HAYLEY DENNINGS: Sapphic Vampires in Harlem's Jazz Age | This Ravenous Fate

If you're a fan of Chloe Gong, you're going to love Hayley Dennings. Her debut novel is about a couple of friends turned enemies (because one is a vampire) hunting down answers to a murder in Harlem's Jazz Age.

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Transcript

00;00;03;23 - 00;00;24;17
Speaker 1
Hello and welcome to the Literary Hype podcast. I am Stephanie, the literary hype woman. Back with another author conversation from C2e2 in Chicago, the Chicago Comics and Entertainment Expo, which is always a good time. Part of C2e2 is a book club where you can sign up ahead of time. They send you the book, you read it, and you go hang out with the author and ask questions and have a good time.

00;00;24;28 - 00;00;47;20
Speaker 1
This year's book club selection was Haley Jones and The Rabbit of Spades. This book is If You Took These Violent Delights, same time period, just moved it to Harlem in the US and made them black in Stafford, and then added some vampires instead of monsters. That's what you got here. So yes, it's a good time. And yes, I read this very quickly.

00;00;47;25 - 00;00;52;00
Speaker 1
And Haley is super fun. So hang out and check out this conversation with Haley Daniels.

00;00;57;24 - 00;01;09;06
Speaker 2
Welcome to Literary Hype. It's so exciting to get to talk to you. Thank you for having me. And you're the C2e2 Book Club selection. What was that process like for you? Finding it out and like the emotions leading into this?

00;01;09;09 - 00;01;29;05
Speaker 3
Honestly, I just got an email and I was like, wow, because I didn't know what C2e2 was until my team told me about it. I've never been to a Comic-Con or a convention like this. I was like, I thought it was going to be like a little small thing. And then I, like, went to the website and I was like, Oh, there's so many people that go, Why did they choose me?

00;01;29;11 - 00;01;36;18
Speaker 3
I don't know. But it's always really exciting to see people excited for queer black books. So I'm really happy to be here.

00;01;36;27 - 00;01;39;04
Speaker 2
I mean, more than a hundred people signed up for that.

00;01;39;04 - 00;01;39;26
Speaker 3
That is, while.

00;01;40;29 - 00;01;41;19
Speaker 2
People are getting here.

00;01;41;26 - 00;01;42;17
Speaker 3
Oh, my God.

00;01;43;04 - 00;01;52;21
Speaker 2
You today. Which is so exciting because this is such a fun book. So for anybody who hasn't seen this, rather than be on Instagram or anything like that yet, tell us a little bit about what it's about.

00;01;52;22 - 00;02;16;21
Speaker 3
Yeah, I call this Robin inspired my psychic vampire book because it's about vampires in 1920s, New York, specifically Harlem, and they're called Reapers in the book. So there's a reaper and a Reaper Hunter who are forced to work together to kind of solve a string of murders and a mysterious poison spreading throughout their city, trying to stop it before they, you know, get too involved with each other and kill each other.

00;02;16;22 - 00;02;21;18
Speaker 3
So lots of action, very intense. Maybe a little romantic, a little dark.

00;02;21;27 - 00;02;30;16
Speaker 2
It's certainly got the vibes to. But I also like typically, Don. But what's it like for you to be compared to someone who's so huge in the last day?

00;02;30;18 - 00;02;48;23
Speaker 3
I honestly I try not to think about it because then I get in my head and I'm like, no, I'm not even close to like touching her. But she is so cool and definitely a huge inspiration for Reese as honestly, an honor. And yeah, anytime people call up my book tour, I'm like, thank you, thank you. See the vision.

00;02;49;09 - 00;02;56;22
Speaker 2
It's it's definitely there We touched on that. The vampires are called breeders. Who do you make the decision to give them a different name?

