Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Stories! As hunters and outdoors people that seems to be a common thing we all have lots of. Join your amateur guide and host on this channel Ken as he gets tales from guys and gals. Chasing that trophy buck for years to an entertaining morning on the duck pond, comedian ones, to interesting that's what you are going to hear. Also along with some general hunting discussions from time to time but making sure to leave political talks out of it. Don't take this too serious as we sure don't! If you enjoy this at all or find it fun to listen to, we really appreciate if you would subscribe and leave a review. Thanks for. checking us out! We are also on fb as Hunts on outfitting, and instagram. We are on YouTube as Hunts on outfitting podcast.
Hunts On Outfitting Podcast
Ep.25 Discussion on Ammo Limits, The Ethics Of Selling Sheds, And Wearing Hunters Orange
Ever wondered if Hunter's Orange is really a game-changer for safety or just an outdated rule? Join us as we debate this hot topic with our first-time guest Nick and our returning buddy Lane. We kick off by discussing the importance of wearing high-visibility gear during hunting seasons across North America. Lane and Nick share their insights, weighing the pros and cons of keeping the Hunter's Orange on while in the stand, even though deer are colorblind. Tune in to hear our take and share your opinion on whether this rule is a must-follow or a relic of the past.
Safety is paramount in hunting, but does high-visibility gear enhance or inhibit your hunt? We get practical by diving into the use of ground blinds, discussing the legal requirements, and emphasizing the ethical necessity of identifying your target before shooting. We compare safety practices from different states, including Maine's moose hunting regulations, and touch on the varying requirements for different types of hunting, such as waterfowl. This conversation is an eye-opener for both seasoned hunters and newcomers, providing valuable insights into maintaining high safety standards while enjoying the hunt.
Explore the world of hunting limits, the ethical implications of ammunition capacity in waterfowl hunting, and the fascinating realm of shed hunting with us. Is limiting ammunition beneficial or a hindrance? We debate the impact, comparing regulations between Canada and the US. Then, we delve into the cycle of whitetail deer antlers, shedding light on their growth and practical uses. Our discussion is both informative and thought-provoking, reminding us of the importance of ethical hunting practices. Don’t miss out; share your thoughts and experiences with us!
Check us out on Facebook and instagram Hunts On Outfitting, and also our YouTube page Hunts On Outfitting Podcast. Tell your hunting buddies about the podcast if you like it, Thanks!
this is sunset opening podcast. I'm your host and rookie guide, ken marr. I love everything hunting the outdoors and all things associated with it, from stories to how-tos. You'll find it here. Welcome to the podcast, all righty. Welcome to hunts on outfitting podcast, the only podcast brought to you by al's antler chairs. Just be aware how you sit your derriere, because you know the antlers. They have times and they still oh no, never mind, just got this. They have changed the position of the antlers on the seating part after a few unwanted and unexpected accidental prostate exams, so I guess that problem's been taken care of. Thanks, al.
Speaker 1:Opinions we all have them Sometimes, though we don't always need to state them. Well, on today's show we took that advice and threw it out the window. We go over and state our uneducated and unexpert opinion on three subjects that, across North America, may be relevant to you, also in your area. If you like the podcast at all, all we ask is that you share us out and subscribe and if you got the time, leave us a review. That's it. That's all. Now let's get to it. Boys, I'm all jacked up to have you guys here. Nick, first time on the podcast. Great way to pop your cherry, how would I describe you? Well, what would I say? A wild man, woodsman, father of four, who enjoys what would be your biggest pastime Nick Horse pulling.
Speaker 2:Horse pulling lately, are they?
Speaker 1:hard to pull Yep, or did they do the pulling?
Speaker 1:They do the pulling and hunting coincidentally, while you're on the podcast, and for those of you who've listened to this podcast before, we have returning guest Lane Lane had the big bear story and another bear story and some different stuff that he's been on here for. So he's the city worker that watches holes more than he watches what he's supposed to be doing. So, boys, our last controversial hunting topics. I said that was a debate, but this doesn't have to be a debate, it's just a discussion. It went quite well. I got some good feedback from it.
Speaker 1:Viewer discretion advised. We are not experts in any way, shape or form, but we are some opinionated bastards, so we're going to go with that. We're going to go over each topic. We've got a small, very small handful of them tonight and if you agree, disagree, you know, shoot us a message either on Facebook Hunts on Outfitting or on Instagram Hunts on Outfitting as well, and maybe you guys have a topic that you'd like us to go over, or call in yourselves. You know, love to hear it. So, boys, the first topic that we're going to do is the wearing of Hunter's Orange. Now, whatever state and or province you're in, chances are during hunting season, you need to wear Hunter's Orange Now, for here the rule is two pieces of visible Hunter's Orange, so you know a vest and or a hat. That's mainly what everyone goes with. You do not have to wear it for migratory bird hunting. That's basically the big one. You do have to wear it for your deer, your bear, not spring bear.
