Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Stories! As hunters and outdoors people that seems to be a common thing we all have lots of. Join your amateur guide and host on this channel Ken as he gets tales from guys and gals. Chasing that trophy buck for years to an entertaining morning on the duck pond, comedian ones, to interesting that's what you are going to hear. Also along with some general hunting discussions from time to time but making sure to leave political talks out of it. Don't take this too serious as we sure don't! If you enjoy this at all or find it fun to listen to, we really appreciate if you would subscribe and leave a review. Thanks for. checking us out! We are also on fb as Hunts on outfitting, and instagram. We are on YouTube as Hunts on outfitting podcast.
Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Ep.15 Turning Hunts into Art: The Taxidermy Expertise of Todd Turner
What if your passion for hunting could evolve into a lifelong craft? Join us on the Hunts on Outfitting Podcast as we sit down with Todd Turner, an expert taxidermist from River Glade, New Brunswick. Todd's journey into the intricate world of taxidermy began over 35 years ago, inspired by his father’s love for hunting. You'll hear how his varied career path and personal challenges led him back to his true calling – preserving the memories of the hunt in stunning detail. Todd also shares his enthusiasm for bear and moose hunting, offering tips on how to balance work with hobbies and what to avoid when bringing in your prized catches.
Ever wondered what it takes to have your deer mount make it into a prestigious book? You'll find out as Todd recounts the exhilarating moment a deer mount scored 142 and narrowly made it into the New Brunswick record book. From scoring significant mounts to the delights of bear meat, this episode takes you on a journey through the highs and challenges of hunting and taxidermy. Todd sheds light on the nuanced process of mounting small game such as weasels and even provides some shocking revelations about bear diets and how they impact the taste of bear meat.
The episode doesn't stop there. Todd dives into the complexities of maintaining and restoring mounted animals, including the challenges of cross-border shipping between Canada and the U.S. We delve into the red tape of CITES permits, mishaps like bear hide mix-ups, and unique requests such as mounting a young girl's pet rabbit. The importance of proper handling techniques is highlighted, with a heartfelt shoutout to Turner's Taxidermy. This episode is a tribute to the meticulous, demanding work behind the scenes in taxidermy and the camaraderie within this unique field.
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This is Hunts on Outfitting Podcast. I'm your host and rookie guide, ken Marr. I love everything hunting the outdoors and all things associated with it, from stories to how-tos. You'll find it here. Welcome to the podcast. Stories to how to's you'll find it here. Welcome to the podcast. Alrighty, thanks for tuning into the podcast.
Speaker 1:This podcast is brought to you by Eager Beaver Taxidermy. Bring us your beaver, we'll stuff it this week on the podcast. I'm very excited. We have our first ever taxidermist taxidermist Todd the terrific taxidermist Turner. He is a former neighbor of mine. That's how I met him. It's really interesting.
Speaker 1:Whether you're from southern US or northern Canada, I think this pertains to you if you've ever had anything taxidermed. We learned a lot on here Some bit of maintenance stuff, bit of what not to do for your taxidermist when you bring it to them. We learn a little bit of behind the scenes and what these guys go through In the background. On this podcast you're going to hear somebody talking away and it's somebody familiar if you've listened to this before Dalton Patterson. He's been on this show several times, both as a storyteller and a co-host commentator host commentator. If you guys get any joy or likes out of this particular podcast, we ask that you guys, uh, just share us out, that's it, that's all share. So tell people about it and, uh, let's just get into it. Hope you enjoy. All right, and we have todd. Todd is a former neighbor of mine. I had another neighbor who was a taxidermist and a vet on the side and his slogan was no matter what happens to your cat, you'll get it back. Now, todd, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:Todd, before we get into all this taxidermy talk, which I'm really excited about, I just want to know who's everyone listening to.
Speaker 2:Just to give you a little bit of your outdoor background kind of thing and where you reside. Okay, I'm living up in River Glade area in New Brunswick, canada, and I got I started taxidermy probably 35 years ago almost now.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And I didn't do it full time at first. First I just did friends and family and one thing, another and and uh uh, had several different types of jobs and just about five years ago I decided but you always kind of did taxidermy on the side with everything else, okay, yeah yeah, so about five years ago I got into it full-time again. I was into it full-time once, yeah, and marriage went south. Actually she went south, west, north she went everywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just like a compass out of control sort of thing.
Speaker 2:It happens, but uh anyway, yeah. So uh got away from that and got things straightened around, get life going again and you're an avid hunter as well I love hunting yeah I'm an addict. It's, it's, uh, it's actually. The job is taken away from my pastime.
Speaker 1:And a fisherman too. Yeah, I like fishing.
Speaker 2:I'm not a great fisherman, but I really enjoy it Like being on the water, whether I catch or not. I got a little boat, 15 footer.
Speaker 1:What do you primarily like to hunt? You're kind of a bear guy a little bit, aren't you?
Speaker 2:I hunt bears. I got a couple of nephews that are supposed to get into it this spring, so I've got a bunch, got three sites going and and bears coming to all them. But I love deer hunting. It's my, my I wouldn't say my favorite moose is my favorite, but I don't always get to go for that, of course.
Speaker 4:So so who? Who got you started in hunting?
Speaker 2:my father. Uh, he was an avid hunter. Uh, probably no better fisherman than I am, but a very good hunter.
Speaker 1:I don't think anyone's really that great of a fisherman. They just act like they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:He's always the one that got away stories.
Speaker 4:Did it get away, or did you even get it? That's right, but yeah, so your dad get you into hunting? Yeah, way back when.
Speaker 2:He started carrying me on his shoulders when I was three, I guess.
Speaker 1:Really Well immersed into the outdoor world, right?
Speaker 4:Yes, that's commitment. I've got a two-year-old. He's actually upstairs with Ken's wife.
