Body. I'm not dead.

00;14;54;16 - 00;14;56;04
Speaker 2
Oops. Are you are you sure?

00;14;56;05 - 00;14;57;00
Speaker 1
All right. I mean.

00;14;57;12 - 00;14;58;06
Speaker 2
The Matrix and.

00;14;58;06 - 00;15;01;23
Speaker 3
Maybe the matrix. You know, I might be just too hard to kill you know, that whole.

00;15;01;23 - 00;15;02;24
Speaker 1
Baptize twice thing.

00;15;03;07 - 00;15;03;23
Speaker 2
There you go.

00;15;03;23 - 00;15;04;19
Speaker 3
Sorry, ma'am. That was.

00;15;04;19 - 00;15;10;25
Speaker 1
Joke that but I had this idea, and.

00;15;10;25 - 00;15;17;07
Speaker 3
I told my very good friend, who is a contemporary writer, and she was like, I'm going to hold you to this, but you have to write this book.

00;15;18;04 - 00;15;24;06
Speaker 1
And I went, Oh, no, I was going to love this book because it's not going to be happy and OK. And so they didn't.

00;15;24;06 - 00;15;48;07
Speaker 3
Have to be. And so when I really sat down to write Ellie in like a very serious manner and not just like, well, here's an idea. Here's like a chapter, half a chapter or a character idea. I made a pact with myself that Ellie needed to be somebody that my 16 year old self would read and like essentially like pass the sniff test.

00;15;48;07 - 00;15;54;07
Speaker 3
Like, even if like, obviously Ellie and six year old Gretchen are not the same human being, surprisingly.

00;15;55;17 - 00;15;59;06
Speaker 1
And I know, I know surprising I'm shocked.

00;15;59;22 - 00;16;20;19
Speaker 3
Everyone is I needed to be able to look at it and say, Oh, I actually understand what's going on here and I understand these feelings and I'm not going to shy away from the sort of complicated not always OK feelings that you can have as a teenager.

00;16;20;27 - 00;16;23;17
Speaker 1
Because I think it's important.

00;16;24;11 - 00;16;29;00
Speaker 3
As like disabled people that like, OK, here's my soapbox.

00;16;29;11 - 00;16;35;21
Speaker 1
I set out an overall I think often we we talked a lot.

00;16;35;21 - 00;17;16;07
Speaker 3
About in diverse literature right now about joy and the idea of like having joy. And I think there is nothing more important than having books about joy for a diverse audiences. But I also think for disabled people, we have been denied the right to own our own pain and our the painful moments and painful ideals of our lives have been mined and reproduced and profited on by people who are not us and spread and had put out into the market really unhealthy ideas of what it means to be disabled what it means to write a disabled book, and what it means to live a disabled life.

00;17;16;17 - 00;17;41;05
Speaker 3
I think as much as like I say this a lot in the marketing for my next book, as much as Ellie was about seeing myself in a very real way, my second book is about remembering that you can also dream because I think both are important. I think it's important for disabled writers to be able to explore the the dark and sometimes hard emotions that happen.

00;17;41;05 - 00;18;04;03
Speaker 3
I mean, a lot of Ellie's journey is also rooted in the fact that, like, the things that she wants to do in life are not things that have ever been done or not I shouldn't say ever been done, have been done by very few people who look like her. And so the idea of being an actress is is not just hard and that she understands that being an actress is hard, auditioning is hard.

00;18;04;03 - 00;18;22;07
Speaker 3
You get told no, a lot. But like then you add this layer on top of it of your disabled. And we all know that like 99% of roles that even are disabled are played by able bodied people who are made to pretend to be disabled. And so we're like doubly like you.

00;18;22;08 - 00;18;25;11
Speaker 1
Can't play yourself and you can't play normal people.

00;18;25;17 - 00;18;40;10
Speaker 3
So what can you do anyway? Again, soapbox so yeah, like it was just really important for me to sit here and think that, like if we're going to have an issue, but if I'm going to write a quote unquote issue book that.

00;18;41;04 - 00;18;41;21
Speaker 1
I'm, I'm.

00;18;41;23 - 00;18;55;27
Speaker 3
I put it all there, I'm going to be messy and a teenager and like just really rooted in something that feels like I can see myself and the catharsis.

00;18;56;10 - 00;18;56;21
Speaker 1
That you.