Speaker 3:It's from September 1st until December 31st.
Speaker 1:Right. So that covers your moose and your deer, your small game stuff, allst Right. So that covers your moose and your deer, your small game stuff, all that. So, boys, we're talking today. Do you think that's a good rule? Should you have to wear Hunter's Orange? Is it safe or are we long? Gone the days of people just shooting carelessly into the woods when they hear a sound. So you shouldn't have to wear it.
Speaker 3:Oh, that happens more when people think of this. It should be worn.
Speaker 1:It should be worn. I'm half and half Lane. Give us your opinion on that.
Speaker 3:I think it should be, because here in New Brunswick, during bow season for deer, you can legally remove your orange once you're in your stand, but walking in and out you have to have your vest and your cap on. I think it should be all year.
Speaker 1:All year what?
Speaker 3:All season, sorry, not year. During the fall seasons you should have to wear your blaze orange walking to your stand and walking out.
Speaker 1:But you think you should be able to take it off when you're in your stand. Yes, why? Why do you feel the need to take it off?
Speaker 3:it doesn't work, but I feel more discreet but deer can't see it, deer color no so it doesn't feel more odds, any. No, it doesn't, I just feel more hidden I'm not against you, I'm just playing devil's advocate.
Speaker 1:that's really stupid recently. No, um, but I mean, the deer can't see it, nope, so you just feel better hidden Yep. Is it because you don't want other hunters walking by to see you up there in the tree and think if he's up there there's probably deer around there? Is that it?
Speaker 3:No, I normally hunt where most people don't want to go. Okay, because? I don't want to be in competition with people where most people don't want to go. Okay.
Speaker 1:Because I don't want to be in competition with people. Right Lane or Nick, do you feel the same way? You don't want to be in competition with people? No, about the Hunter's Orange. Once you get to your stand, take it off.
Speaker 2:I agree to wear it in.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Like to have to wear it in and then I.
Speaker 1:Why take it off? Does it restrict off? I agree.
Speaker 2:Once you get in there, you should be able to take it off.
Speaker 1:Why Do you find it restricts you? You're wearing it way too tight. I'll tell you what the deer can't see it. You guys know that right. The deer are colorblind.
Speaker 2:So it shouldn't affect it.
Speaker 1:But you guys think that all the other stuff you should have to wear it. I do.
Speaker 3:But what's the difference for me being? Because I only hunt out of hang on tree stands, I don't have any boxes.
Speaker 1:You're just hanging on eh.
Speaker 3:So what's the difference for me, going in a hang on tree stand and taking a vest off? Or say Nick's, in a completely boxed in tree stand, complete, covered on all four sides, wearing a vest. You can't see the vest in the stand.
Speaker 1:No, the deer can't either, though.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:The deer can't either.
Speaker 3:Nope, they can't.
Speaker 1:So you guys think it restricts?
Speaker 3:I just think. I'm you feel better about yourself that you're hidden, I feel more hidden. It's the same with people that wear face masks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that works the same with people that wear face masks. Yeah, I mean, that works for waterfowl and for predators. I think face masks work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but if you feel more hidden.
Speaker 1:You feel more confident.
Speaker 3:Absolutely yeah, whether or not.
Speaker 1:The science behind it actually backs it. That it works or not is a completely different discussion.
Speaker 3:And I don't, and a tree.
Speaker 1:What about for small game?
Speaker 3:yes, absolutely, if you're on the ground. Well, yeah, orange, orange on, definitely on the ground because I've seen it firsthand out, partridge hunting, walking on an old logging road right at last light, and I seen hunter's orange and it just pops at last light. Yeah, if they weren't, you couldn't see any part of their other body except their orange, if they weren't wearing orange.
Speaker 1:I think it's a good thing to wear. It's too bad that we are not at the point where you know if you hear a sound, you don't just shoot blindly into there, you know be sure of your target, but unfortunately, there are some people that you know kind of still go by that way, and it's unfortunate.
Speaker 3:I think it should be left up to the hunter's discretion. If you want to wear it in the stand, absolutely, but if you want to take it off because there is people that would want to take it off just to hide from other people- Right.
