Hiss & Tell: Cat Behavior and Beyond

Enriching Indoor Cat Lives with Dr. Lynn Bahr

• Kristiina Wilson • Season 2 • Episode 23

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Explore the fascinating world of indoor cat enrichment with our special guest, Dr. Lynn Barr, a renowned feline veterinarian and founder of Dezi & Roo. Together, we unpack the critical role of environmental enrichment in maintaining your indoor cat's physical and emotional well-being, revealing simple yet effective strategies to combat the stress and boredom that can arise from confined living spaces.

Ever wondered how to keep your lazy or mobility-challenged cat engaged? We've got you covered. Dive into our enlightening discussion on innovative cat toys, like the Hide and Sneak and the Pop and Purr, which are meticulously designed to tap into your cat's natural instincts. Dr. Barr offers valuable insights into the common pitfalls pet owners face when selecting toys and shares tips on how rotating toys can keep your feline friends actively entertained. Plus, discover the magic of wand toys and creative play techniques that can make even the most sedentary cats spring into action.

We also explore the transformative power of vertical spaces and cutting-edge communication methods like speech buttons, opening up new avenues for bonding with your furry companions. Practical advice on creating vertical escape routes and utilizing suction cup window beds brings a new level of environmental engagement to your indoor cats. Whether you're a seasoned cat owner or new to the feline world, this episode is packed with insights to enrich your cat's life in meaningful ways.

Kristiina Wilson:

Hi and welcome to Hiss and Tell a Cat Behavior and More podcast hosted by me, K Wilson, animal behaviorist. Today's episode is all about enriching the lives of indoor cats, helping them stay active, engaged and mentally stimulated right in the comfort of their home. I'll be speaking with Dr Lynn Barr, feline veterinarian and founder of Desi Ruea, brand that is devoted to enriching the lives of indoor cats, so get ready to discover some creative ways to add more joy to your cat's lives. Hi and welcome to another episode of Hiss and Tell. With me today is Dr Lynn Bar, feline veterinarian turned toy maker and owner of Desi Rue. Welcome, dr Barr.

Dr Lynn Behr:

Hi everyone.

Kristiina Wilson:

So full disclosure. I have a lot of Desi Rue products in the house. I think the favorite one that we have is the paper tunnel. Those are amazing for cats. So a little bit biased here in this discussion today, I'm just, you know, saying that right off the top. Well, thank you, of course. So can you tell us a little bit about your background, your education, who you are as a cat person?

Dr Lynn Behr:

Certainly I grew up with dogs. I did not grow up with cats. I also grew up not knowing I was going to be a veterinarian. Unlike most vets everybody says, oh, you know, they knew their whole life. It was actually a cat that got me into veterinary medicine and he adopted me. I adopted him in 1980.

Dr Lynn Behr:

And quickly just sort of started to speak to me in ways that animals actually have the ability to do, they change lives. I didn't know that until this cat came into my life and fast forward. I went to vet school, became a veterinarian and I was interested from the very beginning in doing only feline medicine. Again, I didn't know I wanted to be a vet but because of this cat I sort of had to Fast forward. 25 years later I have two cats that are my first indoor-only cats, desi and Brew, and they changed my life.

Dr Lynn Behr:

Having indoor cats is a whole new breed of cat cat and I found myself in practice doing a whole lot more workups holistically as far as the household and the lifestyle of the cat and so on, and started to realize how indoor cats are, how different they are.

Kristiina Wilson:

They're very high maintenance.

Dr Lynn Behr:

They're not low maintenance creatures. They're enclosed in four walls. The need for enrichment, the need for fresh air and so many things changed my life again, and so I started to go to the pet product shows, looking for good products that I could recommend to my clients and had a hard time finding many. Particularly 10 years ago, the array of products for cats was almost nil Other than you know little toy, mice, little plastic things. There was nothing there.

Dr Lynn Behr:

I'm also an anti-declaw vet. I feel very strongly against declawing. I've never done a declaw in my career, and so scratch posts are a particular interest of mine. Again, I would go searching and not really finding the products that I needed in order to recommend to my customers, my clients.

Dr Lynn Behr:

So I started tinkering on my own and making them for my cats and realized that I kind of know what cats want and need and I think like a cat, which allows me to really tap into their instincts and to just be able to evaluate the things that they need. The human-animal bond to me is the most remarkable bond strength. It is just incredible and miraculous. So anything that I can do to strengthen that bond is my purpose in life. I quickly realized that in the exam room I did a really wonderful job one-on-one, but that I could have a bigger voice with my company and now with Desi and Rue.

Dr Lynn Behr:

I reach thousands of owners and you know pet parents, and I can just help them on a much larger scale than I could in the exam room, sure. So I retired five years ago and now I run Desi and Rue and we make phenomenal products for cats, you do.

Kristiina Wilson:

It's true. So do you want to talk a little bit about those challenges that indoor cats face in terms of stimulation and enrichment that you know you make the products for? I mean, I think we could talk all day about the problems you know like that come, and I'll just say from my perspective that so many of the cases that I get as as a feline behaviorist come from a lack of stimulation, lack of intellectual stimulation and enrichment.