Speaker 1:Yes, dalton wouldn't have him at the farm auction for more than 10 minutes on a no, so I can't imagine carrying a three-year-old, so that's commitment. Actual hunting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was a strong willed band. Yeah, he got me into it. And when I was 12, I guess I was able to start small game hunting and get all my permits and rig courses and all that and just kind of snowballed after that.
Speaker 1:I was quite an addict at it really for quite a few years and I've had to slow down some and that's what got you into the taxidermy, because I mean, what made you see an animal that was dead and be like you know what? I think I can make him look alive, but he's still going to be dead. I mean some people, you know, I don't know if this is how taxidermists are. When you're driving along the road, someone says, oh, there's roadkill, but you're seeing a masterpiece, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:you know, occasionally I do Someone's like, oh geez, look at that bear. And you're that that bear, like his face, isn't broken, yeah, I could make something out of him, that's right. So I mean, so you were hunting and then you know, you just thought why not bring these animals to life? But they, they're still dead I well, I actually.
Speaker 2:It was a neighbor of mine that I was hunting with I I had.
Speaker 2:I had been successful different years, but I'd never gotten a really big buck. And this year I was hunting with his neighbor and and, uh, I, I shot it and and it was at quite a distance and when I got to it it was still alive, so I was going to shoot it in the head to finish it. Yeah, that was just the normal thing that I was taught to do, and and my neighbor grabbed the gun and pulled down. He said don't shoot it in the head, you'll want to mount that. It never, ever, crossed my mind before that.
Speaker 1:Okay, you just kind of had the antlers before.
Speaker 2:So, how old would you have been then? I would have been 25 probably.
Speaker 4:Really, really.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah. So I took the thing home anyway and got a hold of a couple friends, gary and Charlie Quinlan, and they were doing a little bit of taxidermy at the time and they both helped me out to do my first one, and then after that I just kind of gradually picked things up on my own. I never had any real instruction or anything like that.
Speaker 1:Not a mentor with the taxidermy thing per se.
Speaker 2:Not really.
Speaker 1:No, we've had a lot of guys on here that say they learned something from youtube videos. But uh, guessing how you've been doing as long as you have. That wasn't the case for you I did.
Speaker 2:I did uh get a few videos on on different things. So not on, not on mammals, on birds and and and that sort of thing. But uh no, I I I just got a little bit of help from those guys and it was helpful also. Later in life I started selling the mannequins that are inserted into the hides.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And so I met a lot of different taxidermists and most of the guys are pretty closed mouth they don't want to, because they don't want any competition. They don't and so they don't want any competition, they don't, and so but, but there was, there was a couple of guys that when they saw me working, they come in to pick up the forms.
Speaker 1:They'd they'd say you know, if you do this and oh, little, little tipsy and little breadcrumbs kind of thing, and the end, because it's all about the finished product.
Speaker 2:It's, it's yeah, it's not just on how to tan a hide or anything like that, but it's the finished product that people see. So yeah, yeah, yeah so what is it?
Speaker 4:so if you look at 10 different deer mounts, we'll say we'll start with deer because everybody wants to talk about deer. So why is it that 10 different deer mounts are going to look 10 different ways? Like? You know what I mean, or maybe's just I'm sure you see it more than I do, even where you know how to do it, but to me they all look different, like the way the ears are pinned, or the color of the ears, or the.
Speaker 1:There's many different mount forms right.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Or is it one size fits all, or no guys? No, no, no, there is several. No guys, no, no, no, there's, there is several.
Speaker 4:But even just the coloring. I know, I know the hide itself can be different too, but like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I don't know. To me they all look a little different one to the next, so the deer look different in the woods, Dalton.
Speaker 4:Yes, of course, but anyway, so why? Why do you think that is Like what, what?
Speaker 2:is it Most taxidermists have have a certain way that they pin the ears. I can look at a deer and I can tell you exactly who did it. Oh, cool In the immediate area, like out of, say, three or four taxidermists. I know who did that deer, by the way, he pins the ears. Some of them do the eyes differently.
Speaker 2:Yes, I don't always do every animal the same. A deer, I will try and get the eyes very similar in every occasion, if I can, and and the ears I don't. It depends on the size of the animal if it's a if it's a smaller deer, the guy doesn't want to see the ears pinned way out sideways he wants those years he wants the rack a little bit yeah he wants the antlers to look big, so okay, I mount some deer.
Speaker 1:You probably just cut the ears right off, yeah like the hunter field occasionally oops yeah, yeah, well, yeah, where's the ears? Like well, you'd be saying where's the rack if I put them on, that's right, that's right all right.
Speaker 4:So you got into, you get into your part-time taxidermy, right, basically for family and friends, and and then how does it transition into going full-time?
Speaker 1:I guess getting better at it yeah, I'm making money.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you want to, you want to, uh, you want to make money for sure. But that wasn't my first inkling.
Speaker 1:I guess I'll back up just a little bit. There, I guess we're getting to it. What did you mainly start with? You didn't start with deer, did you?
Speaker 2:I didn't start, you didn't start.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I thought sometimes like played around with like squirrels or something, but really no.
Speaker 2:The first amount was the deer that I got uh, okay yeah, um, and actually I just got it scored actually at that show in fredericton actually oh really, yeah, how to do it just made it in oh really, yeah, so was it 140 one. What was it?
Speaker 1:142, maybe something like that okay yeah, for nebranza, we could just made it in. So the brands of greco book yes, yeah, 142, uh net uh, yes, yeah, that's a big deal, that's a big deal that was the one you got when you were 25.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's cool, yeah but it seems like don't let me say this the wrong way, todd, but like the next generation right, like I don't want to say older, because that's not, that's not right, but it is. I guess the older generation always has those stories where they shoot some giant. You know what I mean. Like you always hear, you always hear that. It's just funny, yeah, funny that you have that story too, from when you were 25.