Speaker 1:If you're hunting along the edge of the field or something.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, but like you said, lane, I was sitting a couple years ago and this guy walked in and I didn't know what it was until he had his orange on right he had his orange on I. If he didn't have his orange on, I wouldn't know really what it was I mean it was coming dark like you, weren't you?
Speaker 1:I was getting ready to get down anyway, but were you looking at him through the scope? Nope okay good, because you know you're not supposed to. I've done it before you've looked at people through the scope, sorry, no, change topic. Don't be hunted.
Speaker 3:I've hunted off a ground blind and, yeah, a decently heavily hunted area on public land, so I had just as much right as anyone else I put a winter orange hat on the top of my blind because hoping that no one shot towards you because they're hitting it. I'm on the ground. Yeah, there's nothing.
Speaker 2:There's nothing stopping them right just to kind of I suppose with your time of day, or yeah, yeah, you don't know if there's some people.
Speaker 3:There's someone walking in the woods and there was happened to be a deer that's circling in behind me.
Speaker 1:You put that out so people knew don't shoot towards here. You're hoping they don't.
Speaker 3:I'm hoping it would help. I mean, orange sticks out pretty good at last light. I mean I don't know Whether it would have done anything or not, I don't know, but it kind of gave me a little bit better peace of mind, yeah.
Speaker 1:You feel safer.
Speaker 3:Because when I was in the ground, blind why?
Speaker 1:don't you feel safer if you're wearing it, though, in the blind?
Speaker 2:But you can't see it, you can't see in them blinds.
Speaker 1:You're hidden that well.
Speaker 3:If I'm in a ground blind, it's got windows all the way around it, but I only open the one facing my shooting lane so there could be a deer or a person right behind my blind. I have no idea what it is Right, because I find I've heard a lot of guys. If they have all their windows down on their ground blind, they see through it and that's when they catch you with the movement. But if they can't see through, it's just a dark hole and they can't see in it.
Speaker 2:Right. Well, a lot of them, blinds too, got the screens, and they're camouflaged too. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, we're getting to ethics here. If you're a hunter listening to this and you shoot towards noise, be damn sure of your target.
Speaker 3:Don't just shoot towards noise. You should be 100% confident and confirm what you're aiming at.
Speaker 1:Not even shooting Aiming. Yeah, because I know a lot of guys. I've seen what's behind. I've seen it firsthand with I.
Speaker 3:I don't leave home to go in the woods without binoculars and I've seen guys looking at me through the rifle scope because that's all I have for optics oh yeah and I'm like, really like yeah, no, that's uh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know they teach that in hunter's education about not doing that. But yeah, I knew I. I know a lot of people do that and definitely uh should try to stay away from that practice so we have you know, by law, we have to wear the vest and the hat.
Speaker 2:I think the vest is enough you don't think, think the hat.
Speaker 3:Because in.
Speaker 2:Maine no.
Speaker 3:But some people's heads.
Speaker 1:You know, you got those tall guys right.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm not small, I mean I wear a pretty big vest and it's a fairly bright color.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's orange.
Speaker 2:Why do we got to wear a hat and a vest?
Speaker 1:If you're walking through something thick, and they'll see that hat, they'll see that head bobbing along. But do you think it inhibits your hunt though? Because it doesn't.
Speaker 3:No, it doesn't no.
Speaker 2:I know some guys think it does.
Speaker 1:You think?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely, you feel we're concealed yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:What were you saying about Maine Lane?
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, what were you saying about Maine Lane In the Maine for moose hunting they don't have to wear a vest, you only have to wear a hat, and that's if you are the permit holder. So I will say, if you had your license and I was with you, Is this true, Lane? Yeah, I don't have to wear camouflage. Sorry, I don't have to wear orange, but you have to wear an orange hat, you don't have to that's different.
Speaker 1:I'm for the hat and the vest. Yeah, it just I don't mind wearing it no if I was able to in a tree stand, I'd take it off, but I'm not you just put more things on your side to help you look, help you be noticeable and and you know, hopefully not get shot, sort of thing but yeah, which is you know?
Speaker 3:I think we should just leave it up to the my opinion hunter's discretion, if you want to take it off, because there's people that would benefit. Who?
Speaker 1:people in high traffic areas benefit for wearing it or not for wearing? It for not wearing it maybe you're saying like people wise if there's a lot of people around no one would notice them and they wouldn't think to go hunt there, you mean.