Dr Lynn Behr:

so let's talk a little bit about that well, not only are the behavioral problems caused by lack of enrichment and the indoor environment, but so do many of our medical problems. So you know, when I first came out into practice all my patients were outside. Then they transitioned kind of indoor-outdoor until very recently where every cat is told it needs to be kept indoors. The medical conditions I used to deal with were abs from cat bites, you know parasites, fleas, ticks, worms, hit by cars, things like that.

Dr Lynn Behr:

They've now transitioned into the itises where it's stomatitis and cystitis and inflammatory bowel disease and the itises which Tony Buffington from Ohio State recognized. The treatment of choice is environmental enrichment.

Kristiina Wilson:

Right.

Dr Lynn Behr:

It's medical issues that are caused by stress and by the indoor environment. I would go one step further and say that I think that we haven't even tapped into many of the downfalls or the conditions of living indoors cause our cats medically and emotionally. For me, it's as simple as little things like lack of fresh air, lack of direct sunlight, the inability to consume grass those, to me, are basic necessities that every cat should have, and so the first thing I teach people who have indoor cats is open the windows.

Dr Lynn Behr:

Yeah it's that easy. It doesn't have to cost you a cent. Just open the windows at least for a couple of minutes every day. When you think about the indoor cat, it's such an unnatural environment for them. You know we're in fall here, it's starting to get a little chilly out. And what do we do? In the wintertime we put on heat. In the summertime, we put on air conditioning and our cats are enclosed in these four walls. And you know they have the normal blowing of the coat in the wintertime, and you know, or in the summertime and building it up in the wintertime, and you know we switched that around. However, fortunately, as we're learning about them and we're recognizing them and we're becoming aware of them, we can now do some things about it.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yes, absolutely. I'll just say cat grass kits are so easy to get. You can often even just buy wheatgrass at your local health food store, so it's already grown for you. I know I've had a lot of clients kind of push back on grass because they're like, oh, but then they throw up and it's sort of like, well, that's the part of the process, is it helps ease hairballs and you know it's sort of like, well, that's the part of the process, is it helps ease hairballs and you know it's, it's good for them to have have cat grass. So I always like to kind of push that. Um, and I know we're going to talk about it a little farther in the discussion, but I think a catio is always a great thing to do if if you can.

Kristiina Wilson:

That was the first thing we built when we moved into this house um and then also also yeah.

Kristiina Wilson:

So they have this beautiful like giant catio that they can go in and out of like all day and they will hang out there when it's freezing because they just want to be outside and so they get to see all the wildlife but be safe. And then a few of them also really like going on harnessed walks. So that's another great choice if you live in an environment where that is safe and you have a cat who is willing to do harness training. So those are just my little suggestions for people as to kind of.

Dr Lynn Behr:

I agree totally. I don't know if you're aware, but I wrote a book a few years ago, co-authored with Laura Moss, and it's about the indoor cat, and in that book we offer hundreds and hundreds of enrichment tips, but also several chapters on how to bring the outdoors in and how to let your cat go safely outside. And you know how to open windows. And there's a window box that I built for my cats that costs $30, $35 and a half hour to make that you can put in every window and at least give cats the chance to have a little bit of direct sunlight, and really the need for that fresh air is so important it is and I think also the opportunity, if it's possible.

Kristiina Wilson:

This is harder for people who live high up in apartment buildings, but the opportunity to kind of stalk and do the prey sequence I think is missing from so many animals lives, and so I really love to encourage the use of suction cup bird feeders right on windows so that you know native birds are safe life. But it's so wonderful, we just throw seeds out in the morning and then our cats, they'll just sit in sun puddles all day, if they're not on the catio, watching birds, chipmunks, squirrels and then at night raccoons, although yesterday we did have a bear which was not great, but the bear didn't. Yeah, the bear didn't eat anything, he just like wandered around and was like oh bye. But they just, they love it, they sit there and they watch and so they get to do the stalking part of the hunting sequence and then they can use little puzzle feeders to kind of do the remainder, to do the like pouncing, killing and eating.

Kristiina Wilson:

So you get to do that full, wonderful hunting sequence. So I like to encourage that for clients also who are dealing with issues coming from lack of enrichment, enrichment or intellectual stimulation. So can you talk a little bit about the problems that can come from lack of enrichment not necessarily the physical problems, because we touched about that a little bit, but did you ever see in your practice people who were relinquishing or euthanizing their pets because they were having these issues, or is that not something that you dealt with?

Dr Lynn Behr:

Absolutely dealt with day in and day out. You know cats and four walls. Even as big as our houses are or as wonderful as our houses are, it's still confinement.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah.

Dr Lynn Behr:

And it affects them dramatically. All we have to do is go back a few years to when COVID hit and we were all within our homes. We went stir crazy very quickly. You know, we have so many options as humans. We had our TVs and we had books and everything and we still had a very hard time coping with that. So I don't think cats are that different. They're enclosed in four walls. They never get to go outside, they don't get to investigate anything.