Speaker 1:Finally got it scored now.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Just out of curiosity.
Speaker 2:I guess I scored it myself, but when we were at the show in Fredericton there this winter there was a guy right across the aisle scoring them and I wasn't going to, and then I thought, well, geez, he's not busy now, so I took it over.
Speaker 4:So were you close? Was I close on score when you scored it to that I can't remember.
Speaker 2:Actually I thought it was under. It seems to me I scored it at like 136 or 138. Oh, that's not bad you wouldn't hire me to score deer, for sure.
Speaker 1:No, I know someone else that scores deer a little high too. Yeah, you're a lot closer than the other killer by a lot, so you did start with deer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started with deer. I didn't mount much other than deer for a while and then I started into the bears. It's weird, because I hunted a lot of my life with just a bow, a compound bow, and I would only use the rifle last week of the deer season. Oh yeah, Just to try and make sure I narrowed down my chances a little more and uh but uh, I wouldn't hunt bears because I didn't think I'd eat them.
Speaker 2:So okay I was to a wild meat dinner in sussex one evening and and they had every kind of meat you could think of uh, porcupine and like, really the whole gamut like. And bear meat, believe it or not, was the very best meat they had.
Speaker 1:I love eating bears. Spring bear I've never eaten fall bear, I don't know what they're like, but spring bear, yeah, 100%. I'll take it right off the bear, right onto the barbecue.
Speaker 2:I don't hunt them in the fall much and I don't hunt them as much as I used to.
Speaker 1:They're harder to hunt in the fall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they are yeah, really, I think I ate porcupine once, because when we were younger.
Speaker 1:There's some guys that got their four-wheeler stuck at this camp and we got them out and they're like thanks, boys, here's some porcupine jerky, we're like oh yeah, and then we ate it later and we're like you know, this is not like any kind of jerk I've ever eaten before, like maybe we did just eat porcupine, I don't know, toothpick for later, but I think we did so it wasn't bad.
Speaker 4:I think everybody's actually been present. Pleasantly surprised the bear I was yeah, I, I thought the exact same thing. I was like I'm not eating that freaking old bear. Yeah, freaking eats garbage, right, well, that's the.
Speaker 1:That's the misconception, I think 100 percent yeah there used to be so many open dumps around that they really did taste like that, but now there's not, or they're not supposed to be. Yeah, so they are a lot cleaner eating that's right.
Speaker 4:I think, yeah. Well then, there are no. Yeah, exactly, you compare the way our food system makes food. Now, right, I mean, that's, that's some of the clean stuff you'd ever eat.
Speaker 2:That's right, and and 80 if you research from 80 to 90 percent of their diet is vegetation yeah yeah, they will eat raw meat if they can. Yeah, and if they get an animal, they'll a lot of time they'll bury it and let it start to decay.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:I had a probably shouldn't say it, but a warden offered me a roadkill one time.
Speaker 1:To eat, no to take to a bear bait, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:So I tied it to a log.
Speaker 1:Was it a while ago?
Speaker 2:It was Because they're pretty touchy about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they are.
Speaker 2:I tied it to a log and one bear tried to drag it away. I had pictures of it and then after that they never pulled it anywhere. But when the bears come into the site after about two weeks of this, there was so many bugs on that deer. There was a wave of bugs coming away from the deer, and that's what the bears were after the bugs.
Speaker 3:They're more, okay, more protein in the bugs than there was in the animal.
Speaker 1:So really, yeah, yeah, I suppose, and like you know this time of year. They're just. They're grazing grass just like a cow would yeah, really, you know, in the spring um. So you're yes. Anyways, back on to taxidermy a little bit but uh so you, you were doing deer is small game harder it is.
Speaker 2:Uh, I I did a weasel for a fellow last winter, and I mean everything that has claws. You have to skin them right down to the, to the last knuckle that, that their claw is hooked to yeah, yeah, yeah so it's, it's they're a small animal yeah, yeah, and my fingers aren't as as agile as they used to be so no
Speaker 2:and then do you do fish? I don't do fish I started to do a fish once and I got it mounted see, that seems really difficult yeah, fish is, uh, a lot of the. The work with fish is the finished work. It's the painting and the airbrushing and and I mean I've been using an airbrush for probably 25 to 30 years and and I'm still not an artist with it like no but for for most big game you don't have to be so no, yeah, so you don't really do.
Speaker 1:What about birds? All the feathers? I do birds, but I don't like do feathers. What about birds? All the feathers? I do birds, but I don't like to Do. You have to carefully place each feather in In a way, really Holy cow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when you're finished, when it's mounted, if the feathers aren't setting properly, that's the way they're going to be. Once it's dried, it's the same as a deer. If you took that deer and brushed the hair backwards on it and let it dry that way. That's the way it's going to be, I suppose. They don't move. Once they're dried, they're there, there's a lot of precision work.
Speaker 2:It's you got to be. And patience you got to make sure you pay attention to it when it's, when you're finished with it. It's got to be the way you want it and you have to use the right epoxies and glues and pin everything properly, because if it's not pinned enough, when it shrinks it's going to shrink some, it'll move a little bit and you'll have a big crater around the eyeball or the nose or something like that.
Speaker 1:Was it a lot of trial and error when you first started?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had some friends that weren't very enthused with me.
Speaker 1:I think we've all seen those in an old gas station or bar like the big old bug-eyed deer, the coyote that looks like he's got mange and part bear in him. The German restaurant here.
Speaker 4:We've got a Bavarian restaurant here that's got mounts on the walls from God knows when. They could be from Germany, I have no idea.
Speaker 1:They're horrible.