Speaker 3:I've driven down fields during the season before and seen someone sitting in a tree 400 or 500 yards away. They stick out like sore thumb, but some people have it.
Speaker 1:So you know to stay away from there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but some people wouldn't. They'd be like oh. Must be deer there. Because he's sitting there, I'm going to go or I'll wait for him not to be in there and I'll go sit in a stand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a shitty idea that's another debate too. That's another debate.
Speaker 2:yeah, Because if you drive into a field and you're like, okay, that guy's got his orange on Me, I would respect that and leave. But if that guy doesn't have orange on, then how do you know he's there?
Speaker 1:So then you go tromping in there, Well you drive in and you ruin his hunt. Yeah, so the orange would benefit the guy's hunt. Yeah, if he had an ethical guy looking in there. Yeah, it sounds like it's a pretty clean cut thing to me to wear it. Yeah, all right. So this is why it's a pretty clean cut thing to me To wear it, alright. So this is why it's not a debate. This is a discussion.
Speaker 2:Because we can all agree on it.
Speaker 1:It's a debate, I get a little rougher and I have to bring up my taser.
Speaker 2:Please don't.
Speaker 1:No, that's good boys.
Speaker 2:So we have to wear it. You say spring bear, you don't have to wear it.
Speaker 3:Not even to the stand.
Speaker 1:Not as many people in the woods, I'm guessing is why.
Speaker 3:There's very few people that are out. There's very few people that I know that actually bear hunt.
Speaker 1:And there's people up in a stand the chances of getting shot. I'm guessing they're thinking of this up in the stand, or slimmer you'd think yeah you would think Hopefully, obviously you don't have to wear during waterfowl and you know, because that does make a difference, they can't see that oh, they can't okay, that was my next question. Yes, waterfowl, waterfowl oh yeah, they can see that you'd really stick out. Yeah, yeah, they're not like deer and stuff yeah, any little color we'll throw, they'll notice yeah what about moose hunting?
Speaker 2:you, you have to wear it. Yeah, I mean, you gotta wear it.
Speaker 1:They can't see it, they're colorblind, so technically it wouldn't inhibit your hunt.
Speaker 2:I know you gotta wear it, but I definitely say, wear it for moose hunting, because A lot of moose hunting is done on the ground. Yeah, there's a lot of people.
Speaker 3:But it, it all depends playing the devil's advocate here. You shouldn't have to, because how you should know what you're shooting at?
Speaker 2:yes, but if yeah it's a pretty big target.
Speaker 1:I think that's the only reason, you know that's the only reason why you're wearing hunter's orange is because, though, some people are not sure what they're shooting at. I know if everybody was sure of their target and all that, yeah, you wouldn't have to wear it. Yeah, because that's what it's for.
Speaker 2:You don't know you're shooting at a moose. You shouldn't be shooting.
Speaker 3:You shouldn't be hunting at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's a pretty big target.
Speaker 1:You know your glasses get fogged up and you know a little trigger happy and I mean, stuff happens. Yep, stuff happens. We are in agreeance on. You should have to wear Hunter's Orange.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Good, just you have to.
Speaker 3:Done it all my life. It's no different.
Speaker 1:We're not changing the laws, boys.
Speaker 3:It's no different now. I grew up ever since.
Speaker 2:I grew up hunting.
Speaker 1:I had to wear Hunter's.
Speaker 3:Orange, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you have a twin brother and you guys both had guns.
Speaker 2:That's like I don't want one of them shot, so they're going to have to both know where the other one is. Sometimes they don't belong at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes the other one, knowing where the other one is, could, you know, inhibit that person's hunt? Okay, good, good. So the next topic is we are talking about the migratory birds. So, nick, this is newer to you because you're not a waterfowl hunter. So get the hell out of here. No, no, it's good, everyone's welcome. So this one is all. Guns must be plugged to hold three shells total one in the chamber and two in the magazine. Okay, so that's the rule Now if I get out my handy dandy stuff. So it's interesting.
Speaker 1:The Migratory Game Bird Management in the United States is a cooperative effort of state and federal governments. The US and Canada are divided into four administrative flyways the Atlantic, the Mississippi, central and Pacific. Each flyway has a flyway council consisting of representatives from the state and provincial wildlife management agencies who work together and with the US Fish and Wildlife Service and the Canadian Wildlife Service to manage migratory birds in their flyway. So that's how it's kind of broken up. Most migratory birds found in Canada are protected under the Migratory Birds Convention Act, which fulfills the terms of the Migratory Birds Convention of 1916 between Canada and the US, which was updated in 1994 and 2005. So this is the same across the board because the birds migrate. So canada, us, are all in on this, and I've also been told, the united kingdom.