Dr Lynn Behr:

They have zero choices in their home and that is really the number one issue when you start working on behavior problems is we choose everything for them. We choose what they eat, where they eat, when they eat what they eat out of Like. They have zero choice in most of what they do.

Kristiina Wilson:

Right.

Dr Lynn Behr:

So cats will react one of two ways. They will either act out out of frustration, out of boredom, pent up energy so if it's a multi-cat household household you might have a lot of fights and bullying and things like that. They can be urinating out of box, they can be just, you know, pulling the garbage out, like anything that they can do to kind of release that energy and get that energy out and entertain themselves or the opposite becomes true, and that is they become depressed and they sleep all the time. Now we perpetuate that by saying, oh, cats sleep all the time. You know they sleep 20 hours a day. And no, that's not normal. Cats that are outside really are walking the neighborhood.

Dr Lynn Behr:

Even when they're resting, they're just cat napping. They're still aware Our cats should not be sleeping day and night, and so that, to me, is also a behavioral problem. They're depressed, they're unenriched, and they get to the point where that's all they know, and so they don't play and they don't do much. They interact with us, they want food and they'll lay by us, and for a lot of people, that's all they really want from their cat.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah.

Dr Lynn Behr:

I know.

Kristiina Wilson:

I think I don't know if you want to speak a little bit to kind of not necessarily the history of the cat and go all into that, but into kind of the daily life of a cat who lives outside, or even I don't want to say feral, because that's such a hot button word but a wild cat or a cat making a living on its own out in nature is maybe the best way to put it, and how they tend to spend their day, because I know it's a lot of wandering, it's a lot of hunting attempts and maybe some successes here and there, but it's quite a busy day, so I don't know if you want to speak to that.

Dr Lynn Behr:

So feral cats are in a group of their own, and these are cats that we generally don't see as humans. They're out there, they're surviving. It's a rough life. It's not a great life. They don't live that long because they're born with parasites and they get into fights and they have to deal with the elements and they're preyed upon and life is scary for them because they are preyed upon and yet they have to go out and prey.

Dr Lynn Behr:

But they're a separate group of cats and they don't interact with humans and we really don't have much interaction with them. Then we have your indoor outdoor cats, whether they are strays or they're owned by people, and they go indoor and outdoor and in most environments I actually think they live a great life. You know your barn cats and all of my cats, up until my recent ones, desi and Ruth. They always went in and out, in and out and they had a lot of choices.

Dr Lynn Behr:

They had a lot of enrichment. They would spend their day basking in the sun, you know, checking out the yard, going after prey whether it's a bug or a bird or a lizard, like they're active in that way, eating grass. And so I, my cats, are indoors, but one of my neighbor's cat does go out and we catch him on the camera. He has a regular route that he takes. I mean, of course, yeah, you know it's like us walking around the block and so that's what cats do? They go out and they kind of do their little jaunt and they're normal, checking everything out and who's home and who isn't, and where's their food and what's new today. And they're awake most of the time, cat napping in between to, you know, rest and to build up a little bit of energy. But normally cats that go in and out, when they come back into the house, yeah, they want to eat, yes, they want to curl up next to you, they want to lie on the bed, and those cats generally don't need as much enrichment or entertainment because, like little kids, are out playing all day. Our indoor cats, you know, they walk around. What's new, what is different? There's not much. It's the same rooms and it's the same walls and it's the same furniture and it's the same people and it's the same smells. So we have to do a lot, lot more. In fact, I every day say to myself what can I do different today? I want every day something new for my cat. Yes, absolutely.

Dr Lynn Behr:

It's hard, you know. You have to think of things. It's easy, things like bringing in your mail and dropping it on the floor and letting them smell it and lay on it. Every cat likes to lay on a piece of paper. It is, you know, again, something like opening the window. Just last night I was. I have a wardrobe and I opened it up to get my pajamas out and I was sitting with my cat on the bed and she's looking at it and the next thing I know she jumped over there and she's in it and she's investigating. That's new, that's enrichment. So it's not that hard for us to do. We just have to think about it and work on it and make it a routine and then, once we do that, it gets a whole lot easier.

Kristiina Wilson:

It's true, and I think, as humans, because it's not our primary sense we discount scent enrichment so much. Right, we're so human centric and we're just like vision, vision, vision, and you know that is certainly not a cat's primary sense. And I think scent enrichment is so important and I know you have a lot of scent enrichment stuff. I don't know if you want to talk about some of the scent enrichment toys that you have.

Dr Lynn Behr:

Well, I love to talk about scent enrichment. Yeah, yeah, you know, most people don't realize that when kittens are born, the first two weeks of their life they do not see and they do not hear. They navigate their entire life by scent. It is the most important part of their life. And you're so right, we don't think about it, we don't talk about it and it's lost on most pet parents. But cats smell is everything to them. It's how they learn about each other, it's how they know us, it is how they learn their environment. It is how cats communicate, because their scent is in their urine, it's in their paws when they scratch. So I like all kinds of scent enrichment and that means, every time you eat, letting your cat smell your food. They're not going to eat 99% of it. They're not like dogs. They're going to smell it. They may try it, but most don't even do that. But give them that smell Again, opening up the windows.