Speaker 4:Yeah, some of those deer have even been it's character though you know it's character. Yeah though you know what the character? Yeah, oh yeah, terrible taxidermy. I think there's actually some pages on facebook and they are hilarious, I bet, I bet. So one thing I wanted to ask you. So your first year you mounted that, right, that was your first year that you ever mounted? Um, how do you look at that mountain? Now I actually judge it.
Speaker 1:Yeah oh yeah, I judge all my work yeah yeah
Speaker 3:yeah, like I haven't mounted anything for myself, look how far I've come, kind of you judge it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I judge all my work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like I haven't mounted anything for myself.
Speaker 1:But you always think, look how far I've come, kind of thing, not look how poorly I did Kind of. I guess Glass half full, you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I remounted that deer actually.
Speaker 3:Oh, you did.
Speaker 1:Three years ago because I wanted one to take to a show, show and and the the deer had downgraded so badly over 30 years or more that that I thought I don't want to show this to anybody and say I did it, so so I re-shown it.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, yeah, someone else probably did it, yeah, yeah so yeah, I remounted it, but okay most of my work uh for myself is so old that I don't really even display it anymore. Some of it's in closets or in oh really storage yeah, is there, I guess.
Speaker 1:Well, we're kind of working with that subject. Is there anything? When someone does get something, taxidermed maintenance is there maintenance involved in keeping it like you have to brush it the best?
Speaker 2:way to maintain anything really that I can say is with an air hose.
Speaker 1:I was going to, yeah, to blow it off, get the dust off it.
Speaker 2:Yeah like a bird you wouldn't want to take 100 pound pressure and blow it off. But a bear, the more you blow it down with a bear with high pressure, it fluffs the hide back up and blows the dust out of it.
Speaker 1:So that's all, the mainly all the maintenance. Yeah, two of them kind of thing.
Speaker 2:I refurbished some animals. I did a musk ox for a girl there last last summer, that's cool. Yeah, it's the first time I ever did a musk, ox.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it was rough. She, her father, had gotten it decades ago. Yeah, I, I had to tear part of it apart to restore it and and uh uh, it came out good for the first time I ever did one, but that's. That's neat. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was kind of fun to to do it yeah, I've never.
Speaker 1:I've never seen a muskox before in person no, I've only seen a few online. Yeah, yeah, right that's neat, uh, so going into the uh, there's a lot of stuff to cover here, todd, it's really interesting. Um, so when you came down here, we started talking about this the cross borders shipping.
Speaker 1:So we're in canada and you do work for different outfitters in new brunswick here right new brunswick, canada, um, and then a lot of the hunters are american and they want their trophies sent back over. But you said, there it's. There's a little bit of a process to it. I thought it'd be quite simple, you just kind of throw it in the pickup truck and away you go, but not so much anymore.
Speaker 2:No, you have to have for bears at least you have to have CITES permits because they're protected, because for years they were well, for years they would kill an animal, kill a bear, just for the gallbladder.
Speaker 1:Oh, and they'd sell the gallbladder Right, that's on the Asian market, right? Yes, I've heard of that and I guess paws and different things.
Speaker 2:So they're protected. So you have to have permits that come from the government. They have to know who shot it, they have to know everything about it, where it's going and all that.
Speaker 1:Was it grass about it?
Speaker 3:where that, where it's going, and all that was a grass bed or yeah, yeah, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:So so you have to right. Yeah, so they have to. Uh, you have to get permits for each one, and the permits come from from fredericton here, new brunswick. And so I started this this spring trying to get permits, and there's one lady that takes care of it nice lady, and she.
Speaker 2:She wasn't answering her messages, she's not that nice so this went on for two weeks and then the next week I called and still no answer and I didn't leave a message, I just called. I decided to call the other number that I call when I buy my taxidermy license. I said what's up with the woman that does the? She says she's on vacation. I said, okay, nobody's taking her place.
Speaker 4:No, just shut that department down.
Speaker 2:Well, they did they did, honestly, they did the government of New Brunswick. It was unreal. So I was over six weeks getting permits.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:She came back and I talked to her and I was nice to her.
Speaker 1:Where the hell did you go for six weeks?
Speaker 2:She is a nice lady so I didn't want to give her off time. She said she had over 400 emails to answer when she got back, if you can imagine.
Speaker 1:And taxidermists, like here in New Brunswick. Questions.
Speaker 2:So she got me the permits and but but it held me up because I had so many hides and mounts going across the border and, anyway, along with that I had some moose to do. I had never shipped a moose across the border so I didn't think there would be any problem with it. But nobody wants to ship a moose, nobody wants to ship taxidermy. You can get bears to ship.
Speaker 1:Yeah live moose. I could see why someone wouldy you can get bears.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Live moose I could see why someone would find that a pain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no one wants to ship taxidermy moose, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can imagine the shippers like, oh, it's dead. Oh, no, we'll do those. Yeah, after the last time with Rick, we're not doing live ones anymore. Yeah, it can be done, though I don't want to scare any American hunters away from getting their asses backstabbed, but it can be done.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of just starting the process. I thought it. I didn't realize it was going to be this difficult, because you don't need a CITES permit for a moose. You need a permit saying that it was legally taken and who it was taken, by what day, all that sort of thing and where it's going.
Speaker 1:Would the outfitter be a part of that?
Speaker 2:No, no, just the shooter Was it legally taken.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you bet, yeah, yeah, of course, is that what you need.
Speaker 2:They give you all the information you need and that's it. Then you're in your ballpark. But I'm just kind of getting into that and nobody in New Brunswick wants to ship it, so it looks like I'm going to have to get paperwork for it and take it to the border cross and then give it to somebody to ship.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:Two of them are going to Texas.
Speaker 1:Guys, they shot moose. Yeah, that's cool yeah.