Speaker 1:So, from what I understand, the three, three shot rule was to make, uh, more of a fighting chance for the birds, make it more ethical sort of thing. Do you guys think though I'm pretty sure that's why I was put in? Um, I couldn't really find the exact reason, but do you guys think, though, that's that's good? Nick, this is new to you. Do you think three shots is good? Or should you be like, I mean, some shotguns, your average shotgun, what can hold, say, six, five, five, six, standard, and then you put a plug in it to hold three? If you're checked with it and you do not have that plug in and you're hunting migratory birds, you're going to get Canada or the US, because it's federal Right Now. I mean, I feel, why not hold six? Your limit's your limit, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, once you hit that limit, you're done.
Speaker 1:Yep, it doesn't matter if you can hold six or 30. And the geese and the duck populations, I think everywhere is quite stable Yep. And like I said though, regardless, I mean your, I mean your limits, your limit you hit it, you're out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it doesn't matter if you shoot a limit in your first flock with five shells or you have to do multiple flocks because you only fit three. A limit's a limit. It'd be different if there wasn't a limit. But as far as a it doesn't, you're shooting the same amount of shells.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if there was a now some people would say, well, you've got those extra shells, you're maybe taking some further shots and all that, the ducks and geese is. That is ethical. And I mean, I know, guys, you're going to take that shot regardless if you've got further shots and all that. If anything, it could help you.
Speaker 3:If anyone's into it, they know they're not going to take an unethical shot.
Speaker 1:Chances are you're only going to be able to squeeze out three shots.
Speaker 3:As I say very rarely, are you especially semi? You'd have to pull the trigger pretty fast, but especially with a pump you would have.
Speaker 1:They're out of range by the time you get past that third shot that you would struggle to get five shots off ethically yes. So then we kind of go into the question of is it ethical to try to squeeze off that fourth or fifth shot? Or those fourth and fifth shots could help bring down a bird that you've hit with the second shot or the third, and you're just putting a bit more lead into it. Steel, sorry, steel, steel, just it's a figure to speech.
Speaker 3:See me saying lead steel, um, to bring it the third, and you're just putting a bit more lead into it, steel, sorry Steel, you steal.
Speaker 1:It's a figure to speech. See me saying lead Steel to bring it down. Yeah, nick, you're a new guy coming into this. Let's get your take on it. Come on, nick, cough it up, let us have it.
Speaker 2:I don't know really.
Speaker 1:All right, nick, I agree with you. No, really All right.
Speaker 2:Nick, I agree with you If you're in that second or third shot and that bird's coming down and you need that extra shot.
Speaker 1:I mean, we've all seen it You've been in waterfowl hunting, you haven't been in waterfowl hunting, but there's no rules on you can't reload. Yeah, but you'd have to be one hell of a reloader, yeah not saying in the air, but saying the thing.
Speaker 3:Like you fire all three shots and you got to. Everyone's had a goose they take, they can take some firepower. Yeah, and they're they're winged, but they're still fine when you load a couple more into it and then you shoot it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm going to give you a scenario. Okay, close your eyes and just picture this. If you're listening to this and you're driving, please don't, I'm not liable. So you got a nice flock of geese coming in, say, all right, nice flock of geese coming in, they're cupping, just perfect Landing. It's great, bang, bang, two go down, bang, you hit one. That's your three shots. Two dead. One's hit. Okay, that's it. That's all you got for shots. It's hit. I didn't say it was going down, I said it's hit. That thing's still going away. Now, if you can have more than one shot in there and you got five in there, bang, bang, two are down, bang, one's hit. You got a couple more shots. Bang, you're actually bringing him down. He's not flying off wounded.
Speaker 2:And he's not suffering.
Speaker 1:Right, that's the devil's advocate for going against this.
Speaker 3:But I'm sure there's guys that are a lot more into it. Would have some more points on either end too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not obsessed with it and viewer discretion advised. We are not experts on any of these subjects.
Speaker 3:Again, so just keep that in mind when you're listening to this. I think there's good points to both sides of it.
Speaker 1:Now I think it's great that Canada and the US are both part of this act, considering the ducks and geese do go back and forth between both countries.
Speaker 2:Without a passport.
Speaker 1:I might add yeah, lucky the old border jumpers. Yeah, so it's good that we're on the same page.
Speaker 3:But also, what's the difference between all that and guys at West hunting snow geese? They got extended mags on them and they're jamming 10 into them.