00;18;56;21 - 00;19;08;13
Speaker 3
Mentioned and that is like both good and bad. Like there are so many there's so many messages. I was just like going through them today, even though they say, don't read your reviews and don't do it.

00;19;08;13 - 00;19;12;12
Speaker 1
Authors don't do it. But I was reading my reviews and pretty much like.

00;19;12;12 - 00;19;24;11
Speaker 3
A lot of like chronically ill or disabled people were reading. It was like it's like one of the first times that like I can relate to this like whole heartedly and like that is so incredible. And then it's also.

00;19;24;18 - 00;19;25;22
Speaker 1
Heartbreaking.

00;19;26;00 - 00;19;31;02
Speaker 3
To watch people be like, I can connect or Ellie's such a Debbie Downer or Ali's such a.

00;19;31;02 - 00;19;42;15
Speaker 1
Bitch leg and I'm just like, OK, that I didn't need to see. Well, this is why they say don't read reviews anyway. So it's like it is cathartic and it's like.

00;19;42;15 - 00;20;09;05
Speaker 3
Cathartic and that like wed really believes in the book and like, you know, has been really, really great. Like, I've heard so many horror stories from people, from like diverse individuals talking about their publishers. It's not like showing up for them or not doing the things for them. And like, I can't say enough nice things about Aylin at Wednesday, who's my editor and like, has just been a really great guide and everything that she has has suggested has been.

00;20;09;05 - 00;20;10;11
Speaker 1
Additive to.

00;20;10;11 - 00;20;13;04
Speaker 3
The narrative and never once has she like.

00;20;13;20 - 00;20;14;05
Speaker 1
Has she.

00;20;14;05 - 00;20;15;18
Speaker 3
Said something that would make me go.

00;20;15;18 - 00;20;17;16
Speaker 1
Oh, I'm going to have to have a.

00;20;17;16 - 00;20;27;20
Speaker 3
Really hard conversation now, you know, and has been very open of like, if I say something wrong, please tell me. I do not mean like please educate me. And she's like, also, I know that that's bad.

00;20;27;26 - 00;20;34;20
Speaker 1
But I like to get it and I get it. Like, you're never going to get educational unless they do it. Like, unfortunately, sometimes when you're like the first.

00;20;34;20 - 00;20;45;29
Speaker 3
Couple people through the door, you get like the double the double whammy of being both like the first person to like batter down a door and then be like, OK, everybody gather around. Let's have a story time now. Like, anyway, I'm talking a lot.

00;20;46;19 - 00;20;47;29
Speaker 1
You're just like, yeah.

00;20;48;04 - 00;20;57;13
Speaker 2
I mean, it's a Val, you're making so many valid points that people need to hear and need to think about in the landscape of fiction, in the landscape of books and the landscape.

00;20;57;13 - 00;21;01;01
Speaker 1
Of life. Yeah, it's so important. You know, I think like when I first.

00;21;01;01 - 00;21;05;17
Speaker 3
Started writing Disabled People and I decided to make 90% of the cast.

00;21;05;24 - 00;21;13;05
Speaker 1
Disabled, my friend went there that many people have disabilities and I was like, and as I looked at it, I was like, How many.

00;21;13;05 - 00;21;21;01
Speaker 3
People do you know who are disabled besides me? And then she started thinking about it and she went, That was a dumb question. And I went, Yeah.

00;21;21;18 - 00;21;25;01
Speaker 1
I guess. Yeah, but it's like, yeah, it's like one of those things that I think sometimes.

00;21;25;01 - 00;21;37;03
Speaker 3
We don't think about it because I think a lot of times disabled people, we do a good job of masking and we do much like Ellie, don't look at us. We are fine. We are just like you.

00;21;37;04 - 00;21;38;15
Speaker 2
Nothing to see, nothing to see.

00;21;38;19 - 00;21;40;21
Speaker 1
We are not the humans you're looking for.

00;21;40;27 - 00;21;58;02
Speaker 2
And you touch on a little bit of Ali's mess. One of those messy relationships is with her mother off. So talk a little bit about crafting that and the reality of that situation of like, mom's putting your story out there and you're trying to own your own life.

00;21;58;02 - 00;22;01;10
Speaker 3
Yeah, OK. So first I have to say this because I feel like I say this all the time.

00;22;02;06 - 00;22;03;24
Speaker 1
Ali's mom is not my mother.