Speaker 4:So is it quite an added expense to do all that? So say, somebody comes down right shoots a bear, we'll say Is it quite an added expense to do all that? So say, somebody comes down right, Shoots a bear, we'll say, Is it quite an added expense to get the permit and to chip it and all that? Like is it?
Speaker 2:It's time. Okay, expense isn't too bad, but it's time, which is kind of expense in the end.
Speaker 4:Time is money yeah.
Speaker 2:Six weeks was a little much.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I'm going to try and contact Mr Holland about that. Yeah, and the outfitter one of the outfitters I deal with, Larry Davidson. He runs Taxis River Outfitters. He's the man that I got the moose from and he also said he's going to contact him because the process is just more drawn out than it really should be.
Speaker 1:Well, you think our neighbors, you know, right there we're all part of North America it'd be simple. Surprisingly, it's not.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I never really thought of that Because, like you know we were talking earlier, I've heard of guys from Africa waiting two years. That's understandable. We're cutaways from Africa and all that, but our neighbors right next door.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You think it would be more simple. I just started reading on it just before I got here and it could take me up to six weeks just to get a permit.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, depending on where barbara is on vacation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah she's down safe or not?
Speaker 4:yeah, so another question, I guess sorry to sidetrack you there, but taxidermy license. So what's? What's that entail? Is that just permission to have?
Speaker 1:it entails you to taxidermy or like what's that?
Speaker 4:what's that for? I guess what's the purpose of it?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's just so that you can legally have hides and antlers and and skulls and that sort of thing on your premises and you have to keep an you have to keep a good track of what you've, what you're doing fresher, because anybody can have skulls in their place, if it's not human, I guess, and uh, and they're, and you have to keep a good track of what you're doing.
Speaker 1:That refresher, because anybody can have skulls in their place, if it's not human, I guess, and they're older sort of thing. But that's for fresh stuff, right, yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's not expensive. You call this number and they send it to you. You give them a credit card number but you want to know where you're keeping them on your property, all that stuff like you can't you ever freak him out, like in my bed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, yeah, we'll just mark that down.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's hell I feel like stuff could get really shady if they didn't regulate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, yeah yeah, and I've heard of guys that kind of run the fine line. But yeah, I I you were talking about pet peeves. Yeah, I have one that, one that, and it caused me some problems this spring. I I have some memory issues now, so uh, but I had two, two nice size hides, bear hides. I put them both in the tumbler which I used to clean the clean the hair.
Speaker 1:And one thing, another there's sawdust in there isn't there and it kind of takes the uh like the fat off, takes the oils and the grease, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I had them both in. One of the hides that I received didn't have a tag on it. Now, this all started when you'd be able, became able to register online, so people would register it and they'd think, okay, it's done good. So they had this sticker in their glove compartment or wherever their wallet and they didn't put it on the animal. And this happened to me. I color code Velcro strips and put them through the nose of the hide all different colors so that I keep them straight that way, and then I have another one with the hide with the name on it. So if I put them in the tumbler together or whatever, something happens. Anyway, this is what happened and one of the hides didn't have a tag. The other one caught on the inside of the tumbler Okay, as it's tumbling and the tag ripped off it. So it pulled out and I guess I probably should have called the customers and said like what, what did your animal look like?
Speaker 2:yeah like, did it have white on it? Or one of them had white and one of them didn't. Anyway, I thought I knew which was which. So I made it into a rug and I and I called the customer and I dropped it off. Actually, people I'd known for quite a while and and I screwed up, yeah. So the other one went up north and I had to call the guy and say, look, I'm sorry, but I gave you the wrong hide, so it's all getting straightened out. It happens.
Speaker 1:I uh, yeah, I got. I, yeah, don't feel bad because I've heard of it my cousin's husband in Nova Scotia. He got a really nice buck a few years ago and he dropped it off at Taxidermist. It was a nice buck, it wasn't a massive one. So then he picked it up about a year later and he thought it looked real big. He's like holy shit, I didn't think it was that big. He's like well, it's been a year, you know, I guess I forget what it looked like. So he brought it home, put it up and he was saying how his dad came over and his dad's like that's not your deer, you fucking idiot. So he, um, he's like it's not. I said, yeah, I didn't think it was that big. It looked real big. It's like, yeah, it's not. So he called the taxidermist. He's like oh yeah, shit, I gave you the wrong one. He said that's never happened before. It's like, I don't know, I think it has.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, mistakes happen. Yeah, this is a first for me, but hopefully the last, because it's been a rough lesson. But I still haven't picked one of them. I got to make a special trip now to up north to get the other ones.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah. Have you ever done any unique projects People have asked you to do their cats, dogs. They've asked you, but you haven't done them.
Speaker 2:I have been asked and I always say no. I did do. One young girl from not too far from here, I think Her and her grandmother came in with a rabbit about three years ago and the little girl was in. She wasn't a little girl, but she was a teenager. You could tell she had been upset, she had been crying and their dog got a hold of the pet rabbit and killed it. So she wanted him out.
Speaker 1:So I couldn't say no to her the dog or the rabbit. She was real mad at the dog.
Speaker 2:Probably yeah. I think he slept outside for a while, yeah, that'd be hard to pass up, yeah, so I had to do it. And actually that was the first rabbit I ever did.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, so I, I had to, I had to do it, and actually that was the first rabbit I ever did. Oh, yeah, yeah I kind of like to get one done just where I've got the beagles and hunting rabbits.
Speaker 2:I always thought it'd be good for for a decoy, like for hunting coyotes.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, true yeah just tie a string to it, the end of the string on the end of your foot, just kind of jiggle it a bit.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, any movement would be good. I've seen decoys the coyote sees that before your foot, so any other unique projects, like anything off the wall.
