Unlock the secrets to a purr-fectly healthy cat on today's Hiss and Tell, with special guests Dr. Gina Rendon and Dr. Lee Nancarrow. We sink our claws into the hotly debated topic of raw food diets, weighing the benefits against the risks such as bacterial contamination and antibiotic resistance. For pet owners and feline aficionados alike, this episode is a treasure trove of insights into keeping both your four-legged companion and your household safe. We cover practical tips for impeccable kitchen hygiene and tackle myths about dental health, ensuring you're armed with knowledge to make informed decisions about your cat's diet.
With a whisker's-width focus on your cat's nutrition, we navigate through the intricacies of supplements, the challenges of ensuring balanced homemade meals, and how to cater to cats at every stage of life. Dr. Rendon and Dr. Nancarrow share their expertise on how to advocate for your cat's diet, whether they're battling health issues like kidney disease or simply transitioning from kibble to a more varied menu. Our discussion serves up a full bowl of recommendations on dry versus wet food, and how to tailor your cat's diet to their unique needs without compromising on nutrition or taste.
Get ready to indulge in a feast of feline wisdom, as we also address the emotional side of pet guardianship. We confront the guilt associated with pet illnesses, explore the judicious use of treats for training, and even satisfy your curiosity about quirky questions like the benefits of feeding cats raw quail eggs. Today's episode is an essential listen for anyone dedicated to nurturing their cat's health through thoughtful nutrition choices. Join us for an enlightening chat that will help you keep the health and happiness of your feline friend in perfect balance.
Unlock the secrets to a purr-fectly healthy cat on today's Hiss and Tell, with special guests Dr. Gina Rendon and Dr. Lee Nancarrow. We sink our claws into the hotly debated topic of raw food diets, weighing the benefits against the risks such as bacterial contamination and antibiotic resistance. For pet owners and feline aficionados alike, this episode is a treasure trove of insights into keeping both your four-legged companion and your household safe. We cover practical tips for impeccable kitchen hygiene and tackle myths about dental health, ensuring you're armed with knowledge to make informed decisions about your cat's diet.
With a whisker's-width focus on your cat's nutrition, we navigate through the intricacies of supplements, the challenges of ensuring balanced homemade meals, and how to cater to cats at every stage of life. Dr. Rendon and Dr. Nancarrow share their expertise on how to advocate for your cat's diet, whether they're battling health issues like kidney disease or simply transitioning from kibble to a more varied menu. Our discussion serves up a full bowl of recommendations on dry versus wet food, and how to tailor your cat's diet to their unique needs without compromising on nutrition or taste.
Get ready to indulge in a feast of feline wisdom, as we also address the emotional side of pet guardianship. We confront the guilt associated with pet illnesses, explore the judicious use of treats for training, and even satisfy your curiosity about quirky questions like the benefits of feeding cats raw quail eggs. Today's episode is an essential listen for anyone dedicated to nurturing their cat's health through thoughtful nutrition choices. Join us for an enlightening chat that will help you keep the health and happiness of your feline friend in perfect balance.
Kristiina Wilson:
Hi and welcome to Hiss and Tell a Cat Behavior and More podcast. I'm your host, Kristiina Wilson, animal behaviorist. Today is part two of our episode about feline nutrition and I'll be speaking with Dr Gina Rendon and Dr Lee Nancarrow . Again, we're covering raw foods, sanitation, pathogens, allergies, special diets and answering your listener questions. So join us as we talk all about feline nutrition. Okay, so now I think we're going to segue into talking about raw food. I know this is our hot button topic. People are really either super pro-raw food slash cooking for their cats or really actively against it. Let's get into it, let's go.
Dr Gina Rendon:
Let's fight. This is where all the emotions come in. Yes, people fight very, very strongly. So I guess let's just start with.
Kristiina Wilson:
Both of you can say where do you fall on the spectrum of? Do we feed cats raw food? Is it helpful? What are the benefits, what are your feelings about raw food? And then we'll just we'll go from there. If, if everyone is still talking to one another after after this introduction I'll.