Speaker 1:You know that for sure, Lane Snow geese somewhere.
Speaker 3:You can pretty well shoot as many as you want.
Speaker 1:But there's no limit on snow geese too. No, they'd be under the Migratory Birds Act.
Speaker 3:I've seen videos of guys running their tubes, their shell tubes, as long as their barrel is.
Speaker 1:What I don't know, lane, but they also can shoot like you see the pictures.
Speaker 3:They write the number out with all the birds and it's like a one-morning hunt and they're shooting 150 birds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know, though They'd be under the Federal Migratory Birds Act, which would be the three shots. So I don't know. I think they could do away with it. Really, I think it'd be just as ethical I mean, ethics can be— but they put a limit on it.
Speaker 2:Okay, there's three.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how far do you go? Right, you still have a limit on birds.
Speaker 3:But a lot of it comes in as consideration on how far is what shell you're using, if you're using two and three quarter or using three and a half, or what choke tubes you're using. Yeah, Right.
Speaker 1:I mean, where ethics come into, it would be when people are shooting. You can see those extra shots. People are taking shots a bit further than they need to, but I mean, guys are doing that with three shots anyways and that extra shot could help you from a wounded bird.
Speaker 1:On the third shot to a downed bird on the fourth, that kind of thing, nick. Just put yourself in a waterfowl mindset. If you're doing it, I'm trying to. All right, do it here, I'm going to get you get a bucket of water and get you wet, that'll put you in a waterfowl mindset, you know. So that's my, that's my humble opinion. I'm not into waterfowl hunting. So Lane, I've done it.
Speaker 3:I've done it, but I haven't done it in a couple years. I've never done it.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I might have to try it.
Speaker 1:You should. It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 3:If you are comfortable with putting about $10,000 on a table and burning it and not crying you should get into Waterfowl.
Speaker 1:No, it does not cost that much.
Speaker 3:Well, you see, boys, if you started from scratch, you would be quite a few grand.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, you guys know me quite well. I got four kids, probably not going to put $10,000 on the table.
Speaker 1:Just think about all the goose burger you could get, though Especially around here.
Speaker 3:If you don't have connections, you're not getting permission on land.
Speaker 2:You have to know somebody that owns land.
Speaker 3:So if I was by myself, if I was to start, I couldn't Because all the land scrap bought up around here and no one's getting permission.
Speaker 1:You've got to know a farmer. Yep, you've got to know a farmer.
Speaker 3:Then you've got to go buy your layout blinds and you've got to go buy a couple cases of shells because you go through a pile of them. You've got to buy a gun because it has to be. You can't use a break barrel.
Speaker 1:Well, I can if it's a double barrel, yes, not single shot. Then you need your decoys, you need your cauls.
Speaker 3:Anyways, you're not looking at 10 grand but it's a couple bucks to get into. It was a figure of speech.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean, that's where I'm on the three shot thing.
Speaker 2:So I don't think I'll be getting into it then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can get into it, you'll be all right.
Speaker 2:I mean, if I had your money, Ken, I would no, you wouldn't.
Speaker 1:You wouldn't want my money. All kinds of calls from the bank, All right. So I mean, on the three shot thing, Nick, you're kind of impassive on this. I think you should be able. I don't think it'd affect the hunt. Your limit's your limit.
Speaker 3:Once you hit it, you're done anyways.
Speaker 1:You know All right. So the next thing we're going into, boys, is shed hunting. A lot of people do it. I think it's great, great way to get out into the outdoors. Is it ethical to be selling them? I mean, you cannot sell anything really from big game animals. You can sell sheds. Sheds are something that fall off of them, right? So you're not taking anything from the big game animal, they're already giving it away technically. But when you bring money into stuff, do you ever get into more unethical situations? I mean, some sheds and I was looking up before we started the podcast in areas are selling for $18 a pound. These guys that make very good side hustles and some people that make very well paying occupation, full time for shed hunting. What do you guys think on it?
Speaker 3:Well, you can't. You can't sell sheds in the bread truck, so get that. Put that in mind too right now. But I don't see a problem with it.
Speaker 1:Do you guys know what sheds are used for?
Speaker 2:Collectors' items, people, decorations yeah, such as I've seen I won't look on my walls Lamps, candle holders.
Speaker 1:Those are quite nice yeah.
Speaker 3:People just use them shed as sheds themselves as decoration.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But a lot of them now are using them. They're cutting them up and using them for dog treats, for dog treats or dog chews.