Speaker 2:Musk ox. I guess that was the biggest one, I guess. Yeah, that was kind of neat and I didn't know. When I looked at it I said I don't know what I can do with it.
Speaker 1:Like I never dealt with them before. That's a weird looking moose, but I'll see what I can do.
Speaker 2:They got long shaggy hair and they've got hair in the hair like clumps of they're an odd
Speaker 3:animal, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But I was really happy with it and she was, she was happy with it, so so what, what, why don't we list off the animals that you do, since we're, we're really what you mainly do yeah, like we're really what you mainly do, yeah, like what you take on, kind of thing. The biggest thing I do I guess the most I do is bears, because they're that's the most over deer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, I do quite a few deer but more bear.
Speaker 2:There's more people successful hunting bears, I think, and and more people are intrigued by bears, so when they get one, if it's their first one, they want to mount it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, mine's behind you there. That's my first one. It's nothing massive, but it's cool.
Speaker 2:People get a spike horn. Even if it's their first, they probably don't want to mount it. Some people do, some people don't. Depending on the situation, but bears people seem to.
Speaker 4:Yeah, nobody judges size, right If you mounted a spike horn buck quite honestly, somebody's going to judge you, right?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, somebody's sitting across from you.
Speaker 4:But, like I never even thought of the size of that bear until we said that right, it's not that small, but it was my first, but yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent so you do bear deer. Moose, yeah. So you do bear. Deer moose, yeah, moose. I do a lot of moose. I love doing moose. I think I like doing bear because you do so many different poses with them.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, but.
Speaker 2:I love. My favorite animal to hunt is moose. I love hunting deer, but my favorite is moose because you communicate with them, yeah, so I really like to have a nice finished moose, like people always seem to be happy.
Speaker 1:Are they easier to work with where they're bigger in a way, so there's like more room for air kind of thing when you're stitching them up, or I guess there probably is, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:The hair is longer and that sort of thing, so so.
Speaker 1:Just more to work with over. You know a weasel? Yeah yeah, or something. Yeah yeah, I'm not fussy about doing weasels, I do them, but I'm not fussy about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Uh, but um, moose, moose is heavy, it's a heavy animal to work with. Yeah, Like uh the hides when they're soaking wet. I mean you have to put them on a wash machine to wash them so you get them full of water. They're soggy. The back of a moose is three eighths to a half an inch thick the hide, so, yeah, so they soak up a lot of water over time.
Speaker 1:They would yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yes, sir.
Speaker 2:One of the ones I did this winter was a monster. A guy got up north and he was an outfitter and he got up north and he wanted it for Christmas. So I said, okay, I'll do it. It was so heavy that I had to stand on top of the washer.
Speaker 4:To lift the hide out of it, oh really.
Speaker 2:It was unreal. I thought I don't know if I could do this by myself. I used to be quite strong, but I'm not anymore could do this by myself.
Speaker 1:I used to be quite strong, but I'm not anymore.
Speaker 2:And yeah, you have a special kind of washer, or just no, the old whirlpool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maytag um yeah, well, the maytag one's pretty good. Um, so then I guess that's going to bring us to the next thing. What are some of your pet peas with hunters that they might not realize they're doing when they bring you an animal, like like we were talking earlier, when somebody brings you, just you know, from around the jowls up and they're like, yeah, I want a shoulder mount on this, like, well, that's uh wishful thinking, but kind of thing.
Speaker 2:But I'm sure you get that, don't you? Oh yeah, I got one last night, oh guy called me the day before he said I got a bear. He said I hope I left enough cape on it for you.
Speaker 1:I want a shoulder, just the ears up in your head.
Speaker 4:You're immediately thinking there's not, because he said it. Right, right, right yeah.
Speaker 2:When someone says that there's chances are, yeah yeah, chances are it's not so, but he brought it to me. It was right behind the ears. There was not near enough.
Speaker 1:I don't want the pause sticking out on this one. Where when are they? Yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah. So yeah, I told him. He said well, can you mount it that way? And I said I don't want to. I said it's not going to represent the animal. So I said I occasionally have hides that people decide they don't want, so I can cut a piece of hide off that animal and put it on your head.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And it'll be a finished bear. When you get it back you won't know the difference. But so he agreed to it and I charged him a little bit more for it, and he was good with it. So yeah.
Speaker 1:So I mean, what can you recommend to hunters bringing in, say, a deer or a bear, and they want a shoulder mount?
Speaker 2:If you want a deer or a bear shoulder mount, done the best thing. If you're not sure how to skin it out, the best thing is to make the incision down the back.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:You don't see that part of the animal generally. No, and the hair is longer on it and it actually makes the animal easier to skin.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Because you have to tube down the legs. Uh, even with a chest mount on a deer, you have to cut down the back of the legs to uh, to skin it out. So, if you cut up the front, it's harder to hide a deer, as long as it's not above the brisket. You can hide it because there's more hair there and that sort of thing. But you get deer once in a while and you can do it. But it's pretty hard to hide them if they cut them right up to the throat.
Speaker 1:You've got to stitch that.
Speaker 2:It's got to be flat when it goes to dry because it's going to move a little bit. Everything is going to move a little bit. Shrink some.
Speaker 1:Have guys brought you like a headshot deer and want it mounted?
Speaker 3:yeah, they have I figured, I figured asking that question. They have right, obviously but, I had a friend.
Speaker 2:He's a nice guy. He didn't tell me the whole story. He shot a deer he sold me, told me he shot it like 450 yards away. He hit it in the head. The bullet come out the other side. It was bigger than a loony coming out the other side.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I said, man, that's some shot. But I found I figured out later that it wasn't the killing, it was the killing shot that one yeah. He hit it in the body, so I just didn't see that part.