Dr Lynn Behr:

What our cats are smelling is our cleaning supplies, what we're washing our clothes in, what we're cooking, if we're burning candles. They are not smelling the outside. They're not smelling their neighborhood. They're not smelling the season. So opening the windows is scent enrichment. I like to use all of the silver vine and catnip and valerian and honeys outside. I bring branches in from outside.

Kristiina Wilson:

It's so very, very important it is, and I think it's also important to stress to listeners to be mindful of your pet scent environment in the home and to not clean off the areas or all at once. Certainly to clean off the areas where they bunt, where they like, rub their faces around the home because they're you know, they're marking their territories in the home and saying this is safe. They're giving themselves little bursts of pheromones and to just be mindful of that. And to really not use scented candles. Those aren't great for cats. To try to not use scent plugins, anything scented really and like scented chemicals, anything bleach, because bleach will kill their scent receptors in their nose and imagine if somebody cleaned with something and made you blind. That would be really scary. So I think it's very similar maybe for them. What is your process for kind of coming up with new enrichment products? Like how do you I don't want to say how do you think of them, but how do you decide what concepts are going to benefit indoor cats?

Dr Lynn Behr:

So I don't really have a particular process. Again, I'm a new entrepreneur, toy maker all of five years but I really everything that I make has to have a purpose. I'm not out to make toys for cats, that's not my intent. It is really to tap into their natural instincts. And so you mentioned the tunnel, the hide and sneak that to me was the most therapeutic product I've ever made. It is to give cats a place to hide, which is essential yes number one.

Dr Lynn Behr:

Every cat needs places to hide and so the hide and sneak it's made out of paper. Every cat goes into paper. The front and back has cardboard. So, like you said, they rub and they said this is mine. It has an entry and an exit so that they can get in and out. They and would start talking about the environment and the cat, and the first thing that new cats do is run under the bed, yep, and they hide, and most new owners will be okay with that for a day or two, but that's it.

Dr Lynn Behr:

They want to bond with this kitty and they want the kitty out from under the bed. So they do everything they can to block off that bed and that would break my heart. So that's how the hide and sneak came about. Cats will preferentially go in that as opposed to under the bed. You know owners can feed in there. They can see the cat in there. It feels like it's safe and that was my way of strengthening that bond and helping that cat out at the same time, right.

Dr Lynn Behr:

So that's how the hide and sneak was developed. One of my cats, roo Roo Roo, is a fetcher, and so the wiggly balls came because of Roo Roo, because she fetches my newest product, the, the Pop and Purr.

Dr Lynn Behr:

Lollipops and candies tap into that scent enrichment. It's the only refillable scent enrichment product that I've seen where you can put anything in it, and again I do. I put bonita flakes in there, I take grass and I take flowers and mash them up and put them in there, and silver vine and anything and everything I can think of. So I just, you know, I know that cats need to hunt and that they like to chase things and that they like to hide and they need scent enrichment. So I look at those and try to develop what, if I were a cat, I would want. Get it. So I feel like I just have some natural ability to really know what cats want. It comes from something beyond me, it's not really me, it's inspired.

Kristiina Wilson:

I totally get that feeling. I get it Right. So do you ever get specific feedback from cat owners?

Dr Lynn Behr:

that has kind of helped you shape what you're up to yes, I typically won't sell a product until I've had like lots of really good feedback. Again, I'm not in the business of just making toys, and everything that I produce has to really be a shining star of a product. So we do have a no-kill cat shelter here and I take toys there to try out. Then what I do is I will typically like right now I'm working on some new wand toy attachments and getting close to narrowing them down to like three or four.

Dr Lynn Behr:

I will pick our top 15 customers who have bought wand attachments and send it to them and ask them to evaluate them for me right then I have a you know my circle of veterinarian friends and I have them look at it to make sure it's good and safe and there's not a safety issue, or you know some reason why I shouldn't produce it. And then again, with as many cat people as I know, I have them test things out and until I get really really good feedback from everyone, kind of consistently on something, then I will put it out.

Kristiina Wilson:

That makes sense. Are there any common mistakes that pet owners make when they're choosing toys for their cats that you could speak to?

Dr Lynn Behr:

Totally. They buy it because they think it's cute, makes sense, not because the cats like it.

Kristiina Wilson:

Right.

Dr Lynn Behr:

An example of that is I was recently, I guess it was two weeks ago. We exhibited at Cat Fanciers Association their international show, which was in Cleveland Huge show, and the assistant that I brought with me has been in the feline world forever. She has been shelter manager, she has four cats. She's an awesome owner and she purchased a few toys.

Dr Lynn Behr:

you know I still purchase a toy at least every two weeks for my cats like I'm always looking for toys, um, and she purchased a really really cute little wool broccoli and, um, she was just. She kept saying this is so cute, I just like this so much. It's so cute. And I knew her cats would not like it because it's just a little stuff, a thing, yeah, wool broccoli. And so I actually spoke to her yesterday and I said, of all the toys that you bought, you know, what did your cats like, what didn't they like, and so on and come to find out, not a single cat wanted anything to do with the broccoli.