00;02;56;26 - 00;03;20;03
Speaker 3
I really see them as, like, death incarnate. So I feel like Reapers kind of represent that. And I think there's a lot of kind of, like, preconceived ideas already attached to the word vampire. So I thought it would be interesting to give them kind of a fresh start. And the lure of Reapers is different than vampires. I didn't want people to, like, go in having these, like, kind of expectations already in their head, but just to kind of go and expect something a little new, a little fresh.

00;03;20;11 - 00;03;27;19
Speaker 2
Did you do a lot of research on Vampire before and like picking and choosing what parts of it you wanted to keep and what was like? And that's when I was worried.

00;03;28;02 - 00;03;47;14
Speaker 3
Honestly, I didn't do that much research. I've read like a couple books with vampires in them, like see movies, TV shows. So I kind of just wanted like the basic stuff, like, you know, drinking blood immortal, like stuff like that. Like, the idea really came from someone who's, like, immortal but, like, hates being immortal because they're kind of, like, rotting as time goes on.

00;03;47;14 - 00;03;54;28
Speaker 3
So I really wanted to explore, like, a non romantic sized version of immortality. And then I kind of built around that idea.

00;03;55;17 - 00;04;09;02
Speaker 2
And this is set in Harlem Jazz Age. What was it like putting yourself in that time period to write? Because the descriptions are so much fun and like putting yourself in that, like, Club Toes vibe.

00;04;09;29 - 00;04;28;04
Speaker 3
Honestly, it was so much fun. I love the 1920s and specifically Harlem. I think the Harlem Renaissance is such a pivotal moment in black history and I don't know, I just like reading a lot of historical books, especially in the white space. I feel like they don't tend to focus on the joy. Like a lot of black history is all about trauma.

00;04;28;05 - 00;04;48;22
Speaker 3
So I really wanted to focus in on a part where blackness was celebrated and the Harlem Renaissance as a huge time period for that. So it was really cool getting to like research that I read books that during that time written during that time, it's just very immersive. And I knew that I wanted my book to not just like feature a few of those kind of elements, but kind of be surrounded by that.

00;04;49;01 - 00;05;02;13
Speaker 2
You touch certain. But there's a little romance in this. Yes, it's very much so. All the tropes. Yes, there's so many tropes of them. Do you have a favorite of the tropes that you wrote or any of that you wish you had included in it? Hmm.

00;05;02;23 - 00;05;25;10
Speaker 3
I feel like I included so many and like not even all of them were intentional. They just kind of came about. But I just really love the childhood best friends to enemies, to lovers. Like, there's so much angst and yearning involved. And I don't know, I feel like the having the childhood friends aspect kind of meets the enemies aspect a little deeper because it's like they used to really know each other super well.

00;05;25;10 - 00;05;38;13
Speaker 3
They still do know each other. Like, even though it's been a few years since they've seen each other, they still were like the closest people to each other's lives. And like, even though, you know, at some point they're supposed to kill each other, it's like you used to be my best friend. Like, there's just so much underlying tension in that.

00;05;38;14 - 00;05;58;06
Speaker 3
I think it makes like it's a little deeper than regular enemies to lovers. So I just love exploring that. I also feel like in a lot of queer communities, there's kind of that like not necessarily like Adam Silver trying to kill each other. Like that's a little unhinged, but definitely like the ex-best friends aspect, like the potential of like falling in love with your best friend, what that means, kind of having the tension there.

00;05;58;06 - 00;06;07;17
Speaker 3
So I definitely wanted to explore that. Like, I think especially for a suffix, there's like the homoerotic female friendships. I definitely wanted to get into that. And that trope was like perfect for doing that.

00;06;08;12 - 00;06;28;27
Speaker 2
In the scene. Some really gets amped up with the enemies side of thing. Yeah. So these 22 girls have to go solve a crime face but essentially it is more crafting of the mystery side of this with all that tension of the enemies and the romance that a lot of tensions with.