00;22;04;02 - 00;22;30;12
Speaker 3
Ali's mom is not my mother. My mom and I have a great relationship. It was very much shaped by the hospital. We were thrown together a lot for this for my entire life. Like, you know, Dad had to work because again, like, much like Ellie, again, they are not my parents. This book is not my life. They say my dad had the good the job, but the good insurance.

00;22;30;17 - 00;22;34;00
Speaker 1
So he got to stay home and work. And my mom and I went to the hospital.

00;22;35;06 - 00;22;36;20
Speaker 3
But for Ellie, I.

00;22;36;20 - 00;22;40;04
Speaker 1
Knew that I kind of wanted the blog had always been.

00;22;40;04 - 00;22;50;11
Speaker 3
A part of the book in some form or another. So I had written it originally as a blog, and then I did Pitch Wars, and it became a newsletter. And then I saw the book and it became a blog again.

00;22;51;02 - 00;22;51;28
Speaker 1
And then it became an.

00;22;51;28 - 00;23;15;03
Speaker 3
Actual blog on the page that was not included in the original. Like those like the biggest change we made during the editorial process and the one thing that I really wanted to sort of show and the one thing we worked on a lot was Ellie and her mom's relationship throughout the story and how they just sort of keep heading at each other until you have this big explosion.

00;23;16;08 - 00;23;37;28
Speaker 3
I think the one thing for me, I don't I know it's very easy and with all due respect, you can read Ellie's mom is the ultimate antagonist of the book. But I also think and I can't remember because when you're an author and you write 5 million versions of your book, sometimes like you forget which ghost draft lives and which one is actually dead.

00;23;39;14 - 00;23;59;29
Speaker 3
Well, like the first victim of Abel is our parents. And so a lot of what Ali's mom talks about is actually inspired by my mom. My mom did lose her job because her boss gave her an ultimatum of you can go to your daughter's surgery or you can come to work on Monday.

00;24;02;25 - 00;24;23;06
Speaker 3
Yeah. You know, she had friends who didn't know how to relate to her child because they were having happy mom times. And she's like, well, I'm going back to the hospital with my. Yeah, I had surgery at six weeks old. So like, you know, you get out of the hospital, it's like we are making major life like major life decisions out of the gate.

00;24;25;14 - 00;24;37;28
Speaker 3
And so I wanted to provide that context of like, this is a very real experience. I think her mom and because I ended up, you know, we're all on tech.

00;24;37;28 - 00;24;39;12
Speaker 1
Talk now, apparently.

00;24;40;17 - 00;24;41;02
Speaker 2
For now.

00;24;41;03 - 00;24;42;10
Speaker 1
For now, for now.

00;24;42;25 - 00;24;49;05
Speaker 3
I have ended up too many times on the parents of disabled children to talk and is a dark place.

00;24;50;14 - 00;24;52;04
Speaker 2
But they want to know that.

00;24;52;29 - 00;24;54;27
Speaker 1
But I see I see the same.

00;24;54;27 - 00;25;14;02
Speaker 3
Thing that I think I was trying to capture in Ellie's mom is that these are women who are looking for support in a world that has shown them none. And they are looking for someone to say that it is OK and you are being a good mom and it's you can get through this because in real not I'm going to cry.

00;25;14;02 - 00;25;14;14
Speaker 3
It's fight.

00;25;14;24 - 00;25;15;04
Speaker 1
Oh.

00;25;16;06 - 00;25;30;26
Speaker 3
Because in re in in real circumstances and people that they know, they may not have that mother that's from their partners, you know 90% of all marriages that have children with disabilities end in divorce and not just for insurance reasons.

00;25;32;09 - 00;25;33;00
Speaker 2
It's hard.

00;25;33;00 - 00;25;34;28
Speaker 1
It's hard. You know, you add this like huge.

00;25;34;28 - 00;26;16;21
Speaker 3
Complication and whatever. But so I but I then wanted to also then bring up the complication of when you make this your life when you make your child your life and you put it out there for all to see what happens when that Chad wants to say no. And I think for me and this maybe wasn't a true teenage feeling and maybe more like a college age me feeling because I was coming to understand something of what what duty do I have to my parents and what like looking back and seeing like what did my parents give up for me and my response, like if they're unhappy, is that my faults?

00;26;17;03 - 00;26;30;21
Speaker 3
Like I would I think Ellie has a lot of like really conflicted feelings. As much as she wants her mom to stop, she also realizes that this is the last thing her mom has and that because she chose to keep Ellie.