Dr Lynn Behr:

Um, she bought one wool spiral that they played with for one day and then they've never gone back to it. Her cat is addicted to our magic carpet. That is one of her cat's absolute favorite toy. But a good toy a cat should, in my opinion, destroy. They should play with it enough that it is tattered in pieces or destroyed. That means they had fun.

Kristiina Wilson:

Anything that is still intact two or three years later means really yeah, yeah, years later, nothing lasts in our house for even one year. But again, right. I also want to point out for listeners that because, as we've touched on, cats are bored easily that you should not have all the toys out at the same time, because then cats kind of can't see anything. So you should only have two or three toys out and then rotate them every few days, otherwise your cats will sort of just not really perceive anything. It's just like it's overwhelming and also like having a toy basket for them to go through doesn't really work in the same way that it does for a dog, so you kind of have to take them and present them. Just these are common mistakes that I see. See people making that?

Dr Lynn Behr:

I see, see people making it's similar to us going into our closet and, despite the fact that we have you know it's, it's full of clothes we can't find a single thing to wear.

Kristiina Wilson:

yep that's why I wear this every day, or some iteration of this, even though I have a closet of great things. I'm just like I don't know. I'll just put the same. Who cares?

Dr Lynn Behr:

Right, we're opening up the refrigerator and thinking you're going to find something new and not shutting it and going back later and opening it up again, and that's how it is with the toys.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, I will say that this week's hottest toy is an acorn top that I brought in. So I love doing that. I was just bringing in random stuff that is non-toxic, also because we have two kittens in the house so it's very careful because you know they are exploratory and they want to try everything. So the bottom part of an acorn is very toxic for people listening. It has tannins in it. You should never let cats play with the bottom part of an acorn, especially if they're babies. But the top part is fine and so I just brought in some of those because I thought again. I thought they were cute and I was like oh look, they're little hats, I'm going to put them on cats heads and take a dumb picture. And then the cats went crazy for them because they roll around in an interesting way. Those were the hottest toys I've seen in a minute. They loved them and because we're out in the forest, we have a plethora, just an unending supply of acorn tops.

Kristiina Wilson:

So yeah, we have a plethora, just an unending supply of acorn tops Wonderful, yeah, I can't recommend enough. Go out into your yard, find stuff that's non-toxic to cats. Make sure that it's non-toxic. Bring it in and see what do they think about it.

Dr Lynn Behr:

Correct. I mean that is my philosophy Bring the outdoors in.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, absolutely. It's always very interesting to see what they're interested in and what they're what they're not like. Have you noticed a shift in kind of customer awareness or demand for these more enriching, stimulating toys that you make believe?

Dr Lynn Behr:

so yeah, one of the real benefits of bringing cats inside and having indoor cats is it really does strengthen that bond because, you know, people are seeing their cats day in and day out and the bond is closer and I find that many, many pet parents are now searching for enrichment toys, searching for good toys and, you know, with the internet and with so many different ways to find products, that they're reaching out and looking as opposed to years before this.

Dr Lynn Behr:

you would have Walmart. You would. You know, even at the very beginnings of Petco and PetSmart, that was about all you had, right, and there's so much more, and some of the best toys are by independent. You know crafty people. So I think that, particularly the younger generation they're treating their pets like children, and just like they shop for their children and they look for toys and they want to bring stuff home, they're doing the same for their cats. So I do think that the public is becoming more and more aware.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, I agree. I think the cat market especially was really underserved for so long, so long, and it is finally kind of getting the attention that it has always deserved.

Dr Lynn Behr:

I agree. It gives me a lot of hope and makes me very, very happy that the awareness is increasing every single day.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yes. So I want to get into a few listener questions. Some of these we've kind of touched on, but one of them is my cat is lazy. Even when playing he lays down. How can I get him to move more?

Dr Lynn Behr:

Well, my first reaction when people tell me that their cats don't play is that they don't know how to play with their cat. Yep, I have yet to meet a cat that I can't get to play. There's a method and a way of playing.

Kristiina Wilson:

Mm-hmm.

Dr Lynn Behr:

And the number one problem is, you know, wand toys. So people, the first thing they do is they hold it in front of the cat's face and they jiggle it. And I tell everybody, you know, a mouse or a bird would never fly into a cat's face.

Kristiina Wilson:

They fly away they run away and so or?

Dr Lynn Behr:

they stop and start right and cats don't go after anything that's running already. It's when they stop that they lock in, that they can judge the distance, that they know what it's going to take or what direction that critter is going to go.

Dr Lynn Behr:

So learning how to play with your cat is sort of essential to getting them to play A lazy cat like that. What I would do is sort of says to me I'm picturing this cat. I may not be spot on, but probably a little bit overweight. Overweight, more food motivated than anything else. So this is the cat that I would be walking around the house while I was dropping treats, just to get the cat to walk around with me. I would then probably have a wand toy or like a long string or you know, like a cat catcher, a charmer, and walk around with that instead of the treats, or in mix that in between the tree so that the cat's following and, yes, it's chasing after this little toy as opposed to treats. Um, I would, if I was sitting on the couch, I'd be throwing treats to get the cat to run to get it. That's how I would start out. I don't know how to be more general about it.