Speaker 1:And he wanted it taxidermed. Yeah, he shot it in the head, that close. He sent it later and he brought it to you for a taxiderm. Yeah, do you look at him, do you realize where you shot it?
Speaker 2:The problem is a lot of the time you get an animal, it's frozen in a bag. So you don't see it even until you pull it out and it's like surprise.
Speaker 1:And can you do it? I mounted it. It's just real pain.
Speaker 2:It came out and you wouldn't know it really to look at it. But, yeah, it was not easy. It's stretching hides and kind of giving here and taking there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so you can kind of puzzle, piece it together, sort of thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So guys do that a lot though.
Speaker 2:Often Moose. Moose are terrible People come unglued when they see a moose and they'll fill it full of holes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they want you to patch them all.
Speaker 4:I've heard that, yeah, people just basically make them so they won't hold water.
Speaker 1:It looks like a cheese grater now. We're looking for it to hold water by the time you're done.
Speaker 2:Right, right. Yeah, I've had to replace ears and stuff on moose because they walk up to it and they don't. Well, you don't think of it, you just you're all full of adrenaline and you want it dead. We want it done so that you can.
Speaker 1:Especially something that size Right.
Speaker 4:Especially something in the province of New Brunswick where you might get a tag or two in a lifetime.
Speaker 3:Right, Exactly.
Speaker 4:It's not like your deer. You know where you've done this the last five years. You're just jumping.
Speaker 2:I'd imagine with excitement. I've never done it, but I would imagine oh, it's, it's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I shot hers one on the hunt with my uncle. Now, yeah, I just kept shooting. So I was told they're so big, just keep shooting till they're down right, yeah, so yeah we did. And then, uh, it is taxidermed and there is a shot behind the ear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and a lot, of, a lot of people. When they finish an antelope, they'll put the gun up to the head or just hold it back a little bit.
Speaker 1:And then they bring it to you Right.
Speaker 2:They shoot them between the eyes. Sometimes they shoot them a little high, and then the antlers split in the center. So you have to fasten them back together. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, you can do it. You don't feel like yeah, what are you thinking?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, you think that, but yeah, you don't want to say it. Yeah, they get another one. You want to?
Speaker 1:talk to you for a minute there yeah, yeah what the hell so have you?
Speaker 4:have you had a lot of experiences with customers that you honestly can't mount, that like there's just no way. Like, for example, like you were saying there, like you have a lot, mount that Like there's just no way. Like, for example, like you were saying there, like you have a lot of that, or no, is it all pretty much solvable?
Speaker 2:I don't think I've ever told anybody no, okay, but sometimes you have to use.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's your problem, yeah, yeah, probably.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you have to use a lot of another hide in order to to make it work, right, yeah. People. Moose are terrible People. All they have to do is roll a moose over and lay some limbs underneath of it and fasten the limbs to the moose, so when they drag it out it's not dragging on the hide.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, they're a heavy animal. There's also a big bear if you drag it out on the hide, so for the taxidermist that's, you get it and it's yeah yeah scraped all to hell kind of thing right?
Speaker 4:I never thought of that I never thought of it that way either, but every time you hear about moose hunting in the brunswick oh the time we had getting it out. We had two bikes hooked together yeah exactly yeah, I never thought of it from that perspective, but yeah, yeah, the hair comes right out of them.
Speaker 2:They just they're raw hide.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I've had that several times. Like patches are just, you just have to replace the hide or sew a huge patch in, there's going to be a lot of hunters listening to this and be like boy.
Speaker 1:I feel bad for my taxidermist.
Speaker 4:It doesn't seem to telling them Like thanks. I didn't realize what I laid upon you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, huh yeah. I'm doing a bear rug right now. I had to sew a patch in that's over a foot long.
Speaker 3:Oh.
Speaker 2:The fellow's. By himself he didn't have any way to lift the thing. It probably weighed 300 pounds. They're like a bowl of jelly. Yes, so he hooked a rope to it and drug it out and he told me when he dropped it off I met the guy up north.
Speaker 1:A little bit of hair missing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he said I don't know if you can do it. But he said, if you can, I really want it done. So yeah, just sew a big patch in it. Bears are easier to patch than a deer or a moose.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's all black for the most part.
Speaker 1:Yeah, until color phase bear in New Brunswick.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 1:Everything's going to have a skunk strip going up.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it'll look like a whole scene. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that's neat. Yeah, there's a lot of things that you don't think about as a hunter. We just, you know, here you go and do your thing and I'll pick it up when it's ready, but you're there's a Even deer, like most people look at a deer and they think they all look the same other than the antlers. Well, except for Dalton, because he was going on earlier about the colours and all that yeah, yeah, but they all kind of look the same.
Speaker 2:The hair on some deer are a lot different, like just the texture and the colour.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, I had one come in this winter that I had to do and I had to sew a big patch on it On the back, on the very back on the top it was, and it was a different color, a hide, like a different texture, everything. So he had left.
Speaker 1:Tell him to hang it up real high in the house. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But he had, he had, he had left a lot of extra hide on the sides and but just not in the in the top oh. So I just cut a piece off the side and it sewed in. Actually it was two pieces I had to sew in.
Speaker 4:So do you know what makes that like? What makes the colors different?
Speaker 1:I honestly don't Area. Do you find area maybe?
Speaker 2:It could be yeah, it could be A lot of animals that you take in the same area. The height will be identical almost.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what they're eating and stuff. Yeah, maybe all the climate too. Well, the climate that I was thinking like soil, minerals and stuff.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because, like the cane and bog to my house as we spoke on morgan's podcast here before. Very different right, yeah completely different environment. They're only only 45 yeah, 30 minutes apart probably right, but completely different world. So we kind of wonder if maybe that's I don't, I don't know either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but boy, that's getting technical, though the minerals and stuff well, yeah but I mean yeah, no, it makes sense yeah yeah, yeah you have a piebald deer with the white patches on it I haven't no no I haven't.