Speaker 1:Also and I'm not being racist or anything it says what I read. It said the Asians. The Asians are having them consumed as powdered their antler powder for sexual performance. The Asians are having them consumed as powdered their antler powder for sexual performance. So think about that, boys. Next time you're out and see a little buck shed, you grind that up and go home and give the old lady the best night of her life, apparently, according to the Asians. And that is honest to goodness what it says.
Speaker 2:I read online. We'll let you try that again.
Speaker 1:I'm not grinding up any antlers, um, so I'm gonna tell you so also, I read in seven western states have passed laws that close shed hunting in certain wildlife areas to try to decrease the stress on deer and elk that they experience in their winter ranges.
Speaker 3:Now you'd have to look into it and do some more research. But is that closed to everybody or strictly shed hunting?
Speaker 1:I'd have to do some more research, but I think it specifically says shed hunting and I'm also going to tell you.
Speaker 3:Because who's saying you couldn't go in for a hike and find some sheds and stockpile?
Speaker 1:them up? No, you're shed hunting. No, yeah, but are they closed down? No, you can't take sheds out of there.
Speaker 3:No, you're not taking them out. Can you pile them up? Because who's saying are you allowed to go hiking in there? Yeah, because you could just be hiking. And yeah, exactly, you're not taking it though, because then you're shed hunting. Yes, but how are? What's the difference from me shed hunting and carrying antlers out and disturbing the wildlife compared?
Speaker 1:to me walking in there just for what you're saying. But if I was a ranger and I saw you trotting out there, with the antler saying that, oh, it's just on a hike and I found this yes, I'm not saying that I'll be telling you, telling you, not saying to carry them out, but what's the difference between me hiking in there? And a hiker, disturbing everybody. I believe it goes to everybody.
Speaker 3:I'd have to look into more information on that $18 a pound.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, there's a lot of people going in there and I've guessed people that have been caught and fined said that the risk was worth the reward. Just again, they're ahead ward just to get in there ahead of everybody else. So I mean, that's where you you get into the ethics of it. You've put a price tag on it and then you've got people in there, possibly, probably not even hunters, really some of them that probably just hikers well covering us.
Speaker 1:hikers, you know that are in there and they are disturbing the wildlife at a crucial time in the winter when they really need to be not disturbed In areas we have extreme cold and very deep snow. Yep Right. For the most part a lot of shed hunters. Wait until the snow's gone, some. But if it's worth money and you're making a living some guys are making a living at it you're going to be going there before other people do.
Speaker 3:They got to hike back in the mountains 5 to 10 miles. They're not going to do that in 3 feet of snow. You wouldn't, cover any ground. Snowshoes, that's still a long hike Still, especially carrying a lot of antlers on your back on the way out too.
Speaker 1:Some jobs are tough.
Speaker 3:Yep, I'd have to look into it and see if these wildlife zones are closed down to all personal activity. So that's no people on motorized vehicles, no, nothing.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:I'd have to look into it to see. If it's closed down to everybody then. I believe it is, but I don't see how they can just close it down to strictly shed hunters, because that's a small scale compared to all the other disturbances they'd see.
Speaker 1:Right, and also I'm pretty sure it's everybody, but I also was reading that in Utah, if you want to go shed hunting before a certain date I do not have that date exactly you need to take a shed hunting ethics course. Really, yes, to talk to you about not disturbing wildlife and stuff, which is a good idea, but you think that the situation there has gotten to the point where they have to give a whole course on the ethics of it. I mean, has it gone too far? Should we not have a price on it? You know, that's kind of the debate right there.
Speaker 3:But the problem with that if you outlaw it, the price is going to go up. People are still going to buy them If they want them. They're going to buy them Right. But they're going to buy them Right. But if they're outlawed, the value of them just skyrocketed.
Speaker 1:Do you think, though, it's ethical to put a price on it?
Speaker 3:I have no issue with that.
Speaker 1:I mean it's okay to find it and all that I mean. Obviously, some people ruin it for everybody.
Speaker 2:It's like anything yeah.
Speaker 1:That's a lot of it. Yeah, I don't think it's wrong going shed hunting at all If you get to the point where you're disturbing wildlife, things like that, when they need to not be disturbed. You know late winter and all that when their energy reservoirs and all that are down, you know that's kind of getting into an issue there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a wormhole. You can go down a lot because you say okay, then you're not allowed to go snowmobiling in the mountains because you're disturbing the wildlife back there. Then you're not allowed to go biking because you're disturbing wildlife.