00;26;31;20 - 00;26;36;19
Speaker 1
Who it's always choice, and that's fine.

00;26;39;20 - 00;26;41;08
Speaker 1
Because she chose this.

00;26;41;26 - 00;26;57;12
Speaker 3
Why is why does Ellie get to take this one last thing away from her? And I think that's a conundrum. But at the end of the day, I also would say, Elliot, is your life and your mom is violating your hippo rights.

00;26;58;26 - 00;27;02;16
Speaker 2
I had that thought, but was like, is it OK since it's her mom?

00;27;03;00 - 00;27;24;24
Speaker 1
I mean, literally, I have watched tick tock moms go through full medication like just be like and my child takes 25 milligrams of it. And I'm like, dude, you were just putting all that medical information out there for anybody to find, man. And and I think it was also one of those things my mom and I talked.

00;27;24;24 - 00;27;37;19
Speaker 3
A lot about. Again, this is not my mother my mom did sort of 523 when I was small for families of actors, and she ran a message board back in the day. As children, you don't know what that is and that's OK.

00;27;39;13 - 00;27;41;16
Speaker 2
It's OK. Mostly adults watch my videos.

00;27;41;23 - 00;27;43;25
Speaker 1
Oh, great adults. You know what that is?

00;27;46;09 - 00;27;47;17
Speaker 1
And one of the things that would.

00;27;47;17 - 00;28;13;08
Speaker 3
Happen on her message boards is that parents would put their full slew of surgeries for their kids on. And this is not a locked message board, mind you. And so and some of the surgeries, like when you're dealing with Factorials and different letters, can get very personal that would never be something that I would want somebody at a high school level or middle school level to find and to be able to like taunt you with.

00;28;13;19 - 00;28;25;23
Speaker 3
And my mom has just been always very aware of that line of like, I'm trying to raise my child so that they can take over their life. Her whole thing was always like.

00;28;26;02 - 00;28;26;20
Speaker 1
No, no, no.

00;28;27;08 - 00;28;30;20
Speaker 3
I love you and I will always be here for you, but get out of my house.

00;28;31;04 - 00;28;37;01
Speaker 1
Like, you got a lot. You got it. There's no failure to lunch. Here. You got to got to go. Get out, get out.

00;28;37;12 - 00;28;38;19
Speaker 3
But I love you but in the.

00;28;38;22 - 00;28;40;01
Speaker 1
Nicest way possible.

00;28;40;29 - 00;28;42;05
Speaker 2
Go be an.

00;28;42;05 - 00;28;43;28
Speaker 1
Adult. Go be an adult. You are human.

00;28;43;28 - 00;28;53;02
Speaker 3
If I have to raise you to be an adult and a human that I failed my job. And so that like relationship of her mom not understanding.

00;28;53;02 - 00;28;53;29
Speaker 1
That but.

00;28;53;29 - 00;28;59;01
Speaker 3
Also meeting and not understanding her own need for validation in a world that has shut her out.

00;29;00;09 - 00;29;02;06
Speaker 1
Is basically hurt to hurt.

00;29;02;07 - 00;29;09;03
Speaker 3
People are both hurt at each other. And it culminates in a moment that I am sure her mother regrets to this day.

00;29;10;08 - 00;29;13;23
Speaker 1
You know, it's just that her parents get.

00;29;13;23 - 00;29;15;14
Speaker 3
Worst because of insurance.

00;29;15;26 - 00;29;19;00
Speaker 1
And see that you all want those unmarried someone for to.

00;29;19;00 - 00;29;20;10
Speaker 3
Get my medical insurance and I.

00;29;20;10 - 00;29;23;27
Speaker 1
Raise you getting divorced for your children but.

00;29;27;06 - 00;29;33;08
Speaker 2
Let's talk about another relationship. Well, your relationship with your boss.

00;29;33;21 - 00;29;41;09
Speaker 1
Bill Yeah. I was like I'm like, I don't know what we're doing with us. My relationship with my but yes, my my very fancy. Well.

00;29;41;18 - 00;29;46;23
Speaker 2
You're very fancy boss who blurbed your book on the cover and your office is Reese Witherspoon.

00;29;46;25 - 00;29;47;13
Speaker 1
That's right.

00;29;48;01 - 00;29;51;01
Speaker 2
Talk a little bit about getting Reese to blurb your book.