Dr Gina Rendon:
I'll start because I'm on the con side. I don't recommend it and I'll just you know. I'm going to one thing. I'd like to make clear that we don't carry prescription diets or diets at my hospital, so I don't make any money from commercial diets. I think we have just a few bags of food for dogs that have diarrhea to send them home so that they don't have to order them online, but other than that we're not carrying any diet, so I'm not getting any money for any of this Raw diets I and the other part that I'd like to clarify is that you know it really is up to the owner.
Dr Gina Rendon:
I guess we're not supposed to say owner anymore. We're supposed to say guardian. It's really up to the guardian to make the final decision. All I can do is offer advice and offer my expertise, but in the end I'm never going to shame anybody for what they want to feed their animals. But my biggest concern is just bacterial pathogens and just you know, I always feel like you know, on the human side there are so many recalls. There's issues with salmonella, there's issues with listeria E coli. You go to the restaurants now and they say you know, at the bottom of the menu there may be raw food you eat at your own risk there may be raw food you eat at your own risk.
Dr Gina Rendon:
You know if you're ordering like a hamburger that's medium rare or whatever, that there are risks for that. And this is on the human side where there is a lot more oversight. I mean, I think there's oversight on both sides, but with raw food, pet foods, there's not better management of that. You know, there's not higher vigilance on that side, and so there's always going to be the risk. And I went to a lecture recently just on bacteria in general, like emerging pathogens, and you know, one of the big concerns is that a lot of raw foods have enterobacter species that are resistant to antibiotics and so and they're not necessarily pathogenic if an animal ingests them, but those bacteria are in the environment and we're exposed to those and they have that the encoding for antibiotic resistance that can jump over to other bacteria. And so you know, I think, because antibiotic resistance is such a big deal, it's such a big health issue that that's a really big concern.
Dr Gina Rendon:
You know, people don't even necessarily wash their pet's dishes. There was a study that, like about 12% of pet owners, when questioned, actually wash their pets dishes every day, which I think is crazy. And so just in terms of like food safety. If they're not washing their dishes, I'm not confident that they're also managing raw food in a way that is necessarily healthy, and so especially pregnant women, people who have immunocompromised conditions, should really not be feeding raw food diets. There's the companion animal parasite council. They basically recommend against kissing your dog if they're on a raw food diet. I think, ali, you and I had talked about Colorado State and all of the measures that they take with animals that are on raw food diets. So I personally, just safety wise, don't recommend them. And and it's all really about safety and also now this emerging antibiotic resistance issue.
Kristiina Wilson:
So can we for one minute talk about why it is so important for people to wash their pets dishes? To me, that study number is alarming and bonkers. And I wish that there was concurrent data on how many of those pets had just crazy acne Like, because I think also something that people don't know that much about is how much food bowl cleanliness and food bowl type contributes to pet acne and even what pet acne is.
Kristiina Wilson:
And so maybe just briefly and I'm sorry I know I'm interrupting this, the hot button topic but this is something I run into with my clients and friends a lot who are like, oh, what's this on my animal's face? And then I ask them about the dish and they don't know. So maybe you can talk just briefly about why is it a good idea to wash your pet's dish every day, like we wash our own dishes.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
I think you just clearly stated it Exactly. Okay, I'm a vet now, bacteria yeah.
Dr Gina Rendon:
It's actually kind of shocking to me, because I do. Now I made it a point, especially if there's like an issue with recurring diarrhea. If there's an issue with acne, I'll ask people like, are you washing the dish every day? And they generally don't. It's pretty interesting washing the dish every day and they generally don't.
Kristiina Wilson:
It's pretty, it's pretty interesting. I, I mean we just and again, we're not like a banner household and it's hard managing for 11 cats, so but we switch them for every meal, right? Yeah, I do too. I. I because the growing like what they're eating, just like soft meat. Yeah, in the summer it's just sitting there festering.
Dr Gina Rendon:
Yeah.