00;06;29;14 - 00;06;50;25
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. I love when enemies are forced to work together because then they're forced to kind of like deal with their differences and figure out where they actually, you know, kind of go together really well. So I loved exploring that honestly. The whole mystery aspect came out of nowhere. Like when I first came up with the idea for this book, I did not want it to be like a murder mystery, but then it just kind of happened.

00;06;50;26 - 00;07;00;03
Speaker 3
I remember like finishing the first job and being like, Wow, that's, that's not what I intended at all. But I was happy with where it came out. So I'm glad that people are like seeing it and be like, this is, this is fine.

00;07;00;16 - 00;07;05;21
Speaker 2
And this is the NaNoWriMo plot, correct? It's something.

00;07;05;21 - 00;07;21;06
Speaker 3
Alone. It wasn't officially I didn't write it in November, but I did like a January Ramo where I tried to write like 50,000 words in a month. So I did end up drafting, like, the whole thing and like a month and a half. So it was my own little side note projects.

00;07;22;05 - 00;07;30;12
Speaker 2
Talking about what, like the challenges like NaNoWriMo and stuff. Like that mean to the writing community and how important those are to help and some writers get started.

00;07;31;00 - 00;07;49;24
Speaker 3
Honestly, I think it's just great to bring a lot of writers together by getting my start. I found so many people in the writing community through doing NaNoWriMo and like some of my best friends I so talk to now, like we do NaNoWriMo together, we will come together, hold each other accountable with our word counts and like writing every day.

00;07;49;24 - 00;08;11;05
Speaker 3
And then sometimes we'll do like ten K word days. And I think it's just like honestly, just a great thing to do. Like, I think a lot of people will feel a little daunted by, you know, writing a whole novel in a month, but it's not even about doing that. I honestly think it's just about kind of getting into the habit and learning the process of writing a book and potentially finishing a book for sure.

00;08;11;13 - 00;08;24;20
Speaker 2
So this fits pretty squarely into the romance of the genre and romance. This in this huge explosion of interest, what is it about lending fantasy and romance to a level that they can't be separated or the story that is really drawing such an audience.

00;08;25;16 - 00;08;46;02
Speaker 3
Honestly, I think it's just like really the characters and their connections. Like for a lot of readers, I know for me specifically, I don't feel connected to a story unless I'm like really into the characters. And I think it helps me connect with characters more when they have that relationship, whether it's romantic or platonic, but just a really well-developed relationship that you're rooting for.

00;08;46;08 - 00;09;08;13
Speaker 3
And so I think like a lot of people ask me like, Oh, do you prefer like slot based books or like character driven books? I'm like, I don't think that you can like separate the two. I think you know, they really work together and adding a romance element that really intertwines with the plot and, you know, drives the characters motivations I think is really important to creating a story that people are going to care about.

00;09;08;13 - 00;09;16;13
Speaker 3
You know, it doesn't have to be romantic, but just some kind of relationship that I feel like the characters are really, really driven to protecting or maintaining.

00;09;17;05 - 00;09;30;15
Speaker 2
So there's a line in here. This is like Valeria has much worse stories. Did you write outs per background stories before you went into it, or do you have them all floating around in your head? Are these things we need to see?

00;09;30;15 - 00;09;51;25
Speaker 3
I don't I didn't I did not write them out. But as I was writing, I was thinking like, you know, this is a really, really old lady. Like, she has stories. Like, I always have some sense of a character's background in my head before I write them, helps me like get into their head. But like she's been alive for so long, I just have these ideas floating in my head.

00;09;51;25 - 00;10;12;04
Speaker 3
And it's funny you say that because like, my friends will send me, like, positive reviews. Sometimes it will be like, Oh my God, people are asking for like a prequel to Valeria's like, story. And I'm like, I never even thought of that. That's so funny. But it definitely would be interesting to explore. I have zero plans, but she definitely has a lot of law and there's tons of stuff to get into with her.

00;10;12;04 - 00;10;14;25
Speaker 3
But it's all, all in here, and none of it's been written down.

00;10;16;10 - 00;10;17;25
Speaker 2
Elise has a lot go on.