Kristiina Wilson:

No, no, that's fine.

Dr Lynn Behr:

All cats want to play, and the ones that are lazy are either lazy because they're physically unable to play. If it's an older cat, it may have arthritis unable to play if it's an older cat, it may have arthritis, or the cat has just become so accustomed to not playing to an unenriched environment that it doesn't play for that right yeah all right.

Kristiina Wilson:

Why does this is an interesting one. Why does my cat like to scream in my shower periodically? Is it the echo? I feel like that may have just become a behavioral loop that or if it's an older cat, like does it have dementia, right?

Dr Lynn Behr:

crying out for the owner? Um, I know my cat is very, very attached to me and when I come home, you know she's like a little puppy dog. She follows me everywhere and one of the first things I do is go into the bathroom and when I do, if I shut the door, she's crying on the other side. Oh yeah, so is this a matter of, like, a door being shut and the person's in the shower and the cat's crying?

Kristiina Wilson:

I think I read it as though the cat just goes into the shower area into the shower and, like the person's not in the shower, it's like the acoustics of the shower area that the person thinks the cat may enjoy maybe they have found something that's really fun.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, I also have noticed that cats cats tend to really like bathtubs and shower areas because they're cool, because the surfaces is very cool. So maybe the cat was initially drawn there and then screamed once and noticed like, oh, this makes a fun sound or what you know, and then it became this kind of behavioral loop that now he or she is just on like okay, today, as you mentioned, they have their patterns. When they're outside, they go walk, and so cats do that frequently in the home too. Is that they just get on these loops and they're like well, what I do every day is I go in the shower and scream and then I go here and then I, you know, maybe that has happened, I know it'd be fun to kind of see it, it would.

Dr Lynn Behr:

Yeah, I know that there's a reason behind it. It would be fun to figure that out.

Kristiina Wilson:

It would Just a lot of wild speculation at this point. But it is a very interesting question but hard to answer without a visual component. I think Another question is what is good enrichment for when cats can't jump anymore? So I'm assuming cats that are arthritic or have hip dysplasia or other issues. So if it is, a medical issue and if it is arthritis.

Dr Lynn Behr:

We have a wonderful, wonderful new way to treat it, so I had my own cat on it. That's the first thing. I would recommend Silencia, yes, yes, let's get this cat out of pain, and I'm also a big one on massage and, if there's the availability, to have acupuncture or laser therapy.

Kristiina Wilson:

But this sounds to me like a medical issue first Right, and I would also add that, because I've had many arthritic cats that I have had, on the recommendation of our amazing vet, dr Gina Rendon, put them on. It's like an omega-3 fatty three fatty acid supplement called Antonol, and it within two weeks. The change was crazy, crazy. Just on this, you know. Natural it's like a fish oil and you can get in a capsule or as an oil. The oil is pretty stinky but whatever. But the change was night and day. So we didn't even for one of the cats have to go to Silencia because the fatty ass.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, it's great. Do you have any suggestions for in the interim?

Dr Lynn Behr:

Certainly so a lot of things. You know, I always look at things that you could do at home.

Dr Lynn Behr:

So, you can build a tent. You know, the magic carpet is wonderful. It's this plastic sheeting that cats just like to root in. So I would start out with putting a magic carpet down on the ground and let the cat root in it. It's great because you can poke holes in it. I like to put toys or foraging treats underneath it so that cats then just have to kind of rip through and dig through and get to it. Just have to kind of rip through and dig through and get to it. Certainly for this cat something like scent enrichment. I will take silver vine I like silver vine, but catnip's okay too, any scent enrichment and hide toys around, so like put it behind a chair, behind a door, you know, so that a cat has to smell it Right and then root it out and play for it.

Dr Lynn Behr:

I also have a way of doing food and treats where you just do like four or five kibbles on a plate and put plates all over the house again on the floor, but in different rooms or so on. My thought is the cat gets hungry. They should go looking for their food and they'll find a plate. They'll eat the four or five kibbles, just like us when a plate is empty. You kind of feel full and walk away and cat will go back to sleep or whatever. Get up, go back to the plate, see it's empty and then have to kind of find the next one. So anything to kind of get movement around. As I said before, let them follow you as you're dropping treats. You can also like so many of the toys that are on the end of a wand. You don't have to get them jumping, you can just get them chasing after it without getting them jumping. Yeah, so that's good. I would also like to get some vertical things going, not making them jump up, but actually being able to walk up.

Dr Lynn Behr:

You can do that with low shelves. You can put toys on shelves. Cats love to knock things off, so you can, you know, put things around that let them knock it off so they don't have to jump Right. But certainly in this situation, if they're not jumping, there's a medical reason.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, I think also I want to get back to vertical space for cats because that is something we haven't touched on, but I think you could also add in doing some training for the cat, for enrichment and intellectual stimulation. So you could do clicker training or you could do. You could do all different kinds of training for intellectual stimulation which I have found cats of all ages love, yep, because they're they tend to be really smart, they tend to really enjoy it. It doesn't have to take more than five minutes a day. They usually can't tolerate a lot longer than that anyway, but it's something I found they really look forward to. And then you can, if you want to teach them to sit or high five or whatever, but you can also, you know, train them to be carrier trained, which I think is really valuable. You can have them learn to be more comfortable at the vet, to have kind of pattern games, which I think are really helpful.