Kristiina Wilson:
The idea is abhorrent to me just on a personal level. I'm like that cannot. That's disgusting, I'm sure they would happily eat out of them for a day, but like no, no, no, no, yeah so anyway, sorry I totally interrupted the raw food discussion.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
Dr Nankaro, do you want to go ahead and give your side of the raw perspective? Actually, gina, I think Gina and I are very close. Oh great, I just I don't shame. You mentioned this, gina. I don't shame any clients if they want to feed raw, but I stress upon them I would rather it be a commercially made and not homemade, and afgo fruit and not homemade and AFCO approved. My biggest concern, whether they cook it's the homemade diets because they're not AFCO approved, even if you get a nutritionist to give you the recipe.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
I did this for one of my dogs for I don't know four months I tried to do homemade diets and it's a lot of time, it's a lot of money. And I remember I'm like I don't know, four months I tried to do homemade diets and it's a lot of time, it's a lot of money. And I remember I'm like I don't have the blueberries this week, I just won't use them. And it just puts you on a cycle that you're missing ingredients and so you're not feeding a well-balanced diet. And then one weekend I made a pot. You know you could have to get the hearts and the chicken livers and the gizzards and all these ingredients and I made a pot in the in the crock pot, and I could smell bacteria and I had to throw the whole thing away and I'm like, I'm never doing this again.
Dr Gina Rendon:
Yeah.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
Waste all that money, waste all that time. It just wasn't worth it and it was a very good learning experience for me because I can tell my clients I'm not a fan of homemade diet. I don't care if you cook it, if it's raw, I don't care. I'm not a fan as far as. So, going back to the raw, so people who still eat meat I'm one of those.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
You know, we know how to. You know, my husband and I have our own chopping board for the chicken or the pork. We have a knife. We know to clean that area. We know to clean the sink before we introduce anything else. We inherently not inherently we know that We've learned how to keep our kitchen clean from those pathogens that come in with our raw meat. So it makes sense that clients should be able to do that too, but I don't think they do because they don't wash their animals' dishes right. So that is a concern. I do want to throw in a caveat that if you go on the CDC website and look for recalls of pet food for food pathogens, dry food is listed a lot more commonly than raw and you might say well, that's because there's a lot more dry food out on the market than raw and fair statement. But I just want to. I think there are ways of getting away around the fear of the pathogens, because we do it every day with our own food.
Dr Gina Rendon:
Yeah, Okay, all right. Knows why there is this push for raw food and probably just stating why people want to do raw food. It would be helpful for you know to the general listener and I think you know.
Dr Gina Rendon:
There there is the claim that it's closer to a wild type diet you know animals that are out there, cats that are hunting, and so a raw food is closer to that, I think you know. Obviously, the difference is that it's not fresh, you know, it's not a freshly killed creature, which is very different from an animal that has been killed and then frozen. And I think there are, I think there are some studies out there that show that there may be some benefits to the raw, but it's not, it's not conclusive.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
I think one of it is because they do want to get closer to nature.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
They want to get away from the processed foods. You know, if you talk to our colleagues that have taken the route of holistic or integrative medicine, most of them are promoting raw food and I think they're finding a lot. Much healthier skin coats, you know, fewer allergies. Much healthier skin coats, you know, fewer allergies. I don't know what they're seeing more of than we do are. You know the general conventionally practicing veterinarian, but I just don't want to say that raw is bad.
Dr Gina Rendon:
I would like to. There are definitely animals that have had issues with, you know, and usually it's skin allergies that have gone to raw diets and have been maintained. Their skin is maintained with the raw diet, so it's not like I don't see that. And again, you know, I feel like in the end it is that the guardian's choice, but if it is working, then they have to be really careful about the handling those pathogens that are potentially in the meat or on the kibble are more of a problem for us humans than our pets, our pets
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
have really high acid in their stomachs that kill those microorganisms, but we don't, so it's more of a threat to us and I don't think people understand that. Yeah, that's a good point.
Kristiina Wilson:
That idea being in the popular culture is one reason that people are lazy about washing bowls is that people have this idea and correctly so in many cases that animals have stronger stomachs, they can eat raw food. They can eat just animals they've killed.
Dr Gina Rendon:
They can eat trash.