00;29;51;04 - 00;29;52;10
Speaker 1
So I worked a hell of.

00;29;52;10 - 00;29;55;27
Speaker 3
Sunshine since the late summer of 2017.

00;29;56;12 - 00;29;57;17
Speaker 1
And they always.

00;29;57;17 - 00;30;17;29
Speaker 3
Say, I went to film school before that, a while before that. And there was always this idea in film school that, like, when you meet very fancy people and they know you in that tangentially, like you could email them and they'd be like, all right, a I will do you a favor. You get one favor from them. So I worked there for five years or seven now.

00;30;19;25 - 00;30;21;05
Speaker 1
And kind of.

00;30;21;21 - 00;30;32;15
Speaker 3
I had always been writing and kind of always knew like must save me, ask for something, for something good. And when it came time for blurbs, obviously wed was like, we know.

00;30;32;15 - 00;30;43;11
Speaker 1
Where you were when you went on like you know, as the author. That's the question. And I was like, I'll see what I can do. And it's basically it's asking.

00;30;44;17 - 00;31;03;05
Speaker 3
It was I made an ass to my, like, day to day boss. And she handled it. And, and Reese was like, obviously yes. So and was super, super supportive and happy and like has has just been like a really big sideline cheerleader.

00;31;03;08 - 00;31;05;10
Speaker 2
So tell us what you do at Hello Sunshine.

00;31;05;10 - 00;31;05;25
Speaker 1
Oh, gosh.

00;31;06;18 - 00;31;09;14
Speaker 3
So the my official title is manager of.

00;31;09;14 - 00;31;14;00
Speaker 1
Books and it is the best time Elizabeth side I mean step up from.

00;31;14;00 - 00;31;15;07
Speaker 3
My original title which was.

00;31;15;07 - 00;31;16;12
Speaker 1
Bookworm literally.

00;31;16;12 - 00;31;17;07
Speaker 3
My first title there.

00;31;17;25 - 00;31;19;08
Speaker 2
I need I need this job.

00;31;19;11 - 00;31;21;07
Speaker 1
I have I have business cards that.

00;31;21;07 - 00;31;23;17
Speaker 3
Say like my hose on shiny male.

00;31;23;17 - 00;31;24;02
Speaker 1
Bookworm.

00;31;25;14 - 00;31;27;28
Speaker 3
I read.

00;31;27;28 - 00;31;30;08
Speaker 1
Books and I.

00;31;30;17 - 00;31;45;27
Speaker 3
Help accumulate the top reads and that we will centuries for book club. And then my other job there I help with lit up which is our fellowship for diverse women and nonbinary storytelling storytellers.

00;31;47;16 - 00;31;50;03
Speaker 1
So yeah, that's those are the two things I do a hell of a try.

00;31;50;17 - 00;32;00;22
Speaker 2
And I hear you read ten to 20 books at a time. Well, yes, I read like a three to six, maybe seven at a time. So ten to 20. How do you keep all the stories straight?

00;32;00;29 - 00;32;13;28
Speaker 3
I don't know. People ask that all the time. The only thing I tell you is that was an innate talent I was born with. Got two talents. One, I can read ten and 20 bucks at a time and keep them all straight. And two, I don't get hangovers yes, I've tried.

00;32;15;19 - 00;32;17;02
Speaker 1
It's also because we're adults here.

00;32;17;02 - 00;32;27;17
Speaker 3
But yeah, I used to read like Russian novels without the need of the like what is that drama? Drama T persona and the French like at Anita is like.

00;32;27;17 - 00;32;33;08
Speaker 1
Oh yeah, I know this better than us and bounce back and forth between these families. I got the so yeah.

00;32;33;08 - 00;32;35;18
Speaker 3
It's just they're all very like sort of different.

00;32;35;18 - 00;32;36;24
Speaker 1
And I just.

00;32;37;05 - 00;32;49;24
Speaker 3
I don't know, I've always been a person. I'm a mood readers. I'm always reading like ten to 15 books at a time. Anyway, it just depends what I want to read. And then I'm always rereading something. I mean, I just finished two rereads this week, so.

00;32;49;27 - 00;32;51;07
Speaker 2
I wish I had time for rereads.

00;32;51;29 - 00;32;52;14
Speaker 1
I.

00;32;52;18 - 00;32;58;21
Speaker 3
Just like I finally have trained my audible to just start my one, reread my run release and just it goes over.