Kristiina Wilson:

All of that kind of stuff I think could be really helpful for a cat who can't jump. But to continue to provide some enrichment. And I wanted to talk a little bit, since we just touched on it, about vertical space and how that is important Enrichment. Maybe let's talk a little bit about environmental enrichment for cats, since we've talked about so much about toys. Do you want to talk a little bit about environmental enrichment?

Dr Lynn Behr:

Sure, but before I go there, I want to thank you for bringing up that clicker training, because that to me, is phenomenal way to strengthen that human animal bond, to get the cat working on something they love it. They love that interaction and, like you said, if it's just stationing, if it's just learning to take a pill, possibilities are endless. Yes, I can't stress enough how much I love clicker training and thank you for bringing that up. As far as vertical goes, you know, not every cat likes being high, but a lot of cats do, and for those that do, they absolutely should have special places for them to get up high. And it can be a shelf in a closet. It doesn't have to.

Dr Lynn Behr:

You don't have to litter your whole house with things on the wall, but you can strategically kind of place furniture so that they can jump up on the chair and then jump up on the bookshelf. Every one of the shelves in my house have spaces on every shelf for a cat so they can jump up here and wander this way and then jump up this way. It's not hard to do, right Again, even putting like a chair up against a window. Like every cat should have ledges around windows that they can look out from. Yes, and it's pieces of furniture, or you can buy cat trees, or you can buy high scratch posts, but that's the kind of space that cats are really looking for.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, I always think especially about like living in the city. You know you don't want to be like nailing or like screwing stuff into the walls when you rent. That's so annoying to deal with later. But there's really good stuff now that suction cups that holds up to like our 20 pound big boys, so you can get like really nice window beds and we even have some like cat furniture. You know the stuff that comes in like multiple pieces.

Kristiina Wilson:

Here's a big long scratcher, you know tube, and then here's a little seat and here's another little like Heidi area, and they're all suction cupped for windows. So it's so great. So then you can arrange them, and if you're like, oh, I don't quite like that arrangement, you just pull them off and do it, so you don't have this fear of like, oh, now I have to find a stud and I have to go through this production and then if it's not exactly right, I have to patch it. And I think those are so great. And again, as long as you put them up on a clean window and you clean the suction cup, they're going to hold even a big fatty, like some of our big dudes.

Kristiina Wilson:

So I really like to recommend those to people as well as easier solutions than messing with a bunch of cat furniture, because I'm also lazy and I don't want to do that, I agree.

Dr Lynn Behr:

I agree, one of my cat's favorite places is I have a three shelf, just plastic. You know it's just the plastic plastic three shelf and it's up against the window and on top I put her bed and she loves laying in that bed and looking out the window.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah, yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. Is that like giving window space? Is the most important thing that's where our cats are at all times is always in front of a window, if not outside on their catio. So no matter what time of day it is, even if they're asleep, they're asleep in a window, right? They?

Dr Lynn Behr:

want to know what's going on? What some people may not realize is that cats feel safer when they're up higher. Yes, because they are preyed upon, and so you know, being able to be up high and surveying everything below gives them that control and that safety, and you know they'll fall asleep on those windows, right.

Kristiina Wilson:

They feel safe up there. Yeah, somebody else wanted to know what do you think about the speech slash, talking buttons, the AIC, all of that stuff. What do you think?

Dr Lynn Behr:

I don't, because I haven't personally tried it yet, but I find it fascinating that we're moving in these directions. Just, you know, we want to communicate with our pets and we want to know what they're thinking. And it's again, it's just bringing that strength that we feel with these creatures so much closer and stronger that I love that.

Dr Lynn Behr:

I don't know how to evaluate it. I haven't seen enough of it. It's, you know, fairly a new concept, but if there's a chance that it can help us communicate with them, then all the better. As a veterinarian, the things that my silly brain thinks about is do animals get headaches.

Kristiina Wilson:

I always wonder that. And they can't take an Advil?

Dr Lynn Behr:

They can't tell us yeah, they can't say I have a migraine or I have a headache, leave me alone. And of course they must Like. They have bodies like we do, they feel like we do, do they feel like we do? And yet to think that they can never communicate that and that we may never know it. So if there's things that are popping up with technology and so on that can bring us a little bit closer to figuring those things out, then hey, yeah yeah, I think his full disclosure.

Kristiina Wilson:

I did this guy back here, steve, who's my best friend in the whole world, who passed last year, but he, he, I started teaching him to use those speech buttons because I had just seen them during COVID when my lab was closed, and I was like oh let's, let's see if this works.

Kristiina Wilson:

I don't know what it is and he learned in four days but he he was like a sort of genius cat and he was always an amazing communicator before Right. So he, he just was like I could see him put it together and he was just like, oh, okay, great, you know, and it's associative concept training, it's not language or speech right acquisition. But he very quickly was like oh, I just associate this button with this and I only gave him nouns. Essentially he had like outside, eat, you know, brush, like things that were very concrete things. But it really made him even happier because now he could boss us even more, which he was always already very, very bossy, but he could really even clearer get across what it was he wanted.