Kristiina Wilson:
We don't have to be as worried about their cleanliness, right, or necessarily like the state of their bowl. So I feel like that's one kind of reason for that. And then one thing about the raw food that I have noticed with my clients and just being in a lot of cat Facebook groups where people talk about all of these issues is there's a lot of just Facebook groups where people talk about all of these issues? Is there's a lot of just general discussion about, oh, this raw food diet made my cat's poop stop smelling. It seems to solve in air quotes for people who are just listening, the perception is that it solves a lot of human-based problems around cats such as stinky poop shedding.
Kristiina Wilson:
People are making claims that it's really drastically reduced shedding, that it has improved behavior, that it has, you know, done all of these things, that I don't know if there have really been any actual studies on any of these things. But there's so much talk in these cat groups, where people who love cats and have a lot of cats go and talk with other like-minded people and they share this information that now there's this generalized understanding among lay people that raw food solves x, y and z I've heard it both ways.
Dr Gina Rendon:
Yeah, I've had people who feed raw food diets. Let's say they're the animal's poop is horrible and they switch it over. So I've it's gone in both directions. You know, some people will say the raw food improves one thing and doesn't improve another thing so I think, it.
Dr Gina Rendon:
it really is also that animals are very individual, um, so it kind of depends on what their genetics are and how they process things. But sure, um, I think that the the jury is still out about whether raw food diets are that much better and again, for me the issue is mostly just safety, right.
Kristiina Wilson:
And is there a concern for humans handling the raw food to give? To their pets Right. So, because that's the main concern about pathogens like salmonella or E coli, like then. Would you recommend that if, if obviously humans are going to feed their pets humans, if lizards are going to feed their pets a raw diet, why? I said humans like a total moron. If people are feeding their pets or their cats a raw diet, should people be wearing gloves while they're handling?
Dr Gina Rendon:
the food or doing the food out right.
Kristiina Wilson:
Um, it's something else I think that people are not maybe really thinking about. Um, that this is something that you should be loved for, I think probably when I'm preparing my chicken for myself.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
I don't wear gloves.
Dr Gina Rendon:
I take my rings off, right, but you probably have dedicated, yeah and you have dedicated equipment, and I think that's probably the most important thing is making sure that you have dedicated cutting boards. You know whatever that is, and then exactly washing your hands.
Kristiina Wilson:
Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of people Maybe doing a light bleaching yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of people maybe wouldn't like immediately think to wash their hands after handling cat food.
Kristiina Wilson:
Right, right, right, even though they should yeah, just because it's sticky number one yeah, but I just think it's not something that people would immediately think of, whereas if they're handling raw chicken, my hope is that most people would immediately wash their hands. Yeah. Yeah, you know, or they're going to maybe be removed from the gene pool fairly quickly if they don't. So anyhow, have either of you read anything about a raw food diet, doing anything one way or the other for cats' dental health?
Dr Gina Rendon:
I read a little bit about it. So the theory is that animals that are eating the bones, that the bones are what can keep teeth cleaner. But if you look at animals like feral animals that are catching wild things I think they even looked at like cougars and things like that and comparing dental health, I mean cats are going to have dental health issues, you know, whatever they're eating. But I think one of the risks, the higher risk factors with raw diets is broken teeth and so they find that in the wild.
Dr Gina Rendon:
They find that you know with and I see that all the time with dogs that chew on bones, that they'll break teeth and so and I think a lot of the disease that animals will get tends to be more under the gum line and it's kind of like Lee said we're brushing our teeth twice a day and we still go into the dentist, you know, every six months. I think dental health is just there's not a. There's not a an easy answer for dental health.
Dr Gina Rendon:
There's nothing that's magical, that's going to make any animal, any creature's teeth healthy just because they're eating that. I think it's just bacteria genetics. You know there's a lot of different factors. Yeah, okay.
Kristiina Wilson:
Okay, so how would you monitor cats who may be on a raw food diet to see if they have any nutritional deficiencies or health issues? And then what would you do? If you have a concern, I guess, obviously go to your veterinarian, but what would you look for in a cat who's on a raw food diet?
Dr Gina Rendon:
I think you know the concern if it's not an AFCO approved diet, which is the American. Oh God, I always forget what those initials stand for American Feed Association of.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
American Feed Control Officers Control.
Dr Gina Rendon:
Officers yeah, so they're the ones that there should be their stamp on the food and that says if they meet the nutritional requirements.