00;32;58;21 - 00;33;05;27
Speaker 1
It just automatically flips back to the like. We know where we're going girl. And I'm like, Yeah, you do. We've done this ten times since February.

00;33;06;11 - 00;33;13;19
Speaker 2
But so you mentioned you do have a second book in the works. They do. What would you like to say about that at this point?

00;33;13;19 - 00;33;20;08
Speaker 1
I mean, I get to say a lot of things about it, so it is is one of those fabulous Taylor Swift lyrics, those titles.

00;33;21;01 - 00;33;43;20
Speaker 3
It's called All the Stars Align, and I pitch it as like Enchanted meets Serena with some speculative twists and it is about a disabled girl who belongs to a family where all the women in her family know their true love at first sight. And she is determined to have the most epic love story because that is what's going to make her fit into her family.

00;33;43;29 - 00;33;48;10
Speaker 3
Finally, because she doesn't feel like she fits in her mom is a bit of a rebel.

00;33;49;18 - 00;33;50;18
Speaker 1
And more.

00;33;50;21 - 00;33;51;01
Speaker 3
So than.

00;33;51;01 - 00;33;52;23
Speaker 1
That, her parents are now in the middle.

00;33;52;23 - 00;33;55;22
Speaker 3
Of a divorce, promised someday my parents will stay together.

00;33;57;07 - 00;33;58;11
Speaker 1
But this is like the.

00;33;58;11 - 00;34;24;03
Speaker 3
First divorce ever in this family. And everyone is like, Oh God. Like. So she's determined to like prove that the blessing that they, as they call it, is not broken and that she is not broken and deserving to be here. And so what happens when she finds the love of her life falls flat on her face at their first meeting and needs to convince her best friend who she has not talked to in six months because he wanted a friendship break from that.

00;34;24;11 - 00;34;32;09
Speaker 3
He needs to teach her the ways of a romance so that she can win the love of her life and have the life she's always dreamed of.

00;34;32;17 - 00;34;33;11
Speaker 1
Which is.

00;34;33;11 - 00;34;38;25
Speaker 3
Fine until he confesses that he loves her and she should choose.

00;34;39;24 - 00;34;40;25
Speaker 1
He she should give.

00;34;40;25 - 00;34;45;22
Speaker 3
Up on a love that fate has thought for her, for a love that fate could.

00;34;45;22 - 00;34;56;05
Speaker 1
Never dream up hopeful for. Oh, so a little Madrid, a little disability, a little over a month to bromance awesome.

00;34;56;05 - 00;34;57;11
Speaker 2
I cannot wait to get my head.

00;34;57;11 - 00;35;01;08
Speaker 1
Around that April 1st. It's not a joke. 20, 25.

00;35;02;21 - 00;35;08;16
Speaker 2
And since this is literary hype and you are the biggest bookworm, what book are you hyped? What books are you hyped about?

00;35;08;29 - 00;35;10;13
Speaker 3
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. OK.

00;35;10;26 - 00;35;11;24
Speaker 2
I'm going to limit you to one.

00;35;11;29 - 00;35;14;21
Speaker 1
Yeah, you shouldn't. So family wise.

00;35;14;25 - 00;35;29;06
Speaker 3
Reservations by Eliza Palmer if you. I'm a huge Top Chef fan. If you love, like, top chef cooking shows, whatever. And you wanted it to meet succession and you wanted it with all ladies, like an all lady family.

00;35;29;20 - 00;35;34;06
Speaker 1
And you maybe wanted it to have a happy ending. Ahem. I can't recommend this book.

00;35;34;06 - 00;35;53;25
Speaker 3
And it was so much fun to read Not Another Love Song by Julie Soto, which I just reread and finish my reread this morning. And it was like, one of the, like, one. She doesn't make any bones about that. This was fan fiction, and it's one of the few times that I think the a few of the fan fiction, like, fits so seamlessly into the world that she is writing about.

00;35;53;25 - 00;35;55;18
Speaker 3
And I was like, yes.

00;35;55;26 - 00;35;57;11
Speaker 2
That love Julie Soto.

00;35;57;11 - 00;35;59;20
Speaker 1
I also love her so much.

00;35;59;20 - 00;36;00;15
Speaker 3
It was so good.

00;36;00;24 - 00;36;02;02
Speaker 1
I'm like trying to think of, like, the.