00;10;18;08 - 00;10;19;00
Speaker 3
She does.

00;10;19;28 - 00;10;30;04
Speaker 2
Her daddy. Q Talk a little bit about prompting someone and was supposed to be so integral to this character, like someone they look up to, but also like, not a great person.

00;10;30;08 - 00;10;53;29
Speaker 3
Yeah. Honestly, it's really interesting because he's like a personal villain to her, and it kind of takes her a while to realize that, like, she's like, No, he's my dad. I have to love him. And I don't know. I think it just kind of reminds me of like the various ways that some, like, family members will try and say they love someone when in reality is like, that's you know, the way you treat them is not love.

00;10;54;09 - 00;11;10;04
Speaker 3
And so Elise's character, I knew from the beginning was like a perfectionist, someone who's, like, very obsessed with like, doing things right. And I was like, where does she get this from? Like, this doesn't just come from nowhere. So I'm like, I knew that there had to be outside forces. I kind of, you know, put that on to her.

00;11;10;04 - 00;11;26;12
Speaker 3
So her dad is, you know, the main one. And it's very, very hard to write her because I'm like, I don't want to make her into like some kind of caricature or her dad and you know, like some of the things she deals with, like I deal with myself. And so it was hard to kind of like get into that.

00;11;26;12 - 00;11;45;10
Speaker 3
But I don't know, I think it's important for a character to have not just like the outside villain who's like doing bad things to everyone, but also someone else who is like really challenging them internally. So it was hard writing back and like that poor girl goes through so much like outside of her house, and then she comes home and like there's more to deal with.

00;11;45;22 - 00;11;56;00
Speaker 3
But it was really interesting seeing her as someone who's like maybe like not necessarily weak, but like a little softer in the beginning and kind of learns to, like, find her voice and stand up for herself is great.

00;11;56;19 - 00;12;02;19
Speaker 2
She kind of feels like a little disorder, even though she is by a larger place. But it is a step.

00;12;02;22 - 00;12;03;06
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;12;04;24 - 00;12;17;10
Speaker 2
It's through like an expression of crying. And this is like the fifth and sixth way was that I've read this year that has major grief to me. What is it about grief that is like encompassing the way space? Sorry about it.

00;12;18;02 - 00;12;38;11
Speaker 3
I don't know, but I love it because grief is something we all experience and we deal with it all in different ways. So I love reading like various iterations of it because it's never going to be the same. There's always going to be something new to find in the space. And honestly, like when I first like revise this, but the very first draft of this book, she did not have an older sister.

00;12;38;11 - 00;12;54;16
Speaker 3
Like she was the oldest is very much giving older sister vibes. And then it changed a little bit later because I was like, I think we need to go deeper into like why she's feeling these things, why there's so much like darkness surrounding this family. And so she's definitely more like middle sibling, but stepping into the older sister vibe.

00;12;54;16 - 00;13;11;14
Speaker 3
And I think that there is like a ton of grief surrounding that. Like even if you haven't necessarily lost someone, but like also just being a middle child and like kind of feeling like forgotten or not, like kind of like you're sidelined or not like the priority of your family. There definitely is that kind of sense of loss.

00;13;11;14 - 00;13;23;16
Speaker 3
And so yeah, I don't know, I, I love that so many like Y.A. books and just books in general or, you know, taking different ways to deal with grief because again, like it's something we all go through the movies.

00;13;23;28 - 00;13;32;24
Speaker 2
It hits ABS or is having OCD, are we going to see more of that explored in the second part of this day? Yeah, second book in this do ology.

00;13;33;02 - 00;13;49;13
Speaker 3
Yeah, definitely. Because OCD is something that just never goes away. Like, I deal with that myself. And like there will be moments where I'm like, great. I like, I guess like myself all the time about having OCD is one of those things where it's like, it's there sometimes. Sometimes it's better. And so I try to share that with Alice.