Dr Gina Rendon:
But, so if somebody is just sourcing raw rabbits or whatever from their butcher and feeding them to their animals, my concern would be issues. I think there's like a vitamin D. There are vitamin D problems. I mean, if you're not giving the bones, it's really hard because sometimes you don't know there's an issue until it's too late. You don't know if there's like a vitamin D deficiency which will cause a calcium issue.
Dr Gina Rendon:
I read a case study about a cat that it was a kitten actually, who wouldn't eat any commercial diet, wouldn't eat any wet food, wouldn't eat. The only thing it would eat was a raw food diet and I guess it was just the meat. The owners were feeding the meat and this poor little kitten developed secondary hypoparathyroidism, so it had a vitamin D deficiency and developed rickets and so, yeah, and it was because they weren't supplementing it with, you know, essential vitamins and minerals and so and of course the cat was like I am not eating. But they did finally realize that they needed to supplement and so they finally supplemented and the cat did okay. But so that's the big concern about if it's not formulated that they're not getting all of their essential vitamins and minerals and they can develop things like rickets. What is the other major deficiency? Taurine. I guess with with raw food diets that's less of an issue, but right, but that would be one of them. So just making sure that they're getting.
Kristiina Wilson:
I think there are some fatty acids that they don't get from just a meat diet, but okay are there any cats who and again, I know where you guys stand here, but are there any cats who would just not be suitable candidates for a raw food diet, like if they have compromised immune systems or specific health conditions? Are there any cats that you would just be like? Absolutely no, do not do this.
Dr Gina Rendon:
You know, I think that's actually a really good question, because I think for me it really is like what will this animal eat? So, again, you know, cats are so individual, and if it's the only thing that they're going to eat, I'm not going to say no to it, right, I would rather a cat take in calories than not take in calories, and so you know, especially the cats that tend to be the ones that are wasting and not eating, feed them what they'll eat, yeah.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
Absolutely Okay. I mean, that's so true with our kidney cats or cats with chronic kidney disease. We put them on a kidney diet and they won't eat it.
Dr Gina Rendon:
I'm like well, just get them to eat it Exactly, and that's always the like, the main thing, that if they'll eat it, great, if they won't, don't worry about it. This is not. This is not a priority, right.
Kristiina Wilson:
Okay, so I think we covered raw food very well and without any any blows, so that's good, even though the software did try to mute you several times, jana, so I'm sorry. Sorry about that. Yeah, just say absolutely, shut up. Um, so do you want to talk a little bit, dr nankaro, about what diet you do advocate for, because I don't think we've actually really talked about it. We've talked about what you don't really necessarily advocate for, but what do you recommend?
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
Right. So it kind of depends on what the client wants. If the client you know they're economically strapped and they want a less expensive food, then I'll probably recommend I hate naming can we name names.
Dr Gina Rendon:
I know I don't like naming names either you can, but I don't know if you want to.
Kristiina Wilson:
I mean Just say commercial, okay.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
All right, I would direct them towards commercial dry and canned, high protein, low carb as much as you can, and I would encourage them to look at the dry matter, because you're supposed to compare foods by the dry matter, because kibble is about 7 to 10% moisture and canned food is about 67 to 70% moisture and so that moisture content can skew that comparison. So they recommend comparing foods by the dry matter basis, but it would be high protein.
Kristiina Wilson:
So I know we talked about that, dr Nicaro, that you tried cooking for your pets. I know you said for dogs. Would you advocate that? Probably not. Then that people try cooking for their cats? Where do you guys both fall on the spectrum of somebody? Let's say, someone's just gotten a cat and they're like what should I do? That will be the absolute best thing for this cat. What would you tell them? Maybe?
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
it is that question I you know I am leaning towards the human grade, gently cooked frozen food. Um, it's afco approved. Uh, it's not homemade, so it's pretty convenient, right. There's no preservatives, it's preserved by freezing and they they tend to really like it if. But if you've got a cat that's on kibble and you're trying to switch, that's not going to be an easy switch.