00;36;02;02 - 00;36;04;11
Speaker 3
Things that I can talk about and the things that I can't talk about.

00;36;05;08 - 00;36;12;19
Speaker 1
Oh, and I think that's all I can talk about that things that I'm really dramatic can't talk about. Well, these are the things that I'm like, how do you do that?

00;36;12;19 - 00;36;13;17
Speaker 2
Show me an email later.

00;36;13;17 - 00;36;17;12
Speaker 1
Yeah, I'll be like a lot of people who are like, like, can you just tell us what's like in the list?

00;36;17;14 - 00;36;19;18
Speaker 3
Like, what's in the long list? And I'm like, No.

00;36;20;27 - 00;36;22;00
Speaker 2
Well, thank you so much.

00;36;22;01 - 00;36;22;17
Speaker 1
Thank you.

00;36;22;17 - 00;36;24;23
Speaker 2
I talked to literary hype about all the thing.

00;36;24;23 - 00;36;27;10
Speaker 1
This is so much fun that you were listening to my soapboxes.

00;36;27;14 - 00;36;28;04
Speaker 2
I love them.

00;36;29;24 - 00;36;35;11
Speaker 1
And what I have to ask we're good at is like full circle, like, you.

00;36;35;11 - 00;36;38;19
Speaker 3
Know, bookend moment. What is your favorite song?

00;36;39;13 - 00;36;44;16
Speaker 2
Fire is probably the one I listen to the most because that's a really good like let's go for.

00;36;44;16 - 00;36;45;00
Speaker 1
Your.

00;36;45;20 - 00;36;46;18
Speaker 2
But also.

00;36;46;22 - 00;36;52;05
Speaker 1
Also 333 on fire best like dance like hardest dance in all of K-pop history.

00;36;52;24 - 00;36;59;22
Speaker 2
Run betas is great. Oh I could I have the proof like one of the anthology just in my car so it's.

00;36;59;22 - 00;37;03;04
Speaker 1
Just oh yeah I love them now. I love.

00;37;03;21 - 00;37;06;18
Speaker 2
Love. Are you excited for our MS new album?

00;37;06;18 - 00;37;08;12
Speaker 3
I am. It's so it.

00;37;08;12 - 00;37;10;08
Speaker 2
Says alternative, but I am losing my mind.

00;37;10;08 - 00;37;14;25
Speaker 1
I'm like, I don't sir, sir, I need to sit down like you.

00;37;15;05 - 00;37;16;14
Speaker 2
You're in the military. You're in.

00;37;16;14 - 00;37;18;07
Speaker 1
The military. I was supposed to be fake.

00;37;19;00 - 00;37;22;15
Speaker 2
But remember that time we all thought we were going to save money while they were in the military.

00;37;22;15 - 00;37;24;04
Speaker 3
From that time, we thought we would have peace.

00;37;24;15 - 00;37;25;17
Speaker 2
We know no peace.

00;37;25;17 - 00;37;31;02
Speaker 1
We know no peace. It's fine. Like this is what they say when they like. I'm an Army widow.

00;37;32;25 - 00;37;34;26
Speaker 2
It's because we broke instantly.

00;37;35;04 - 00;37;44;14
Speaker 1
We broke up. We still here, and we still some felt like waiting for my men to come home from the war torn.

00;37;44;15 - 00;37;45;13
Speaker 2
So to lose.

00;37;45;18 - 00;37;48;10
Speaker 1
Yes, but he's also apparently the aloof.

00;37;49;13 - 00;38;16;20
Speaker 2
It's thanks so much to Gretchen for taking time out of her huge Friday schedule to talk with me about her book. Elly Haycock is totally normal. I loved this book. It is so fun and so poignant and just it's just I just want to house this story. I'm going to hug this book. And Gretchen is also fabulous. Like, we ended up talking well after the interview ended, just hanging out.

00;38;16;20 - 00;38;33;16
Speaker 2
Basically, Gretchen is an absolute delight I could not love her more. She is so fantastic. So definitely go check out Ellie. Haycock is totally normal. And if you want to check this book out, what you should, as I told you, you should check this out. The link to do so is in the show notes for you and those links to help support this podcast.

00;38;33;16 - 00;38;43;16
Speaker 2
So your help is greatly appreciated at keeping this podcast running. If you enjoyed this conversation, don't forget to give us some stars and subscribe. Thanks for listening to the Literary Hype podcast.