Kristiina Wilson:

And so, and it made our lives sometimes more difficult because we're like, oh, my gosh, my gosh, stop, like you can't have everything you know. And then he did grasp the concepts of yes and no, which I did think were interesting, and I have yet to see another cat in our group kind of grasp that. But again, he was like a very special guy. But it did help in terms of, I think, giving him a feeling of a sense of control and choice so he could say like, hey, I want to eat or hey, I want to go outside, because that was when we lived in the city and I had to open the door to let him out into our yard, and so it really helped him feel more in control and I think that was super helpful, even though it was annoying to us when he wanted to go outside at two in the morning and we'd say no and he would hit outside 50 times.

Dr Lynn Behr:

But I do think fabulous.

Kristiina Wilson:

I think they're really helpful in that. In that regard, um, or if he could say, hey, I want to play, or you know, hey, I would like you to go, he'd hit birds because he'd want me to go put bird seed in the feeder if it was empty and he wants to watch the birds, you know, those kinds of things were like really, really helpful, because I wasn't paying attention all the time to the seed level or, you know, whatever's going on. I'm very dubious of people whose animals have buttons to represent pain or issues, because how do you teach that and how do you know that it's a one-to-one concept, and how would you even teach that ethically right? I don't know. I don't know, I know, but I would love for that to be able to be something we could figure out in an ethical way at some point. I just don't. My dumb brain doesn't know how we would be able to do that yeah I.

Dr Lynn Behr:

I, at this point, don't but have full confidence that we'll get there.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah.

Dr Lynn Behr:

I mean, you know you were talking about the face recognition like we're learning so much at a, you know, very good pace here, we're making advances regularly to where I see that in the future I think that it's unlimited as to how far we can go with communication with our pets. I hope so. I mean it's already done telepathically, so you know they speak to me.

Kristiina Wilson:

Yeah.

Dr Lynn Behr:

I know they do, so it's.

Kristiina Wilson:

Well, here's hoping, do you have? So that was all the listener questions. Do you have any last thoughts that you would like to share with people? Anything that's next, anything that's in development you would want to talk about? Do you want to just shout out your website? Any anything you'd like to share?

Dr Lynn Behr:

Oh well, my website is DesiRoocom and that's D-E-Z-I-R-O-Ocom.

Dr Lynn Behr:

I really want people to understand the depth and responsibility that they have for an indoor cat, and that is my mission is to just have everybody have that little switch go off that says, oh my gosh, my cat's in four walls, my cat really deserves a lot more than these four walls and just food and shelter and love, and that we start enriching them a whole lot more. We start enriching them a whole lot more. I think that I would in my lifetime love to see the ending of declawing yes, and so it's my deepest passion that we stop mutilating cats for the sake of our furniture, and so I put that out there. I will even go a step further to say that if, because I'm a veterinarian, if you're taking your cat to a veterinarian who does declaw cats, you should think twice about that. I just don't believe those two are compatible.

Kristiina Wilson:

I agree.

Dr Lynn Behr:

So, while I would love for you to come to my website and buy toys, I think you should buy every toy on the market out there, not just mine, but everybody's. Your cat should constantly be having new things in their life. Open the windows, grow grass, find ways that you can let them safely enjoy outdoors again. You know, we people buy houses, they move into a house with dogs and they fence their yard in. I believe every cat owner should be thinking about cat proofing their yard. Yes, get in. It's not just for dogs. We also need to give our cats a whole lot more choices in the home. Don't just, you know, make up everything for your cat, like I said, where you feed them, what you feed them, what you feed them out of, how often you feed them. Give them some choices.

Dr Lynn Behr:

Oh, I could go on and on, and so could you buy my book. It's on amazon. It's called indoor cat how to enrich their lives and expand their world, and I do believe that there's something in there for every cat owner. You will gain so many tips and tricks by reading that. I also blog a couple times a month. You can check that out, but those would be my parting words Do more. Bring the outdoors in. Make every day different. Play with wand toys. I believe in a different prey every day and you'll be rewarded. Everybody listening to your show loves their cat. Everybody listening to your show is already an awesome pet parent period. So we're probably preaching to the choir, but if that is the case, spread the word. Let your friends and family and everybody else know how important it is.

Kristiina Wilson:

Absolutely. Those were great parting words. Love it so awesome. Thank you so much. I just want to thank you, dr Barr, for being on the show. This was so informative and so interesting and I think it's going to be super helpful for all of our listeners, most of whom, I think, have indoor cats. So thank you so much for being on the show and for giving us all of your wisdom.

Dr Lynn Behr:

And thank you so much for having me. It was fun, of course.

Kristiina Wilson:

Thanks for listening, as always. If you enjoyed the podcast, please go ahead and give us a rating and or a review. We'd super appreciate it. You can find our social medias instagram and tiktok at his intel podcast. For cat behavior consultations go to catitude-adjustmentcom. Music provided by CatBeats.

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