Dr Gina Rendon:
Yeah, I have a question for you, lee, sure For me, with kittens and so cats have the different life stages. There's growth, which is usually until about six months to a year for cats, and then there's mature, which is any time after that. There actually isn't a requirement. There's not a difference between or a specific change in the nutrients for mature versus geriatrics, but then there's also gestational, which is the same as kitten food. But so for kittens, I generally recommend dry food all the time, but making sure that they're getting meals of wet food and that they're eating wet food.
Dr Gina Rendon:
And the reason that I do is because kittens are so metabolically active. They are burning calories like the house is on fire. They're so active, and when I've had clients that will only feed wet foods to their kittens, it's exactly what you were talking about, christina. You'll have kittens launching themselves into the plates of the person who's eating because they're so hungry, and so I always just recommend have the dry food out all the time, let them eat that as they get closer to six to eight months, then start weaning them off of the dry food and then a wet food only diet. That's generally my recommendation.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
I don't know if you I mean 95% of our clients feed dry and can't a mix of both, but ideally I'd like to move them a little bit farther on that spectrum. The one thing there is no uniform definition of a senior diet. However, I believe that they need more protein, and that's just my personal opinion, because all these cats as they start getting older Because all these cats, as they start getting older they are wasting their muscle and I know in human medicine, as we get older our protein needs go up to maintain our muscle mass and that's extremely important.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
So the senior diets that are out on the market, that are sold, those are based on individual companies. Whatever they want to do, they just make it up and a lot of them decrease the protein. So I tell clients don't switch your cat to a senior diet, because it doesn't mean anything. It's just a marketing ploy from that food company.
Dr Gina Rendon:
What are you recommending for cats with kidney disease, because those tend to be the older animals? And I agree with you definitely. I mean, there are studies that cats lose protein at a much higher rate than dogs or humans as they age, and so I agree, I think protein is so important yeah.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
Now for the kidney cats. That's a different story. I try to get them on a kidney diet. I try to restrict their phosphorus. If their phosphorus is high, I'll add a different story. I try to get them on a kidney diet. I try to restrict their phosphorus. If their phosphorus is high, I'll add a phosphate binder. I went to a CE meeting it's probably been four or five years ago now and they said that to keep those cats eating, you've got to keep their phosphorus low.
Dr Gina Rendon:
Yeah, yeah, and that I think that's an excellent point, because those cats that don't won't convert to a prescription renal diet if they're eating just a regular maintenance diet, because that's all they'll eat. You can still do a phosphate binder, so it's not like you don't have options there. So I think that's a very, a very good point.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
Yeah, those kidney cats, I just want them eating.
Dr Gina Rendon:
Exactly, please eat eat, yes, and stay hydrated.
Kristiina Wilson:
Drink your drink, yeah yeah, well, I think that's. That's the end of our raw food. It wasn't the bloodbath that we were anticipating. Good job, everybody wait till.
Dr Gina Rendon:
We hit the comments, right, I know that's that's fair.
Kristiina Wilson:
That's that's fair.
Dr Gina Rendon:
There there may be a lot of angry people um we'll see hopefully not.
Kristiina Wilson:
We'll see okay, so now we're just going to get into, uh, the questions from listeners. I do think we've answered many of these already in our discussion, um, but uh, the first one is is canned tuna safe for cats? I know there, at least in our household, and Gina knows, we lost a cat to SCC and my wife went down a real rabbit hole of did we cause this Because we occasionally gave them canned tuna? You know, and there are some studies about, you know, especially canned foods, and you know possibly carcinogens leading to uptick in oral cancers. I don't know if that is what this listener was asking about or if they're just asking about tuna in general, but perhaps you could speak to both of those issues.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
I think canned tuna occasionally. Ok, I worry about the heavy metals and the mercury level in the tuna. I would say try sardines instead, because they're loaded with really good omega-3s and tend not to have the heavy metals. Okay as far as carcinogen, I I do. I can't answer that part of the question I um, I would agree.
Dr Gina Rendon:
You know tuna treats and we were talking about making tuna broth. I think is totally fine. It's not a balanced diet, so if you're just feeding tuna, it doesn't have everything in it that a cat's going to need, and so it's not healthy on its own. So yeah, yeah.