Speaker 1:Or hiking it's certain times of year. It's certain times of year though, yeah, you know. Yeah well, maybe certain times of year you should stay the hell out of certain areas, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And also I should note that it is illegal to take any antlers from national wildlife parks. Yes, that's any time of year, yeah, so just saying that I guess people have been caught in there too and fined and again, apparently their argument was the risk was worth the reward, had they not gotten caught. But I guess it is a growing. It is a growing, apparently, occupation, especially in the US, which is great for people to make some extra money.
Speaker 2:Well, it gets people out of the house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'll tell you one thing I'm really against. So you hear some people setting up the antler traps. They'll have you know what chicken wire and stuff strung out Highly illegal. Yeah, I'm really against that.
Speaker 3:The animals lose, and when they lose it, leave them alone.
Speaker 1:You know, leave them alone.
Speaker 3:You know because you always see the pictures. One deer that's caught up and those antlers weren't ready to pop off and they get caught in the trap yeah, they get caught in the trap and they're stuck there too and they die.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's 100%. Should not be doing that. That is really unethical. Let them naturally drop yes, yeah, no, that's true.
Speaker 3:I agree, because it's hard. You couldn't. They're very illegal. But you can't put traps out because every deer is different yeah because it all runs off their testosterone when they drop some drop deer, drop their antlers in the middle of December it runs off their testosterone their body.
Speaker 1:Somehow it's a good thing you don't grow antlers like you'd never have any their body somehow knows that they no longer need them for breeding purposes.
Speaker 3:So they're like well, we're in survival mode because of winter and they drop them. But there's some deer that you see middle February that still has both antlers.
Speaker 1:Is there something wrong with them? I don't know enough about that to comment on it. You know more than I do Lane on that.
Speaker 2:The older deer tend to hang on to them longer I've seen the older deer drop earlier oh really now what?
Speaker 3:the bit that I don't know if that's just they. They've experienced it for years and years and they just their body just knows they just know, they just they're done yeah, and or it's just the, not just the actual weight of the antlers, because I've seen the bigger deer on camera through the winter that they're the first ones to drop.
Speaker 1:Really yeah.
Speaker 2:But, like you said, they're older, they know when it's I'll tell you what freaking Google says there, boys. Let's hear it.
Speaker 1:As daylight lengthens. As daylight lengthens, testosterone also begins to drop, which is the ultimate trigger for antler shedding. It's the exact opposite process of how deer antlers harden in late summer. Region and timing of the rut are also factors. In the north, a defined rut means a shorter breeding window, so a drop in testosterone after the rut causes weakness in the connection tissue and the antlers fall off. Antlers drop annually in late winter, typically January through March. The dropped antlers are called sheds. We know that and the process does not hurt the buck. No or bull, yep or bull?
Speaker 3:yep. The earliest I've ever had a deer on camera drop an antler was two years ago and it was December 15th okay, yep but I've had deer on camera almost till March.
Speaker 1:I always wondered if mineral would affect that too, but it didn't say anything about that. You think maybe, but I guess not. I watched a documentary one time on that too, but it didn't say anything about that?
Speaker 2:You think maybe, but I guess not. I watched a documentary one time on I think it was Netflix or something that talked a lot about their antlers.
Speaker 1:What was that?
Speaker 2:It was on Prime.
Speaker 1:That's not Netflix, then?
Speaker 2:Well, whatever Prime Netflix, it was on TV.
Speaker 1:Different.
Speaker 3:Life of a Whitetail or something, the Secret Life of a Whitetail or something, really the Secret Life of a Whitetail or something, and it talked a lot about their antlers, like when they start growing and when they lose them and how they change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was pretty interesting really.
Speaker 1:I can't believe they have anything like that on there, because that kind of sounds a little hunting-ly.
Speaker 3:But it wasn't anything to do with hunting. Hunting-ly. But it wasn't anything to do with hunting, it was strictly the deer.
Speaker 2:It was just basically the deer and how their antlers.
Speaker 1:That's very cool.
Speaker 2:I liked it.
Speaker 1:So you learned that. Is there anything else you remember that you learned from it?
Speaker 2:No, it's been a while Since I watched it.
Speaker 1:Alright, yeah, that's pretty cool. Check that out, guys, this has been a great hunting. Topics discussion, not debate, because we can all agree. I'm glad you guys both came on and if you listeners maybe agree with this. Maybe you think we're complete idiots, regardless of what we're talking about. But you know, shoot us a message. Maybe you have a topic to bring up. Maybe you'd like to call in Let.