Speaker 2:No, I made it. When I was into archery targets, making targets, I made one for a friend that he wanted his deer white because he had seen one. He took a picture of it and he wanted to paint it the same way, really, yeah.
Speaker 4:So do you ever do like a double throat patch on a? Like a double throat patch, deer? You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:No, I haven't no.
Speaker 4:I've heard of them in some places.
Speaker 2:I was rope patch deer. You know what I mean. No, I haven't. No, I've heard of them in some places. I was just curious if you've ever.
Speaker 4:What are you talking about? The two?
Speaker 1:white. Yeah, two white, two of them. Yeah, I don't think I ever have no, yeah, okay, no kind of sounds like you're making stuff up. No, no, are you sure it's not like a piebald deer with the white?
Speaker 2:on positive yes because it's got extra white, so b I saw a huge pine pie piebald deer about three weeks ago.
Speaker 1:Really, I've seen that we have an area around here that there's like a small family of them. Yeah, kind of thing, but you haven't done one.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Because it'd be a little harder. If you're like, well, I'll borrow a patch from this other white deer that I have over here, yeah.
Speaker 4:Kind of thing yeah, over here kind of thing, yeah, might be a little more difficult to do, that's right, yeah, and does, I guess, another kind of dumb question blood on a hide you can wash, you can? Wash that out every time, or does that ever cause you problems, or?
Speaker 2:I have more, more problem with birds with blood on them when you taxiderm birds. Yeah, yeah, I yeah, I have a difficult time getting them cleaned up, because I don't want to. It's just it's a lot easier with they're a lot harder with a bird.
Speaker 1:With deer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to put them in a washing machine.
Speaker 1:It's not too bad, like if someone brings you a deer just drenched in it. It's not really a big deal, not a problem.
Speaker 2:I soak them when I tan them. I soak them for a week.
Speaker 1:Yes, I do actually Okay, well, it wasn't even a good guess, because you just see the commercial everywhere and it seems great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Dawn works, huh yeah, it doesn't change the pH level in the hide as badly as a lot of soaps. Okay, good to know, yeah.
Speaker 1:But the feathers, blood on the feathers that is more difficult to wash out that the feathers that that is more difficult to wash out, that's trouble.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's harder to harder to get them cleaned out. Tell them they're better off catching it wringing its neck so there's no blood. Yeah, that's right. So what? What's changed in taxidermy was another question I had like from when you started the nails look better yeah technically, there's a lot of things that have changed since I started.
Speaker 2:Um, the mounts are much better for the most part, depending on where you buy them, but, um, the eye quality is a lot better. Um, the glues and the epoxies that we use now are much better. When I started, you used to have to sew the.
Speaker 2:You turn the hide inside out and sew the lips together and then you tuck them in to a crevice that you routered out around the the mouth of the deer and stuff it in and glue it and almost always after about 12 years you would see the stitching start to appear. So, luckily, I only ever did one like that. Yeah, that was my own, so now I have good, you can stitch lips shut. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I should send my mother-in-law over to you.
Speaker 2:I can't say anything. I'll get in trouble.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I probably already am. That's interesting.
Speaker 2:So it's little things like that yeah, now I use, just use good glues and epoxies. I don't have to do anything, you don't have to do as much stitching.
Speaker 1:The glues that they have now can kind of make up for right stitching, because it's that much, it holds that much better. Yeah, that's interesting other than that.
Speaker 4:Is there any like technologies that have come along, or six since you did, or anything? There's a really just pretty much the same.
Speaker 2:It's, it's, it's a. The tanning process has changed, or it has, for me anyway quicker. It's. It's quicker and easier, and then you don't use anything. It's a volatile, so uh.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's not dangerous.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I got it you were, you were dealing with battery acids and and yeah it was scary stuff Really. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, I'm glad that's uh, that's come around then, yeah, it's a lot more taxidermists, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, actually, one lady that I used to kind of check in on her once in a while if I wasn't sure about something or wanted to upgrade a little bit. She's from down the state somewhere, I don't even remember her name now, but she had been doing it for years at that time and she said that her dog actually drank some of the tanning solution that she was using and she had no problem with them.
Speaker 1:So really, I thought you were going to say she had a new dog later. No, no really.
Speaker 3:It must be a lot better than battery.
Speaker 2:A lot better, safer, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:The battery acid would be a different story Wow. So, it's a lot better.
Speaker 2:You wouldn, the battery acid would be a different story. Wow, so it's a lot better you wouldn't recommend drinking it though. I wouldn't, no, I don't try not to, but it can happen and you'll probably be going works for Fido, so it could work for you.
Speaker 1:Shouldn't do it? Wow, that's neat, todd. We've unpacked a lot here. It was very interesting. I learned a lot and hopefully some people listened and thought like maybe I won't drag my moose through the rock pit and stuff and just kind of help out their fellow taxidermist sort of thing.
Speaker 4:So, while we're helping out our fellow taxidermist, should you mention your business, maybe, and give a little shout out for that. Yes, I was getting to that. Okay, okay, perfect.
Speaker 2:So it's Turner's Taxidermy. I don't have a website. I do have a page on Facebook, so a lot of people see it. I don't. I hope to get back to up updating it. I, when I first started it last year, I updated it quite often and then got busy and just didn't and haven't really since.
Speaker 1:So you're located central New Brunswick.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true. Yeah yeah, central to Southeastern, I guess.
Speaker 1:Turn this taxidermy on Facebook.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's where people can find you and get their stuff done and get it sent back to the states in a not so timely manner.
Speaker 2:Yes, working on that Right, that's right.
Speaker 1:Good Well, todd. Thanks Paul for coming on. Thank.