Kristiina Wilson:
What do you feel about? And maybe you don't know anything, maybe this was just Allie's crazy research, but do you know anything?
Dr Gina Rendon:
about the canned food, the carcinogen issue, you know, I think what I know is that everybody blames themselves when their animal gets cancer, and I think it's so, so common for me to hear people trying to figure out what they did that their animal now has cancer. I can't even tell you how many times I hear that, and so I think it's just a natural process of grief. Personally, I think that we are inundated with carcinogens and I think that our animals are.
Dr Gina Rendon:
You know they're, they're sentinel creatures to some degree you know, they are so in the ground, they're sniffing everything, they're taking everything in. They're small and so they metabolize whatever carcinogens are out there and it's, you know, it's one of the reasons why it's the leading cause of death in both cats and dogs as they get older. So, no, I don't think there's anything specific anybody's doing to give their animals cancer, it's just out there. I mean, you know, it's our artificial world, I think Sure.
Kristiina Wilson:
Yeah, completely agree with you, gina. Yeah, okay, all right, thank you for that. I swear I didn't write that question, it's just anecdotally relevant to us. Are churros the ultimate junk food for cats? Is it okay to give them daily? And for people who may not know, churros are little tubes of cat crack. Essentially.
Dr Gina Rendon:
I love them for training.
Kristiina Wilson:
I love them as super high-value reinforcers, a positive reinforcement. They're just, yeah, just tubes of happiness for cats, but I don't even know what's in them. I don't either. Yeah Goo, yeah it tubes of happiness for cats, but I don't even know what's in them. I don't either. Goo, yeah, goo.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
Goo, we use them in the office while we're giving vaccines to cats?
Dr Gina Rendon:
Yeah, absolutely, they're amazing it doesn't work on every cat but it can be really helpful.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
You know, anything that says on the label meant for supplemental feeding is not meant to be. That's a treat. Right, exactly. And a treat should only be 10% of the calories for the day, yeah, so.
Kristiina Wilson:
Okay, well said, what are some good treats? My cat no longer seems to tolerate the treats I used to give Greenies or free dried chicken or Instinct raw bites. Churros are good treats, yeah that's right.
Dr Gina Rendon:
That's yeah. Whatever they'll eat is a treat. Sometimes you know their own food can be a treat. It just, it really depends, depends on the kitty.
Kristiina Wilson:
I'm a big fan of using little pieces of kibble as, again, as you know, in behavior work as the reinforcer. Kibble as again, as you know, in behavior, work as the reinforcer. Rather than using treats all the time. You can just give little pieces of food rather than like, especially if you're working with a cat who may be a little bit on the chunkier side and you don't want to constantly be giving them, um, calorically high snacks. Uh, dry kibble can really work. Um, also, our cats really love minnows like freeze-dried, like it's not only chicken that's freeze-dried and the freeze-dried fish absolutely disgusting, like really. That smell will just hit you when you open the bag. But they are obsessed with the minnows, like obsessed. So that would be something. I would try. Those.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
Those seem to be popular yeah, yeah, I think staying on again the protein side Free-stripe meats, organ meats, stuff like that, as opposed to carb kibble. I mean the kibble food is fine because that's part of their diet.
Kristiina Wilson:
Are there any kind of dietary supplements that are good for cats with kidney issues?
Dr Gina Rendon:
Water yes.
Dr Gina Rendon:
No, there're not, they're actually there are those supplements like. Azadiol is something that's on the market which is a. It's something that's supposed to be a waste trapper and that's considered a nutritional supplement, but there aren't really many studies that show that that actually, that those really help, and so most of the specialists don't recommend them, don't? I don't think they hurt, but there's not really a specific supplementation that you should be doing other than making sure your cat is eating and making sure that they're staying hydrated for for kitty cats okay, um, I think we already answered this, but is a dry food only diet bad?
Kristiina Wilson:
my cat gets crazily food fixated with wet food, free feeding dry at the moment if your cat likes wet food, I would switch to wet food um because the the dry food I still think it has, I mean we've discussed has.
Dr Gina Rendon:
It's too high in carbohydrates and and also the cats that are strictly on dry food tend to be overweight.