00;13;49;18 - 00;14;06;06
Speaker 3
I almost was going to cut it from the book because I was like, I feel like people aren't going to understand, you know, everyone's experience with OCD is different. Like, maybe if you won't get it, but then I just kept it because like, I think it really speaks more to her character, and I definitely were trying to explore that more in book two because things are a lot more stressful.

00;14;06;10 - 00;14;15;17
Speaker 3
But too, it's wild and that definitely, at least for me, like a triggering factor for, you know, OCD kind of being worse. So there's a lot more explorations of that for sure.

00;14;16;11 - 00;14;27;29
Speaker 2
And Emily Belcher, following through social media through two of every book talk and books, degree of what have you learned about like marketing a book through social media and how to reach people?

00;14;29;16 - 00;14;50;05
Speaker 3
I'm still learning every day. Like, I am so frustrated all the time because like I feel like I'll spend so much time on content and then like there's really nothing to show for it. But at the end of the day, I'm just happy to have a community. Like, I started out just talking about books like no mention of my writing, just talking about books, and I just love meeting other people who love to read.

00;14;50;13 - 00;15;05;26
Speaker 3
And so to have created a community like that is great. So learning how to market my book, I don't know. There's like different niches to step into. I'm like, Do I want to talk about being black and writing black books? Or do I want to talk about writing queer books? Or like, do I admit all of that and just say I'm writing books to get like a more general audience?

00;15;05;26 - 00;15;25;03
Speaker 3
So there's so much to think about, especially because like there's like homophobia and racism everywhere. And I'm like, I don't know, like, what's the best way to go about this? So still figuring it out. But I have like other friends who are authors who give me great advice and yeah, at the end of the day, I have fun with it, which is really all that I think matter, especially being on social media.

00;15;25;20 - 00;15;30;21
Speaker 2
What's the best piece of advice you've gotten so far on the radio? Well, I mean.

00;15;31;15 - 00;15;51;27
Speaker 3
Honestly, I would say just remembering why you started in the first place, I think like the further I get in my writing career, like I just started out writing alone and my room to myself not sharing my work with anyone, not even thinking about the possibility of it being published or seen by anyone else. And like that alone brought me so much joy.

00;15;52;09 - 00;16;15;21
Speaker 3
And whenever I'm feeling bad about anything regarding my writing, whether it's a review or, I don't know, something bad, I just remember I'm like, No, I wrote this book for myself and, you know, for other people like me to see themselves in it. And if even just one person likes my book, feel seen by it. Then I will have done what I needed to do it.

00;16;15;21 - 00;16;23;00
Speaker 3
It just comforts me knowing that and just falling in love with writing all over again. It really helps with that.

00;16;23;19 - 00;16;28;04
Speaker 2
Thesis is literary hype. The last question we always ask is, What books are you happy about right now?

00;16;28;08 - 00;16;48;17
Speaker 3
I'm really, really excited for Immortal Dark, which is another vampire book and my God, I'm also really excited for The Dark. We know about me for two so many books I also really need to read. So Let Them Burn by Camilla Cole, a great friend of mine, Dragons, South Eggs. Super excited. Yeah, there's so many. So many.

00;16;48;17 - 00;16;50;15
Speaker 2
So thank you. So you, you know.

00;16;51;00 - 00;16;52;01
Speaker 3
Thank you for having me.

00;16;57;13 - 00;17;13;24
Speaker 1
Thanks again to Hayley for getting up very early on a c2e2 Saturday morning to talk about her book, This Ravenous Faith, which is so much fun. If you want to get a hold of this book, the link to order it is in the show notes for you using those links does help support the podcast. So your help is greatly appreciated.

00;17;13;25 - 00;17;26;08
Speaker 1
If you enjoyed this conversation with Hayley, don't forget to stick around for more. Subscribe to Literary Hype podcast and give us some stars. I'll see you back here next Tuesday. With another author conversation. Thanks for listening to the Literary Hype podcast.