Kristiina Wilson:
Yeah, and I would want more information about what does crazily food fixated mean? That's a good one and what can we do to modify that behaviorally, whether we need to give them a go-to spot, you know, whether we need to do some clicker training for that. Like, what can, given more information, what can we do to kind of modify crazily fixated whether it's doling out more small meals, whether it's having sometimes even more predictable maybe they're not that predictable in the house so the cat is like super excited whenever the food comes out. You know there may be something that's a behavioral driver, rather than it's the food that is the problem and free feeding means the food's out all the time, so there's no fixation.
Dr Gina Rendon:
Right.
Kristiina Wilson:
So I would want to hear a little bit more about what, what is the schedule and what's going on exactly, before deciding that it's this is. This is what's happening. And again I think, what food is what food is good? Somebody wanted to know is it okay to give my cat raw quail eggs? I don't know, random.
Dr Gina Rendon:
Maybe they have quails, I don't know A surplus of quail eggs, I think. Like any raw egg, you know, there's that risk for salmonella. So birds carry salmonella as a natural part of their flora and it can be pathogenic to humans. So I think that would be. My main concern is are you frying up your little quail egg and then putting it on the food? She said raw, raw, oh yeah.
Kristiina Wilson:
It's raw, so no.
Dr Lee Nancarrow:
I would say yeah.
Dr Gina Rendon:
I would say no. I would say be careful. Raw, oh yeah, okay, raw it's raw. So no, I would say yeah. I would say no, okay, I would say be careful.
Kristiina Wilson:
Yeah, okay, yeah, if you have local raccoons, you could give the raccoons your surplus quail eggs. Quail eggs, love even rotten eggs.
Dr Gina Rendon:
That's what we do with our eggs, just throw them into the forest and got cameras and the raccoons love them.
Kristiina Wilson:
So give them to your local raccoons. Yeah, they will be very happy. They've got an amazing technique for eating eggs, where they just like tap them and then bite the top off and it's like perfect, they've really it's like they went to egg opening class and then they just like shoot the egg like an oyster yeah, it's so amazing and then they leave these like perfect little egg cups lying around.
Dr Gina Rendon:
And you're just like how do? You guys all know how to do this.
Kristiina Wilson:
It's so good like so delicate and like perfectly done every time. Wow, you guys.
Dr Gina Rendon:
That's hilarious, yeah, anyway, I'm sure everyone wants to know about raccoon techniques for opening eggs.
Kristiina Wilson:
Do you have any tips for cats that eat hydrolyzed food and react to anything non-hydrolyzed?
Dr Gina Rendon:
So if we talked about hydrolyzed foods early in the podcast, but if you do have one of those cats that actually benefits from being on a hydrolyzed diet, which can be because of chronic GI issues or because of skin issues, I my recommendation is to introduce one food item per week. So if you want to test to see like, is my cat reactive to beef? You know, you can maybe add a little bit of beef to the diet and see, do those symptoms that they had before? Do they react to them? If they don't have any reaction, then that could potentially be you know something that you you could switch over to a diet that has like a limited ingredient beef diet. You know, if they're doing well on the hydrolyzed diet, then I don't see really a reason to change. It kind of depends on you know what's going on okay, all right.
Kristiina Wilson:
Well, that was the last question. Wow, we did it Woo.
Dr Gina Rendon:
Yay, that wasn't so bad.
Kristiina Wilson:
We all survived, so I really want to thank you both. Thank you to Gina and Lee for joining me on this talk about cat nutrition, and we all survived. Nobody killed each other, a shout out to us, and thank you to our listeners for being so involved in having so many questions and being so interested on, you know, having great nutrition for their cats. So thank you both for being here and for your wisdom and for caring about cats, thank you, thanks for having us. Yes, thank you, it was fun, that was fun.
Kristiina Wilson:
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today's episode or any of the episodes, please like and give us a rating. Also, feel free to share with your friends. We'd super appreciate it if you shared on social media or really anywhere. For cat behavior consultations go to catitude-adjustmentcom. You can follow us on social media at Hiss and Tell Podcast Music provided by Cat Beats.
